Hey Folks,
(And Happy Mother's Day to anyone who this applies to)
I came across some really nice looking Sycamore slabs from a local
lumber supplier and was thinking about building a desk using it as a
top (8/4 , keeping the live edge, and planed down to a reasonable
thickness) with some contrasting wood, maybe 8/4 cherry as the legs,
built in the Nakashime inspired style. I wanted to make through
mortises in the table top with substantial tenons from the legs
showing through.
Now I just read an old article in Fine Woodworking about Sycamore
being very unstable. My house is not airconditioned so this may be a
reason to avoid the sycamore and choose Maple instead.
I want to know if anyone here has worked with Sycamore, preferable
wide and thick dimensions, and what has been your expereince.
The dealer also has a lot of quarter sawn Sycamore and I took a piece
home to plane and was really impressed with the color and pattern.
There are a lot of flecks in it.
Thanks in advance for your comments,
Marc
On May 10, 9:32=A0pm, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I don't know for sure, but I would definitely trust /Fine Woodworking/
> on questions like this. Their wood/forestry guy (Bruce Hoadley) is very
> knowledgable and does his homework.
Actually, he's the guy that _assigns_ the homework. ;)
R
In article <[email protected]>, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <b07e8e24-02c2-43df-9a87-8e69bd7a4a33@s16g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>, marc
>> rosen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Hey Folks,
>>>(And Happy Mother's Day to anyone who this applies to)
>>>I came across some really nice looking Sycamore slabs from a local
>>>lumber supplier
>.... snip
>>
>>>I want to know if anyone here has worked with Sycamore, preferable
>>>wide and thick dimensions, and what has been your expereince.
>>
>> It works easily -- not surprising, because it's so soft. Be very careful
>> when sanding it; it's easy to take off more than you want to. A sharp card
>> scraper is a better choice than sandpaper, except for the final smoothing.
>>
>
> Do you have any issues with it "fuzzing" when scraped. I got a small
>amount several years ago, and IIRC, it did not plane or scrape cleanly, it
>always remained a bit fuzzy.
Yes; I take that as a sign that the scraper isn't sharp enough. :-)
Having said that, though, I do think it's necessary to do the final surfacing
with sandpaper.
On May 10, 11:04=A0pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]=
.com>, marc rosen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Hey Folks,
> >(And Happy Mother's Day to anyone who this applies to)
> >I came across some really nice looking Sycamore slabs from a local
> >lumber supplier
>
> There are two different woods known in different places as "sycamore":
>
> In the U.S. and Canada, "sycamore" means the American sycamore, Platanus
> occidentalis. In the U.K., "sycamore" means Acer pseudoplatanus, known
> variously as the London planetree, planetree maple, or sycamore maple.
>
> My comments apply to the former. If you're talking about the latter, igno=
re
> the rest of this post.
>
> > and was thinking about building a desk using it as a
> >top (8/4 , keeping the =A0live edge, and =A0planed down to a reasonable
> >thickness) with some contrasting wood, maybe 8/4 cherry as the legs,
> >built in the Nakashime inspired style. =A0I wanted to make through
> >mortises in the table top with substantial tenons from the legs
> >showing through.
>
> I wouldn't do that, for several reasons:
>
> Sycamore is *very* soft. It won't take much abuse without acquiring dents=
and
> dings. If you use it for a writing desk, you *must* use a pad on top of t=
he
> desk: if you lay a sheet of paper directly on the wood, and write with a
> pencil or ballpoint pen, you will leave impressions behind.
>
> I'm assuming -- maybe incorrectly -- that the slabs you're looking at are
> flatsawn. Flatsawn sycamore, to me, is one of the most unexciting-looking
> woods around. I wouldn't build anything out of FS sycamore, just on the l=
ooks
> alone.
>
> Then there's this other problem with FS sycamore:
>
> >Now I just read an old article in Fine Woodworking about Sycamore
> >being very unstable. =A0My house is not airconditioned so this may be a
> >reason to avoid the sycamore and choose Maple instead.
>
> Flatsawn sycamore *is* unstable. Quartersawn sycamore, OTOH, presents no
> problems at all. I've made several end tables, and a whole lot of drawer
> boxes, from QS sycamore without ever seeing *any* stability issues. My ho=
use
> is air conditioned, but we like fresh air, and prefer to simply open the
> windows as long as the ambient air, with a breeze, is tolerable -- so we'=
re
> definitely not in a 24x7x365 climate controlled environment.
>
> >I want to know if anyone here has worked with Sycamore, preferable
> >wide and thick dimensions, and what has been your expereince.
>
> It works easily -- not surprising, because it's so soft. Be very careful =
when
> sanding it; it's easy to take off more than you want to. A sharp card scr=
aper
> is a better choice than sandpaper, except for the final smoothing.
>
> An unexpected bonus to working sycamore is the pleasantly spicy smell whe=
n
> it's machined -- kinda reminds me of allspice and nutmeg.
>
> It soaks up glue like a sponge. Make sure to use ample amounts of glue on=
all
> your joinery.
>
> It soaks up varnish even worse than it soaks up glue. Regardless of what
> finish you select, plan on applying at least twice as many coats as you w=
ould
> on maple or cherry.
>
> >The dealer also has a lot of quarter sawn Sycamore and I took a piece
> >home to plane =A0and was really impressed with the color and pattern.
> >There are a lot of flecks in it.
>
> Quartersawn sycamore has to be one of the most beautiful woods there is.
> Flatsawn, though, the grain is dull, boring, lifeless -- nothing interest=
ing
> at all about it.
I agree with everything above. One proviso: IMO, sycamore's softness
makes it a poor wood for a desktop. Sign a check and leave a permanent
impression in the wood, that sort of thing. It just scratches too
easily for such a use.
I'd go with maple.
With any wood, for a desktop, I'd worry about warping over the years.
Gluing up in 2" or 3" wide strips is better, even if it is a PITA and
not as lovely as a solid top with a natural edge.
On May 10, 8:21=A0pm, marc rosen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hey Folks,
> (And Happy Mother's Day to anyone who this applies to)
> I came across some really nice looking Sycamore slabs from a local
> lumber supplier and was thinking about building a desk using it as a
> top (8/4 , keeping the =A0live edge, and =A0planed down to a reasonable
> thickness) with some contrasting wood, maybe 8/4 cherry as the legs,
> built in the Nakashime inspired style. =A0I wanted to make through
> mortises in the table top with substantial tenons from the legs
> showing through.
> Now I just read an old article in Fine Woodworking about Sycamore
> being very unstable. =A0My house is not airconditioned so this may be a
> reason to avoid the sycamore and choose Maple instead.
> I want to know if anyone here has worked with Sycamore, preferable
> wide and thick dimensions, and what has been your expereince.
> The dealer also has a lot of quarter sawn Sycamore and I took a piece
> home to plane =A0and was really impressed with the color and pattern.
> There are a lot of flecks in it.
> Thanks in advance for your comments,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Marc
Sycamore is beautiful wood. I'm not sure it's any more unstable than
maple, but I haven't checked the tables. Doesn't seem too bad from my
experience.
JP
On 5/10/2009 5:21 PM marc rosen spake thus:
> I came across some really nice looking Sycamore slabs from a local
> lumber supplier and was thinking about building a desk using it as a
> top (8/4 , keeping the live edge, and planed down to a reasonable
> thickness) with some contrasting wood, maybe 8/4 cherry as the legs,
> built in the Nakashime inspired style. I wanted to make through
> mortises in the table top with substantial tenons from the legs
> showing through.
> Now I just read an old article in Fine Woodworking about Sycamore
> being very unstable. My house is not airconditioned so this may be a
> reason to avoid the sycamore and choose Maple instead.
I don't know for sure, but I would definitely trust /Fine Woodworking/
on questions like this. Their wood/forestry guy (Bruce Hoadley) is very
knowledgable and does his homework.
--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself
- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article
> <b07e8e24-02c2-43df-9a87-8e69bd7a4a33@s16g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>, marc
> rosen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Hey Folks,
>>(And Happy Mother's Day to anyone who this applies to)
>>I came across some really nice looking Sycamore slabs from a local
>>lumber supplier
... snip
>
>>I want to know if anyone here has worked with Sycamore, preferable
>>wide and thick dimensions, and what has been your expereince.
>
> It works easily -- not surprising, because it's so soft. Be very careful
> when sanding it; it's easy to take off more than you want to. A sharp card
> scraper is a better choice than sandpaper, except for the final smoothing.
>
Do you have any issues with it "fuzzing" when scraped. I got a small
amount several years ago, and IIRC, it did not plane or scrape cleanly, it
always remained a bit fuzzy.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
Have you ever tried to split sycamore, like for firewood. It's nearly
impossible to split because the grain is as if it's woven. The flecks
you see in it is tiny endgrain-like ends of a "weave". It's not your
scraper that's dull, it's the wood. You are scraping something
similar to endgrain. Sand it, don't scrape it, for a smooth finish.
