I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
in this case? Thanks for any advice.
In article <[email protected]>, Bob
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> in this case? Thanks for any advice.
If you're going to paint it, what about plywood with edge banding?
djb
In article <[email protected]>, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Unfortunately rec.woodworking was created pre-deja sometime in the mid-'80s
> (originally "net.rec.wood" I understand) and its charter appears to have
> gotten lost in the mists of time, so any reference to it at this point
> would appear moot.
There never was a charter.
In article <[email protected]>, Jana
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I've said enough and my daughter wants the
> pony saddled up, so I'm off. later, jana
Have fun with the girl and the pony, and please feel free to advise us
of your services when the context allows. Personally, I appreciate it.
djb
In article <[email protected]>, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Are you saying that from the viewpoint of someone who was present when the
> group was formed?
No, as someone who has researched it.
Kind of depends on where you are. East, Midwest = poplar. West coast =
Alder. I love Alder.
--
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> in this case? Thanks for any advice.
First choice: poplar. Then the next least inexpensive hardwood would
probably be hickory. I can get hickory for $3/bf locally.
Brian.
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> in this case? Thanks for any advice.
[email protected] (Bob) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> in this case? Thanks for any advice.
Hello,
Soft or silver maple is what I would suggest for durability and
paintablity. It's also inexpensive. $1.80 per bf (nice wide boards)
plus shipping (normally about a buck a ft.) from us if you can't get
it locally. www.hartzellwoodstock.bigstep.com
[email protected] (Jana) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Bob) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> > an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> > up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> > painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> > grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> > in this case? Thanks for any advice.
>
> Hello,
> Soft or silver maple is what I would suggest for durability and
> paintablity. It's also inexpensive. $1.80 per bf (nice wide boards)
> plus shipping (normally about a buck a ft.) from us if you can't get
> it locally. www.hartzellwoodstock.bigstep.com
Hello,
Yes, everyone, I realize some would concider this spam. Bob asked
for the info and I was only trying to be helpful. I frequently check
out what's going on here to learn tips from the knowledge of others.
Concidering I not only sell lumber and flooring but I personally also
finish furniture, by hand, for a living. Sorry if I've offended anyone
but I think I've earned the priveledge of a post here and there. Trust
me, I've done my time. Anyone who has ordered from us or even so much
as emailed me with questions would say the same.
[email protected] (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Mutt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Jana: Your suggestion of soft maple as an alternative to poplar was
> > not only good advice (some boards of lesser quality are sold as "paint
> > grade"), but the ever so slight touting of your business was in good
> > taste as well, and to this observer, not offensive at all. You were
> > also very nice in your response, I'd have told them to go pound salt
> > up their arse.......
> >
> > I'm now off to check out your site.
>
> It falls into the category of a 'stealth' or 'drive-by ad'. As
> you note, the article was a valid otpical contribution to the
> discussion, with the commercial content slipped in at the end.
>
> I didn't mind it either.
>
> But, and it's big but, the issue is not whether or not I like the
> article, it is whether or not that sort of thing is permitted by
> the rec.woodworking charter.
>
> Imagine if every one who sold woodworking related products contributed
> to every thread so as to slip in an ad. Suppose every thread about
> any tool carried by Sears would receive a polite, on-topic,
> contribution from the tool department manager of every Sears in
> North America. Ditto for wood finishes. Now suppose someone
> from every Home Depot and Lowes did the same.
>
> That is why most newsgroup charters strictly forbid commercial
> postings. A common exception, for obvous reasons, is for sale
> or wanted to buy/trade ads posted by regular contributers to
> the groups, who plainly did not just post the ad and dissappear.
>
> The quality of the articles is not the issue. It's the potential
> volume.
Fred, One obvious differrence. I am not a huge chain. I own a small
business and actually care about my customers. I do not spend wads of
money on advertising and pass the cost along to customers. If my
customers aren't over satisfied with the treatment (both price and
personal attention) I'm not happy. Do you call Sears, Lows, or Home
Depot and get the owner on the phone? I have responded to other posts
without adding my URl but this one was a direct question for a product
I carry and I think the soft maple is a better alternative to the
aspen..which I also carry. I've said enough and my daughter wants the
pony saddled up, so I'm off. later, jana
[email protected] (Jana) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (Mutt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > > Jana: Your suggestion of soft maple as an alternative to poplar was
> > > not only good advice (some boards of lesser quality are sold as "paint
> > > grade"), but the ever so slight touting of your business was in good
> > > taste as well, and to this observer, not offensive at all. You were
> > > also very nice in your response, I'd have told them to go pound salt
> > > up their arse.......
> > >
> > > I'm now off to check out your site.
> >
> > It falls into the category of a 'stealth' or 'drive-by ad'. As
> > you note, the article was a valid otpical contribution to the
> > discussion, with the commercial content slipped in at the end.
> >
> > I didn't mind it either.
> >
> > But, and it's big but, the issue is not whether or not I like the
> > article, it is whether or not that sort of thing is permitted by
> > the rec.woodworking charter.
> >
> > Imagine if every one who sold woodworking related products contributed
> > to every thread so as to slip in an ad. Suppose every thread about
> > any tool carried by Sears would receive a polite, on-topic,
> > contribution from the tool department manager of every Sears in
> > North America. Ditto for wood finishes. Now suppose someone
> > from every Home Depot and Lowes did the same.
> >
> > That is why most newsgroup charters strictly forbid commercial
> > postings. A common exception, for obvous reasons, is for sale
> > or wanted to buy/trade ads posted by regular contributers to
> > the groups, who plainly did not just post the ad and dissappear.
> >
> > The quality of the articles is not the issue. It's the potential
> > volume.
