Hello all,
My shop is a 20'X24' garage with two insulated walls, and no isulation
in the ceiling. I live in Western Wisconsin, so it gets colder than a
mother-*$&%#$ out here. I'd like to find a semi-portable method of
heating my shop so that I don't have to stop working all winter. The
building is a rental, so I'm hesitant to install a big heater that is
going to be too tough to take with when my wife and I buy a house
(probably next spring). The shop has a chimney (though I have no idea
why) so I may be able to use that for a vented heater.
I only need it to be heated to, say 50 degrees or so, just enough to
keep me from freezing solid, but I want the heat to be relatively
safe, and to try and keep my tools from rusting when I heat the
building up (It will only be heated whn I'm working). Electiric heat
is out, because the electrical service is not the best, and I don't
want to trip the breakers every time I use a tool, so I think I'm
going to need propane or a wood stove.
I've seen the tube-type "jet" heaters before, and they seem to work
pretty well, but is there another type that may be safer to use around
wood that would work? I can't say that money is not a limiting
factor, but I'm willing to invest in the right tool for the job at
hand. I'd love to insulate and sheetrock it, but the wife says no
way, since I don't own the building and we intend to move fairly soon.
Thanks for any advice!
<[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>5000 watts = 17,000 Btu. (it needs 21 amps at 230V) Not enough to keep
>>that size building warm in very cold weather.
>
> How warm is warm. It should maintain 50 during the day.
>
I have a similar situation with a 30,000 Btu heater. It will NOT maintain
50 during the day in CT. He is in Wisconsin with similar climate. I can get
a 20 to 25 degree temperature rise. When it is 5 degrees outside, it is not
going to be 50 inside. If you live in a mild climate, it will be plenty. WI
is not all that mild.
In addition, when you leave the space unheated for a long time, you lose the
latent heat. It takes a very long time to re-build than especially with the
mass of some of the heavy tools.
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:47:41 -0700, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> wrote:
>I use one too for the initial heating of the shop. And I'm in the
>Yukon. See the top of:
... snip
> ... No
>problem with condensation, but we have really dry air. If it's been
>going for a few hours, I will often open all doors to "blow out" the
>hot humid air when I leave the shop. You should see the fog it creates
>when it's 40 below zero outside!
Note to self: This is why I live in Arizona. [/begin sarcasm mode 40
BELOW zero? Like, doesn't air become liquid about there? /end sarcasm
mode]
>
>Luigi
>Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
>www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
>www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
On 3 Oct 2004 15:28:18 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>Edwin Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>...when you leave the space unheated for a long time, you lose the latent
>>heat.
>
>As in "water vapor"?
>
No, as in heat held in the thermal "mass" of whatever it is you have kept
warm. Objects with large mass tend to hold heat for a long while, thus the
reason one would use rocks or water to store heat from a solar collector.
Once lost, it takes a significant amount of time and energy to rebuild the
heat in that mass. Since woodshops contain some fairly large tools
containing a lot of thermal mass, once heated, they will stay warm for a
while, conversely, once they give up that heat, it takes a long time and a
lot of energy to warm them up again.
>>It takes a very long time to re-build than especially with the
>>mass of some of the heavy tools.
>
>That sounds like "sensible" vs "latent" heat.
>
Not exactly, it is often very inefficient to have to restore heat lost
from massive items.
>Nick
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:33:05 -0500, Prometheus <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:47:32 -0700, Mark & Juanita
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:47:41 -0700, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>I use one too for the initial heating of the shop. And I'm in the
>>>Yukon. See the top of:
>>
>>... snip
>>> ... No
>>>problem with condensation, but we have really dry air. If it's been
>>>going for a few hours, I will often open all doors to "blow out" the
>>>hot humid air when I leave the shop. You should see the fog it creates
>>>when it's 40 below zero outside!
>>
>> Note to self: This is why I live in Arizona. [/begin sarcasm mode 40
>>BELOW zero? Like, doesn't air become liquid about there? /end sarcasm
>>mode]
>
>Now that's a good idea, too... how is the job market in Arizona these
>days? :)
Depends upon what you do. Home building is booming around here.
>
>>>
>>>Luigi
>>>Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
>>>www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
>>>www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
:[email protected]...
> That sounds like "sensible" vs "latent" heat.
>
> Nick
>
Correct.
A tablesaw can absorb one heck of a lot of heat as it ices up on a really
cold day. Takes forever to get the room warm enough to work.
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:19:27 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:33:05 -0500, Prometheus <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:47:32 -0700, Mark & Juanita
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:47:41 -0700, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>I use one too for the initial heating of the shop. And I'm in the
>>>>Yukon. See the top of:
>>>
>>>... snip
>>>> ... No
>>>>problem with condensation, but we have really dry air. If it's been
>>>>going for a few hours, I will often open all doors to "blow out" the
>>>>hot humid air when I leave the shop. You should see the fog it creates
>>>>when it's 40 below zero outside!
>>>
>>> Note to self: This is why I live in Arizona. [/begin sarcasm mode 40
>>>BELOW zero? Like, doesn't air become liquid about there? /end sarcasm
>>>mode]
>>
>>Now that's a good idea, too... how is the job market in Arizona these
>>days? :)
>
> Depends upon what you do. Home building is booming around here.
I've got a few years in framing and drywall as a day job, and a couple
more putting up small structures on weekends. Might be an option, but
I don't know too much about AZ...
>>
>>>>
>>>>Luigi
>>>>Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
>>>>www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
>>>>www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:59:39 -0500, Prometheus
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Got ya. Thankfully, it's now a moot point! My wife and I just got
>our approval for a morgage, so I'm hoping to be in my new place before
Congrats Fire Man!
Congrats!
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:14:45 -0500, Prometheus
<[email protected]> wrote:
I've done 2 things so far and they made last winter more tolerable..
