(a slight followup first for those of you who were reading my subpanel
thread a few days ago)
I decided not to use the 100amp box. I found a proper 12 postion
subpanel at the borg. I've already started the install. I'm using
3/4" emt with #6 wire, 60 amp breaker in the main box, a 75' run, all
indoors.
Originally, I was going to run four wires through the 3/4" pipe (red,
white, black, and green). The electrical guy at home depot said that
if you're using emt, you don't need the separate ground wire since the
boxes are grounded together through the emt. Does this sound right?
So far, I've run the other three. It's a bit of a long run so I'd
rather not do the fourth wire.
brian
>If you're using THHN or THWN conductors, that's ok. If TW, THW, RHW, or RHH,
>you have a code violation already. They're probably THHN, but you oughta check
>just to make sure. It's stamped on the insulation.
I believe it's THHN. He had a code book there and looked up the types,
gauge, and conduit sizes on the spot.
>The NEC _explicitly_permits_ the use of EMT as an equipment grounding
>conductor. [Article 250-91(b)]
Thanks, this is what I was looking for.
brian
It was tough. I finished it last night. I used 90 degree fittings
also which made it that much worse. Half way through the project, I
started threading sections of emt as I assembled them. That made the
job a lot easier. I didn't look at the price for 1" conduit. I know
the 1 1/4" conduit I would have used for the #3 100amp wire was $15 for
an 8' segment. That was three times more than the $5 for the 3/4". So
I went with the 60 amp parts. If I had to do it again, I would buy the
pipe bender. That tool would probably have been cheaper than the cost
of all the fittings and it would have made pulling the wire easier.
brian
LRod wrote:
> On 6 Jun 2005 13:49:20 -0700, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> There is one other thing to consider and that is three 6s in 3/4"
> conduit, even thought permitted, can be a tough pull (especially over
> 75'. Can it hurt you to put in 1" instead? You'll probably have to use
> preformed elbows.
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:15:58 GMT, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>It was tough. I finished it last night. I used 90 degree fittings
>>also which made it that much worse. Half way through the project, I
>>started threading sections of emt as I assembled them.
>
> Threading EMT is _explicitly_forbidden_ by the NEC.
I didn't know you _could_ thread EMT, even if not forbidden from doing
so?
(side note: just how many groups do we cross paths in, Doug?)
In article <[email protected]>, "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote:
>(a slight followup first for those of you who were reading my subpanel
>thread a few days ago)
>
>I decided not to use the 100amp box. I found a proper 12 postion
>subpanel at the borg. I've already started the install. I'm using
>3/4" emt with #6 wire, 60 amp breaker in the main box, a 75' run, all
>indoors.
If you're using THHN or THWN conductors, that's ok. If TW, THW, RHW, or RHH,
you have a code violation already. They're probably THHN, but you oughta check
just to make sure. It's stamped on the insulation.
>
>Originally, I was going to run four wires through the 3/4" pipe (red,
>white, black, and green). The electrical guy at home depot said that
>if you're using emt, you don't need the separate ground wire since the
>boxes are grounded together through the emt. Does this sound right?
The NEC _explicitly_permits_ the use of EMT as an equipment grounding
conductor. [Article 250-91(b)]
>So far, I've run the other three. It's a bit of a long run so I'd
>rather not do the fourth wire.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Emt is OK as a ground, I recommend using grouning bushings where
applicable to be sure you get a good ground at the panel. Someone
recommended pulling a ground which is a good idea. Its pretty common
on commercial industrial jobs for the engineers to spec a ground to be
pulled in all emt runs. Over times fittings can come loose.
MikeM
On 6 Jun 2005 09:03:43 -0700, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>(a slight followup first for those of you who were reading my subpanel
>thread a few days ago)
>
>I decided not to use the 100amp box. I found a proper 12 postion
>subpanel at the borg. I've already started the install. I'm using
>3/4" emt with #6 wire, 60 amp breaker in the main box, a 75' run, all
>indoors.
>
>Originally, I was going to run four wires through the 3/4" pipe (red,
>white, black, and green). The electrical guy at home depot said that
>if you're using emt, you don't need the separate ground wire since the
>boxes are grounded together through the emt. Does this sound right?
>So far, I've run the other three. It's a bit of a long run so I'd
>rather not do the fourth wire.
>
>brian
In article <[email protected]>, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:15:58 GMT, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
> "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>It was tough. I finished it last night. I used 90 degree fittings
>>>also which made it that much worse. Half way through the project, I
>>>started threading sections of emt as I assembled them.
>>
>> Threading EMT is _explicitly_forbidden_ by the NEC.
>
>I didn't know you _could_ thread EMT, even if not forbidden from doing
>so?
I didn't either, actually.... not sure why anyone would try, since the walls
are so thin. But it's there in the Code.
>
>(side note: just how many groups do we cross paths in, Doug?)
At least two besides this one, I think. :-)
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> writes:
>brianlanning wrote:
>
>> The electrical guy at home depot said that
>> if you're using emt, you don't need the separate ground wire since the
>> boxes are grounded together through the emt. Does this sound right?
>
>
>Nice try but no cigar.