>
> Fred, One obvious differrence. I am not a huge chain. I own a small
> business and actually care about my customers. I do not spend wads of
> money on advertising and pass the cost along to customers. If my
> customers aren't over satisfied with the treatment (both price and
> personal attention) I'm not happy. Do you call Sears, Lows, or Home
> Depot and get the owner on the phone? I have responded to other posts
> without adding my URl but this one was a direct question for a product
> I carry and I think the soft maple is a better alternative to the
> aspen..which I also carry. I've said enough and my daughter wants the
> pony saddled up, so I'm off. later, jana
Hello again, It's pretty lame of me to only show my defensive
side. Thank you very much to those who wrote here or emailed me
personally in support. I do appreciate it. Thanks again, Jana
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> The answer for painted projects is poplar.
> It is very easy to work, is stable, and takes paint well.
>
I've also used alder (softer) and birch (harder). Depends on
what's cheap in your area.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> > I'd look it up for you but it looks like you are forging the
> > headers in your UseNet articles.
>
> I am simply _dying_ to know your reasoning on that one.
>
I'm simply _dying_ to know why you quoted over 100 lines just to
give a 1 line response :-).
Try a little editing next time. If you don't know how, ask a
teenager :-).
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
And thus, the problem between "tulip" and real poplar again. Real poplar
would work as well, but it is going to be fuzzier requiring one more
sand-down.
Depending on location, different woods will be available. I'd use bass or
aspen (Poplar) both of which barely return the cost of sawing up here, and
both of which work and take paint well, though aspen can do some moving if
you're ripping boards.
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > To reiterate:
> >
> > The answer for painted projects is poplar.
> > It is very easy to work, is stable, and takes paint well.
> >
> > The Mona Lisa was painted on poplar.
> > http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Mona_Lisa
> >
> > It has held up OK.
>
> But that's Lombardy Poplar. <G> And the cite you gave says it's
> deteriorating pretty fast.
> >
> > Paul.
> >
>
Members of the Populus genus are, of course poplars, regardless of common
names.
http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/HardwoodNA/htmlDocs/populussp.html
"Fred the Red Shirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Depending on location, different woods will be available. I'd use bass
or
> > aspen (Poplar) ...
>
> In the same vein, Aspen isn't real Poplar either. Real Poplar,
> Aspen and Cottonwood can look quite a bit alike both
> on the stump and by the board. I think Cottonwood is fuzzy too,
> though the name comes form the cottony fluff that forms when it
> 'flowers' not the fibrousness of the wood.
Jana: Your suggestion of soft maple as an alternative to poplar was
not only good advice (some boards of lesser quality are sold as "paint
grade"), but the ever so slight touting of your business was in good
taste as well, and to this observer, not offensive at all. You were
also very nice in your response, I'd have told them to go pound salt
up their arse.......
I'm now off to check out your site.
Mutt
> [email protected] (Jana) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > Hello,
> > Soft or silver maple is what I would suggest for durability and
> > paintablity. It's also inexpensive. $1.80 per bf (nice wide boards)
> > plus shipping (normally about a buck a ft.) from us if you can't get
> > it locally. www.hartzellwoodstock.bigstep.com
>
> Hello,
> Yes, everyone, I realize some would concider this spam. Bob asked
> for the info and I was only trying to be helpful. I frequently check
> out what's going on here to learn tips from the knowledge of others.
> Concidering I not only sell lumber and flooring but I personally also
> finish furniture, by hand, for a living. Sorry if I've offended anyone
> but I think I've earned the priveledge of a post here and there. Trust
> me, I've done my time. Anyone who has ordered from us or even so much
> as emailed me with questions would say the same.
I'm not inclined towards engaging in nor soliciting a big war here,
but c'mon, Fred, there was nothing stealth or drive-by about this.
Jana offered a solution (which happens to be IMHO a correct solution)
to a query which, I also note, was seconded by several posters, and
because she is in the biz, albeit a small biz (and for that matter,
somewhere in the midwest if I also recall correctly) gave the poor guy
an idea of the cost at her shop and as I recall even suggested he get
it locally. Now, I have noticed Jana hanging out on the wreck for at
least 2 years or so and has not abused the group. As the "Car Talk"
guys say, "shameless commerce" occasionally occurs here, folks put tag
lines on their posts for all sorts of stuff, and as long as you
contribute to the exchange of info what's the big deal. Robin Lee is
a good case in point, here's a guy who is running what I would call a
pretty big business; he does not hawk his stuff in the group, but pays
attention to what's going on, adds his 2 cents on topics and promises
to follow up on gripes, etc., and he likely does this to keep track of
the pulse of his customers needs, wants, issues, etc., and frankly,
that's refreshing. His name alone is well known among denizens of the
wreck, a celebrity of sorts (e.g., wouldn't we all want to own a
woodworking tool company, get to help design planes, play with the
inventory...)so would the simple use of his own name, rather than some
nom de plume, constitute a "drive by" or "stealth" ad.... I think not.
I for one have no worry that every manager of tool manufacturers or
retailers of tools are going to take the time to pay attention to this
newsgroup, contribute, and then tout their wares to the point that it
is troublesome. If they do, then "plonk" them. If someone becomes
offensive or brazen, I have no doubt that their efforts will backfire,
as the regulars around here will drill them a new orifice (gee, should
we use an auger, spade, brad point or forstner bit for that??) and
those overly commercial types will realize their actions are
counter-productive.
Jana, if you read this please know that your input here is appreciated
and if you want to help someone out with prices or availablity, just
like you did in this instance, its fine with me and I suggest fine
with (to borrow a slightly tarnished Nixonian phrase) the silent
majority of wreckers.
Mutt
[email protected] (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Mutt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Jana: Your suggestion of soft maple as an alternative to poplar was
> > not only good advice (some boards of lesser quality are sold as "paint
> > grade"), but the ever so slight touting of your business was in good
> > taste as well, and to this observer, not offensive at all. You were
> > also very nice in your response, I'd have told them to go pound salt
> > up their arse.......
> >
> > I'm now off to check out your site.
>
> It falls into the category of a 'stealth' or 'drive-by ad'. As
> you note, the article was a valid otpical contribution to the
> discussion, with the commercial content slipped in at the end.
>
> I didn't mind it either.
>
> But, and it's big but, the issue is not whether or not I like the
> article, it is whether or not that sort of thing is permitted by
> the rec.woodworking charter.
>
> Imagine if every one who sold woodworking related products contributed
> to every thread so as to slip in an ad. Suppose every thread about
> any tool carried by Sears would receive a polite, on-topic,
> contribution from the tool department manager of every Sears in
> North America. Ditto for wood finishes. Now suppose someone
> from every Home Depot and Lowes did the same.
>
> That is why most newsgroup charters strictly forbid commercial
> postings. A common exception, for obvous reasons, is for sale
> or wanted to buy/trade ads posted by regular contributers to
> the groups, who plainly did not just post the ad and dissappear.
>
> The quality of the articles is not the issue. It's the potential
> volume.
On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 18:29:56 -0700, "Pounds on Wood"
<[email protected]> wrote:
|Kind of depends on where you are. East, Midwest = poplar. West coast =
|Alder. I love Alder.
I'm using some Alder right now. I'm not sure I'm in love yet and even
in AZ poplar is cheaper. Unpainted, it looks way nicer than poplar
(what doesn't) but it sure doesn't like dull tools.
Wes
Jana
I don't consider it a spam. Fact I appreciate it as I'm looking for a
new wood source, my locals are not satiscaftory anymore and you can't
always find everything with Google
[email protected] (Jana) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Jana) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (Bob) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > > I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> > > an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> > > up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> > > painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> > > grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> > > in this case? Thanks for any advice.
> >
> > Hello,
> > Soft or silver maple is what I would suggest for durability and
> > paintablity. It's also inexpensive. $1.80 per bf (nice wide boards)
> > plus shipping (normally about a buck a ft.) from us if you can't get
> > it locally. www.hartzellwoodstock.bigstep.com
>
> Hello,
> Yes, everyone, I realize some would concider this spam. Bob asked
> for the info and I was only trying to be helpful. I frequently check
> out what's going on here to learn tips from the knowledge of others.
> Concidering I not only sell lumber and flooring but I personally also
> finish furniture, by hand, for a living. Sorry if I've offended anyone
> but I think I've earned the priveledge of a post here and there. Trust
> me, I've done my time. Anyone who has ordered from us or even so much
> as emailed me with questions would say the same.
Bob wrote:
> I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> in this case? Thanks for any advice.
poplar.
poplar.
poplar.
:)
dave
Old Nick wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 20:34:13 -0400, "Murf" <[email protected]>
> vaguely proposed a theory
> ......and in reply I say!:
>
> remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>
>
>>He said he wanted to use a "hardwood"...isn't poplar a softwood?
>
>
> I will put this gently. You are new here? This was a troll, for no
> apparent reason, by people who should know better the replies are
> simply sycophantic extensions of the original "joke".
now THAT'S the first time I've been called sycophantic! I
tend to use that term often, without being a participant in
such behavior.
dave
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> in this case? Thanks for any advice.
>
Poplar
--
MikeG
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
> Technically a Hard Wood. A soft hard wood.
>
>
thanks for jumping in, Leon! :) it's soft enough that the
for the rails of my second and third Delta mobile bases, I
used maple. The first one, made from poplar, was a little
less rigid than I'd hoped for, but due to the light duty I
put it to, it's irrelevant.
dave
He said he wanted to use a "hardwood"...isn't poplar a softwood?
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bob wrote:
>
> > I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> > an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> > up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> > painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> > grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> > in this case? Thanks for any advice.
> poplar.
> poplar.
> poplar.
>
> :)
>
>
> dave
>
As it has been around since 1503, I don't think longevity would be a
problem.
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:xP4Gc.10328> > The Mona Lisa was painted on poplar.
> > http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Mona_Lisa
> >
> > It has held up OK.
>
> But that's Lombardy Poplar. <G> And the cite you gave says it's
> deteriorating pretty fast.
> >
> > Paul.
> >
>
[email protected] (Jana) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Bob) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> > an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> > up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> > painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> > grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> > in this case? Thanks for any advice.
>
> Hello,
> Soft or silver maple is what I would suggest for durability and
> paintablity. It's also inexpensive. $1.80 per bf (nice wide boards)
> plus shipping (normally about a buck a ft.) from us if you can't get
> it locally. www.hartzellwoodstock.bigstep.com
Way to spoil an innocent newsgroup with your not-so-well-hidden
self-promoting advertisements, you overweight fiend. If I wanted to
hear about how your amazing company can save me money, I'd freaking go
to the Gator site and start purposefully downloading adware. I hope
your business burns to the ground.
On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 19:15:30 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Bob" wrote in message
>> I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
>> an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
>> up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
>> painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
>> grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
>> in this case? Thanks for any advice.
>
>Poplar.
Agreed, with an additional comment.
Make any parts that are subject to lots of handling or abuse like
doors, face frames that have doors attached, drawer fronts, kick
plates, etc with maple. Maple will have a more solid feel and resist
dings and other damage better than soft poplar.
Since you're painting it, you can mix the woods at will.
Barry
On 6 Jul 2004 23:59:23 -0700, [email protected] (Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:
> Fir and Southern Yellow Pine both softwoods, are both
>harder than poplar.
>
>The defintions of hardwood and softwood are objective though
>abitrary in the sense that neither depends on the hardness
>of the wood:
>
>If it had leaves on it when it was alive, it is a hardwood.
>If it had needles on it when it was alive it is a softrwood.
what about juniper? it's definitely a softwood, though it can be
pretty hard and has neither leaves nor needles- though what it has is
probably closer to leaves than needles....
It depends on your local market for hardwoods.
I cn get "brown maple" which is maple with less desirable brown heartwood
streaks in it for something just about the same price as poplar ($1.60/bf
from my supplier)
Having recently completed a couple painted pieces in poplar, I would not do
it again. For the same price, I would rather have have the hardness of
maple.
See what your local supplier has. Prices are very regional.
