I recently did a posting about Poplar. I will be making 8 frame and
panel doors using poplar for stiles and rails and some 1/4" panels. Each
door will have 3 rails: 4" top and middle and 6" at the bottom. The
stiles will be 3". Total door width 14" I made a prototype which was
good for evaluation but I need to make doors that are more sturdy. In
particular I want to make 1" tenons on each end of the three rails and a
matching mortise in the stiles. 8 doors. 6 mortise and tenon joints per
door. 48 joints.
I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig but
the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might be able
to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining technique isn't
too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of course use my drill
press and a chisel which I have done before but not on 48 mortise and
tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone has used a mortising
attachment for a drill press before I choose one of the two options
mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different idea I can use for a
sturdy joint.
Your advice is appreciated as always.
TIA.
Dick Snyder
On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 08:08:46 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 4/20/2015 11:22 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:12:28 -0400
>> woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a dedicated mortising machine. I would not recommend mortising
>>> with a drill press as the handle is too short. But if you have an old
>>> drill press with a long arm, then by all means do it. If you have a
>>> short 3 handle drill press don't do it.
>>
>> is this because you can't do the entire mortise in one fluid move
>>
>> or
>>
>> some other reason
>>
>> i drill deep holes and find it real annoying to have to grab the next
>> handle back
>>
>> now this has me wondering if i could remove a handle and make one
>> handle longer
>>
>> not sure if there are other limitations with the drill press
>> i.e. a longer handle might not turn free without hitting something
>
>With a drill press there is typically some disassemble involved and it
>is an adaptation. Then you can't use the DP until you remove the
>mortising attachment. I think this was a popular option decades ago
>when bench top mortisers were not common for home woodworkers.
I presume these quaint tools came before the Domino, eh Leon?
krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 08:08:46 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/20/2015 11:22 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:12:28 -0400
>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a dedicated mortising machine. I would not recommend mortising
>>>> with a drill press as the handle is too short. But if you have an old
>>>> drill press with a long arm, then by all means do it. If you have a
>>>> short 3 handle drill press don't do it.
>>>
>>> is this because you can't do the entire mortise in one fluid move
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> some other reason
>>>
>>> i drill deep holes and find it real annoying to have to grab the next
>>> handle back
>>>
>>> now this has me wondering if i could remove a handle and make one
>>> handle longer
>>>
>>> not sure if there are other limitations with the drill press
>>> i.e. a longer handle might not turn free without hitting something
>>
>> With a drill press there is typically some disassemble involved and it
>> is an adaptation. Then you can't use the DP until you remove the
>> mortising attachment. I think this was a popular option decades ago
>> when bench top mortisers were not common for home woodworkers.
>
> I presume these quaint tools came before the Domino, eh Leon?
Sorta :-). I recall my shop class room having two DP's, one had a mortiser
attachment with foot pedal assist. All of the mortiser pieces were a
different color from the rest of the DP. That was 1969.
Somewhere in the 90's I recall $200 bench top mortisers hit my radar and I
bought a Delta. That worked but I have not used it since getting the
Domino when they were introduced, some time around 2007-8
I know of no tool that cuts mortises as quickly and easily as the Domino.
On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 8:59:47 PM UTC-5, southborough_man wrote:
> I recently did a posting about Poplar. I will be making 8 frame and
> panel doors using poplar for stiles and rails and some 1/4" panels. Each
> door will have 3 rails: 4" top and middle and 6" at the bottom. The
> stiles will be 3". Total door width 14" I made a prototype which was
> good for evaluation but I need to make doors that are more sturdy. In
> particular I want to make 1" tenons on each end of the three rails and a
> matching mortise in the stiles. 8 doors. 6 mortise and tenon joints per
> door. 48 joints.
>
> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig but
> the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might be able
> to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining technique isn't
> too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of course use my drill
> press and a chisel which I have done before but not on 48 mortise and
> tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone has used a mortising
> attachment for a drill press before I choose one of the two options
> mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different idea I can use for a
> sturdy joint.
>
> Your advice is appreciated as always.
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
In addition to the information in the other replies, there is this. IF you have a mortising attachment for your drill press, and it is not EXACTLY fitted to the spindle, it can come lose and start spinning. That gets really interesting, extremely fast.
BTW, don't ask me how I know. ;-)
Ergo, a dedicated mortiser is the only way to go. Or you could cut them by hand, which is the way I cut most of mine.
