did you know???

On Jan 8, 10:36=A0am, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "David Paste" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> On Jan 8, 4:37 am, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "David Paste" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:[email protected]...
> > On Jan 6, 11:27 pm, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > And if we all just go back to stardust, no big deal. But then, if
> > > that occurs, what was life all about, anyway?
>
> > You're pulling the collective leg, surely?!
>
> > If you can't answer the question, please just say so.
>
> > Steve
>
> OK, well, I'll bite. The purpose of life is to continue life.
>
> reply:
>
> I ........... KNEW ........... that if I stayed around long enough and re=
ad
> enough of your spew that you would EVENTUALLY say something that made sen=
se.
>
> Kinda like the room full of monkeys and typewriters thing .............
>
> Steve

You'd get ribbons all over the place?
.
.
..
I keed.

On Jan 7, 2:35=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:

> You do realize that much of your judgment of right and wrong is cultural
> conditioning?

Yeah, I do.


> You do understand do you not that there are two covenants in the Bible,
> that between God and the Jews as mediated by Moses and that between God
> and everybody else as mediated by Jesus?

Yeah, I do.


> Stalin seems to have thrived just fine on atheism. =A0Or was he not
> "maniacal" enough for you?

Stalin didn't use atheism as the sole reason or method of executing
his particular brand of cruelty. He was pretty clearly a psychopath.
The bad-eggs in the various churches don't use religion as the sole
reason or method of executing their particular brand of cruelty.

Stalin used his implemented totalitarianism to commit his cruelties,
and as I understand it, Stalin wasn't an atheist. Other psychopaths
use the totalitarian regime of religion to 'thrive' within their own
world. The point is that any totalitarian system will result in a lack
of open checks that allow the nefarious to rise, because, hey, lets
face it if you're questioning the leader, you must be against us all,
right?!


> But don't be so open minded that your brain falls out.

Indeed, we should all be more sceptical. But you know, there's even a
story in the new testament about that - some bloke called Tom had a
few doubts. In the end, it turns out that the religious leader was
promoting gullibility. Err, I mean faith.

On Jan 6, 11:27=A0pm, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:

> And if we all just go back to stardust, no big deal. =A0But then, if
> that occurs, what was life all about, anyway?


You're pulling the collective leg, surely?!

On Jan 8, 7:41=A0pm, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Most morals and "The Ten Commandments" are all based on self-protection.


10 points to this man!

Disbelief wrote:
> jwana wrote:
>> Muslims Love Jesus And His Mother
>>
>>
>>
>> Religious rubbish snipped<
>
> And replaced by the words of John Lennon's "Imagine"
>
> Now if *ALL* religious nuts (and particularly Islamist who follow the
> most violent of religions) recanted and followed the words of the
> late and great John Lennon - the world would be a far, far better
> place.

No it wouldn't. Not until you got rid of all of those other non-religous
nuts that the rest of the song talks about. Why focus just on the religious
nuts?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Jan 7, 5:23=A0am, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:

> You misunderstand religious teaching AND ethics.

No, I think you do.

> "Right" or "wrong" is not determined by "any given situation."

Actually, in almost all situations, it is.

> In religion, morality is absolute, being handed down by God.

And this is the fundamental problem - it doesn't flex with the growth
of society's intellectual development.

> In systematic ethics, there are still principles
> that shape actions. You just don't make up the rules as you go along.

Sadly, you are wrong. I can only really think of two absolutes: 1. No
murder, and; 2. No physical / mental exploitation of the vulnerable. I
am sure others could think of more, and I'll be happy to consider
them. To say that morality is absolute is bunkum. Being animals, we
are necessarily pragmatic.

> Totally false understanding of the Bible. The injunction against mixing
> fibers, or meat with milk, or not eating pork, and so on, are binding onl=
y
> on the Jews. If you, as a Goyim, want to do those thing, go right ahead. =
God
> won't mind.

Ah! Well, there's always a get out clause! And here's me thinking that
the new testament is build from the guidelines of the old! Sorry, I'll
recant my statement. Does this mean that we can ignore the old
testament then? Or can we just ignore the bits which don't agree with
your current 'absolute' interpretation?

The WHOLE of the bible is a guideline - this has been repeated to me
over and over again by practitioners (preists, vicars and the like) of
many different christian denominations. It is the loons who bugger up
THIS message. Never trust a zealot! Especially a zealot who tells you
that a particular book is A-OK for 'moral absolutes' even if it
actively discriminates against Jews and Non Jews. Sounds like a big
bag of nonsense to me!

What would Jesus do? Probably have a brew & a fag (if indeed he had
access to tea and tobacco), a bit of a think and do something
pragmatic. I mean, it's seen in the bible over and over again.

On Jan 8, 4:37=A0am, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "David Paste" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> On Jan 6, 11:27 pm, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > And if we all just go back to stardust, no big deal. But then, if
> > that occurs, what was life all about, anyway?
>
> You're pulling the collective leg, surely?!
>
> If you can't answer the question, please just say so.
>
> Steve

OK, well, I'll bite. The purpose of life is to continue life.

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:29:12 -0800, Robatoy wrote:
>
>> I'll give you hint: People fight for a LOT of reasons besides
>> religion: Gold, trade routes, drugs...oil... perpetuating the
>> defense industries on behalf of your shareholders? (Carlyle Group)
>
> Very true. However those reasons are often cloaked in religion (or
> nationalism) to make them more palatable to the people who have to do
> the actual fighting.

Have to disagree with you on this Larry. Pure, old human greed and human
nature lie at the root of a lot of the evils of the world. BTW - religion
and nationalism are in no way the same. I think your assujmption that
religion lies at the root of these, to make them more palatable, cannot be
substantiated. Increasingly so today, where a religious basis would not be
a more palatable explanation.

I think more people today tend to blame human nature on religion - to escape
the mantle of responsibility that human nature might bring upon themselves.
Distance yourself from religion - you can easily distance yourself from the
problems that you blame on religion. Ignore the fact that in the first
order, it is people perpetuating these atrocities, and it becomes easy to
extend the blame to the second order and put religion at fault. Time to
step back and look at the people involved and quit looking to cast blame
outside of those people.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Jan 7, 9:54=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I prefer to be a little more sadistic, by making the SOBs squirm and
> sweat a little.


There was one incident when two Mormon missionaries came-a-knocking at
9:30 on a Sunday morning. I had been out the night before and must
have looked a right old state, wobbling there in my dressing gown, but
I do as I have always done in such circumstances and invited them in
for tea and (a bit early, but what the heck) a slice of cake. We had a
lovely half-hour chat about life, the universe and everything, and
they went on their way, refuelled. I should point out that the two
missionaries were a couple of very attractive young ladies - one red-
headed American, and a blonde Swede. I still can't figure out if the
Mormon church unwittingly sent two lambs to the slaughter in that
particular part of Manchester like they did, or it was actually an
unbelievably shrewd marketing technique!