-Steve
"DIYGUY" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I like rock (or sometimes called hard) maple for these types of
> projects. The cost is generally half again that for poplar but it
> usually doesn't phase me when I am spending it on myself ...
>
> Bob wrote:
> > I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> > an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> > up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> > painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> > grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> > in this case? Thanks for any advice.
>
Balsa is also a soft hardwood.
George
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Technically a Hard Wood. A soft hard wood.
>
>
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> [email protected] (Jana) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>> Yes, everyone, I realize some would concider this spam. ...
>
> Incorrectly IMHO, unless you widely crossposted or reposted it as
> spam requires a bulk characteristic.
>
> The article in question plainly falls in the category of a commercial
> advertisement posted to a recreation newsgroup. On Usenet this
> predates spam by a decade or so. E.g. it has been despised longer
> than spam...
>
> Some newsgroup charters permit comercial articles, others forbid
> them, most newsgroup charters have long-been ignored since most
> sys-admins long ago lost the authority to terminate users for charter
> violations.
>
> For that matter, few sysadmins are allowed to terminate users
> for spam, hacking, identity theft, fraud, DDOS attacks or any
> outright criminal activity. A typical internet miscreant these
> days is hosted by an American Telecom where customer terminations
> have to be approved by the sales department.
>
> Ah for the good old days when sysadmins ruled the internet.
I don't recall seeing a SPAM post hosted by any company called "American
Telecom". Most of it seems to be hosted by overseas companies or submitted
via anonymous remailer. See for example the current round of Simpsons crap
that is hosted by MCI Canada.
In point of fact the only time I can recall having any trouble getting a
user terminated for egregious misbehavior was when he was hosted by
Altopia. Finally ended up just killfiling the whole domain.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>>
>> > ...
>> >
>> > For that matter, few sysadmins are allowed to terminate users
>> > for spam, hacking, identity theft, fraud, DDOS attacks or any
>> > outright criminal activity. A typical internet miscreant these
>> > days is hosted by an American Telecom where customer terminations
>> > have to be approved by the sales department.
>> >
>> > Ah for the good old days when sysadmins ruled the internet.
>>
>> I don't recall seeing a SPAM post hosted by any company called "American
>> Telecom". Most of it seems to be hosted by overseas companies or
>> submitted
>> via anonymous remailer. See for example the current round of Simpsons
>> crap that is hosted by MCI Canada.
>>
>> In point of fact the only time I can recall having any trouble getting a
>> user terminated for egregious misbehavior was when he was hosted by
>> Altopia. Finally ended up just killfiling the whole domain.
>
> From: http://www.spamhaus.org/
>
> Top 10 Spam Countries June 2004 (Based, i think, of volume of spam
> originating from servers in that country)
>
> 1 United States
> 2 China
> 3 South Korea
> 4 Taiwan
> 5 Brazil
> 6 Canada
> 7 Argentina
> 8 Russia
> 9 Italy
> 10 Hong Kong
>
> Top 10 Worst Spam ISPs June 2004
>
> 1 mci.com
> 2 kornet.net
> 3 savvis.net
> 4 chinanet-cq
> 5 chinanet-gd
> 6 above.net
> 7 comcast.net
> 8 interbusiness.it
> 9 level3.net
> 10 verizon.net
>
> Note #1, 6, 7, 9, and 10 are US-based.
>
> Top 10 ROKSO Spammers June 2004
>
> 1 Alan Ralsky
> 2 Scott Richter - Wholesalebandwidth
> 3 Alexey Panov - ckync.com
> 4 Yambo Financials
> 5 Phil Doroff / Five Elements, Inc
> 6 Eric Reinertsen
> 7 John Grandinetti / 321send.com
> 8 lmihosting.com
> 9 Robert Soloway - NIM
> 10 Pavka / Artofit
>
> I recognize #1 and 2 as Americans, I'm sure a few more of the others
> are as well.
>
> See also the ROKSO list:
>
> http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/index.lasso
>
> I complained to Sprint about spam from Whitcon (Nick Allaby)
> for about six months.
>
> Then I escalated the complaints to two people in Sprint Management
> whose email addresses I obtained courtesy of bitchlist.com. One
> wrote back saying that she had referred to matter to Sprint abuse,
> who had already failed to act on the 50 to 100 complaints I had
> already sent to them. When the next Whitconspam was received, I
> wrote to her again and then recieved a reply from [email protected],
> the first such reply I had ever received, all of the rest had been
> automated replies (e.g. auto-lies). Abuse.Sprint told me that
> they had dealt with my complaint by passing it on to the spammer.
> Evidently the abuse department at Sprint was still not authorized
> to teminate Whitcon, one of the internets most notorious spammers.
>
> One of the most persistan myths on the intenet is that ISPs have
> trouble finding spammers. It is a damnlie. They don;pt hafve trouble
> finding spammers, spammers find hem and buy internet service from them.
>
> Not from all ISPs. But those that were formerly major telecoms are
> the worst whereas some like AOL, and United Online maintain a huge
> userbase and stay pretty damned clean
>
> You can look up your ISP here to see which spammers they host:
>
> http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/isp.lasso
>
> I'd look it up for you but it looks like you are forging the
> headers in your UseNet articles.
I am simply _dying_ to know your reasoning on that one.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
> It falls into the category of a 'stealth' or 'drive-by ad'. As
> you note, the article was a valid otpical contribution to the
> discussion, with the commercial content slipped in at the end.
>
> I didn't mind it either.
>
> But, and it's big but, the issue is not whether or not I like the
> article, it is whether or not that sort of thing is permitted by
> the rec.woodworking charter.
>
I am unaware of a formal "charter" as non-moderated group, any such charter
would simply be edict by a self-appointed contributor.
That said, precedent shows that the occasional commercial post by
conscientious contributors are considered acceptable.
Steve Knight come to mind.
I would argue that this does not even reach that standard as the commercial
post in question was *solicited*.
Simplified:
OP: I need a solution to a problem
Responder: Here is a valid solution, BTW I sell it. (Quality information
provided, with full disclosure)
There is *nothing* even slightly unethical, or inappropriate about that. If
I were the OP, I would appreciate that response.
-Steve
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> [email protected] (Mutt) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Jana: Your suggestion of soft maple as an alternative to poplar was
>> not only good advice (some boards of lesser quality are sold as "paint
>> grade"), but the ever so slight touting of your business was in good
>> taste as well, and to this observer, not offensive at all. You were
>> also very nice in your response, I'd have told them to go pound salt
>> up their arse.......
>>
>> I'm now off to check out your site.
>
> It falls into the category of a 'stealth' or 'drive-by ad'. As
> you note, the article was a valid otpical contribution to the
> discussion, with the commercial content slipped in at the end.
>
> I didn't mind it either.
Then what are you bellyaching about?
> But, and it's big but, the issue is not whether or not I like the
> article, it is whether or not that sort of thing is permitted by
> the rec.woodworking charter.
I see. So you are laboring under the misconception that someone appointed
you netcop and charged you with the duty of reporting even the most minute
violation of the newsgroup charter. Well, guess what. Nobody did. With
regard to the post being a violation of the charter, is it? Do you have a
link to or copy of the charter? If so, you would be doing the group as a
whole a service if you would you be kind enough to post it as the original
appears to have been lost. If not, then would you be kind enough to quit
accusing people of infractions of a charter that you have not yourself
read?
> Imagine if every one who sold woodworking related products contributed
> to every thread so as to slip in an ad. Suppose every thread about
> any tool carried by Sears would receive a polite, on-topic,
> contribution from the tool department manager of every Sears in
> North America.
Since that would require that (a) the tool department manager of every Sears
in the country actually knew enough to provide a polite, on-topic
contribution, and (b) that he actually read the wreck that would probably
be an improvement over the current situation. However I suspect that the
Sears marketing department would consider this to be a waste of resources.
In any case, the practice in many newsgroups is to allow commercial posts
provided they are not excessive--once a month per company is a common
limitation. Absent a copy of the rec.woodworking charter I think it would
be courteous to assume this limit.
> Ditto for wood finishes.
Same.
> Now suppose someone
> from every Home Depot and Lowes did the same.
Never happen. They'd have to hire someone in every store who actually knew
how to read.
In any case, any of these scenarios would easily cross the SPAM threshold.
> That is why most newsgroup charters strictly forbid commercial
> postings.
Do they? Do you have statistics on this?
A common exception, for obvous reasons, is for sale
> or wanted to buy/trade ads posted by regular contributers to
> the groups, who plainly did not just post the ad and dissappear.
>
> The quality of the articles is not the issue. It's the potential
> volume.
When "potential" from this particular poster turns into "actual" then I'd
worry about it.
>
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Stephen M wrote:
>> It falls into the category of a 'stealth' or 'drive-by ad'. As
>> you note, the article was a valid otpical contribution to the
>> discussion, with the commercial content slipped in at the end.
>>
>> I didn't mind it either.
>>
>> But, and it's big but, the issue is not whether or not I like the
>> article, it is whether or not that sort of thing is permitted by
>> the rec.woodworking charter.
>>
>
> I am unaware of a formal "charter" as non-moderated group, any such
> charter would simply be edict by a self-appointed contributor.
Doesn't work that way in the Big Eight heirarchy of which "rec" is one. For
a newsgroup to be established a charter has to be written, voted on, and
accepted before the newsgroup can be established. News administrators are
not obligated to honor the charter--some organizations do this as a matter
of policy, others do not.
Unfortunately rec.woodworking was created pre-deja sometime in the mid-'80s
(originally "net.rec.wood" I understand) and its charter appears to have
gotten lost in the mists of time, so any reference to it at this point
would appear moot.
> That said, precedent shows that the occasional commercial post by
> conscientious contributors are considered acceptable.
>
> Steve Knight come to mind.
>
> I would argue that this does not even reach that standard as the
> commercial post in question was *solicited*.
>
> Simplified:
>
> OP: I need a solution to a problem
> Responder: Here is a valid solution, BTW I sell it. (Quality information
> provided, with full disclosure)
>
> There is *nothing* even slightly unethical, or inappropriate about that.
> If I were the OP, I would appreciate that response.
>
> -Steve
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, J. Clarke
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately rec.woodworking was created pre-deja sometime in the
>> mid-'80s (originally "net.rec.wood" I understand) and its charter appears
>> to have gotten lost in the mists of time, so any reference to it at this
>> point would appear moot.
>
> There never was a charter.
Are you saying that from the viewpoint of someone who was present when the
group was formed?
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> WHINED in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>>
>>> >
>> > I didn't mind it either.
>>
>> Then what are you bellyaching about?
>>
>> > But, and it's big but, the issue is not whether or not I like the
>> > article, it is whether or not that sort of thing is permitted by
>> > the rec.woodworking charter.
>>
>> I see. So you are laboring under the misconception that someone
>> appointed you netcop
>
> See UseNet mesage-ID: <[email protected]>
Uh huh. Changed your tune when you found out that netcopping doesn't make
you popular?
>> In any case, any of these scenarios would easily cross the SPAM
>> threshold.
>
> Huh? Spam (Note that Hormel owns the trademark SPAM and has politely
> asked that we only use it (all caps) in reference to their product but
> they don't object to using spam (lower case) for unsolicited bulk
> email
> or frequently posted or widely posted UseNet articles. Since they are
> being good sports about it and have thus far only sued spammers for
> violating their trademark I encourage folks to honor that request.
> Most
> folks who use SPAM, incorrectly, for unsolicited bulk email or widely
> crossposted or frequently reposted UseNet articles just aren't aware
> of Hormel's position. Of course some folks are just pricks and won't
> cooperate but I digress.) woudl not be an issue in the scenario I
> suggested
Are you really this ignorant?
>> > The quality of the articles is not the issue. It's the potential
>> > volume.
>>
>> When "potential" from this particular poster turns into "actual" then I'd
>> worry about it.
>> >
>
> Then it would be too late.
>
> See also: http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/wherefaq.html
What of it?
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
> I also agree that there is little or nothing to be gained by
> continuing this discussion,
No.
>and it could rapidly erupt into a flame war.
It the risk of sounding childish *you* already started it.
> I perdict that lots of peopl will disagree with
> me on this last point...
Yes.
The only thing I have to add is my "vote" to reassure jana his/her?
contribution is appreciated. Your implication that her/his response was spam
is unwarranted bashing in my book. That's just my opinion. You are entitled
to yours. But it is my perogative to dissent in the interest of assuring
jana that yours is a minority opinion and therefore encourage more quality
posts.
-Steve
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>>
>> >> >
>> > See UseNet mesage-ID: <[email protected]>
>>
>> Uh huh. Changed your tune when you found out that netcopping doesn't
>> make you popular?
>>
>
> No. Google for 'propagation delay'.
>
>> >> In any case, any of these scenarios would easily cross the SPAM
>> >> threshold.
>> >
>> > Huh? Spam (Note that Hormel owns the trademark SPAM and has politely
>> > asked that we only use it (all caps) in reference to their product but
>> > they don't object to using spam (lower case) for unsolicited bulk
>> > email
>> > or frequently posted or widely posted UseNet articles. Since they are
>> > being good sports about it and have thus far only sued spammers for
>> > violating their trademark I encourage folks to honor that request.
>> > Most
>> > folks who use SPAM, incorrectly, for unsolicited bulk email or widely
>> > crossposted or frequently reposted UseNet articles just aren't aware
>> > of Hormel's position. Of course some folks are just pricks and won't
>> > cooperate but I digress.) would not be an issue in the scenario I
>> > suggested
>>
>> Are you really this ignorant?
>
> Not I, See: http://www.spam.com/ci/ci_in.htm
Yes, you.
>> >> > The quality of the articles is not the issue. It's the potential
>> >> > volume.
>> >>
>> >> When "potential" from this particular poster turns into "actual" then
>> >> I'd worry about it.
>> >> >
>> >
>> > Then it would be too late.
>> >
>> > See also: http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/wherefaq.html
>>
>> What of it?
>
> You were asking for asistance in locating group charters. I
> provided a link to help you out. I don;t mind helping newbies
> though I daresay most are a bit more pleasant than yourself.
If it was a link to anything having any relevance whatsoever to any topic
discussed in this thread it might have value. As for being pleasant, when
you quit behaving like a particularly obnoxious high school sophomore then
maybe you will be deserving of courtesy. As it is your efforts are to
pathetic to even be called trolling. More like looking at the fly-tying
supplies in the tackle shop and dreaming.
>
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 20:34:13 -0400, "Murf" <[email protected]>
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>He said he wanted to use a "hardwood"...isn't poplar a softwood?
I will put this gently. You are new here? This was a troll, for no
apparent reason, by people who should know better the replies are
simply sycophantic extensions of the original "joke".
On 4 Jul 2004 17:10:27 -0700, [email protected] (Bob) wrote:
>I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
>an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
>up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
>painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
>grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
>in this case? Thanks for any advice.
To reiterate:
The answer for painted projects is poplar.
It is very easy to work, is stable, and takes paint well.
The Mona Lisa was painted on poplar.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Mona_Lisa
It has held up OK.
Paul.
"Murf" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> He said he wanted to use a "hardwood"...isn't poplar a softwood?
>
Like balsa, poplar is a hardwood.
OTOH, Foug Fir and Southern Yellow Pine both softwoods, are both
harder than poplar.
The defintions of hardwood and softwood are objective though
abitrary in the sense that neither depends on the hardness
of the wood:
If it had leaves on it when it was alive, it is a hardwood.
If it had needles on it when it was alive it is a softrwood.
I suggest he not use balsa.
--
FF
"George" <george@least> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> And thus, the problem between "tulip" and real poplar again. Real poplar
> would work as well, but it is going to be fuzzier requiring one more
> sand-down.
>
> Depending on location, different woods will be available. I'd use bass or
> aspen (Poplar) ...
In the same vein, Aspen isn't real Poplar either. Real Poplar,
Aspen and Cottonwood can look quite a bit alike both
on the stump and by the board. I think Cottonwood is fuzzy too,
though the name comes form the cottony fluff that forms when it
'flowers' not the fibrousness of the wood.
The north American tulip tree is more closely related to magnolia
than to poplar and the one magnolia log I have seen looked a
lot like poplar (tulip).
--
FF
[email protected] (Jana) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Yes, everyone, I realize some would concider this spam. ...
Incorrectly IMHO, unless you widely crossposted or reposted it as
spam requires a bulk characteristic.
The article in question plainly falls in the category of a commercial
advertisement posted to a recreation newsgroup. On Usenet this
predates spam by a decade or so. E.g. it has been despised longer
than spam...
Some newsgroup charters permit comercial articles, others forbid
them, most newsgroup charters have long-been ignored since most
sys-admins long ago lost the authority to terminate users for charter
violations.
For that matter, few sysadmins are allowed to terminate users
for spam, hacking, identity theft, fraud, DDOS attacks or any
outright criminal activity. A typical internet miscreant these
days is hosted by an American Telecom where customer terminations
have to be approved by the sales department.
Ah for the good old days when sysadmins ruled the internet.
--
FF
[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 6 Jul 2004 23:59:23 -0700, [email protected] (Fred the Red
> Shirt) wrote:
>
> > Fir and Southern Yellow Pine both softwoods, are both
> >harder than poplar.
> >
> >The defintions of hardwood and softwood are objective though
> >abitrary in the sense that neither depends on the hardness
> >of the wood:
> >
> >If it had leaves on it when it was alive, it is a hardwood.
> >If it had needles on it when it was alive it is a softrwood.
>
>
> what about juniper? it's definitely a softwood, though it can be
> pretty hard and has neither leaves nor needles- though what it has is
> probably closer to leaves than needles....
Juniperus Virginiana (sp?) is pretty soft, and brittle, and toxic,
and beautiful. I haven't worked with any others.
--
FF
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>
> > ...
> >
> > For that matter, few sysadmins are allowed to terminate users
> > for spam, hacking, identity theft, fraud, DDOS attacks or any
> > outright criminal activity. A typical internet miscreant these
> > days is hosted by an American Telecom where customer terminations
> > have to be approved by the sales department.
> >
> > Ah for the good old days when sysadmins ruled the internet.
>
> I don't recall seeing a SPAM post hosted by any company called "American
> Telecom". Most of it seems to be hosted by overseas companies or submitted
> via anonymous remailer. See for example the current round of Simpsons crap
> that is hosted by MCI Canada.
>
> In point of fact the only time I can recall having any trouble getting a
> user terminated for egregious misbehavior was when he was hosted by
> Altopia. Finally ended up just killfiling the whole domain.
From: http://www.spamhaus.org/
Top 10 Spam Countries June 2004 (Based, i think, of volume of spam originating
from servers in that country)
1 United States
2 China
3 South Korea
4 Taiwan
5 Brazil
6 Canada
7 Argentina
8 Russia
9 Italy
10 Hong Kong
Top 10 Worst Spam ISPs June 2004
1 mci.com
2 kornet.net
3 savvis.net
4 chinanet-cq
5 chinanet-gd
6 above.net
7 comcast.net
8 interbusiness.it
9 level3.net
10 verizon.net
Note #1, 6, 7, 9, and 10 are US-based.
Top 10 ROKSO Spammers June 2004
1 Alan Ralsky
2 Scott Richter - Wholesalebandwidth
3 Alexey Panov - ckync.com
4 Yambo Financials
5 Phil Doroff / Five Elements, Inc
6 Eric Reinertsen
7 John Grandinetti / 321send.com
8 lmihosting.com
9 Robert Soloway - NIM
10 Pavka / Artofit
I recognize #1 and 2 as Americans, I'm sure a few more of the others
are as well.
See also the ROKSO list:
http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/index.lasso
I complained to Sprint about spam from Whitcon (Nick Allaby)
for about six months.
Then I escalated the complaints to two people in Sprint Management
whose email addresses I obtained courtesy of bitchlist.com. One
wrote back saying that she had referred to matter to Sprint abuse,
who had already failed to act on the 50 to 100 complaints I had
already sent to them. When the next Whitconspam was received, I
wrote to her again and then recieved a reply from [email protected],
the first such reply I had ever received, all of the rest had been
automated replies (e.g. auto-lies). Abuse.Sprint told me that
they had dealt with my complaint by passing it on to the spammer.
Evidently the abuse department at Sprint was still not authorized
to teminate Whitcon, one of the internets most notorious spammers.
One of the most persistan myths on the intenet is that ISPs have
trouble finding spammers. It is a damnlie. They don;pt hafve trouble
finding spammers, spammers find hem and buy internet service from them.
Not from all ISPs. But those that were formerly major telecoms are
the worst whereas some like AOL, and United Online maintain a huge
userbase and stay pretty damned clean
You can look up your ISP here to see which spammers they host:
http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/isp.lasso
I'd look it up for you but it looks like you are forging the
headers in your UseNet articles.
--
FF
[email protected] (Mutt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Jana: Your suggestion of soft maple as an alternative to poplar was
> not only good advice (some boards of lesser quality are sold as "paint
> grade"), but the ever so slight touting of your business was in good
> taste as well, and to this observer, not offensive at all. You were
> also very nice in your response, I'd have told them to go pound salt
> up their arse.......
>
> I'm now off to check out your site.
It falls into the category of a 'stealth' or 'drive-by ad'. As
you note, the article was a valid otpical contribution to the
discussion, with the commercial content slipped in at the end.
I didn't mind it either.
But, and it's big but, the issue is not whether or not I like the
article, it is whether or not that sort of thing is permitted by
the rec.woodworking charter.
Imagine if every one who sold woodworking related products contributed
to every thread so as to slip in an ad. Suppose every thread about
any tool carried by Sears would receive a polite, on-topic,
contribution from the tool department manager of every Sears in
North America. Ditto for wood finishes. Now suppose someone
from every Home Depot and Lowes did the same.
That is why most newsgroup charters strictly forbid commercial
postings. A common exception, for obvous reasons, is for sale
or wanted to buy/trade ads posted by regular contributers to
the groups, who plainly did not just post the ad and dissappear.
The quality of the articles is not the issue. It's the potential
volume.
--
FF
"George" <george@least> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Members of the Populus genus are, of course poplars, regardless of common
> names.
>
> http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/HardwoodNA/htmlDocs/populussp.html
>
Oh, yeah. A year or so ago someone else tried to educate me on that
point. Keep pounding away, you'll eventually get it through my
skull.
Thanks.
--
FF
[email protected] (Jana) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> >
> > The quality of the articles is not the issue. It's the potential
> > volume.
>
> Fred, One obvious differrence. I am not a huge chain. I own a small
> business
I don't see how the size of your business or how you operated it would
affect the number of commercial postings in a newsgraoup by other
persons.
That said, no one died and left me in charge of moderating
rec.woodworking. You opinon and mine don't matter.
The facts matter.
--
FF
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> WHINED in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>
>> >
> > I didn't mind it either.
>
> Then what are you bellyaching about?
>
> > But, and it's big but, the issue is not whether or not I like the
> > article, it is whether or not that sort of thing is permitted by
> > the rec.woodworking charter.
>
> I see. So you are laboring under the misconception that someone appointed
> you netcop
See UseNet mesage-ID: <[email protected]>
>
> In any case, any of these scenarios would easily cross the SPAM threshold.
Huh? Spam (Note that Hormel owns the trademark SPAM and has politely
asked that we only use it (all caps) in reference to their product but
they don't object to using spam (lower case) for unsolicited bulk
email
or frequently posted or widely posted UseNet articles. Since they are
being good sports about it and have thus far only sued spammers for
violating their trademark I encourage folks to honor that request.