Deb
On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 9:59:47 PM UTC-4, southborough_man wrote:
> I recently did a posting about Poplar. I will be making 8 frame and
> panel doors using poplar for stiles and rails and some 1/4" panels. Each
> door will have 3 rails: 4" top and middle and 6" at the bottom. The
> stiles will be 3". Total door width 14" I made a prototype which was
> good for evaluation but I need to make doors that are more sturdy. In
> particular I want to make 1" tenons on each end of the three rails and a
> matching mortise in the stiles. 8 doors. 6 mortise and tenon joints per
> door. 48 joints.
>
> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig but
> the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might be able
> to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining technique isn't
> too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of course use my drill
> press and a chisel which I have done before but not on 48 mortise and
> tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone has used a mortising
> attachment for a drill press before I choose one of the two options
> mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different idea I can use for a
> sturdy joint.
>
> Your advice is appreciated as always.
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
If you have a router table you should get a rail and stile router bit set.
"Dick Snyder" wrote:
>I recently did a posting about Poplar. I will be making 8 frame and
>panel doors using poplar for stiles and rails and some 1/4" panels.
>Each door will have 3 rails: 4" top and middle and 6" at the bottom.
>The stiles will be 3". Total door width 14" I made a prototype which
>was good for evaluation but I need to make doors that are more
>sturdy. In particular I want to make 1" tenons on each end of the
>three rails and a matching mortise in the stiles. 8 doors. 6 mortise
>and tenon joints per door. 48 joints.
>
> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig
> but the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might
> be able to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining
> technique isn't too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of
> course use my drill press and a chisel which I have done before but
> not on 48 mortise and tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone
> has used a mortising attachment for a drill press before I choose
> one of the two options mentioned above. Maybe someone has a
> different idea I can use for a sturdy joint.
>
> Your advice is appreciated as always.
---------------------------------------------------------------
My personal prejudices:
1) Drill Press & Attachment
May a constipated camel decorate your front lawn.
IMHO, strictly a loser.
2) Plunge router & Jig.
My weapon of choice.
You can knock out 40-50 mortises in a short amount of time.
I leave the ends of the mortise round and knock off the corners
of the tenon with a flat bastard file.
3) Dedicated bench top mortising machine.
You have enough work to justify the expense of a dedicated tool.
HTH
Lew
" If you have a short 3 handle drill press don't do it."
When I built my woodworking drill press table for my Rigid floor-mounted press, I found the Long Arms interfered with the table!
As a result, I discovered how simple it was to re-fit the press with shorter arms.
Thus, I would not think a short-arm drill press was necessarily an obstacle to employing a mortising attachment - maybe all you need do is retro-fit a longer arm or two.
A now this has me wondering if i could remove a handle and make one
> handle longer
>
B not sure if there are other limitations with the drill press
> i.e. a longer handle might not turn free without hitting something
A - "there you go"
B - "Simple enough to check, right?"
I knew a fellow who connected a (spring-loaded) foot-pedal affair to control the quill movement.
But, how much work are you willing to do to save some time and effort with the mortices for this project?.
For the $$ and intended use, it might be worth trying out the HFT dedicated mortising attachment - if you can complete the work in thirty days . . .
If you already have the Mortising Attachment - do use it, do make do.
On 4/21/2015 6:43 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>
>>
>> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig
>> but the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might
>> be able to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining
>> technique isn't too ugly (the doors will be painted).
>
> Since you are going to paint the doors, the plugs should work very well for
> you. The amount of sanding won't be as much as it seems you are
> anticipating. If the fit is not perfect, you can use a small amount of
> filler or fine sawdust and sand it down flush. The pocket screws make a
> very strong joint and they are a fast way to build.
>
>> I could of
>> course use my drill press and a chisel which I have done before but
>> not on 48 mortise and tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone
>> has used a mortising attachment for a drill press before I choose one
>> of the two options mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different
>> idea I can use for a sturdy joint.
>
> I have a mortising set for my drill press, and I have mixed emotions about
> it. It does work but I always found there was a lot of hand clean up of the
> mortise afterwards. That was just my experience.
>
>
I guess I can make a couple of holes and put in the plugs to see how
much sanding is required. I will give that a shot in addition to
checking out Lew's suggestion for a plunge router and jig
dadiOH wrote:
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>> I recently did a posting about Poplar. I will be making 8 frame and
>> panel doors using poplar for stiles and rails and some 1/4" panels.
>> Each door will have 3 rails: 4" top and middle and 6" at the bottom.
>> The stiles will be 3". Total door width 14" I made a prototype which
>> was good for evaluation but I need to make doors that are more
>> sturdy. In particular I want to make 1" tenons on each end of the
>> three rails and a matching mortise in the stiles. 8 doors. 6 mortise
>> and tenon joints per door. 48 joints.
>>
>> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig
>> but the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might
>> be able to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining
>> technique isn't too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of
>> course use my drill press and a chisel which I have done before but
>> not on 48 mortise and tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone
>> has used a mortising attachment for a drill press before I choose one
>> of the two options mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different
>> idea I can use for a sturdy joint.
>>
>> Your advice is appreciated as always.
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Dick Snyder
>
> Comments
> 1. If you kreg it, forget plugs, use filler.
> 2. Routers can make mortices
> 3. Half laps are strong
> 4. Dowels work too. Too much precision? Glue into rails, glue rails into
> sloppy big holes in stiles using filled epoxy.
>
I make my own plugs. Get a dowel that fits and cut it into 6"
lengths, put some glue on the DOWEL and tap it into the hole. Later
saw it off with a flush-cut saw and use the other end. Cut the
leftover in half with a scroll saw and use the two halves. If you put
the glue in the hole it will gum up the screw and make it difficult to
remove if you ever need to do so. (As I just had to do to replace a
hand rail.)
--
G W Ross
Imagination is more important than
knowledge - Einstein
On 4/20/2015 9:59 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> I recently did a posting about Poplar. I will be making 8 frame and
> panel doors using poplar for stiles and rails and some 1/4" panels. Each
> door will have 3 rails: 4" top and middle and 6" at the bottom. The
> stiles will be 3". Total door width 14" I made a prototype which was
> good for evaluation but I need to make doors that are more sturdy. In
> particular I want to make 1" tenons on each end of the three rails and a
> matching mortise in the stiles. 8 doors. 6 mortise and tenon joints per
> door. 48 joints.
>
> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig but
> the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might be able
> to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining technique isn't
> too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of course use my drill
> press and a chisel which I have done before but not on 48 mortise and
> tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone has used a mortising
> attachment for a drill press before I choose one of the two options
> mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different idea I can use for a
> sturdy joint.
>
> Your advice is appreciated as always.
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
I have a dedicated mortising machine. I would not recommend mortising
with a drill press as the handle is too short. But if you have an old
drill press with a long arm, then by all means do it. If you have a
short 3 handle drill press don't do it.
My 2 cents.
--
Jeff
On 4/20/2015 11:22 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:12:28 -0400
> woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I have a dedicated mortising machine. I would not recommend mortising
>> with a drill press as the handle is too short. But if you have an old
>> drill press with a long arm, then by all means do it. If you have a
>> short 3 handle drill press don't do it.
>
> is this because you can't do the entire mortise in one fluid move
>
> or
>
> some other reason
>
> i drill deep holes and find it real annoying to have to grab the next
> handle back
>
> now this has me wondering if i could remove a handle and make one
> handle longer
>
> not sure if there are other limitations with the drill press
> i.e. a longer handle might not turn free without hitting something
With a drill press there is typically some disassemble involved and it
is an adaptation. Then you can't use the DP until you remove the
mortising attachment. I think this was a popular option decades ago
when bench top mortisers were not common for home woodworkers.
Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig
> but the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might be
> able to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining technique
> isn't too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of course use my
> drill press and a chisel which I have done before but not on 48
> mortise and tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone has used a
> mortising attachment for a drill press before I choose one of the two
> options mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different idea I can use
> for a sturdy joint.
Well, just to add to what everyone else has said, I think it
depends on what else you expect to do in woodworking. If you
intend it to be a continuing hobby, this project probably
justifies buying a dedicated mortise machine, which you will
likely use fairly often.
Apropos of the drill press attachment, I'd be sceptical. The
weak point of mortising machines is the holddown (which stops
the workpiece lifting when you retract the chisel), from what
I've seen these are rudimentary or non-existant on drill press
attachments. Also, as woodchucker mentioned, it takes a fair
bit of force to push the chisel into the wood, and the handle
on a drillpress doesn't give you much leverage for that.
So my suggestion here would be, if you'll do more mortises in
future, buy a benchtop mortising machine. If not, build a
dedicated jig and use the router.
