I'm interested in possibly buying some Black Walnut logs that are
described as straight, 20" diameter, 6-8 ft in length, and having them
milled. Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
be gotten from such a log? I'm trying to decide if the cost would be
worth the effort to get the wood.
Cubic inches divided by 144 minus say 20% for drop.
Just a wild ass estimate on the drop. Maybe some day I'll have a mill
and really know what I'm talking about.
Or; from the wonders of Google and the web...@
http://www.uwex.edu/ces/ag/sus/wood/pdfindex/wman03.pdf
Process Overview
The purpose of saw milling is to produce lumber, cants, timbers, and
other high value wood componentsfrom the log. In the processing of a
14-inch diameter log into these products at the typical Wisconsin
sawmill, approximately 28 percent of the log is bark, 14 percent is
converted to coarse residues (chips), 14 percent is converted to fine
residues (sawdust), and 43 percent is solid wood--lumber, cants, and
the like. Smaller logs produce more course residues and less lumber
(10-inch log is 40 percent lumber; 6-inch log is 25 percent lumber);
larger logs produce slightly more lumber and less course residues.
The residue sources from a debarked log in a typical Wisconsin sawmill
are 7 to 18 percent sawdust, 11 percent edging strips, 3 percent edging
errors, 11 percent end trim, 5 percent slabs, and 3 percent excessive
lumber thickness.
In article <[email protected]>,
WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hax Planx wrote:
>> WillR says...
>>
>>
>>>Doug wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm interested in possibly buying some Black Walnut logs that are
>>>>described as straight, 20" diameter, 6-8 ft in length, and having them
>>>>milled. Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
>>>>be gotten from such a log? I'm trying to decide if the cost would be
>>>>worth the effort to get the wood.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>You said they are "straight" so it is just
>>>
>>>Pi * d X l (diameter and length)
>>>
>>>Use all inches --- so a 6' log
>>>
>>>3.14159 * 20 * 72 = 4524 cubic inches
>>>
>>>for BF -- 4524 / 144 = 31
>>
>>
>> Not quite. It is Pi x r^2 x l with r = radius, then divide by 144.
>> That works out to about 183 BF for a 7' log before subtracting waste.
>> Even at 40% waste, he should get well over 100 BF. Makes me wonder why
>> we pay so much for wood.
>
>
>Oops -- wasn't thinking -- too much of a hurry. Thanks.
>
><Pulls applied and theoretical Math degrees off wall and hides them quickly>
>
>lol
>
>
>The only excuse I can offer is that my mind (little that there is left)
>was on the usual "clipped cone" that is used in forestry calculations --
>more in softwood I think but still -- embarrassing .
>
>Circumference -- sheesh...
Just admit it, Will. You were thinking rotary-sawn veneer. *grin*
"Where there's a Will, theres a way.
Depending on the size of the tree,"
You will get between 96-128 BF of lumber......Brian
www.members.cox.net/bsnikitas
"Doug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm interested in possibly buying some Black Walnut logs that are
> described as straight, 20" diameter, 6-8 ft in length, and having them
> milled. Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
> be gotten from such a log? I'm trying to decide if the cost would be
> worth the effort to get the wood.
>
You will get 96-128 BF of lumber........Brian
--
www.members.cox.net/bsnikitas
"Doug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm interested in possibly buying some Black Walnut logs that are
> described as straight, 20" diameter, 6-8 ft in length, and having them
> milled. Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
> be gotten from such a log? I'm trying to decide if the cost would be
> worth the effort to get the wood.
>
"Doug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm interested in possibly buying some Black Walnut logs that are
> described as straight, 20" diameter, 6-8 ft in length, and having them
> milled. Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
> be gotten from such a log? I'm trying to decide if the cost would be
> worth the effort to get the wood.
>
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr01.pdf Called "cheatin'
sticks" in the industry. Take your pick.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us Will also find some dandy information on stacking
and drying as well.
"Hax Planx" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Not quite. It is Pi x r^2 x l with r = radius, then divide by 144.
> That works out to about 183 BF for a 7' log before subtracting waste.
> Even at 40% waste, he should get well over 100 BF. Makes me wonder why
> we pay so much for wood.
Posted a compendium of ways of estimating yield, which, by their sheer
number, should be a clue that this is not a science.
Note that the price of wood is based on the number of usable planks, and you
won't have to wonder about price.
Sawing through-and-through is not going to produce the greatest number of
high-grade boards.
This is the doyle scale.
www.callkits.com/doyle.htm
--
www.members.cox.net/bsnikitas
"Doug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm interested in possibly buying some Black Walnut logs that are
> described as straight, 20" diameter, 6-8 ft in length, and having them
> milled. Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
> be gotten from such a log? I'm trying to decide if the cost would be
> worth the effort to get the wood.
>
Robert Bonomi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Hax Planx wrote:
>>
>>>WillR says...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Doug wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm interested in possibly buying some Black Walnut logs that are
>>>>>described as straight, 20" diameter, 6-8 ft in length, and having them
>>>>>milled. Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
>>>>>be gotten from such a log? I'm trying to decide if the cost would be
>>>>>worth the effort to get the wood.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You said they are "straight" so it is just
>>>>
>>>>Pi * d X l (diameter and length)
>>>>
>>>>Use all inches --- so a 6' log
>>>>
>>>>3.14159 * 20 * 72 = 4524 cubic inches
>>>>
>>>>for BF -- 4524 / 144 = 31
>>>
>>>
>>>Not quite. It is Pi x r^2 x l with r = radius, then divide by 144.
>>>That works out to about 183 BF for a 7' log before subtracting waste.
>>>Even at 40% waste, he should get well over 100 BF. Makes me wonder why
>>>we pay so much for wood.
>>
>>
>>Oops -- wasn't thinking -- too much of a hurry. Thanks.
>>
>><Pulls applied and theoretical Math degrees off wall and hides them quickly>
>>
>>lol
>>
>>
>>The only excuse I can offer is that my mind (little that there is left)
>>was on the usual "clipped cone" that is used in forestry calculations --
>>more in softwood I think but still -- embarrassing .
>>
>>Circumference -- sheesh...
>
>
> Just admit it, Will. You were thinking rotary-sawn veneer. *grin*
>
>
> "Where there's a Will, theres a way.
> Depending on the size of the tree,"
I'm not even gonna try explaining my way out of a faux-pas like that
well OK -- SWMBO hassled me three time last night while I was writing --
got _nothing_ correct. She wanted to take me out to dinner -- the
miserable wretch -- and all she did was hassle me...
When I screw up there are no half measures. LOL
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
Hax Planx wrote:
> WillR says...
>=20
>=20
>>Doug wrote:
>>
>>>I'm interested in possibly buying some Black Walnut logs that are
>>>described as straight, 20" diameter, 6-8 ft in length, and having them=
>>>milled. Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
>>>be gotten from such a log? I'm trying to decide if the cost would be
>>>worth the effort to get the wood.
>>>
>>
>>
>>You said they are "straight" so it is just
>>
>>Pi * d X l (diameter and length)
>>
>>Use all inches --- so a 6' log
>>
>>3.14159 * 20 * 72 =3D 4524 cubic inches
>>
>>for BF -- 4524 / 144 =3D 31
>=20
>=20
> Not quite. It is Pi x r^2 x l with r =3D radius, then divide by 144. =
> That works out to about 183 BF for a 7' log before subtracting waste. =
> Even at 40% waste, he should get well over 100 BF. Makes me wonder why=
=20
> we pay so much for wood.
Oops -- wasn't thinking -- too much of a hurry. Thanks.
<Pulls applied and theoretical Math degrees off wall and hides them quick=
ly>
lol
The only excuse I can offer is that my mind (little that there is left)=20
was on the usual "clipped cone" that is used in forestry calculations -- =
more in softwood I think but still -- embarrassing .
Circumference -- sheesh...
--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw
WillR says...
> Doug wrote:
> > I'm interested in possibly buying some Black Walnut logs that are
> > described as straight, 20" diameter, 6-8 ft in length, and having them
> > milled. Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
> > be gotten from such a log? I'm trying to decide if the cost would be
> > worth the effort to get the wood.
> >
>
>
> You said they are "straight" so it is just
>
> Pi * d X l (diameter and length)
>
> Use all inches --- so a 6' log
>
> 3.14159 * 20 * 72 = 4524 cubic inches
>
> for BF -- 4524 / 144 = 31
Not quite. It is Pi x r^2 x l with r = radius, then divide by 144.
That works out to about 183 BF for a 7' log before subtracting waste.
