SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I want
it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
FIRST ATTEMPT: ROUTER TABLE - DOVETAILS
First I tried my router table to make dovetails. I cut the ends at 12
degrees first and cut the tails. So far so good. The I cut the pins but
they were cut at the wrong angle. So I recut them but the DT don't fit
together, even if I pare the triangles as indicated in the Incra through
dovetail instructions.
SECOND ATTEMPT: BAND SAW BOX JOINTS
So I tried box joints on the band saw by tilting the table to 12
degrees. To make a long story short, I didn't appreciate the results...
THIRD ATTEMPT: MITERS
By trial and error I came "close" to a workable miter joint but I don't
like the look of miter joints and cringe at the thought of securing it
correctly during glue up, as the joint is sloped 12 degrees. I tried a
number zero biscuit which holds the corner in alignment but how do I put
pressure on the joint?
Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with a
joint other than a miter?
(Maybe I'm not really cut out for woodworking...)
oh, and please don't suggest a multi router. :)
bummed, dave
Tom,
we ALWAYS have an earthquake coming... <g> beats driving in the snow
during the winter months, I'll tell you (or minus 15 degrees). (Of
course some parts of CA get snow, but not where I live or visit).
Wonder if angled dovetails are just beyond at this point?
dave
Tom wrote:
> BAD wrote:>SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I
> want
>
>>it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
>>
>>
>>FIRST ATTEMPT: ROUTER TABLE - DOVETAILS
>>First I tried my router table to make dovetails. I cut the ends at 12
>>degrees first and cut the tails. So far so good. The I cut the pins but
>>they were cut at the wrong angle. So I recut them but the DT don't fit
>>together, even if I pare the triangles as indicated in the Incra through
>>dovetail instructions.
>>
>>SECOND ATTEMPT: BAND SAW BOX JOINTS
>>So I tried box joints on the band saw by tilting the table to 12
>>degrees. To make a long story short, I didn't appreciate the results...
>>
>>THIRD ATTEMPT: MITERS
>>By trial and error I came "close" to a workable miter joint but I don't
>>like the look of miter joints and cringe at the thought of securing it
>>correctly during glue up, as the joint is sloped 12 degrees. I tried a
>>number zero biscuit which holds the corner in alignment but how do I put
>>pressure on the joint?
>>
>>Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
>>describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with a
>>joint other than a miter?
>>
>>(Maybe I'm not really cut out for woodworking...)
>>
>>oh, and please don't suggest a multi router. :)
>>
>>bummed, dave
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Keep trying. The trial and error method that worked on your mitre joint should
> prevail. I saw a good program on the coming earthquake for your area. Tom
> Someday, it'll all be over....
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:04:06 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>Skeez,
>
>I did think about the contrasting keys as I was fooling around with the
>mitered joints, but the whole mitered look leaves me cold. Plus I'm
>unable to think of way to clamp them. Not saying it's impossible, but
>just can't envision it. A strap won't work due the 12 degree angle.
>I've thought that maybe I could use carpet tape to stick some wedges on
>near the joint to provide a perpendicular surface to clamp...
>
>Man, this is should be a relatively simple project! What's gonna happen
>when I get to the china cabinet??
>
>dave
LOL welcome to the WWOWW [wonderfull world of wood working] as far as
clamping you can hot glue or nail or screw blocks to the bench and use
wedges to clamp the wide part of the box then cut a hole in some MDF
of scrap plywood a little larger than the small part of your box.
place the cutout over the project and clamp it down evenly to pull the
joints together. hope all this makes sense to you. i can see it in my
head!!! lol..... you will be placing the box top down on the bench if
that helps. if you set up a jig to do the keyways you can make it look
as if you used dovetails or box joints. i saw some pics of this some
place but im not sure where. ahhhh the memory is the first thing to
go!!! :-] skeez
LOL! oops, I'm sorry, I shouldn't be laughing, but the way you told the
tale was priceless! Thanks for putting yesterday in perspective. After
all I didn't break anything, nor did I come away with fewer limbs.
Today I worked on something a whole lot simpler: a featherboard for the
router table! :)
dave
Swingman wrote:
> "Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
>
>>SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I want
>>it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
>
>
> Chicken one day, feathers the next ... fact of wooddorking. There will days
> when you consider yourself lucky to get out of the shop with all digits
> intact and no blood on the tools.
>
> Here's an old post of mine to make you feel better:
>
> "Dropped arbor nut and washer in cabinet saw full of saw dust while changing
> back to dado stack to widen some dadoes that were a scooch too tight. (This
> should of clued me in as to the way the day was going, but I was too busy
> wondering where all that damn sawdust came from?)
>
> Changed back to a combo blade, but noticed that I somehow missed one dado in
> a carcass panel that got left on the other side of the shop. Had to
> re-assemble dado stack and set up again for one 4 1/2" cut. (Definitely
> shoulda' quit after dropping the nut and washer.)
>
> Gouged the QSWO face frame, not once, but twice, while routing it flush to
> the case sides. It really didn't need flushing up that bad, but I did it any
> ^$^%# way.
>
> Measured three times and cut the last piece of QSWO for bottom leg and trim
> 1/8" too short for the 22 1/2 degree miter joint. Cutting the next piece
> 1/8th" too long made it stick up 1/8" proud of the short piece ... I damn
> well knew it would, but I ^$^%# did it anyway.
>
> Battery for cordless drill died, fini, won't take a charge ... with glue on
> the cleats drying.
>
> Grabbed spare battery and immediately broke off bit in carcass side drilling
> pilot hole for wood screw ... forever there it shall remain.
>
> Spare (now main, and only) battery for cordless drill went tits up 30
> minutes later during glue up of other side braces and cleats. (That's two
> DeWally 18v suckers gone in six months!)
>
> Grabbed trusty old 3/8" corded drill and immediately drilled pilot hole too
> low and put woodscrew though front of cabinet where face frame meets trim.
>
> On next hole, trusty corded drill quit running in anything but reverse ...
> after 20 years of service.
>
> Now completely drillless, with more glue drying, 'Brad nailer til the glue
> dries' jammed on first shot (for the first time ever) and took 30 minutes to
> take apart and clear.
>
> I did walk out of the shop with all fingers and toes, so, considering the
> preponderance of the day, it weren't half bad."
>
> ... and you thought you had a bad day.
>
BAD wrote:>SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I
want
>it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
>
>
>FIRST ATTEMPT: ROUTER TABLE - DOVETAILS
>First I tried my router table to make dovetails. I cut the ends at 12
>degrees first and cut the tails. So far so good. The I cut the pins but
>they were cut at the wrong angle. So I recut them but the DT don't fit
>together, even if I pare the triangles as indicated in the Incra through
>dovetail instructions.
>
>SECOND ATTEMPT: BAND SAW BOX JOINTS
>So I tried box joints on the band saw by tilting the table to 12
>degrees. To make a long story short, I didn't appreciate the results...
>
>THIRD ATTEMPT: MITERS
>By trial and error I came "close" to a workable miter joint but I don't
>like the look of miter joints and cringe at the thought of securing it
>correctly during glue up, as the joint is sloped 12 degrees. I tried a
>number zero biscuit which holds the corner in alignment but how do I put
>pressure on the joint?
>
>Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
>describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with a
>joint other than a miter?
>
>(Maybe I'm not really cut out for woodworking...)
>
>oh, and please don't suggest a multi router. :)
>
>bummed, dave
>
>
>
Keep trying. The trial and error method that worked on your mitre joint should
prevail. I saw a good program on the coming earthquake for your area. Tom
Someday, it'll all be over....
Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
snip
> Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
> describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with a
> joint other than a miter?
>
> (Maybe I'm not really cut out for woodworking...)
>
> oh, and please don't suggest a multi router. :)
>
> bummed, dave
Lock Miter router bit, precision positionable fence with zero
clearance insert and a couple of jigs to hold the parts while
you route them?
BTW - you in the SF Bay Area - I'm in San Jose. If you're
close enough you can try it - on a JoinTech rather than an
Incra. Bring cut scraps of the stock you're using so the
set up works for them. Can make an MDF "template" for the
two cuts so future set up - with the same lock miter bit
becomes a no brainer.
charlie b
Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
> Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
> describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with
> a joint other than a miter?
Why not ask David Eisan. I saw him doing joinery seminars at a woodshow.
I liked when he would post progress pictures of current projects.
Explaining how he decided on things and why. Rather than just a, "I'm
finished" picture. What happened to them?
J
Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
> Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
> describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with
> a joint other than a miter?
Why not ask David Eisan. I saw him doing joinery seminars at a woodshow.
I liked when he would post progress pictures of current projects.
Explaining how he decided on things and why. Rather than just a, "I'm
finished" picture. What happened to them?
J
In article <[email protected]>,
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>it's rectangular, but just like crown molding, because the sides are
>angled (12 degrees) a 45 isn't quite correct for the bevel. and 44
>isn't gonna do it either. :) believe me the saw is accurate. check the
>owners manual, page 13 for the 705. there are 3 arcs drawn across a
>chart. the top arc is for square boxes with sloping sides. 90 minus 12
>is 78. find 78 on the top arc and it corresponds with about 44.3 or
>thereabouts. The trick is to read the bevel scale to that degree of
>accuracy when you are setting the bevel angle on the saw. there's no
>margin for error for a tight joint...sigh
That is *if* you're laying the stock flat.
Make a jig that holds the stock to the 12 degree angle, and *then* cut
with the saw at 45 degrees.
It's just like either: cutting crown moldings with the molding laying flat,
and the 'funny' angles, or propping the molding up at the actual angle
it will be at on the wall, and cutting it 'square' (i.e. 45 degree angle)
The two methods *are* equivalent. Fudge the saw to 'funny' angles to compensate
for the different (simple/sane) orientation of the board, or hold the board at
the 'appropriate' "funny angle", and cut to the 'intuitive' (aka sane/simple)
angles.
"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
> SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I want
> it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
Chicken one day, feathers the next ... fact of wooddorking. There will days
when you consider yourself lucky to get out of the shop with all digits
intact and no blood on the tools.
Here's an old post of mine to make you feel better:
"Dropped arbor nut and washer in cabinet saw full of saw dust while changing
back to dado stack to widen some dadoes that were a scooch too tight. (This
should of clued me in as to the way the day was going, but I was too busy
wondering where all that damn sawdust came from?)
Changed back to a combo blade, but noticed that I somehow missed one dado in
a carcass panel that got left on the other side of the shop. Had to
re-assemble dado stack and set up again for one 4 1/2" cut. (Definitely
shoulda' quit after dropping the nut and washer.)
Gouged the QSWO face frame, not once, but twice, while routing it flush to
the case sides. It really didn't need flushing up that bad, but I did it any
^$^%# way.
Measured three times and cut the last piece of QSWO for bottom leg and trim
1/8" too short for the 22 1/2 degree miter joint. Cutting the next piece
1/8th" too long made it stick up 1/8" proud of the short piece ... I damn
well knew it would, but I ^$^%# did it anyway.
Battery for cordless drill died, fini, won't take a charge ... with glue on
the cleats drying.
Grabbed spare battery and immediately broke off bit in carcass side drilling
pilot hole for wood screw ... forever there it shall remain.
Spare (now main, and only) battery for cordless drill went tits up 30
minutes later during glue up of other side braces and cleats. (That's two
DeWally 18v suckers gone in six months!)
Grabbed trusty old 3/8" corded drill and immediately drilled pilot hole too
low and put woodscrew though front of cabinet where face frame meets trim.
On next hole, trusty corded drill quit running in anything but reverse ...
after 20 years of service.
Now completely drillless, with more glue drying, 'Brad nailer til the glue
dries' jammed on first shot (for the first time ever) and took 30 minutes to
take apart and clear.
I did walk out of the shop with all fingers and toes, so, considering the
preponderance of the day, it weren't half bad."
... and you thought you had a bad day.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/16/04
patriarch,
thanks for the words. I'd like to see my dad take up a bit of
woodworking so we can pass some time together in my shop "doing" instead
of me just showing him what I've done. He's done tons of handyman stuff
on his house like hardwood floors, tile shower and counter, decks, that
sort of thing. The only pieces of WW equipment he has is a Crapsman TS
and a Delta 10" miter and neither of them comes out from under wraps much.
I'm sure the satisfaction of helping a friend FAR outweighed the
temporary thrill of unpacking a new tool! We should all be so blessed
to have someone who cares and who puts that caring into action.
I'm sure the angled sides boxes CAN be made in a home shop; the question
is can they be made in MINE! :)
Charlie offered to help me with this but I hate to take up his time...
dave
patriarch wrote:
> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I
>>want it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
>>
>
> <snippage of a report of a tough day>
>
> I'm sorry, Dave. I guess you were the karmic balance for the day I enjoyed
> in my shop yesterday.
>
> An older friend came by, to 'help' me with a project for his house. When
> he was younger, and healthier, he could woodwork rings around my current
> skill level, which has increased over the last couple of years. But he's
> getting older, and has some fairly severe limitations on how much he can
> do, and yet there is this project which must get done soon, and be done
> well. See, his mother, in her late '80s, is needing to move in with them.
>
> So I spent pretty much the whole day in my shop with, and for, him, doing a
> project that has to be done soon. Wore me out physically, but shored me up
> emotionally. He watched and visited, consulted and told stories.