John
On 4/21/2015 12:29 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Dick Snyder" wrote:
>
>> I recently did a posting about Poplar. I will be making 8 frame and
>> panel doors using poplar for stiles and rails and some 1/4" panels.
>> Each door will have 3 rails: 4" top and middle and 6" at the bottom.
>> The stiles will be 3". Total door width 14" I made a prototype which
>> was good for evaluation but I need to make doors that are more
>> sturdy. In particular I want to make 1" tenons on each end of the
>> three rails and a matching mortise in the stiles. 8 doors. 6 mortise
>> and tenon joints per door. 48 joints.
>>
>> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig
>> but the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might
>> be able to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining
>> technique isn't too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of
>> course use my drill press and a chisel which I have done before but
>> not on 48 mortise and tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone
>> has used a mortising attachment for a drill press before I choose
>> one of the two options mentioned above. Maybe someone has a
>> different idea I can use for a sturdy joint.
>>
>> Your advice is appreciated as always.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> My personal prejudices:
>
> 1) Drill Press & Attachment
> May a constipated camel decorate your front lawn.
> IMHO, strictly a loser.
>
> 2) Plunge router & Jig.
> My weapon of choice.
>
> You can knock out 40-50 mortises in a short amount of time.
>
> I leave the ends of the mortise round and knock off the corners
> of the tenon with a flat bastard file.
>
> 3) Dedicated bench top mortising machine.
> You have enough work to justify the expense of a dedicated tool.
>
> HTH
>
> Lew
>
>
The router and jig is something I had not considered yet. Could you give
me some idea what your jig is like or send me a picture?
On 4/21/2015 11:39 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig
>> but the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might be
>> able to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining technique
>> isn't too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of course use my
>> drill press and a chisel which I have done before but not on 48
>> mortise and tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone has used a
>> mortising attachment for a drill press before I choose one of the two
>> options mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different idea I can use
>> for a sturdy joint.
>
> Well, just to add to what everyone else has said, I think it
> depends on what else you expect to do in woodworking. If you
> intend it to be a continuing hobby, this project probably
> justifies buying a dedicated mortise machine, which you will
> likely use fairly often.
>
> Apropos of the drill press attachment, I'd be sceptical. The
> weak point of mortising machines is the holddown (which stops
> the workpiece lifting when you retract the chisel), from what
> I've seen these are rudimentary or non-existant on drill press
> attachments. Also, as woodchucker mentioned, it takes a fair
> bit of force to push the chisel into the wood, and the handle
> on a drillpress doesn't give you much leverage for that.
>
> So my suggestion here would be, if you'll do more mortises in
> future, buy a benchtop mortising machine. If not, build a
> dedicated jig and use the router.
>
> John
>
Lew posted a nice reference to a jig that would work with a plunge
router. If I don't go with Kreg, I will make that jig which seems pretty
straightforward. Thanks.
On 4/21/2015 11:40 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/cvnku9
>
>
>
>
> "Dick Snyder" wrote:
>
>> The router and jig is something I had not considered yet. Could you
>> give me some idea what your jig is like or send me a picture?
> ------------------------------------------------------
> http://tinyurl.com/cvnku9
>
> Lew
>
>
>
Excellent. Thanks Lew.
On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:01:53 -0400, Dick Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 4/21/2015 12:29 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Dick Snyder" wrote:
>>
>>> I recently did a posting about Poplar. I will be making 8 frame and
>>> panel doors using poplar for stiles and rails and some 1/4" panels.
>>> Each door will have 3 rails: 4" top and middle and 6" at the bottom.
>>> The stiles will be 3". Total door width 14" I made a prototype which
>>> was good for evaluation but I need to make doors that are more
>>> sturdy. In particular I want to make 1" tenons on each end of the
>>> three rails and a matching mortise in the stiles. 8 doors. 6 mortise
>>> and tenon joints per door. 48 joints.
>>>
>>> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig
>>> but the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might
>>> be able to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining
>>> technique isn't too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of
>>> course use my drill press and a chisel which I have done before but
>>> not on 48 mortise and tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone
>>> has used a mortising attachment for a drill press before I choose
>>> one of the two options mentioned above. Maybe someone has a
>>> different idea I can use for a sturdy joint.
>>>
>>> Your advice is appreciated as always.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> My personal prejudices:
>>
>> 1) Drill Press & Attachment
>> May a constipated camel decorate your front lawn.
>> IMHO, strictly a loser.
>>
>> 2) Plunge router & Jig.
>> My weapon of choice.
>>
>> You can knock out 40-50 mortises in a short amount of time.
>>
>> I leave the ends of the mortise round and knock off the corners
>> of the tenon with a flat bastard file.
>>
>> 3) Dedicated bench top mortising machine.
>> You have enough work to justify the expense of a dedicated tool.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>The router and jig is something I had not considered yet. Could you give
>me some idea what your jig is like or send me a picture?
I have a Mortise Pal, though I don't think they're available anymore.
http://www.rockler.com/how-to/mortise-pal-mortising-jig-clamps-easy-plunge-router-table-joint-cutting/
On 4/21/2015 12:22 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:12:28 -0400
> woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I have a dedicated mortising machine. I would not recommend mortising
>> with a drill press as the handle is too short. But if you have an old
>> drill press with a long arm, then by all means do it. If you have a
>> short 3 handle drill press don't do it.
>
> is this because you can't do the entire mortise in one fluid move
>
> or
>
> some other reason
>
> i drill deep holes and find it real annoying to have to grab the next
> handle back
>
> now this has me wondering if i could remove a handle and make one
> handle longer
>
> not sure if there are other limitations with the drill press
> i.e. a longer handle might not turn free without hitting something
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
No it's not because you have to grab a different arm, it's called
leverage. A mortiser or really old drill press, use long arms. So they
have the leverage that a mortiser needs. Plain and simple.
--
Jeff
On 4/21/2015 7:20 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>> I recently did a posting about Poplar. I will be making 8 frame and
>> panel doors using poplar for stiles and rails and some 1/4" panels.
>> Each door will have 3 rails: 4" top and middle and 6" at the bottom.
>> The stiles will be 3". Total door width 14" I made a prototype which
>> was good for evaluation but I need to make doors that are more
>> sturdy. In particular I want to make 1" tenons on each end of the
>> three rails and a matching mortise in the stiles. 8 doors. 6 mortise
>> and tenon joints per door. 48 joints.
>>
>> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig
>> but the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might
>> be able to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining
>> technique isn't too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of
>> course use my drill press and a chisel which I have done before but
>> not on 48 mortise and tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone
>> has used a mortising attachment for a drill press before I choose one
>> of the two options mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different
>> idea I can use for a sturdy joint.
>>
>> Your advice is appreciated as always.
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Dick Snyder
>
> Comments
> 1. If you kreg it, forget plugs, use filler.
> 2. Routers can make mortices
> 3. Half laps are strong
> 4. Dowels work too. Too much precision? Glue into rails, glue rails into
> sloppy big holes in stiles using filled epoxy.
>
Filler is always a bad choice, it shrinks, it's a pain to sand.
Either too hard or too soft.
--
Jeff
On 4/21/2015 11:30 AM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>> "Dick Snyder" wrote:
>>
>>> The router and jig is something I had not considered yet. Could you
>>> give me some idea what your jig is like or send me a picture?
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> http://tinyurl.com/cvnku9
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>>
> Excellent. Thanks Lew.
Here's one I used for making chairs years back, well before I got a
multi-router.
I made it so I could use simple shims for different size stock. Simple,
no moving parts, used in a vice:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopShopmadeMortiseJig?noredirect=1
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:12:28 -0400
woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have a dedicated mortising machine. I would not recommend mortising
> with a drill press as the handle is too short. But if you have an old
> drill press with a long arm, then by all means do it. If you have a
> short 3 handle drill press don't do it.
is this because you can't do the entire mortise in one fluid move
or
some other reason
i drill deep holes and find it real annoying to have to grab the next
handle back
now this has me wondering if i could remove a handle and make one
handle longer
not sure if there are other limitations with the drill press
i.e. a longer handle might not turn free without hitting something
Dick Snyder wrote:
>
> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig
> but the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might
> be able to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining
> technique isn't too ugly (the doors will be painted).
Since you are going to paint the doors, the plugs should work very well for
you. The amount of sanding won't be as much as it seems you are
anticipating. If the fit is not perfect, you can use a small amount of
filler or fine sawdust and sand it down flush. The pocket screws make a
very strong joint and they are a fast way to build.
> I could of
> course use my drill press and a chisel which I have done before but
> not on 48 mortise and tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone
> has used a mortising attachment for a drill press before I choose one
> of the two options mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different
> idea I can use for a sturdy joint.
