I've been trying pigmented stains on a pine floor and they suck. I've
sealed the pine and even tried gel stain, but they look terrible so
far.
I've read about using dyes instead of pigmented oil stains. Where do
you buy this in the US (Texas)? Colron/Ronseal is a UK brand and I
didn't see a dealer list on their site. All the hardware stores here
carry is minwax or olympic, two versions of the same product.
I'm trying to get an orangish-yellow color, not turn the pine into
something it's not. I just didn't want the unfinished look on the
floors. I know pine darkens with age, but I don't think I'll enjoy
looking at unfinished pine until it turns the right shade.
jo_jo wrote:
> I've been trying pigmented stains on a pine floor and they suck. I've
> sealed the pine and even tried gel stain, but they look terrible so
> far.
>
> I've read about using dyes instead of pigmented oil stains. Where do
> you buy this in the US (Texas)? Colron/Ronseal is a UK brand and I
> didn't see a dealer list on their site. All the hardware stores here
> carry is minwax or olympic, two versions of the same product.
>
> I'm trying to get an orangish-yellow color, not turn the pine into
> something it's not. I just didn't want the unfinished look on the
> floors. I know pine darkens with age, but I don't think I'll enjoy
> looking at unfinished pine until it turns the right shade.
Try Jeff Jewitt's http://www.homesteadfinishing.com. He sells both
powder and pre-mixed dyes under his TransTint and TransFast brands.
Good stuff.
No affiliation.
"jo_jo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've been trying pigmented stains on a pine floor and they suck. I've
> sealed the pine and even tried gel stain, but they look terrible so
> far.
>
> I've read about using dyes instead of pigmented oil stains. Where do
> you buy this in the US (Texas)? Colron/Ronseal is a UK brand and I
> didn't see a dealer list on their site. All the hardware stores here
> carry is minwax or olympic, two versions of the same product.
>
> I'm trying to get an orangish-yellow color, not turn the pine into
> something it's not. I just didn't want the unfinished look on the
> floors. I know pine darkens with age, but I don't think I'll enjoy
> looking at unfinished pine until it turns the right shade.
>
Shellac first. Then, if you want, polyurethane over it.
Dave
Teamcasa wrote:
> "jo_jo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I've been trying pigmented stains on a pine floor and they suck. I've
> > sealed the pine and even tried gel stain, but they look terrible so
> > far.
> >
> > I've read about using dyes instead of pigmented oil stains. Where do
> > you buy this in the US (Texas)? Colron/Ronseal is a UK brand and I
> > didn't see a dealer list on their site. All the hardware stores here
> > carry is minwax or olympic, two versions of the same product.
> >
> > I'm trying to get an orangish-yellow color, not turn the pine into
> > something it's not. I just didn't want the unfinished look on the
> > floors. I know pine darkens with age, but I don't think I'll enjoy
> > looking at unfinished pine until it turns the right shade.
> >
> Shellac first. Then, if you want, polyurethane over it.
> Dave
I tried shellac, and got close to the color I wanted, but it built too
thick of a finish. I cut the shellac to about a 1 lb cut, and applied
multiple thin coats, but either didn't get the depth of color or the
finish was too thick and didn't have that hand-rubbed look - it looked
more like a gym floor.
jo_jo wrote:
> I've been trying pigmented stains on a pine floor and they suck. I've
> sealed the pine and even tried gel stain, but they look terrible so
> far.
>
> I've read about using dyes instead of pigmented oil stains. Where do
> you buy this in the US (Texas)? Colron/Ronseal is a UK brand and I
> didn't see a dealer list on their site. All the hardware stores here
> carry is minwax or olympic, two versions of the same product.
>
> I'm trying to get an orangish-yellow color, not turn the pine into
> something it's not. I just didn't want the unfinished look on the
> floors. I know pine darkens with age, but I don't think I'll enjoy
> looking at unfinished pine until it turns the right shade.