"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Why is it that people who are against religion must enforce their
>> "beliefs", which atheism is, on others, and then get their shorts in a
>> wad whenever someone wants to exhibit or demonstrate their "beliefs"?
>
> There are at least 1000 brain damaged religious fucks preaching their shit
> for every 1 preaching reality. Not that there are that few people without
> their head in their ass, it's just that they generaly don't make a big
> deal out of it. About the only time you will hear it is when one of you
> brain damaged fucks decide to start pushing your bullshit on people that
> didn't ask for it.
>>
>
>
>> The "judicial" system has ruled against the people who put up and
>> maintain fourteen white roadside crosses that honor highway patrolmen who
>> lost their lives serving the public.
> >There is no "religion" involved in this, just
>> honoring fallen public servants.
>>
> Now I suppose you are going to say that a cross is not a religious symbol.
> Tell you what, make yourself a cross, put it in your front yard and piss
> on it once a day. Which is going to make a bigger deal of it, the police
> when they charge you with whatever the hell they're going to charge you
> with or the religious twits? I know you wouldn't think of actually trying
> this because you know that a cross IS a religious symbol.
>

And away you gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

> David Paste wrote:
>>> Point is, no religion is hide-bound and immune to change. The
>>> authority and methodology for handling new situations is codified
>>> somewhere.
>>
>> Religion must ultimately bend to the wish of the followers. It tends
>> to resist this for as long as possible. That's a very human trait,
>> no?!
>>

The Catholic Church has altar boys ultimately bending over for the wish of
the priest to administer liquid communion

RE: Subject

There are more than 1 billion Chinese people in the world.

Doubt you can find 100,000 of them that give a good doodlie about the
subject.

Lew

"Steve B" wrote:

> I have talked to God, and he has talked to me.
--------------------------------
Need to talk about some desert land in SW Florida.

Lew

On 01/06/2011 07:14 PM, David Paste wrote:
> On Jan 6, 9:46 am, Stuart<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Try telling that to all those who suffered under Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Pol
>> Pot, Stalin and other Russian Dictators, and a hundred others in countries
>> round the world.
>
> Bogus argument - simply one fascism replaced by another.
>
>> I have friends in what used to be East Germany, they have some harrowing
>> tales to tell of what happens in a country with no religious moral code to
>> restrain it's leadership.
>
> That's just offensive. I am not religious, and I have no problems in
> judging what is right or wrong, ethically, in any given situation. My
> ONE big advantage over the religious people out there is that I will
> NEVER be compelled to act on the false premise that it is what is
> simply done through inculcated routine, no matter what that action may
> be.
>
> Also: Read the bible and tell me if you /really/ want religious 'moral
> codes' governing your life. Hell's bells, man! I'm even wearing two
> different fibres as I type! Had a prawn mayo butty for dinner!
>
> Religion's 'moral codes' are simply a collection of the society's
> 'moral codes' of the time and place they were codified, and
> unfortunately for all, the religious zealots do their best to keep
> these rules rather than letting them change or disappear as that
> society's collective intellect grows. I am not that cognitively
> stunted, thanks very much.
>
> Religious moral code indeed! Pah! Religion is a perfect system for the
> maniacal to thrive.
>
> As the late Bob Marley sang: "Emancipate yourselves from mental
> slavery; None but ourselves can free our mind"
>
> YEAH BABY!

Hmmmm, I wonder why the western world's legal/judicial system is based
on the ten commandments?

"Larry Blanchard" wrote:

> Good point Larry - I can't remember any unbelievers knocking on my
> door
> to convert me :-).
-----------------------------------
It's fun to play mind games with the fish fucks when the come
knocking.

If it takes more than about 3-4 minutes for them to give up and leave,
I'm off my game.

No matter what they say, my response is always the same.

"That's a very interesting statement, mind if I ask you a question?

"Why did you make that statement?"

Most of them can't wait to leave.

Lew

"Robatoy" wrote:

> I answer the door and make up my own foreign language, mumble in
nordic/slavic/roman tonal jibberish and shrug a lot. 15 seconds, max..
they're outta here.
----------------------------------
I prefer to be a little more sadistic, by making the SOBs squirm and
sweat a little.

Kind of like turning a fly into a walk, one wing at a time.

Lew

"Disbelief" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steve B wrote:
>> Did you know that answering a Mooslim troll makes you look stoopid?
>> ..............................
>
> Did you know that poor snipping makes you look even more "stoopid"?

No, posting the whole thing again, or posting it after the discussion has
been going on for a while makes one look stoopid.

I believe everyone knows what I was referring to.

But, in case you don't, this is just for you:

jwana wrote:

Muslims Love Jesus And His Mother




Isa peace be upon him was explicitly mentioned in the Holy Quran on
sixteen different occasions. On one occasion Allah the Exalted said in
Surat Al-Maidah verse 110
( (remember) when Allah will say( on the day of resurrection )."O
Isa(Jesus), son of Mariyam(Mary)! Remember my favor to you and to your
mother when I supported your with ruh -u- qudus [ Jibrail (Gabril)] so
that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I
taught you writing, Al Hikmah(the power of understanding), the
Taurat(Torah) and the Ingil( Gospel); and when you made out of the
clay, a figure like that of a bird, by my permission, and you breathed
into it, and it became a bird by my permission, and you healed those
born blind, and the lepers by my permission, and when you brought
forth the dead by my permission; and when I restrained the children of
Israel from you ( when they resolved to kill you) as you came unto
them with clear proofs and the disbelievers among them said: "This is
nothing but evident magic" ? )
On the other hand Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him was explicitly
mentioned in the Holy Quran four times While the Virgin Mary (peace be
upon her) the mother of Jesus(Isa) was mentioned eight times and has a
complete Sura (chapter) named after her.
On one occasion Allah the All Mighty said in Surat Al- Imran verse
145:
( (remember) when the angles said: " Oh Mariyam (Mary)! Verily, Allah
gives you the glad tidings of a word["Be!"- and he was! i.e.' Isa
( Jesus) the son of Mariyam( Mary) ] From him his name will be the
Messiah 'Isa (Jesus) the son of Mary ( Mariyam), held in honor in this
world and in the hereafter, and will be one of those who is near to
Allah.)
As a family they have been mentioned in the Holy Quran three times and
they have been privileged by having a complete Sura(chapter) named
after them(Al Imran). Which is imprinted in the hearts and minds of
the believers forever>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP2cbm5zsi0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20A8tg8ZlJM

for more:
www.islamtomorrow.com

In article <[email protected]>,
Disbelief <[email protected]> wrote:
> Because more wars, terror, hunger, brutality and sheer intolerance are
> caused in the name of religion.