(if you can call what we have in Calif. winters)
I added 2 of those oil filled heaters at the 2 draftiest places in the
garage, set on about 3 (settings are 0 -10, I think) and on 24/7...
they don't really heat, as much as break the chill and circulate the
warmth..
I built a box for the end of the dryer hose, using a wood box and 2
furnace filters, so I could vent the dryer inside the garage without a
lot of lint and moisture in the air.. worked good last year and I
didn't notice any more rust than before... and my wife loves it, since
I tend to do the laundry in the winter.. lol
Something else you might try, (HF to the rescue!), is a radiant heater
that clamps onto a bbq-size (5 gal?) propane tank..
We use one on our enclosed patio and it makes a lot of difference...
we use it almost every night and use between 2 and 3 tanks a winter...
I don't think I'd use one in my garage, because I do a lot of painting
and finishing, but it would be safer than a wood stove, for sure..
>Hello all,
>
>My shop is a 20'X24' garage with two insulated walls, and no isulation
>in the ceiling. I live in Western Wisconsin, so it gets colder than a
>mother-*$&%#$ out here. I'd like to find a semi-portable method of
>heating my shop so that I don't have to stop working all winter. The
>building is a rental, so I'm hesitant to install a big heater that is
>going to be too tough to take with when my wife and I buy a house
>(probably next spring). The shop has a chimney (though I have no idea
>why) so I may be able to use that for a vented heater.
>
>I only need it to be heated to, say 50 degrees or so, just enough to
>keep me from freezing solid, but I want the heat to be relatively
>safe, and to try and keep my tools from rusting when I heat the
>building up (It will only be heated whn I'm working). Electiric heat
>is out, because the electrical service is not the best, and I don't
>want to trip the breakers every time I use a tool, so I think I'm
>going to need propane or a wood stove.
>
>I've seen the tube-type "jet" heaters before, and they seem to work
>pretty well, but is there another type that may be safer to use around
>wood that would work? I can't say that money is not a limiting
>factor, but I'm willing to invest in the right tool for the job at
>hand. I'd love to insulate and sheetrock it, but the wife says no
>way, since I don't own the building and we intend to move fairly soon.
>
>Thanks for any advice!
Mac
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:14:45 -0500, Prometheus
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>My shop is a 20'X24' garage with two insulated walls, and no isulation
>in the ceiling. I live in Western Wisconsin, so it gets colder than a
>mother-*$&%#$ out here. I'd like to find a semi-portable method of
>heating my shop so that I don't have to stop working all winter. The
>building is a rental, so I'm hesitant to install a big heater that is
>going to be too tough to take with when my wife and I buy a house
>(probably next spring). The shop has a chimney (though I have no idea
>why) so I may be able to use that for a vented heater.
[snip]
The propane jet type heaters are clean, warm up the shop in
quickly, and can be controlled by a thermostat. They are a bit
noisy though and eat 20lb tanks rather quickly. I used one in a
garage as you described, I think it was a 80k btu heater. It will take
a while to warm up the heavy cast iron where your hands won't freeze
to it in the really cold weather. A couple of years ago we moved and
I now a have a smaller but insulated shop with a "Modine Hot Dawg"
style heater and have so much more enjoyed doing shop time in the
winter. Something about being warm and watching the snow fly by the
shop window makes living here almost sane. A nice bonus is you don't
have to worry about glue and other stuff freezing.
--
John, in Minnesota
Don't know how it is with you cheeseheads, but it's 20F outside, and as I
dug the last of the potatoes yesterday, it was snowing lightly. Time to
sweep the chimney and get at heating.
My choice would be to heat the air in preference to the equipment - all that
cold-soaking talk. Insulate, or at the minimum, isolate from the big space
with visqueen or such, and get a high-efficiency wall-mount vented gas unit.
You have natural? If not, propane.
This should have a good fan on it, because you want to warm yourself first.
The moisture will go out the vent, not into rust on your cool tools, which
any other kind of poorly vented or unvented space heat save electricity
would do.
This will _not_ help the saltwater situation in the rest of the building if
you push too much heat over there.
"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:07:39 GMT, patrick conroy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:14:45 -0500, Prometheus
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Hello all,
> >>
> >>I live in Western Wisconsin
> >
> >Ah, so you're the *one*...
>
> ???
>
> >>I'd like to find a semi-portable method of
> >>heating my shop so that I don't have to stop working all winter.
> >
> >Waitadoggoneminnute -- ain't your name Prometheus?
>
> That's why I'm stealing all these ideas from you god-like folks. :)
>
> >I'm in a 3 car gar^H^H^Hshop - but only one is the shop. I have a
> >little 1 unit Infrared $39 heater that plops ontop of a 20gal propane
> >tank.
> >
> >I flip it on at 5am and by 5:30 or so, it's warm enough in my Denver
> >garage to get out there. Then I keep it on, and just aim it at my
> >backside. It does the trick for me, with a couple of caveats:
> >
> >- I've left Wisconsin for Denver, so it's a little warmer out here
> >- If it's biiterly cold, I don't have to work out there, this is a
> >hobby for me
> >- If I had to do it over again, I'd pop for a double or triple unit
> >- When I get 230V or a nat-gas-line run out there, I'll switch to
> >something like that
> >- Beware the CO
> >- Again, living in Denver means 0% humidity, so I don't worry about
> >rust
> >- My garage is *somewhat* insulated. Most of it is. The door is not
> >and about 1/4 of the walls are not.
>
Not to mention you can keep the beef warm on the serving table.
Fine for a neander at a bench, but unless you move the tools under the lamp
to use them - could get expensive with several.
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:38:03 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
> >My choice would be to heat the air in preference to the equipment -
>
> Even better is to heat the people, not the air. In a UK winter
> (barely below freezing at worst) then long-wavelength IR is the stuff
> to look at. White ceramic electric heater elements, not glowing red
> ones. It's very efficient and instant heat. I have 500W of it over my
> bench and that's plenty to keep me happy in a thick shirt and sweater.