Even at 40% waste, he should get well over 100 BF. Makes me wonder why
we pay so much for wood.
WillR says...
> Oops -- wasn't thinking -- too much of a hurry. Thanks.
>
> <Pulls applied and theoretical Math degrees off wall and hides them quickly>
>
> lol
>
>
> The only excuse I can offer is that my mind (little that there is left)
> was on the usual "clipped cone" that is used in forestry calculations --
> more in softwood I think but still -- embarrassing .
>
> Circumference -- sheesh...
Not a problem unless one of your former professors see the post.
There's nothing quite like that look of horror.
Doug wrote:
> I'm interested in possibly buying some Black Walnut logs that are
> described as straight, 20" diameter, 6-8 ft in length, and having them
> milled. Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
> be gotten from such a log? I'm trying to decide if the cost would be
> worth the effort to get the wood.
>
Woodweb has a log volume calculator. See:
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl?calculator=log_volume
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
(Remove -SPAM- to send email)
On 7 Jun 2005 13:01:26 -0700, "Doug" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
>be gotten from such a log?
No idea for black walnut. On English walnut you mill everything, then
look at the boards before you haggle. The stuff is so valuable and so
variable that you really have to see the quality of the figure before
you decide. I can't imagine how they work it out for _real_ walnut
(Armenian) -- it probably involves marrying off daughters.
For general logs you can use an ancient measure like "Hoppus feet" (a
Victorian pocket book of "diameter at chest height" to expected yield
calculations). There are modern equivalents, usually mandated by your
local government or industry body - for you guys there's one in the US
Forest Products handbook (George will undoubtedly post the link to
the PDF in a minute 8-) ).
On 7 Jun 2005 17:31:05 -0700, "Sam" <[email protected]> wrote:
>You should also find out if anyone will mill them. Not all mills will
>take just any log.
A portable bandsaw mill will usually mill anything. They're safe if they
hit something metal and the blade damage cost isn't so prohibitive that
it makes it impossible. Usually the deal is that the log owner pays for
any blade wear or damage, and most of the time you get away unscathed.
It's not usually (I'm talking about the UK) worth the labour costs to
set a portable mill up for just one log, _except_ in the case of walnut.
Or else if you just want the logs disposed of anyway, and slabbing them
is saving you crane truck hire as well.
Doug wrote:
> I'm interested in possibly buying some Black Walnut logs that are
> described as straight, 20" diameter, 6-8 ft in length, and having them
> milled. Is there a reliable way to estimate the boardfeet that might
> be gotten from such a log? I'm trying to decide if the cost would be
> worth the effort to get the wood.
>=20
You said they are "straight" so it is just
Pi * d X l (diameter and length)
Use all inches --- so a 6' log
3.14159 * 20 * 72 =3D 4524 cubic inches
for BF -- 4524 / 144 =3D 31
Normally professional foresters estimate a "conic section" and they have =
standard waste factors for the boards -- and then the sawdust and scrap=20
goes to the grinder to be used elsewhere -- mdf etc.
The logs have already been "bucked" to a consistent form factor by the=20
sound of it so just use the simple cylinder method as above.
Try 20 to 30 % waste as a guess -- you won't know till you mill a few=20
logs from the same stand or tree -- and for that few --- not worth=20
anything but a guesstimate. You get what you get.
We can get badly milled cherry here in Ontario for less than $2 a board=20
foot -- about 40% waste by the time you mill it up for a table. That's=20
behind some of the guesses.
Based on 20 board feet -- milled -- working out to one end/occasional=20
table for a living room after final cutting and delivering one table=20
using about 11 to to 14 board feet -- well there you go -- one table per =
6 foot log. Again -- assuming a further 20 to 40% waste -- _after_ the=20
log has been converted to "lumber" like 4/4 or whatever.
So if it is $1.50 to $4 a board foot cut into lumber -- yeah -- I would=20
do it. Otherwise I would strike a deal based on final usable "rough=20
milled" lumber.
Skill of the sawyer is everything -- last rough load I processed was=20
roughly trapezoidal 5/4 lumber and I needed 4/4 rough to mill to 3/4 s4s =
-- waste of cherry.
In other words -- pay for a _good_ sawyer and have some idea of what you =
will make -- or you will have a lot of waste -- or alternatively have to =
glue things back together.
Hope that is clear.
--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw