"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
> Any comments?
>
> Dean
>
Skipping the big long thread in the middle on this.
I have only ever put USED motor oil for my bar oil. I have 2 stihls that are
about 20 and 13 years old respectfully. I have replaced the oil pumps in
each saw once for 70~80 dollars Canadian, parts and labour each time. Each
saw is expected to cut and rip about 60~75 cords of firewood each year. I
do believe I have saved good amount of money over the last 20 years by using
used motor oil and getting new pumps rather than using new motor oil or bar
oil.
It works for me.
Harry K wrote:
>
> Charlie Self wrote:
>
>>Tom Quackenbush wrote:
>>
>>>gfulton wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>>Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
>>>>>'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
>>>>>unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
>>>>>until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
>>>>>mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
>>>>>was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
>>>>>of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
>>>>>suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
>>>>>instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
>>>>>that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thank you for injecting some sanity into this discussion.
>>>
>>> Well sure, but "sanity" makes for a pretty short discussion, now,
>>>doesn't it?
>>>
>>> I'm also not sure what carcinogenic (sp ?) risk is involved in
>>>handling used motor oil.
>>>
>>
>>Probably no more than just being born. I know a guy who used old motor
>>oil for a number of things, from (he thought) preserving fence posts to
>>sun tan oil. He's been doing both for upwards of 40 years with no
>>apparent ill effects.
>>
>>My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
>>thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
>>the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
>>chain.
>
>
> That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
> to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
> know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
> my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
> to use motor oil.
>
> Harry K
>
I'll add my two cents. Oh, B.S.! You are talking
about nothing except metal rubbing on metal, a
piece of metal riding in a groove, with two pieces
of metal (the chain) riding on two flat surfaces
(the bar). The tension is highly variable, not
only at the beginning but during operation as the
chain heats up. The chain metal is hardened, the
bar is fairly hard, but easily draw filed. If you
need an engineer to figure out the lube, then you
probably need an engineer to figure out how to
lube the stick you slide across the floor.
Don't try to embue engineers with God like
knowledge. The stuff about formulated oil is
probably nothing but liability wording.
Use oil with some stickum. Are all of you going
to go to such extensive B.S. in describing what
kind of grease to use on the bar tip wheel?
In article <[email protected]>, "dean" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
Bar & chain oil is a *lot* thicker and stickier than motor oil. This helps it
stay on the chain. Motor oil will work, but it gets slung off the chain pretty
quickly, so you have to replenish the oil reservoir more often. And it makes a
hell of a mess.
Bottom line: motor oil is cheaper, but you use more of it. I'm guessing it's
about even, price-wise.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
"Elmo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Duane Bozarth wrote:
> > PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
> > ...
> >
> >>Back to the oil--always seems to dissappear within a year or so from my
> >>gravel drive, and I find it hard to believe its all being washed away by
the
> >>rain...
> >>
> >
> > The area where we drained oil from tractors and trucks from as far back
> > as the 20s until toughly the 70s or 80s is now covered in grass and is
> > indistinguishable from that area surrounding it...when I was a kid it
> > looked like almost like a paved road. It's broken down pretty well.
> > Not a smart thing to have done, certainly, and I suspect a soil sample
> > would show some residual, but certainly doesn't appear permanent....
>
> As I understand it, the problem is not so much what it does to the soil
that it
> leaches through as what it does to the water table when it gets down
there.
>
The oil itself is not a problem, IMO unless the environment is overwhelmed
with it.
Besides.....because oil floats on water, I think I would be more concerned
with any additives and residual contaminents that may come out of
suspension.......
--
SVL
Tom Quackenbush wrote:
> gfulton wrote:
> >Ashton Crusher wrote:
> <snip>
> >> Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
> >> 'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
> >> unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
> >> until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
> >> mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
> >> was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
> >> of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
> >> suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
> >> instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
> >> that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.
> >
> >
> >Thank you for injecting some sanity into this discussion.
>
> Well sure, but "sanity" makes for a pretty short discussion, now,
> doesn't it?
>
> I'm also not sure what carcinogenic (sp ?) risk is involved in
> handling used motor oil.
>
Probably no more than just being born. I know a guy who used old motor
oil for a number of things, from (he thought) preserving fence posts to
sun tan oil. He's been doing both for upwards of 40 years with no
apparent ill effects.
My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
chain.
On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 08:08:07 -0700, G Henslee <[email protected]>
wrote:
>http://tinyurl.com/dkwsn
Damn I hate it when people post a URL without any explanation !
Especially when they post it twice.
* Messages deleted *
Charlie Self wrote:
> Tom Quackenbush wrote:
> > gfulton wrote:
> > >Ashton Crusher wrote:
> > <snip>
> > >> Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
> > >> 'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
> > >> unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
> > >> until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
> > >> mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
> > >> was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
> > >> of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
> > >> suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
> > >> instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
> > >> that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.
> > >
> > >
> > >Thank you for injecting some sanity into this discussion.
> >
> > Well sure, but "sanity" makes for a pretty short discussion, now,
> > doesn't it?
> >
> > I'm also not sure what carcinogenic (sp ?) risk is involved in
> > handling used motor oil.
> >
> Probably no more than just being born. I know a guy who used old motor
> oil for a number of things, from (he thought) preserving fence posts to
> sun tan oil. He's been doing both for upwards of 40 years with no
> apparent ill effects.
>
> My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
> thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
> the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
> chain.
That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
to use motor oil.
Harry K
George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Harry K wrote:
> >
> > Charlie Self wrote:
> >
> >>Tom Quackenbush wrote:
> >>
> >>>gfulton wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >>>
> >>><snip>
> >>>
> >>>>>Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
> >>>>>'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
> >>>>>unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
> >>>>>until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
> >>>>>mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
> >>>>>was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
> >>>>>of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
> >>>>>suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
> >>>>>instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
> >>>>>that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Thank you for injecting some sanity into this discussion.
> >>>
> >>> Well sure, but "sanity" makes for a pretty short discussion, now,
> >>>doesn't it?
> >>>
> >>> I'm also not sure what carcinogenic (sp ?) risk is involved in
> >>>handling used motor oil.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Probably no more than just being born. I know a guy who used old motor
> >>oil for a number of things, from (he thought) preserving fence posts to
> >>sun tan oil. He's been doing both for upwards of 40 years with no
> >>apparent ill effects.
> >>
> >>My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
> >>thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
> >>the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
> >>chain.
> >
> >
> > That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
> > to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
> > know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
> > my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
> > to use motor oil.
> >
> > Harry K
> >
> I'll add my two cents. Oh, B.S.! You are talking
> about nothing except metal rubbing on metal, a
> piece of metal riding in a groove, with two pieces
> of metal (the chain) riding on two flat surfaces
> (the bar). The tension is highly variable, not
> only at the beginning but during operation as the
> chain heats up. The chain metal is hardened, the
> bar is fairly hard, but easily draw filed. If you
> need an engineer to figure out the lube, then you
> probably need an engineer to figure out how to
> lube the stick you slide across the floor.
>
> Don't try to embue engineers with God like
> knowledge. The stuff about formulated oil is
> probably nothing but liability wording.
>
> Use oil with some stickum. Are all of you going
> to go to such extensive B.S. in describing what
> kind of grease to use on the bar tip wheel?
I presume you follow that advice. Your vehicles must love you for not
following the recommended type oil. After all you know more than the
engineers.
Harry K
AL wrote:
> Charlie Self wrote:
>
> > My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
> > thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
> > the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
> > chain.
> >
>
> Hmmm, *my* motorcycle doesn't have a self oiling chain??? SO! To keep it
> lubricated and keep the o-rings supple it is necessary to use a lube
> that doesn't throw off. The chainsaw however has a continuous flow of
> oil to the chain. Using used motor oil instead of thicker bar oil just
> means refilling the oil reserve more often.
>
<snip>
>
> AL
So just what do you think happens to a chainsaw chain as it goes over
the tip of the bar? That's right, it tries to sling oil off just like
your motorcycle does going around the sprocket. Same reason you want
some tack additive in the oil. Used motor doesn't have it. Using your
logic, you should be using used motor oil for your motorcycle chain.
Harry K
HeadHunter wrote:
> "dean" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Because every professional user I have ever seen is using
> > 10W30 engine oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my
> > Stihls but I was just wondering if I am wasting money on
> > expensive bar oil?
> >
> > Any comments?
>
>
> Skipping the big long thread in the middle on this.
>
> I have only ever put USED motor oil for my bar oil. I have 2 stihls
> that are about 20 and 13 years old respectfully. I have replaced
> the oil pumps in each saw once for 70~80 dollars Canadian, parts and
> labour each time. Each saw is expected to cut and rip about 60~75
> cords of firewood each year. I do believe I have saved good amount
> of money over the last 20 years by using used motor oil and getting
> new pumps rather than using new motor oil or bar oil.
>
> It works for me.
Used motor oil contains various carcinogens and slowly makes its way
down to groundwater. Why use it to save 25 cents a day?
AL wrote:
> Harry K wrote:
> >
> > AL wrote:
> >
> >>Charlie Self wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
> >>>thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
> >>>the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
> >>>chain.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Hmmm, *my* motorcycle doesn't have a self oiling chain??? SO! To keep it
> >>lubricated and keep the o-rings supple it is necessary to use a lube
> >>that doesn't throw off. The chainsaw however has a continuous flow of
> >>oil to the chain. Using used motor oil instead of thicker bar oil just
> >>means refilling the oil reserve more often.
> >>
> >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >>AL
> >
> >
> > So just what do you think happens to a chainsaw chain as it goes over
> > the tip of the bar? That's right, it tries to sling oil off just like
> > your motorcycle does going around the sprocket. Same reason you want
> > some tack additive in the oil. Used motor doesn't have it. Using your
> > logic, you should be using used motor oil for your motorcycle chain.
> >
> > Harry K
> >
>
>
> Try actually reading before responding.
>
> No, my argument is that, since the chainsaw is self oiling with a
> constant flow of oil from the resevoir to replace what is thrown off or
> dragged off by cutting the wood, it is not as important to have a sticky
> oil as it is for a motorcycle chain that receives an occasional oiling
> that must adhere to the chain for as long as possible thus making the
> sticky oil necessary - whew...
>
> As to whether used motor oil works for chainsaws, just go back up the
> thread for proof.
>
> AL
Okay, lets try this. Which do you think is -better- for a saw. Used
oil (or even new motor oil) that slings most of it off going over the
nose before it gets to the point of most wear or oil with a tack
additive that gets more oil where it is needed?
I don't understand the animosity in this thread at all. Noone says that
motor oil doesn't work. The motor oil proponents aren't going to
change, I am not going to change and I use a lot of chain/bar oil. The
opinions are just that - opinions. What the hell is all the screaming
about??
Harry K
George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Harry K wrote:
> >
> > George E. Cawthon wrote:
> >
> >>Harry K wrote:
> >>
> >>>Charlie Self wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Tom Quackenbush wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>gfulton wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>><snip>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
> >>>>>>>'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
> >>>>>>>unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
> >>>>>>>until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
> >>>>>>>mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
> >>>>>>>was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
> >>>>>>>of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
> >>>>>>>suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
> >>>>>>>instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
> >>>>>>>that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Thank you for injecting some sanity into this discussion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well sure, but "sanity" makes for a pretty short discussion, now,
> >>>>>doesn't it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm also not sure what carcinogenic (sp ?) risk is involved in
> >>>>>handling used motor oil.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Probably no more than just being born. I know a guy who used old motor
> >>>>oil for a number of things, from (he thought) preserving fence posts to
> >>>>sun tan oil. He's been doing both for upwards of 40 years with no
> >>>>apparent ill effects.
> >>>>
> >>>>My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
> >>>>thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
> >>>>the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
> >>>>chain.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
> >>>to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
> >>>know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
> >>>my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
> >>>to use motor oil.
> >>>
> >>>Harry K
> >>>
> >>
> >>I'll add my two cents. Oh, B.S.! You are talking
> >>about nothing except metal rubbing on metal, a
> >>piece of metal riding in a groove, with two pieces
> >>of metal (the chain) riding on two flat surfaces
> >>(the bar). The tension is highly variable, not
> >>only at the beginning but during operation as the
> >>chain heats up. The chain metal is hardened, the
> >>bar is fairly hard, but easily draw filed. If you
> >>need an engineer to figure out the lube, then you
> >>probably need an engineer to figure out how to
> >>lube the stick you slide across the floor.
> >>
> >>Don't try to embue engineers with God like
> >>knowledge. The stuff about formulated oil is
> >>probably nothing but liability wording.
> >>
> >>Use oil with some stickum. Are all of you going
> >>to go to such extensive B.S. in describing what
> >>kind of grease to use on the bar tip wheel?
> >
> >
> > I presume you follow that advice. Your vehicles must love you for not
> > following the recommended type oil. After all you know more than the
> > engineers.
> >
> > Harry K
> >
>
> I would guess that you know nothing about modern
> (even old) engines and bearing tolerances.
> Otherwise you wouldn't equate a modern engine
> using the same oil for 5,000 miles with a chain on
> a blade using replacement oil every few minutes.
So in one use you say engineers are full of it and you don't believe
their recommendations and then in another they are god? Rather
inconsistent wouldn't you say?
Harry K
George E. Cawthon wrote:
> ...
>
> Good point! Is that what I said? Oh yeah, it was
> You that said something about engineers
> designing saws to use a specific oil. And I said
> you were full of shit. ...
I've worked on development projects for mechanical equipment
and assure you that it is typical for the engineer(s) and/or
designer(s) to specify what lubricants should be used and
how to apply them.
I'd wager that when a chainsaw manufacturer comes out with
a new saw the recommendation for what oil to use on the bar
is made by virtue of NOT editing or redrawing that information
from whatever documents and drawings (of an older model) were
used as the starting point for the new model.
At some point between the invention of the chain saw and
the production of the say you bought someone put some
thought into chain lubrication. Unless and until that
recommendation changes, it is probably just there in the
documentation as a matter of inertia.
IOW, if you want to know what oil to use, RTFM.
