After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
"Leon" wrote
>
> That is not true. My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil on
> the butcher block and there has never been a problem with anything going
> rancid, at least in the last 30 years. While mineral oil and or a butcher
> block oil may be a better choice, vegetable oil has done just fine for us.
>
>
Perhaps your wife has a magic touch in the kitchen?? :-)
"Lew Hodgett" wrote
>
> Let's see now, my slab of plastic doesn't need to be oiled, will go in the
> dishwasher if desired, doesn't damage knife edge during use, can be
> sterilized with household bleach.
>
> That just about covers all my needs for a cutting board, but as a work of
> art, it sucks.
>
Does this mean you are going to create plastic cutting board art?? Think of
the marketing potential!
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" wrote
>>
>> That is not true. My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil on
>> the butcher block and there has never been a problem with anything going
>> rancid, at least in the last 30 years. While mineral oil and or a
>> butcher block oil may be a better choice, vegetable oil has done just
>> fine for us.
>>
>>
> Perhaps your wife has a magic touch in the kitchen?? :-)
>
That and she cleans the top after every use. I shutter to think that
some one would not. Perhaps the oil gets thinned down from use.
On May 7, 11:42=A0am, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>
> >> Flaxseed oil =A0makes you poop.
>
> >> So does my morning cup of coffee! =A0;~)
>
> > Nothing makes a better push-rod than that first cup of java.
>
> Uh, I think you're doing it wrong.
LOL
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article
>>> <ec17fa03-bd58-46fb-b3cc-0fccfcd49a30@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, Sasha
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
>>>>>into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
>>>>>make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
>>>>>important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
>>>>>it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
>>>>
>>>>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
>>>>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde glue,
>>>>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
>>>
>>>No, the first consideration for cutting board glues is whether or not
>>>it is safe to use in contact with food. I can find no cite that the
>>>glue above is FDA approved.
>>
>>I guess you should have looked a little harder. The technical bulletin listed
>>at the manufacturer's web site specifically recommends it for use in cutting
>>boards.
>>
>>
>>http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00030201.pdf
>
>If there is a cite for FDA approval in the bulletin, I can't find it.
One would assume that the manufacturer would not recomment the product for
unapproved uses...
Best to finish in Mineral oil. Buy it at the pharmacy. Vege might
depending on the brand go rancid or otherwise bad.
Martin
[email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 04 May 2009 13:14:34 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
> wrote:
>
>> In article <ec17fa03-bd58-46fb-b3cc-0fccfcd49a30@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, Sasha <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
>>> into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
>>> make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
>>> important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
>>> it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
>> Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
>> waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde glue,
>> such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
> Use "quater sawn" maple. Drill through the full width of the board
> and insert staimless steel "tension members, nutted tightly with the
> ends of the holes filled with dowels. You could also use some T88
> epoxy or equivalent on the joints between the bords if you want "belt
> and suspenders"
> Finish with vegetable oil
I was\am in the business of selling cutting boards (not so much
anymore) and I did my research and the rancid indication comes from
scientific sources (no I don't have the cites right now) but
basicially you are introducing a food for bacteria in the food based
oils. At the micro level you can get some growth which is
characterized as rancidity (word?).
On May 5, 10:49=A0am, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > =A0 My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil on the butcher bl=
ock
> > and there has never been a problem with anything going rancid, at least=
in
> > the last 30 years. =A0While mineral oil and or a butcher block oil may =
be a
> > better choice, vegetable oil has done just fine for us.
>
> Wesson oil for ours and the same for my mothers. I would bet that most of
> the "going rancid" replies are from people that are just repeating what
> others say rather than having any experience.
On May 4, 9:02=A0am, Sasha <[email protected]> wrote:
> After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
> into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
> make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
> important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
> it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
Is this a cutting board for 'work' or 'looks'?
If it is for work, a slab of polyethelene is the best choice. Won't
hurt your knives and is food safe.
Wooden boards need to be looked after with more care and make sure you
use food-safe adhesives and finishes. That also means NEVER to use
peanut oil to finish your board.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Flaxseed oil makes you poop.
Flaxseeds are really high in fibre. Of course it make you poop.
On May 5, 10:51=A0am, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> IMHO, if "food safe" is that important, drill the suckers for through bol=
ts and
> just worry about rust..
>
> I'd worry more about the bacteria and other goodies that grow in cutting =
boards
> than in the glue used.. YMWV
Nice - way to rain on the "sky is falling" parade. It's killjoys like
you that insert pragmatism and rational thinking into such threads
that take all the fun out of scaring the poop out of people. ;)
R
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ef4e9509-d00d-4c3d-9036-d30e29274d5a@l28g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
On May 6, 7:09 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
Flaxseed oil makes you poop.
So does my morning cup of coffee! ;~)
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>>[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>
>>>In article
>> <ec17fa03-bd58-46fb-b3cc-0fccfcd49a30@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, Sasha
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
>>>>into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
>>>>make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
>>>>important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
>>>>it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
>>>
>>>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
>>>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde glue,
>>>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
>>
>>No, the first consideration for cutting board glues is whether or not
>>it is safe to use in contact with food. I can find no cite that the
>>glue above is FDA approved.
>
>I guess you should have looked a little harder. The technical bulletin listed
>at the manufacturer's web site specifically recommends it for use in cutting
>boards.
>
>
>http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00030201.pdf
If there is a cite for FDA approval in the bulletin, I can't find it.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>In article <ec17fa03-bd58-46fb-b3cc-0fccfcd49a30@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, Sasha <[email protected]> wrote:
>>After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
>>into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
>>make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
>>important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
>>it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
>
>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde glue,
>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
No, the first consideration for cutting board glues is whether or not
it is safe to use in contact with food. I can find no cite that the
glue above is FDA approved.
The glue most often reccomened is Titebond -II or -III.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Walnut oil is totally safe for everyone not allergic to nuts!
On May 5, 7:03=A0am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "Leon" <remov=
[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Actully if you take all of the precautions that you mentioned and build =
a
> >butcher block style cutting board, "with end grain pointing up" the like=
ly
> >hood of the joints =A0and or wood splitting increase dramatically. =A0Th=
e end
> >grain will soak up enough liquids and oils that it will eventually swell=
and
> >can crack.
>
> Indeed that's true -- which is one reason I don't build cutting boards th=
at
> way. The other reason is I don't like the look.
>
> > I have a mobile butcher block that I build almost 30 years ago
> >that split for the reason mentioned after about 6 years of use. =A0Rods =
added
> >through the center have prevented this from reoccouring.
>
> Yep, I can see that. More trouble than it's worth IMO -- easier, and (aga=
in,
> IMO) better looking to use strips, with the edge grain up.
>
> >If your cutting board uses the side or edge of the wood for the cutting
> >surface glue is all that you should need.
>
> Agreed.
>
>
>
> >>>Finish with =A0vegetable oil
>
> >> Wrong, wrong, wrong. Most vegetable oils will become rancid in fairly =
short
> >> order. Finish with mineral oil, or with walnut oil.