>
> Planes and thickness planers, table and miter saws, mortises and tenons,
> glue and clamps. Working out the plan as we go along. Simple work, but
> really sturdy.
>
> There are maybe 10 of my other projects in various states of completion,
> and two new tools still in their Delta boxes, but nothing more important
> needed doing yesterday.
>
> It was a good day in the shop. Sorry if you were the balance in the
> universe. ;-)
>
> Seriously, all of this, (and all of life, if you want to get
> philosophical), is a learning experience, and we are a work in progress.
> I've sent three big boxes of scrap to my father's firewood stack since
> Christmas. If only it was that easy to be rid of mistakes in other modes
> of life....
>
> Take another whack at it Dave! I've seen angled sided in-boxes. They can
> be made in a home shop.
>
> Patriarch
Skeez,
I did think about the contrasting keys as I was fooling around with the
mitered joints, but the whole mitered look leaves me cold. Plus I'm
unable to think of way to clamp them. Not saying it's impossible, but
just can't envision it. A strap won't work due the 12 degree angle.
I've thought that maybe I could use carpet tape to stick some wedges on
near the joint to provide a perpendicular surface to clamp...
Man, this is should be a relatively simple project! What's gonna happen
when I get to the china cabinet??
dave
[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:24:13 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I want
>>it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
>>
>>
>>FIRST ATTEMPT: ROUTER TABLE - DOVETAILS
>>First I tried my router table to make dovetails. I cut the ends at 12
>>degrees first and cut the tails. So far so good. The I cut the pins but
>>they were cut at the wrong angle. So I recut them but the DT don't fit
>>together, even if I pare the triangles as indicated in the Incra through
>>dovetail instructions.
>>
>>SECOND ATTEMPT: BAND SAW BOX JOINTS
>>So I tried box joints on the band saw by tilting the table to 12
>>degrees. To make a long story short, I didn't appreciate the results...
>>
>>THIRD ATTEMPT: MITERS
>>By trial and error I came "close" to a workable miter joint but I don't
>>like the look of miter joints and cringe at the thought of securing it
>>correctly during glue up, as the joint is sloped 12 degrees. I tried a
>>number zero biscuit which holds the corner in alignment but how do I put
>>pressure on the joint?
>>
>>Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
>>describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with a
>>joint other than a miter?
>>
>>(Maybe I'm not really cut out for woodworking...)
>>
>>oh, and please don't suggest a multi router. :)
>>
>>bummed, dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> hi dave. how bout miter joints and after glue up go back to the
> router table and cut keyways in the joints and make some keys out of
> another species of wood for contrast? makes a good looking and very
> strong box. skeez
Dave,
FWW had an article on hot glue applications and one of them was gluing
wedges on angled glue ups to get parallel surfaces. I've messed with double
sided tape before and I don't like it all that much (sometimes it slips --
crappy when you're template routing) and have wondered what hot glue would
be like. I have no experience, so just "words" of advice, not actual "I did
this and it worked".
Mike
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Skeez,
>
> I did think about the contrasting keys as I was fooling around with the
> mitered joints, but the whole mitered look leaves me cold. Plus I'm
> unable to think of way to clamp them. Not saying it's impossible, but
> just can't envision it. A strap won't work due the 12 degree angle.
> I've thought that maybe I could use carpet tape to stick some wedges on
> near the joint to provide a perpendicular surface to clamp...
>
> Man, this is should be a relatively simple project! What's gonna happen
> when I get to the china cabinet??
>
> dave
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:24:13 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I want
> >>it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
> >>
> >>
> >>FIRST ATTEMPT: ROUTER TABLE - DOVETAILS
> >>First I tried my router table to make dovetails. I cut the ends at 12
> >>degrees first and cut the tails. So far so good. The I cut the pins but
> >>they were cut at the wrong angle. So I recut them but the DT don't fit
> >>together, even if I pare the triangles as indicated in the Incra through
> >>dovetail instructions.
> >>
> >>SECOND ATTEMPT: BAND SAW BOX JOINTS
> >>So I tried box joints on the band saw by tilting the table to 12
> >>degrees. To make a long story short, I didn't appreciate the
results...
> >>
> >>THIRD ATTEMPT: MITERS
> >>By trial and error I came "close" to a workable miter joint but I don't
> >>like the look of miter joints and cringe at the thought of securing it
> >>correctly during glue up, as the joint is sloped 12 degrees. I tried a
> >>number zero biscuit which holds the corner in alignment but how do I put
> >>pressure on the joint?
> >>
> >>Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
> >>describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with a
> >>joint other than a miter?
> >>
> >>(Maybe I'm not really cut out for woodworking...)
> >>
> >>oh, and please don't suggest a multi router. :)
> >>
> >>bummed, dave
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > hi dave. how bout miter joints and after glue up go back to the
> > router table and cut keyways in the joints and make some keys out of
> > another species of wood for contrast? makes a good looking and very
> > strong box. skeez
>
actually, 45 degrees won't work. the correct angle is somewhere between
44 and 45. I've tried several tries, but end up with gaps due to
incorrect bevel angle...
I didn't have near this much trouble when doing crown molding! :)
dave
[email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:04:06 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Man, this is should be a relatively simple project! What's gonna happen
>>when I get to the china cabinet??
>>
>>dave
>>
>
>
>
> as far as the sloped side all you need is a miter box. set up some
> stop blocks on the miter saw as you would for crown molding. whatever
> angle you want will work. you set it up so the wood sits at an angle
> and only have to cut 45's just as you would cut crown on a standard
> miter saw. this saves all the figuring of angles. i have a compound
> miter saw BUT i almost never set it on a bevel. instead i use one of
> my standard miter saws. the compound saw collects dust most of the
> time. its not that i cant figure out the angles its mostly because its
> easier to do it the old fasioned way for me. skeez
In news:[email protected],
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> typed:
> SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I
> want it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
>
>
> FIRST ATTEMPT: ROUTER TABLE - DOVETAILS
> First I tried my router table to make dovetails. I cut the ends at 12
> degrees first and cut the tails. So far so good. The I cut the pins
> but they were cut at the wrong angle. So I recut them but the DT
> don't fit together, even if I pare the triangles as indicated in the
> Incra through dovetail instructions.
>
> SECOND ATTEMPT: BAND SAW BOX JOINTS
> So I tried box joints on the band saw by tilting the table to 12
> degrees. To make a long story short, I didn't appreciate the
> results...
>
> THIRD ATTEMPT: MITERS
> By trial and error I came "close" to a workable miter joint but I
> don't like the look of miter joints and cringe at the thought of
> securing it correctly during glue up, as the joint is sloped 12
> degrees. I tried a number zero biscuit which holds the corner in
> alignment but how do I put pressure on the joint?
>
> Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
> describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with
> a joint other than a miter?
>
> (Maybe I'm not really cut out for woodworking...)
>
> oh, and please don't suggest a multi router. :)
>
> bummed, dave
Check out this PDF.
http://www.gifkins.com.au/instructionsB.pdf
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I
> want it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
>
<snippage of a report of a tough day>
I'm sorry, Dave. I guess you were the karmic balance for the day I enjoyed
in my shop yesterday.
An older friend came by, to 'help' me with a project for his house. When
he was younger, and healthier, he could woodwork rings around my current
skill level, which has increased over the last couple of years. But he's
getting older, and has some fairly severe limitations on how much he can
do, and yet there is this project which must get done soon, and be done
well. See, his mother, in her late '80s, is needing to move in with them.
So I spent pretty much the whole day in my shop with, and for, him, doing a
project that has to be done soon. Wore me out physically, but shored me up
emotionally. He watched and visited, consulted and told stories.
Planes and thickness planers, table and miter saws, mortises and tenons,
glue and clamps. Working out the plan as we go along. Simple work, but
really sturdy.
There are maybe 10 of my other projects in various states of completion,
and two new tools still in their Delta boxes, but nothing more important
needed doing yesterday.
It was a good day in the shop. Sorry if you were the balance in the
universe. ;-)
Seriously, all of this, (and all of life, if you want to get
philosophical), is a learning experience, and we are a work in progress.
I've sent three big boxes of scrap to my father's firewood stack since
Christmas. If only it was that easy to be rid of mistakes in other modes
of life....
Take another whack at it Dave! I've seen angled sided in-boxes. They can
be made in a home shop.
Patriarch
"Larry C in Auburn, WA" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:qVoPb.95277$5V2.304726@attbi_s53:
> Just be thankful that you can at least show your dad your projects.
> Many of us don't have that opportunity. You always get to define what
> success means to you in whatever you do. Success can be doing
> woodworking with your dad or success can be spending time with your
> dad, your call. Success can be finishing an in-basket with sloped
> sides or success can be spending relaxing time in your shop, again
> your call.
>
There is no doubt I've been blessed with the time with family and friends,
particularly in a stressfull 2003.
My shop time has been truly sawdust therapy. When my cell phone would ring
while spending time in a woodworking class, those I couldn't ignore often
were told that I'd return their call after I got done with my "meeting".
It was enlightening to observe how my productivity and creativity in my
paid profession increased, as I spent more mental energy solving
woodworking problems, and less time beating my head against the wall,
whilst other divisions struggled to solve challenges half a world away.
And my family says I'm easier to be with, too.
On the sloped, mitered sides challenge, consider using glue blocks attached
with hot melt glue. This tip courtesy of the jewlery box guru at Diablo
Woodworkers, in Pleasant Hill, CA, Jeff Trager. I think there was
something in one of the publications I read recently as well.
Patriarch
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:17:56 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>actually, 45 degrees won't work. the correct angle is somewhere between
>44 and 45. I've tried several tries, but end up with gaps due to
>incorrect bevel angle...
>
>I didn't have near this much trouble when doing crown molding! :)
>
>dave
>
????????????? is this a square box with beveled sides or a trapazoid
with beveled side? check the accuracy of your miter saw. sounds like
something is amiss there. also check to see that all sides are the
correct length. coresponding sides must be exactly the same length. if
all is right with the world i assure you 45's will work..... and
then sometimes life just sucks!!!!!!!!!!! skeez
it's rectangular, but just like crown molding, because the sides are
angled (12 degrees) a 45 isn't quite correct for the bevel. and 44
isn't gonna do it either. :) believe me the saw is accurate. check the
owners manual, page 13 for the 705. there are 3 arcs drawn across a
chart. the top arc is for square boxes with sloping sides. 90 minus 12
is 78. find 78 on the top arc and it corresponds with about 44.3 or
thereabouts. The trick is to read the bevel scale to that degree of
accuracy when you are setting the bevel angle on the saw. there's no
margin for error for a tight joint...sigh
dave
[email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:17:56 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>actually, 45 degrees won't work. the correct angle is somewhere between
>>44 and 45. I've tried several tries, but end up with gaps due to
>>incorrect bevel angle...
>>
>>I didn't have near this much trouble when doing crown molding! :)
>>
>>dave
>>
>
> ????????????? is this a square box with beveled sides or a trapazoid
> with beveled side? check the accuracy of your miter saw. sounds like
> something is amiss there. also check to see that all sides are the
> correct length. coresponding sides must be exactly the same length. if
> all is right with the world i assure you 45's will work..... and
> then sometimes life just sucks!!!!!!!!!!! skeez
>
>
Dave,
Hate to tell you but I was working on some small boxes/drawers for a
hanging tool case. Not double angled boxes, but the front or side was
angled and I cut dove tails by hand. Not that hard. Fronts for these
drawers where cherry and they where 1/2 blind (not the easiest to cut
by hand.) Took a little longer, but now I know that I can handle the
angled dovetails without a problem.
Think about doing it by hand. Not much longer than with a machine if
you have to do all of this setup.
My 0.02
Ron
Works great and is not nearly as prone to slipping as double sided
tape
Have almost stopped using doublesided tape and instead reach for the
hotmelt glue gun anymore for temp fastening while working
John
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:18:48 GMT, "Mike in Idaho" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Dave,
>
>FWW had an article on hot glue applications and one of them was gluing
>wedges on angled glue ups to get parallel surfaces. I've messed with double
>sided tape before and I don't like it all that much (sometimes it slips --
>crappy when you're template routing) and have wondered what hot glue would
>be like. I have no experience, so just "words" of advice, not actual "I did
>this and it worked".
>
>Mike
>
>"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Skeez,
>>
>> I did think about the contrasting keys as I was fooling around with the
>> mitered joints, but the whole mitered look leaves me cold. Plus I'm
>> unable to think of way to clamp them. Not saying it's impossible, but
>> just can't envision it. A strap won't work due the 12 degree angle.
>> I've thought that maybe I could use carpet tape to stick some wedges on
>> near the joint to provide a perpendicular surface to clamp...
>>
>> Man, this is should be a relatively simple project! What's gonna happen
>> when I get to the china cabinet??
>>
>> dave
>>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:24:13 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I want
>> >>it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>FIRST ATTEMPT: ROUTER TABLE - DOVETAILS
>> >>First I tried my router table to make dovetails. I cut the ends at 12
>> >>degrees first and cut the tails. So far so good. The I cut the pins but
>> >>they were cut at the wrong angle. So I recut them but the DT don't fit
>> >>together, even if I pare the triangles as indicated in the Incra through
>> >>dovetail instructions.
>> >>
>> >>SECOND ATTEMPT: BAND SAW BOX JOINTS
>> >>So I tried box joints on the band saw by tilting the table to 12
>> >>degrees. To make a long story short, I didn't appreciate the
>results...