>
>Not in my world anyway.
And what world is that? See the NEC. EMT is explicitly
allowed as the grounding conductor. BX and armoured cable
are explicitly disallowed (as of 1999?).
If I were doing it, using the EMT as the grounding
means, I'd use compression fittings rather than setscrew.
scott
>
>Lew
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> (a slight followup first for those of you who were reading my subpanel
> thread a few days ago)
>
> I decided not to use the 100amp box. I found a proper 12 postion
> subpanel at the borg. I've already started the install. I'm using
> 3/4" emt with #6 wire, 60 amp breaker in the main box, a 75' run, all
> indoors.
>
> Originally, I was going to run four wires through the 3/4" pipe (red,
> white, black, and green). The electrical guy at home depot said that
> if you're using emt, you don't need the separate ground wire since the
> boxes are grounded together through the emt. Does this sound right?
No, but it does sound like you should let someone who knows what he is doing
(such as an electrician) do the job.
Jim
[email protected] (Doug Miller) writes:
>In article <[email protected]>, "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>It was tough. I finished it last night. I used 90 degree fittings
>>also which made it that much worse. Half way through the project, I
>>started threading sections of emt as I assembled them.
>
>Threading EMT is _explicitly_forbidden_ by the NEC.
I suspect he meant that he was pulling the wire through
the sections as they were assembled. There isn't enough steel
in EMT to thread....
scott
>
>
>--
>Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
>Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
>And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
On 6 Jun 2005 09:03:43 -0700, brianlanning wrote:
> (a slight followup first for those of you who were reading my subpanel
> thread a few days ago)
>
> I decided not to use the 100amp box. I found a proper 12 postion
> subpanel at the borg. I've already started the install. I'm using
> 3/4" emt with #6 wire, 60 amp breaker in the main box, a 75' run, all
> indoors.
Are you certain you won't exceed the fill limit (or need to derate the
conductors) on the conduit with three current-carrying #6 conductors?
> Originally, I was going to run four wires through the 3/4" pipe (red,
> white, black, and green). The electrical guy at home depot said that
> if you're using emt, you don't need the separate ground wire since the
> boxes are grounded together through the emt. Does this sound right?
> So far, I've run the other three. It's a bit of a long run so I'd
> rather not do the fourth wire.
Check the NEC. I think you need the ground wire. And bonding at both ends of
the conduit.
--
Art Greenberg
artg AT eclipse DOT net
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:35:47 GMT, Art Greenberg <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:15:58 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >It was tough. I finished it last night. I used 90 degree fittings
>> >also which made it that much worse. Half way through the project, I
>> >started threading sections of emt as I assembled them.
>>
>> Threading EMT is _explicitly_forbidden_ by the NEC.
>
>I *think* he meant as in "threading a needle". Rather than pull the wires
>through a fully assembled conduit run, he's pushing the conduit sections onto
>the cable, one at a time.
>
>At least, that's what I think he meant.
I took it that way, too.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Are you certain you won't exceed the fill limit (or need to derate the
>>conductors) on the conduit with three current-carrying #6 conductors?
>
> Those sizes came from a NEC code book they had there in the store.
>
> brian
Never use the minimum conduit size allowed by the NEC. It's not worth it.
Also consider using boxes as pull points when you change direction and at
reasonable intervals.
On 7 Jun 2005 15:38:50 -0700, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>oops, I mean pushing wire throught he conduit, not cutting threads in
>the ends.
>
>brian
Since you were buying pre bent 90s anyway you could have bought
conduit bodies and had an installed pull point at all the ugly bends.
Bigger pipe is always easier to pull. It just comes down to labor/pain
vs money.
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:15:58 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >It was tough. I finished it last night. I used 90 degree fittings
> >also which made it that much worse. Half way through the project, I
> >started threading sections of emt as I assembled them.
>
> Threading EMT is _explicitly_forbidden_ by the NEC.
I *think* he meant as in "threading a needle". Rather than pull the wires
through a fully assembled conduit run, he's pushing the conduit sections onto
the cable, one at a time.
At least, that's what I think he meant.
--
Art Greenberg
artg AT eclipse DOT net
On 6 Jun 2005 13:49:20 -0700, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>If you're using THHN or THWN conductors, that's ok. If TW, THW, RHW, or RHH,
>>you have a code violation already. They're probably THHN, but you oughta check
>>just to make sure. It's stamped on the insulation.
>
>I believe it's THHN. He had a code book there and looked up the types,
>gauge, and conduit sizes on the spot.
>
>
>>The NEC _explicitly_permits_ the use of EMT as an equipment grounding
>>conductor. [Article 250-91(b)]
>
>Thanks, this is what I was looking for.
There is one other thing to consider and that is three 6s in 3/4"
conduit, even thought permitted, can be a tough pull (especially over
75'. Can it hurt you to put in 1" instead? You'll probably have to use
preformed elbows.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
In article <[email protected]>, "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote:
>It was tough. I finished it last night. I used 90 degree fittings
>also which made it that much worse. Half way through the project, I
>started threading sections of emt as I assembled them.
Threading EMT is _explicitly_forbidden_ by the NEC.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?