screws in cutting board

On 12/17/2014 7:26 AM, Leon wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
>> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together while
>> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have
>> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would be to
>> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue).
>> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together somehow.
>> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am using maple.
>
> I am currently building 6 cutting boards with 20 pieces of maple each. I
> simply glued 5 together and clamped, then I glued 4 sets of those together.
> I had very slight slip. This was pretty fast for me, I glued up 22
> groups of 5 in less than 2 hours.
>
> You could use screws but that is going to take significantly longer and
> will be a potential hazard if you need to trim after glue up.
>
> Use clamps on top and bottom to guard against bowing.
>


For what is is worth, this is what, this is what I am building. LABOR
INTENSIVE!

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/the-coolest-cutting-board-ever.aspx

On 12/17/2014 9:35 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 12/17/2014 7:37 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> Theoretically would screws stop bowing?
>>
>> Only if your clamps don't bow.
>
> I think we're talking about two different things here, one
> being bowing during clamping due to clamp pressure/alignment,
> and the other being bowing (i.e. warping) in use due to
> exposure to moisture.

Perhaps but I built a cutting board about a year ago that straddles the
kitchen sink. It gets very wet all the time on one side. No bowing but
because I did not varnish the ends of the piece I am getting some
checking on the ends.



>
> In any event, I think theoretically and practically screws
> wouldn't help, because it's fairly easy for them to bend,
> and wood can move around the screw anyway.

Exactly, they would only assist with slip during glue up.

> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when mak=
ing a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together while glue=
ing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have trouble=
when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed.=20

Bad idea. If the stock sides are parallel, the parts could be creeping and =
sliding. You could try sprinkling a tiny bit of sand between the boards to =
prevent slipping. Also, as has been said, use cauls to hold the top and bot=
tom flat.

Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] writes:
>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when makin=
>> g a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together while gluein=
>> g and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have trouble w=
>> hen I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would be to pre drill h=
>
> It would probably be better to first identify _why_ your cutting board
> bows when you clamp it. Could be the material is too thin, or more likely,
> your boards aren't square.

When gluing multiple pieces, 10+' you have to apply a lot of pressure to
insure all joints get squeezed tightly shut. This will make even BESSEY
kbody and cabinet master clamps to bow.

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
> making a cutting board.
> <snip>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, since they are totally unnecessary.
>
> If you want to reduce "creep" in your glue up, break there job into
> multiple glue ups.
>
> If the total glue up is 16 strips, then do 8 glue ups of 2 strips
> each.
>
> When dry, do 4 glue ups of 4 strips each.
>
> When dry, do 2 glue ups of 8 strips each.
>
> When dry, proceed.
>
> You have 16 strips glued together with minimum "creep" while
> making only a single joint with each glue up.
>
>
> Lew

Exactly what I am doing now with 6 cutting boards. Except I went 5 at a
time..

[email protected] wrote:
> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together while glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would be to pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue). Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together somehow. Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am using maple.

Try just gluing it like Leon said. If that doesn't work, screw it.

--
 GW Ross 

 People who are late are often happier 
 than those who have to wait for them. 
 --Chinese Fortune 

Sounds like a bad idea. Rust comes to mind. You might have to get
stainless steel screws if you really must use screws.

On 12/16/2014 10:44 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together while glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would be to pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue). Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together somehow. Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am using maple.

<[email protected]> wrote:

Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
making a cutting board.
<snip>
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes, since they are totally unnecessary.

If you want to reduce "creep" in your glue up, break there job into
multiple glue ups.

If the total glue up is 16 strips, then do 8 glue ups of 2 strips
each.

When dry, do 4 glue ups of 4 strips each.

When dry, do 2 glue ups of 8 strips each.

When dry, proceed.

You have 16 strips glued together with minimum "creep" while
making only a single joint with each glue up.