It warps/cups in the opposite direction a "normal" board would warp.
It's heavy as heck, too.
I'm not sure about the softness of the wood for a desk or table top.
It is very hard on endgrain, though. I tried making several items
with some I had milled and some I worked direct from the log. So for,
all of it is just as solid as when I made the items. The guitar body
and top face is still in perfect condition, so the thin cut pieces,
here, hasn't warped or checked and the environment is half the time
airconditioned and half the time not. The coffee table, made with
sassafras also, is in perfect condition, as well. No blemishes on its
surface, but I don't have children, either. **Just went out to the
shop and ran my thumbnail on a 1/4" panel....slight indentation, so I
would compare it to hard maple, but not the red maple. The red maple
is noticeably softer than the sycamore. I have some pecan, also, and
pecan seems to be harder.
I tried turning some, but I'm not a turner. I was learning at the
time, but I'm not that poor at simple turning. Requires sharp tools,
that's for sure, more so than some things I've turned.
It cuts with a router very good. Hardly ever any tear out. Rout with
very shallow passes or the wood will burn. My bits are sharp, too!
Do you know long ago was the tree cut and has it been kiln dried? If
the tree has been cut recently, stand the boards on end and see if
water drains out. If it does, let it drain or you'll have some
spalting, later... or you may want some spalting! However, if it
stays wet too long, it will rot and rot fast.
I'll have to think more to remember other things about working with
sycamore. I still have a 3' diam. log of it... been air drying (under
an overhang) for about 20 yrs, now.
Sonny
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Mark &
> Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
... snip
>>>
>>
>> Do you have any issues with it "fuzzing" when scraped. I got a small
>>amount several years ago, and IIRC, it did not plane or scrape cleanly, it
>>always remained a bit fuzzy.
>
> Yes; I take that as a sign that the scraper isn't sharp enough. :-)
>
> Having said that, though, I do think it's necessary to do the final
> surfacing with sandpaper.
Thanks. That confirms my experience.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
In article <b07e8e24-02c2-43df-9a87-8e69bd7a4a33@s16g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>, marc rosen <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hey Folks,
>(And Happy Mother's Day to anyone who this applies to)
>I came across some really nice looking Sycamore slabs from a local
>lumber supplier
There are two different woods known in different places as "sycamore":
In the U.S. and Canada, "sycamore" means the American sycamore, Platanus
occidentalis. In the U.K., "sycamore" means Acer pseudoplatanus, known
variously as the London planetree, planetree maple, or sycamore maple.
My comments apply to the former. If you're talking about the latter, ignore
the rest of this post.
> and was thinking about building a desk using it as a
>top (8/4 , keeping the live edge, and planed down to a reasonable
>thickness) with some contrasting wood, maybe 8/4 cherry as the legs,
>built in the Nakashime inspired style. I wanted to make through
>mortises in the table top with substantial tenons from the legs
>showing through.
I wouldn't do that, for several reasons:
Sycamore is *very* soft. It won't take much abuse without acquiring dents and
dings. If you use it for a writing desk, you *must* use a pad on top of the
desk: if you lay a sheet of paper directly on the wood, and write with a
pencil or ballpoint pen, you will leave impressions behind.
I'm assuming -- maybe incorrectly -- that the slabs you're looking at are
flatsawn. Flatsawn sycamore, to me, is one of the most unexciting-looking
woods around. I wouldn't build anything out of FS sycamore, just on the looks
alone.
Then there's this other problem with FS sycamore:
>Now I just read an old article in Fine Woodworking about Sycamore
>being very unstable. My house is not airconditioned so this may be a
>reason to avoid the sycamore and choose Maple instead.
Flatsawn sycamore *is* unstable. Quartersawn sycamore, OTOH, presents no
problems at all. I've made several end tables, and a whole lot of drawer
boxes, from QS sycamore without ever seeing *any* stability issues. My house
is air conditioned, but we like fresh air, and prefer to simply open the
windows as long as the ambient air, with a breeze, is tolerable -- so we're
definitely not in a 24x7x365 climate controlled environment.
>I want to know if anyone here has worked with Sycamore, preferable
>wide and thick dimensions, and what has been your expereince.
It works easily -- not surprising, because it's so soft. Be very careful when
sanding it; it's easy to take off more than you want to. A sharp card scraper
is a better choice than sandpaper, except for the final smoothing.
An unexpected bonus to working sycamore is the pleasantly spicy smell when
it's machined -- kinda reminds me of allspice and nutmeg.
It soaks up glue like a sponge. Make sure to use ample amounts of glue on all
your joinery.
It soaks up varnish even worse than it soaks up glue. Regardless of what
finish you select, plan on applying at least twice as many coats as you would
on maple or cherry.
>The dealer also has a lot of quarter sawn Sycamore and I took a piece
>home to plane and was really impressed with the color and pattern.
>There are a lot of flecks in it.
Quartersawn sycamore has to be one of the most beautiful woods there is.
Flatsawn, though, the grain is dull, boring, lifeless -- nothing interesting
at all about it.
In article <[email protected]>,
Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>Have you ever tried to split sycamore, like for firewood. It's nearly
>impossible to split because the grain is as if it's woven. The flecks
>you see in it is tiny endgrain-like ends of a "weave". It's not your
>scraper that's dull, it's the wood. You are scraping something
>similar to endgrain. Sand it, don't scrape it, for a smooth finish.
>It warps/cups in the opposite direction a "normal" board would warp.
>It's heavy as heck, too.
Green, yes, it's pretty heavy, because it grows best in wetlands, and the
green lumber is more water than wood. Kiln-dried, it's very lightweight.
>
>I'm not sure about the softness of the wood for a desk or table top.
>It is very hard on endgrain, though.
Nearly all woods are quite hard on endgrain. Sycamore is quite soft in the
other two directions, though.
Jay Pique wrote:
> On May 10, 8:21 pm, marc rosen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Now I just read an old article in Fine Woodworking about Sycamore
>> being very unstable.
<snip>
>
> Sycamore is beautiful wood. I'm not sure it's any more unstable than
> maple, but I haven't checked the tables. Doesn't seem too bad from my
> experience.
I don't have any experience with Sycamore, but according to this table
it seems you may be correct in speculating that it isn't any more
unstable than most other popular woods:
http://www.woodbin.com/ref/wood/shrink_table.htm
But I doubt you can rely entirely on a table to give the full answer.
Pecan (Hickory) and Poplar apparently aren't much different than
Sycamore, but I can tell you from experience that Pecan is an unstable
*bitch*; however, Poplar is generally pretty tame. I think a lot
depends on the nature of the wood itself, grain direction, the number of
defects, and how it was milled (quarter, flat, or rift), etc. Your
experience probably means more than the table.
If I break out my trusty book "The Encyclopedia of Wood" by the U.S.
Department of Agriculture, it has this to say about the properties of
American Sycamore:
"The wood has a fine texture and interlocked grain. It has high
shrinkage in drying; is moderately heavy, moderately hard, moderately,
stiff, and moderately strong; and has good resistance to shock.
Sycamore is used principally for lumber, veneer, railroad crossties,
slack cooperage, fence posts, and fuel. The lumber is used for
furniture, boxes (particularly small food containers), pallets,
flooring, handles, and butcher blocks. Veneer is used for fruit and
vegetable baskets and some decorative panels and door skins."
Hope that helps.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On May 12, 7:00=A0am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected].=
com>,
>
> Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Have you ever tried to split sycamore, like for firewood. =A0It's nearly
> >impossible to split because the grain is as if it's woven. =A0The flecks
> >you see in it is tiny endgrain-like ends of a "weave". =A0It's not your
> >scraper that's dull, it's the wood. =A0You are scraping something
> >similar to endgrain. =A0Sand it, don't scrape it, for a smooth finish.
> >It warps/cups in the opposite direction a "normal" board would warp.
> >It's heavy as heck, too.
>
> Green, yes, it's pretty heavy, because it grows best in wetlands, and the
> green lumber is more water than wood. Kiln-dried, it's very lightweight.
>
>
>
> >I'm not sure about the softness of the wood for a desk or table top.
> >It is very hard on endgrain, though.
>
> Nearly all woods are quite hard on endgrain. Sycamore is quite soft in th=
e
> other two directions, though.
Green sycamore is horrible for firewood. It comes near putting out
anything that isn't a roaring blaze, then, after it dries, it burns
faster than tulip poplar.
Sanding is the only way I ever managed to get a smooth finish on it,
but it sands very nicely.
Steve Turner wrote:
>
> http://www.woodbin.com/ref/wood/shrink_table.htm
>
What the heck Steve, you're always coming up with these great references.
Thanks
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply