Not totally OT because that's what kept me out of the shop Saturday
PM and this afternoon. You know how there are some things that you have to
do that you're really glad you don't do all the time? Plumbing is like
that for me. We have some bathroom faucets that have seen better days;
handle twisted off the son's sink yesterday so it was finally time to do
something about it. Got replacements all around and started installing
last evening. Son's sink went OK except I didn't have plumber's putty for
the drain -- found out today that you can't use plumbers putty with marble
or plastic. Since what I have is both (cultured marble, i.e. marble powder
mixed with plastic binder) I had to use caulk instead. Got the son's sink
done and curing then started in on the master bath, sink #1. Fought me
every step of the way. Taking out the old was an exercise in frustration,
nothing would come loose, I couldn't see anything, basin wrench kept
slipping, etc. Finally wound up bending the drain on top till it broke so
I could get it out. After many happy hours, merrily chatting with myself
and the sink components, inquiring into the components' ancestry and
forebears' marital status with a few similar asides for the sink and
cabinet installation's ample clearances and access room, I finally got it
all together, only to find that the elbow trap is now 1/4" short of
engaging the new drain pipe. I know when to admit defeat -- that problem
is going to have to wait until another day.
Tomorrow I get to find out if the sink, supply lines, and drain in the
son's bathroom will hold water. Can't wait.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Owen Lawrence wrote:
>
> When I was a teenager I was installing a new light over my father's
> workbench. I removed the fuse, started to walk away, and in one of
my more
> intelligent moments, went back and put it in my pocket.
>
> Ten minutes later, with my hands up in the wiring, my father comes
up to me
> and asks, "Did you see a fuse from the fusebox anywhere?"
>
> Boy did I learn a few lessons that day!
Basic reason to have a non fused safety switch mounted on the machine
with the ability to have multiple padlocks installed, one for every
trade, every one keyed differently.
Only when the last trade has signed off on a job and removed their
padlock, can the machine be put back in service.
Lew
On Tue, 23 May 2006 14:08:33 -0400, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Not totally OT because that's what kept me out of the shop Saturday
>> PM and this afternoon. You know how there are some things that you have to
>> do that you're really glad you don't do all the time? Plumbing is like
>> that for me.
>
>Thanks for the laugh. Boy-o-boy have I been there! Just recently, in
>fact.
... snip
>the farmhouse didn't appear that old....sooooo
>
>#1 There was a stile blocking my access into the cabinet.
>#2 There was a filtration system occupying that portion of the cabinet
>which was not occupied by:
>#3 a set of small drawers inside the sink cabinet.
>#4 The drain went from copper into a massive cast iron trap.
>#5 NO shut-offs.
>#6 The house main shut-off had a pipe wrench lying beside it as the
>valve handle had been worn to a nub. (AKA "go ahead, Rob..break the
>frickin' thing!")
>
>I billed her 6 hours. She paid. I'm back on solid food again.
>
>Now... about the nightmares...
OK, you win. My problems pale in comparison to that. I somehow feel
better now. :-)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Art Greenberg wrote:
There was a
> small leak at one lousy copper "T" fitting. So I shut off the supply, drained
> the pipes, and proceeded to try to re-sweat the thing. Wouldn't you know it, I
> ran out of gas for my propane torch. This was before we had borg-style stores.
> There was just nowhere to go to get a propane bottle late on Saturday. Sunday
> was Easter, and the hardware stores would be closed on Monday as well. We had
> to spend the weekend at my parent's place. We've laughed about that every
> Easter since.
LOL.. I've always feared that would happen to me. I always make sure I
have extra of everything before I start a plumbing project. I still end
up occasionally missing something at 1 am.. but at least usually it's
a major planning mistake (as opposed to forgeting 1 elbow or running
out of propane.)
Tim wrote:
> I'll happily work on anything else in a house, including live electrical,
> before I dick around with plumbing.
Earlier this year I had some 220 outlets installed. The electrician
arrived with his "assistant" -- his 60+ year old father. I was watching
the electrician first wire the outlet, then attach a powercord to the
saw when his father called out "Going live!". I looked up to see him
finish installing the breaker. He had never once turned off the power.
Gave me the chills something fierce.
dcm
On Sun, 21 May 2006 21:47:22 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> You know how there are some things that you have to do that you're really
> glad you don't do all the time? Plumbing is like that for me.
LOL! Takes me back ...
SWMBO and I had been in our first house, a 25 year old rancher. Water was
originally supplied from a shallow well, and we had just made the change-over
to city water. The plumbing, all accessible in the basement, had been
rearranged before we moved in, and that wasn't very well done. I decided it
would be a good time to completely redo it. It took me the better part of
Saturday to rip everything out, cut and hang new pipe, and solder everything
together. Just around dinner time, I turned the water back on. There was a
small leak at one lousy copper "T" fitting. So I shut off the supply, drained
the pipes, and proceeded to try to re-sweat the thing. Wouldn't you know it, I
ran out of gas for my propane torch. This was before we had borg-style stores.