> --
> Smert' spamionam
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:39:17 GMT, "Lawrence L'Hote" <[email protected]>
scribbled:
>I've used one of those propane powered radiant heaters the past two winters.
>The biggest problem I've learned to deal with is condensation. I discovered
>my precious pattern rasps had rusted while in a drawer as well as some of my
>metal cutting files. Also, some moisture will condense on the cold iron of
>my Unisaw so I have to watch that. I put a carbon monoxide detector next to
>where I work and it never has indicated any CO.
>Larry
I use one too for the initial heating of the shop. And I'm in the
Yukon. See the top of:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/gateway/portable-heaters.htm
for what I mean. I use the 17,00 BTU unit in my 14'X28' shop.
Once the temperature is up, I use small ceramic electric heaters
(which you might not want to do given your 'lectric problems). No
problem with condensation, but we have really dry air. If it's been
going for a few hours, I will often open all doors to "blow out" the
hot humid air when I leave the shop. You should see the fog it creates
when it's 40 below zero outside!
Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:46:45 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>Fine for a neander at a bench, but unless you move the tools under the lamp
>to use them - could get expensive with several.
Let the tools get cold - they don't complain.
I do store my handtools in a heated cupboard though, as an
anti-condensation measure.
--
Smert' spamionam
On 3 Oct 2004 15:28:18 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>Edwin Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>...when you leave the space unheated for a long time, you lose the latent
>>heat.
>
>As in "water vapor"?
>
>>It takes a very long time to re-build than especially with the
>>mass of some of the heavy tools.
>
>That sounds like "sensible" vs "latent" heat.
>
>Nick
so, do you have to worry about the latent heat coming out of the
closet??
Mac
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:17:26 -0500, Prometheus
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Visqueen?
What we called Plastic Sheeting in the old days. Today you'd look for
something like Tyvek(TM) House Wrap.
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:06:29 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:13:16 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>5000 watts = 17,000 Btu. (it needs 21 amps at 230V) Not enough to keep
>>>>that size building warm in very cold weather.
>>>
>>> How warm is warm. It should maintain 50 during the day.
>>>
>>
>>I have a similar situation with a 30,000 Btu heater. It will NOT maintain
>>50 during the day in CT. He is in Wisconsin with similar climate. I can get
>>a 20 to 25 degree temperature rise. When it is 5 degrees outside, it is not
>>going to be 50 inside. If you live in a mild climate, it will be plenty. WI
>>is not all that mild.
>>
>>In addition, when you leave the space unheated for a long time, you lose the
>>latent heat. It takes a very long time to re-build than especially with the
>>mass of some of the heavy tools.
>>
>He said the ceiling was uninsulated.
>I would bite the bullet and stick some 6" batts in the ceiling. You can always
>take them with you when you leave.<g>
No, if I do that, they stay there! Hauling fiberglass above your head
once is plenty! :)
>Get 5 4x8 sheets of the rigid insulation they put on flat roofs under T&G.
>Stand this up across the uninsulated front side of the garage.
>For under $300 you have an insulated room.
>You could even do the ceiling with this rigid stuff.
>It's actually pretty cheap for about R18.
>About a third of the price of the pink or blue stuff at the Borg.
True, but for under $120 I could sheetrock the whole deal and call it
good as well- the problem is convincing the wife of that!
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:14:45 -0500, Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>My shop is a 20'X24' garage with two insulated walls, and no isulation
>in the ceiling. I live in Western Wisconsin, so it gets colder than a
>mother-*$&%#$ out here. I'd like to find a semi-portable method of
>heating my shop so that I don't have to stop working all winter. The
>building is a rental, so I'm hesitant to install a big heater that is
>going to be too tough to take with when my wife and I buy a house
>(probably next spring). The shop has a chimney (though I have no idea
>why) so I may be able to use that for a vented heater.
>
>I only need it to be heated to, say 50 degrees or so, just enough to
>keep me from freezing solid, but I want the heat to be relatively
>safe, and to try and keep my tools from rusting when I heat the
>building up (It will only be heated whn I'm working). Electiric heat
>is out, because the electrical service is not the best, and I don't
>want to trip the breakers every time I use a tool, so I think I'm
>going to need propane or a wood stove.
>
>I've seen the tube-type "jet" heaters before, and they seem to work
>pretty well, but is there another type that may be safer to use around
>wood that would work? I can't say that money is not a limiting
>factor, but I'm willing to invest in the right tool for the job at
>hand. I'd love to insulate and sheetrock it, but the wife says no
>way, since I don't own the building and we intend to move fairly soon.
>
>Thanks for any advice!
5000 watt shop heaters are less than $50 and tiny (a foot square) and simply
require a 220 30 amp circuit.
It's pretty easy to run a cord to power the thing. Might not be legal but
contractors do it.
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:20:58 -0500, Prometheus
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>I've done 2 things so far and they made last winter more tolerable..
>>(if you can call what we have in Calif. winters)
>
>Not compared to Wisconsin! We actually have -80F wind-chill days
>here...
nah... winter here means that you put on a long sleeve shirt to pick
oranges in the yard.. *g*
(a "cold" morning is in the low 30's)
>
>>I added 2 of those oil filled heaters at the 2 draftiest places in the
>>garage, set on about 3 (settings are 0 -10, I think) and on 24/7...
>>they don't really heat, as much as break the chill and circulate the
>>warmth..
>
>Kerosine?
sorry, should have caught that.. it plugs into a 110 outlet.. takes
forever to start putting out heat but works well if left on 24/7 at
lower setting..