I have a mortising set for my drill press, and I have mixed emotions about
it. It does work but I always found there was a lot of hand clean up of the
mortise afterwards. That was just my experience.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Dick Snyder wrote:
> I recently did a posting about Poplar. I will be making 8 frame and
> panel doors using poplar for stiles and rails and some 1/4" panels.
> Each door will have 3 rails: 4" top and middle and 6" at the bottom.
> The stiles will be 3". Total door width 14" I made a prototype which
> was good for evaluation but I need to make doors that are more
> sturdy. In particular I want to make 1" tenons on each end of the
> three rails and a matching mortise in the stiles. 8 doors. 6 mortise
> and tenon joints per door. 48 joints.
>
> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig
> but the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might
> be able to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining
> technique isn't too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of
> course use my drill press and a chisel which I have done before but
> not on 48 mortise and tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone
> has used a mortising attachment for a drill press before I choose one
> of the two options mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different
> idea I can use for a sturdy joint.
>
> Your advice is appreciated as always.
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
Comments
1. If you kreg it, forget plugs, use filler.
2. Routers can make mortices
3. Half laps are strong
4. Dowels work too. Too much precision? Glue into rails, glue rails into
sloppy big holes in stiles using filled epoxy.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 17:58:48 -0400
woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
> No it's not because you have to grab a different arm, it's called
> leverage. A mortiser or really old drill press, use long arms. So
> they have the leverage that a mortiser needs. Plain and simple.
makes sense
must require additional force due to the chisel
and I'd think you'd want that chisel to be sharp at all times
Dad had a Delta unit on his double belted Delta. Sorry it went the way
of thief out of my brothers shop. Like I said in/out or down and up a
bit down for more. Can't push it all of the way.
You said the same thing but added a final fine cut or clean out pass.
Big deal - that wasn't the process discussed.
Martin
On 4/22/2015 12:19 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote in news:p8FZw.338244
> [email protected]:
>
>> The drill takes out most of the wood (or should) and you must
>> let it transport it to the surface or you jamb up the Mortise chisels
>> and run the risk of splitting the chisel. So the process is in / out or
>> down and up a bit and down for more. Not to Drive like you are
>> pressing a nail into the wood.
>
> That's not quite right. The first pass usually has to be
> done in several up & down strokes. The remaining passes
> are a single down stoke (assuming you have the chisel
> oriented so the opening faces the previously cut part of
> the mortise, which is how you should have it oriented).
>
> John
>
Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote in news:p8FZw.338244
[email protected]:
> The drill takes out most of the wood (or should) and you must
> let it transport it to the surface or you jamb up the Mortise chisels
> and run the risk of splitting the chisel. So the process is in / out or
> down and up a bit and down for more. Not to Drive like you are
> pressing a nail into the wood.
That's not quite right. The first pass usually has to be
done in several up & down strokes. The remaining passes
are a single down stoke (assuming you have the chisel
oriented so the opening faces the previously cut part of
the mortise, which is how you should have it oriented).
John
Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Dad had a Delta unit on his double belted Delta. Sorry it went the
> way of thief out of my brothers shop. Like I said in/out or down and
> up a bit down for more. Can't push it all of the way.
>
> You said the same thing but added a final fine cut or clean out pass.
> Big deal - that wasn't the process discussed.
No, that's not what I said. I said on a proper mortising
machine, all the cuts except for the very first are done
in a single pass. It's only the first hole (which will
be square) where you have to be concerned about allowing
the shavings to clear. In every succeeding cut, the
shavings fall into the mortise.
Now, possibly it's different on an underpowered and
under-leveraged drill press attachement. But with a
mortising machine, it is "push it all of the way".
John
Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote in news:hkd_w.282787
[email protected]:
> Going to have to explain "in every succeeding cut, the shavings fall
> into the mortise."
It should be clear, but anyway: when you make a mortise,
you make a series of slightly overlapping cuts - if you're
using a 3/8" chisel for a 2" mortise, you'll probably make
6 cuts.
The first cut, the shavings have nowhere to go but up the
chisel. That one you (usually) have to make in several up
and down strokes, to let the shavings clear.
The next cut, slightly overlapping the first, the shavings
will fall into the hole made by the first cut. And so on
down the line, each succeeding cut the shavings fall into
the hole from the prior cuts.
The only way that doesn't happen is if the open side of the
chisel is not facing the prior cuts. In that case, the
shavings again have nowhere to go but up. But if you're
doing it that way, you're doing it wrong.
