While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
have changed over the years. I still have and still
use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
to lose - yet.
I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
so many other things, they've become disposable/
consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
find useful and valuable?
charlie b
ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
in my heart for Festool's saber saw
AND plunge router and one of their cute
little vacuum cleaner things
charlie b wrote:
> While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
> porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
> Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
> for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
> have changed over the years. I still have and still
> use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
> circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
> to lose - yet.
>
> I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
> have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
> be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
> versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
> better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
> inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
> so many other things, they've become disposable/
> consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
> grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
> find useful and valuable?
>
Maybe nothing. I read earlier today that the new plasma TVs, LCD
monitors and similar devices can be expected to last no more than seven
years, compared to a strongly probable 20 years for CRT TVs and
monitors. I've got one CRT monitor upstairs that is past the decade
mark--I bought the thing as a refurb about 6-7 years ago, when it was
4-5 years old. It shows no signs of problems yet.
As life expectancy rises, product life falls. Just think of the extra
profits!
B a r r y wrote:
> Charlie Self wrote:
>
> > I've got one CRT monitor upstairs that is past the decade
> > mark--I bought the thing as a refurb about 6-7 years ago, when it
was
> > 4-5 years old. It shows no signs of problems yet.
>
> My "new" TV is 22 years old. <G>
Yeah. Our el cheapo that went out a few years ago had replaced one my
wife had for upwards of 15 years. The el cheapo lasted about 12. This
one was even cheaper and uglier, so will probably last 20+.
Joe wrote:
> When I bought a plasma a few years ago the half life was rated at
> 25,0000 hours of on time. I think todays models are even longer. 7
year
> life would be something like 8 hours a day each and every day. I
can't
> even imagine wasting that much time watching the boob tube.
> Joey
You and I can't, but the big TV (I dunno, 61", 72"?) in my SIL's house
stays on from get up to get down or longer. I do not recall ever
walking in the house when the idjit box wasn't on. Whether or not
anyone's watching, though someone usually is. IMO, that's pitiful, but
I've found it's also not unusual. Those of us who watch an hour or two
a day, some days are not your average TV watcher (my TV set still
works--I watched the last quarter-final of Jeopardy last night, after
not turning it on for three or four days...I haven't watched a prime
time show in a decade or so: even the ads are repellent).
Upscale wrote:
> "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > works--I watched the last quarter-final of Jeopardy last night,
after
> > not turning it on for three or four days...I haven't watched a
prime
> > time show in a decade or so: even the ads are repellent).
>
> No woodworking shows Charlie? How about the news? Or, do both of
those not
> qualify as 'prime time'?
No cable or satellite, so no woodworking shows. If there's something I
really want to see, a friend tapes it for me. He's used one tape in the
past 11 months.
I do watch the news, but it mostly makes me whimper. Too selective in
reporting in the big three, while Fox is so biased as to be asinine.
Old Nick wrote:
> On 16 May 2005 11:51:29 -0700, "Charlie Self" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> But they HAD to do that to counteract the falloing birthrate / new
> market appearances.
>
> >As life expectancy rises, product life falls. Just think of the
extra
> >profits!
Heh!
Funny thing is, at least until recently, cars had moved in the other
direction. When I was a kid, 100,000 miles was uncommon, tires last
12,000 to 15,000 miles, shocks came from the factory just about worn
out, and rust started eating the finish the day the vehicle rolled
outdoors. Today, anyone who doesn't get 150,000 miles without major
repairs feels as if he's been screwed--and he has. Tires last 40,000 to
60,000 miles. Rust is seldoom a problem inside a decade, shocks are
much better overall and last over 50,000 miles.
Just a few small points that I can illustrate from my own life: my '50
Studebaker had some great features--a hill holder was foremost--but the
engine was a POS, a six cylinder that ate rod bearings because of
crankshaft slop, caused by poor design; any mid-'50s Ford ever made
with rocker panels that rusted out inside of two years; a spun main
bearing on a 1966 Plymouth Barracuda that I was told was common;
whiplash problems in the distributor of a '68 Barracude 340S, which
also came from the factory with wide oval tires that lastaed about 8000
miles. Warranty: tough shit jack. You bought it. It's yours. Don't
bother us.
In article <[email protected]>,
Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ...I haven't watched a prime
>time show in a decade or so: even the ads are repellent).
>
"Television is a medium.
Proof:
It is not rare.
It is not well done."
<grin>
Mike in Mystic wrote:
> My set of Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Adrias, Blue Spurce Toolworks, Knight
> Toolworks, etc. hand tools. And I'd hope my Unisaw, and other stationary
> tools will still be around. As for routers/drills/etc., those probably ARE
> consumables at this point, if not quite in the commodity range (although
> closing in).
I just had this discussion with a nice lady at Home Desperate.
she was trying to figure out what to get for her husband who just
retired. Ex shop teacher who now needed to use his OWN tools. We
talked brands, tailed v non-tailed and beef powered. I expect my
neander tools to be around another hundred+ years, I doubt my
normite ones will outlast me. Hell, I'll bet against it, just try
to make me pay up. %-) My daughter says my quiet tools are her
inheritance, she's prbably right.
Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/
Odinn wrote:
snip
> Unfortunately, my son has no interest in woodworking, no interest in
> mechanics, no interest in..... Hmmm, what is he interested in? Females,
> and that's about it. None of my 4 daughters have any interest in my
> tools, but my youngest two want my Harley. I guess all my stuff will
> end up in a yard sale.
>
Don't give up on him yet. My oldest, who showed absolutely no
interested in woodworking of any sort is now building his mother
a house and working on his contractor's license. My youngest,
out of the clear blue, asked if I'd show him how to make a pair
of cabinets for his LPs collection. We collaborated on the design,
he picked out the materials, I did the set ups for the parts
making but he did the actual work. One of them is bound to
want to move my 1100 pound Robland X31 combination machine
(and no, it's nothing like s ShopSmith), 165 pound mortising
machine and maybe the 300 pounds of hand tools in my two
wall hanging tool cabinets.
Maybe one of the neighborhood kids who spent time in
the shop during the summers making magic wands,
D-8 Catapiller tractors, treasure/jewerly boxes,
paddle wheel boats or wooden puppets will, as adults,
want some of the tools they remember using as a kid.
Turn on a power tool in a neighborhood during the
summer and you'll have kids in the shop in no time.
What really worries me is what will become of the special
wood stash I may not get to in this lifetime - wide poplar
boards with PURPLE heartwood, the beautifully figured quilted
maple plank I call Mae West because she's brash and
flamboyant, the Bear Glawed spruce, the 14" wide, 12 foot
long book matched "Mexican Mahogany" boards, the 8/4
spalted maple plank . . .
Bottom line for me is not what happens to the tools, or,
for that matter, anything I made - but rather how long
the memories last of the making and using. The "stuff"
are merely postcards from the journey. It's the memories
of the journey that are what's valuable.
Every day we make memories - for ourselves and for
others. Good ones aren't that hard to create.
charlie b
Australopithecus scobis wrote:
> But it only gets one channel? :)
Does it wake you up with Goooood Morning?
Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/
Odinn wrote:
> Yup, that's my fear. I just found out the amount and size of trees I'm
> going to be milling, and there is NO WAY I can haul it all in one shot.
>
> 3 trees 10" diameter, ~30 ft
> 3 trees 12" diameter, ~40 ft
> 2 trees 14" diameter, ~40 ft
> 2 trees 16" diameter, ~50 ft
>
> Good thing my FIL has a large garage/shed (40x40) so I can stack a lot
> of this away for a trip later on. Now I need to find someone with a
> kiln, since I'm in the middle of some landscaping and don't have a place
> to build my own yet.
You don't *have* to have a kiln, sitcker and air-dry the wood.
Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/
> Dave in Fairfax wrote:
> > You don't *have* to have a kiln, sitcker and air-dry the wood.
Odinn wrote:
> Yes, but that means 1-2 years waiting to use the wood :(
Very true. OTOH, if you have *pretty* wood, Air drying will keep
it pretty, KD will make it less so, at least in my opinion. It
does take time, but I've gotten used to that doing turning. It
isn't fun, but it's frequently worth it. YMMV.
Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/
Odinn wrote:
> Maybe I can kiln dry enough to redo the kitchen with this year and air
> dry the rest to do the entertainment center with next year. With the
> amount that I'm going to be milling, I should have plenty to work with
> for the next few years anyway :)
That'd work. I guess if the cost of KD'g is by the bf, it would
make a big difference. OTOH, if it's a flat fee or your own kiln,
it might not make that much of a difference. Get a cheap moisture
tester and see what it's like, that alone might help make up your
mind. Regardless, you've got a bunch of wood for the price of
extra gas.
Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/
mac davis wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2005 21:25:26 -0500, Patriarch <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>charlie b <[email protected]> wrote in news:4288E2A9.53C7
>>@accesscom.com:
>>
>><snip of some good stuff, as usual>
>>
>>>If so, what is the grand kid, or great
>>>grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
>>>find useful and valuable?
>>>
>>>charlie b
>>
>>The stuff you make with those tools, the care that went into that, and the
>>time you take with the grandkid is what is going to be useful and valuable.
>>
>>But you knew that already.
>>
>>
>>>ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
>>> in my heart for Festool's saber saw
>>> AND plunge router and one of their cute
>>> little vacuum cleaner things
>>
>>So crack open the wallet, and buy some of that stuff. There's gonna be a
>>hell of a yard sale sometime in the future for each of us, or our estates,
>>anyhow.
>>
>>Patriarch
>
>
> You know, I really hope that in my case, that there are no tools in the yard
> sale..
> As much time as the kids have spent in the shop on their little projects, I'd
> hope that they'd want our tools and might even use them..
Unfortunately, my son has no interest in woodworking, no interest in
mechanics, no interest in..... Hmmm, what is he interested in? Females,
and that's about it. None of my 4 daughters have any interest in my
tools, but my youngest two want my Harley. I guess all my stuff will
end up in a yard sale.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
charlie b wrote:
> Odinn wrote:
>
> snip
>
>
>>Unfortunately, my son has no interest in woodworking, no interest in
>>mechanics, no interest in..... Hmmm, what is he interested in? Females,
>>and that's about it. None of my 4 daughters have any interest in my
>>tools, but my youngest two want my Harley. I guess all my stuff will
>>end up in a yard sale.
>>
>
>
> Don't give up on him yet.
I already did, he joined the Marines 4 years ago :)
> My oldest, who showed absolutely no
> interested in woodworking of any sort is now building his mother
> a house and working on his contractor's license. My youngest,
> out of the clear blue, asked if I'd show him how to make a pair
> of cabinets for his LPs collection. We collaborated on the design,
> he picked out the materials, I did the set ups for the parts
> making but he did the actual work. One of them is bound to
> want to move my 1100 pound Robland X31 combination machine
> (and no, it's nothing like s ShopSmith), 165 pound mortising
> machine and maybe the 300 pounds of hand tools in my two
> wall hanging tool cabinets.
>
> Maybe one of the neighborhood kids who spent time in
> the shop during the summers making magic wands,
> D-8 Catapiller tractors, treasure/jewerly boxes,
> paddle wheel boats or wooden puppets will, as adults,
> want some of the tools they remember using as a kid.
> Turn on a power tool in a neighborhood during the
> summer and you'll have kids in the shop in no time.
I don't have a neighborhood, my closest neighbor is 150 ft away thru the
woods, and I like it like that :)
>
> What really worries me is what will become of the special
> wood stash I may not get to in this lifetime - wide poplar
> boards with PURPLE heartwood, the beautifully figured quilted
> maple plank I call Mae West because she's brash and
> flamboyant, the Bear Glawed spruce, the 14" wide, 12 foot
> long book matched "Mexican Mahogany" boards, the 8/4
> spalted maple plank . . .
I'm trying to get my own collection going. I'm off to Chesapeake VA to
my Father-in-law's house for Memorial Day weekend to cut up some maples
and other trees and have milled. I know there are at least 4 trees, and
the smallest one is about 20" in diameter. Milling it all up and
hauling back as much as my pickemup will hold, stacking the rest of it
to pick up at some later time.
>
> Bottom line for me is not what happens to the tools, or,
> for that matter, anything I made - but rather how long
> the memories last of the making and using. The "stuff"
> are merely postcards from the journey. It's the memories
> of the journey that are what's valuable.
My memory is so bad, I'm lucky to remember what I had for breakfast,
much less what project I built :)
>
> Every day we make memories - for ourselves and for
> others. Good ones aren't that hard to create.
Yeah, I hope someone remembers the things I do, good, bad, or indifferent :)
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
Patriarch wrote:
> Odinn <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>>I'm trying to get my own collection going. I'm off to Chesapeake VA
>>to my Father-in-law's house for Memorial Day weekend to cut up some
>>maples and other trees and have milled. I know there are at least 4
>>trees, and the smallest one is about 20" in diameter. Milling it all
>>up and hauling back as much as my pickemup will hold, stacking the
>>rest of it to pick up at some later time.
>
>
> 18 months ago, some friends & I did a 9' Western Red Cedar, 2" slabs, for a
> Boy Scout project. The weight was quite surprising. I drove two miles
> very carefully with that load.
>
> As my trucking friends would say: "You'll likely gross out before you cube
> out."
>
> Maybe consider a trailer of some sort?
>
I'll be pulling my 6x10 5000lb trailer as well. My Dodge Ram 1500 has
pulled a 10,000 lb load with no problem many times, so I'm pretty sure
I'll be able to haul a good bit of it. I don't expect to be able to
stack the bed that full (besides, the wife needs some space left in the
back to put her 2 huge suitcases for the weekend).
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
mac davis wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:18:13 -0400, Odinn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Patriarch wrote:
>>
>>>Odinn <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm trying to get my own collection going. I'm off to Chesapeake VA
>>>>to my Father-in-law's house for Memorial Day weekend to cut up some
>>>>maples and other trees and have milled. I know there are at least 4
>>>>trees, and the smallest one is about 20" in diameter. Milling it all
>>>>up and hauling back as much as my pickemup will hold, stacking the
>>>>rest of it to pick up at some later time.
>>>
>>>
>>>18 months ago, some friends & I did a 9' Western Red Cedar, 2" slabs, for a
>>>Boy Scout project. The weight was quite surprising. I drove two miles
>>>very carefully with that load.
>>>
>>>As my trucking friends would say: "You'll likely gross out before you cube
>>>out."
>>>
>>>Maybe consider a trailer of some sort?
>>>
>>
>>I'll be pulling my 6x10 5000lb trailer as well. My Dodge Ram 1500 has
>>pulled a 10,000 lb load with no problem many times, so I'm pretty sure
>>I'll be able to haul a good bit of it. I don't expect to be able to
>>stack the bed that full (besides, the wife needs some space left in the
>>back to put her 2 huge suitcases for the weekend).
>
>
> if she packs like my wife does, that will be heavier than the lumber..
>
Yup, that's my fear. I just found out the amount and size of trees I'm
going to be milling, and there is NO WAY I can haul it all in one shot.
3 trees 10" diameter, ~30 ft
3 trees 12" diameter, ~40 ft
2 trees 14" diameter, ~40 ft
2 trees 16" diameter, ~50 ft
Good thing my FIL has a large garage/shed (40x40) so I can stack a lot
of this away for a trip later on. Now I need to find someone with a
kiln, since I'm in the middle of some landscaping and don't have a place
to build my own yet.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
Dave in Fairfax wrote:
> Odinn wrote:
>
>>Yup, that's my fear. I just found out the amount and size of trees I'm
>>going to be milling, and there is NO WAY I can haul it all in one shot.
>>
>>3 trees 10" diameter, ~30 ft
>>3 trees 12" diameter, ~40 ft
>>2 trees 14" diameter, ~40 ft
>>2 trees 16" diameter, ~50 ft
>>
>>Good thing my FIL has a large garage/shed (40x40) so I can stack a lot
>>of this away for a trip later on. Now I need to find someone with a
>>kiln, since I'm in the middle of some landscaping and don't have a place
>>to build my own yet.
>
>
> You don't *have* to have a kiln, sitcker and air-dry the wood.
>
Yes, but that means 1-2 years waiting to use the wood :(
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
Patriarch wrote:
> Odinn <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> <snip>
>
>>Yup, that's my fear. I just found out the amount and size of trees
>>I'm going to be milling, and there is NO WAY I can haul it all in one
>>shot.
>>
>>3 trees 10" diameter, ~30 ft
>>3 trees 12" diameter, ~40 ft
>>2 trees 14" diameter, ~40 ft
>>2 trees 16" diameter, ~50 ft
>>
>>Good thing my FIL has a large garage/shed (40x40) so I can stack a lot
>>of this away for a trip later on. Now I need to find someone with a
>>kiln, since I'm in the middle of some landscaping and don't have a
>>place to build my own yet.
>>
>
>
> The longer you can leave it stacked, stickered and properly ventilated, the
> less weight you have to manage, handle and transport.
>
> There's a fellow hangs out here who's often pointing folks to the USFS wood
> site, for solid info on drying various species. My guess is that George
> will be around soon. I don't have it bookmarked, but he does. Otherwise,
> a Google search will show it.
>
> When you are paying $2.50/gal for fuel, you want to haul as little water as
> practical.
I don't have much choice in hauling as much of it as I can, since my FIL
doesn't have a lot of space to store it in. The trees have been down
for about 9 months, so there is already been some drying (although, not
very much). I'm not overly worried about the gas cost, since I'm
already driving up there and back anyway, so it'll only cost me slightly
more for the trip than it would without the wood coming back (500 miles
in my truck already costs me about 40 gallons unloaded, loaded it will
only cost me about 45-50 gallons).
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
Dave in Fairfax wrote:
>>Dave in Fairfax wrote:
>>
>>>You don't *have* to have a kiln, sitcker and air-dry the wood.
>
> Odinn wrote:
>
>>Yes, but that means 1-2 years waiting to use the wood :(
>
>
> Very true. OTOH, if you have *pretty* wood, Air drying will keep
> it pretty, KD will make it less so, at least in my opinion. It
> does take time, but I've gotten used to that doing turning. It
> isn't fun, but it's frequently worth it. YMMV.
>
Maybe I can kiln dry enough to redo the kitchen with this year and air
dry the rest to do the entertainment center with next year. With the
amount that I'm going to be milling, I should have plenty to work with
for the next few years anyway :)
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
Dave in Fairfax wrote:
> Odinn wrote:
>
>>Maybe I can kiln dry enough to redo the kitchen with this year and air
>>dry the rest to do the entertainment center with next year. With the
>>amount that I'm going to be milling, I should have plenty to work with
>>for the next few years anyway :)
>
>
> That'd work. I guess if the cost of KD'g is by the bf, it would
> make a big difference. OTOH, if it's a flat fee or your own kiln,
> it might not make that much of a difference. Get a cheap moisture
> tester and see what it's like, that alone might help make up your
> mind. Regardless, you've got a bunch of wood for the price of
> extra gas.
>
Well, the price of the extra gas and the cost of having someone bring
out a portable sawmill ($55 hr, 3 hr minimum). Either way, it is
cheaper than I could have bought it for :)
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
Andrew Barss wrote:
> Patriarch <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> : We have gotten to the point that mt wife & I watch almost nothing that
> : doesn't get captured through TiVo first.
>
>
> Us too. TiVo really changed our viewing life completely. An amazing
> product --
I now get to watch good TV (History, Discovery, DIY) at a time that is
convenient to me instead of whatever is on when I have time (which
usually means nothing). I love my 2 TiVos.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
Upscale wrote:
> "Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>Well, the price of the extra gas and the cost of having someone bring
>>out a portable sawmill ($55 hr, 3 hr minimum). Either way, it is
>>cheaper than I could have bought it for :)
>
>
> For that cost, you could even do it yourself if you have access to a
> chainsaw and one of the following accessories.
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=51216&cat=1,41131,41139
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=20126&cat=1,41131,41139
>
>
Problem isn't access to a chainsaw (I have something similar to the
second one, but I do like the first one a lot better, I might just order
one), it's time. I have 1 3-day weekend to drive 500 miles, cut the
trees into logs, mill them and drive back 500 miles with as much as I
can carry.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> No cable or satellite, so no woodworking shows. If there's something I
> really want to see, a friend tapes it for me. He's used one tape in the
> past 11 months.
In all honesty, that makes me jealous in a way. If I was in the same
situation, I'd eventually get over the lack of Television, find something
else to do and be all the happier for it.
I'm not following your logic. The length of a warranty is not
proportional to the longevity of an item. It's more of a business
decision than an indicator of how long some item will last. The
exception to that would be items such as batteries, tires, mattresses,
etc that have a projected life span and come with a pro-rated warranty
to provide relief to the consumer should the item fail before the
warranty period has elapsed. Those types of items are more like
consumables. Batteries ALWAYS fail at some point. Tires wear out.
Mattresses sag. I've got a radio that still works fine. Guess where I
bought it. In the BX at Bien Hoa, Vietnam in 1969. The warranty was 90
days. :)
Dave
charlie b wrote:
> While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
> porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
> Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
> for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
> have changed over the years. I still have and still
> use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
> circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
> to lose - yet.
>
> I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
> have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
> be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
> versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
> better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
> inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
> so many other things, they've become disposable/
> consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
> grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
> find useful and valuable?
>
> charlie b
>
> ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
> in my heart for Festool's saber saw
> AND plunge router and one of their cute
> little vacuum cleaner things
On Mon, 16 May 2005 14:05:03 -0700, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm not following your logic. The length of a warranty is not
>proportional to the longevity of an item. It's more of a business
>decision than an indicator of how long some item will last. The
>exception to that would be items such as batteries, tires, mattresses,
>etc that have a projected life span and come with a pro-rated warranty
>to provide relief to the consumer should the item fail before the
>warranty period has elapsed. Those types of items are more like
>consumables. Batteries ALWAYS fail at some point. Tires wear out.
>Mattresses sag. I've got a radio that still works fine. Guess where I
>bought it. In the BX at Bien Hoa, Vietnam in 1969. The warranty was 90
>days. :)
>
>Dave
>
I think that a lot of companies sell junk by adding a long or lifetime warranty
to it..
In reality, most folks DON'T follow up on warranties or even bother registering
the product.. and it's not a secret in the industry..
I buy a lot of stuff from Harbor Freight... ever read their "life time"
warranty?
Pretty much says that if you think it's their fault, mail it to them for
evaluation.. if they think it's you're fault, you're screwed... if they think
it's their fault, they fix or replace, their choice...
How many people are going to go through that much hassle for a $20 angle grinder
that dies?
It's like taking a hamster to the vet.. they'll tell you to get a new hamster..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:12:57 -0700, charlie b <[email protected]> wrote:
>While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
>porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
>Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
>for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
>have changed over the years. I still have and still
>use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
>circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
>to lose - yet.
>
>I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
>have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
>be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
>versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
>better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
>inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
>so many other things, they've become disposable/
>consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
>grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
>find useful and valuable?
>
>charlie b
welcome to the new generation of tools:
End-to-end warranty coverage for the life of the tool...
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:18:13 -0400, Odinn <[email protected]> wrote:
>Patriarch wrote:
>> Odinn <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>>I'm trying to get my own collection going. I'm off to Chesapeake VA
>>>to my Father-in-law's house for Memorial Day weekend to cut up some
>>>maples and other trees and have milled. I know there are at least 4
>>>trees, and the smallest one is about 20" in diameter. Milling it all
>>>up and hauling back as much as my pickemup will hold, stacking the
>>>rest of it to pick up at some later time.
>>
>>
>> 18 months ago, some friends & I did a 9' Western Red Cedar, 2" slabs, for a
>> Boy Scout project. The weight was quite surprising. I drove two miles
>> very carefully with that load.
>>
>> As my trucking friends would say: "You'll likely gross out before you cube
>> out."
>>
>> Maybe consider a trailer of some sort?
>>
>
>I'll be pulling my 6x10 5000lb trailer as well. My Dodge Ram 1500 has
>pulled a 10,000 lb load with no problem many times, so I'm pretty sure
>I'll be able to haul a good bit of it. I don't expect to be able to
>stack the bed that full (besides, the wife needs some space left in the
>back to put her 2 huge suitcases for the weekend).
if she packs like my wife does, that will be heavier than the lumber..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
<g> It's a bit more generous stateside, although I do listen to only
one radio station in my area.
Dave
Australopithecus scobis wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2005 14:05:03 -0700, David wrote:
>
>
>> In the BX at Bien Hoa, Vietnam in 1969. The warranty was 90
>>days. :)
>
>
> But it only gets one channel? :)
>
>
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> works--I watched the last quarter-final of Jeopardy last night, after
> not turning it on for three or four days...I haven't watched a prime
> time show in a decade or so: even the ads are repellent).
No woodworking shows Charlie? How about the news? Or, do both of those not
qualify as 'prime time'?
"Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Well, the price of the extra gas and the cost of having someone bring
> out a portable sawmill ($55 hr, 3 hr minimum). Either way, it is
> cheaper than I could have bought it for :)
For that cost, you could even do it yourself if you have access to a
chainsaw and one of the following accessories.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=51216&cat=1,41131,41139
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=20126&cat=1,41131,41139
charlie b wrote:
> While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
> porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
> Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
> for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
> have changed over the years. I still have and still
> use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
> circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
> to lose - yet.
>
> I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
> have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
> be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
> versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
> better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
> inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
> so many other things, they've become disposable/
> consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
> grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
> find useful and valuable?
>
> charlie b
>
> ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
> in my heart for Festool's saber saw
> AND plunge router and one of their cute
> little vacuum cleaner things
And keep in mind that guarantees, warrantees, swap-it-for-a-new-one if
it breaks, etc. are actuarial decisions. In other words, how cheaply
can we make this blurfl and still make money with this or that type of
guarantee AND maintain our reputation at the same time.
Sears wrenches are a decent product that will make money even though a
few will be returned now and again. Their customer base is the
non-professional homeowner who uses them now and again. Snap-On is a
better tool for the professional mechanic who uses and abuses it daily.
Skil vs. Bosch. Or PC vs B&D. Where will Delta end up? Sigh.
spasm,
jo4hn
charlie b <[email protected]> wrote in news:4288E2A9.53C7
@accesscom.com:
<snip of some good stuff, as usual>
> If so, what is the grand kid, or great
> grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
> find useful and valuable?
>
> charlie b
The stuff you make with those tools, the care that went into that, and the
time you take with the grandkid is what is going to be useful and valuable.
But you knew that already.
>
> ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
> in my heart for Festool's saber saw
> AND plunge router and one of their cute
> little vacuum cleaner things
So crack open the wallet, and buy some of that stuff. There's gonna be a
hell of a yard sale sometime in the future for each of us, or our estates,
anyhow.
Patriarch
Odinn <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
<snip>
> I'm trying to get my own collection going. I'm off to Chesapeake VA
> to my Father-in-law's house for Memorial Day weekend to cut up some
> maples and other trees and have milled. I know there are at least 4
> trees, and the smallest one is about 20" in diameter. Milling it all
> up and hauling back as much as my pickemup will hold, stacking the
> rest of it to pick up at some later time.
18 months ago, some friends & I did a 9' Western Red Cedar, 2" slabs, for a
Boy Scout project. The weight was quite surprising. I drove two miles
very carefully with that load.
As my trucking friends would say: "You'll likely gross out before you cube
out."
Maybe consider a trailer of some sort?
Patriarch
Fly-by-Night CC <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<severe snippage of a bunch of valid posts>
> My wife and I are getting to the point of stating "no TV other than
> PBS." I can't think of any evening show that hasn't made us cringe on
> occasion while watching as a family.
We have gotten to the point that mt wife & I watch almost nothing that
doesn't get captured through TiVo first. Even relatively decent content is
often contaminated by inane, offensive commercials, often for material to
be broadcast on channels in which we have absolutely no interest.
And 44 minutes to view a 60 minute program has its benefits as well.
Baseball without beer commercials becomes watchable. Zipping through the
last three innings, with 4 pitching changes per team, becomes almost
realistic, before falling asleep. Or not.
TiVo with sattelite works for us. 6 'local' PBS channels, + Discovery's
full suite. YMMV.
Patriarch
Odinn <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
<snip>
> Yup, that's my fear. I just found out the amount and size of trees
> I'm going to be milling, and there is NO WAY I can haul it all in one
> shot.
>
> 3 trees 10" diameter, ~30 ft
> 3 trees 12" diameter, ~40 ft
> 2 trees 14" diameter, ~40 ft
> 2 trees 16" diameter, ~50 ft
>
> Good thing my FIL has a large garage/shed (40x40) so I can stack a lot
> of this away for a trip later on. Now I need to find someone with a
> kiln, since I'm in the middle of some landscaping and don't have a
> place to build my own yet.
>
The longer you can leave it stacked, stickered and properly ventilated, the
less weight you have to manage, handle and transport.
There's a fellow hangs out here who's often pointing folks to the USFS wood
site, for solid info on drying various species. My guess is that George
will be around soon. I don't have it bookmarked, but he does. Otherwise,
a Google search will show it.
When you are paying $2.50/gal for fuel, you want to haul as little water as
practical.
Patriarch
You mention the people don't 'bother registering the product' with the
implication that registering activates the warrantee. I had taken an
industrial engineering class and the prof said that warrantees are
activated with the purchase event. The sales receipt not the Registration
Card (regardless of what it says) activates the warrantee. He said that the
Registration Card is actually a clever manufacturing control to monitor how
long it takes a product to go from factory loading dock to consumer's hands.
He said that factories like constant, consistent production schedules to
optimize efficiency. But factory output is usually sold at wholesale and
typically volume discounts apply. A wholesaler could purchase a large
volume (to get a favorable volume price) and then just store the product in
a warehouse. Meanwhile, the factory had to create temporary, extra capacity
(work overtime, new temporary production lines, etc.) to meet the production
commitment. The factory becomes inefficient because of the price advantage
it make to the wholesaler and not the consumer demand for its product. The
Registration Card is the way the factory knows that the product has finally
made its way to a retail customer. The factory can analyze the registration
information to determine if the wholesaler is hording the product. This
information could influence the factory's willingness to offer volume
discounts to wholesalers.
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 16 May 2005 14:05:03 -0700, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I'm not following your logic. The length of a warranty is not
>>proportional to the longevity of an item. It's more of a business
>>decision than an indicator of how long some item will last. The
>>exception to that would be items such as batteries, tires, mattresses,
>>etc that have a projected life span and come with a pro-rated warranty
>>to provide relief to the consumer should the item fail before the
>>warranty period has elapsed. Those types of items are more like
>>consumables. Batteries ALWAYS fail at some point. Tires wear out.
>>Mattresses sag. I've got a radio that still works fine. Guess where I
>>bought it. In the BX at Bien Hoa, Vietnam in 1969. The warranty was 90
>>days. :)
>>
>>Dave
>>
> I think that a lot of companies sell junk by adding a long or lifetime
> warranty
> to it..
> In reality, most folks DON'T follow up on warranties or even bother
> registering
> the product.. and it's not a secret in the industry..
>
> I buy a lot of stuff from Harbor Freight... ever read their "life time"
> warranty?
> Pretty much says that if you think it's their fault, mail it to them for
> evaluation.. if they think it's you're fault, you're screwed... if they
> think
> it's their fault, they fix or replace, their choice...
> How many people are going to go through that much hassle for a $20 angle
> grinder
> that dies?
> It's like taking a hamster to the vet.. they'll tell you to get a new
> hamster..
>
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing
On Wed, 18 May 2005 11:09:40 -0500, Patriarch
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Fly-by-Night CC <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
><severe snippage of a bunch of valid posts>
>
>> My wife and I are getting to the point of stating "no TV other than
>> PBS." I can't think of any evening show that hasn't made us cringe on
>> occasion while watching as a family.
>
>We have gotten to the point that mt wife & I watch almost nothing that
>doesn't get captured through TiVo first. Even relatively decent content is
>often contaminated by inane, offensive commercials, often for material to
>be broadcast on channels in which we have absolutely no interest.
>
Latest really-stupid commercial observed during the nightly news. Some
car commercial with a bunch of cars driving around with tails in the air
and only front tires on the ground. Background voiceover intones, "get a
car that uses all 4 wheels (or something to that effect)" as the car being
advertised goes zipping around all the cars driving on their front tires
only. Really, really, stupid CYA legalese pigeon-dropping: "professional
drivers on closed course" uh-huh.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On 16 May 2005 11:51:29 -0700, "Charlie Self" <[email protected]>
wrote:
But they HAD to do that to counteract the falloing birthrate / new
market appearances.
>As life expectancy rises, product life falls. Just think of the extra
>profits!
"Jim Giblin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a_1je.13181$4d6.8345@trndny04...
> You mention the people don't 'bother registering the product' with the
> implication that registering activates the warrantee. I had taken an
> industrial engineering class and the prof said that warrantees are
> activated with the purchase event. The sales receipt not the Registration
> Card (regardless of what it says) activates the warrantee. He said that
> the Registration Card is actually a clever manufacturing control to
> monitor how long it takes a product to go from factory loading dock to
> consumer's hands. He said that factories like constant, consistent
> production schedules to optimize efficiency. But factory output is
> usually sold at wholesale and typically volume discounts apply. A
> wholesaler could purchase a large volume (to get a favorable volume price)
> and then just store the product in a warehouse. Meanwhile, the factory
> had to create temporary, extra capacity (work overtime, new temporary
> production lines, etc.) to meet the production commitment. The factory
> becomes inefficient because of the price advantage it make to the
> wholesaler and not the consumer demand for its product. The Registration
> Card is the way the factory knows that the product has finally made its
> way to a retail customer. The factory can analyze the registration
> information to determine if the wholesaler is hording the product. This
> information could influence the factory's willingness to offer volume
> discounts to wholesalers.
also a good way to get addresses for spam
i recently purchased a large screen jvc. i never send in warrantee cards,
but they still tracked me down somehow, probably through the information
returned from the seller to jvc directly, in order to do a product recall.
regards,
charlie
cave creek, az
Patriarch <[email protected]> wrote:
: We have gotten to the point that mt wife & I watch almost nothing that
: doesn't get captured through TiVo first.
Us too. TiVo really changed our viewing life completely. An amazing
product --
Andy Barss
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
> even the ads are repellent).
Yep ... from which springs a definite impression that the culture is
populated with barely functional, fist pumping, male idiots who can't get it
up.
While "they" may well be on to something, it could also be that all those
female advertising execs who broke into the business twenty years ago are
now frustrated and withered old bags?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05
In article <[email protected]>,
B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Charlie Self wrote:
>
> > I've got one CRT monitor upstairs that is past the decade
> > mark--I bought the thing as a refurb about 6-7 years ago, when it was
> > 4-5 years old. It shows no signs of problems yet.
>
> My "new" TV is 22 years old. <G>
>
> Barry
There is hope then. I bought my TV the month before my middle daughter
was born. She'll be 17 next month.
It works like a charm, never failed, and still looking good.
Then again...it's seldom on for more than a cpl of hours per day.
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> charlie b wrote:
> > While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
> > porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
> > Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
> > for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
> > have changed over the years. I still have and still
> > use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
> > circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
> > to lose - yet.
> >
> > I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
> > have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
> > be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
> > versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
> > better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
> > inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
> > so many other things, they've become disposable/
> > consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
> > grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
> > find useful and valuable?
> >
My set of Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Adrias, Blue Spurce Toolworks, Knight
Toolworks, etc. hand tools. And I'd hope my Unisaw, and other stationary
tools will still be around. As for routers/drills/etc., those probably ARE
consumables at this point, if not quite in the commodity range (although
closing in).
Mike
On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:12:57 -0700, charlie b <[email protected]>
wrote:
I diminsih the life of my all of tools with great skill.
Seems utterly pathetic that most of the "big three" have fallen for
the $19.95 slime ads! I quit CBS then the other followed their lead
but it seems to be abating recently.
On 17 May 2005 05:24:48 -0700, "Charlie Self" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I do watch the news, but it mostly makes me whimper. Too selective in
>reporting in the big three, while Fox is so biased as to be asinine.
On Wed, 18 May 2005 17:29:26 -0700, the inscrutable David
<[email protected]> spake:
>
>
>Dave in Fairfax wrote:
>> Australopithecus scobis wrote:
>>
>>>But it only gets one channel? :)
>>
>> Does it wake you up with Goooood Morning?
>
>VietNAAAAMMMM! <g>
My favorite line from that movie was Williams' comment to his
little pipsqueak boss:
"Lieutenant, you don't know whether you're shot, fucked, powder-burned
or snakebit. I don't -care- about polkas."
------------------------------------------
Do the voices in my head bother you?
------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full-Service Web Development
On 20 May 2005 05:27:11 EDT, Tim Daneliuk <[email protected]> wrote:
>> My definition of at least 85% of commercial programming on TV these days:
>>
>> Designed by and executed for congenital idiots.
>>
>> Lew
>
>Actually, it's designed for the all-so-important 18-24 demographic.
>Media is driven by culture (and vice-versa), and the culture
>is increasingly youth-obsessed. Note the pathetic level at which
>the middle-aged and beyond now cling to their illusions of youth.
>Cosmetic surgery and sexual performance drugs have replaced the Corvette
>and gold chains of yesteryear.
>
>Contrary to my long-standing protests to the contrary, I recently broke down
>and again installed "digital" cable, and I have to say, I'm mightily
>impressed. First of all, this medium is now increasingly "narrowcasting" -
>you have far more choices and opportunities to match your viewing with your
>interests. Secondly, the 'on-demand' feature makes time shifting of desireable
>shows a snap. Most important of all are the many channels of uninterrupted
>CD-quality music. Guest in our home now are treated to the idiot-box playing
>music over a middling fair sound system while we (gasp!) engage in conversation.
>
>
>Yes, there's a lot of garabage in popular media. But that's just Sturgeon's
>Law at work - 98% of *everything* is crap - excellence is rare in any
>discipline. But technology is never inherently evil, it's all in how you
>use it...
With the massive popularity of "big time wrestling" and the "reality" shows, I
wonder if that isn't prof that excessive TV watching kills brain cells... lol
I flip through the channels once in a while and can't believe that these shows
would have a draw... how can anything be "reality" when you know it's on tv????
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
Upscale wrote:
> "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>No cable or satellite, so no woodworking shows. If there's something I
>>really want to see, a friend tapes it for me. He's used one tape in the
>>past 11 months.
>
>
> In all honesty, that makes me jealous in a way. If I was in the same
> situation, I'd eventually get over the lack of Television, find something
> else to do and be all the happier for it.
>
Same here. I don't watch much, but get sucked in more than I'd like.
If I wasn't married, I'd ditch the service. I'd rather get news from
newspapers, and all of the major network news channels put everything on
the web. I like movies, but there's always Netflix.
Barry
On Mon, 16 May 2005 21:25:26 -0500, Patriarch <[email protected]>
wrote:
>charlie b <[email protected]> wrote in news:4288E2A9.53C7
>@accesscom.com:
>
><snip of some good stuff, as usual>
>
>> If so, what is the grand kid, or great
>> grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
>> find useful and valuable?
>>
>> charlie b
>
>The stuff you make with those tools, the care that went into that, and the
>time you take with the grandkid is what is going to be useful and valuable.
>
>But you knew that already.
>
>>
>> ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
>> in my heart for Festool's saber saw
>> AND plunge router and one of their cute
>> little vacuum cleaner things
>
>So crack open the wallet, and buy some of that stuff. There's gonna be a
>hell of a yard sale sometime in the future for each of us, or our estates,
>anyhow.
>
>Patriarch
You know, I really hope that in my case, that there are no tools in the yard
sale..
As much time as the kids have spent in the shop on their little projects, I'd
hope that they'd want our tools and might even use them..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
In article <[email protected]>,
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yep ... from which springs a definite impression that the culture is
> populated with barely functional, fist pumping, male idiots who can't get it
> up.
As a left-leaning centrist I've been quite upset lately by a few
commercials during the 7:00 after-dinner hour. One such that got my
boxers in a bunch is the latest Jack-in-the-Box ad for some contest
they're running. An employee at JitB HQ is reading a poster for the
contest on an office window and commenting out loud about the prizes. In
the midst of this stream of consciousness he says something on the order
of, "Jack should give away a night with his wife." He then sees that
JitB employees are not eligible and tears the poster off the window and
the viewer sees a stunned "Jack" who heard it all. Problem is that my 6
year old heard it all too. JitB will be getting a letter from me - my
first ever to a company about inappropriate messages in their
advertising.
My wife and I are getting to the point of stating "no TV other than
PBS." I can't think of any evening show that hasn't made us cringe on
occasion while watching as a family. Even some of "Everybody Loves
Raymond" reruns contain innuendo that is not suitable for young
children. I'd much rather my daughter be exposed to sensitively done
segments on same-sex households on Buster's Postcards than the cheap,
wink-wink, often 15 year old's juvenile, sex humor of family TV
programming.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
In article <[email protected]>,
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
> Latest really-stupid commercial observed during the nightly news. Some
> car commercial with a bunch of cars driving around with tails in the air
> and only front tires on the ground. Background voiceover intones, "get a
> car that uses all 4 wheels (or something to that effect)" as the car being
> advertised goes zipping around all the cars driving on their front tires
> only. Really, really, stupid CYA legalese pigeon-dropping: "professional
> drivers on closed course" uh-huh.
Those Mentos commercials still bug me. Not offensive or anything - just
weird, weird, weird. After one ends I'm usually found with a "I don't
get it" expression and a slow head shake.
On the flip side - I like the Geico ads where they set you up believing
that what you're watching is a real promo for a new show or something -
then wrap it into a message about Geico insurance. There's one with a
newlywed couple spending a year doing a reality TV show where everything
in their house is about 1/2 the normal size. Well done.
There was an ad run locally for a satellite TV service - saying how poor
the service on cable is with blackouts and repairmen never showing up.
Problem is that the ad is run on Comcast cable and I can't remember the
last time our service went out.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
Fly-by-Night CC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Yep ... from which springs a definite impression that the culture is
>>populated with barely functional, fist pumping, male idiots who can't get it
>>up.
>
>
> As a left-leaning centrist I've been quite upset lately by a few
> commercials during the 7:00 after-dinner hour.
<snip>
My definition of at least 85% of commercial programming on TV these days:
Designed by and executed for congenital idiots.
Lew
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Fly-by-Night CC wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Yep ... from which springs a definite impression that the culture is
>>> populated with barely functional, fist pumping, male idiots who can't
>>> get it
>>> up.
>>
>>
>>
>> As a left-leaning centrist I've been quite upset lately by a few
>> commercials during the 7:00 after-dinner hour.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> My definition of at least 85% of commercial programming on TV these days:
>
> Designed by and executed for congenital idiots.
>
> Lew
Actually, it's designed for the all-so-important 18-24 demographic.
Media is driven by culture (and vice-versa), and the culture
is increasingly youth-obsessed. Note the pathetic level at which
the middle-aged and beyond now cling to their illusions of youth.
Cosmetic surgery and sexual performance drugs have replaced the Corvette
and gold chains of yesteryear.
Contrary to my long-standing protests to the contrary, I recently broke down
and again installed "digital" cable, and I have to say, I'm mightily
impressed. First of all, this medium is now increasingly "narrowcasting" -
you have far more choices and opportunities to match your viewing with your
interests. Secondly, the 'on-demand' feature makes time shifting of desireable
shows a snap. Most important of all are the many channels of uninterrupted
CD-quality music. Guest in our home now are treated to the idiot-box playing
music over a middling fair sound system while we (gasp!) engage in conversation.
Yes, there's a lot of garabage in popular media. But that's just Sturgeon's
Law at work - 98% of *everything* is crap - excellence is rare in any
discipline. But technology is never inherently evil, it's all in how you
use it...
--
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Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
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