>
> >That is not true. =A0My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil o=
n the
> >butcher block and there has never been a problem with anything going ran=
cid,
> >at least in the last 30 years. =A0While mineral oil and or a butcher blo=
ck oil
> >may be a better choice, vegetable oil has done just fine for us.
>
> OK, perhaps I should have said "may become rancid". Still better to use a=
n oil
> that eventually dries; walnut, being a food product, is of course complet=
ely
> food-safe. Or leave it unfinished, and dress it with a card scraper every=
now
> and again.
On May 6, 5:08=A0pm, Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> You could also (still can, I presume) buy the linseed oil
> itself to mix your own paint or make it flow better. =A0
You can still buy it just about anywhere. Just DAGS "raw linseed oil"
and you will get plenty of sources.
> It was my
> understanding that it was not at all toxic and I can still remember the
> wonderful smell, but I can't remember if I actually ever tasted it. =A0:-=
)
Flaxseed oil is the same thing, just refined differently. Like you, I
love the way it smells, and I remember going into old cabinets maker's
(not necessarily pros) shops that had that smell in the air.
That smell just seems to take you back a few years....
Robert
Yes use Maple. You want Hard Maple or Sugar Maple. Assuming you buy
boards that are surfaced flat, rip them to a width about 1/8" wider
than the thickness of board you want. Using different thickness boards
can add visual interest by making different width strips. If the rips
are clean enough then just flip them on edge and do a glue up using
Titebond II. Titebond III is a little more water secure but is the
wrong color for Maple. Make sure each board fits tight along its
entire length. If the rips are not super clean, then joint the ripped
faces. If you have any gaps, then joint them away.You may need to rip
a little wider to account for thickness loss of jointer. You want the
cutting face to be the edges of the boards.
Assuming you are going 1 to 1 1/2" thick, only glue up about 4 or 5
strips at a time to be sure you get good clamping pressure. Make as
many of the sub slabs as you need for the final board size. Flatten
the slabs in a wide sander or with a belt sander or other method. Hard
Maple will chip if you try to machine plane it but you could hand
plane if you are good.
Glue the slabs together into one final board. Flatten, dimension,
shape the edges as desired and sand out to 150.
Soak with mineral oil once a day for a week, onece a week for a month
and once a month for a year. This will yellow the wood significantly
but more importantly, the oil fills all the voids where the enemy
"Water" would like to go. It aslo keeps out other food oils that can
go rancid.
After using, rinse with hot water, dry with a towel and stand on edge
until dry. If occasionally you want to disinfect it, a 10% solution of
vinegar in warm water will do the trick, dry as stated before.
Never soak it in water. If you use Boiled Linseed Oil as suggested or
any other oil BE SURE it is pure and does not have any "Dries" in it.
These are heavy metal and very toxic. You can get mineral oil at
culinary shops or at the pharmacy. Some people suggest other fod oils
and generally they can go rancid so they are not suggested although it
seems that maybe walnut oil works, even though walnust themselves go
rancid quite easily but it is in pretty wide use in Europe. I prefer
mineral oil.
Finally, if it ever splits along a glue line (it can happen), just let
it dry for a week or two, rip it down that glueline and re-glue it.
On May 4, 6:02=A0am, Sasha <[email protected]> wrote:
> After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
> into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
> make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
> important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
> it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
On Mon, 04 May 2009 13:14:34 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <ec17fa03-bd58-46fb-b3cc-0fccfcd49a30@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, Sasha <[email protected]> wrote:
>>After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
>>into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
>>make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
>>important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
>>it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
>
>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde glue,
>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
Use "quater sawn" maple. Drill through the full width of the board
and insert staimless steel "tension members, nutted tightly with the
ends of the holes filled with dowels. You could also use some T88
epoxy or equivalent on the joints between the bords if you want "belt
and suspenders"
Finish with vegetable oil
On May 5, 12:49=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Let's see now, my slab of plastic doesn't need to be oiled, will go in
> the dishwasher if desired, doesn't damage knife edge during use, can
> be sterilized with household bleach.
>
> That just about covers all my needs for a cutting board, but as a work
> of art, it sucks.
Please double check the newsgroup name, you Philistine! ;)
R
On May 4, 11:18=A0am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] =
(Derek Lyons) wrote:
> >[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
> >>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
> >>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde gl=
ue,
> >>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
>
> >No, the first consideration for cutting board glues is whether or not
> >it is safe to use in contact with food. =A0I can find no cite that the
> >glue above is FDA approved.
>
> I guess you should have looked a little harder. The technical bulletin li=
sted
> at the manufacturer's web site specifically recommends it for use in cutt=
ing
> boards.
>
> http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00030201.pdf
>
> >The glue most often reccomened is Titebond -II or -III.
>
> Depends on who's doing the recommending...
As the guy who would be building the board, and my family and friends
the one eating off of it, I'd be less than thrilled to read these
words in the DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue MSDS:
EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE - INGESTION: May cause stomach and intestinal
irritation, vomiting, diarrhea, sweating, weakness, and headache.
Ingestion of over 1 gram/day of barium chloride (25 grams/day of
product) may raise blood pressure and affect heart action.
The amount is someone would ingest from a cutting board would be
minimal, but still, let's look for a safer alternative.
Gorilla Glue:
Ingestion Product is not intended to be ingested or eaten.If this
product is ingested,severe irritation of the gastrointestinal tract
may occur,and should be treated symptomatically. Do not induce the
patient or animal to vomit.Call a doctor,ambulance or seek
veterinarian assistance immediately.
The word severe scares me. Keep looking.
Titebond II:
INGESTION: No hazard expected in normal industrial use. Ingestion is
not a likely route of exposure.
Hmmm. I guess Titebond is weaseling around on this one. I cook meals
for small groups and the use of the product in a cutting board does
make the exposure route much more likely. Keep looking.
Maybe the new and improved Titebond III?
Nope. The most weaselly MSDS of them all. It states that ingestion
is a route of entry, and that you should contact a poison control
center immediately, but it has no information about the effects. It's
also interesting to see that they put NO to skin contact as a route of
entry, but it says it can cause skin irritation. From their promo
literature we have this gem: "FDA approved for indirect food contact"
What does that mean
Franklin's Hide Glue:
INGESTION: Single dose oral toxicity is considered to be extremely
low. No hazards expected from swallowing small amounts incidental to
normal handling operations. Ingestion may cause gastrointestinal
irritation.
If this is starting to make you nervous, take heart, the cutting board
you are using now probably came from China where they're using the new
lead-based glue-extender.
And there's hope:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071014193722.htm
I ran across a number of places where a particular glue was listed as
either non-toxic...or maybe not. This site
http://askville.amazon.com/wood-glue-diferent/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=3D7=
90353
gave the plastic resin glue (urea formaldehyde) a non-toxic in its
cured state rating. I think I'll take that and call it good and worry
about some other stuff that will kill me.
R
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I'd worry more about the bacteria and other goodies that grow in cutting
boards
> than in the glue used.. YMWV
As well, I've read that bacteria analysis in wooden cutting boards compared
to plastic type cutting boards, shows fewer bacteria. It's proposed that the
oils and such in wood inhibit the growth of bacteria more than the surfaces
of plastic products.
Of course, in any scenario it's prudent to clean cutting boards of any type
after use. There's nothing I hate worse than bit's of left over chili
peppers getting mixed into my chopped up strawberries.
On May 4, 7:00=A0pm, "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
> From the Titebond site regarding Titebond II
>
> "is FDA approved for indirect food contact (cutting boards)"
I know my knife skills are limited, but I can't quite figure out how
they expect you to get the food to hover above the cutting board while
you cut it. ;)
> Like many substances, once they cure, they are pretty safe.
Right. And it's not like you're eating a handful of sawdust with each
meal.
R
"Leon" wrote:
> That is not true. My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil
> on the butcher block and there has never been a problem with
> anything going rancid, at least in the last 30 years. While mineral
> oil and or a butcher block oil may be a better choice, vegetable oil
> has done just fine for us.
Let's see now, my slab of plastic doesn't need to be oiled, will go in
the dishwasher if desired, doesn't damage knife edge during use, can
be sterilized with household bleach.
That just about covers all my needs for a cutting board, but as a work
of art, it sucks.
Lew
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>>In article
> <ec17fa03-bd58-46fb-b3cc-0fccfcd49a30@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, Sasha
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
>>>into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
>>>make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
>>>important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
>>>it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
>>
>>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
>>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde glue,
>>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
>
>No, the first consideration for cutting board glues is whether or not
>it is safe to use in contact with food. I can find no cite that the
>glue above is FDA approved.
I guess you should have looked a little harder. The technical bulletin listed
at the manufacturer's web site specifically recommends it for use in cutting
boards.
http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00030201.pdf
>
>The glue most often reccomened is Titebond -II or -III.
Depends on who's doing the recommending...
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Actully if you take all of the precautions that you mentioned and build a
>>butcher block style cutting board, "with end grain pointing up" the likely
>>hood of the joints and or wood splitting increase dramatically. The end
>>grain will soak up enough liquids and oils that it will eventually swell
>>and
>>can crack.
>
> Indeed that's true -- which is one reason I don't build cutting boards
> that
> way. The other reason is I don't like the look.
Actually that other way, with end grain up is the better way, the cuts in
the wood are "self healing' so to speak, and knives stay sharper longer.
>
>> I have a mobile butcher block that I build almost 30 years ago
>>that split for the reason mentioned after about 6 years of use. Rods
>>added
>>through the center have prevented this from reoccouring.
>
> Yep, I can see that. More trouble than it's worth IMO -- easier, and
> (again,
> IMO) better looking to use strips, with the edge grain up.
Better lookiing until they get used a lot. Along with that 30 year old
butcher block that has never had to be resurfaced, we have an edge grain
maple cutting board that I made in Jr. High. I have had to resurface it
numerous times.
>>If your cutting board uses the side or edge of the wood for the cutting
>>surface glue is all that you should need.
>
> Agreed.
>>>
>>>>Finish with vegetable oil
>>>
>>> Wrong, wrong, wrong. Most vegetable oils will become rancid in fairly
>>> short
>>> order. Finish with mineral oil, or with walnut oil.
>>
>>That is not true. My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil on
>>the
>>butcher block and there has never been a problem with anything going
>>rancid,
>>at least in the last 30 years. While mineral oil and or a butcher block
>>oil
>>may be a better choice, vegetable oil has done just fine for us.
>
> OK, perhaps I should have said "may become rancid". Still better to use an
> oil
> that eventually dries; walnut, being a food product, is of course
> completely
> food-safe. Or leave it unfinished, and dress it with a card scraper every
> now
> and again.
I think the "vegetable oil" thing is much like the "Swine Flu", it gets much
more bad talk than it poses as an actual mass threat.
"notbob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2009-05-05, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Pharmaceutical grade, it is even used as a laxative. Perfectly safe.
>
> As a person who suffered surgery grade hemorroids at the age of 22, I'll
> debate "Perfectly safe" all day long. There are definite downsides to
> ingesting any "laxitive", but especially a ....again I say!....
> PETROLEUM-based one.
>
> I would be more than willing to talk about and give advice on a subject
> that
> was the bane of my life for almost ten years. I've not suffered 'em since
> and can speak with some authority on how and why they are no longer an
> issue. I would be more than happy to help anyone avoid suffering the same
> grief I did. Kinda blunt and crass, I know, but if you've been so
> plagued,
> screw politeness. Knowledge rocks!! I'll share. ;)
>
>
> nb ---> notbob at q dot com
I don't doubt you had problems, but you are one in a million or a billion or
a bazillion. The rest of us don't have the same reaction from trace amounts
that a cutting board may give.
"Sasha" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ec17fa03-bd58-46fb-b3cc-0fccfcd49a30@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
> into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
> make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
> important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
> it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
Good advice given but for best results don't let it stay wet, rinse it and
either immediately dry it off or stand it up on edge so the water will run
off.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil on the butcher block
> and there has never been a problem with anything going rancid, at least in
> the last 30 years. While mineral oil and or a butcher block oil may be a
> better choice, vegetable oil has done just fine for us.
>
>
>
Wesson oil for ours and the same for my mothers. I would bet that most of
the "going rancid" replies are from people that are just repeating what
others say rather than having any experience.
Sasha wrote:
> After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
> into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
> make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
> important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
> it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
Cutting board or chopping board (block)?
I have each. One cutting board of maple no more than 3/4" thick (maybe
less) about 12" x 18"; one of hickory that is bigger and about 1" thick; one
chopping board/block of hickory about 1 1/2" thick by 7" x 7". Chopping
boards are meant for whacking as well as slicing, cutting boards for
slicing.
All are glued up with type 2 yellow glue. All are finished with boiled
linseed oil.
The smaller maple board is made of three boards edge glued. One side has a
"blood groove" routed out near the perimeter with a 1/2" core box bit, other
side is smooth. It stays on a counter standing up where it is handy for
slicing bread, etc. It was made at least 16 years ago.
The hickory board is made from numerous 1" x 1" strips. It lives on a slide
under the counter top over the trash bag so trimmings can just be pushed off
into the trash. It can easily be lifted out and put on the counter. It was
made 8-9 years ago. Double sided just like the smaller maple one.
The hickory block has end grain as the cutting surface. It was made by
gluing up seven or eight 1" x1" strips of hickory, each 24" long. I made
three of those then cross cut them into 1 1/2" pieces and glued those pieces
together. Extra was used to turn four small feet so it stands maybe 1-2"
above the counter where it lives...handy for slicing an onion or tomato,
whacking or trimming a chop. It too was made 8-9 years ago; in fact, I made
15 of them as gifts. Mine is still in first rate shape, presume the others
are as well.
Someone mentioned using polyethelene...not a bad choice at all but the
consensus is that wood harbors the least bacteria. Its prettier too :)
The wood boards really don't need a finish but I use BLO anyway just to make
them pretty. Yes, it wears off. Food safe? Yes when dry. Type 2 glue
food safe? Don't know but I sure wouldn't worry about it being so...neither
the glue nor the BLO are going to be sucked into whatever you cut.
As far as splitting goes, if the wood is seasoned when you use it and the
glue surfaces are straight and smooth it isn't going to split. To clean,
rinse and dry. Use a bit of soap THEN rinse and dry if need be. No
dishwasher though.
dadiOH
Sasha wrote:
>..................................................
After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
> into trash I want to make my own.
>...................................................
Sounds like too many trips thru the dishwasher to me.
>........................................................
"Robatoy" wrote:
>......................................................
Is this a cutting board for 'work' or 'looks'?
If it is for work, a slab of polyethelene is the best choice. Won't
hurt your knives and is food safe.
Wooden boards need to be looked after with more care and make sure you
use food-safe adhesives and finishes. That also means NEVER to use
peanut oil to finish your board.
>............................................................
Not sure if it is polyethylene or polypropylene that is FDA approved,
but without a doubt, plastic is for dough and wood is for show, to
paraphrase the golf metaphor.
A 3M scrub pad, some soap and hot water is all that is needed to keep
things sterile.
I probably wash and scrub mine 5-6 times while doing the prep for a
meal.
Am paranoid about immediate cleaning board after cutting meats,
especially chicken.
You want to be anal about it, scrub board then pour some household
bleach over all surfaces and let air dry.
The "poly" slab I'm using now is at least 25 years old and can
probably last at least another 25.
If I want a board for show, wood it will be.
If I want a board for dough, poly is for me.
YMMV
Lew
In article <[email protected]>, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Actully if you take all of the precautions that you mentioned and build a
>butcher block style cutting board, "with end grain pointing up" the likely
>hood of the joints and or wood splitting increase dramatically. The end
>grain will soak up enough liquids and oils that it will eventually swell and
>can crack.
Indeed that's true -- which is one reason I don't build cutting boards that
way. The other reason is I don't like the look.
> I have a mobile butcher block that I build almost 30 years ago
>that split for the reason mentioned after about 6 years of use. Rods added
>through the center have prevented this from reoccouring.
Yep, I can see that. More trouble than it's worth IMO -- easier, and (again,
IMO) better looking to use strips, with the edge grain up.
>If your cutting board uses the side or edge of the wood for the cutting
>surface glue is all that you should need.
Agreed.
>
>
>
>>
>>>Finish with vegetable oil
>>
>> Wrong, wrong, wrong. Most vegetable oils will become rancid in fairly short
>> order. Finish with mineral oil, or with walnut oil.
>
>That is not true. My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil on the
>butcher block and there has never been a problem with anything going rancid,
>at least in the last 30 years. While mineral oil and or a butcher block oil
>may be a better choice, vegetable oil has done just fine for us.
OK, perhaps I should have said "may become rancid". Still better to use an oil
that eventually dries; walnut, being a food product, is of course completely
food-safe. Or leave it unfinished, and dress it with a card scraper every now
and again.
On Mon, 04 May 2009 11:25:25 -0400, dadiOH wrote:
> The wood boards really don't need a finish but I use BLO anyway just to
> make them pretty. Yes, it wears off. Food safe? Yes when dry.
Tried & True makes a polymerized linseed oil with no driers. Completely
non-toxic. A chemist I know says he wouldn't trust the "safe when dry"
finishes if they were to come in contact with acidic foods, such as
tomatoes. I don't know if he's right or not, but with non-toxic finishes
out there, why take the chance?
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
In article <[email protected]>, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Flaxseed oil makes you poop.
>
>Flaxseeds are really high in fibre. Of course it make you poop.
How much fiber is there in the oil? :-)
RicodJour wrote:
> On May 5, 10:51 am, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> IMHO, if "food safe" is that important, drill the suckers for
>> through bolts and just worry about rust..
>>
>> I'd worry more about the bacteria and other goodies that grow in
>> cutting boards than in the glue used.. YMWV
>
> Nice - way to rain on the "sky is falling" parade. It's killjoys like
> you that insert pragmatism and rational thinking into such threads
> that take all the fun out of scaring the poop out of people. ;)
>
> R
Not to worry, there will be more opportunities...many more :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
On May 5, 2:23=A0pm, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2009-05-05, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I don't doubt you had problems, but you are one in a million or a billi=
on or
> > a bazillion. =A0The rest of us don't have the same reaction from trace =
amounts
> > that a cutting board may give.
>
> If I was one in a bazillion, laxitives and hemorroid meds wouldn't be a
> billion dollar industry. =A0
>
> I'm not saying using mineral oil on a cutting board will automatically gi=
ve
> one 'roids', but ingesting it does your body no good and it's not as beni=
gn
> as you might believe. =A0I will agree the amounts one would ingest using =
it on
> a cutting board are negligible. =A0OTOH, I don't care what the oil compan=
ies
> would like us to believe, I will not knowingly ingest petroleum products,=
no
> matter how refined. =A0You, of course, are free to do as you like. =A0;)
I understand your concern for your health due to your experiences, but
please recognize that you are ingesting petroleum products, laboratory
chemicals and other food stuffs untouched by nature every single day.
It doesn't matter is the label says organic, free-range or anything
else.
Pretty much everything you eat is fertilized one way or another, and
fertilizer is made from ammonia, and ammonia is made from natural gas
and nitrogen (fixed by the Haber process). In other words, you are,
and are consuming, petroleum products each and every meal.
If you think that's weird, check out Haber's life. He was responsible
for one of the greatest boons to mankind and also for some of the most
horrific products ever made.
R
[email protected] wrote:
> Without metallic driers, the oil is simply "linseed oil" or "raw
> linseed oil". It takes weeks or months to simply dry a bit. But
> without driers, the raw stuff is actually edible. Outside of making
> bread, I am not sure what the linseed oil/flaxseed oil is actually
> good for in normal use.
I *think* (and without bothering to verify it) that artists oil paints
are still made the same way they were centuries ago, from raw linseed
oil. I used to paint with oils a lot when I was younger (some 30 years
ago) and I loved it. Interestingly, some colors would dry much faster
than others, I presume because of the effects the various pigments had
on the oil. You could also (still can, I presume) buy the linseed oil
itself to mix your own paint or make it flow better. It was my
understanding that it was not at all toxic and I can still remember the
wonderful smell, but I can't remember if I actually ever tasted it. :-)
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Unless you live the Amish life, you are eating mineral oil everyday.
It is sprayed on rice to stop dust, gel caps for pills are made from
it, hundreds of foods use it in their coatings. And it is available in
the pharmacy to be used as a stool softner taken straight.
It is one of the many amazing refined items we get from oil. It is
closest in structure to wax and in the industry is actually called
parifin oil in the trades.
On May 4, 8:05=A0pm, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2009-05-05, Martin H. Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Best to finish in Mineral oil. =A0
>
> I disagree. =A0I know more about cooking than woodworking. =A0Yes,
> traditionally, butcher blocks are treated with Mineral oil. =A0Do you wan=
t to
> use a "petroleum" product around your food? =A0I don't.
>
> I never used any oil on my 10"X10" cutting board for 12 yrs! =A0Yes, it
> finally split and I discarded it. =A0Hey!! =A0That's 12 yrs. =A0I think I=
can
> afford it. =A0You wanna invest in a 3'x3'x3' butcher block, ok. =A0Use so=
me
> mineral oil, if you want. =A0I'm not putting Shell oil in my bod. =A0Jes =
my
> opinion. =A0;)
>
> nb
Grand father-in-law - was a butcher in his later life. He always cleaned
his block table Ammonia. He also poured it on his cuts and had several
finger tips slightly askew - being affixed again with Ammonia killing germs.
Martin
RicodJour wrote:
> On May 4, 9:21 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Wooden boards need to be looked after with more care and make sure you
>> use food-safe adhesives and finishes. That also means NEVER to use
>> peanut oil to finish your board.
>
> There was an interesting segment on (I think) America's Test Kitchen
> about wood vs. plastic cutting boards. They took swab samples from
> both types of cutting boards and put them into Petri culture dishes
> and watched what grew. They took samples from boards that were washed
> different ways, brand new boards, and boards that were cleaned and
> stored for a few days. All of the boards showed that there was
> bacteria living on the boards - including the brand new ones.
>
> The interesting part was that the wood boards that were cleaned and
> put away for a while had their bacteria populations actually
> decrease. Something in the wood was fighting the bacteria, and
> they're not sure what it is.
>
> The plastic boards are almost self-healing and that's a two-edged
> sword. It keeps the surface essentially intact for longer, but the
> cuts close up around whatever you were cutting and the closed semi-
> healed cuts protect the bacteria from the washing.
>
> Wood boards do need to be handled a bit more carefully, but I think
> it's a very worthwhile trade off.
>
> R
From the Titebond site regarding Titebond II
"is FDA approved for indirect food contact (cutting boards)"
http://www.titebond.com/IntroPageTB.ASP?UserType=3D1&ProdSel=3DProductLineT=
B.asp?prodline=3D2?prodcat=3D1
Like many substances, once they cure, they are pretty safe.
On May 4, 3:44=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 4, 11:18=A0am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]=
m (Derek Lyons) wrote:
> > >[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
> > >>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
> > >>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde =
glue,
> > >>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMH=
O.
>
> > >No, the first consideration for cutting board glues is whether or not
> > >it is safe to use in contact with food. =A0I can find no cite that the
> > >glue above is FDA approved.
>
> > I guess you should have looked a little harder. The technical bulletin =
listed
> > at the manufacturer's web site specifically recommends it for use in cu=
tting
> > boards.
>
> >http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00030201.pdf
>
> > >The glue most often reccomened is Titebond -II or -III.
>
> > Depends on who's doing the recommending...
>
> As the guy who would be building the board, and my family and friends
> the one eating off of it, I'd be less than thrilled to read these
> words in the DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue MSDS:
>
> EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE - INGESTION: =A0May cause stomach and intestinal
> irritation, vomiting, diarrhea, sweating, weakness, and headache.
> Ingestion of over 1 gram/day of barium chloride (25 grams/day of
> product) may raise blood pressure and affect heart action.
>
> The amount is someone would ingest from a cutting board would be
> minimal, but still, let's look for a safer alternative.
>
> Gorilla Glue:
> Ingestion Product is not intended to be ingested or eaten.If this
> product is ingested,severe irritation of the gastrointestinal tract
> may occur,and should be treated symptomatically. Do not induce the
> patient or animal to vomit.Call a doctor,ambulance or seek
> veterinarian assistance immediately.
>
> The word severe scares me. =A0Keep looking.
>
> Titebond II:
> INGESTION: No hazard expected in normal industrial use. =A0Ingestion is
> not a likely route of exposure.
>
> Hmmm. =A0I guess Titebond is weaseling around on this one. =A0I cook meal=
s
> for small groups and the use of the product in a cutting board does
> make the exposure route much more likely. =A0Keep looking.
>
> Maybe the new and improved Titebond III?
> Nope. =A0The most weaselly MSDS of them all. =A0It states that ingestion
> is a route of entry, and that you should contact a poison control
> center immediately, but it has no information about the effects. =A0It's
> also interesting to see that they put NO to skin contact as a route of
> entry, but it says it can cause skin irritation. =A0From their promo
> literature we have this gem: "FDA approved for indirect food contact"
> What does that mean
>
> Franklin's Hide Glue:
> INGESTION: Single dose oral toxicity is considered to be extremely
> low. =A0No hazards expected from swallowing small amounts incidental to
> normal handling operations. =A0Ingestion may cause gastrointestinal
> irritation.
>
> If this is starting to make you nervous, take heart, the cutting board
> you are using now probably came from China where they're using the new
> lead-based glue-extender.
>
> And there's hope:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/07101419372=
2.htm
>
> I ran across a number of places where a particular glue was listed as
> either non-toxic...or maybe not. =A0This sitehttp://askville.amazon.com/w=
ood-glue-diferent/AnswerViewer.do?request...
> gave the plastic resin glue (urea formaldehyde) a non-toxic in its
> cured state rating. =A0I think I'll take that and call it good and worry
> about some other stuff that will kill me.
>
> R- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
On May 4, 10:27=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Rick Samuel" wrote:
> > One question not asked, why do your boards fail?
>
> What do you want to bet there is a dishwasher involved?
>
> Lew
And even then it is the heat of the diswasher, not the water that
degrades the glue.
On May 5, 9:01=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> > I was\am in the business of selling cutting boards (not so much
> > anymore) and I did my research and the rancid indication comes from
> > scientific sources (no I don't have the cites right now) but
> > basicially you are introducing a food for bacteria in the food based
> > oils. At the micro level you can get some growth which is
> > characterized as rancidity (word?).
>
> Rancidification is a chemical reaction with no bacteria involved.
Thanks for the putrefaction. :)
R
Interesting
On May 5, 6:01=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> > I was\am in the business of selling cutting boards (not so much
> > anymore) and I did my research and the rancid indication comes from
> > scientific sources (no I don't have the cites right now) but
> > basicially you are introducing a food for bacteria in the food based
> > oils. At the micro level you can get some growth which is
> > characterized as rancidity (word?).
>
> Rancidification is a chemical reaction with no bacteria involved.
>
>
>
> > On May 5, 10:49 am, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >>news:[email protected]...
>
> >>> My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil on the butcher
> >>> block and there has never been a problem with anything going
> >>> rancid, at least in the last 30 years. While mineral oil and or a
> >>> butcher block oil may be a better choice, vegetable oil has done
> >>> just fine for us.
>
> >> Wesson oil for ours and the same for my mothers. I would bet that
> >> most of the "going rancid" replies are from people that are just
> >> repeating what others say rather than having any experience.- Hide quo=
ted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
In article <671d7dab-7148-42cd-a158-6d4e2f84e39a@s20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>On May 4, 11:18=A0am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] =
>(Derek Lyons) wrote:
>> >[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>
>> >>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
>> >>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde gl=
>ue,
>> >>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
>>
>> >No, the first consideration for cutting board glues is whether or not
>> >it is safe to use in contact with food. =A0I can find no cite that the
>> >glue above is FDA approved.
>>
>> I guess you should have looked a little harder. The technical bulletin li=
>sted
>> at the manufacturer's web site specifically recommends it for use in cutt=
>ing
>> boards.
>>
>> http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00030201.pdf
>>
>> >The glue most often reccomened is Titebond -II or -III.
>>
>> Depends on who's doing the recommending...
>
>As the guy who would be building the board, and my family and friends
>the one eating off of it, I'd be less than thrilled to read these
>words in the DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue MSDS:
>
>EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE - INGESTION: May cause stomach and intestinal
>irritation, vomiting, diarrhea, sweating, weakness, and headache.
>Ingestion of over 1 gram/day of barium chloride (25 grams/day of
>product) may raise blood pressure and affect heart action.
That's referring to the *unmixed* *uncured* glue. Once mixed and cured, the
stuff is insoluble in water.
[snip]
> This site
>http://askville.amazon.com/wood-glue-diferent/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=3D7=
>90353
>gave the plastic resin glue (urea formaldehyde) a non-toxic in its
>cured state rating. I think I'll take that and call it good and worry
>about some other stuff that will kill me.
Like I said...
The best science I have heard says the sharp edges of the wood fibers
rupture the cell walls of the bacteria as a natural defense mechanism.
Just like placing wood ash on the ground where slugs\snails crawl and
it shreds the little bastards.
On May 5, 11:06=A0am, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > I'd worry more about the bacteria and other goodies that grow in cuttin=
g
> boards
> > than in the glue used.. YMWV
>
> As well, I've read that bacteria analysis in wooden cutting boards compar=
ed
> to plastic type cutting boards, shows fewer bacteria. It's proposed that =
the
> oils and such in wood inhibit the growth of bacteria more than the surfac=
es
> of plastic products.
>
> Of course, in any scenario it's prudent to clean cutting boards of any ty=
pe
> after use. There's nothing I hate worse than bit's of left over chili
> peppers getting mixed into my chopped up strawberries.
You forgot one thing "IT'S PLASTIC!".
On May 5, 9:49=A0am, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
> > That is not true. =A0My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil
> > on the butcher block and there has never been a problem with
> > anything going rancid, at least in the last 30 years. =A0While mineral
> > oil and or a butcher block oil may be a better choice, vegetable oil
> > has done just fine for us.
>
> Let's see now, my slab of plastic doesn't need to be oiled, will go in
> the dishwasher if desired, doesn't damage knife edge during use, can
> be sterilized with household bleach.
>
> That just about covers all my needs for a cutting board, but as a work
> of art, it sucks.
>
> Lew
On May 6, 7:09=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On May 6, 5:08=A0pm, Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > You could also (still can, I presume) buy the linseed oil
> > itself to mix your own paint or make it flow better. =A0
>
> You can still buy it just about anywhere. =A0Just DAGS "raw linseed oil"
> and you will get plenty of sources.
>
> > It was my
> > understanding that it was not at all toxic and I can still remember the
> > wonderful smell, but I can't remember if I actually ever tasted it. =A0=
:-)
>
> Flaxseed oil is the same thing, just refined differently. =A0Like you, I
> love the way it smells, and I remember going into old cabinets maker's
> (not necessarily pros) shops that had that smell in the air.
>
> That smell just seems to take you back a few years....
>
> Robert
Flaxseed oil makes you poop.
On Tue, 05 May 2009 11:11:30 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>On Mon, 04 May 2009 13:14:34 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>>wrote:
>
>>>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
>>>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde glue,
>>>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
>
>> Use "quater sawn" maple. Drill through the full width of the board
>>and insert staimless steel "tension members, nutted tightly with the
>>ends of the holes filled with dowels.
>
>Phooey. If the wood is properly dried, properly jointed, and properly glued,
>there's absolutely no need for "stainless steel tension members".
>
>>You could also use some T88
>>epoxy or equivalent on the joints between the bords if you want "belt
>>and suspenders"
>
>*Any* waterproof glue comes under the category of "properly glued".
>
>>Finish with vegetable oil
>
>Wrong, wrong, wrong. Most vegetable oils will become rancid in fairly short
>order. Finish with mineral oil, or with walnut oil.
Walnut oil is considered a vegetable(as opposed to mineral) oil.
So is Almond oil, and coconut oil - both recommended for "seasoning"
cutting boards.
"Salad Bowl Oil" is a combination of "vegatable oils" as well - cold
pressed flax (linseed) oil and organic lemon oil with a non-toxic
drier (usually Zircon Octoate) (BioShield)
General Finishes Salad Bowl oil is petroleum distilate (mineral
spirits) and oil modified Urethane.
On May 4, 11:35 am, "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
> If you use Boiled Linseed Oil as suggested or
> any other oil BE SURE it is pure and does not have any "Dries" in it.
> These are heavy metal and very toxic.
Just to expand on Sonoma's post....
DO NOT use Boiled Linseed Oil on any food surface. Ever. BLO is
dries out quickly due to the introduction of the aforementioned
chemical driers which are indeed quite poisonous.
However, UNlike most of today's resin finishes which are toxic when
wet or uncured, then food safe when cured, the poison component does
not go away when the resins cure. Think of the old oil based paints
with lead in them. The paint can be dry for decades and the inert
metals in the finish are as deadly as they day they were manufactured.
There is no such thing as "PURE" BLO. It doesn't exist.
The misnomer of "boiled linseed oil" is a myth itself. IIRC, the
"boiling process" is the introduction of metal salts in the mixing
vat.
"Boiled" Linseed Oil is manufactured by taking linseed oil and adding
metallic driers to the oil itself, in the same fashion we used to add
Japan Drier (again, nothing to do with Japan) to oil based (sometimes
linseed/tung oil) paints.
Without metallic driers, the oil is simply "linseed oil" or "raw
linseed oil". It takes weeks or months to simply dry a bit. But
without driers, the raw stuff is actually edible. Outside of making
bread, I am not sure what the linseed oil/flaxseed oil is actually
good for in normal use.
"Boiled linseed oil" came about as a quick fix for someone that wanted
an oil finish without the time or trouble involved.
Here's something from Russ Fairfield. Not a professional, but
knowledgeable:
http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish6.shtml
Robert
General consensus is to use a tight grain wood that will not promote
collection of food particles and oil in the ports. This would mean
that Oak and similar woods are out. Maple, cherry and similar woods
are in. Use a good water resistant glue. Also, if you are gluing up
slabs, jig up your drill press to allow a couple of dowels to be
driven through matching holes near each end (and center with larger
boards). I helped our son make a cutting board using dowel
reinforcement 15 to 18 years ago and it is still going strong. There
are lots of cutting board finishes available, but a couple of coats of
mineral oil every 6 months or so renews the look and provides a good
food-friendly finish. I have even given older boards a light pass
through the surface planer to clean up cuts and gougers.
The board the son and I made was laminated from several hardwoods
including Walnut, Cherry, and evil woods like Oak and Ash. Mom's
been using it for years and we are still alive; but thorough cleaning
and sealing are good.
RonB
On May 4, 9:21=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Wooden boards need to be looked after with more care and make sure you
> use food-safe adhesives and finishes. That also means NEVER to use
> peanut oil to finish your board.
There was an interesting segment on (I think) America's Test Kitchen
about wood vs. plastic cutting boards. They took swab samples from
both types of cutting boards and put them into Petri culture dishes
and watched what grew. They took samples from boards that were washed
different ways, brand new boards, and boards that were cleaned and
stored for a few days. All of the boards showed that there was
bacteria living on the boards - including the brand new ones.
The interesting part was that the wood boards that were cleaned and
put away for a while had their bacteria populations actually
decrease. Something in the wood was fighting the bacteria, and
they're not sure what it is.
The plastic boards are almost self-healing and that's a two-edged
sword. It keeps the surface essentially intact for longer, but the
cuts close up around whatever you were cutting and the closed semi-
healed cuts protect the bacteria from the washing.
Wood boards do need to be handled a bit more carefully, but I think
it's a very worthwhile trade off.
R
"Sasha" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ec17fa03-bd58-46fb-b3cc-0fccfcd49a30@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
> into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
> make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
> important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
> it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
One question not asked, why do your boards fail? SWMBO boards are 30 yo or
better.
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> I was\am in the business of selling cutting boards (not so much
> anymore) and I did my research and the rancid indication comes from
> scientific sources (no I don't have the cites right now) but
> basicially you are introducing a food for bacteria in the food based
> oils. At the micro level you can get some growth which is
> characterized as rancidity (word?).
Rancidification is a chemical reaction with no bacteria involved.
> On May 5, 10:49 am, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil on the butcher
>>> block and there has never been a problem with anything going
>>> rancid, at least in the last 30 years. While mineral oil and or a
>>> butcher block oil may be a better choice, vegetable oil has done
>>> just fine for us.
>>
>> Wesson oil for ours and the same for my mothers. I would bet that
>> most of the "going rancid" replies are from people that are just
>> repeating what others say rather than having any experience.
Leon wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:ef4e9509-d00d-4c3d-9036-d30e29274d5a@l28g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> On May 6, 7:09 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Flaxseed oil makes you poop.
>
>
> So does my morning cup of coffee! ;~)
>
Nothing makes a better push-rod than that first cup of java.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
"notbob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2009-05-05, Martin H. Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Best to finish in Mineral oil.
>
> I disagree. I know more about cooking than woodworking. Yes,
> traditionally, butcher blocks are treated with Mineral oil. Do you want
> to
> use a "petroleum" product around your food? I don't.
>
> I never used any oil on my 10"X10" cutting board for 12 yrs! Yes, it
> finally split and I discarded it. Hey!! That's 12 yrs. I think I can
> afford it. You wanna invest in a 3'x3'x3' butcher block, ok. Use some
> mineral oil, if you want. I'm not putting Shell oil in my bod. Jes my
> opinion. ;)
>
> nb
Pharmaceutical grade, it is even used as a laxative. Perfectly safe.
On Tue, 5 May 2009 10:49:42 -0700, "CW" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil on the butcher block
>> and there has never been a problem with anything going rancid, at least in
>> the last 30 years. While mineral oil and or a butcher block oil may be a
>> better choice, vegetable oil has done just fine for us.
>>
>>
>>
>Wesson oil for ours and the same for my mothers. I would bet that most of
>the "going rancid" replies are from people that are just repeating what
>others say rather than having any experience.
>
The Big thing is vegetable oils that are heart healthy are more likely
to go rancid than the "bad" oils. Poly-unsaturated oils go rancid
rather quichly, while more saturated vegetable oils stay "sweet" a
WHOLE lot longer.
Virtually ANY vegetable oil lasts longer than amimal oils.
On Tue, 05 May 2009 16:49:36 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Let's see now, my slab of plastic doesn't need to be oiled, will go in
>the dishwasher if desired, doesn't damage knife edge during use, can
>be sterilized with household bleach.
>
>That just about covers all my needs for a cutting board, but as a work
>of art, it sucks.
>
>Lew
>
"It looks like frozen snot."
L.F. Herreshoff
Regards,
Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>>On Mon, 04 May 2009 13:14:34 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>>wrote:
>
>>>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
>>>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde
>>>glue,
>>>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
>
>> Use "quater sawn" maple. Drill through the full width of the board
>>and insert staimless steel "tension members, nutted tightly with the
>>ends of the holes filled with dowels.
>
> Phooey. If the wood is properly dried, properly jointed, and properly
> glued,
> there's absolutely no need for "stainless steel tension members".
Actully if you take all of the precautions that you mentioned and build a
butcher block style cutting board, "with end grain pointing up" the likely
hood of the joints and or wood splitting increase dramatically. The end
grain will soak up enough liquids and oils that it will eventually swell and
can crack. I have a mobile butcher block that I build almost 30 years ago
that split for the reason mentioned after about 6 years of use. Rods added
through the center have prevented this from reoccouring.
If your cutting board uses the side or edge of the wood for the cutting
surface glue is all that you should need.
>
>>Finish with vegetable oil
>
> Wrong, wrong, wrong. Most vegetable oils will become rancid in fairly
> short
> order. Finish with mineral oil, or with walnut oil.
That is not true. My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil on the
butcher block and there has never been a problem with anything going rancid,
at least in the last 30 years. While mineral oil and or a butcher block oil
may be a better choice, vegetable oil has done just fine for us.
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>Wrong, wrong, wrong. Most vegetable oils will become rancid in fairly short
>order. Finish with mineral oil, or with walnut oil.
Or pure tung oil. -- Doug
On 2009-05-05, Martin H. Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
> Best to finish in Mineral oil.
I disagree. I know more about cooking than woodworking. Yes,
traditionally, butcher blocks are treated with Mineral oil. Do you want to
use a "petroleum" product around your food? I don't.
I never used any oil on my 10"X10" cutting board for 12 yrs! Yes, it
finally split and I discarded it. Hey!! That's 12 yrs. I think I can
afford it. You wanna invest in a 3'x3'x3' butcher block, ok. Use some
mineral oil, if you want. I'm not putting Shell oil in my bod. Jes my
opinion. ;)
nb
On 2009-05-05, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> Pharmaceutical grade, it is even used as a laxative. Perfectly safe.
As a person who suffered surgery grade hemorroids at the age of 22, I'll
debate "Perfectly safe" all day long. There are definite downsides to
ingesting any "laxitive", but especially a ....again I say!....
PETROLEUM-based one.
I would be more than willing to talk about and give advice on a subject that
was the bane of my life for almost ten years. I've not suffered 'em since
and can speak with some authority on how and why they are no longer an
issue. I would be more than happy to help anyone avoid suffering the same
grief I did. Kinda blunt and crass, I know, but if you've been so plagued,
screw politeness. Knowledge rocks!! I'll share. ;)
nb ---> notbob at q dot com
On 2009-05-05, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't doubt you had problems, but you are one in a million or a billion or
> a bazillion. The rest of us don't have the same reaction from trace amounts
> that a cutting board may give.
If I was one in a bazillion, laxitives and hemorroid meds wouldn't be a
billion dollar industry.
I'm not saying using mineral oil on a cutting board will automatically give
one 'roids', but ingesting it does your body no good and it's not as benign
as you might believe. I will agree the amounts one would ingest using it on
a cutting board are negligible. OTOH, I don't care what the oil companies
would like us to believe, I will not knowingly ingest petroleum products, no
matter how refined. You, of course, are free to do as you like. ;)
nb
On May 7, 1:42=A0pm, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Nothing makes a better push-rod than that first cup of java.
> Uh, I think you're doing it wrong.
You have to admit though, it would make a good Youtube video....
;^)
Just make sure to wash the cup before re-using.
Robert
On Mon, 4 May 2009 16:00:10 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]>
wrote:
IMHO, if "food safe" is that important, drill the suckers for through bolts and
just worry about rust..
I'd worry more about the bacteria and other goodies that grow in cutting boards
than in the glue used.. YMWV
>From the Titebond site regarding Titebond II
>
>"is FDA approved for indirect food contact (cutting boards)"
>
>http://www.titebond.com/IntroPageTB.ASP?UserType=1&ProdSel=ProductLineTB.asp?prodline=2?prodcat=1
>
>Like many substances, once they cure, they are pretty safe.
>
>
>On May 4, 3:44 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On May 4, 11:18 am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>> > >[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>
>> > >>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
>> > >>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde glue,
>> > >>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
>>
>> > >No, the first consideration for cutting board glues is whether or not
>> > >it is safe to use in contact with food. I can find no cite that the
>> > >glue above is FDA approved.
>>
>> > I guess you should have looked a little harder. The technical bulletin listed
>> > at the manufacturer's web site specifically recommends it for use in cutting
>> > boards.
>>
>> >http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00030201.pdf
>>
>> > >The glue most often reccomened is Titebond -II or -III.
>>
>> > Depends on who's doing the recommending...
>>
>> As the guy who would be building the board, and my family and friends
>> the one eating off of it, I'd be less than thrilled to read these
>> words in the DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue MSDS:
>>
>> EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE - INGESTION: May cause stomach and intestinal
>> irritation, vomiting, diarrhea, sweating, weakness, and headache.
>> Ingestion of over 1 gram/day of barium chloride (25 grams/day of
>> product) may raise blood pressure and affect heart action.
>>
>> The amount is someone would ingest from a cutting board would be
>> minimal, but still, let's look for a safer alternative.
>>
>> Gorilla Glue:
>> Ingestion Product is not intended to be ingested or eaten.If this
>> product is ingested,severe irritation of the gastrointestinal tract
>> may occur,and should be treated symptomatically. Do not induce the
>> patient or animal to vomit.Call a doctor,ambulance or seek
>> veterinarian assistance immediately.
>>
>> The word severe scares me. Keep looking.
>>
>> Titebond II:
>> INGESTION: No hazard expected in normal industrial use. Ingestion is
>> not a likely route of exposure.
>>
>> Hmmm. I guess Titebond is weaseling around on this one. I cook meals
>> for small groups and the use of the product in a cutting board does
>> make the exposure route much more likely. Keep looking.
>>
>> Maybe the new and improved Titebond III?
>> Nope. The most weaselly MSDS of them all. It states that ingestion
>> is a route of entry, and that you should contact a poison control
>> center immediately, but it has no information about the effects. It's
>> also interesting to see that they put NO to skin contact as a route of
>> entry, but it says it can cause skin irritation. From their promo
>> literature we have this gem: "FDA approved for indirect food contact"
>> What does that mean
>>
>> Franklin's Hide Glue:
>> INGESTION: Single dose oral toxicity is considered to be extremely
>> low. No hazards expected from swallowing small amounts incidental to
>> normal handling operations. Ingestion may cause gastrointestinal
>> irritation.
>>
>> If this is starting to make you nervous, take heart, the cutting board
>> you are using now probably came from China where they're using the new
>> lead-based glue-extender.
>>
>> And there's hope:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071014193722.htm
>>
>> I ran across a number of places where a particular glue was listed as
>> either non-toxic...or maybe not. This sitehttp://askville.amazon.com/wood-glue-diferent/AnswerViewer.do?request...
>> gave the plastic resin glue (urea formaldehyde) a non-toxic in its
>> cured state rating. I think I'll take that and call it good and worry
>> about some other stuff that will kill me.
>>
>> R- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Mon, 4 May 2009 06:02:59 -0700 (PDT), Sasha <[email protected]>
wrote:
>After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
>into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
>make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
>important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
>it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
Are these cutting boards washed by hand, soaked or put into the
dishwasher? I suspect it is the care of the board that is making it
split. My cutting boards have been used over 25 years and have not
split yet. I wash them by hand, rinse and try to keep them dry. I
use one for meat, another for vegetables.
In article <ec17fa03-bd58-46fb-b3cc-0fccfcd49a30@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, Sasha <[email protected]> wrote:
>After having a doizen or so comercial cutting boards split and thrown
>into trash I want to make my own. Can someone give me guidance how to
>make it so it won't split, how to finish it, if it at all, etc. Most
>important for me is it shoiuld be very durable as I don't want to make
>it every month. I plan using maple to make it.
Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde glue,
such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> That is not true. My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil
>> on the butcher block and there has never been a problem with
>> anything going rancid, at least in the last 30 years. While mineral
>> oil and or a butcher block oil may be a better choice, vegetable oil
>> has done just fine for us.
>
> Let's see now, my slab of plastic doesn't need to be oiled, will go in
> the dishwasher if desired, doesn't damage knife edge during use, can
> be sterilized with household bleach.
>
> That just about covers all my needs for a cutting board, but as a work
> of art, it sucks.
Maybe the manufacturers will take a hint and make them wood grained. Or get
a black one and say it's ebony :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> My wife has never used anything but vegetable oil on the butcher block
>> and there has never been a problem with anything going rancid, at least
>> in the last 30 years. While mineral oil and or a butcher block oil may
>> be a better choice, vegetable oil has done just fine for us.
>>
>>
>>
> Wesson oil for ours and the same for my mothers. I would bet that most of
> the "going rancid" replies are from people that are just repeating what
> others say rather than having any experience.
I believe you are probably right. I suspect the one that did go rancid
probably had other bacteria problems in the mix.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>On Mon, 04 May 2009 13:14:34 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>>Make sure the wood is thoroughly dry, straight, and flat. Then use a
>>waterproof glue -- not merely water *resistant*. A urea-formaldehyde glue,
>>such as DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, would be the best choice IMHO.
> Use "quater sawn" maple. Drill through the full width of the board
>and insert staimless steel "tension members, nutted tightly with the
>ends of the holes filled with dowels.
Phooey. If the wood is properly dried, properly jointed, and properly glued,
there's absolutely no need for "stainless steel tension members".
>You could also use some T88
>epoxy or equivalent on the joints between the bords if you want "belt
>and suspenders"
*Any* waterproof glue comes under the category of "properly glued".
>Finish with vegetable oil
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Most vegetable oils will become rancid in fairly short
order. Finish with mineral oil, or with walnut oil.