I mostly work with maple & cherry, incidently...no problem
cutting the mortises in single pulls.
John
Going to have to explain "in every succeeding cut, the shavings fall
into the mortise."
Is this the second hole ? Is this a first ? If the first it is up and
down clearing.
If you are cutting man made material - MDF or such - it might not
matter. When cutting oak and hard maple - one better go slow.
I have seen chisels split by wood jamming into the cavity and using
the drill to compact and stretch.
The drill press had power. Real power. Three pulley, two belts.
The motor was a 3/4 hp and could really run the spindle.
It was for Metal and Wood use. It had a special spindle for This
and another for boring while a normal drill spindle with a 1/2" chuck
that would hold sub 1/16 centered. It was heavy duty Delta - built
in the early 50's. Not like the pot metal ones you see today.
Martin
On 4/23/2015 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Dad had a Delta unit on his double belted Delta. Sorry it went the
>> way of thief out of my brothers shop. Like I said in/out or down and
>> up a bit down for more. Can't push it all of the way.
>>
>> You said the same thing but added a final fine cut or clean out pass.
>> Big deal - that wasn't the process discussed.
>
> No, that's not what I said. I said on a proper mortising
> machine, all the cuts except for the very first are done
> in a single pass. It's only the first hole (which will
> be square) where you have to be concerned about allowing
> the shavings to clear. In every succeeding cut, the
> shavings fall into the mortise.
>
> Now, possibly it's different on an underpowered and
> under-leveraged drill press attachement. But with a
> mortising machine, it is "push it all of the way".
>
> John
>
On 4/23/2015 5:17 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> The drill press had power. Real power. Three pulley, two belts.
> The motor was a 3/4 hp and could really run the spindle.
> It was for Metal and Wood use. It had a special spindle for This
> and another for boring while a normal drill spindle with a 1/2" chuck
> that would hold sub 1/16 centered. It was heavy duty Delta - built
> in the early 50's. Not like the pot metal ones you see today.
I have an old King Seely Drill press built I guess in the 40's. I used
the mortising attachment that I got with it for many years, and it
worked perfect, no problem with the power, no problem with the arms not
giving enough leverage, and the hold down was better than the one on my
Delta dedicated mortiser. The only real draw back, which was mentioned
by someone earlier, was it was a pain to put on and off, and when
installed, you had no drill press. I was going to buy a cheap bench
drill press to leave it on, but never got aroundtoit.
The dedicated mortiser is OK, but it's drawback is it is always there,
even though I don't use it all that often. Less often since I've been
using pocket holes for all face frames.
For cabinet doors, I'd prefer a frame and panel cutter set and stub
tenons rather than using mortise and tenon. I would recommend skipping
the drill press attachment, skip the dedicated mortiser, and buy a good
set or two of frame and panel Knives for my shaper or even a router if
you don't have a shaper. For giant mortises, say in a front door for
your house, use a router.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 23:07:29 -0500
Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
> The drill takes out most of the wood (or should) and you must
> let it transport it to the surface or you jamb up the Mortise chisels
> and run the risk of splitting the chisel. So the process is in / out
> or down and up a bit and down for more. Not to Drive like you are
> pressing a nail into the wood.
that makes sense too
so you're saying a lot of force is not needed
but that depends on the wood
but it all sounds primitive
where're the laser mortisers
they have laser etchers/engravers
seems like a laser mortiser would just need a few more passes
or maybe super high pressure water like they use to cut paper
maybe a little messy for the typical artisan
On 4/22/2015 11:02 PM, G. Ross wrote:
>> 1. If you kreg it, forget plugs, use filler.
> I make my own plugs. Get a dowel that fits and cut it into 6" lengths,
> put some glue on the DOWEL and tap it into the hole. Later saw it off
> with a flush-cut saw and use the other end. Cut the leftover in half
> with a scroll saw and use the two halves. If you put the glue in the
> hole it will gum up the screw and make it difficult to remove if you
> ever need to do so. (As I just had to do to replace a hand rail.)
I don't often use plugs, but I make my own with a simple jig. Make a
pocket hole in a piece of scrap, insert a dowel a bit longer than the
hole, then I use my disk sander to sand off the excess. Also, drill a
hole in the other end of the jig to pop out the dowel filler. Works
like a charm if you need fillers. Typically, I don't use pocket holes
where they show.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
I use a Delta mortising attachment.
http://www.efalk.org/Vardo/bigs/vardo071.jpg.html
It's a bit of a hassle to set up, and probably doesn't do
as good a job as a dedicated mortising machine, but it's
adequate for the task.
