Not near as much space as you'd think. Even the inexpensive card I have has
300:1 compression. It can also be set to only record movement, which
greatly reduces the amount being recorded. I used a Sylvania 960 hour time
lapse VCR, but recently switched to this:
http://www.grandtec.com/eguard.htm.
I can record weeks worth of constant video (not just movement) on the hard
drive. Once the drive is full, it will write over the oldest video if I
select that option. If I ran a business, I could dump a weeks worth of data
on a few DVDs. I just bought Verbatim 4X DVDs at Circuit City for $36 for
30 disks.
That single time lapse VCR was only a single channel. So to record multiple
cameras, either a sequencer is needed, or a quad splitter. This gets to be
more expensive and troublesome than the digital setup. My VCR died a little
over a year after buying it ($399). The computer now recording my video is
5 years old and is still running strong. Oh, and I paid $399 for that
computer too. ;-)
Unlike movies, security videos typically run at a slower frame rate, also
reducing the amount of space needed.
"Leuf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is highly unlikely. Digital video, even at reduced resolution
> and with realtime compression, eats through disk space like you
> wouldn't believe. 12 cameras going 24/7 is a lot of bits to store.
> No matter how much disk space they install, eventually it's going to
> fill up. Then it either has to be deleted or backed up to some other
> medium. It's pretty unlikely they would go to the expense of making
> the backups and storing them. More likely they have enough disk space
> to store as many days as they think is worthwhile to keep.
>
> The real advantage is that with an analog tape the tape is recorded on
> over and over again until it degrades to the point of having to be
> replaced. With digital you don't have to deal with tape wear, or
> cleaning the heads on the vcrs. And a server takes up less space than
> a bank of vcrs. But on the other hand, you don't have to worry about
> the vcr crashing.
>
>
> -Leuf
>
In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:
> No sign necessary. These days, you can just assume that you are being
> watched when you go into a retail store. That's the cost of having
> Wynona Ryders out there!
That's the reality of being in PUBLIC. I'm a big privacy advocate
also, but anything I'm doing in public, in full view of anyone who
might be watching, is by definition NOT private, and thus not a privacy
issue.
You have a reasonable expectation of privacy in bathroom stalls and
dressing rooms. You don't have it in any place or area where another
person could happen upon you.
Kevin
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:50:07 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
> They currently have analog cameras and VCR's. What is interesting and
>perhaps a little troubling is with the new technology, they can keep the
>imagery indefinitely.
This is highly unlikely. Digital video, even at reduced resolution
and with realtime compression, eats through disk space like you
wouldn't believe. 12 cameras going 24/7 is a lot of bits to store.
No matter how much disk space they install, eventually it's going to
fill up. Then it either has to be deleted or backed up to some other
medium. It's pretty unlikely they would go to the expense of making
the backups and storing them. More likely they have enough disk space
to store as many days as they think is worthwhile to keep.
The real advantage is that with an analog tape the tape is recorded on
over and over again until it degrades to the point of having to be
replaced. With digital you don't have to deal with tape wear, or
cleaning the heads on the vcrs. And a server takes up less space than
a bank of vcrs. But on the other hand, you don't have to worry about
the vcr crashing.
-Leuf
I hope they are also going into biometric face scanning technology. That
way they can eventually link names with faces at checkout time. Or scan
all stores automatically for know offenders faces. That is the digital
advantage and it is done in more places than casinos.( why did you think
they scan your photo ID when you sign up for players club cards and
such?) But it is all good for security and one day crooks won't even be
able to go outside. But on the other hand, the mis-identifications have
been fiascos. Over all I am in favor of it. It isn't cheap.
John
Mark & Juanita wrote:
>Take a look at:
><http://www.forbes.com/2003/09/17/0917homedepotpinnacor.html>
>
>
> ah, the times we live in.