--
FF
George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Harry K wrote:
> >
> ((snipped))
> >>>>>>My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
> >>>>>>thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
> >>>>>>the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
> >>>>>>chain.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
> >>>>>to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
> >>>>>know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
> >>>>>my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
> >>>>>to use motor oil.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Harry K
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>I'll add my two cents. Oh, B.S.! You are talking
> >>>>about nothing except metal rubbing on metal, a
> >>>>piece of metal riding in a groove, with two pieces
> >>>>of metal (the chain) riding on two flat surfaces
> >>>>(the bar). The tension is highly variable, not
> >>>>only at the beginning but during operation as the
> >>>>chain heats up. The chain metal is hardened, the
> >>>>bar is fairly hard, but easily draw filed. If you
> >>>>need an engineer to figure out the lube, then you
> >>>>probably need an engineer to figure out how to
> >>>>lube the stick you slide across the floor.
> >>>>
> >>>>Don't try to embue engineers with God like
> >>>>knowledge. The stuff about formulated oil is
> >>>>probably nothing but liability wording.
> >>>>
> >>>>Use oil with some stickum. Are all of you going
> >>>>to go to such extensive B.S. in describing what
> >>>>kind of grease to use on the bar tip wheel?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I presume you follow that advice. Your vehicles must love you for not
> >>>following the recommended type oil. After all you know more than the
> >>>engineers.
> >>>
> >>>Harry K
> >>>
> >>
> >>I would guess that you know nothing about modern
> >>(even old) engines and bearing tolerances.
> >>Otherwise you wouldn't equate a modern engine
> >>using the same oil for 5,000 miles with a chain on
> >>a blade using replacement oil every few minutes.
> >
> >
> > So in one use you say engineers are full of it and you don't believe
> > their recommendations and then in another they are god? Rather
> > inconsistent wouldn't you say?
> >
> > Harry K
> >
>
> Good point! Is that what I said? Oh yeah, it was
> You that said something about engineers
> designing saws to use a specific oil. And I said
> you were full of shit. You are on the engineer
> kick, not me. Probably no engineers involved in
> the oil recommendation, and they certainly didn't
> design a saw to use a specific oil (kind of bass
> akwards, wouldn't it be?). Maybe a chemist
> designed an oil that would work with the saw, but
> more likely just somebody that has used a saw, an
> accountant, and a lawyer--none of whom probably
> know anything about oil formulas. BTW, I have
> friends who are engineers, not gods, just people
> (note I didn't say men because about half of them
> are women) who also don't think they are gods and
> none of whom probably give a shit about chainsaws
> or the oil that the manufacture recommends for the
> bars, but damn if they don't all have cars.
> Cheers!
Rather straining there aren't you. I don't see that I said anything
about a "specific" oil. Only that a "specific type" of oil, (e.g.,
bar/chain oil) was specified. You then went into a rant about
engineers, not me.
Harry K
HeadHunter wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> ...
> > Used motor oil contains various carcinogens and slowly makes its way
> > down to groundwater. Why use it to save 25 cents a day?
>
> Well the bar oil is pretty damn expensive in Canada. prolly more like a 33
> to 40 cents a day difference.
>
>...
> As for cancer? I run a cutting tools business where we weld cobalt and
> tungsten and molyb bandsaw blades all day. I have to deal with used
> threading oil and bandsaw machine inspections and metal filings 40 or 50
> hours a week.
I rather hope you send it to a recycler and don't dump it on the
ground.
>
> As for groundwater I'm in the woods 1/2 to 2 miles from my artesian spring
> well. My concern for local groundwater ends there. By the time groundwater
> makes off my property into the two drainage areas, I have always assumed
> mother nature has filtered it.
I don't think Mother Nature is very good at breaking down petroleum
oil. I suspect breakdown relies heaviely on oxidation and exposure
UV,both of which will be minimized underground.
Organics can travel long distances through the water table. E.g.
mother nature is very poor at filtering them. So if
someone uphill where the water enters your artesian system dumps
oil on the ground you likely have traces of it in your well,
depending on how long it takes to get to you from there.
No need to trust me, or to assume, these are things you can check
out for yourself.
> The simple act of burning firewood cause far
> more environmental damage than throwing oil on the ground.
Uh, that rather heavily depends on the quantity of each, but
I suspect you are right on the mark as regars how much oil
gets into the environment from normal chain saw use to make
firewood vs how muchharm is done by burning the wood.
But that is an argument from irrelevency, the amoutn of firewood
you cut probably remains independent of your choice of
bar oil.
I few years back I helped a guy convert some wood using an
Alaskan chian saw mill. He used some sort of vegetable oils
in the gas and on the bar. The manufacturer claimed (of
course) that these were better lubricants than their
petroleum-based counterparts. This guy used them because
the apararatus put the operators face near the exhaust and
the vegetable oils made the environment less unpleasant.
A good respirator helped more though.
--
FF
Tim and Steph wrote:
> > I few years back I helped a guy convert some wood using an
> > Alaskan chian saw mill. He used some sort of vegetable oils
> > in the gas and on the bar. The manufacturer claimed (of
> > course) that these were better lubricants than their
> > petroleum-based counterparts. This guy used them because
> > the apararatus put the operators face near the exhaust and
> > the vegetable oils made the environment less unpleasant.
> >
> > A good respirator helped more though.
>
> Yikes - I'm already wearing a helmet, face shield, glasses and earmuffs -
> how'd he fit in a respirator? I don't think mine would fit under the face
> sheild.
>
> Maybe I should get this?
>
> http://store1.yimg.com/I/apsonline_1845_1265324/apsonline_1845_1265324.jpg
>
It has been a number of years and my memory is nto as good as it used
to
be, or at least not as good as I remember it was. ;-)
Howver ISTR he used safety glasses instead of a face shield. My
MSA respirator fits OK under my face shield.
BTW, it needs new elastic, any ideas where to get replacement?
--
FF
Upscale wrote:
> "Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > If you don't mind how it looks, I've used elastic off of an old pair
> > of underwear to replace the elastic on a pair of safety goggles.
>
> Probably be more of a consideration where they came from than how the look.
> :)
Especially if I leave it attached....
--
FF
"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
> Any comments?
>
> Dean
>
I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
--
Al Reid
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 02:38:10 GMT, "Gideon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Who the hell let's the bar or chain hit the dirt?
>If you are that careless, then you may as well use water
>instead of bar oil.
>
I'm guilty, happens to me about 2 times a year and always makes me
sick because I work hard at keeping my saw in tip top shape.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> >> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> >> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
> >>
> >> Any comments?
> >
> >I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
> >
> No, not really.
>
> The suspended solids and other junk (such as combustion byproducts) in used
> motor oil don't do either the bar or the chain any good. That gunk is better
> off being recycled and disposed of properly.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Doug,
I have never actually put used motor oil in my saws, although I have been told that it can be done. I was just testing a theory
that if I said I did that Doug Miller would be the first one to tell me that I was wrong to do so.
Theory proven correct ;^)
--
Al Reid
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > news:[email protected]...
> >> >> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> >> >> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> >> >> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
> >> >>
> >> >> Any comments?
> >> >
> >> >I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
> >> >
> >> No, not really.
> >>
> >> The suspended solids and other junk (such as combustion byproducts) in used
> >> motor oil don't do either the bar or the chain any good. That gunk is better
> >> off being recycled and disposed of properly.
> >>
> >Doug,
> >
> >I have never actually put used motor oil in my saws, although I have been told
> > that it can be done. I was just testing a theory
> >that if I said I did that Doug Miller would be the first one to tell me that I
> > was wrong to do so.
> >
> >Theory proven correct ;^)
>
> Are you a jerk in real life, too, or just on Usenet?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
ROFLMAO!
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Doug Miller wrote:
> >
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:
> > >Doug Miller wrote:
> > >....
> > >> The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine
> > > particles
> > >> of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust.
Surely
> > >> you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the
chain
> > >> and bar.
> > >
> > >A lot of the chips and dust are wood, but a lot isn't--the inevitable
> > >dirt and other grime is at least as abrasive as the much smaller
> > >diameter particles that made it through the engine oil filter...after
> > >all, you wouldn't be particularly concerned to run your auto another
500
> > >or even 1000 miles above the 3000 mi mark if you were on a trip and
> > >needed that to get home for a more convenient oil change, would you?
> > >The lube requirements of any modern engine are <far> more onerous...
> >
> > Just the same, it should be obvious that you're not doing your chain saw
any
> > good by running used motor oil through it.
>
> By the same token, I don't think it at all obvious there would be much
> difference observable one way or the other as opposed to clean motor
> oil...
>
> Seems to me like the "stale gas" thread or the "diluted 2-cycle gas in
> 4-cycle engine" threads of recent history... :(
Duane,
I've got a 25 yr. old Poulan that has an 18 yr. old bar. I've used the
hell out of that saw on_big_trees over the years. Only reason I changed the
bar was it got bent when a tree pinched it when I was cutting on a hillside.
I've always filled the bar oil tank with used motor oil. My chains last a
long time and it should be evident that it sure didn't do any damage to the
bar. I do pump the oiler quite a bit on the saw and keep the bar well
lubed. Now................................wait for it.
Some horse's ass will tell me I'm spreading carcinogens to the little forest
creatures who might come and lick the stump that has used motor oil on it.
Garrett Fulton
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:30:01 GMT, the opaque "George E. Cawthon"
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
>
>>Actually, the soil compression from logging is
>>probably overall more harmful than any petroleum
>>spills, fish excepted.
>
>
> Um, if the water table is contaminated by the oil, I'd -much-
> rather have soil compression and the resultant fewer trees, TYVM.
>
>
> -----
> = Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
> http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
Contrary to the idiocy often evidence by DEQ's, it
takes quite a spill to contaminate groundwater.
BTW, got to start using those terms correctly. You
can't contaminate the water table. That's like
"spilling coffee on the inches." Water table is
just an elevation. What gets contaminated in
ground water or "aquifer" if you prefer. There's
another common mistake "ground water aquifer"
because ground water and aquifer mean the same
thing. Oops, guess the old editor job just
spilled out.
"cowboy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You are spreading carcinogens to the little forest creatures who might
come
> and lick the stump that has used motor oil on it.
>
> Not to mention getting cancer yourself by handling used oil.
>
> being a horse's ass is better than being a DUMBASS
>
>
And if Bullshit was music, you'd be a brass band, tough guy. You're exposed
to several orders of magnitude more carcinogens by just breathing the
exhaust from the chainsaw. But I guess you go to the woods with a medical
compressor and respirator. Typical environmental whacko. Not enough sense
to pour piss out of a boot.
Garrett Fulton
dean wrote:
> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
> Any comments?
>
> Dean
>
Having owned a small logging company for about 2 years, and
having used numerous chain saws, I vote for the cheapest oil
that you can get. NOTHING can be more abrasive to the bar
than the chain itself. The oil serves to keep it cool and
lubricated. Any oil will do that.
We bought 5 gallon buckets of reconstituted oil and mixed it
with used (strained through a paint strainer) motor oil mixed
in to make it go further. We used about 20 gallons a week.
I still have an old Poulan Countervibe 3500 from those days
that is still going strong, and that was in the 70s.
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX
Duane Bozarth wrote:
>George E. Cawthon wrote:
<snip>
>> Actually, the soil compression from logging is
>> probably overall more harmful than any petroleum
>> spills, fish excepted.
>
>No way to test that hypothesis here... :)
>
>Although minimizing compaction w/ low- and no-till is showing very good
>results after a number of years of continuous practice.
Low- and no-till logging?
R,
Tom Q.
--
R,
Tom Q.
Remove bogusinfo to reply.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, "dean"
>>
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>>>>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>>>>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Bar & chain oil is a *lot* thicker and stickier than motor oil. This helps it
>>
>>>stay on the chain. Motor oil will work, but it gets slung off the chain
>>
>>pretty
>>
>>>quickly, so you have to replenish the oil reservoir more often. And it makes
>>
>>a
>>
>>>hell of a mess.
>>
>>Getting slung off the bar doesn't cause the saw to
>>use more oil. Just means that the bar gets
>>hotter,
>
>
> i.e. it isn't getting adequate lubrication...
>
>
>>unless you dial up the oil flow.
>
>
> And obviously if you dial up the oil flow, you use more oil.
>
>
>>'Course
>>all you need to do is add a little Motor Honey or
>>STP additive.
>
>
> Or just use bar & chain oil to start with....
>
>
>>>Bottom line: motor oil is cheaper, but you use more of it. I'm guessing it's
>>>about even, price-wise.
>>
>>That isn't true either, standard brands of motor
>>oil are more expensive unless you find a really
>>good sale.
>
>
> In that case, what possible point is there in using motor oil? More expensive,
> and you need more of it, equals "bad idea" from where I stand.
Absolutely.
> Then there's your suggestion of adding STP... making a more-expensive
> alternative even *more* expensive. I'm having trouble understanding why anyone
> would want to do that...
>
Simple. You don't buy motor oil in preference to
bar oil. But if you have oil that otherwise you
wouldn't use (bad brand, high viscosity, low
quality/service rating; somebody gives you oil; or
you buy oil on sale for less than 50 cents a
quart, then use it instead of buying bar oil.
BTW, adding STP/Motor Honey will add less than 50
cents to a gallon of oil. And then, maybe
somebody will give you the Motor Honey.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine
>>>>
>>>>particles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust. Surely
>>>>>you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the chain
>>>>>and bar.
>>>>
>>>>A lot of the chips and dust are wood, but a lot isn't--the inevitable
>>>>dirt and other grime is at least as abrasive as the much smaller
>>>>diameter particles that made it through the engine oil filter...after
>>>>all, you wouldn't be particularly concerned to run your auto another 500
>>>>or even 1000 miles above the 3000 mi mark if you were on a trip and
>>>>needed that to get home for a more convenient oil change, would you?
>>>>The lube requirements of any modern engine are <far> more onerous...
>>>
>>>
>>>Just the same, it should be obvious that you're not doing your chain saw any
>>>good by running used motor oil through it.
>>>
>>
>>Doug, it just goes on the bar, it doesn't go
>>through the motor. One touch into the dirt with
>>the bar and you are far worse off than anything
>>dirty motor oil would do to the bar.
>
>
> Yes, George, I know it just goes on the bar. Are you really having such a hard
> time understanding that used, dirty oil doesn't lubricate as well as new,
> clean oil?