>> >>
>> >>THIRD ATTEMPT: MITERS
>> >>By trial and error I came "close" to a workable miter joint but I don't
>> >>like the look of miter joints and cringe at the thought of securing it
>> >>correctly during glue up, as the joint is sloped 12 degrees. I tried a
>> >>number zero biscuit which holds the corner in alignment but how do I put
>> >>pressure on the joint?
>> >>
>> >>Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
>> >>describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with a
>> >>joint other than a miter?
>> >>
>> >>(Maybe I'm not really cut out for woodworking...)
>> >>
>> >>oh, and please don't suggest a multi router. :)
>> >>
>> >>bummed, dave
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > hi dave. how bout miter joints and after glue up go back to the
>> > router table and cut keyways in the joints and make some keys out of
>> > another species of wood for contrast? makes a good looking and very
>> > strong box. skeez
>>
>
Robert Bonomi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>> it's rectangular, but just like crown molding, because the sides are
>> angled (12 degrees) a 45 isn't quite correct for the bevel. and 44
>> isn't gonna do it either. :) believe me the saw is accurate. check
>> the owners manual, page 13 for the 705. there are 3 arcs drawn
>> across a chart. the top arc is for square boxes with sloping sides.
>> 90 minus 12 is 78. find 78 on the top arc and it corresponds with
>> about 44.3 or thereabouts. The trick is to read the bevel scale to
>> that degree of accuracy when you are setting the bevel angle on the
>> saw. there's no margin for error for a tight joint...sigh
>
> That is *if* you're laying the stock flat.
>
> Make a jig that holds the stock to the 12 degree angle, and *then* cut
> with the saw at 45 degrees.
>
>
> It's just like either: cutting crown moldings with the molding laying
> flat, and the 'funny' angles, or propping the molding up at the
> actual angle
> it will be at on the wall, and cutting it 'square' (i.e. 45 degree
> angle)
>
> The two methods *are* equivalent. Fudge the saw to 'funny' angles to
> compensate for the different (simple/sane) orientation of the board,
> or hold the board at the 'appropriate' "funny angle", and cut to the
> 'intuitive' (aka sane/simple) angles.
I was just typing practically the same thing when I thought I'd better read
some more replies. Good info Robert.
Gary
Sweet!! Template routing sure beats using my drum sander (precision and
speed) and it's always great to hear when someone's actually tried it and it
works. Thanks John!
"John Crea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Works great and is not nearly as prone to slipping as double sided
> tape
>
> Have almost stopped using doublesided tape and instead reach for the
> hotmelt glue gun anymore for temp fastening while working
>
> John
>
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:04:06 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Man, this is should be a relatively simple project! What's gonna happen
>when I get to the china cabinet??
>
>dave
>
as far as the sloped side all you need is a miter box. set up some
stop blocks on the miter saw as you would for crown molding. whatever
angle you want will work. you set it up so the wood sits at an angle
and only have to cut 45's just as you would cut crown on a standard
miter saw. this saves all the figuring of angles. i have a compound
miter saw BUT i almost never set it on a bevel. instead i use one of
my standard miter saws. the compound saw collects dust most of the
time. its not that i cant figure out the angles its mostly because its
easier to do it the old fasioned way for me. skeez
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:24:13 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I want
>it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
>
>
>FIRST ATTEMPT: ROUTER TABLE - DOVETAILS
>First I tried my router table to make dovetails. I cut the ends at 12
>degrees first and cut the tails. So far so good. The I cut the pins but
>they were cut at the wrong angle. So I recut them but the DT don't fit
>together, even if I pare the triangles as indicated in the Incra through
>dovetail instructions.
>
>SECOND ATTEMPT: BAND SAW BOX JOINTS
>So I tried box joints on the band saw by tilting the table to 12
>degrees. To make a long story short, I didn't appreciate the results...
>
>THIRD ATTEMPT: MITERS
>By trial and error I came "close" to a workable miter joint but I don't
>like the look of miter joints and cringe at the thought of securing it
>correctly during glue up, as the joint is sloped 12 degrees. I tried a
>number zero biscuit which holds the corner in alignment but how do I put
>pressure on the joint?
>
>Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
>describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with a
>joint other than a miter?
>
>(Maybe I'm not really cut out for woodworking...)
>
>oh, and please don't suggest a multi router. :)
>
>bummed, dave
>
>
>
>
hi dave. how bout miter joints and after glue up go back to the
router table and cut keyways in the joints and make some keys out of
another species of wood for contrast? makes a good looking and very
strong box. skeez
In news:[email protected],
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> typed:
> SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I
> want it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
>
>
> FIRST ATTEMPT: ROUTER TABLE - DOVETAILS
> First I tried my router table to make dovetails. I cut the ends at 12
> degrees first and cut the tails. So far so good. The I cut the pins
> but they were cut at the wrong angle. So I recut them but the DT
> don't fit together, even if I pare the triangles as indicated in the
> Incra through dovetail instructions.
>
> SECOND ATTEMPT: BAND SAW BOX JOINTS
> So I tried box joints on the band saw by tilting the table to 12
> degrees. To make a long story short, I didn't appreciate the
> results...
>
> THIRD ATTEMPT: MITERS
> By trial and error I came "close" to a workable miter joint but I
> don't like the look of miter joints and cringe at the thought of
> securing it correctly during glue up, as the joint is sloped 12
> degrees. I tried a number zero biscuit which holds the corner in
> alignment but how do I put pressure on the joint?
>
> Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that
> describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with
> a joint other than a miter?
>
> (Maybe I'm not really cut out for woodworking...)
>
> oh, and please don't suggest a multi router. :)
>
> bummed, dave
Here's another using the Leigh jig but I'm sure it could be adapted if
you're using something else.
http://leighjigs.com/data/leighadt.pdf
Just be thankful that you can at least show your dad your projects. Many of
us don't have that opportunity. You always get to define what success means
to you in whatever you do. Success can be doing woodworking with your dad
or success can be spending time with your dad, your call. Success can be
finishing an in-basket with sloped sides or success can be spending relaxing
time in your shop, again your call.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> patriarch,
>
> thanks for the words. I'd like to see my dad take up a bit of
> woodworking so we can pass some time together in my shop "doing" instead
> of me just showing him what I've done. He's done tons of handyman stuff
> on his house like hardwood floors, tile shower and counter, decks, that
> sort of thing. The only pieces of WW equipment he has is a Crapsman TS
> and a Delta 10" miter and neither of them comes out from under wraps much.
>
> I'm sure the satisfaction of helping a friend FAR outweighed the
> temporary thrill of unpacking a new tool! We should all be so blessed
> to have someone who cares and who puts that caring into action.
>
> I'm sure the angled sides boxes CAN be made in a home shop; the question
> is can they be made in MINE! :)
>
> Charlie offered to help me with this but I hate to take up his time...
>
> dave
>
> patriarch wrote:
>
> > Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >
> >
> >>SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I
> >>want it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
> >>
> >
> > <snippage of a report of a tough day>
> >
> > I'm sorry, Dave. I guess you were the karmic balance for the day I
enjoyed
> > in my shop yesterday.
> >
> > An older friend came by, to 'help' me with a project for his house.
When
> > he was younger, and healthier, he could woodwork rings around my current
> > skill level, which has increased over the last couple of years. But
he's
> > getting older, and has some fairly severe limitations on how much he can
> > do, and yet there is this project which must get done soon, and be done
> > well. See, his mother, in her late '80s, is needing to move in with
them.
> >
> > So I spent pretty much the whole day in my shop with, and for, him,
doing a
> > project that has to be done soon. Wore me out physically, but shored me
up
> > emotionally. He watched and visited, consulted and told stories.
> >
> > Planes and thickness planers, table and miter saws, mortises and tenons,
> > glue and clamps. Working out the plan as we go along. Simple work, but
> > really sturdy.
> >
> > There are maybe 10 of my other projects in various states of completion,
> > and two new tools still in their Delta boxes, but nothing more important
> > needed doing yesterday.
> >
> > It was a good day in the shop. Sorry if you were the balance in the
> > universe. ;-)
> >
> > Seriously, all of this, (and all of life, if you want to get
> > philosophical), is a learning experience, and we are a work in progress.
> > I've sent three big boxes of scrap to my father's firewood stack since
> > Christmas. If only it was that easy to be rid of mistakes in other
modes
> > of life....
> >
> > Take another whack at it Dave! I've seen angled sided in-boxes. They
can
> > be made in a home shop.
> >
> > Patriarch
>
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LOL! oops, I'm sorry, I shouldn't be laughing, but the way you told the
> tale was priceless! Thanks for putting yesterday in perspective. After
> all I didn't break anything, nor did I come away with fewer limbs.
>
> Today I worked on something a whole lot simpler: a featherboard for the
> router table! :)
Good! May you walk out of the shop today feeling like Sam Maloof! ... (just
put a little curve on the edge and rub in some Blo/Tung/Poly)
I love it when that happnes. <g>
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/16/04