>>I built a box for the end of the dryer hose, using a wood box and 2
>>furnace filters, so I could vent the dryer inside the garage without a
>>lot of lint and moisture in the air.. worked good last year and I
>>didn't notice any more rust than before... and my wife loves it, since
>>I tend to do the laundry in the winter.. lol
>>
>>Something else you might try, (HF to the rescue!), is a radiant heater
>>that clamps onto a bbq-size (5 gal?) propane tank..
>
>I thought of that- the ol' "mr. heater" but I had a friend who used
>that in his garage for smokers, and it did very little good.
>
the Mr. Heater and heater buddy are more for camping.. this is a big
ugly thing that clamps on to the handle/ring of a propane tank and is
directional..
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90017
we got this one, the model without the sensor is $20 less...
a few of my neighbors got those $100 ones that look like a mushroom or
something and have to huddle around it.. ours throws heat in one
direction, but for at least 5 or 6 feet..
Mac
Prometheus wrote:
> My shop is a 20'X24' garage with two insulated walls, and no
> isulation in the ceiling. I live in Western Wisconsin, so it
> gets colder than a mother-*$&%#$ out here.
> I only need it to be heated to, say 50 degrees or so, just
> enough to keep me from freezing solid, but I want the heat to
> be relatively safe, and to try and keep my tools from rusting
> when I heat the building up (It will only be heated whn I'm
> working).
I still like the solar heating option. It worked for my shop in
SE Minnesota and works for my shop here in (tropical) central
Iowa. Over the last year I've posted enough photos and drawings
to ABPW to make design a non-problem - check the archive.
Depending on how much time you plan to spend in the shop over the
winter, it may be worth looking for a good deal on insulation for
the ceiling and on weatherstripping for doors and windows.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
-----clip------
> I only need it to be heated to, say 50 degrees or so, just enough to
> keep me from freezing solid, but I want the heat to be relatively
--------clip------
> want to trip the breakers every time I use a tool, so I think I'm
> going to need propane or a wood stove.
>
> I've seen the tube-type "jet" heaters before, and they seem to work
> pretty well, but is there another type that may be safer to use around
----clip-------
I've used one of those propane powered radiant heaters the past two winters.
The biggest problem I've learned to deal with is condensation. I discovered
my precious pattern rasps had rusted while in a drawer as well as some of my
metal cutting files. Also, some moisture will condense on the cold iron of
my Unisaw so I have to watch that. I put a carbon monoxide detector next to
where I work and it never has indicated any CO.
Larry
--
Lawrence L'Hote
Columbia, MO
http://home.mchsi.com/~larrylhote
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:20:58 -0500, Prometheus
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >>I've done 2 things so far and they made last winter more tolerable..
> >>(if you can call what we have in Calif. winters)
> >
> >Not compared to Wisconsin! We actually have -80F wind-chill days
> >here...
>
> nah... winter here means that you put on a long sleeve shirt to pick
> oranges in the yard.. *g*
> (a "cold" morning is in the low 30's)
> >
Around here winter is cold enough. Around mid-January when we get a brief
few day long break from the sub-zeroes we feel like shirt sleeve weather at
single digits. But then again, we define summer as six weeks of terrible
snowmobiling.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Our garage isn't insulated at all, so when it's -15 here in central
Minnesota I just don't go out there. But when I do need to do some
work in the winter, I dress warmly and heat the place with a kerosene
heater like this: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?
product_id=2349688&cat=4863&type=1&dept=5428&path=0%3A5428%3A92523%
3A4863 It does 20,000+ BTUs cheaply (runs many hours on a gallon of
fuel), which is enough to make it possible to work with a sweater
on...say +45 indoors on a cold day. It's not enough to warm more than
the air though, so any metal tools with much mass at all (i.e. table
saw) never do warm up enough to touch. Still, it's cheap, seems safe,
and it pretty nice to slide over next to my stool if I'm working at
the bench for an hour or so on a day I'd rather not be outside at all.
-Derek
Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> writes:
>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:47:32 -0700, Mark & Juanita
>> Note to self: This is why I live in Arizona. [/begin sarcasm mode 40
>>BELOW zero? Like, doesn't air become liquid about there? /end sarcasm
>>mode]
>
>Fine, you can keep the scorpions and rattlers in your back yard. And
>the monotonous weather. When you're outside, it's a lot easier to get
>warm at -40C than to cool off at +40C. Fire, you know. Oops, I forgot.
>You can't make fires. No trees where you are. (OBWW) No thanks. ;-)
>
Actually there are trees in arizona. Take a drive in the snow up
towards Flagstaff and drive through the piney woods.
scott
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:53:39 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:02:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>>
>>>> Electiric heat
>>>>is out, because the electrical service is not the best, and I don't
>>>>want to trip the breakers every time I use a tool, so I think I'm
>>>>going to need propane or a wood stove.
>>
>>
>>> 5000 watt shop heaters are less than $50 and tiny (a foot square) and
>>> simply
>>> require a 220 30 amp circuit.
>>> It's pretty easy to run a cord to power the thing. Might not be legal but
>>> contractors do it.
>>
>>But he said the electric supply is questionable.
>>
>I think he was referring to his 110 not 220. If he has an electric clothes dryer
>he has the juice
I have one 220 outlet, but is it upstairs in the house. I might be
able to run a cable, but it would be hanging loose in the air, and I'm
not sure that's a real good idea.
>>5000 watts = 17,000 Btu. (it needs 21 amps at 230V) Not enough to keep
>>that size building warm in very cold weather.
>
>How warm is warm. It should maintain 50 during the day.
>
>>I have a slightly smaller,
>>partially insulated garage. When the temperature is in the teens, the 30,000
>>Btu propane heater is not enough. You can get larger units for not a lot
>>more money. That would be my choice today, probably the 80,000.
>>
>>Other option is a wood burner.
>
>Can void insurance, messy and in many places illegal.
Legal here, but I'm not sure I want the hassle. It is a messy option,
for sure.
>> That assumes the chimney is in good shape
>>and you have a decent supply of wood to feed it. The heat is not as instant
>>as propane as you have to get the fire going and get that hunk of metal up
>>to temperature. There could be a 30 to 60 minute lag to reasonable comfort.
>>Long wait if you just want to putter in the shop for an hour after dinner.
>>Even with my propane heater, at times I have to wait 15 to 30 minutes until
>>it is bearable out there.
>>
Edwin Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>...when you leave the space unheated for a long time, you lose the latent
>heat.
As in "water vapor"?
>It takes a very long time to re-build than especially with the
>mass of some of the heavy tools.
That sounds like "sensible" vs "latent" heat.
Nick
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:17:26 -0500, Prometheus
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
>
>Visqueen? No natural gas, but propane is easily availible.
(plastic sheeting)
>>This should have a good fan on it, because you want to warm yourself first.
>>The moisture will go out the vent, not into rust on your cool tools, which
>>any other kind of poorly vented or unvented space heat save electricity
>>would do.
>>
>>This will _not_ help the saltwater situation in the rest of the building if
>>you push too much heat over there.
>>
>>"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:07:39 GMT, patrick conroy
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:14:45 -0500, Prometheus
>>> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>Hello all,
>>> >>
>>> >>I live in Western Wisconsin
>>> >
>>> >Ah, so you're the *one*...
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> >>I'd like to find a semi-portable method of
>>> >>heating my shop so that I don't have to stop working all winter.
>>> >
>>> >Waitadoggoneminnute -- ain't your name Prometheus?
>>>
>>> That's why I'm stealing all these ideas from you god-like folks. :)
>>>
>>> >I'm in a 3 car gar^H^H^Hshop - but only one is the shop. I have a
>>> >little 1 unit Infrared $39 heater that plops ontop of a 20gal propane
>>> >tank.
>>> >
>>> >I flip it on at 5am and by 5:30 or so, it's warm enough in my Denver
>>> >garage to get out there. Then I keep it on, and just aim it at my
>>> >backside. It does the trick for me, with a couple of caveats:
>>> >
>>> >- I've left Wisconsin for Denver, so it's a little warmer out here
>>> >- If it's biiterly cold, I don't have to work out there, this is a
>>> >hobby for me
>>> >- If I had to do it over again, I'd pop for a double or triple unit
>>> >- When I get 230V or a nat-gas-line run out there, I'll switch to
>>> >something like that
>>> >- Beware the CO
>>> >- Again, living in Denver means 0% humidity, so I don't worry about
>>> >rust
>>> >- My garage is *somewhat* insulated. Most of it is. The door is not
>>> >and about 1/4 of the walls are not.
>>>
>>
Mac
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:38:03 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
>
>Don't know how it is with you cheeseheads, but it's 20F outside, and as I
Oh that is sooooo passe'!
It's Cheese Bras now, dontchaknow...
>dug the last of the potatoes yesterday, it was snowing lightly. Time to
>sweep the chimney and get at heating.
>
Only snow here is above 10,000 feet.
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:27:54 GMT, mac davis <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:14:45 -0500, Prometheus
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I've done 2 things so far and they made last winter more tolerable..
>(if you can call what we have in Calif. winters)
Not compared to Wisconsin! We actually have -80F wind-chill days
here...
>I added 2 of those oil filled heaters at the 2 draftiest places in the
>garage, set on about 3 (settings are 0 -10, I think) and on 24/7...
>they don't really heat, as much as break the chill and circulate the
>warmth..
Kerosine?
>I built a box for the end of the dryer hose, using a wood box and 2
>furnace filters, so I could vent the dryer inside the garage without a
>lot of lint and moisture in the air.. worked good last year and I
>didn't notice any more rust than before... and my wife loves it, since
>I tend to do the laundry in the winter.. lol
>
>Something else you might try, (HF to the rescue!), is a radiant heater
>that clamps onto a bbq-size (5 gal?) propane tank..
I thought of that- the ol' "mr. heater" but I had a friend who used
that in his garage for smokers, and it did very little good.
>We use one on our enclosed patio and it makes a lot of difference...
>we use it almost every night and use between 2 and 3 tanks a winter...
>I don't think I'd use one in my garage, because I do a lot of painting
>and finishing, but it would be safer than a wood stove, for sure..
I don't know about that- wood stoves are pretty safe, they're just a
lot of work to keep filled all the time.
>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>My shop is a 20'X24' garage with two insulated walls, and no isulation
>>in the ceiling. I live in Western Wisconsin, so it gets colder than a
>>mother-*$&%#$ out here. I'd like to find a semi-portable method of
>>heating my shop so that I don't have to stop working all winter. The
>>building is a rental, so I'm hesitant to install a big heater that is
>>going to be too tough to take with when my wife and I buy a house
>>(probably next spring). The shop has a chimney (though I have no idea
>>why) so I may be able to use that for a vented heater.
>>
>>I only need it to be heated to, say 50 degrees or so, just enough to
>>keep me from freezing solid, but I want the heat to be relatively
>>safe, and to try and keep my tools from rusting when I heat the
>>building up (It will only be heated whn I'm working). Electiric heat
>>is out, because the electrical service is not the best, and I don't
>>want to trip the breakers every time I use a tool, so I think I'm
>>going to need propane or a wood stove.
>>
>>I've seen the tube-type "jet" heaters before, and they seem to work
>>pretty well, but is there another type that may be safer to use around
>>wood that would work? I can't say that money is not a limiting
>>factor, but I'm willing to invest in the right tool for the job at
>>hand. I'd love to insulate and sheetrock it, but the wife says no
>>way, since I don't own the building and we intend to move fairly soon.
>>
>>Thanks for any advice!
>
>
>
>Mac
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:29:53 GMT, mac davis <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:20:58 -0500, Prometheus
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>>I've done 2 things so far and they made last winter more tolerable..
>>>(if you can call what we have in Calif. winters)
>>
>>Not compared to Wisconsin! We actually have -80F wind-chill days
>>here...
>
>nah... winter here means that you put on a long sleeve shirt to pick
>oranges in the yard.. *g*
>(a "cold" morning is in the low 30's)
>>
>>>I added 2 of those oil filled heaters at the 2 draftiest places in the
>>>garage, set on about 3 (settings are 0 -10, I think) and on 24/7...
>>>they don't really heat, as much as break the chill and circulate the
>>>warmth..
>>
>>Kerosine?
>
>sorry, should have caught that.. it plugs into a 110 outlet.. takes
>forever to start putting out heat but works well if left on 24/7 at
>lower setting..
Ah, yes- one of those things that look like a hot-water register. I
had one of those, but they just don't do the trick in this
application. Too bad, because it seemed to be great on electricity.
>>>I built a box for the end of the dryer hose, using a wood box and 2
>>>furnace filters, so I could vent the dryer inside the garage without a
>>>lot of lint and moisture in the air.. worked good last year and I
>>>didn't notice any more rust than before... and my wife loves it, since
>>>I tend to do the laundry in the winter.. lol
>>>
>>>Something else you might try, (HF to the rescue!), is a radiant heater
>>>that clamps onto a bbq-size (5 gal?) propane tank..
>>
>>I thought of that- the ol' "mr. heater" but I had a friend who used
>>that in his garage for smokers, and it did very little good.
>>
>the Mr. Heater and heater buddy are more for camping.. this is a big
>ugly thing that clamps on to the handle/ring of a propane tank and is
>directional..
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90017
>
>we got this one, the model without the sensor is $20 less...
>
>a few of my neighbors got those $100 ones that look like a mushroom or
>something and have to huddle around it.. ours throws heat in one
>direction, but for at least 5 or 6 feet..
>
>
>Mac
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:06:44 GMT, patrick conroy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:17:26 -0500, Prometheus
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>Visqueen?
>
>What we called Plastic Sheeting in the old days. Today you'd look for
>something like Tyvek(TM) House Wrap.
Got ya. Thankfully, it's now a moot point! My wife and I just got
our approval for a morgage, so I'm hoping to be in my new place before
the deep freeze sets in, and then I can insulate the snot out of the
shop and put a real heater in there. :)
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:14:45 -0500, Prometheus
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>Hello all,
>
>I live in Western Wisconsin
Ah, so you're the *one*...
>I'd like to find a semi-portable method of
>heating my shop so that I don't have to stop working all winter.
Waitadoggoneminnute -- ain't your name Prometheus?
I'm in a 3 car gar^H^H^Hshop - but only one is the shop. I have a
little 1 unit Infrared $39 heater that plops ontop of a 20gal propane
tank.
I flip it on at 5am and by 5:30 or so, it's warm enough in my Denver
garage to get out there. Then I keep it on, and just aim it at my
backside. It does the trick for me, with a couple of caveats:
- I've left Wisconsin for Denver, so it's a little warmer out here
- If it's biiterly cold, I don't have to work out there, this is a
hobby for me
- If I had to do it over again, I'd pop for a double or triple unit
- When I get 230V or a nat-gas-line run out there, I'll switch to
something like that
- Beware the CO
- Again, living in Denver means 0% humidity, so I don't worry about
rust
- My garage is *somewhat* insulated. Most of it is. The door is not
and about 1/4 of the walls are not.
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:02:14 -0500, "John, in MN"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:14:45 -0500, Prometheus
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>My shop is a 20'X24' garage with two insulated walls, and no isulation
>>in the ceiling. I live in Western Wisconsin, so it gets colder than a
>>mother-*$&%#$ out here. I'd like to find a semi-portable method of
>>heating my shop so that I don't have to stop working all winter. The
>>building is a rental, so I'm hesitant to install a big heater that is
>>going to be too tough to take with when my wife and I buy a house
>>(probably next spring). The shop has a chimney (though I have no idea
>>why) so I may be able to use that for a vented heater.
>[snip]
>The propane jet type heaters are clean, warm up the shop in
>quickly, and can be controlled by a thermostat. They are a bit
>noisy though and eat 20lb tanks rather quickly. I used one in a
>garage as you described, I think it was a 80k btu heater. It will take
>a while to warm up the heavy cast iron where your hands won't freeze
>to it in the really cold weather.
I think I'll use a 100lb tank anyhow, it's only a $40 deposit here. I
suppose the heavy iron problem is one minor advantage to having a lot
of starter "benchtop"-type tools.
> A couple of years ago we moved and
>I now a have a smaller but insulated shop with a "Modine Hot Dawg"
>style heater and have so much more enjoyed doing shop time in the
>winter. Something about being warm and watching the snow fly by the
>shop window makes living here almost sane. A nice bonus is you don't
>have to worry about glue and other stuff freezing.
Luckily, I have a small utility room inside for glue and finishes- I
plan on using that for all my finishing work.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Electiric heat
>>is out, because the electrical service is not the best, and I don't
>>want to trip the breakers every time I use a tool, so I think I'm
>>going to need propane or a wood stove.
> 5000 watt shop heaters are less than $50 and tiny (a foot square) and
> simply
> require a 220 30 amp circuit.
> It's pretty easy to run a cord to power the thing. Might not be legal but
> contractors do it.
But he said the electric supply is questionable.
5000 watts = 17,000 Btu. (it needs 21 amps at 230V) Not enough to keep
that size building warm in very cold weather. I have a slightly smaller,
partially insulated garage. When the temperature is in the teens, the 30,000
Btu propane heater is not enough. You can get larger units for not a lot
more money. That would be my choice today, probably the 80,000.