>
I don't advocate using used oil. But new oil is
dirty as soon as you drive 1 mile after an oil
change. If you are changing your engine oil
every 3 months/ 3000 miles in a good engine, there
is lots of lubrication left. Some car
manufactures seem to think there is at least
another 2 months/2000 miles of use, and some seem
to think there is another 4 months/4000 miles of
use left.
If it feels oily, it will lube the bar just fine.
We're not talking fine tolerances. Any opposing
argument is justs specious.
gfulton wrote:
> "Ashton Crusher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:15:31 -0400, "Al Reid"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>>>"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>>>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30
>
> engine
>
>>>>>>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>>>>>>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Any comments?
>>>>>
>>>>>I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No, not really.
>>>>
>>>>The suspended solids and other junk (such as combustion byproducts) in
>
> used
>
>>>>motor oil don't do either the bar or the chain any good. That gunk is
>
> better
>
>>>>off being recycled and disposed of properly.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Regards,
>>>> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>>>>
>>>>Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his
>
> butt.
>
>>>>And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
>>>
>>>Doug,
>>>
>>>I have never actually put used motor oil in my saws, although I have been
>
> told that it can be done. I was just testing a theory
>
>>>that if I said I did that Doug Miller would be the first one to tell me
>
> that I was wrong to do so.
>
>>>Theory proven correct ;^)
>>
>>
>>Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
>>'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
>>unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
>>until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
>>mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
>>was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
>>of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
>>suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
>>instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
>>that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.
>
>
>
> Thank you for injecting some sanity into this discussion.
>
> Garrett Fulton
>
>
I agree, excellent logic. But, remember, no good deed goes unpunished.
:)
AL
George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Just the same, it should be obvious that you're not doing your chain
>> saw any good by running used motor oil through it.
>
>
> Doug, it just goes on the bar, it doesn't go through the motor. One
> touch into the dirt with the bar and you are far worse off than anything
> dirty motor oil would do to the bar.
I know several wood cutters who use the used motor oil to lube the bar
and chain. They cut a helluva lot of wood year around and I've never
heard them complain about the oil hurting the saw or it's chain.
Don Bruder wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Gideon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Who the hell let's the bar or chain hit the dirt?
>>If you are that careless, then you may as well use water
>>instead of bar oil.
>
>
>
> So, besides being a top-posting moron, you're also absolutely perfect,
> and have never, under any circumstances, for any reason, *EVER* hit dirt
> while cutting, eh?
>
> Damn... You're a GOD!
>
And God don't need no chain saw. A few tsunamis, an earthquake or two,
forest fires, etc, and the planet is 'right' again.
Tom Miller wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:25:13 GMT, "Tim and Steph" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>|
>>| You mousse that thing, too?
>>|
>
>
> No, but I did hack up an elk once. Yuck.|
>
Wood chipper works well for elk sausage. ;-)
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> >> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> >> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
> >>
> >> Any comments?
> >
> >I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
> >
> No, not really.
>
> The suspended solids and other junk (such as combustion byproducts) in used
> motor oil don't do either the bar or the chain any good. That gunk is better
> off being recycled and disposed of properly.
>
Actually, I never thought of it, but I really doubt it's really doing
any harm--it's not a demanding lubrication problem and the solids
suspended in the oil aren't anything much to compare to the junk that's
being collected on the bar anyway...
imo, $0.02, ymmv, etc., .... :)
Juergen Hannappel wrote:
>
> "dean" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> > oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> > wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
> The oil on the chain will be distributed in you environment it's
> totally unacceptable to use a non-biodegradable oil for lubricating
> the saw. The pro's you have seen obviously don't care a dam about the
> rest of the world and should be [insert punishment of choice]...
Well, they <are> cutting trees, aren't they, the scum... :)
I really doubt the base of bar oil is any different than that for engine
oil...just viscosity and (perhaps) some specific additives, but I'd not
expect much there as the lubrication requirements are not onerous in
terms of temperature, pressure, tolerances, etc.
Doug Miller wrote:
...
> The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine particles
> of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust. Surely
> you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the chain
> and bar.
A lot of the chips and dust are wood, but a lot isn't--the inevitable
dirt and other grime is at least as abrasive as the much smaller
diameter particles that made it through the engine oil filter...after
all, you wouldn't be particularly concerned to run your auto another 500
or even 1000 miles above the 3000 mi mark if you were on a trip and
needed that to get home for a more convenient oil change, would you?
The lube requirements of any modern engine are <far> more onerous...
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> >Doug Miller wrote:
> >....
> >> The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine
> > particles
> >> of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust. Surely
> >> you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the chain
> >> and bar.
> >
> >A lot of the chips and dust are wood, but a lot isn't--the inevitable
> >dirt and other grime is at least as abrasive as the much smaller
> >diameter particles that made it through the engine oil filter...after
> >all, you wouldn't be particularly concerned to run your auto another 500
> >or even 1000 miles above the 3000 mi mark if you were on a trip and
> >needed that to get home for a more convenient oil change, would you?
> >The lube requirements of any modern engine are <far> more onerous...
>
> Just the same, it should be obvious that you're not doing your chain saw any
> good by running used motor oil through it.
By the same token, I don't think it at all obvious there would be much
difference observable one way or the other as opposed to clean motor
oil...
Seems to me like the "stale gas" thread or the "diluted 2-cycle gas in
4-cycle engine" threads of recent history... :(
[email protected] wrote:
>
> I rented a chainsaw this weekend. Ran out of bar oil,
> went to the rental shop. They filled the bar oil bottle
> with 30w oil because they didn't have any bar oil left.
> This was done by the lead supervisor on the job so it
> must be ok.
Well, that's a stretch to conclude... :)
(Although I don't disagree w/ particular action, just to draw the
conclusion the action of a "supervisor" implies knowledge is a stretch
imo).
Although I will say it's the first rental place I've heard of that
wouldn't consider the lube oil a "consumable" for which the renter is
responsible, just like the fuel...
Garrett Fulton wrote:
...
> Duane,
> I've got a 25 yr. old Poulan that has an 18 yr. old bar. I've used the
> hell out of that saw on_big_trees over the years. Only reason I changed the
> bar was it got bent when a tree pinched it when I was cutting on a hillside.
> I've always filled the bar oil tank with used motor oil. My chains last a
> long time and it should be evident that it sure didn't do any damage to the
> bar. I do pump the oiler quite a bit on the saw and keep the bar well
> lubed. Now................................wait for it.
> Some horse's ass will tell me I'm spreading carcinogens to the little forest
> creatures who might come and lick the stump that has used motor oil on it.
>
Sound like your thinking parallels mine... :)
I'd never thought of it as a use for the old oil and since each of the
large tractors takes 16 qts/change, it adds up pretty quickly here on
the farm... :(
There's only so much that can be used on combine chains, etc. I'll
probably go to a used oil burner for some heat in the shop here in
another winter or so when I get the rest of the barn refurb far enough
along to have actually got it close to tight...at present no windows in
anything except the shop itself, etc., so far so not much purpose 'til
can get farther along and farming comes first this time of year.
George wrote:
>
....
> Confederate Air Force brought a 29 and a 17 out for static display when I
> was stationed in California. Together they had one tenth the hours of the
> 52 parked nearby. And it was one of the "young" ones, not an old hog like
> the D.
They flew a 29 out here for display and even a few sightseeing flights
over Memorial Day. There was a large pilot training base here in the
war. Silos on the farm were a landmark for return lineup for landing.
One fella' who flew them and was trainer here took a turn and retraced
his old path--discovered we'd had to take the silos down. I happened to
be out when he flew over at about 150 ft or so.
PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
...
> Back to the oil--always seems to dissappear within a year or so from my
> gravel drive, and I find it hard to believe its all being washed away by the
> rain...
>
The area where we drained oil from tractors and trucks from as far back
as the 20s until toughly the 70s or 80s is now covered in grass and is
indistinguishable from that area surrounding it...when I was a kid it
looked like almost like a paved road. It's broken down pretty well.
Not a smart thing to have done, certainly, and I suspect a soil sample
would show some residual, but certainly doesn't appear permanent....
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> >Doug Miller wrote:
> >....snip...
> >
> >Can't you see we're mostly simply pulling your "sky is falling"
> >chain??? :)
>
> I'm not sure what you think you read. I never said anything beyond stating
> what is, or should be, self-evidently obvious: that new oil is a better
> lubricant than used oil, and that oils specifically formulated for a
> particular purpose are better suited to that purpose than oils which are not.
I read your typical reaction to a suggestion...
Doug Miller wrote:
...
> Then I'm at a total loss to understand where you thought you read that the sky
> is falling.
It's the logical characterization by extension of your absolute position
which is repeated on a myriad of subjects...
It's not that the statements themselves are strictly incorrect (yes, new
oil <is> more lubricating than old, and yes, what is entrained in used
oil isn't a lubricant), it's that you tend to apply the principle to the
extreme where, in this case, the lubrication reqm'ts are so minimal and
the inevitable introduction of extraneous dirt and grime makes carrying
on over using virgin lubricant specifically tailored to the purpose such
overkill as to invite parody...
That help? :)
And, btw, most of the loss of function in motor oil isn't the oil, per
se, it's the breakdown of the additives that are there specifically for
the high-temperature/high-pressure conditions of an engine--conditions
not at all prevalent in the application here.
Elmo wrote:
>
> Duane Bozarth wrote:
> > PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
> > ...
> >
> >>Back to the oil--always seems to dissappear within a year or so from my
> >>gravel drive, and I find it hard to believe its all being washed away by the
> >>rain...
> >>
> >
> > The area where we drained oil from tractors and trucks from as far back
> > as the 20s until toughly the 70s or 80s is now covered in grass and is
> > indistinguishable from that area surrounding it...when I was a kid it
> > looked like almost like a paved road. It's broken down pretty well.
> > Not a smart thing to have done, certainly, and I suspect a soil sample
> > would show some residual, but certainly doesn't appear permanent....
>
> As I understand it, the problem is not so much what it does to the soil that it
> leaches through as what it does to the water table when it gets down there.
Certainly where there is either a pathway or the underground aquifers
are surface-replenished, that's an issue. Here the aquifer is not
surface-renewed at any significant rate at all, and while there are
areas where surface contamination can penetrate (abandoned unplugged
oil/gas wells being the prime culprit), there aren't any of those in
this particular location.
Not justifying what was (although common in the time) a poor choice,
simply noting it does appear that a great deal of recovery has occurred
in a relatively short time since the action ceased....
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> >Doug Miller wrote:
> >....
> >> Then I'm at a total loss to understand where you thought you read that the
> > sky
> >> is falling.
> >
> >It's the logical characterization by extension of your absolute position
> >which is repeated on a myriad of subjects...
>
> I'm not responsible for you reading things I didn't write.
Nor am for your apparent inability to recognize patterns revealed by
repeated specific actions.... :)
Doug Miller wrote:
>
...
>
> I'm certainly picking up a pattern in *your* posts...
>
To that I certainly plead guilty... :)
I consistently try to point out the tendency to go to extremes (of which
you're not the only propoent), sadly. :(
I had hoped you just <might> see at least a modicum of levity arising in
the continuing descent into absurdium...alas, if not. I tried.
"George E. Cawthon" wrote:
>
> Duane Bozarth wrote:
> > PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
> > ...
> >
> >>Back to the oil--always seems to dissappear within a year or so from my
> >>gravel drive, and I find it hard to believe its all being washed away by the
> >>rain...
> >>
> >
> > The area where we drained oil from tractors and trucks from as far back
> > as the 20s until toughly the 70s or 80s is now covered in grass and is
> > indistinguishable from that area surrounding it...when I was a kid it
> > looked like almost like a paved road. It's broken down pretty well.
> > Not a smart thing to have done, certainly, and I suspect a soil sample
> > would show some residual, but certainly doesn't appear permanent....
>
> Actually, the soil compression from logging is
> probably overall more harmful than any petroleum
> spills, fish excepted.
No way to test that hypothesis here... :)
Although minimizing compaction w/ low- and no-till is showing very good
results after a number of years of continuous practice.
Elmo wrote:
...
>
> It may not reach _your_ aquifer but it's gotta go someplace. (Unless you're in
> a Death Valley type hole.)
>
Well, of course...simply commenting on local conditions...it's not
<quite> a desert, but dry in comparison to most. It's a very sandy soil
but there's a caliche layer at about 2-3' under the surface that is
nearly impermeable. I'm sure some detailed soil sampling could find
some remnants near that layer...
Tom Quackenbush wrote:
>
> Duane Bozarth wrote:
> >George E. Cawthon wrote:
> <snip>
> >> Actually, the soil compression from logging is
> >> probably overall more harmful than any petroleum
> >> spills, fish excepted.
> >
> >No way to test that hypothesis here... :)
> >
> >Although minimizing compaction w/ low- and no-till is showing very good
> >results after a number of years of continuous practice.
>
> Low- and no-till logging?
...farming...no trees here.
"Norma Desmond" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> what in the world makes you think oil is not biodegradable?
>
>
>
Or for that matter, what difference does it make? I'll tell you another
thing that isn't "biodegradable" and stays forever - dirt.
"Don Bruder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:67oue.1643$p%[email protected]...
.
>
> Face it, Doug, waste oil is perfectly fine as bar oil, despite your
> bleating to the contrary.
>
> (And the greenies who might want to cry about it are perfectly welcome
> to go suck rocks.)
Well, a field expedient, or maybe for folks who beat up a bar so bad so fast
that it's not important, like limbers.
However, bar oils are formulated differently even for summer and winter to
try and hit that happy place where it carries well enough to lubricate,
while having the good sense to get out of the way with its burden of dirt
when the chain runs fast and free.
I'm in hardwood country, and in the days before harvesters it was really
tough to find someone who didn't use bar oil, or respect the tool that
brought him his livelihood well enough to spend the four bucks per gallon.
Bubba in the pineywoods might have enough waste oil in the junkers in his
front yard to cut for a couple of days, but it just doesn't make sense for
someone earning a living with his saw to scrounge dirty oil.
"PrecisionMachinisT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> In fact, many municipalitys are now requiring a "grassy swale area" in
order
> that any oily runoff from parking lots, subdivisions, and other such
largely
> paved-over areas be allowed time in order to bio-process before the water
> leaches back into the soil in recharging the local aquifer.
>
Well, no. Mostly that's to allow the runoff from storms to get into the
ground rather than the sewers. You get fined for excessive flow of
untreated sewage from your plant, and a storm overloads the system fast.
Not sure how it passed, but "environmentals" being the noisy folks they are,
there was an ordinance up in the city that newly-constructed lots had to
have "plantings" and grassy areas rather than just flat asphalt.
Now consider an average snowfall of ~200" and cars dripping with great salt
stalactites. Not a lot grows around the lot, and it's tougher'n hell to get
a plowing pattern to clear snow around the aesthetically pleasing curbs....
"John B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > If you never heard about this 1994-95 rescue attempt and its unhappy
> > ending, here's a link:
> >
> > http://b-29s-over-korea.com/shortstories/b29-frozen.htm
> What a bastard.
> A great yarn.
> John
"There are only a handful of B-29's left, out of over 4,000. Somehow nobody
realized it until it was too late. At one time the Arizona desert was
covered with B-29's, some flown in and in good condition. They were all
scrapped. "
Confederate Air Force brought a 29 and a 17 out for static display when I
was stationed in California. Together they had one tenth the hours of the
52 parked nearby. And it was one of the "young" ones, not an old hog like
the D.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <67oue.1643$p%[email protected]>, Don Bruder
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I'm wondering which part of "The first time the tip touches dirt even
> >for an instant, you've just put more crap on the bar than any amount of
> >used motor oil possibly could" you can't comprehend.
>
> I generally try to avoid sticking the tip of my chain saw into the dirt.
>
> Apparently you're not as careful with yours.
What do you do, pressure wash the bark? Or does the wind not blow and
carry where you live?
"Gideon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Who the hell let's the bar or chain hit the dirt?
> If you are that careless, then you may as well use water
> instead of bar oil.
Hoping you are not as obtuse as Doug, the purpose of the oil is _also_ to
help get the dirt which gets on the bar flushed away.
Unless your trees are much different that the rest of the world, the
bark/branch pockets/crotches will collect dirt.
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Quackenbush wrote:
> >
> > Duane Bozarth wrote:
> > >George E. Cawthon wrote:
> > <snip>
> > >> Actually, the soil compression from logging is
> > >> probably overall more harmful than any petroleum
> > >> spills, fish excepted.
> > >
> > >No way to test that hypothesis here... :)
> > >
> > >Although minimizing compaction w/ low- and no-till is showing very good
> > >results after a number of years of continuous practice.
> >
> > Low- and no-till logging?
>
> ...farming...no trees here.
Works the same in logging. Soft spots logged in the winter when the
ground's frozen, high, sandy stuff with pine in the summer. When the
forest's really dense, an Iron Mule can't find a way to hit the ground for
the roots. The call it "low impact" logging.
I have use Ams/Oil bar and chain oil since 1990 and NO
problems
"Ashton Crusher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On 27 Jun 2005 07:13:50 -0700, "Harry K"
<[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>
>Charlie Self wrote:
>> Tom Quackenbush wrote:
>> > gfulton wrote:
>> > >Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> > <snip>
>> > >> Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it.
The claim that
>> > >> 'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true
but OTOH it is very
>> > >> unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it
was being used up
>> > >> until it was drained to lubricate a far more
complicated and delicate
>> > >> mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects.
To think that it
>> > >> was good enough for your car up till then, but
inadequate for the task
>> > >> of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an
equally silly
>> > >> suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor
to recycle it
>> > >> instead because that means you will be using BRAND
NEW oil instead of
>> > >> that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of
limited oil.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Thank you for injecting some sanity into this
discussion.
>> >
>> > Well sure, but "sanity" makes for a pretty short
discussion, now,
>> > doesn't it?
>> >
>> > I'm also not sure what carcinogenic (sp ?) risk is
involved in
>> > handling used motor oil.
>> >
>> Probably no more than just being born. I know a guy who
used old motor
>> oil for a number of things, from (he thought) preserving
fence posts to
>> sun tan oil. He's been doing both for upwards of 40 years
with no
>> apparent ill effects.
>>
>> My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is
simpler. It is too
>> thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no
protection. That's
>> the same objection I'd have to running it on a
motorcycle, or bicycle,
>> chain.
>
>That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers
designing them say
>to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure
that they
>know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have
to dig out
>my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it
specifically says not
>to use motor oil.
>
>Harry K
Well, if I was in the business of selling branded "special"
bar oil at
twice the price of cheap motor oil I'd put that in my
instruction
manual too.
On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:06:48 GMT, "Tim and Steph" <[email protected]> wrote:
> | > I had hoped you just <might> see at least a modicum of levity arising in
> | > the continuing descent into absurdium...alas, if not. I tried.
> |
> | We've been waiting for that 'round these parts as long as I can remember. I
> | don't think Doug ever admits to being wrong. As near as I can tell, his
> | opinion is the nearest thing to gospel truth. Doug, thanks for setting us
> | all on the path to righteousness!
> |
> | :)
I've been using hair oil in my chain saw for years. The chain always
stays neat and nicely slicked down, even in a strong wind.
Occasionally you should take it to a barber for a trim. Some prefer to
take the chain saw to a beauty parlor for a wash and set, but that's
for sissies.
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:25:13 GMT, "Tim and Steph" <[email protected]> wrote:
> |
> | "Tom Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> | news:[email protected]...
> | > On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:06:48 GMT, "Tim and Steph" <[email protected]> wrote:
> | >
> | >> | > I had hoped you just <might> see at least a modicum of levity
> | >> arising in
> | >> | > the continuing descent into absurdium...alas, if not. I tried.
> | >> |
> | >> | We've been waiting for that 'round these parts as long as I can
> | >> remember. I
> | >> | don't think Doug ever admits to being wrong. As near as I can tell,
> | >> his
> | >> | opinion is the nearest thing to gospel truth. Doug, thanks for
> | >> setting us
> | >> | all on the path to righteousness!
> | >> |
> | >> | :)
> | >
> | > I've been using hair oil in my chain saw for years. The chain always
> | > stays neat and nicely slicked down, even in a strong wind.
> | > Occasionally you should take it to a barber for a trim. Some prefer to
> | > take the chain saw to a beauty parlor for a wash and set, but that's
> | > for sissies.
> |
> | Snort!
> |
> | You mousse that thing, too?
> |
No, but I did hack up an elk once. Yuck.|
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 10:56:45 -0700, G Henslee <[email protected]>
wrote:
> | Tom Miller wrote:
> | > On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:25:13 GMT, "Tim and Steph" <[email protected]> wrote:
> | >
> | >>|
> | >>| You mousse that thing, too?
> | >>|
> | >
> | >
> | > No, but I did hack up an elk once. Yuck.|
> | >
> |
> | Wood chipper works well for elk sausage. ;-)
Elkburgers! The worst piece of meat I've ever eaten.
On 22 Jun 2005 07:27:39 -0700, "dean" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
I've been reading this thread with great interest. I've used all three
types of bar lube (used motor oil, new motor oil, and tackified bar
oil) and have cut a lot of wood over the last 30+ years. I never did
it professionally, but my Father in law did and I picked his brain
too.
My conclusions:
Used motor oil:
Pros:
Cheap, does the job
Cons:
Dirty, turns everything black it touches, never washes out.
Requires turning up the automatic oiler to a higher level, so
you often use a tank of oil quicker than a tank of gas, creating the
risk of running the bar dry.
Slings off the bar at the nose (which is why the previous) and
leaves the actual cutting part of the bar under-lubed.
Poorest job of lubing of the three.
*May* be carcinogenic.
Unless you get enough from oil changes in your own vehicles you
have to scrounge it.
And, the deal killer for me finally after hundreds of gallons of
the stuff, it usually contains enough contaminants that it will plug
up the pump, bar or passages at the worst moments.
New motor oil:
Pros:
Does the job, slightly cheaper than dedicated bar oil.
Cleaner than used oil.
Clean, doesn't plug anything up and the viscosity can be chosen
to work in cold weather.
Cons:
Slings off the bar so requires turning up the oiler and may
under-lube the cutting side of the bar or cause the tank to run dry
early.
Not significantly cheaper than dedicated bar oil.
Tackified Bar Oil:
Pros:
Does the best job of lubing the chain - Since I switched there
is noticeably less wear on the bars of my saws, even though I am in a
sandier and dustier area.
Doesn't sling off the bar, so it is still there where you need
it.
You use less, so it partially offsets the higher cost of new
motor oil.
Clean, but it does tend to leave "strings" all over the side of
the saw. Never seems to plug anything up.
Handy, no more messing with a 15 gallon drum of used oil.
Cons:
Price, slightly more expensive than new (cheap) motor oil, but
if bought on sale can be had for essentially the same price.
Sticky - coats your gloves, jeans, boots, truck, whatever you
spill it on. Doesn't want to come off.
Tends to get pretty stiff in cold weather.
Conclusion:
For me, after wearing out a number of saws and bars and chains
using old motor oil, I decided that paying for the "real stuff" was a
good investment. All of the loggers I currently know use it because it
lengthens bar and chain life by allowing them to run cooler and with
less wear. Cooler chains don't stretch as much and don't require as
much maintenance.
My experience since switching is that the tackified oil is well
worth the price. The only drawback I have found is that it gets so
thick in sub-zero (F) weather that you have to thin it to make it
pump. Usually under those conditions I just fall back on *new* motor
oil. I will never go back to the used stuff again.
Your mileage, as always, may vary.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
On 22 Jun 2005 07:27:39 -0700, "dean" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
>Any comments?
>
>Dean
On our old (craftsman) saw, the manual specified 30w motor oil... we gave it a
lot of use for about 6 years and only replaced the chain once..
On our new stihl, the dealer gave me 4 quarts of stihl chain saw oil at cost, if
I promised not to use motor oil later.. lol
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Duane Bozarth wrote:
> > PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
> > ...
> >
> >>Back to the oil--always seems to dissappear within a year or so from my
> >>gravel drive, and I find it hard to believe its all being washed away by
the
> >>rain...
> >>
> >
> > The area where we drained oil from tractors and trucks from as far back
> > as the 20s until toughly the 70s or 80s is now covered in grass and is
> > indistinguishable from that area surrounding it...when I was a kid it
> > looked like almost like a paved road. It's broken down pretty well.
> > Not a smart thing to have done, certainly, and I suspect a soil sample
> > would show some residual, but certainly doesn't appear permanent....
>
> Actually, the soil compression from logging is
> probably overall more harmful than any petroleum
> spills, fish excepted.
Around here, ( a mountainous region and fairly near to the pacific ocean )
one of the biggest problems with logging is the soil erosion and subsequent
sedimention occuring in the the rivers and streams...( salmon spawing
habitat--if you bury them eggs then the little fisheys don't got much of a
chance )
--
SVL
On 27 Jun 2005 07:13:50 -0700, "Harry K" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>
>Charlie Self wrote:
>> Tom Quackenbush wrote:
>> > gfulton wrote:
>> > >Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> > <snip>
>> > >> Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
>> > >> 'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
>> > >> unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
>> > >> until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
>> > >> mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
>> > >> was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
>> > >> of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
>> > >> suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
>> > >> instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
>> > >> that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Thank you for injecting some sanity into this discussion.
>> >
>> > Well sure, but "sanity" makes for a pretty short discussion, now,
>> > doesn't it?
>> >
>> > I'm also not sure what carcinogenic (sp ?) risk is involved in
>> > handling used motor oil.
>> >
>> Probably no more than just being born. I know a guy who used old motor
>> oil for a number of things, from (he thought) preserving fence posts to
>> sun tan oil. He's been doing both for upwards of 40 years with no
>> apparent ill effects.
>>
>> My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
>> thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
>> the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
>> chain.
>
>That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
>to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
>know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
>my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
>to use motor oil.
>
>Harry K
Well, if I was in the business of selling branded "special" bar oil at
twice the price of cheap motor oil I'd put that in my instruction
manual too.
"Ashton Crusher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:15:31 -0400, "Al Reid"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >> In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > news:[email protected]...
> >> >> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30
engine
> >> >> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> >> >> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
> >> >>
> >> >> Any comments?
> >> >
> >> >I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
> >> >
> >> No, not really.
> >>
> >> The suspended solids and other junk (such as combustion byproducts) in
used
> >> motor oil don't do either the bar or the chain any good. That gunk is
better
> >> off being recycled and disposed of properly.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Regards,
> >> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
> >>
> >> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his
butt.
> >> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
> >
> >Doug,
> >
> >I have never actually put used motor oil in my saws, although I have been
told that it can be done. I was just testing a theory
> >that if I said I did that Doug Miller would be the first one to tell me
that I was wrong to do so.
> >
> >Theory proven correct ;^)
>
>
> Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
> 'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
> unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
> until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
> mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
> was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
> of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
> suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
> instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
> that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.
Thank you for injecting some sanity into this discussion.
Garrett Fulton
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Doug Miller wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Doug Miller wrote:
> >>>....
> >>>
> >>>>The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine
> >>>
> >>>particles
> >>>
> >>>>of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust.
> >>>>Surely
> >>>>you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the
> >>>>chain
> >>>>and bar.
> >>>
> >>>A lot of the chips and dust are wood, but a lot isn't--the inevitable
> >>>dirt and other grime is at least as abrasive as the much smaller
> >>>diameter particles that made it through the engine oil filter...after
> >>>all, you wouldn't be particularly concerned to run your auto another 500
> >>>or even 1000 miles above the 3000 mi mark if you were on a trip and
> >>>needed that to get home for a more convenient oil change, would you?
> >>>The lube requirements of any modern engine are <far> more onerous...
> >>
> >>
> >> Just the same, it should be obvious that you're not doing your chain saw
> >> any
> >> good by running used motor oil through it.
> >>
> >
> >Doug, it just goes on the bar, it doesn't go
> >through the motor. One touch into the dirt with
> >the bar and you are far worse off than anything
> >dirty motor oil would do to the bar.
>
> Yes, George, I know it just goes on the bar. Are you really having such a
> hard
> time understanding that used, dirty oil doesn't lubricate as well as new,
> clean oil?
I'm wondering which part of "The first time the tip touches dirt even
for an instant, you've just put more crap on the bar than any amount of
used motor oil possibly could" you can't comprehend.