Lew

John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> I would be concerned about rust, and with "decking type" screws
> I'd be concerned about what they're plated with (which most
> likely should not be anywhere near food).
>
> If alignment is the issue, I'd use wood dowels.
>
> John

I've been thinking about dowels since about the first post... No chance of
ruining an edge because a blade knicked a screw. Biscuits or dominoes may
also be used.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Theoretically screws would prevent the need for clamping at all since
> unlike biscuit or dowels, the screws would actually be holding each
> piece tightly together (assuming enough were used).
> However, just because something is theoretically possible doesn't make
> it a good idea. :-)

*snip*

I wonder if Norm ever got bowing with "a couple of brads until the glue
dries". :-)

Puckdropper

--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 12/17/2014 09:28 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/17/2014 7:26 AM, Leon wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
>>> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
>>> while
>>> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have
>>> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would be to
>>> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue).
>>> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together somehow.
>>> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am
>>> using maple.
>>
>> I am currently building 6 cutting boards with 20 pieces of maple
>> each. I
>> simply glued 5 together and clamped, then I glued 4 sets of those
>> together.
>> I had very slight slip. This was pretty fast for me, I glued up 22
>> groups of 5 in less than 2 hours.
>>
>> You could use screws but that is going to take significantly longer and
>> will be a potential hazard if you need to trim after glue up.
>>
>> Use clamps on top and bottom to guard against bowing.
>>
>
>
> For what is is worth, this is what, this is what I am building. LABOR
> INTENSIVE!
>
> http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/the-coolest-cutting-board-ever.aspx
>
Similar technique as the coasters I made 3 years ago:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7yqpvyo6l2om42/IMG_0287.JPG?dl=0

- Doug


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 12/17/2014 09:35 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/17/2014 12:05 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>> On 12/17/2014 09:28 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 12/17/2014 7:26 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
>>>>> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
>>>>> while
>>>>> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to
>>>>> have
>>>>> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would
>>>>> be to
>>>>> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue).
>>>>> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together
>>>>> somehow.
>>>>> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am
>>>>> using maple.
>>>>
>>>> I am currently building 6 cutting boards with 20 pieces of maple
>>>> each. I
>>>> simply glued 5 together and clamped, then I glued 4 sets of those
>>>> together.
>>>> I had very slight slip. This was pretty fast for me, I glued up 22
>>>> groups of 5 in less than 2 hours.
>>>>
>>>> You could use screws but that is going to take significantly longer and
>>>> will be a potential hazard if you need to trim after glue up.
>>>>
>>>> Use clamps on top and bottom to guard against bowing.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For what is is worth, this is what, this is what I am building. LABOR
>>> INTENSIVE!
>>>
>>> http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/the-coolest-cutting-board-ever.aspx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Similar technique as the coasters I made 3 years ago:
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7yqpvyo6l2om42/IMG_0287.JPG?dl=0
>>
>> - Doug
>>
>> Way cool. How did you cut the curves?

I made a half dozen sets for Christmas gifts. Got the idea from
Woodsmith (I think).

Started with 5/4 maple blocks and made several templates with different
radii. Marked the blocks and bandsawd the curve. Cut a bunch of strips
of 5/4 wide by 1/16" thick cherry and walnut on the TS and glued and
clamped between the bandsawn curve. Repeat a bunch of times. Then
trimmed the block square on the TS and glued walnut banding around the
perimeter. Bandsawd the four coasters 1/4" thick from the block.

People ask "How did you do that inlay?" :-)




--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

<[email protected]> wrote:


On the two cutting boards I made I can hold down three corners flat
against my kitchen table, but one corner sticks up in the air. On one
cutting board it sticks up almost 1/4 of an inch. I guess I have two
options:

1. I have an old craftsman 50's era jointer that I have not used in
awhile. I could get it going. My cutting board is about 12 inches
wide, so I would have to attempt to joint one side of one face, then
flip the piece over and do the other side.
2. A long time ago I attempted to build a planer sled out of mdf. I
never really got to use it. It has angle on it to nail the piece being
jointed to, which puts a hole in the piece. I guess I would use shims
under the high end of the cutting board until it quit rocking and run
that throught the planer.

Unfortunately, time is of the essence is tomorrow is my last day of
work and I had intended to give these gifts then.
I appreciate any help!
---------------------------------------------
You are screwed.

Lew

On 12/18/2014 11:18 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/17/2014 11:24 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>> On 12/17/2014 09:35 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 12/17/2014 12:05 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>>>> On 12/17/2014 09:28 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 12/17/2014 7:26 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would
>>>>>>> be to
>>>>>>> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also
>>>>>>> glue).
>>>>>>> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together
>>>>>>> somehow.
>>>>>>> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am
>>>>>>> using maple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am currently building 6 cutting boards with 20 pieces of maple
>>>>>> each. I
>>>>>> simply glued 5 together and clamped, then I glued 4 sets of those
>>>>>> together.
>>>>>> I had very slight slip. This was pretty fast for me, I glued
>>>>>> up 22
>>>>>> groups of 5 in less than 2 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You could use screws but that is going to take significantly longer
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> will be a potential hazard if you need to trim after glue up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Use clamps on top and bottom to guard against bowing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For what is is worth, this is what, this is what I am building. LABOR
>>>>> INTENSIVE!
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/the-coolest-cutting-board-ever.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Similar technique as the coasters I made 3 years ago:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7yqpvyo6l2om42/IMG_0287.JPG?dl=0
>>>>
>>>> - Doug
>>>>
>>>> Way cool. How did you cut the curves?
>>
>> I made a half dozen sets for Christmas gifts. Got the idea from
>> Woodsmith (I think).
>>
>> Started with 5/4 maple blocks and made several templates with different
>> radii. Marked the blocks and bandsawd the curve. Cut a bunch of strips
>> of 5/4 wide by 1/16" thick cherry and walnut on the TS and glued and
>> clamped between the bandsawn curve. Repeat a bunch of times. Then
>> trimmed the block square on the TS and glued walnut banding around the
>> perimeter. Bandsawd the four coasters 1/4" thick from the block.
>>
>> People ask "How did you do that inlay?" :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Thank you for that explanation. If it is similar to the cutting boards,
> in effort, there are many many many steps. Great job!

Thanks, Leon. That cutting board project looks like another Leon well
done coming up.

On the two cutting boards I made I can hold down three corners flat against=
my kitchen table, but one corner sticks up in the air. On one cutting boar=
d it sticks up almost 1/4 of an inch. I guess I have two options:

1. I have an old craftsman 50's era jointer that I have not used in awhile.=
I could get it going. My cutting board is about 12 inches wide, so I would=
have to attempt to joint one side of one face, then flip the piece over an=
d do the other side.
2. A long time ago I attempted to build a planer sled out of mdf. I never r=
eally got to use it. It has angle on it to nail the piece being jointed to,=
which puts a hole in the piece. I guess I would use shims under the high e=
nd of the cutting board until it quit rocking and run that throught the pla=
ner.

Unfortunately, time is of the essence is tomorrow is my last day of work an=
d I had intended to give these gifts then.
I appreciate any help!








On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 11:24:03 PM UTC-6, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 12/17/2014 09:35 PM, Leon wrote:
> > On 12/17/2014 12:05 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> >> On 12/17/2014 09:28 AM, Leon wrote:
> >>> On 12/17/2014 7:26 AM, Leon wrote:
> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats wh=
en
> >>>>> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
> >>>>> while
> >>>>> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would
> >>>>> be to
> >>>>> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue=
).
> >>>>> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together
> >>>>> somehow.
> >>>>> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am
> >>>>> using maple.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am currently building 6 cutting boards with 20 pieces of maple
> >>>> each. I
> >>>> simply glued 5 together and clamped, then I glued 4 sets of those
> >>>> together.
> >>>> I had very slight slip. This was pretty fast for me, I glued up=
22
> >>>> groups of 5 in less than 2 hours.
> >>>>
> >>>> You could use screws but that is going to take significantly longer =
and
> >>>> will be a potential hazard if you need to trim after glue up.
> >>>>
> >>>> Use clamps on top and bottom to guard against bowing.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> For what is is worth, this is what, this is what I am building. LABO=
R
> >>> INTENSIVE!
> >>>
> >>> http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/the-coolest-cutting-board=
-ever.aspx
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Similar technique as the coasters I made 3 years ago:
> >>
> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7yqpvyo6l2om42/IMG_0287.JPG?dl=3D0
> >>
> >> - Doug
> >>
> >> Way cool. How did you cut the curves?
>=20
> I made a half dozen sets for Christmas gifts. Got the idea from=20
> Woodsmith (I think).
>=20
> Started with 5/4 maple blocks and made several templates with different=
=20
> radii. Marked the blocks and bandsawd the curve. Cut a bunch of strips=
=20
> of 5/4 wide by 1/16" thick cherry and walnut on the TS and glued and=20
> clamped between the bandsawn curve. Repeat a bunch of times. Then=20
> trimmed the block square on the TS and glued walnut banding around the=20
> perimeter. Bandsawd the four coasters 1/4" thick from the block.
>=20
> People ask "How did you do that inlay?" :-)
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> "Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the=20
> gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"=20
> -Winston Churchill

<[email protected]> wrote:
> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together while
> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have
> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would be to
> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue).
> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together somehow.
> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am using maple.

I am currently building 6 cutting boards with 20 pieces of maple each. I
simply glued 5 together and clamped, then I glued 4 sets of those together.
I had very slight slip. This was pretty fast for me, I glued up 22
groups of 5 in less than 2 hours.

You could use screws but that is going to take significantly longer and
will be a potential hazard if you need to trim after glue up.

Use clamps on top and bottom to guard against bowing.

On 12/17/2014 7:37 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> Theoretically would screws stop bowing?

Only if your clamps don't bow.

On 12/16/2014 5:45 PM, mungedaddress wrote:
> Sounds like a bad idea. Rust comes to mind. You might have to get
> stainless steel screws if you really must use screws.
>
> On 12/16/2014 10:44 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
>> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
>> while glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem
>> to have trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan
>> would be to pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and
>> also glue). Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them
>> together somehow. Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been
>> thinking. I am using maple.


Not saying that rust would not be bud, but would rust really be a problem?

The screw is there only to assist with glue up. If it rusted what would
it matter?

Just food for thought. I often use 23 gauge pins for preventing creep
and they have never been an issue.

On 12/17/2014 12:05 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 12/17/2014 09:28 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/17/2014 7:26 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
>>>> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
>>>> while
>>>> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have
>>>> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would
>>>> be to
>>>> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue).
>>>> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together somehow.
>>>> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am
>>>> using maple.
>>>
>>> I am currently building 6 cutting boards with 20 pieces of maple
>>> each. I
>>> simply glued 5 together and clamped, then I glued 4 sets of those
>>> together.
>>> I had very slight slip. This was pretty fast for me, I glued up 22
>>> groups of 5 in less than 2 hours.
>>>
>>> You could use screws but that is going to take significantly longer and
>>> will be a potential hazard if you need to trim after glue up.
>>>
>>> Use clamps on top and bottom to guard against bowing.
>>>
>>
>>
>> For what is is worth, this is what, this is what I am building. LABOR
>> INTENSIVE!
>>
>> http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/the-coolest-cutting-board-ever.aspx
>>
>>
> Similar technique as the coasters I made 3 years ago:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7yqpvyo6l2om42/IMG_0287.JPG?dl=0
>
> - Doug
>
>Way cool. How did you cut the curves?

mungedaddress <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Sounds like a bad idea. Rust comes to mind. You might have to get
> stainless steel screws if you really must use screws.

I would be concerned about rust, and with "decking type" screws
I'd be concerned about what they're plated with (which most
likely should not be anywhere near food).

If alignment is the issue, I'd use wood dowels.

John

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 12/17/2014 7:37 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> Theoretically would screws stop bowing?
>
> Only if your clamps don't bow.

I think we're talking about two different things here, one
being bowing during clamping due to clamp pressure/alignment,
and the other being bowing (i.e. warping) in use due to
exposure to moisture.

In any event, I think theoretically and practically screws
wouldn't help, because it's fairly easy for them to bend,
and wood can move around the screw anyway.

John

[email protected] wrote in news:cb00b8c7-60e1-45da-8ee0-
[email protected]:

> Theoretically would screws stop bowing?

As has been explained to you several times already, the wood is bowing because your
clamping pressure is uneven, or because the sides of the strips you're gluing together are
not parallel, or both.

Figure out what the problem really is, and fix that -- and stop trying to look for the quick-and-
dirty solution to everything.

Or you can do like you normally do: ask for advice on how to fix a problem, get good
advice, argue with it, ignore it, and do what you already planned to do anyway.

(For those who don't spend much time in alt.home.repair or rec.crafts.metalworking, stryped
has become well-known in those groups for always seeking quick-and-dirty solutions to
*everything*. He never wants to fix anything right, just quick and easy.)

Theoretically would screws stop bowing?

On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 12:18:43 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 12/16/14, 11:46 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> > John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >
> >>
> >> I would be concerned about rust, and with "decking type" screws
> >> I'd be concerned about what they're plated with (which most
> >> likely should not be anywhere near food).
> >>
> >> If alignment is the issue, I'd use wood dowels.
> >>
> >> John
> >
> > I've been thinking about dowels since about the first post... No chance of
> > ruining an edge because a blade knicked a screw. Biscuits or dominoes may
> > also be used.
> >
> > Puckdropper
> >
>
> I would forget about the biscuits or dowels as none will stop bowing.
> Cauls are the best option and these clamps make best most efficient use
> of them...
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/125392/woodriver-clamping-system.aspx
>
>
> --
>
> -MIKE-
>
> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
> --
> http://mikedrums.com
> [email protected]
> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:44:38 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:

>Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together while glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would be to pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue). Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together somehow. Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am using maple.

One possible cause of bowing could be your clamping pressure may be
too high. To counteract the bowing, cauls positioned above and below
your work piece and perpendicular to your clamps could solve the
problem.

>Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats
>when making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
>while glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing.
>I seem to have trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed.
>my plan would be to pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time
> (and also glue). Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them
>together somehow. Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength.
>Just been thinking. I am using maple.


What thickness ? of maple.
.. others mentioned clamping pressure ..
.. perhaps more of a problem with thin stock ?
John T.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
> while
> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have
> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would be to
> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue).
> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together somehow.
> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am
> using
> maple.

There are two reasons I can think of at the moment why your glueups bow...

1. The edges aren't square

2. Your clamps aren't set properly. If, for example, all the clamps go
across one side of what you are clamping and if the pressure isn't at the
middle of the edges, tightening the clamps will bow the wood. The easy
way to avoid that is to alternate the clamps, top and bottom; i.e., one on
the top, next (a distance away) on the bottom, next on the top, etc.

As you tighten the clamps, you should use a straight edge across the
boards to assure all are flat; if not, you can tweak it by
tightening/loosing clamps on the appropriate side.

As far as the screws go, I see no problem in doing so, just use something
that doesn't rust.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 11:41:33 -0600
Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> One possible cause of bowing could be your clamping pressure may be
> too high. To counteract the bowing, cauls positioned above and below
> your work piece and perpendicular to your clamps could solve the
> problem.

This gets my vote as most probable cause.

Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 11:41:33 -0600
> Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> One possible cause of bowing could be your clamping pressure may be
>> too high. To counteract the bowing, cauls positioned above and below
>> your work piece and perpendicular to your clamps could solve the
>> problem.
> This gets my vote as most probable cause.
>
>

FWIW, when I was in high school we sent the initial glue-up
through the jointer and planer to take care of Minor slippage.

Bill

On 12/16/14, 7:03 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats
> when making a cutting board. <snip>
> --------------------------------------------------------- Yes, since
> they are totally unnecessary.
>
> If you want to reduce "creep" in your glue up, break there job into
> multiple glue ups.
>
> If the total glue up is 16 strips, then do 8 glue ups of 2 strips
> each.
>
> When dry, do 4 glue ups of 4 strips each.
>
> When dry, do 2 glue ups of 8 strips each.
>
> When dry, proceed.
>
> You have 16 strips glued together with minimum "creep" while making
> only a single joint with each glue up.
>
>
> Lew
>

That's something I learned early.
Now, I often glue up just wide enough to fit through the planer, then
glue those together. It's a lot fewer seems to scrape.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 12/16/14, 11:46 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> I would be concerned about rust, and with "decking type" screws
>> I'd be concerned about what they're plated with (which most
>> likely should not be anywhere near food).
>>
>> If alignment is the issue, I'd use wood dowels.
>>
>> John
>
> I've been thinking about dowels since about the first post... No chance of
> ruining an edge because a blade knicked a screw. Biscuits or dominoes may
> also be used.
>
> Puckdropper
>

I would forget about the biscuits or dowels as none will stop bowing.
Cauls are the best option and these clamps make best most efficient use
of them...

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/125392/woodriver-clamping-system.aspx


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[email protected] wrote:
> Theoretically would screws stop bowing?
Gluing your strips in alternating directions will help stop bowing.
Theoretically, cursing at the wood will stop it from bowing--or at the
very least, make it think twice.


>
> On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 12:18:43 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 12/16/14, 11:46 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>> John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> I would be concerned about rust, and with "decking type" screws
>>>> I'd be concerned about what they're plated with (which most
>>>> likely should not be anywhere near food).
>>>>
>>>> If alignment is the issue, I'd use wood dowels.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>> I've been thinking about dowels since about the first post... No chance of
>>> ruining an edge because a blade knicked a screw. Biscuits or dominoes may
>>> also be used.
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>>>
>> I would forget about the biscuits or dowels as none will stop bowing.
>> Cauls are the best option and these clamps make best most efficient use
>> of them...
>>
>> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/125392/woodriver-clamping-system.aspx
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -MIKE-
>>
>> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
>> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
>> --
>> http://mikedrums.com
>> [email protected]
>> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Bill wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
>> Theoretically would screws stop bowing?

> Theoretically, cursing at the wood will stop it from bowing--or at the
> very least, make it think twice.
>

Now that's the best advice I've seen in this entire thread!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 12/17/14, 7:37 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 12:18:43 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 12/16/14, 11:46 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>> John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would be concerned about rust, and with "decking type" screws
>>>> I'd be concerned about what they're plated with (which most
>>>> likely should not be anywhere near food).
>>>>
>>>> If alignment is the issue, I'd use wood dowels.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>
>>> I've been thinking about dowels since about the first post... No chance of
>>> ruining an edge because a blade knicked a screw. Biscuits or dominoes may
>>> also be used.
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>>>
>>
>> I would forget about the biscuits or dowels as none will stop bowing.
>> Cauls are the best option and these clamps make best most efficient use
>> of them...
>>
>> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/125392/woodriver-clamping-system.aspx
>>
> Theoretically would screws stop bowing?
>

Theoretically screws would prevent the need for clamping at all since
unlike biscuit or dowels, the screws would actually be holding each
piece tightly together (assuming enough were used).
However, just because something is theoretically possible doesn't make
it a good idea. :-)

Once you develop proper clamping technique, including but not limited to
using the clamping system in the link I provided, you'll see how much
more time it would take to drive all those screws compared to clamping.

On the other had, if you're just trying to make one cutting board and
you don't want to invest in several hundred dollars worth of clamps
you'd only use for on project.... pfft, I don't blame you-- go for it.
Use screws and let us know how it turns out.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 12/17/14, 12:05 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 12/17/2014 09:28 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/17/2014 7:26 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
>>>> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
>>>> while
>>>> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have
>>>> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would
>>>> be to
>>>> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue).
>>>> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together somehow.
>>>> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am
>>>> using maple.
>>>
>>> I am currently building 6 cutting boards with 20 pieces of maple
>>> each. I
>>> simply glued 5 together and clamped, then I glued 4 sets of those
>>> together.
>>> I had very slight slip. This was pretty fast for me, I glued up 22
>>> groups of 5 in less than 2 hours.
>>>
>>> You could use screws but that is going to take significantly longer and
>>> will be a potential hazard if you need to trim after glue up.
>>>
>>> Use clamps on top and bottom to guard against bowing.
>>>
>>
>>
>> For what is is worth, this is what, this is what I am building. LABOR
>> INTENSIVE!
>>
>> http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/the-coolest-cutting-board-ever.aspx
>>
>>
> Similar technique as the coasters I made 3 years ago:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7yqpvyo6l2om42/IMG_0287.JPG?dl=0
>
> - Doug
>
>

Hey now, Doug. Those are purty!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 06:13:37 -0800 (PST)
[email protected] wrote:

> On the two cutting boards I made I can hold down three corners flat
> against my kitchen table, but one corner sticks up in the air. On one
> cutting board it sticks up almost 1/4 of an inch. I guess I have two
> options:

3rd option, cut a 45 across that corner if it'll make a difference.
4th option drill a 1" hole for hanging the board and then sand that
area thinner so it looks like you meant it.

On 12/17/14, 9:28 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/17/2014 7:26 AM, Leon wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
>>> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
>>> while
>>> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have
>>> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would be to
>>> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue).
>>> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together somehow.
>>> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am
>>> using maple.
>>
>> I am currently building 6 cutting boards with 20 pieces of maple
>> each. I
>> simply glued 5 together and clamped, then I glued 4 sets of those
>> together.
>> I had very slight slip. This was pretty fast for me, I glued up 22
>> groups of 5 in less than 2 hours.
>>
>> You could use screws but that is going to take significantly longer and
>> will be a potential hazard if you need to trim after glue up.
>>
>> Use clamps on top and bottom to guard against bowing.
>>
>
>
> For what is is worth, this is what, this is what I am building. LABOR
> INTENSIVE!
>
> http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/the-coolest-cutting-board-ever.aspx
>

I've made those before, they are a good seller at the craft shows.
Labor intensive compared to a regular cutting board, but similar to
regular projects. What I didn't like was waiting for the glue to dry
after each 'inlay' and of coarse cutting the bugger in half at the
bandsaw (just seems like I'm destroying it).
-BR

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---

On 12/17/2014 1:05 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:

>> For what is is worth, this is what, this is what I am building. LABOR
>> INTENSIVE!
>>
>> http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/the-coolest-cutting-board-ever.aspx
>>
>>
> Similar technique as the coasters I made 3 years ago:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7yqpvyo6l2om42/IMG_0287.JPG?dl=0
>
> - Doug
>
>

Foth are very nice. I can think of a few things to adapt that technique
to. Box lids come to mind.

On 12/17/2014 10:28 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/17/2014 7:26 AM, Leon wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
>>> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
>>> while
>>> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have
>>> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would be to
>>> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue).
>>> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together somehow.
>>> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am
>>> using maple.
>>
>> I am currently building 6 cutting boards with 20 pieces of maple
>> each. I
>> simply glued 5 together and clamped, then I glued 4 sets of those
>> together.
>> I had very slight slip. This was pretty fast for me, I glued up 22
>> groups of 5 in less than 2 hours.
>>
>> You could use screws but that is going to take significantly longer and
>> will be a potential hazard if you need to trim after glue up.
>>
>> Use clamps on top and bottom to guard against bowing.
>>
>
>
> For what is is worth, this is what, this is what I am building. LABOR
> INTENSIVE!
>
> http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/the-coolest-cutting-board-ever.aspx
>
Good instructions - fine example. Coolest Yes. Wow.
Martin

Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 06:13:37 -0800 (PST)
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> On the two cutting boards I made I can hold down three corners flat
>> against my kitchen table, but one corner sticks up in the air. On one
>> cutting board it sticks up almost 1/4 of an inch. I guess I have two
>> options:
>
>3rd option, cut a 45 across that corner if it'll make a difference.
>4th option drill a 1" hole for hanging the board and then sand that
>area thinner so it looks like you meant it.
>
>

5th, use a jack plane with winding sticks to level the surface.

On 12/17/2014 11:24 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 12/17/2014 09:35 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/17/2014 12:05 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>>> On 12/17/2014 09:28 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 12/17/2014 7:26 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when
>>>>>> making a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together
>>>>>> while
>>>>>> glueing and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> trouble when I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would
>>>>>> be to
>>>>>> pre drill holes and screw together 4 slats at a time (and also glue).
>>>>>> Then I would attach these sub assembles and glue them together
>>>>>> somehow.
>>>>>> Maybe inserting dowels for extra strength. Just been thinking. I am
>>>>>> using maple.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am currently building 6 cutting boards with 20 pieces of maple
>>>>> each. I
>>>>> simply glued 5 together and clamped, then I glued 4 sets of those
>>>>> together.
>>>>> I had very slight slip. This was pretty fast for me, I glued
>>>>> up 22
>>>>> groups of 5 in less than 2 hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could use screws but that is going to take significantly longer
>>>>> and
>>>>> will be a potential hazard if you need to trim after glue up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Use clamps on top and bottom to guard against bowing.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For what is is worth, this is what, this is what I am building. LABOR
>>>> INTENSIVE!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/the-coolest-cutting-board-ever.aspx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Similar technique as the coasters I made 3 years ago:
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7yqpvyo6l2om42/IMG_0287.JPG?dl=0
>>>
>>> - Doug
>>>
>>> Way cool. How did you cut the curves?
>
> I made a half dozen sets for Christmas gifts. Got the idea from
> Woodsmith (I think).
>
> Started with 5/4 maple blocks and made several templates with different
> radii. Marked the blocks and bandsawd the curve. Cut a bunch of strips
> of 5/4 wide by 1/16" thick cherry and walnut on the TS and glued and
> clamped between the bandsawn curve. Repeat a bunch of times. Then
> trimmed the block square on the TS and glued walnut banding around the
> perimeter. Bandsawd the four coasters 1/4" thick from the block.
>
> People ask "How did you do that inlay?" :-)
>
>
>
>
Thank you for that explanation. If it is similar to the cutting boards,
in effort, there are many many many steps. Great job!

[email protected] writes:
>Do you see any problem putting decking type screws between slats when makin=
>g a cutting board. This would be done to help hold it together while gluein=
>g and for added strength and resistance to bowing. I seem to have trouble w=
>hen I just clamp everything. It gets bowed. my plan would be to pre drill h=

It would probably be better to first identify _why_ your cutting board
bows when you clamp it. Could be the material is too thin, or more likely,
your boards aren't square.