Try telling that to all those who suffered under Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Pol
Pot, Stalin and other Russian Dictators, and a hundred others in countries
round the world.

I have friends in what used to be East Germany, they have some harrowing
tales to tell of what happens in a country with no religious moral code to
restrain it's leadership.

--
Stuart Winsor

Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011

On Jan 6, 9:46=A0am, Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:

> Try telling that to all those who suffered under Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Po=
l
> Pot, Stalin and other Russian Dictators, and a hundred others in countrie=
s
> round the world.

Bogus argument - simply one fascism replaced by another.

> I have friends in what used to be East Germany, they have some harrowing
> tales to tell of what happens in a country with no religious moral code t=
o
> restrain it's leadership.

That's just offensive. I am not religious, and I have no problems in
judging what is right or wrong, ethically, in any given situation. My
ONE big advantage over the religious people out there is that I will
NEVER be compelled to act on the false premise that it is what is
simply done through inculcated routine, no matter what that action may
be.

Also: Read the bible and tell me if you /really/ want religious 'moral
codes' governing your life. Hell's bells, man! I'm even wearing two
different fibres as I type! Had a prawn mayo butty for dinner!

Religion's 'moral codes' are simply a collection of the society's
'moral codes' of the time and place they were codified, and
unfortunately for all, the religious zealots do their best to keep
these rules rather than letting them change or disappear as that
society's collective intellect grows. I am not that cognitively
stunted, thanks very much.

Religious moral code indeed! Pah! Religion is a perfect system for the
maniacal to thrive.

As the late Bob Marley sang: "Emancipate yourselves from mental
slavery; None but ourselves can free our mind"

YEAH BABY!

On Jan 8, 3:36=A0pm, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I ........... KNEW ........... that if I stayed around long enough and re=
ad
> enough of your spew that you would EVENTUALLY say something that made sen=
se.
>
> Kinda like the room full of monkeys and typewriters thing .............


Well good for you!

Welcome ...

No .. Islam is not, as they say ..

Log in here to correct your information:

http://www.islamtomorrow.com

On Jan 7, 8:48=A0am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 20:43:29 -0700, Doug Winterburn
>
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On 01/06/2011 07:14 PM, David Paste wrote:
> >> On Jan 6, 9:46 am, Stuart<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >>> Try telling that to all those who suffered under Hitler, Mao Tse Tung=
, Pol
> >>> Pot, Stalin and other Russian Dictators, and a hundred others in coun=
tries
> >>> round the world.
>
> >> Bogus argument - simply one fascism replaced by another.
>
> >>> I have friends in what used to be East Germany, they have some harrow=
ing
> >>> tales to tell of what happens in a country with no religious moral co=
de to
> >>> restrain it's leadership.
>
> >> That's just offensive. I am not religious, and I have no problems in
> >> judging what is right or wrong, ethically, in any given situation. My
> >> ONE big advantage over the religious people out there is that I will
> >> NEVER be compelled to act on the false premise that it is what is
> >> simply done through inculcated routine, no matter what that action may
> >> be.
>
> >> Also: Read the bible and tell me if you /really/ want religious 'moral
> >> codes' governing your life. Hell's bells, man! I'm even wearing two
> >> different fibres as I type! Had a prawn mayo butty for dinner!
>
> >> Religion's 'moral codes' are simply a collection of the society's
> >> 'moral codes' of the time and place they were codified, and
> >> unfortunately for all, the religious zealots do their best to keep
> >> these rules rather than letting them change or disappear as that
> >> society's collective intellect grows. I am not that cognitively
> >> stunted, thanks very much.
>
> >> Religious moral code indeed! Pah! Religion is a perfect system for the
> >> maniacal to thrive.
>
> >> As the late Bob Marley sang: "Emancipate yourselves from mental
> >> slavery; None but ourselves can free our mind"
>
> >> YEAH BABY!
>
> >Hmmmm, I wonder why the western world's legal/judicial system is based
> >on the ten commandments?
>
> Ever wonder why there are nearly FIFTY THOUSAND laws enforcing said 15
> (<CRASH> Damnit!) 10 Commandments?
>
At last count, there are 632 commandments.

Btw... I found the concept of an atheist republican harder to get my
head around than a Christian democrat.

On Jan 7, 4:10=A0am, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Trouble is that we can never tell others which one was right ............
> We just put our money on our horse, and the instant its nose touches the
> line, we're out of here.
>
> Steve

Not really, that's a terribly defeatist attitude. I may not hold your,
or anyone else's, religious beliefs, but that doesn't mean I am going
to be constantly at odds with your way of life. I am well aware that
the odds are you are a fundamentally good person, and you'll take
consideration in the things that you do. Rather than looking for
differences and arguing about them, look for points of commonality and
exploit those instead. Be good, he helpful, don't force your own
personal beliefs on others (feel free to tell people about them, but
don't force them... this is what the mad mullahs and the Westboro
Crackpot Team don't understand) and everything else will pretty much
take care of itself.

willshak wrote:
> jwana wrote the following:
>
> drivel snipped.
>
>
> All religion is man made by people who stated they talked with God.
> They're still around today but they have television shows now.

Step into the 21st century - they have Blogs now...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 16:54:23 -0800, "Steve B"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>>>Of course it's the actions of the religious people which are causing
>>>the problems, but religion tends to draw them to it. I still feel
>>>that the world would be better off without organized religions. Then
>>>people would see the scammers for what they truly are, without the
>>>disguise of a cross or book.
>
>The playing field needs to be leveled.
>
>Why is it that people who are against religion must enforce their "beliefs",
>which atheism is, on others, and then get their shorts in a wad whenever
>someone wants to exhibit or demonstrate their "beliefs"?

They usually don't. They usually shut up and hope the Jesus Freaks
wind down quickly. (BTW, I'm not an atheist.)


>http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700058122/Judges-rule-against-Utah-highway-crosses-for-fallen-troopers.html
>
>The "judicial" system has ruled against the people who put up and maintain
>fourteen white roadside crosses that honor highway patrolmen who lost their
>lives serving the public. There is no "religion" involved in this, just
>honoring fallen public servants.

Crosses and other roadside memorial crap are religious. Religious
folks just don't get that. Stop pushing it. How many athiestic or
agnostic symbols do you see on the side of the road, Steve? I'll bet
you can't even point to one.


>So, help me understand why one man's beliefs are more important than
>another's, especially when it involves something that is not religious in
>nature? Especially when in involves one person being legally able to shove
>his belief or lack of it down another's throat.

Excuse me, sir, but it's the religious freaks who want to stuff their
beliefs down the public's throat. Take your crosses to your churches
and your Buddha-damned memorial worshiping to the cemetaries, where
they belong. Leave my countryside bare of your religious artifacts,
please. We all have our own beliefs. Why won't religious people let
the others alone? Atheists (the vast majority, anyway) and agnostics
don't go around forcing their beliefs on others.

Why must Christians, in particular, push their shit so forcefully on
other unwilling subjects? Missionaries through the years are almost
all Christian. I guess the Muslims are now doing that, too. I'd like
all of that to stop. If you want someone to believe as you do, let
your actions be their guide.

Religious people are like dog owners. They just don't hear the crap
they spew...and their dogs never, ever bark. Feh!

PLEASE believe what you wish. Just don't try to force it on us.
We have our own beliefs and are happy with them. Please go be happy
with yours in quiet, as we do.

--
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
-- Victor Borge

Disbelief wrote the following:
> Tim W wrote:
>
>> "Disbelief" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> ... John Lennon...>
>>> And the irony is that he was murdered by and American from the
>>> so-called nation of peace.
>>>
>>>
>> Nobody has ever called America a 'Nation of Peace' have they?
>>
>> Tim W
>>
>
> Well many Americans believe that bullshit along with the "land of the free"
> etc - after all, it is "brainwashed" into them from a very young age, along
> with the thinking that America is actually "the world" and nothing exists
> beyond its shores.
>
> When Americans finally wake up to the fact that they are not the only
> residents on this planet, the may well become a half-way decent nation -
> let's hope that's not too far in the future.
>
> Good night.

If we sail away from America in any direction we will fall off the edge of the world.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

jwana wrote the following:

drivel snipped.


All religion is man made by people who stated they talked with God.
They're still around today but they have television shows now.




--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Jan 7, 12:44=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Larry Blanchard" wrote:
> > Good point Larry - I can't remember any unbelievers knocking on my
> > door
> > to convert me :-).
>
> -----------------------------------
> It's fun to play mind games with the fish fucks when the come
> knocking.
>
> If it takes more than about 3-4 minutes for them to give up and leave,
> I'm off my game.
>
> No matter what they say, my response is always the same.
>
> "That's a very interesting statement, mind if I ask you a question?
>
> "Why did you make that statement?"
>
> Most of them can't wait to leave.
>
> Lew

I answer the door and make up my own foreign language, mumble in
nordic/slavic/roman tonal jibberish and shrug a lot. 15 seconds, max..
they're outta here.

On Jan 10, 3:56=A0pm, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
>
> >> I ........... KNEW ........... that if I stayed around long enough
> >> and read enough of your spew that you would EVENTUALLY say something
> >> that made sense.
>
> >> Kinda like the room full of monkeys and typewriters thing
> >> .............
>
> >> Steve
>
> > You'd get ribbons all over the place?
> > .
> > .
> > ..
>
> What's this "typewriter" business you folks keep going on about?

I have a 12" Vinyl LP with a course on using a typewriter. Comes with
a book.
Carriage return has nothing to do with a ride in Central Park.
White-Out doesn't just refer to snow or Kirsty Alley's ass.

On Jan 6, 9:20=A0pm, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > "Steve B" wrote:
>
> >> I have talked to God, and he has talked to me.
> > --------------------------------
> > Need to talk about some desert land in SW Florida.
>
> > Lew
>
> If that's what you believe, so be it.
>
> Steve

Got to love those atheists... they'll write a book about atheism and
pray it will sell.

David Paste wrote:
>
> That's just offensive. I am not religious, and I have no problems in
> judging what is right or wrong, ethically, in any given situation. My
> ONE big advantage over the religious people out there is that I will
> NEVER be compelled to act on the false premise that it is what is
> simply done through inculcated routine, no matter what that action may
> be.

You misunderstand religious teaching AND ethics. "Right" or "wrong" is not
determined by "any given situation." In religion, morality is absolute,
being handed down by God. In systematic ethics, there are still principles
that shape actions. You just don't make up the rules as you go along.

>
> Also: Read the bible and tell me if you /really/ want religious 'moral
> codes' governing your life. Hell's bells, man! I'm even wearing two
> different fibres as I type! Had a prawn mayo butty for dinner!



Totally false understanding of the Bible. The injunction against mixing
fibers, or meat with milk, or not eating pork, and so on, are binding only
on the Jews. If you, as a Goyim, want to do those thing, go right ahead. God
won't mind.

Most morals and "The Ten Commandments" are all based on self-protection.


"David Paste" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ad756c16-f10b-4e0b-9962-3f822a3d9a24@k30g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 7, 3:43 am, Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hmmmm, I wonder why the western world's legal/judicial system is based
> on the ten commandments?

Well, it's not, is it. The 10 commandments, or the modern
representation of them are based on universal points of ethical
conduct, and so are many legal systems - have you ever wondered why
most of the world's population hold similar values, whilst most of the
worlds population were not, for a long time, privvy to the modern
representation of the 10 commandments?!

But at least you are starting to wonder - that is an excellent first
step to take! Good on ya, Doug!

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Why is it that people who are against religion must enforce their
> "beliefs", which atheism is, on others, and then get their shorts in a wad
> whenever someone wants to exhibit or demonstrate their "beliefs"?

There are at least 1000 brain damaged religious fucks preaching their shit
for every 1 preaching reality. Not that there are that few people without
their head in their ass, it's just that they generaly don't make a big deal
out of it. About the only time you will hear it is when one of you brain
damaged fucks decide to start pushing your bullshit on people that didn't
ask for it.
>


> The "judicial" system has ruled against the people who put up and maintain
> fourteen white roadside crosses that honor highway patrolmen who lost
> their lives serving the public.
>There is no "religion" involved in this, just
> honoring fallen public servants.
>
Now I suppose you are going to say that a cross is not a religious symbol.
Tell you what, make yourself a cross, put it in your front yard and piss on
it once a day. Which is going to make a bigger deal of it, the police when
they charge you with whatever the hell they're going to charge you with or
the religious twits? I know you wouldn't think of actually trying this
because you know that a cross IS a religious symbol.

David Paste wrote:
>> Point is, no religion is hide-bound and immune to change. The
>> authority and methodology for handling new situations is codified
>> somewhere.
>
> Religion must ultimately bend to the wish of the followers. It tends
> to resist this for as long as possible. That's a very human trait,
> no?!
>
>

Yep. Heard a Baptist preacher once say: "When I was ordained, there wasn't a
Baptist minister anywhere who would perform a marriage where one of the
parties had been divorced.

"Now about half of us will.

"Did the Bible change? Did God send down a new rule?

"No, of course not.

"The secret is that all religions change, some just don't like to admit it."

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> At last count, there are 632 commandments.

And you've failed the first commanment.

THOU SHALL NOT GET INVOLVED IN ANY NO WIN RELIGIOUS OR POLITICAL ARGUMENTS!

Of course, you usually do it for fun and that makes it all right. <g>

"Larry W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> HeyBub <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Larry Jaques wrote:
> <<...snipped...>>
>>
>>er, no. Crosses are a universal symbol for death. They are, for example,
>>used in medical reports. And even if crosses were meant to be religious,
>>they only symbolize the faith of the deceased.
>>
> I would differ based on this dialog:
>
> FATHER CORONA: Pax venuti nictum! Down on your knees, now! D'ye recognize
> what I'm holdin' over yer head, lads?
> INDIAN: It's a Cross. The Symbol of the Quartering of the Universe
> into Active and Passive Principles.
> FATHER CORONA: God have mercy on their heathen souls!
> CONQUISTADOR: What the Father means is - what is the Cross made of?
> Gold! Have you got any?
> INDIAN: No.
> CONQUISTADOR: What about the Seven Cities of Gold? Phoenix, Tucson,
> Las Vegas?
> SECOND INDIAN: This is gold.
> CONQUISTADOR: What's that?
> INDIAN: Corn.
> SPANISH SOLDIER: Corn! Now we can make tortillas!
> ANOTHER SPANISH SOLDIER: We've been waiting for this for hundreds of
> years!
> THIRD SPANISH SOLDIER: I just invented tacos!
> CONQUISTADOR: So this is all you've got?
> INDIAN: Yes, but aren't you The True White Brother who's supposed to
> come and live with us in peace?
> CONQUISTADOR: Sure! Therefore, I claim this rich, verdant pasture land
> in the name of the Empire of Spain!
>
> etc. etc. courtesy of and credit to FST.
>


They did all that and more in the name of the Catholic Church

You just put forth good arguments and pre-empted my same sentiments but...

then you used Stalin as a further argument as "maniacal" based on "cultural
conditioning"

I am not going anywhere with this but thought it quite humorously ironic.



"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
You do realize that much of your judgment of right and wrong is cultural
conditioning? If you don't then you need to think about how it is that
you "know" these things. There's no evidence that such "knowledge" is
innate. A hundred thousand Aztec soldiers would march happily in
formation up a pyramid to get their hearts cut out. If they didn't
"know" that that was right beyond simply having some priest bleat it at
them then they would not have done it, and being trained soldiers en
masse in a society in which a pointy stick was the ultimate weapon they
certainly had the ability to resist. Their culture had conditioned them
to believe that such things were right just as yours has conditioned you
to believe that they are wrong.

Stalin seems to have thrived just fine on atheism. Or was he not
"maniacal" enough for you?

In article <[email protected]>, willshak@
00hvc.rr.com says...
>
> Disbelief wrote the following:
> > Tim W wrote:
> >
> >> "Disbelief" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >>> ... John Lennon...>
> >>> And the irony is that he was murdered by and American from the
> >>> so-called nation of peace.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Nobody has ever called America a 'Nation of Peace' have they?
> >>
> >> Tim W
> >>
> >
> > Well many Americans believe that bullshit along with the "land of the free"
> > etc - after all, it is "brainwashed" into them from a very young age, along
> > with the thinking that America is actually "the world" and nothing exists
> > beyond its shores.
> >
> > When Americans finally wake up to the fact that they are not the only
> > residents on this planet, the may well become a half-way decent nation -
> > let's hope that's not too far in the future.
> >
> > Good night.
>
> If we sail away from America in any direction we will fall off the edge of the world.

I am curious as to which Americans believe that America is the "nation
of peace". Most that I know subscribe to the "yeah, though I walk
through the Valley of the Shadow of Death I shall fear no evil, for I am
the meanest son of a bitch in the valley" philosophy.

If you want peace, be reasonable and do it our way.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "David Paste" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:64fa7668-9bb8-4160-8ace-bc2177425dbd@i18g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 6, 9:46 am, Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Try telling that to all those who suffered under Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Pol
> > Pot, Stalin and other Russian Dictators, and a hundred others in countries
> > round the world.
>
> Bogus argument - simply one fascism replaced by another.
>
> > I have friends in what used to be East Germany, they have some harrowing
> > tales to tell of what happens in a country with no religious moral code to
> > restrain it's leadership.
>
> That's just offensive. I am not religious, and I have no problems in
> judging what is right or wrong, ethically, in any given situation. My
> ONE big advantage over the religious people out there is that I will
> NEVER be compelled to act on the false premise that it is what is
> simply done through inculcated routine, no matter what that action may
> be.

You do realize that much of your judgment of right and wrong is cultural
conditioning? If you don't then you need to think about how it is that
you "know" these things. There's no evidence that such "knowledge" is
innate. A hundred thousand Aztec soldiers would march happily in
formation up a pyramid to get their hearts cut out. If they didn't
"know" that that was right beyond simply having some priest bleat it at
them then they would not have done it, and being trained soldiers en
masse in a society in which a pointy stick was the ultimate weapon they
certainly had the ability to resist. Their culture had conditioned them
to believe that such things were right just as yours has conditioned you
to believe that they are wrong.

> Also: Read the bible and tell me if you /really/ want religious 'moral
> codes' governing your life. Hell's bells, man! I'm even wearing two
> different fibres as I type! Had a prawn mayo butty for dinner!

You do understand do you not that there are two covenants in the Bible,
that between God and the Jews as mediated by Moses and that between God
and everybody else as mediated by Jesus? And most but not all of the
Old Testament stuff such as "two different fibers" applies to the Jews
and only to the Jews. If you aren't Jewish then it doesn't apply to you
so why are you on about it? If you're going to use such examples to
show what a free thinker you are you might at least learn what it is
that you are thinking freely about.

> Religion's 'moral codes' are simply a collection of the society's
> 'moral codes' of the time and place they were codified, and
> unfortunately for all, the religious zealots do their best to keep
> these rules rather than letting them change or disappear as that
> society's collective intellect grows. I am not that cognitively
> stunted, thanks very much.

They serve other functions as well--maintaining group identity is one.

> Religious moral code indeed! Pah! Religion is a perfect system for the
> maniacal to thrive.

Stalin seems to have thrived just fine on atheism. Or was he not
"maniacal" enough for you?

> As the late Bob Marley sang: "Emancipate yourselves from mental
> slavery; None but ourselves can free our mind"

But don't be so open minded that your brain falls out.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On 01/06/2011 07:14 PM, David Paste wrote:
> > On Jan 6, 9:46 am, Stuart<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Try telling that to all those who suffered under Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Pol
> >> Pot, Stalin and other Russian Dictators, and a hundred others in countries
> >> round the world.
> >
> > Bogus argument - simply one fascism replaced by another.
> >
> >> I have friends in what used to be East Germany, they have some harrowing
> >> tales to tell of what happens in a country with no religious moral code to
> >> restrain it's leadership.
> >
> > That's just offensive. I am not religious, and I have no problems in
> > judging what is right or wrong, ethically, in any given situation. My
> > ONE big advantage over the religious people out there is that I will
> > NEVER be compelled to act on the false premise that it is what is
> > simply done through inculcated routine, no matter what that action may
> > be.
> >
> > Also: Read the bible and tell me if you /really/ want religious 'moral
> > codes' governing your life. Hell's bells, man! I'm even wearing two
> > different fibres as I type! Had a prawn mayo butty for dinner!
> >
> > Religion's 'moral codes' are simply a collection of the society's
> > 'moral codes' of the time and place they were codified, and
> > unfortunately for all, the religious zealots do their best to keep
> > these rules rather than letting them change or disappear as that
> > society's collective intellect grows. I am not that cognitively
> > stunted, thanks very much.
> >
> > Religious moral code indeed! Pah! Religion is a perfect system for the
> > maniacal to thrive.
> >
> > As the late Bob Marley sang: "Emancipate yourselves from mental
> > slavery; None but ourselves can free our mind"
> >
> > YEAH BABY!
>
> Hmmmm, I wonder why the western world's legal/judicial system is based
> on the ten commandments?

It's based on a lot of things. On much of the European continent
there's a large dose of Roman law for example.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
> > On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 23:23:13 -0600, HeyBub wrote:
> >
> >> In religion, morality is absolute,
> >> being handed down by God.
> >
> > And therein lies the problem. Those who believe such are capable of
> > falling into fanaticism. Or does "jihad" or "crusade" mean nothing to
> > you. Or how about "this land is mine because my God gave it to me and
> > I'll kill anyone who tries to take it away"?
> >
>
> I think (and I'm definitely in a minority here) that Jihad - mayhem paradigm
> is confusing the cause and effect. In my view, there are people who just
> like to kill others and blow things up. They then use religion as an excuse
> to engage in their hobby.
>
> Fortunately, the jihadists give our American warriors an excuse to kill
> people and blow things up.
>
> If it weren't for the jihadists, OUR warriors would have to invade Samoa to
> satisfy their needs.

We could just airdrop a bunch of rifles over Germany . . .

Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> I think more people today tend to blame human nature on religion - to
> escape the mantle of responsibility that human nature might bring
> upon themselves. Distance yourself from religion - you can easily
> distance yourself from the problems that you blame on religion. Ignore the
> fact that in the first order, it is people perpetuating
> these atrocities, and it becomes easy to extend the blame to the
> second order and put religion at fault. Time to step back and look
> at the people involved and quit looking to cast blame outside of
> those people.

You make a good point. Some people like to cause mayhem and they rationalize
their actions in the name of religion.

Fortunately, they provide an opportunity for OUR warrior class to kill
people and blow things up.

It averages out.

Robatoy wrote:
>>
>> I ........... KNEW ........... that if I stayed around long enough
>> and read enough of your spew that you would EVENTUALLY say something
>> that made sense.
>>
>> Kinda like the room full of monkeys and typewriters thing
>> .............
>>
>> Steve
>
> You'd get ribbons all over the place?
> .
> .
> ..

What's this "typewriter" business you folks keep going on about?

"Disbelief" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> ... John Lennon...>
> And the irony is that he was murdered by and American from the so-called
> nation of peace.
>

Nobody has ever called America a 'Nation of Peace' have they?

Tim W

On Jan 6, 10:33=A0am, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "willshak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > jwana wrote the following:
>
> > drivel snipped.
>
> > All religion is man made by people who stated they talked with God.
> > They're still around today but they have television shows now.
>
> > --
>
> > Bill
>
> I have talked to God, and he has talked to me. =A0I know this because I k=
now
> that I have talked AT him, and he has answered in many ways, it's just th=
at
> most people do not listen, nor recognize wonderful things that happen in
> their own lives. =A0Anyone who has not heard God speak by looking at a fi=
eld
> of flowers, a sunset, or a child being born just plain wasn't listening. =
=A0It
> usually takes a lot to get these people's attention, but finally come aro=
und
> when they are nailed down in a foxhole, or in ICU, or have a relative tha=
t's
> seriously sick. =A0I wonder why that is .........
>
> Steve

Yup, yup, yup and amen!

On Jan 7, 3:43=A0am, Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hmmmm, I wonder why the western world's legal/judicial system is based
> on the ten commandments?

Well, it's not, is it. The 10 commandments, or the modern
representation of them are based on universal points of ethical
conduct, and so are many legal systems - have you ever wondered why
most of the world's population hold similar values, whilst most of the
worlds population were not, for a long time, privvy to the modern
representation of the 10 commandments?!

But at least you are starting to wonder - that is an excellent first
step to take! Good on ya, Doug!

On Jan 7, 2:23=A0pm, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:

> The point is, in the study and application of ethics, there exist systems=
by
> which proper action or reaction is deemed appropriate. In a truly ethical
> person, by whatever discipline of ethics he adopts, his actions are not a=
d
> hoc, but are directed by a coherent collection of rules.

I didn't say that people are ad hoc - we generally operate by
heuristics, and as such, ethics are pragmatic.


> Point is, no religion is hide-bound and immune to change. The authority a=
nd
> methodology for handling new situations is codified somewhere.

Religion must ultimately bend to the wish of the followers. It tends
to resist this for as long as possible. That's a very human trait,
no?!


> Whether the U.S. should accept the Metric System is just not a topic for =
a
> Sunday sermon.

And just which metric system do you suggest? ;-)

On Jan 5, 6:51=A0pm, "Disbelief" <disbelief@diilly-
daally....invalid.com> wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > Disbelief wrote:
> >> jwana wrote:
> >>> Muslims Love Jesus And His Mother
>
> >>> Religious rubbish snipped<
>
> >> And replaced by the words of John Lennon's "Imagine"
>
> >> Now if *ALL* religious nuts (and particularly Islamist who follow the
> >> most violent of religions) recanted and followed the words of the
> >> late and great John Lennon - the world would be a far, far better
> >> place.
>
> > No it wouldn't. =A0Not until you got rid of all of those other
> > non-religous nuts that the rest of the song talks about. =A0Why focus
> > just on the religious nuts?
>
> Because more wars, terror, hunger, brutality and sheer intolerance are
> caused in the name of religion.
>
> Abolish the worshipping of all imaginary gods, throw away the novels that
> are bibles, incarcerate the fanatics of all religions and the world will
> become a far richer and safer place - not perfect, but certainly far safe=
r.
>
> Just stop and read the following few words and let your imagination loose
> and see the truth in them.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Imagine there's no Heaven
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 It's easy if you try
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 No hell below us
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Above us only sky
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Imagine all the people
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Living for today
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Imagine there's no countries
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 It isn't hard to do
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Nothing to kill or die for
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 And no religion too
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Imagine all the people
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Living life in peace
>
> But that will never happen, and the world that we live in will be totally
> destroyed sometime in the future because some religious idiots will
> *believe* that their imaginary god is the true one.
>
> And that is the stupidity of religion, as you all seem to believe in the
> same 'god' - you just give that belief different names and kill each othe=
r
> because of it.
>
> Just a question for you to answer:

Why should you give a damn? You try to give weight to a drugged out
hippy millionaire as if he spoke some sort of divine truth. Why not
quote all of John Lennon... you know, just for balance?

>
> Why do christians fight muslims, and why do different religious sects (of
> the same denominations) fight amongst themselves if you all believe that
> there is a single god? =A0For example.
>
> 1 =A0 =A0Catholics against Protestants
>
> 2 =A0 =A0Sunni against Shi'i
>
> Just out of interest.

Naaaaa... you're not interested. You just want more opportunity to
spout your own 'beliefs'.

I'll give you hint: People fight for a LOT of reasons besides
religion: Gold, trade routes, drugs...oil... perpetuating the defense
industries on behalf of your shareholders? (Carlyle Group)

Disbelief wrote:

>
> Just a question for you to answer:
>
> Why do christians fight muslims, and why do different religious sects
> (of the same denominations) fight amongst themselves if you all
> believe that there is a single god? For example.
>
> 1 Catholics against Protestants
>
> 2 Sunni against Shi'i
>
> Just out of interest.

Just a question for you to answer:

Why do you persist in antagonizing people with your rhetoric? You're not
religiously motivated, so it's not the fault of religion - right? Must be
something else at work there I guess... You comment on fighting within
religions, and you post your diatribes about how screwed up Americans are.
Seems to me its not just religions that are capable of bad behavior, as
evidenced by your apparent agnst with others.

You seem to revere the lyrics to Lennon's song, but you also seem to miss
the whole point of what he was saying.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I have talked to God, and he has talked to me. I know this because I know
> that I have talked AT him, and he has answered in many ways, it's just
> that most people do not listen, nor recognize wonderful things that happen
> in their own lives. Anyone who has not heard God speak by looking at a
> field of flowers, a sunset, or a child being born just plain wasn't
> listening.

That's about the stupidest thing I've heard lately. Since you like to
believe in nonsense, how can you say that all of that was not done by Frosty
the Snowman?
Makes as much sense as the "man in the sky" crap.


It
> usually takes a lot to get these people's attention, but finally come
> around when they are nailed down in a foxhole, or in ICU, or have a
> relative that's seriously sick. I wonder why that is .........
>
BTDT. Still know the "man in the sky" idea is bullshit.

On Jan 7, 2:21=A0am, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:

> reply:
>
> I wish you well on your journey.

Thanks very much. Equal sentiment returned.

Yes, I did know.


I also know:

Islam kills more people every year than any other group

Islam is the most intolerant of any of the world's religions (there is a
reason Bethlehem, once a Palestsinian town is now totally Mslim and Iraqi
Muslims are leaviing the country in droves)

Islam is the most bigoted of all the world's people groups (all, repeat ALL
non-Moslims are inferior - per the Koran)

Islam is intellectually deficient, when it did not have to be but chose to
be. (Case in point, the murder of the Pakistani governor for the "crime" of
opposing the blasphemy laws)

Islam is the only religion that condones lying in negotations. (thought
there is, or was, a ten year limit on the length of time you could lie to
him)

So take your crap, put it back where it came from and keep it there.

Deb





jwana wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> Muslims Love Jesus And His Mother
>
>
>
>
> Isa peace be upon him was explicitly mentioned in the Holy Quran on
> sixteen different occasions. On one occasion Allah the Exalted said in
> Surat Al-Maidah verse 110
> ( (remember) when Allah will say( on the day of resurrection )."O
> Isa(Jesus), son of Mariyam(Mary)! Remember my favor to you and to your
> mother when I supported your with ruh -u- qudus [ Jibrail (Gabril)] so
> that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I
> taught you writing, Al Hikmah(the power of understanding), the
> Taurat(Torah) and the Ingil( Gospel); and when you made out of the
> clay, a figure like that of a bird, by my permission, and you breathed
> into it, and it became a bird by my permission, and you healed those
> born blind, and the lepers by my permission, and when you brought
> forth the dead by my permission; and when I restrained the children of
> Israel from you ( when they resolved to kill you) as you came unto
> them with clear proofs and the disbelievers among them said: "This is
> nothing but evident magic" ï´¿ )
> On the other hand Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him was explicitly
> mentioned in the Holy Quran four times While the Virgin Mary (peace be
> upon her) the mother of Jesus(Isa) was mentioned eight times and has a
> complete Sura (chapter) named after her.
> On one occasion Allah the All Mighty said in Surat Al- Imran verse
> 145:
> ( (remember) when the angles said: " Oh Mariyam (Mary)! Verily, Allah
> gives you the glad tidings of a word["Be!"- and he was! i.e.' Isa
> ( Jesus) the son of Mariyam( Mary) ] From him his name will be the
> Messiah 'Isa (Jesus) the son of Mary ( Mariyam), held in honor in this
> world and in the hereafter, and will be one of those who is near to
> Allah.)
> As a family they have been mentioned in the Holy Quran three times and
> they have been privileged by having a complete Sura(chapter) named
> after them(Al Imran). Which is imprinted in the hearts and minds of
> the believers forever>>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP2cbm5zsi0
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20A8tg8ZlJM
>
> for more:
> www.islamtomorrow.com

"David Paste" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Jan 6, 11:27 pm, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:

> And if we all just go back to stardust, no big deal. But then, if
> that occurs, what was life all about, anyway?


You're pulling the collective leg, surely?!

If you can't answer the question, please just say so.

Steve

On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 14:36:24 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:29:12 -0800, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>> I'll give you hint: People fight for a LOT of reasons besides
>>> religion: Gold, trade routes, drugs...oil... perpetuating the
>>> defense industries on behalf of your shareholders? (Carlyle Group)
>>
>> Very true. However those reasons are often cloaked in religion (or
>> nationalism) to make them more palatable to the people who have to do
>> the actual fighting.
>
>Have to disagree with you on this Larry. Pure, old human greed and human
>nature lie at the root of a lot of the evils of the world. BTW - religion
>and nationalism are in no way the same. I think your assujmption that
>religion lies at the root of these, to make them more palatable, cannot be
>substantiated. Increasingly so today, where a religious basis would not be
>a more palatable explanation.
>
>I think more people today tend to blame human nature on religion - to escape
>the mantle of responsibility that human nature might bring upon themselves.
>Distance yourself from religion - you can easily distance yourself from the
>problems that you blame on religion. Ignore the fact that in the first
>order, it is people perpetuating these atrocities, and it becomes easy to
>extend the blame to the second order and put religion at fault. Time to
>step back and look at the people involved and quit looking to cast blame
>outside of those people.