Most
folks who use SPAM, incorrectly, for unsolicited bulk email or widely
crossposted or frequently reposted UseNet articles just aren't aware
of Hormel's position. Of course some folks are just pricks and won't
cooperate but I digress.) woudl not be an issue in the scenario I
suggested
> > The quality of the articles is not the issue. It's the potential
> > volume.
>
> When "potential" from this particular poster turns into "actual" then I'd
> worry about it.
> >
Then it would be too late.
See also: http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/wherefaq.html
--
FF
[email protected] (Mutt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm not inclined towards engaging in nor soliciting a big war here,
> but c'mon, Fred, there was nothing stealth or drive-by about this.
> Jana offered a solution (which happens to be IMHO a correct solution)
> to a query which, I also note, was seconded by several posters, and
> because she is in the biz, albeit a small biz (and for that matter,
> somewhere in the midwest if I also recall correctly) gave the poor guy
> an idea of the cost at her shop
That conforms to the definition of a stealth ad as I know it.
E.g. a stealth ad in a newsgroup is an on-topic article with
useful information, that includes a plug for a commercial product
or service offered by the author of the article.
Whether you like it or hate it, let's at least be honest about
what it is.
I do not see how the usefulness of the information or the popularity
of the author has anything to do with whether or not it was a
stealth ad.
Since Jana is a frequent contributor to the group, I'll agree that
it is not a drive-by ad.
I also agree that the article was not spam.
I also agree that there is little or nothing to be gained by
continuing this discussion, and it could rapidly erupt into
a flame war. I perdict that lots of peopl will disagree with
me on this last point...
--
FF
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>
> >
> > I'd look it up for you but it looks like you are forging the
> > headers in your UseNet articles.
>
> I am simply _dying_ to know your reasoning on that one.
You can check out the headers of your article here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=ccigsq0gmq40news1.newsguy.com&output=gplain
and then simply do a dns lookup on the domain name in your email
address.
--
FF
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>
> >> >
> > See UseNet mesage-ID: <[email protected]>
>
> Uh huh. Changed your tune when you found out that netcopping doesn't make
> you popular?
>
No. Google for 'propagation delay'.
> >> In any case, any of these scenarios would easily cross the SPAM
> >> threshold.
> >
> > Huh? Spam (Note that Hormel owns the trademark SPAM and has politely
> > asked that we only use it (all caps) in reference to their product but
> > they don't object to using spam (lower case) for unsolicited bulk
> > email
> > or frequently posted or widely posted UseNet articles. Since they are
> > being good sports about it and have thus far only sued spammers for
> > violating their trademark I encourage folks to honor that request.
> > Most
> > folks who use SPAM, incorrectly, for unsolicited bulk email or widely
> > crossposted or frequently reposted UseNet articles just aren't aware
> > of Hormel's position. Of course some folks are just pricks and won't
> > cooperate but I digress.) would not be an issue in the scenario I
> > suggested
>
> Are you really this ignorant?
Not I, See: http://www.spam.com/ci/ci_in.htm
>
> >> > The quality of the articles is not the issue. It's the potential
> >> > volume.
> >>
> >> When "potential" from this particular poster turns into "actual" then I'd
> >> worry about it.
> >> >
> >
> > Then it would be too late.
> >
> > See also: http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/wherefaq.html
>
> What of it?
You were asking for asistance in locating group charters. I
provided a link to help you out. I don;t mind helping newbies
though I daresay most are a bit more pleasant than yourself.
--
FF
"Stephen M" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > I also agree that there is little or nothing to be gained by
> > continuing this discussion,
>
> No.
>
> >and it could rapidly erupt into a flame war.
>
> It the risk of sounding childish *you* already started it.
Just a reminder: <[email protected]>
> > I perdict that lots of people will disagree with
> > me on this last point...
>
> Yes.
>
> The only thing I have to add is my "vote" to reassure jana his/her?
> contribution is appreciated. Your implication that her/his response was spam
> is unwarranted bashing in my book.
Your accusation is unfounded. I said it was NOT spam.
--
FF
Troll
also posts to shooting groups.
"Trishia Rose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Jana) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (Bob) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > > I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> > > an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> > > up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> > > painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> > > grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> > > in this case? Thanks for any advice.
> >
> > Hello,
> > Soft or silver maple is what I would suggest for durability and
> > paintablity. It's also inexpensive. $1.80 per bf (nice wide boards)
> > plus shipping (normally about a buck a ft.) from us if you can't get
> > it locally. www.hartzellwoodstock.bigstep.com
>
> Way to spoil an innocent newsgroup with your not-so-well-hidden
> self-promoting advertisements, you overweight fiend. If I wanted to
> hear about how your amazing company can save me money, I'd freaking go
> to the Gator site and start purposefully downloading adware. I hope
> your business burns to the ground.
"Bob" wrote in message
> I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> in this case? Thanks for any advice.
Poplar.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/15/04
Scarfinger <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 4 Jul 2004 17:10:27 -0700, [email protected] (Bob) wrote:
>
>>I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
>>an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
>>up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
>>painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
>>grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
>>in this case? Thanks for any advice.
>
> To reiterate:
>
> The answer for painted projects is poplar.
> It is very easy to work, is stable, and takes paint well.
>
> The Mona Lisa was painted on poplar.
> http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Mona_Lisa
>
> It has held up OK.
But that's Lombardy Poplar. <G> And the cite you gave says it's
deteriorating pretty fast.
>
> Paul.
>
I like rock (or sometimes called hard) maple for these types of
projects. The cost is generally half again that for poplar but it
usually doesn't phase me when I am spending it on myself ...
Bob wrote:
> I'm building a built-in bookcase in my 1940s house. I'd like to use
> an inexpensive hardwood that is easy to work with but that will hold
> up well over time. To match the decor, I'll (unfortunately) be
> painting the bookcase so many of my usual considerations about color,
> grain, etc. aren't relevant here. What wood do people suggest using
> in this case? Thanks for any advice.