Check this out:
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=847-347
i use these dyes all the time. No offense to the Jewitt fans here, but
I don't like dyes that fade, and he makes NO bones about how his fade
when exposed to harsh light or natural light. He is completely up
front about it. I don't want anything on the floor that would be
damage from light coming in a window or screen door.
I like the Solar Lux dyes a lot, and they work great my finishing. You
can make different woods look like anything you want. I cut these dyes
by 75%, one part dye, three parts lacqer thinner. Mix well, and shoot
out of my smallest tip ( 1mm ) and coat the area. Thinned like it is,
it is easy to touch up any high or low spots, and it be darkened easily
with just another coat. I apply it going in one direction, then go
back over it in a 90 degree direction to the original application.
I put this on raw wood, and it never streaks or has highlights or
holidays unless there is applicator error. To top it, I have had great
success with conversion lacquer, regular lacquer, and polyurethane.
To test this out, it is also available in your local WoodCraft.
Where in TX are you?
Robert
[email protected] wrote:
> jo_jo wrote:
> > I've been trying pigmented stains on a pine floor and they suck. I've
> > sealed the pine and even tried gel stain, but they look terrible so
> > far.
> >
> > I've read about using dyes instead of pigmented oil stains. Where do
> > you buy this in the US (Texas)? Colron/Ronseal is a UK brand and I
> > didn't see a dealer list on their site. All the hardware stores here
> > carry is minwax or olympic, two versions of the same product.
> >
> > I'm trying to get an orangish-yellow color, not turn the pine into
> > something it's not. I just didn't want the unfinished look on the
> > floors. I know pine darkens with age, but I don't think I'll enjoy
> > looking at unfinished pine until it turns the right shade.
>
> Check this out:
>
> http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=847-347
>
> i use these dyes all the time. No offense to the Jewitt fans here, but
> I don't like dyes that fade, and he makes NO bones about how his fade
> when exposed to harsh light or natural light. He is completely up
> front about it. I don't want anything on the floor that would be
> damage from light coming in a window or screen door.
>
> I like the Solar Lux dyes a lot, and they work great my finishing. You
> can make different woods look like anything you want. I cut these dyes
> by 75%, one part dye, three parts lacqer thinner. Mix well, and shoot
> out of my smallest tip ( 1mm ) and coat the area. Thinned like it is,
> it is easy to touch up any high or low spots, and it be darkened easily
> with just another coat. I apply it going in one direction, then go
> back over it in a 90 degree direction to the original application.
>
> I put this on raw wood, and it never streaks or has highlights or
> holidays unless there is applicator error. To top it, I have had great
> success with conversion lacquer, regular lacquer, and polyurethane.
>
> To test this out, it is also available in your local WoodCraft.
>
> Where in TX are you?
>
> Robert
I am in Waco, Texas, which is pretty central to Dallas and Austin. I'm
always up for a road trip - in fact, I wanted to get some waterlox for
the top coat and drove to Cameron to a hardware store that was supposed
to be a Waterlox dealer per the Waterlox web site. They had no clue
what Waterlox was.
Anyways, I think I'd like to dye the floor and will experiment with
sealing the wood before the dye, I suppose, then finishing the floor
with waterlox as I'm a little on the fence about poly. I'm also
considering handscraping the floor if I can find a scrub plane. But I
may just buy a stanley plane and have a local reshape the blade.
Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
Patriarch wrote:
> "jo_jo" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1153839470.887002.116230@
> 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> <snip>
> > Anyways, I think I'd like to dye the floor and will experiment with
> > sealing the wood before the dye, I suppose, then finishing the floor
> > with waterlox as I'm a little on the fence about poly. I'm also
> > considering handscraping the floor if I can find a scrub plane. But I
> > may just buy a stanley plane and have a local reshape the blade.
> >
>
> Why would you try to scrape a floor with a scrub plane? Wrong tool.
>
> Look for a cabinet scraper or a scraping plane, if that's what you want to
> do. Scrubs are for aggressive stock removal, before you use two other
> planes to clean up the mess. Not for floors,IMO.
>
> Best wishes with your project!
>
> Patriarch
Again, thanks for the insight. I'll look into a cabinet scraper or
scraping plane, but it was suggested that a scrub plane be used. I've
done wood working for about 4 years now, but all by power tools, so I'm
a little bit ignorant as far as planes and scrapers go. Sharpening a
scraper seems like it is a little bit rough, sort of a voodoo magic
art, whereas I do have the setup to sharpen a plane blade. Again, I
really appreciate the time you've taken to share your insight!
jo_jo wrote:
>
> I am in Waco, Texas, which is pretty central to Dallas and Austin. I'm
> always up for a road trip - in fact, I wanted to get some waterlox for
> the top coat and drove to Cameron to a hardware store that was supposed
> to be a Waterlox dealer per the Waterlox web site. They had no clue
> what Waterlox was.
>
> Anyways, I think I'd like to dye the floor and will experiment with
> sealing the wood before the dye,
SNIP
I personally would not use Waterlox on a floor. Waterlox has its
strong points, but I don't know that abrasion resistance for flooring
is one. Also, Waterlox has a strong yellow amber tint that comes
through on soem woods. That would certainly skew the colors that you
work up with your staining and dying test panels.
You could go to something like Sherwin Williams commercial (I have met
a couple of the guys from Dallas at trade shows and they are great) or
Benjamin Moore to ask for some ideas on finishing. Lots of other
smaller stores can help you pick a floor finish that is made
specifically with floor abrasion and occasional water duty in mind.
Before I picked a finish, I would determine if I was spraying, or
brushing. With wiping (Waterlox) I think you would have to put a lot
of coats on to get a good build. How big is the surface are you
finishing?
Robert
[email protected] wrote:
> jo_jo wrote:
> >
> > I am in Waco, Texas, which is pretty central to Dallas and Austin. I'm
> > always up for a road trip - in fact, I wanted to get some waterlox for
> > the top coat and drove to Cameron to a hardware store that was supposed
> > to be a Waterlox dealer per the Waterlox web site. They had no clue
> > what Waterlox was.
> >
> > Anyways, I think I'd like to dye the floor and will experiment with
> > sealing the wood before the dye,
>
> SNIP
>
> I personally would not use Waterlox on a floor. Waterlox has its
> strong points, but I don't know that abrasion resistance for flooring
> is one. Also, Waterlox has a strong yellow amber tint that comes
> through on soem woods. That would certainly skew the colors that you
> work up with your staining and dying test panels.
>
> You could go to something like Sherwin Williams commercial (I have met
> a couple of the guys from Dallas at trade shows and they are great) or
> Benjamin Moore to ask for some ideas on finishing. Lots of other
> smaller stores can help you pick a floor finish that is made
> specifically with floor abrasion and occasional water duty in mind.
>
> Before I picked a finish, I would determine if I was spraying, or
> brushing. With wiping (Waterlox) I think you would have to put a lot
> of coats on to get a good build. How big is the surface are you
> finishing?
>
> Robert
Hey Robert - thanks for the advice. The area I'm finishing is 20x22,
or 440 square feet. The floor is 5" (actual dimension) tongue and
groove southern yellow pine. I love the character it has, but don't
want to finish it "natural". I do like the slightly rustic, or early
american look, but am not terribly fond of the "country" look.
Anyways, I have tried minwax and olympic stains until I have probably
amassed a collection of stains that would put Home Depot out of
business. I've tried water based, gel, and oil stains. I've tested
tinted danish oil. I've tried shellac. I've tried linseed and tongue
oil, and none of these produces the color I want consistently. I've
tried sealing the wood, then staining. None of this produces the warm
tones that I've seen at some of the online sites (you know, the guys
who actually know what the heck they're doing!)
As always, all testing done on leftover southern yellow pine scraps
that I've sanded to 120 grit. I realize that pine, esp. new pine, does
NOT stain well, but I had no idea it was THIS horrible. The good news
is, I was advised to let the floor settle in and dry out or acclimate
for about 6 weeks. I had the wood in the garage for two weeks prior to
installation, so the moisture content could still be a little high and
this could be causing trouble. So, I'm basically down to about 4 weeks
to finding a staining and finishing solution (and a scraper, scraper
plane, scrub plane, in case I want to try to hand scrape the wood).
Basically, leblanc flooring's web site has a graphic on it's home page
that is the ideal color I am shooting for. It's a very warm
yellow-orange color. I tried shellac, but got more of a honey color.
Thus the post related to finding dyes. I thought I would give dyes a
shot where pigmented stains may have failed. I'd like to end up with a
warm color and a hand-rubbed appearance.
I am patient. I work hard. If I have to hand rub the thing 10 times,
I will. I don't mind using some sort of wax finish, either, although I
know it will require much more maintenance. Nor am I opposed to poly,
but don't imagine it will give a "hand rubbed" finish.
Again, I appreciate the advise you guys are giving me.
Pat Barber wrote:
> This is just a guess, but I suspect those folks are
> using some sort of two part mixture or similar exotic
> mixture not generally available.
>
> It probably has a UV cured finish that can not be
> duplicated in a DIY situation.
>
> That flooring may have a dozen coats or more of a
> colored mixture that you have very little hope of
> being able to produce.
>
>
> jo_jo wrote:
>
> > http://www.authenticpinefloors.com/photo_categories.php?categoryid=5
> >
> > This is another site that has some colors I like. The color is much
> > more even than what I've managed to do.
> >
That's what I'm thinking as well. I did find one dark color that went
on smoothly and consistently with two coats. I may just go that
route...
J T wrote:
> Mon, Jul 24, 2006, 11:26am (EDT-3) [email protected] (jo_jo) doth
> query:
> <snip> I've read about using dyes instead of pigmented oil stains.
> <snip>
> I'm trying to get an orangish-yellow color <snip>
>
> Koolaid does a very good job staining unfinished wood. Ask anyone
> with kids.
>
>
>
> JOAT
> Politician \Pol`i*ti"cian\, n. Latin for career criminal
Actually, I finally found a stain - a custom orange from olympic mixed
with red mahogany from minwax (both oil based) gave me a nice warm
cinammon color, which NEITHER company offers in their premixed or
custom colors. I sanded some scrap boards and then used quick-dry
sanding sealer to feed the thirsty yellow pine, then when that was dry
I rubbed on some of the mixed stain and it went on extremely even (for
pine). Now, if I can just figure out what to finish the boards with
that will give a hand-rubbed look. Since the oil based stain takes so
long to dry, oil based poly rubbed on top of the stain actually removed
and lightened some of the stain (which was sitting on top of the
sanding sealer, I guess). Perhaps it all needs longer drying times.
jo_jo wrote:
> I tried shellac, and got close to the color I wanted, but it built to=
o
> thick of a finish.=A0=A0I=A0cut=A0the=A0shellac=A0to=A0about=A0a=A01=A0=
lb=A0cut,=A0and=A0applied
> multiple thin coats, but either didn't get the depth of color or the
> finish was too thick and didn't have that hand-rubbed look - it looke=
d
> more like a gym floor.
Try a little dye IN the shellac.
--=20
It's turtles, all the way down
Mon, Jul 24, 2006, 11:26am (EDT-3) [email protected] (jo_jo) doth
query:
<snip> I've read about using dyes instead of pigmented oil stains.
<snip>
I'm trying to get an orangish-yellow color <snip>
Koolaid does a very good job staining unfinished wood. Ask anyone
with kids.
JOAT
Politician \Pol`i*ti"cian\, n. Latin for career criminal
jo_jo wrote:
> Patriarch wrote:
>> "jo_jo" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1153839470.887002.116230@
>> 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> Anyways, I think I'd like to dye the floor and will experiment with
>>> sealing the wood before the dye, I suppose, then finishing the floor
>>> with waterlox as I'm a little on the fence about poly. I'm also
>>> considering handscraping the floor if I can find a scrub plane. But I
>>> may just buy a stanley plane and have a local reshape the blade.
>>>
>> Why would you try to scrape a floor with a scrub plane? Wrong tool.
>>
>> Look for a cabinet scraper or a scraping plane, if that's what you want to
>> do. Scrubs are for aggressive stock removal, before you use two other
>> planes to clean up the mess. Not for floors,IMO.
>>
>> Best wishes with your project!
>>
>> Patriarch
>
>
> Again, thanks for the insight. I'll look into a cabinet scraper or
> scraping plane, but it was suggested that a scrub plane be used. I've
> done wood working for about 4 years now, but all by power tools, so I'm
> a little bit ignorant as far as planes and scrapers go. Sharpening a
> scraper seems like it is a little bit rough, sort of a voodoo magic
> art, whereas I do have the setup to sharpen a plane blade. Again, I
> really appreciate the time you've taken to share your insight!
>
It's actually the reverse. Sharpening a scraper is a cinch compared to
sharpening a plane blade.
With a scraper, all you're doing is jointing the edge, and then peeling
over a lip from that edge. All four sides of a cabinet scraper can be
done in about ten minutes, including the jointing.
I'm not about to say that sharpening a plane blade is hard, but it's
more involved, and it's more time consuming. For me, that is. I expect
there are guys in here that will dispute that, but I'm talking from a
newbie's standpoint.
One of the things I love about scrapers is their simplicity. A hunk of
steel, edged rather easily and voila, you have a system for making wood
smooth. It's almost magic.
Tanus
--
This is not really a sig.
This is just a guess, but I suspect those folks are
using some sort of two part mixture or similar exotic
mixture not generally available.
It probably has a UV cured finish that can not be
duplicated in a DIY situation.
That flooring may have a dozen coats or more of a
colored mixture that you have very little hope of
being able to produce.
jo_jo wrote:
> http://www.authenticpinefloors.com/photo_categories.php?categoryid=5
>
> This is another site that has some colors I like. The color is much
> more even than what I've managed to do.
>
"jo_jo" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1153839470.887002.116230@
75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
<snip>
> Anyways, I think I'd like to dye the floor and will experiment with
> sealing the wood before the dye, I suppose, then finishing the floor
> with waterlox as I'm a little on the fence about poly. I'm also
> considering handscraping the floor if I can find a scrub plane. But I
> may just buy a stanley plane and have a local reshape the blade.
>
Why would you try to scrape a floor with a scrub plane? Wrong tool.
Look for a cabinet scraper or a scraping plane, if that's what you want to
do. Scrubs are for aggressive stock removal, before you use two other
planes to clean up the mess. Not for floors,IMO.
Best wishes with your project!
Patriarch
"jo_jo" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
>>
>> Why would you try to scrape a floor with a scrub plane? Wrong tool.
>>
>> Look for a cabinet scraper or a scraping plane, if that's what you
>> want to do. Scrubs are for aggressive stock removal, before you use
>> two other planes to clean up the mess. Not for floors,IMO.
>>
>> Best wishes with your project!
>>
>> Patriarch
>
>
> Again, thanks for the insight. I'll look into a cabinet scraper or
> scraping plane, but it was suggested that a scrub plane be used. I've
> done wood working for about 4 years now, but all by power tools, so
> I'm a little bit ignorant as far as planes and scrapers go.
> Sharpening a scraper seems like it is a little bit rough, sort of a
> voodoo magic art, whereas I do have the setup to sharpen a plane
> blade. Again, I really appreciate the time you've taken to share your
> insight!
>
>
Sharpening a scraper is very similar to sharpening a scrub plane. If you
add a $5 file to the mix, you already have the tools.
Google search on the many threads on scraper sharpening. Or check with
finewoodworking.com, who used to have a great little video piece available
on the topic.
Patriarch