>
>
I wish it was part of the plan. I love Home Depot, up until I need help
with something or want to check out. Invariably there is a herd of orange
at the back of some remote aisle. Half the time I feel like Indiana Jones
trying to find someone. Then when you get to the checkout and heaven forbid
the item you have doesnt scan or has no bar code you can stand there until
the next Olympic Games occurs. I tried to buy a single 8' piece of 1x3
maple the other day and could have grown the tree myself buy the time it got
rang up. I tell the girl, "It's maple, $1.10 a linear foot, $8.80." I
stood there 10 minutes to get it rung up. Sad.
Rico wrote in message ...
>TomL wrote:
>> Maybe instead of watching me they should be watching the orange aprons
>> all congregated in some remote corner of the store.
>>
>> TomL
>>
>I expect that's part of the plan.
>
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Take a look at:
> <http://www.forbes.com/2003/09/17/0917homedepotpinnacor.html>
>
>
> ah, the times we live in.
I figure that, if I am not doing anything I am ashamed of, why would I
worry about them taking my picture. Of course, I am usually covered
in sawdust when I go in there....
Dick "non-photogenic" Durbin
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> They currently have analog cameras and VCR's. What is interesting and
> perhaps a little troubling is with the new technology, they can keep the
> imagery indefinitely.
Remind me not to go to the Despot with toilet paper stuck to my shoe.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 17821 Approximate word count: 534630
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Take a look at:
> <http://www.forbes.com/2003/09/17/0917homedepotpinnacor.html>
>
>
> ah, the times we live in.
Yeah the naive times we live in...
Lifted from the article is this quote:
"I realize the ultimate cost [of theft] comes back to me in the form
of price increases," Tatro said.
That blows me away. The market for home improvement stores is
relatively tight competition -- HD has only limited flexibility to
pass on theft losses to the customer. I would be amused to find that
better surveillance correlates with lower prices for customers at big
box retailers. My guess is that the reason for implementing security
cams in a massive scale is to protect the bottom line so the stock
price stays up and C_O's can keep the large numbers of zeroes in the
pay checks. Big businesses aren't about serving the customer.
Cynically,
hex
-30-
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> > They currently have analog cameras and VCR's. What is interesting and
> > perhaps a little troubling is with the new technology, they can keep the
> > imagery indefinitely.
>
> Remind me not to go to the Despot with toilet paper stuck to my shoe.
That reminds me, 2 weeks ago I went to the local county tax office to
dispute the tax value of my home. As I sat in a room of about 100 people
waiting for someone to see me up comes a lady to the front of the room and
sits down in front of every body. She had about 2 feet of toilet paper
sticking out of the back of her pants. I commended myself silently for not
busting out laughing...
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
> I've got to stop adjusting myself in the store.
>
> Barry
>
>
Why? He or she who spies on me does so at their own peril :)
Dick
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
TomL wrote:
> Maybe instead of watching me they should be watching the orange aprons
> all congregated in some remote corner of the store.
>
> TomL
>
I expect that's part of the plan.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:33:42 -0400, Silvan
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Mark & Juanita wrote:
> >
> >> They currently have analog cameras and VCR's. What is interesting and
> >> perhaps a little troubling is with the new technology, they can keep the
> >> imagery indefinitely.
>
> I've got to stop adjusting myself in the store.
Particularly if you plan to pursue a career in politics someday. :)
Abe
"Leuf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:50:07 GMT, Mark & Juanita
: <[email protected]> wrote:
: This is highly unlikely. Digital video, even at reduced resolution
: and with realtime compression, eats through disk space like you
: wouldn't believe. 12 cameras going 24/7 is a lot of bits to store.
: No matter how much disk space they install, eventually it's going to
: fill up. Then it either has to be deleted or backed up to some other
: medium. It's pretty unlikely they would go to the expense of making
: the backups and storing them. More likely they have enough disk space
: to store as many days as they think is worthwhile to keep.