Face it, Doug, waste oil is perfectly fine as bar oil, despite your
bleating to the contrary.
(And the greenies who might want to cry about it are perfectly welcome
to go suck rocks.)
--
Don Bruder - [email protected] - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.
"Harry K" <[email protected]> wrote:
-snip-
>That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
>to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
>know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
>my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
>to use motor oil.
Bottom line is to use what the saw manual says. My Remington electric
says "Do not use bar and chain oil" -- They recommend 30weight motor
oil.
Jim
Elmo wrote:
> Duane Bozarth wrote:
>
>> PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Back to the oil--always seems to dissappear within a year or so from my
>>> gravel drive, and I find it hard to believe its all being washed away
>>> by the
>>> rain...
>>>
>>
>> The area where we drained oil from tractors and trucks from as far back
>> as the 20s until toughly the 70s or 80s is now covered in grass and is
>> indistinguishable from that area surrounding it...when I was a kid it
>> looked like almost like a paved road. It's broken down pretty well.
>> Not a smart thing to have done, certainly, and I suspect a soil sample
>> would show some residual, but certainly doesn't appear permanent....
>
>
> As I understand it, the problem is not so much what it does to the soil
> that it leaches through as what it does to the water table when it gets
> down there.
>
>
>
Its not like the 'water table' is a big glass lined tank (like the
Latrobe brewery - 33) all shiny and clean. And I was thinking, where
does all that nasty oil come from in the first place? Down there in the
ground. I say, set it free, let it return home!!!
AL
gfulton wrote:
>Ashton Crusher wrote:
<snip>
>> Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
>> 'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
>> unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
>> until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
>> mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
>> was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
>> of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
>> suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
>> instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
>> that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.
>
>
>Thank you for injecting some sanity into this discussion.
Well sure, but "sanity" makes for a pretty short discussion, now,
doesn't it?
I'm also not sure what carcinogenic (sp ?) risk is involved in
handling used motor oil.
R,
Tom Q.
--
Remove bogusinfo to reply.
Juergen Hannappel wrote:
> "dean" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
>
> The oil on the chain will be distributed in you environment it's
> totally unacceptable to use a non-biodegradable oil for lubricating
> the saw. The pro's you have seen obviously don't care a dam about the
> rest of the world and should be [insert punishment of choice]...
>
Yep, the best is peanut oil, second best is cotton
seed oil, last is corn oil. ;)
On 22 Jun 2005 07:27:39 -0700, "dean" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>oil.
Scrotum or bladder cancer. No thanks ! Whatever you use as an oil,
you're also breathing it as an aerosol. I won't use engine oil and I
certainly won't use used engine oil.
There's also the issue of staining valuable timber with it.
"Modat22" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> >what in the world makes you think oil is not biodegradable?
> >
> >
>
>
> Asphalt releases more oil into the environment than chain saws ever
> will.
The county road crews around here routinely spray water based asphalt
emulsion onto the roads and then top coat with rock chips...
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1992/bacteria-0401.html
--
SVL
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "PrecisionMachinisT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > In fact, many municipalitys are now requiring a "grassy swale area" in
> order
> > that any oily runoff from parking lots, subdivisions, and other such
> largely
> > paved-over areas be allowed time in order to bio-process before the
water
> > leaches back into the soil in recharging the local aquifer.
> >
>
> Well, no. Mostly that's to allow the runoff from storms to get into the
> ground rather than the sewers. You get fined for excessive flow of
> untreated sewage from your plant, and a storm overloads the system fast.
>
These all flow into a simple french drain...
If it weren't for the presence of contaminants then what need for the gently
sloped grassy swale???
Might as well just line a trough with concrete....
--
SVL
Garrett Fulton wrote:
> "Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>
> wrote:
>
>>>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>....
>>>>
>>>>>The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine
>>>>
>>>>particles
>>>>
>>>>>of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust.
>
> Surely
>
>>>>>you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the
>
> chain
>
>>>>>and bar.
>>>>
>>>>A lot of the chips and dust are wood, but a lot isn't--the inevitable
>>>>dirt and other grime is at least as abrasive as the much smaller
>>>>diameter particles that made it through the engine oil filter...after
>>>>all, you wouldn't be particularly concerned to run your auto another
>
> 500
>
>>>>or even 1000 miles above the 3000 mi mark if you were on a trip and
>>>>needed that to get home for a more convenient oil change, would you?
>>>>The lube requirements of any modern engine are <far> more onerous...
>>>
>>>Just the same, it should be obvious that you're not doing your chain saw
>
> any
>
>>>good by running used motor oil through it.
>>
>>By the same token, I don't think it at all obvious there would be much
>>difference observable one way or the other as opposed to clean motor
>>oil...
>>
>>Seems to me like the "stale gas" thread or the "diluted 2-cycle gas in
>>4-cycle engine" threads of recent history... :(
>
>
> Duane,
> I've got a 25 yr. old Poulan that has an 18 yr. old bar. I've used the
> hell out of that saw on_big_trees over the years. Only reason I changed the
> bar was it got bent when a tree pinched it when I was cutting on a hillside.
> I've always filled the bar oil tank with used motor oil. My chains last a
> long time and it should be evident that it sure didn't do any damage to the
> bar. I do pump the oiler quite a bit on the saw and keep the bar well
> lubed. Now................................wait for it.
> Some horse's ass will tell me I'm spreading carcinogens to the little forest
> creatures who might come and lick the stump that has used motor oil on it.
>
> Garrett Fulton
>
>
Not to worry. The government had identified the
air in pine forests as exceeding the allowable
aromatics, so the little suckers will die of
cancer from the pine smell anyway.
"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> If you don't mind how it looks, I've used elastic off of an old pair
> of underwear to replace the elastic on a pair of safety goggles.
Probably be more of a consideration where they came from than how the look.
:)
Charlie Self wrote:
> My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
> thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
> the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
> chain.
>
Hmmm, *my* motorcycle doesn't have a self oiling chain??? SO! To keep it
lubricated and keep the o-rings supple it is necessary to use a lube
that doesn't throw off. The chainsaw however has a continuous flow of
oil to the chain. Using used motor oil instead of thicker bar oil just
means refilling the oil reserve more often.
If you want to see a rant thread get going just toss out a few ideas on
disposing of 1 gal of year old gasoline - that *really* flushes out the
nutcases!
AL
Harry K wrote:
>
((snipped))
>>>>>>My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
>>>>>>thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
>>>>>>the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
>>>>>>chain.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
>>>>>to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
>>>>>know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
>>>>>my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
>>>>>to use motor oil.
>>>>>
>>>>>Harry K
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'll add my two cents. Oh, B.S.! You are talking
>>>>about nothing except metal rubbing on metal, a
>>>>piece of metal riding in a groove, with two pieces
>>>>of metal (the chain) riding on two flat surfaces
>>>>(the bar). The tension is highly variable, not
>>>>only at the beginning but during operation as the
>>>>chain heats up. The chain metal is hardened, the
>>>>bar is fairly hard, but easily draw filed. If you
>>>>need an engineer to figure out the lube, then you
>>>>probably need an engineer to figure out how to
>>>>lube the stick you slide across the floor.
>>>>
>>>>Don't try to embue engineers with God like
>>>>knowledge. The stuff about formulated oil is
>>>>probably nothing but liability wording.
>>>>
>>>>Use oil with some stickum. Are all of you going
>>>>to go to such extensive B.S. in describing what
>>>>kind of grease to use on the bar tip wheel?
>>>
>>>
>>>I presume you follow that advice. Your vehicles must love you for not
>>>following the recommended type oil. After all you know more than the
>>>engineers.
>>>
>>>Harry K
>>>
>>
>>I would guess that you know nothing about modern
>>(even old) engines and bearing tolerances.
>>Otherwise you wouldn't equate a modern engine
>>using the same oil for 5,000 miles with a chain on
>>a blade using replacement oil every few minutes.
>
>
> So in one use you say engineers are full of it and you don't believe
> their recommendations and then in another they are god? Rather
> inconsistent wouldn't you say?
>
> Harry K
>
Good point! Is that what I said? Oh yeah, it was
You that said something about engineers
designing saws to use a specific oil. And I said
you were full of shit. You are on the engineer
kick, not me. Probably no engineers involved in
the oil recommendation, and they certainly didn't
design a saw to use a specific oil (kind of bass
akwards, wouldn't it be?). Maybe a chemist
designed an oil that would work with the saw, but
more likely just somebody that has used a saw, an
accountant, and a lawyer--none of whom probably
know anything about oil formulas. BTW, I have
friends who are engineers, not gods, just people
(note I didn't say men because about half of them
are women) who also don't think they are gods and
none of whom probably give a shit about chainsaws
or the oil that the manufacture recommends for the
bars, but damn if they don't all have cars.
Cheers!
In article <[email protected]>, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <67oue.1643$p%[email protected]>, Don Bruder
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >I'm wondering which part of "The first time the tip touches dirt even
>> >for an instant, you've just put more crap on the bar than any amount of
>> >used motor oil possibly could" you can't comprehend.
>>
>> I generally try to avoid sticking the tip of my chain saw into the dirt.
>>
>> Apparently you're not as careful with yours.
>
>What do you do, pressure wash the bark? Or does the wind not blow and
>carry where you live?
No, I try to avoid sticking the tip into the dirt. Like I said.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>>
>>Any comments?
>
>
> I've seen all sort of crappy oil used, even used motor oil. It works. OTOH,
> I'm still on my first gallon of bar oil that I paid about $5.
>
>
Walmart sells Poulan branded bar oil for less than
$3 per gallon. Still on your first gallon? Don't
use than saw much huh? If you burn wood and get
your own, that gallon of oil will be gone fairly
quickly (or the blade will be gone).
"PrecisionMachinisT" <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Modat22" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > >what in the world makes you think oil is not
biodegradable?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Asphalt releases more oil into the environment than
chain saws ever
> > will.
>
> The county road crews around here routinely spray water
based asphalt
> emulsion onto the roads and then top coat with rock
chips...
>
> http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1992/bacteria-0401.html
>
>
Interesting. Now I'm thinking of a new version of "Beano" .
. .
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
> ...
>
>>Back to the oil--always seems to dissappear within a year or so from my
>>gravel drive, and I find it hard to believe its all being washed away by the
>>rain...
>>
>
> The area where we drained oil from tractors and trucks from as far back
> as the 20s until toughly the 70s or 80s is now covered in grass and is
> indistinguishable from that area surrounding it...when I was a kid it
> looked like almost like a paved road. It's broken down pretty well.
> Not a smart thing to have done, certainly, and I suspect a soil sample
> would show some residual, but certainly doesn't appear permanent....
Actually, the soil compression from logging is
probably overall more harmful than any petroleum
spills, fish excepted.
"Tom Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:06:48 GMT, "Tim and Steph" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> | > I had hoped you just <might> see at least a modicum of levity
>> arising in
>> | > the continuing descent into absurdium...alas, if not. I tried.
>> |
>> | We've been waiting for that 'round these parts as long as I can
>> remember. I
>> | don't think Doug ever admits to being wrong. As near as I can tell,
>> his
>> | opinion is the nearest thing to gospel truth. Doug, thanks for
>> setting us
>> | all on the path to righteousness!
>> |
>> | :)
>
> I've been using hair oil in my chain saw for years. The chain always
> stays neat and nicely slicked down, even in a strong wind.
> Occasionally you should take it to a barber for a trim. Some prefer to
> take the chain saw to a beauty parlor for a wash and set, but that's
> for sissies.
Snort!
You mousse that thing, too?
"Norma Desmond" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "PrecisionMachinisT" <[email protected]> wrote
> in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Modat22" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > >what in the world makes you think oil is not
> biodegradable?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Asphalt releases more oil into the environment than
> chain saws ever
> > > will.
> >
> > The county road crews around here routinely spray water
> based asphalt
> > emulsion onto the roads and then top coat with rock
> chips...
> >
> > http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1992/bacteria-0401.html
> >
> >
>
> Interesting. Now I'm thinking of a new version of "Beano" .
>
IIRC, "Beano" is an enzyme.......
FWIW, home distillers ( moonshiners ) are reporting it being as effective as
malt in converting ( hydrolizing ) complex starches into simple sugars.
Potatoes or corn, some yeast and "Beano", and you got yourself some
mash....thinking this also works at a lower temperature than the amalyse (
sp ) too.
===
Back to the oil--always seems to dissappear within a year or so from my
gravel drive, and I find it hard to believe its all being washed away by the
rain...
In fact, many municipalitys are now requiring a "grassy swale area" in order
that any oily runoff from parking lots, subdivisions, and other such largely
paved-over areas be allowed time in order to bio-process before the water
leaches back into the soil in recharging the local aquifer.
--
SVL
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>> >> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>> >> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>> >>
>> >> Any comments?
>> >
>> >I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
>> >
>> No, not really.
>>
>> The suspended solids and other junk (such as combustion byproducts) in used
>> motor oil don't do either the bar or the chain any good. That gunk is better
>> off being recycled and disposed of properly.
>>
>
>Actually, I never thought of it, but I really doubt it's really doing
>any harm--it's not a demanding lubrication problem and the solids
>suspended in the oil aren't anything much to compare to the junk that's
>being collected on the bar anyway...
The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine particles
of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust. Surely
you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the chain
and bar.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>....
>> Then I'm at a total loss to understand where you thought you read that the
> sky
>> is falling.
>
>It's the logical characterization by extension of your absolute position
>which is repeated on a myriad of subjects...
I'm not responsible for you reading things I didn't write.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> >
> So should I be using canola oil, peanut oil, soybean oil, olive oil, or is there
> something better?
>
Husqvarna were selling a bar oil based on vegetable oil. I have recently
heard that the performance was/is considered unsatisfactory but this is
very second hand info, just some guy whose brother does logging in
Bavaria.
Guess it probably would be more environmentally friendly, somewhat.
-P.
Al Reid wrote:
> "dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>>
>>Any comments?
>>
>>Dean
>>
>
>
> I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
>
> --
>
> Al Reid
>
>
Hi,
Get rid of? Wonder where does it end up? You're polluting!
Tony
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "dean" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
>
> Bar & chain oil is a *lot* thicker and stickier than motor oil. This helps it
> stay on the chain. Motor oil will work, but it gets slung off the chain pretty
> quickly, so you have to replenish the oil reservoir more often. And it makes a
> hell of a mess.
Getting slung off the bar doesn't cause the saw to
use more oil. Just means that the bar gets
hotter, unless you dial up the oil flow. 'Course
all you need to do is add a little Motor Honey or
STP additive.
>
> Bottom line: motor oil is cheaper, but you use more of it. I'm guessing it's
> about even, price-wise.
That isn't true either, standard brands of motor
oil are more expensive unless you find a really
good sale.
>
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Good luck with finding the biolube. None of the local dealers stock it.
Same around thing here.......
...BUT...
The restaurant downtown serves up some mighty fine Spotted Owl Soup !!!
--
SVL
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>....
>> The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine
> particles
>> of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust. Surely
>> you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the chain
>> and bar.
>
>A lot of the chips and dust are wood, but a lot isn't--the inevitable
>dirt and other grime is at least as abrasive as the much smaller
>diameter particles that made it through the engine oil filter...after
>all, you wouldn't be particularly concerned to run your auto another 500
>or even 1000 miles above the 3000 mi mark if you were on a trip and
>needed that to get home for a more convenient oil change, would you?
>The lube requirements of any modern engine are <far> more onerous...
Just the same, it should be obvious that you're not doing your chain saw any
good by running used motor oil through it.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>,
Modat22 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >what in the world makes you think oil is not biodegradable?
> >
> >
>
>
> Asphalt releases more oil into the environment than chain saws ever
> will.
Never mind the hundred-plus years worth of oil-leaking jalopies that
have been driven on those asphalt roads...
--
Don Bruder - [email protected] - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.
Harry K wrote:
>
> George E. Cawthon wrote:
>
>>Harry K wrote:
>>
>>>Charlie Self wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tom Quackenbush wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>gfulton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
>>>>>>>'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
>>>>>>>unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
>>>>>>>until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
>>>>>>>mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
>>>>>>>was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
>>>>>>>of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
>>>>>>>suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
>>>>>>>instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
>>>>>>>that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you for injecting some sanity into this discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well sure, but "sanity" makes for a pretty short discussion, now,
>>>>>doesn't it?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm also not sure what carcinogenic (sp ?) risk is involved in
>>>>>handling used motor oil.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Probably no more than just being born. I know a guy who used old motor
>>>>oil for a number of things, from (he thought) preserving fence posts to
>>>>sun tan oil. He's been doing both for upwards of 40 years with no
>>>>apparent ill effects.
>>>>
>>>>My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
>>>>thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
>>>>the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
>>>>chain.
>>>
>>>
>>>That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
>>>to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
>>>know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
>>>my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
>>>to use motor oil.
>>>
>>>Harry K
>>>
>>
>>I'll add my two cents. Oh, B.S.! You are talking
>>about nothing except metal rubbing on metal, a
>>piece of metal riding in a groove, with two pieces
>>of metal (the chain) riding on two flat surfaces
>>(the bar). The tension is highly variable, not
>>only at the beginning but during operation as the
>>chain heats up. The chain metal is hardened, the
>>bar is fairly hard, but easily draw filed. If you
>>need an engineer to figure out the lube, then you
>>probably need an engineer to figure out how to
>>lube the stick you slide across the floor.
>>
>>Don't try to embue engineers with God like
>>knowledge. The stuff about formulated oil is
>>probably nothing but liability wording.
>>
>>Use oil with some stickum. Are all of you going
>>to go to such extensive B.S. in describing what
>>kind of grease to use on the bar tip wheel?
>
>
> I presume you follow that advice. Your vehicles must love you for not
> following the recommended type oil. After all you know more than the
> engineers.
>
> Harry K
>
I would guess that you know nothing about modern
(even old) engines and bearing tolerances.
Otherwise you wouldn't equate a modern engine
using the same oil for 5,000 miles with a chain on
a blade using replacement oil every few minutes.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>> >Doug Miller wrote:
>> >....snip...
>> >
>> >Can't you see we're mostly simply pulling your "sky is falling"
>> >chain??? :)
>>
>> I'm not sure what you think you read. I never said anything beyond stating
>> what is, or should be, self-evidently obvious: that new oil is a better
>> lubricant than used oil, and that oils specifically formulated for a
>> particular purpose are better suited to that purpose than oils which are not.
>
>I read your typical reaction to a suggestion...
Then I'm at a total loss to understand where you thought you read that the sky
is falling.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> Juergen Hannappel wrote:
>
>>"dean" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>>>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>>>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>>
>>The oil on the chain will be distributed in you environment it's
>>totally unacceptable to use a non-biodegradable oil for lubricating
>>the saw. The pro's you have seen obviously don't care a dam about the
>>rest of the world and should be [insert punishment of choice]...
>
>
> Well, they <are> cutting trees, aren't they, the scum... :)
Yeah the dirty scum, of course a lot of the
smaller trees (15-16 inch diameter) are just
snipped off (no chainsaws) and the branches just
knocked off by pulling the log through a
"debrancher." Of course, if you look around a
logging site you will find diesel fuel spills,
hydraulic oil spills, gasoline spills, etc.
>
> I really doubt the base of bar oil is any different than that for engine
> oil...just viscosity and (perhaps) some specific additives, but I'd not
> expect much there as the lubrication requirements are not onerous in
> terms of temperature, pressure, tolerances, etc.
Actually they use sperm oil; no wonder the whales
are disappearing. Guess they will have to switch
to bovine oil or lard. Just think of cutting the
trees to the smell of frying bacon.
In misc.rural dean <[email protected]> wrote:
> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
> Any comments?
I use Poulan bar oil from Walmart. Its 30 weight with a tackifier (sp?) in
it so it sticks to the chain better than motor oil. Since it doesn't have
any of the additives needed to keep an engine clean, its cheaper than motor
oil too.
Juergen Hannappel wrote:
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>>What gets contaminated in ground water or "aquifer" if you prefer.
>>There's another common mistake "ground water aquifer" because ground
>>water and aquifer mean the same thing. Oops, guess the old editor job
>>just spilled out.
>
>
> <mode="nitpick">
> Isn't the aquifer rather the structure in the ground that contains the
> ground water than the water itself? The word certainly means that (it
> would be something like "water carrier").
> </mode>
> ;-)
> Juergen
>
Technically, you are correct. But you can't have
groundwater without an aquifer and you can't have
an aquifer without groundwater. So ground water
aquifer is still redundant. In common usage,
aquifer is used interchangeably with ground water.
But stupidities abound as I saw in my dictionary.
They define aquifer spring. It should be quite
obvious that all springs are simply groundwater
coming to the surface. So springs necessarily
require an aquifer.
In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>>
>> Any comments?
>
>I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
>
No, not really.
The suspended solids and other junk (such as combustion byproducts) in used
motor oil don't do either the bar or the chain any good. That gunk is better
off being recycled and disposed of properly.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
"Elmo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> So should I be using canola oil, peanut oil, soybean oil, olive oil, or is
> there something better?
>
Stihl, for one, does have a vegetable based oil
> I few years back I helped a guy convert some wood using an
> Alaskan chian saw mill. He used some sort of vegetable oils
> in the gas and on the bar. The manufacturer claimed (of
> course) that these were better lubricants than their
> petroleum-based counterparts. This guy used them because
> the apararatus put the operators face near the exhaust and
> the vegetable oils made the environment less unpleasant.
>
> A good respirator helped more though.
Yikes - I'm already wearing a helmet, face shield, glasses and earmuffs -
how'd he fit in a respirator? I don't think mine would fit under the face
sheild.
Maybe I should get this?
http://store1.yimg.com/I/apsonline_1845_1265324/apsonline_1845_1265324.jpg
:)
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>> >Doug Miller wrote:
>> >....
>> >> Then I'm at a total loss to understand where you thought you read that the
>> > sky
>> >> is falling.
>> >
>> >It's the logical characterization by extension of your absolute position
>> >which is repeated on a myriad of subjects...
>>
>> I'm not responsible for you reading things I didn't write.
>
>Nor am for your apparent inability to recognize patterns revealed by
>repeated specific actions.... :)
I'm certainly picking up a pattern in *your* posts...
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Harry K wrote:
>
> George E. Cawthon wrote:
>
>>Harry K wrote:
>>
>>((snipped))
>>
>>>>>>>>My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
>>>>>>>>thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
>>>>>>>>the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
>>>>>>>>chain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
>>>>>>>to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
>>>>>>>know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
>>>>>>>my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
>>>>>>>to use motor oil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Harry K
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'll add my two cents. Oh, B.S.! You are talking
>>>>>>about nothing except metal rubbing on metal, a
>>>>>>piece of metal riding in a groove, with two pieces
>>>>>>of metal (the chain) riding on two flat surfaces
>>>>>>(the bar). The tension is highly variable, not
>>>>>>only at the beginning but during operation as the
>>>>>>chain heats up. The chain metal is hardened, the
>>>>>>bar is fairly hard, but easily draw filed. If you
>>>>>>need an engineer to figure out the lube, then you
>>>>>>probably need an engineer to figure out how to
>>>>>>lube the stick you slide across the floor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Don't try to embue engineers with God like
>>>>>>knowledge. The stuff about formulated oil is
>>>>>>probably nothing but liability wording.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Use oil with some stickum. Are all of you going
>>>>>>to go to such extensive B.S. in describing what
>>>>>>kind of grease to use on the bar tip wheel?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I presume you follow that advice. Your vehicles must love you for not
>>>>>following the recommended type oil. After all you know more than the
>>>>>engineers.
>>>>>
>>>>>Harry K
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I would guess that you know nothing about modern
>>>>(even old) engines and bearing tolerances.
>>>>Otherwise you wouldn't equate a modern engine
>>>>using the same oil for 5,000 miles with a chain on
>>>>a blade using replacement oil every few minutes.
>>>
>>>
>>>So in one use you say engineers are full of it and you don't believe
>>>their recommendations and then in another they are god? Rather
>>>inconsistent wouldn't you say?
>>>
>>>Harry K
>>>
>>
>>Good point! Is that what I said? Oh yeah, it was
>> You that said something about engineers
>>designing saws to use a specific oil. And I said
>>you were full of shit. You are on the engineer
>>kick, not me. Probably no engineers involved in
>>the oil recommendation, and they certainly didn't
>>design a saw to use a specific oil (kind of bass
>>akwards, wouldn't it be?). Maybe a chemist
>>designed an oil that would work with the saw, but
>>more likely just somebody that has used a saw, an
>>accountant, and a lawyer--none of whom probably
>>know anything about oil formulas. BTW, I have
>>friends who are engineers, not gods, just people
>>(note I didn't say men because about half of them
>>are women) who also don't think they are gods and
>>none of whom probably give a shit about chainsaws
>>or the oil that the manufacture recommends for the
>>bars, but damn if they don't all have cars.
>>Cheers!
>
>
> Rather straining there aren't you. I don't see that I said anything
> about a "specific" oil. Only that a "specific type" of oil, (e.g.,
> bar/chain oil) was specified. You then went into a rant about
> engineers, not me.
>
> Harry K
>
Like trying to talk to a 6 year (especially one
with no sense of humor). Merry Christmas and don't
take any wooden nickels form doctors.
Modat22 wrote:
>>>The oil on the chain will be distributed in you environment it's
>>>totally unacceptable to use a non-biodegradable oil for lubricating
>>>the saw. The pro's you have seen obviously don't care a dam about the
>>>rest of the world and should be [insert punishment of choice]...
>>>
>>
>>So should I be using canola oil, peanut oil, soybean oil, olive oil, or is there
>>something better?
>
>
> There is a resin based bar lube that is bio safe but it will turn to a
> solid if you left it sit too long.
>
Oh that sounds like a good alternative!
dean wrote:
> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
> Any comments?
>
> Dean
>
Huh? Bar oil is CHEAPER than 10W30 oil, if you are
buying regular 10W30. If you have excess or
essentially free 10W30 add a few ounces of Motor
Honey per gallon of oil to hold it on the bar.
There is nothing special about bar oil in the way
of lubrication.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> HeadHunter wrote:
>> "dean" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Because every professional user I have ever seen is using
>> > 10W30 engine oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my
>> > Stihls but I was just wondering if I am wasting money on
>> > expensive bar oil?
>> >
>> > Any comments?
>>
>>
>> Skipping the big long thread in the middle on this.
>>
>> I have only ever put USED motor oil for my bar oil. I have 2 stihls
>> that are about 20 and 13 years old respectfully. I have replaced
>> the oil pumps in each saw once for 70~80 dollars Canadian, parts and
>> labour each time. Each saw is expected to cut and rip about 60~75
>> cords of firewood each year. I do believe I have saved good amount
>> of money over the last 20 years by using used motor oil and getting
>> new pumps rather than using new motor oil or bar oil.
>>
>> It works for me.
>
>
> Used motor oil contains various carcinogens and slowly makes its way
> down to groundwater. Why use it to save 25 cents a day?
Well the bar oil is pretty damn expensive in Canada. prolly more like a 33
to 40 cents a day difference.
I cut firewood for a decent second income. I figure my work season, not
including rainy days, when I just split or clean brush is 100 days a year.
I spend about 30 days actually delivering to bring it up to 130. If I use
my saws, (I use a smaller stihl bar and motor for smaller work) for those
100 days of work that 33 cents is 33 dollars for one year. I do believe I
have been doing firewood at the same pace for 20 years, BUT for accuracy
sake lets go down to 15 years. That 15 years = 495 dollars. I have spent
about 160 in repairs to the oil pumps so my REAL savings is 335 dollars.
If I save 33 dollars a year on one aspect of my side project, imagine what
saving 33 dollars a year on several aspects can amount too. I use gasoline
tractors. If I save 33 dollars a year on gas (not letting them idle for
example while I survey), and save 33 dollars a year on tire repairs to my
trailers (but not hauling wood so fast over rocks) etc etc etc.
As for cancer? I run a cutting tools business where we weld cobalt and
tungsten and molyb bandsaw blades all day. I have to deal with used
threading oil and bandsaw machine inspections and metal filings 40 or 50
hours a week.
As for groundwater I'm in the woods 1/2 to 2 miles from my artesian spring
well. My concern for local groundwater ends there. By the time groundwater
makes off my property into the two drainage areas, I have always assumed
mother nature has filtered it. The simple act of burning firewood cause far
more environmental damage than throwing oil on the ground.
You raised good points but when I count pennies and nickels on my firewood
sales just like I do in my cutting tools sales, used motor oil provides a
savings. So Yes it is worth it.
HeadHunter
> I had hoped you just <might> see at least a modicum of levity arising in
> the continuing descent into absurdium...alas, if not. I tried.
We've been waiting for that 'round these parts as long as I can remember. I
don't think Doug ever admits to being wrong. As near as I can tell, his
opinion is the nearest thing to gospel truth. Doug, thanks for setting us
all on the path to righteousness!
:)
Juergen Hannappel wrote:
> "dean" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
>
> The oil on the chain will be distributed in you environment it's
> totally unacceptable to use a non-biodegradable oil for lubricating
> the saw. The pro's you have seen obviously don't care a dam about the
> rest of the world and should be [insert punishment of choice]...
>
So should I be using canola oil, peanut oil, soybean oil, olive oil, or is there
something better?
--
Proud member of the reality-based community.
Doug Miller wrote:
> <snip>
>
>The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine particles
>of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust. Surely
>you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the chain
>and bar.
>
>
>
Hey Doug,
Check this out as for the hardness of wood. Check out the third
picture down!! http://www.xmission.com/~tmathews/b29/e.html
> > Are you a jerk in real life, too, or just on Usenet?
> > Regards,
> > Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
> ROFLMAO!
:)
"if a guy doesn't figure he's as much of an asshole as half
the guys out there he prob'ly ain't thinkin so good" -alvin
What I see, most guys figure they are in the top 1% of "good guys"
or so! :(
Leads to trouble, one perfect little momma's boy dealing with
another perfect little momma's boy.
If they figured they were so "good" that they fit in the top 10% I
could go along with that if they were a fairy. I figure the top 10%
of "good" guys out there are all fairies. Are you a fairy? ;)
It's ok if you are, I'm not making a judgement on that, ok?
You judge yourself.
When a guy uses the word "proper" it kind of gives me the creeps.
That was my grandma's word and the way she saw everything, in terms
of "proper" or not. Never knew guys used that word until I got on
usenet. :/
You find it kind of creepy?
Or is it just me? :/
Alvin a real asshole (typical dumb-ass guy) in AZ
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
> ...
>
>>Back to the oil--always seems to dissappear within a year or so from my
>>gravel drive, and I find it hard to believe its all being washed away by the
>>rain...
>>
>
> The area where we drained oil from tractors and trucks from as far back
> as the 20s until toughly the 70s or 80s is now covered in grass and is
> indistinguishable from that area surrounding it...when I was a kid it
> looked like almost like a paved road. It's broken down pretty well.
> Not a smart thing to have done, certainly, and I suspect a soil sample
> would show some residual, but certainly doesn't appear permanent....
As I understand it, the problem is not so much what it does to the soil that it
leaches through as what it does to the water table when it gets down there.
--
Proud member of the reality-based community.
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> <snip>
>
>They flew a 29 out here for display and even a few sightseeing flights
>over Memorial Day. <snip>
>
Not "a B-29" but the ONLY flying B-29. Also known as "Fifi" operated by
the Commerative Air Force out of Texas. There is one in Witchita at the
Boeing facility being restored to flying status, but it is still a few
years off. http://b-29.boeing.com/ So, out of the 4000 or so made,
only a dozen or so exist on display at museums around the country, one
is being restored to fly, and one flys. The rest were scrapped or used
for target practice by the Navy at China Lake.
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> Elmo wrote:
>
>>Duane Bozarth wrote:
>>
>>>PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
>>>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Back to the oil--always seems to dissappear within a year or so from my
>>>>gravel drive, and I find it hard to believe its all being washed away by the
>>>>rain...
>>>>
>>>
>>>The area where we drained oil from tractors and trucks from as far back
>>>as the 20s until toughly the 70s or 80s is now covered in grass and is
>>>indistinguishable from that area surrounding it...when I was a kid it
>>>looked like almost like a paved road. It's broken down pretty well.
>>>Not a smart thing to have done, certainly, and I suspect a soil sample
>>>would show some residual, but certainly doesn't appear permanent....
>>
>>As I understand it, the problem is not so much what it does to the soil that it
>>leaches through as what it does to the water table when it gets down there.
>
>
> Certainly where there is either a pathway or the underground aquifers
> are surface-replenished, that's an issue. Here the aquifer is not
> surface-renewed at any significant rate at all, and while there are
> areas where surface contamination can penetrate (abandoned unplugged
> oil/gas wells being the prime culprit), there aren't any of those in
> this particular location.
It may not reach _your_ aquifer but it's gotta go someplace. (Unless you're in
a Death Valley type hole.)
>
> Not justifying what was (although common in the time) a poor choice,
> simply noting it does appear that a great deal of recovery has occurred
> in a relatively short time since the action ceased....
I know. It's really amazing how quickly biological systems can recover when
they are not overwhelmed by too much for too long.
--
Proud member of the reality-based community.
>In article <[email protected]>,
> "Gideon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Who the hell let's the bar or chain hit the dirt?
That's "lets"...
I got dirt on my chain several times recently while cutting some trees off
right at the ground. The chain got dull, but I got done what I wanted.
-Mike
On 22 Jun 2005 07:27:39 -0700, "dean" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
>Any comments?
>
>Dean
I use stihl bar lube and stp mixed 10 to 1, it might sound silly but
my chain seems to stay sharp longer with less stretch. I cut alot of
locust trees for posts and firewood each season.
In article <67oue.1643$p%[email protected]>, Don Bruder <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm wondering which part of "The first time the tip touches dirt even
>for an instant, you've just put more crap on the bar than any amount of
>used motor oil possibly could" you can't comprehend.
I generally try to avoid sticking the tip of my chain saw into the dirt.
Apparently you're not as careful with yours.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "dean"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>>>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>>>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
>
>>
>>
>> Bar & chain oil is a *lot* thicker and stickier than motor oil. This helps it
>
>> stay on the chain. Motor oil will work, but it gets slung off the chain
> pretty
>> quickly, so you have to replenish the oil reservoir more often. And it makes
> a
>> hell of a mess.
>
>Getting slung off the bar doesn't cause the saw to
>use more oil. Just means that the bar gets
>hotter,
i.e. it isn't getting adequate lubrication...
>unless you dial up the oil flow.
And obviously if you dial up the oil flow, you use more oil.
>'Course
>all you need to do is add a little Motor Honey or
>STP additive.
Or just use bar & chain oil to start with....
>> Bottom line: motor oil is cheaper, but you use more of it. I'm guessing it's
>> about even, price-wise.
>
>That isn't true either, standard brands of motor
>oil are more expensive unless you find a really
>good sale.
In that case, what possible point is there in using motor oil? More expensive,
and you need more of it, equals "bad idea" from where I stand.
Then there's your suggestion of adding STP... making a more-expensive
alternative even *more* expensive. I'm having trouble understanding why anyone
would want to do that...
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>Well, if I was in the business of selling branded "special" bar oil at
>twice the price of cheap motor oil I'd put that in my instruction
>manual too.
How's that again?
A *gallon* of bar & chain oil at Tractor Supply Company is $3.76 (that's 94
cents a quart). Where are you buying motor oil for 47 cents a quart?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
[email protected] wrote:
> I rented a chainsaw this weekend. Ran out of bar oil,
> went to the rental shop. They filled the bar oil bottle
> with 30w oil because they didn't have any bar oil left.
> This was done by the lead supervisor on the job so it
> must be ok.
>
> Michael
>
That's what the hospital supervisor said about
putting instruments in hydraulic fluid wasn't it?
"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
> Any comments?
>
> Dean
I worked with a professional tree service for 7 years. We used the bar oil
or motor oil . Whatever was available at the time.. Using motor oil never
hurt any saw we had. We used Stihls, we had Huskys, Echos (long time ago).
Never hurt any of them. the main thing is to make sure that the bar gets
oil. Theres a slot that the chain runs in.. sometimes it's good to clean
that out. It can get gunked up a bit. That'll help keep the bar lubed up.
"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
> Any comments?
I've seen all sort of crappy oil used, even used motor oil. It works. OTOH,
I'm still on my first gallon of bar oil that I paid about $5.
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:30:01 GMT, the opaque "George E. Cawthon"
<[email protected]> spake:
>Actually, the soil compression from logging is
>probably overall more harmful than any petroleum
>spills, fish excepted.
Um, if the water table is contaminated by the oil, I'd -much-
rather have soil compression and the resultant fewer trees, TYVM.
-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
>> >> >> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30
>> >> >> engine
>> >> >> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>> >> >> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Any comments?
>> >> >
>> >> >I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
>> >> >
>> >> No, not really.
>> >>
>> >> The suspended solids and other junk (such as combustion byproducts) in
>> >> used
>> >> motor oil don't do either the bar or the chain any good. That gunk is
>> >> better
>> >> off being recycled and disposed of properly.
>> >>
>> >Doug,
>> >
>> >I have never actually put used motor oil in my saws, although I have
>> >been told
>> > that it can be done. I was just testing a theory
>> >that if I said I did that Doug Miller would be the first one to tell me
>> >that I
>> > was wrong to do so.
>> >
>> >Theory proven correct ;^)
>>
>> Are you a jerk in real life, too, or just on Usenet?
>>
Hey AlphaTurd!
If you don't like what he said, then just ignore him. Why can't you play
nice?
(Sad thing is, there was nothing wrong with your post about the oil.)
Who the hell let's the bar or chain hit the dirt?
If you are that careless, then you may as well use water
instead of bar oil.
=================
Don Bruder wrote in message <67oue.1643$p%[email protected]>...
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Doug Miller wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Doug Miller wrote:
> >>>....
> >>>
> >>>>The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine
> >>>
> >>>particles
> >>>
> >>>>of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust.
> >>>>Surely
> >>>>you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the
> >>>>chain
> >>>>and bar.
> >>>
> >>>A lot of the chips and dust are wood, but a lot isn't--the inevitable
> >>>dirt and other grime is at least as abrasive as the much smaller
> >>>diameter particles that made it through the engine oil filter...after
> >>>all, you wouldn't be particularly concerned to run your auto another 500
> >>>or even 1000 miles above the 3000 mi mark if you were on a trip and
> >>>needed that to get home for a more convenient oil change, would you?
> >>>The lube requirements of any modern engine are <far> more onerous...
> >>
> >>
> >> Just the same, it should be obvious that you're not doing your chain saw
> >> any
> >> good by running used motor oil through it.
> >>
> >
> >Doug, it just goes on the bar, it doesn't go
> >through the motor. One touch into the dirt with
> >the bar and you are far worse off than anything
> >dirty motor oil would do to the bar.
>
> Yes, George, I know it just goes on the bar. Are you really having such a
> hard
> time understanding that used, dirty oil doesn't lubricate as well as new,
> clean oil?
I'm wondering which part of "The first time the tip touches dirt even
for an instant, you've just put more crap on the bar than any amount of
used motor oil possibly could" you can't comprehend.
Face it, Doug, waste oil is perfectly fine as bar oil, despite your
bleating to the contrary.
(And the greenies who might want to cry about it are perfectly welcome
to go suck rocks.)
--
Don Bruder - [email protected] - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.
>> The oil on the chain will be distributed in you environment it's
>> totally unacceptable to use a non-biodegradable oil for lubricating
>> the saw. The pro's you have seen obviously don't care a dam about the
>> rest of the world and should be [insert punishment of choice]...
>>
>So should I be using canola oil, peanut oil, soybean oil, olive oil, or is there
>something better?
There is a resin based bar lube that is bio safe but it will turn to a
solid if you left it sit too long.
In article <[email protected]>,
AL <[email protected]> wrote:
> If you want to see a rant thread get going just toss out a few ideas on
> disposing of 1 gal of year old gasoline - that *really* flushes out the
> nutcases!
Anything wrong with pouring it into your vehicle's tank (as long as
we're not talking diesel) and then diluting with more fresh gas?
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
In article
<[email protected]>,
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> That's what the hospital supervisor said about
> putting instruments in hydraulic fluid wasn't it?
Now, now George. The elevator maintenance guys put the used hydraulic
fluid in empty bottles that were thrown out after the docs, nurses,
medical techs or whomever used the original fluid that was intended for
instrument contact. First off, the repair crew erred in not relabeling
the bottles as containing something other than what the labels said.
Secondly, they left them in a location in which someone else would
appropriately and reasonably assume the bottles contained what they said
they did.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
In article <%[email protected]>,
"HeadHunter" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have only ever put USED motor oil for my bar oil. I have 2 stihls that are
> about 20 and 13 years old respectfully. I have replaced the oil pumps in
> each saw once for 70~80 dollars Canadian, parts and labour each time. Each
> saw is expected to cut and rip about 60~75 cords of firewood each year. I
> do believe I have saved good amount of money over the last 20 years by using
> used motor oil and getting new pumps rather than using new motor oil or bar
> oil.
>
> It works for me.
Damn, my chainsaw is bankrupting me. I only use Mobil 1 synthetic -
gotta buy it by the gallons. I'm looking into getting it by the drum.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
I dont use bar oil, I just take my chainsaw to the bar when I go out
drinking. That way if anyone fucks with me, I can chop them to bits.
Human bodies are self lubricating when chopped up !!!!
On 22 Jun 2005 07:27:39 -0700, "dean" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
>Any comments?
>
>Dean
In article <[email protected]>,
"Gideon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Who the hell let's the bar or chain hit the dirt?
> If you are that careless, then you may as well use water
> instead of bar oil.
So, besides being a top-posting moron, you're also absolutely perfect,
and have never, under any circumstances, for any reason, *EVER* hit dirt
while cutting, eh?
Damn... You're a GOD!
--
Don Bruder - [email protected] - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>....
>>
>>>The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine
>>
>>particles
>>
>>>of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust. Surely
>>>you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the chain
>>>and bar.
>>
>>A lot of the chips and dust are wood, but a lot isn't--the inevitable
>>dirt and other grime is at least as abrasive as the much smaller
>>diameter particles that made it through the engine oil filter...after
>>all, you wouldn't be particularly concerned to run your auto another 500
>>or even 1000 miles above the 3000 mi mark if you were on a trip and
>>needed that to get home for a more convenient oil change, would you?
>>The lube requirements of any modern engine are <far> more onerous...
>
>
> Just the same, it should be obvious that you're not doing your chain saw any
> good by running used motor oil through it.
>
Doug, it just goes on the bar, it doesn't go
through the motor. One touch into the dirt with
the bar and you are far worse off than anything
dirty motor oil would do to the bar.
In alt.home.repair Jim Elbrecht <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Harry K" <[email protected]> wrote:
> -snip-
> >That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
> >to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
> >know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
> >my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
> >to use motor oil.
Specific warnings are one thing, (and of course, you have no idea if the
eningeers put that in, or if marketing put that in) but I can tell you as
an engineer that I'm most likely to reccomend that you only use a certain
stuff not becuase I know it's the best, or the only thing that's good, but
becuase people will go and pour concentrated sulfuric acid and iron
filings in and then complain about it.
> Bottom line is to use what the saw manual says. My Remington electric
> says "Do not use bar and chain oil" -- They recommend 30weight motor
> oil.
If they don't say why, then you've got to take that with a grain of salt.
Of course, if you have no other opinons, you may as well do that, but I
know from personal experience that manuals are hardly the be all and end
all of the situation. They're only oocasionally even authoratative.
John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Mean People Suck - It takes two deviations to get cool.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
dean wrote:
>> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30
>> engine oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was
>> just wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>>
>> Any comments?
Used 10W30 in my Stihl from the time I bought it until it was
"borrowed" by an uninvited guest - about five- years - and it worked
well for me.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
In article <[email protected]>, "toller" <[email protected]>
wrote
wrote nothing worth reading, as usual...
Hey, Wade, when are you going to outgrow the junior-high-school name-calling?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>> >> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>> >> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>> >>
>> >> Any comments?
>> >
>> >I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
>> >
>> No, not really.
>>
>> The suspended solids and other junk (such as combustion byproducts) in used
>> motor oil don't do either the bar or the chain any good. That gunk is better
>> off being recycled and disposed of properly.
>>
>Doug,
>
>I have never actually put used motor oil in my saws, although I have been told
> that it can be done. I was just testing a theory
>that if I said I did that Doug Miller would be the first one to tell me that I
> was wrong to do so.
>
>Theory proven correct ;^)
Are you a jerk in real life, too, or just on Usenet?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:15:31 -0400, "Al Reid"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >"dean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
>> >> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
>> >> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>> >>
>> >> Any comments?
>> >
>> >I put used motor oil in my saw. Good way to get rig of it.
>> >
>> No, not really.
>>
>> The suspended solids and other junk (such as combustion byproducts) in used
>> motor oil don't do either the bar or the chain any good. That gunk is better
>> off being recycled and disposed of properly.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>>
>> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
>> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
>
>Doug,
>
>I have never actually put used motor oil in my saws, although I have been told that it can be done. I was just testing a theory
>that if I said I did that Doug Miller would be the first one to tell me that I was wrong to do so.
>
>Theory proven correct ;^)
Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.
On 3 Jul 2005 09:02:01 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Howver ISTR he used safety glasses instead of a face shield. My
>MSA respirator fits OK under my face shield.
>
>BTW, it needs new elastic, any ideas where to get replacement?
If you don't mind how it looks, I've used elastic off of an old pair
of underwear to replace the elastic on a pair of safety goggles.
Otherwise you can probably get something suitable at a fabric store.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
Re: biolube bar oil
I'd be pretty angry if some stranger (or county agency) decided to spray 10
or 20 gallons of petroleum all over my property. Why should I do it myself?
I switched to biolube two years ago. Any Stihl or Husky dealer can order it.
Yes, they complain about no one else wanting it. Yes, you end up looking
like some green, granola eating, tree-hugging logger (huh?). And yes, they
will special order it if you insist.
I know there is Old School and New School, and I'm probably
pre-Kindergarten. However, if I were purchasing a property, and I discovered
the previous owner had been spraying motor oil all over the place for 20
years, I'd seriously consider walking away. We have haywire environmental
laws out here in California, and the buyer can inherit a cleanup liability.
Bio oil is cheap insurance.
John
Pescadero, CA
>>> It works for me.
>>
>>
>> Used motor oil contains various carcinogens and slowly makes its way
>> down to groundwater. Why use it to save 25 cents a day?
>
> Well the bar oil is pretty damn expensive in Canada. prolly more like a
> 33 to 40 cents a day difference.
>
> I cut firewood for a decent second income. I figure my work season, not
> including rainy days, when I just split or clean brush is 100 days a year.
> I spend about 30 days actually delivering to bring it up to 130. If I use
> my saws, (I use a smaller stihl bar and motor for smaller work) for those
> 100 days of work that 33 cents is 33 dollars for one year. I do believe I
> have been doing firewood at the same pace for 20 years, BUT for accuracy
> sake lets go down to 15 years. That 15 years = 495 dollars. I have spent
> about 160 in repairs to the oil pumps so my REAL savings is 335 dollars.
>
> If I save 33 dollars a year on one aspect of my side project, imagine what
> saving 33 dollars a year on several aspects can amount too. I use
> gasoline tractors. If I save 33 dollars a year on gas (not letting them
> idle for example while I survey), and save 33 dollars a year on tire
> repairs to my trailers (but not hauling wood so fast over rocks) etc etc
> etc.
>
> As for cancer? I run a cutting tools business where we weld cobalt and
> tungsten and molyb bandsaw blades all day. I have to deal with used
> threading oil and bandsaw machine inspections and metal filings 40 or 50
> hours a week.
>
> As for groundwater I'm in the woods 1/2 to 2 miles from my artesian spring
> well. My concern for local groundwater ends there. By the time
> groundwater makes off my property into the two drainage areas, I have
> always assumed mother nature has filtered it. The simple act of burning
> firewood cause far more environmental damage than throwing oil on the
> ground.
>
> You raised good points but when I count pennies and nickels on my firewood
> sales just like I do in my cutting tools sales, used motor oil provides a
> savings. So Yes it is worth it.
>
> HeadHunter
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>>....
>>>
>>>>The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine
>>>
>>>particles
>>>
>>>>of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is wood dust. Surely
>>>>you don't imagine that the two produce the same degree of wear on the chain
>>>>and bar.
>>>
>>>A lot of the chips and dust are wood, but a lot isn't--the inevitable
>>>dirt and other grime is at least as abrasive as the much smaller
>>>diameter particles that made it through the engine oil filter...after
>>>all, you wouldn't be particularly concerned to run your auto another 500
>>>or even 1000 miles above the 3000 mi mark if you were on a trip and
>>>needed that to get home for a more convenient oil change, would you?
>>>The lube requirements of any modern engine are <far> more onerous...
>>
>>
>> Just the same, it should be obvious that you're not doing your chain saw any
>> good by running used motor oil through it.
>>
>
>Doug, it just goes on the bar, it doesn't go
>through the motor. One touch into the dirt with
>the bar and you are far worse off than anything
>dirty motor oil would do to the bar.
Yes, George, I know it just goes on the bar. Are you really having such a hard
time understanding that used, dirty oil doesn't lubricate as well as new,
clean oil?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Mark and Kim Smith wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>>
>> The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine
>> particles of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is
>> wood dust. Surely you don't imagine that the two produce the same
>> degree of wear on the chain and bar.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Hey Doug,
>
> Check this out as for the hardness of wood. Check out the third
> picture down!! http://www.xmission.com/~tmathews/b29/e.html
Interesting site too..
Reminded me of the marvelous PBS Nova program about the attempt to
recover the B-29 "Kee Bird" from Greenland.
IIRC they did something creative with the wheels on that one too. Having
no source of compressed air they filled the tires with propane they had
on hand for cooking.
If you never heard about this 1994-95 rescue attempt and its unhappy
ending, here's a link:
http://b-29s-over-korea.com/shortstories/b29-frozen.htm
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."
Harry K wrote:
>
> AL wrote:
>
>>Charlie Self wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
>>>thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
>>>the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
>>>chain.
>>>
>>
>>Hmmm, *my* motorcycle doesn't have a self oiling chain??? SO! To keep it
>>lubricated and keep the o-rings supple it is necessary to use a lube
>>that doesn't throw off. The chainsaw however has a continuous flow of
>>oil to the chain. Using used motor oil instead of thicker bar oil just
>>means refilling the oil reserve more often.
>>
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>AL
>
>
> So just what do you think happens to a chainsaw chain as it goes over
> the tip of the bar? That's right, it tries to sling oil off just like
> your motorcycle does going around the sprocket. Same reason you want
> some tack additive in the oil. Used motor doesn't have it. Using your
> logic, you should be using used motor oil for your motorcycle chain.
>
> Harry K
>
Try actually reading before responding.
No, my argument is that, since the chainsaw is self oiling with a
constant flow of oil from the resevoir to replace what is thrown off or
dragged off by cutting the wood, it is not as important to have a sticky
oil as it is for a motorcycle chain that receives an occasional oiling
that must adhere to the chain for as long as possible thus making the
sticky oil necessary - whew...
As to whether used motor oil works for chainsaws, just go back up the
thread for proof.
AL
dean affirmed:
| Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30
| engine oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was
| just wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
Dean...
Judging from the length of this thread and the amount of new
information conveyed, it must be the solstice, a full moon, or too hot
to work in the shop.
OMG - it's all three at once!
Happy woodcutting with the oil of your choice :-).
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
"Juergen Hannappel" <[email protected]>
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "dean" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > Because every professional user I have ever seen is
using 10W30 engine
> > oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I
was just
> > wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
>
> The oil on the chain will be distributed in you
environment it's
> totally unacceptable to use a non-biodegradable oil for
lubricating
> the saw. The pro's you have seen obviously don't care a
dam about the
> rest of the world and should be [insert punishment of
choice]...
what in the world makes you think oil is not biodegradable?
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 02:06:53 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:30:01 GMT, the opaque "George E. Cawthon"
>> <[email protected]> spake:
>>
>>
Haven't been following this too closely. I thought bar oil was what
you get on your elbows.
Joe
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 02:06:53 GMT, the opaque "George E. Cawthon"
<[email protected]> spake:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:30:01 GMT, the opaque "George E. Cawthon"
>> Um, if the water table is contaminated by the oil, I'd -much-
>> rather have soil compression and the resultant fewer trees, TYVM.
>
>Contrary to the idiocy often evidence by DEQ's, it
>takes quite a spill to contaminate groundwater.
>BTW, got to start using those terms correctly. You
>can't contaminate the water table. That's like
>"spilling coffee on the inches." Water table is
>just an elevation. What gets contaminated in
>ground water or "aquifer" if you prefer. There's
ACK.
OK, my water table is about 20' and my well is 26' deep.
How much oil it would take to contaminate the aquifer
containing my drinking water? Much less than one at
300' deep, I'm sure.
-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>....snip...
>
>Can't you see we're mostly simply pulling your "sky is falling"
>chain??? :)
I'm not sure what you think you read. I never said anything beyond stating
what is, or should be, self-evidently obvious: that new oil is a better
lubricant than used oil, and that oils specifically formulated for a
particular purpose are better suited to that purpose than oils which are not.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> writes:
[...]
> What gets contaminated in ground water or "aquifer" if you prefer.
> There's another common mistake "ground water aquifer" because ground
> water and aquifer mean the same thing. Oops, guess the old editor job
> just spilled out.
<mode="nitpick">
Isn't the aquifer rather the structure in the ground that contains the
ground water than the water itself? The word certainly means that (it
would be something like "water carrier").
</mode>
;-)
Juergen
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23
"dean" <[email protected]> writes:
> Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
The oil on the chain will be distributed in you environment it's
totally unacceptable to use a non-biodegradable oil for lubricating
the saw. The pro's you have seen obviously don't care a dam about the
rest of the world and should be [insert punishment of choice]...
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Juergen Hannappel wrote:
> > "dean" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> >
> >>Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
> >>oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
> >>wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?
> >
> >
> > The oil on the chain will be distributed in you environment it's
> > totally unacceptable to use a non-biodegradable oil for lubricating
> > the saw. The pro's you have seen obviously don't care a dam about the
> > rest of the world and should be [insert punishment of choice]...
> >
>
> Yep, the best is peanut oil, second best is cotton
> seed oil, last is corn oil. ;)
Yeah, producing all those crops is definately GOOD for the environment !!!
--
SVL
Jeff Wisnia wrote:
> Mark and Kim Smith wrote:
>
>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> The suspended solids in used engine oil are, for the most part, fine
>>> particles of metal. The junk that collects on the bar during use is
>>> wood dust. Surely you don't imagine that the two produce the same
>>> degree of wear on the chain and bar.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Hey Doug,
>>
>> Check this out as for the hardness of wood. Check out the third
>> picture down!! http://www.xmission.com/~tmathews/b29/e.html
>
>
> Interesting site too..
>
> Reminded me of the marvelous PBS Nova program about the attempt to
> recover the B-29 "Kee Bird" from Greenland.
>
> IIRC they did something creative with the wheels on that one too. Having
> no source of compressed air they filled the tires with propane they had
> on hand for cooking.
>
> If you never heard about this 1994-95 rescue attempt and its unhappy
> ending, here's a link:
>
> http://b-29s-over-korea.com/shortstories/b29-frozen.htm
>
> Jeff
>
What a bastard.
A great yarn.
John
Fly-by-Night CC wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>That's what the hospital supervisor said about
>>putting instruments in hydraulic fluid wasn't it?
>
>
> Now, now George. The elevator maintenance guys put the used hydraulic
> fluid in empty bottles that were thrown out after the docs, nurses,
> medical techs or whomever used the original fluid that was intended for
> instrument contact. First off, the repair crew erred in not relabeling
> the bottles as containing something other than what the labels said.
> Secondly, they left them in a location in which someone else would
> appropriately and reasonably assume the bottles contained what they said
> they did.
Ah, but after the discover of what happened, the
doctors said, "No problem, don't worry" to the
patients that received implants that were
"disinfected" with the hydraulic fluid. That was
my point.