There was just nowhere to go to get a propane bottle late on Saturday. Sunday
was Easter, and the hardware stores would be closed on Monday as well. We had
to spend the weekend at my parent's place. We've laughed about that every
Easter since.
--
Art Greenberg
artg AT eclipse remove-this DOT net
"Devon Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tim wrote:
> > I'll happily work on anything else in a house, including live
electrical,
> > before I dick around with plumbing.
>
> Earlier this year I had some 220 outlets installed. The electrician
> arrived with his "assistant" -- his 60+ year old father. I was watching
> the electrician first wire the outlet, then attach a powercord to the
> saw when his father called out "Going live!". I looked up to see him
> finish installing the breaker. He had never once turned off the power.
> Gave me the chills something fierce.
>
It's a very common practice to install a breaker in a live box. If it's in
a main panel it's quite impractical to kill the panel just to install a new
circuit. Once one gets accustomed to doing it there really is no reason to
kill a sub-panel either.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Tue, 23 May 2006 10:22:10 GMT, "Tim and Steph" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Amen and hallelujah, brother, yer' preachin' to the choir. Plumbing sucks.
>I'll happily work on anything else in a house, including live electrical,
>before I dick around with plumbing. It's the kind of thing that I don't do
>often enough to get good at it, so the first few joints are always
>troublesome. Usually, by the time I get to the last (i.e. the second)
>joint, it goes really well, and I feel all proud. Then I turn on the water,
>and the first one leaks, and there's woodpile words used in the house,
>tossing of tools, gnashing of teeth, rending of garments and so on.
>
Oh, you definitely know exactly what I'm talking about.
>On a similar note, is it just me, or is "tight enough not to leak"
>inevitably an RCH shy of "tight enough to break it"?
>
>
Yeah, and sometimes I'm not sure if it isn't on the other side of that
point.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
In article <[email protected]>,
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > OK, you win. My problems pale in comparison to that. I somehow feel
> > better now. :-)
>
> I'm glad you feel better now.... my agony wasn't in vain.
>
> I actually like plumbing new stuff. It's kinda fun.
> I found a huge improvement when I went to a torch on the end of a hose
> with a stubby propane tank away from the work. Bernzomatic makes a cheap
> kit for working in tight spaces. Torch on a hose...cheap too.
>
> I keep one in my kitchen because I like burning the skin off peppers,
> then I rinse them off and what's left is uncooked, skinless pepper
> flesh...which I then quick-fry lightly in a little olive oil and salt,
> and slap it on bread....major yummyness.
This is the one: http://tinyurl.com/86j9k
In article <[email protected]>,
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
> OK, you win. My problems pale in comparison to that. I somehow feel
> better now. :-)
I'm glad you feel better now.... my agony wasn't in vain.
I actually like plumbing new stuff. It's kinda fun.
I found a huge improvement when I went to a torch on the end of a hose
with a stubby propane tank away from the work. Benzomatic makes a cheap
kit for working in tight spaces. Torch on a hose...cheap too.
I keep one in my kitchen because I like burning the skin off peppers,
then I rinse them off and what's left is uncooked, skinless pepper
flesh...which I then quick-fry lightly in a little olive oil and salt,
and slap it on bread....major yummyness.
In article <[email protected]>,
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
> Not totally OT because that's what kept me out of the shop Saturday
> PM and this afternoon. You know how there are some things that you have to
> do that you're really glad you don't do all the time? Plumbing is like
> that for me.
Thanks for the laugh. Boy-o-boy have I been there! Just recently, in
fact.
I had sold this lady a banjo-shaped vanity top with a solid surface sink
mounted to the bottom of the countertop. She had also bought some
quality taps from my friend the plumber-supply who informed her that
they wouldn't be able to get to her hook-up for another 3-4 days.
She bats her eyes and asks me if *I* can do such a hook-up.
In a fit of insanity I agreed. It had been a long time since I had seen
the site, but I recalled that the sink cabinet was quite spacious and
the farmhouse didn't appear that old....sooooo
#1 There was a stile blocking my access into the cabinet.
#2 There was a filtration system occupying that portion of the cabinet
which was not occupied by:
#3 a set of small drawers inside the sink cabinet.
#4 The drain went from copper into a massive cast iron trap.
#5 NO shut-offs.
#6 The house main shut-off had a pipe wrench lying beside it as the
valve handle had been worn to a nub. (AKA "go ahead, Rob..break the
frickin' thing!")
I billed her 6 hours. She paid. I'm back on solid food again.
Now... about the nightmares...
On Sun, 21 May 2006 21:47:22 -0700, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> Not totally OT because that's what kept me out of the shop Saturday
>PM and this afternoon. You know how there are some things that you have to
>do that you're really glad you don't do all the time? Plumbing is like
>that for me. We have some bathroom faucets that have seen better days;
... snip
>engaging the new drain pipe. I know when to admit defeat -- that problem
>is going to have to wait until another day.
>
> Tomorrow I get to find out if the sink, supply lines, and drain in the
>son's bathroom will hold water. Can't wait.
>
>
>
Thanks for all the responses. Got home from work tonight, turned on the
supply lines to the son's faucet and it worked with no leaks. Feeling
bolstered by success, tried the same with the master bath sink. Found the
problem with the drain fitting and got that fixed, then tried the leak
test. The supply lines held up well, but had some leakage from the drain.
After a bit more fiddling, finally got that leak cleared up also. So, two
sinks down, two to go. Gosh, I just enjoyed the heck out of the first two,
can't wait for the next two. :-(
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> Tim wrote:
>> I'll happily work on anything else in a house, including live electrical,
>> before I dick around with plumbing.
>
> Earlier this year I had some 220 outlets installed. The electrician
> arrived with his "assistant" -- his 60+ year old father. I was watching
> the electrician first wire the outlet, then attach a powercord to the
> saw when his father called out "Going live!". I looked up to see him
> finish installing the breaker. He had never once turned off the power.
> Gave me the chills something fierce.
When I was a teenager I was installing a new light over my father's
workbench. I removed the fuse, started to walk away, and in one of my more
intelligent moments, went back and put it in my pocket.
Ten minutes later, with my hands up in the wiring, my father comes up to me
and asks, "Did you see a fuse from the fusebox anywhere?"
Boy did I learn a few lessons that day!
- Owen -
Amen and hallelujah, brother, yer' preachin' to the choir. Plumbing sucks.
I'll happily work on anything else in a house, including live electrical,
before I dick around with plumbing. It's the kind of thing that I don't do
often enough to get good at it, so the first few joints are always
troublesome. Usually, by the time I get to the last (i.e. the second)
joint, it goes really well, and I feel all proud. Then I turn on the water,
and the first one leaks, and there's woodpile words used in the house,
tossing of tools, gnashing of teeth, rending of garments and so on.
On a similar note, is it just me, or is "tight enough not to leak"
inevitably an RCH shy of "tight enough to break it"?
Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> Not totally OT because that's what kept me out of the shop Saturday
> PM and this afternoon. You know how there are some things that you have
> to
> do that you're really glad you don't do all the time? Plumbing is like
> that for me. We have some bathroom faucets that have seen better days;
> handle twisted off the son's sink yesterday so it was finally time to do
> something about it. Got replacements all around and started installing
> last evening. Son's sink went OK except I didn't have plumber's putty for
> the drain -- found out today that you can't use plumbers putty with marble
> or plastic. Since what I have is both (cultured marble, i.e. marble
> powder
> mixed with plastic binder) I had to use caulk instead. Got the son's sink
> done and curing then started in on the master bath, sink #1. Fought me
> every step of the way. Taking out the old was an exercise in frustration,
> nothing would come loose, I couldn't see anything, basin wrench kept
> slipping, etc. Finally wound up bending the drain on top till it broke so
> I could get it out. After many happy hours, merrily chatting with myself
> and the sink components, inquiring into the components' ancestry and
> forebears' marital status with a few similar asides for the sink and
> cabinet installation's ample clearances and access room, I finally got it
> all together, only to find that the elbow trap is now 1/4" short of
> engaging the new drain pipe. I know when to admit defeat -- that problem
> is going to have to wait until another day.
>
> Tomorrow I get to find out if the sink, supply lines, and drain in the
> son's bathroom will hold water. Can't wait.
>
>
Plumbing is always troublesome, old rusted stuck pipes. I've started buying
the "contractor packs" the borgs call them, basically a bulk bag of parts
because I always mess up one or two and always grab an extra roll of solder
before I start. Our portable grill uses the same tanks as the torch so I
have plenty of spares for that. I've given up on trying to take the old
stuff apart just pull out the reciprocating saw, saves a lot of time and
frustration because I'm going to have to use it sooner or later anyway.
Of course its always fun when the builder of your house didn't believe in
shut off valves, it takes quite a while to drain everything when the only
valve was the main. But I, having worked on servers all day long with all
their redundancy built in, end up going overboard and putting shutoffs in
various places. I've almost gotten to a triple redundant load balanced
dual core plumbing system.
On Mon, 22 May 2006 08:07:48 -0700, bf wrote:
>
> Art Greenberg wrote:
> There was a
>> small leak at one lousy copper "T" fitting. So I shut off the supply, drained
>> the pipes, and proceeded to try to re-sweat the thing. Wouldn't you know it, I
>> ran out of gas for my propane torch. This was before we had borg-style stores.
>> There was just nowhere to go to get a propane bottle late on Saturday. Sunday
>> was Easter, and the hardware stores would be closed on Monday as well. We had
>> to spend the weekend at my parent's place. We've laughed about that every
>> Easter since.
>
> LOL.. I've always feared that would happen to me. I always make sure I
> have extra of everything before I start a plumbing project. I still end
> up occasionally missing something at 1 am.. but at least usually it's
> a major planning mistake (as opposed to forgeting 1 elbow or running
> out of propane.)
I think there are a couple of truisms:
"Any project requires one more trip to the hardware store before
completion."
"Any given trip to the hardware store will end with the part out of stock
or unavailable."
I'm sure there are more.
D.G. Adams