:
: The real advantage is that with an analog tape the tape is recorded on
: over and over again until it degrades to the point of having to be
: replaced. With digital you don't have to deal with tape wear, or
: cleaning the heads on the vcrs. And a server takes up less space than
: a bank of vcrs. But on the other hand, you don't have to worry about
: the vcr crashing.
:
The real benefit is the speed at which you can "fast forward" to a time
and date. With a digital system like we have here, I can type in the exact
time I want to view, and the camera. It also has range/zone alerts, which
are usefull for checking afterhour visitors. We keep two weeks of data
here, then it gets overwrittend.
Harddrives have a limit on reading writing also, so they have to be
"cleaned" (trashed) and replaced. Most units don't use windows, so crashing
isn't normally a problem. Things I can do:
1. Verify employee hours, even when I'm not here.
2. Watch individuals with keys during off hours (in the place)
3. Check outgoing stock/ incomming.
4. Know when the mailman came.
I spend less time checking the camera daily than I did writing this.
(Normal non-affiliation garbage here, www.dedicatedmicros.com, model D4)
(Well, some affiliation, I sell them occasionally, but I don't work for
them)
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote in rec.woodworking
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:33:42 -0400, Silvan
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Mark & Juanita wrote:
>>
>>> They currently have analog cameras and VCR's. What is interesting
>>> and
>>> perhaps a little troubling is with the new technology, they can keep
>>> the imagery indefinitely.
>
> I've got to stop adjusting myself in the store.
>
> Barry
Hmmm, better stop scratchin my butt in the tools section.
Leuf <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> This is highly unlikely. Digital video, even at reduced resolution
> and with realtime compression, eats through disk space like you
> wouldn't believe. 12 cameras going 24/7 is a lot of bits to store.
> No matter how much disk space they install, eventually it's going to
> fill up. Then it either has to be deleted or backed up to some other
> medium. It's pretty unlikely they would go to the expense of making
> the backups and storing them. More likely they have enough disk space
> to store as many days as they think is worthwhile to keep.
I think they used the word 'indefinitely' incorrectly, probably meaning
they can keep info longer. Statute of limitations would apply to any
'crimes' commited and recorded. Unless someone was murdered, I would see no
reason to keep this data forever.
"Gredo Goldenstein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I wish it was part of the plan. I love Home Depot, up until I need help
> with something or want to check out. Invariably there is a herd of orange
> at the back of some remote aisle. Half the time I feel like Indiana Jones
> trying to find someone. Then when you get to the checkout and heaven
forbid
> the item you have doesnt scan or has no bar code you can stand there until
> the next Olympic Games occurs. I tried to buy a single 8' piece of 1x3
> maple the other day and could have grown the tree myself buy the time it
got
> rang up. I tell the girl, "It's maple, $1.10 a linear foot, $8.80." I
> stood there 10 minutes to get it rung up. Sad.
>
take a pencil and paper with you. if the item you pick up off the shelf
doesn't have a sku on it, write it down. it'll save you a LOT of time, as
i've found out.
>
> Rico wrote in message ...
> >TomL wrote:
> >> Maybe instead of watching me they should be watching the orange aprons
> >> all congregated in some remote corner of the store.
> >>
> >> TomL
> >>
> >I expect that's part of the plan.
> >
> >
> >
> >-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> >http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> >-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>
>
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:38:50 GMT, "Gredo Goldenstein"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I wish it was part of the plan. I love Home Depot, up until I need help
>with something or want to check out. Invariably there is a herd of orange
>at the back of some remote aisle.
Try standing there screaming "customer service in plumbing!" (or
whatever appropriate place). It works wonders, just don't do it if you
plan on going back too often. ;-)
Oh, yeah, don't tell anyone *I* suggested it.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I was shocked to learn that they did not have this already...
>
They currently have analog cameras and VCR's. What is interesting and
perhaps a little troubling is with the new technology, they can keep the
imagery indefinitely.
>
> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Take a look at:
> > <http://www.forbes.com/2003/09/17/0917homedepotpinnacor.html>
> >
> >
> > ah, the times we live in.
>
>
>
I was shocked to learn that they did not have this already...
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Take a look at:
> <http://www.forbes.com/2003/09/17/0917homedepotpinnacor.html>
>
>
> ah, the times we live in.
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:33:42 -0400, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
>> They currently have analog cameras and VCR's. What is interesting and
>> perhaps a little troubling is with the new technology, they can keep the
>> imagery indefinitely.
I've got to stop adjusting myself in the store.
Barry
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> > They currently have analog cameras and VCR's. What is interesting and
> > perhaps a little troubling is with the new technology, they can keep the
> > imagery indefinitely.
So what? "I" have the same technology at my HOUSE. I took an old
E-Machine, added a Grand e-Guard video capture card
(http://www.grandtec.com/eguard.htm) from Ebay ($30), a few inexpensive CCTV
cameras from Super Circuits (http://www.supercircuits.com), and my computer
logs any movement on my property. The software that came with the video
capture card allows a grid to be placed over each camera image and only
movement within that grid will be stored to the hard drive. I can also
access the LIVE video from any other computer.
Crime has increased to the point that I feel the need to now monitor my yard
and house. I already had one camper stolen while I was at work.
(http://www.2manytoyz.com/stolen.html) A few months back, my replacement
camper was almost stolen too. A neighbor happened to see what was going on
at 4:30 AM. She called the cops and the bad guy beat feet when he saw her,
leaving a stolen truck parked in my yard. Not long before that, a gang of
kids went through all the cars parked outside, breaking in them and stealing
anything they could find. Another neighbor saw them and the cops nabbed a
few, which ratted on the rest. None of the criminals live in the
neighborhood, but apparently, it's worthwhile to "shop" here. Numerous
houses have been robbed.
My images are recorded daily, recorded electronically. I can share them
with the world, but so what. Ya wanna see the meter reader walking through
my yard? Probably no more than he wants to see you at the BORG. Want to
see me at my BORG?... hang out there, I'll be along shortly. Take pictures
if you want.
Ever go to a bank, any chain store, an airport, or even 7-11? You have been
recorded for years, probably daily. As long as you ain't up to nuthin', you
got nuthin' to worry about. The next scumbag that tries something at my
place is in trouble. I'll post their pics online FOREVER, then hunt them
down. --- Insert psychotic laughter here ---
:-)
I don't understand having any problem with it. Of course, I know
people will balk at the privacy issue, but this is nothing new. Most
stores have been doing this for decades. When you get down to it, you
aren't at homw, so you lose a certain amount of expectation of
privacy. Anyway, why would you expect it in a public store? The only
reason you would have to worry is if you are shoplifting/stealing.
It's not like they are poring over the image of every customer that
comes in the store. No need to worry that your head may end up on the
body of a famous porn star over the internet. Just be glad that they
are trying to cut down on theft and (ideally, but not realistically)
trying to pass on those savings to paying customers.
No sign necessary. These days, you can just assume that you are being
watched when you go into a retail store. That's the cost of having
Wynona Ryders out there!
homer
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:43:50 GMT, Dave Balderstone
<dave***@balderstone.ca> wrote:
>As long as it's prominently announced with signage as I walk into the
>store I have little problem it.
>
>djb
Leuf wrote:
> cleaning the heads on the vcrs. And a server takes up less space than
> a bank of vcrs. But on the other hand, you don't have to worry about
> the vcr crashing.
Don't have to worry about the computer crashing either if they had the good
sense to base their system around pretty much any OS that didn't come from
Microsoft. :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 17825 Approximate word count: 534750
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Maybe instead of watching me they should be watching the orange aprons
all congregated in some remote corner of the store.
TomL
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 03:41:20 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Take a look at:
><http://www.forbes.com/2003/09/17/0917homedepotpinnacor.html>
>
>
> ah, the times we live in.