Other option is a wood burner. That assumes the chimney is in good shape
and you have a decent supply of wood to feed it. The heat is not as instant
as propane as you have to get the fire going and get that hunk of metal up
to temperature. There could be a 30 to 60 minute lag to reasonable comfort.
Long wait if you just want to putter in the shop for an hour after dinner.
Even with my propane heater, at times I have to wait 15 to 30 minutes until
it is bearable out there.
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:07:39 GMT, patrick conroy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:14:45 -0500, Prometheus
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I live in Western Wisconsin
>
>Ah, so you're the *one*...
???
>>I'd like to find a semi-portable method of
>>heating my shop so that I don't have to stop working all winter.
>
>Waitadoggoneminnute -- ain't your name Prometheus?
That's why I'm stealing all these ideas from you god-like folks. :)
>I'm in a 3 car gar^H^H^Hshop - but only one is the shop. I have a
>little 1 unit Infrared $39 heater that plops ontop of a 20gal propane
>tank.
>
>I flip it on at 5am and by 5:30 or so, it's warm enough in my Denver
>garage to get out there. Then I keep it on, and just aim it at my
>backside. It does the trick for me, with a couple of caveats:
>
>- I've left Wisconsin for Denver, so it's a little warmer out here
>- If it's biiterly cold, I don't have to work out there, this is a
>hobby for me
>- If I had to do it over again, I'd pop for a double or triple unit
>- When I get 230V or a nat-gas-line run out there, I'll switch to
>something like that
>- Beware the CO
>- Again, living in Denver means 0% humidity, so I don't worry about
>rust
>- My garage is *somewhat* insulated. Most of it is. The door is not
>and about 1/4 of the walls are not.
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:02:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>> Electiric heat
>>>is out, because the electrical service is not the best, and I don't
>>>want to trip the breakers every time I use a tool, so I think I'm
>>>going to need propane or a wood stove.
>
>
>> 5000 watt shop heaters are less than $50 and tiny (a foot square) and
>> simply
>> require a 220 30 amp circuit.
>> It's pretty easy to run a cord to power the thing. Might not be legal but
>> contractors do it.
>
>But he said the electric supply is questionable.
>
I think he was referring to his 110 not 220. If he has an electric clothes dryer
he has the juice
>5000 watts = 17,000 Btu. (it needs 21 amps at 230V) Not enough to keep
>that size building warm in very cold weather.
How warm is warm. It should maintain 50 during the day.
>I have a slightly smaller,
>partially insulated garage. When the temperature is in the teens, the 30,000
>Btu propane heater is not enough. You can get larger units for not a lot
>more money. That would be my choice today, probably the 80,000.
>
>Other option is a wood burner.
Can void insurance, messy and in many places illegal.
> That assumes the chimney is in good shape
>and you have a decent supply of wood to feed it. The heat is not as instant
>as propane as you have to get the fire going and get that hunk of metal up
>to temperature. There could be a 30 to 60 minute lag to reasonable comfort.
>Long wait if you just want to putter in the shop for an hour after dinner.
>Even with my propane heater, at times I have to wait 15 to 30 minutes until
>it is bearable out there.
>
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:00:22 -0500, Morris Dovey <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Prometheus wrote:
>
>> My shop is a 20'X24' garage with two insulated walls, and no
>> isulation in the ceiling. I live in Western Wisconsin, so it
>> gets colder than a mother-*$&%#$ out here.
>
>> I only need it to be heated to, say 50 degrees or so, just
>> enough to keep me from freezing solid, but I want the heat to
>> be relatively safe, and to try and keep my tools from rusting
>> when I heat the building up (It will only be heated whn I'm
>> working).
>
>I still like the solar heating option. It worked for my shop in
>SE Minnesota and works for my shop here in (tropical) central
>Iowa. Over the last year I've posted enough photos and drawings
>to ABPW to make design a non-problem - check the archive.
I do too... I may check that out as an option in addition to a propane
heater.
>Depending on how much time you plan to spend in the shop over the
>winter, it may be worth looking for a good deal on insulation for
>the ceiling and on weatherstripping for doors and windows.
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:47:32 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> scribbled:
>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:47:41 -0700, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> wrote:
>... snip
>> ... No
>>problem with condensation, but we have really dry air. If it's been
>>going for a few hours, I will often open all doors to "blow out" the
>>hot humid air when I leave the shop. You should see the fog it creates
>>when it's 40 below zero outside!
>
> Note to self: This is why I live in Arizona. [/begin sarcasm mode 40
>BELOW zero? Like, doesn't air become liquid about there? /end sarcasm
>mode]
Fine, you can keep the scorpions and rattlers in your back yard. And
the monotonous weather. When you're outside, it's a lot easier to get
warm at -40C than to cool off at +40C. Fire, you know. Oops, I forgot.
You can't make fires. No trees where you are. (OBWW) No thanks. ;-)
Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:38:03 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>Don't know how it is with you cheeseheads, but it's 20F outside, and as I
>dug the last of the potatoes yesterday, it was snowing lightly. Time to
>sweep the chimney and get at heating.
Similar to here, but I'm hoping for another warm snap or two.
>My choice would be to heat the air in preference to the equipment - all that
>cold-soaking talk. Insulate, or at the minimum, isolate from the big space
>with visqueen or such, and get a high-efficiency wall-mount vented gas unit.
>You have natural? If not, propane.
Visqueen? No natural gas, but propane is easily availible.
>This should have a good fan on it, because you want to warm yourself first.
>The moisture will go out the vent, not into rust on your cool tools, which
>any other kind of poorly vented or unvented space heat save electricity
>would do.
>
>This will _not_ help the saltwater situation in the rest of the building if
>you push too much heat over there.
>
>"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:07:39 GMT, patrick conroy
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:14:45 -0500, Prometheus
>> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Hello all,
>> >>
>> >>I live in Western Wisconsin
>> >
>> >Ah, so you're the *one*...
>>
>> ???
>>
>> >>I'd like to find a semi-portable method of
>> >>heating my shop so that I don't have to stop working all winter.
>> >
>> >Waitadoggoneminnute -- ain't your name Prometheus?
>>
>> That's why I'm stealing all these ideas from you god-like folks. :)
>>
>> >I'm in a 3 car gar^H^H^Hshop - but only one is the shop. I have a
>> >little 1 unit Infrared $39 heater that plops ontop of a 20gal propane
>> >tank.
>> >
>> >I flip it on at 5am and by 5:30 or so, it's warm enough in my Denver
>> >garage to get out there. Then I keep it on, and just aim it at my
>> >backside. It does the trick for me, with a couple of caveats:
>> >
>> >- I've left Wisconsin for Denver, so it's a little warmer out here
>> >- If it's biiterly cold, I don't have to work out there, this is a
>> >hobby for me
>> >- If I had to do it over again, I'd pop for a double or triple unit
>> >- When I get 230V or a nat-gas-line run out there, I'll switch to
>> >something like that
>> >- Beware the CO
>> >- Again, living in Denver means 0% humidity, so I don't worry about
>> >rust
>> >- My garage is *somewhat* insulated. Most of it is. The door is not
>> >and about 1/4 of the walls are not.
>>
>
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:13:16 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>>5000 watts = 17,000 Btu. (it needs 21 amps at 230V) Not enough to keep
>>>that size building warm in very cold weather.
>>
>> How warm is warm. It should maintain 50 during the day.
>>
>
>I have a similar situation with a 30,000 Btu heater. It will NOT maintain
>50 during the day in CT. He is in Wisconsin with similar climate. I can get
>a 20 to 25 degree temperature rise. When it is 5 degrees outside, it is not
>going to be 50 inside. If you live in a mild climate, it will be plenty. WI
>is not all that mild.
>
>In addition, when you leave the space unheated for a long time, you lose the
>latent heat. It takes a very long time to re-build than especially with the
>mass of some of the heavy tools.
>
He said the ceiling was uninsulated.
I would bite the bullet and stick some 6" batts in the ceiling. You can always
take them with you when you leave.<g>
Get 5 4x8 sheets of the rigid insulation they put on flat roofs under T&G.
Stand this up across the uninsulated front side of the garage.
For under $300 you have an insulated room.
You could even do the ceiling with this rigid stuff.
It's actually pretty cheap for about R18.
About a third of the price of the pink or blue stuff at the Borg.
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:59:39 -0500, Prometheus
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:06:44 GMT, patrick conroy
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:17:26 -0500, Prometheus
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Visqueen?
>>
>>What we called Plastic Sheeting in the old days. Today you'd look for
>>something like Tyvek(TM) House Wrap.
>
>Got ya. Thankfully, it's now a moot point! My wife and I just got
>our approval for a morgage, so I'm hoping to be in my new place before
>the deep freeze sets in, and then I can insulate the snot out of the
>shop and put a real heater in there. :)
Congratulations!
Welcome to the world of fixing things around the house at you own
expense, instead of the land lords.. lol
Mac
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:47:32 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:47:41 -0700, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> wrote:
>>I use one too for the initial heating of the shop. And I'm in the
>>Yukon. See the top of:
>
>... snip
>> ... No
>>problem with condensation, but we have really dry air. If it's been
>>going for a few hours, I will often open all doors to "blow out" the
>>hot humid air when I leave the shop. You should see the fog it creates
>>when it's 40 below zero outside!
>
> Note to self: This is why I live in Arizona. [/begin sarcasm mode 40
>BELOW zero? Like, doesn't air become liquid about there? /end sarcasm
>mode]
Now that's a good idea, too... how is the job market in Arizona these
days? :)
>>
>>Luigi
>>Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
>>www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
>>www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:38:03 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>My choice would be to heat the air in preference to the equipment -
Even better is to heat the people, not the air. In a UK winter
(barely below freezing at worst) then long-wavelength IR is the stuff
to look at. White ceramic electric heater elements, not glowing red
ones. It's very efficient and instant heat. I have 500W of it over my
bench and that's plenty to keep me happy in a thick shirt and sweater.
--
Smert' spamionam
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1096946322.B1UVGqGqFxpSyBieiGTUaQ@teranews...
> >>
> >> Note to self:
Why does everybody keep writing all of these notes to Charlie? Can't he
figure anything out on his own? Seems like a reasonably sharp fellow to me,
but everyone keeps sending him all these notes...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Try again.
Latent heat is the heat associated with a change of phase.
Sensible heat is the the heat associated with a change in temperature.
It takes 10,000 Btus to evaporate a pound of water.
It takes 10 btus to raise the temperature of a pound of water 10 degrees F.
Jay
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1096867933.mqXuI3KmfnVk9khlgTuwSg@teranews...
> On 3 Oct 2004 15:28:18 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>Edwin Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>...when you leave the space unheated for a long time, you lose the latent
>>>heat.
>>
>>As in "water vapor"?
>>
>
> No, as in heat held in the thermal "mass" of whatever it is you have kept
> warm. Objects with large mass tend to hold heat for a long while, thus
> the
> reason one would use rocks or water to store heat from a solar collector.
> Once lost, it takes a significant amount of time and energy to rebuild the
> heat in that mass. Since woodshops contain some fairly large tools
> containing a lot of thermal mass, once heated, they will stay warm for a
> while, conversely, once they give up that heat, it takes a long time and a
> lot of energy to warm them up again.
>
>>>It takes a very long time to re-build than especially with the
>>>mass of some of the heavy tools.
>>
>>That sounds like "sensible" vs "latent" heat.
>>
>
> Not exactly, it is often very inefficient to have to restore heat lost
> from massive items.
>
>>Nick
>