If money or space is tight, or you don't do machine mortises
very often, this is probably the way to go.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
1On Sun, 3 May 2015 10:20:13 -0700 (PDT)
"(;harles" <[email protected]> wrote:
> But, how much work are you willing to do to save some time and effort
> with the mortices for this project?.
i'm only a member of the peanut gallery on this thread and was only
trying to understand why the reply to the OP mentioned the handle
length
it turns out that it was due to the force needed to press down to
make the cut
then much bluster ensued about doing more cuts that take less material
and taking care to clear the swath between cuts
> For the $$ and intended use, it might be worth trying out the HFT
the co op with the CNC router with vacuum hold down would be the way
to go
could do all mortises in one go
not sure about the tenons yet
> If you already have the Mortising Attachment - do use it, do make do.
I do but don't want to use it
see above
The drill takes out most of the wood (or should) and you must
let it transport it to the surface or you jamb up the Mortise chisels
and run the risk of splitting the chisel. So the process is in / out or
down and up a bit and down for more. Not to Drive like you are
pressing a nail into the wood.
Martin
On 4/21/2015 5:41 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 17:58:48 -0400
> woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> No it's not because you have to grab a different arm, it's called
>> leverage. A mortiser or really old drill press, use long arms. So
>> they have the leverage that a mortiser needs. Plain and simple.
>
> makes sense
>
> must require additional force due to the chisel
>
> and I'd think you'd want that chisel to be sharp at all times
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
John McCoy <[email protected]> writes:
>Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig
>> but the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might be
>> able to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining technique
>> isn't too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of course use my
>> drill press and a chisel which I have done before but not on 48
>> mortise and tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone has used a
>> mortising attachment for a drill press before I choose one of the two
>> options mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different idea I can use
>> for a sturdy joint.
>
>Well, just to add to what everyone else has said, I think it
>depends on what else you expect to do in woodworking. If you
>intend it to be a continuing hobby, this project probably
>justifies buying a dedicated mortise machine, which you will
>likely use fairly often.
>
>Apropos of the drill press attachment, I'd be sceptical. The
>weak point of mortising machines is the holddown (which stops
>the workpiece lifting when you retract the chisel), from what
>I've seen these are rudimentary or non-existant on drill press
>attachments. Also, as woodchucker mentioned, it takes a fair
>bit of force to push the chisel into the wood, and the handle
>on a drillpress doesn't give you much leverage for that.
>
>So my suggestion here would be, if you'll do more mortises in
>future, buy a benchtop mortising machine. If not, build a
>dedicated jig and use the router.
I started out with a DP attachment for a Delta 17-900. It worked,
but I wouldn't use it for production. Lubricating the bit
and honing the chisel was required for best operation. It's not
difficult to add a cheater to the DP handle if necessary for
additional leverage.
I then picked up a General International benchtop unit. It worked
better, albeit still a bit underpowered; better holddown than
the DP attachment.
I then picked up a horizontal mortiser from Laguna. The best
of the bunch, especially for production.
On 4/20/2015 8:59 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> I recently did a posting about Poplar. I will be making 8 frame and
> panel doors using poplar for stiles and rails and some 1/4" panels. Each
> door will have 3 rails: 4" top and middle and 6" at the bottom. The
> stiles will be 3". Total door width 14" I made a prototype which was
> good for evaluation but I need to make doors that are more sturdy. In
> particular I want to make 1" tenons on each end of the three rails and a
> matching mortise in the stiles. 8 doors. 6 mortise and tenon joints per
> door. 48 joints.
>
> I do not have a dedicated mortising machine. I might use a Kreg jig but
> the holes will be visible each time the door is opened. I might be able
> to use the plugs with a lot of sanding so the joining technique isn't
> too ugly (the doors will be painted). I could of course use my drill
> press and a chisel which I have done before but not on 48 mortise and
> tenon joints. I thought I would ask if anyone has used a mortising
> attachment for a drill press before I choose one of the two options
> mentioned above. Maybe someone has a different idea I can use for a
> sturdy joint.
>
> Your advice is appreciated as always.
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
If these are cabinet doors you would be better off making stub tenons to
fit in slots. Far Simpler and fine for that weight door.
You would probably be better off with a bench top mortiser, they can be
had for not much more than the attachments for a DP and far simpler to
set up.