Of course it's the actions of the religious people which are causing
the problems, but religion tends to draw them to it. I still feel
that the world would be better off without organized religions. Then
people would see the scammers for what they truly are, without the
disguise of a cross or book.

As I've said before, people can and do perform acts of kindness
without needing any damned religion to attribute it to.

--
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
-- Victor Borge

jwana wrote:
> Muslims Love Jesus And His Mother
>
>
>

Possibly because they are not among us.

Should Jesus and His mother surface today in a Muslim nation, they would be
classed as dhimmi. Each year the would be required to pay a tax or be
consigned to slavery.

Should Jesus eventually endure the same fate as 2000 years ago, the
centurian whose spear ultimately causes His death would have to pay only 1/2
the amount as a fine that would be required had that centurian killed a
Muslim.

"David Paste" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:f9049d4f-abec-4945-aa4f-047edbb67561@c39g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 7, 2:21 am, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:

> reply:
>
> I wish you well on your journey.

Thanks very much. Equal sentiment returned.

Trouble is that we can never tell others which one was right ............
We just put our money on our horse, and the instant its nose touches the
line, we're out of here.

Steve

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 12:17:03 -0800, jwana wrote:

> Welcome ...
>
> No .. Islam is not, as they say ..
>

Do you mean that blasphemy is not a crime in Pakistan?

Do you mean that converting from Islam to another religion is not a crime
in several Muslim countries?

Do you dispute the following statement from Wikipedia?

"As an example of the distinctions between Muslims, dhimmis, and others,
sharia law in present-day Saudi Arabia prescribes blood money to be paid
for the death of a person caused by another. The amount payable for a
Christian or Jew is half that for a male Muslim; but all others are
valued at 1/16th."

If so, prove it - otherwise shut up.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

jwana wrote:
> Muslims Love Jesus And His Mother
>
>
>
> Religious rubbish snipped<

And replaced by the words of John Lennon's "Imagine"

Now if *ALL* religious nuts (and particularly Islamist who follow the most
violent of religions) recanted and followed the words of the late and great
John Lennon - the world would be a far, far better place.

Unashamedly copied here

==================================


Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

============================

And the irony is that he was murdered by and American from the so-called
nation of peace.

Tim W wrote:
> "Disbelief" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> ... John Lennon...>
>> And the irony is that he was murdered by and American from the
>> so-called nation of peace.
>>
>
> Nobody has ever called America a 'Nation of Peace' have they?
>
> Tim W

Well many Americans believe that bullshit along with the "land of the free"
etc - after all, it is "brainwashed" into them from a very young age, along
with the thinking that America is actually "the world" and nothing exists
beyond its shores.

When Americans finally wake up to the fact that they are not the only
residents on this planet, the may well become a half-way decent nation -
let's hope that's not too far in the future.

Good night.

Steve B wrote:
> Did you know that answering a Mooslim troll makes you look stoopid?
> ..............................

Did you know that poor snipping makes you look even more "stoopid"?

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Disbelief wrote:
>> jwana wrote:
>>> Muslims Love Jesus And His Mother
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Religious rubbish snipped<
>>
>> And replaced by the words of John Lennon's "Imagine"
>>
>> Now if *ALL* religious nuts (and particularly Islamist who follow the
>> most violent of religions) recanted and followed the words of the
>> late and great John Lennon - the world would be a far, far better
>> place.
>
> No it wouldn't. Not until you got rid of all of those other
> non-religous nuts that the rest of the song talks about. Why focus
> just on the religious nuts?

Because more wars, terror, hunger, brutality and sheer intolerance are
caused in the name of religion.

Abolish the worshipping of all imaginary gods, throw away the novels that
are bibles, incarcerate the fanatics of all religions and the world will
become a far richer and safer place - not perfect, but certainly far safer.

Just stop and read the following few words and let your imagination loose
and see the truth in them.

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

But that will never happen, and the world that we live in will be totally
destroyed sometime in the future because some religious idiots will
*believe* that their imaginary god is the true one.

And that is the stupidity of religion, as you all seem to believe in the
same 'god' - you just give that belief different names and kill each other
because of it.

Just a question for you to answer:

Why do christians fight muslims, and why do different religious sects (of
the same denominations) fight amongst themselves if you all believe that
there is a single god? For example.

1 Catholics against Protestants

2 Sunni against Shi'i

Just out of interest.

On 1/6/2011 10:57 AM, Josepi wrote:
> The mixed posting makes it even harder though.
>
> Your message was bottom posted but the clarification reference text was top
> posted....LOL

So says the fucking idiot who is by FAR the worst offender I've ever seen for
botching the normal flow of a conversation. Hypocrite.

--
A. Because it makes the discussion harder to read.
Q. Why should I not top-post?
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:29:12 -0800, Robatoy wrote:

> I'll give you hint: People fight for a LOT of reasons besides religion:
> Gold, trade routes, drugs...oil... perpetuating the defense industries
> on behalf of your shareholders? (Carlyle Group)

Very true. However those reasons are often cloaked in religion (or
nationalism) to make them more palatable to the people who have to do the
actual fighting.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 07:33:53 -0800, Steve B wrote:

> I have talked to God, and he has talked to me. I know this because I
> know that I have talked AT him, and he has answered in many ways, it's
> just that most people do not listen, nor recognize wonderful things that
> happen in their own lives.

Sigh. Some people have real trouble with the concept that there is no
proof of anyone's version of a supernatural entity so they make up their
own "proof".

Ever hear of patternicity? Read this short article:

<http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=patternicity-finding-
meaningful-patterns>

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:

>Of course it's the actions of the religious people which are causing
>the problems, but religion tends to draw them to it. I still feel
>that the world would be better off without organized religions. Then
>people would see the scammers for what they truly are, without the
>disguise of a cross or book.

It's pretty plain that the followers of Karl Marx have caused far more harm
than the followers of Jesus or Mohammed, either separately or combined.
>
>As I've said before, people can and do perform acts of kindness
>without needing any damned religion to attribute it to.

And they can and do perform acts of unspeakable evil as well; history shows
that far more and far worse evils are committed without the guidance of
religion than are perpetrated in its name.

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 05:44:12 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

> Missionaries through the years are almost all Christian. I guess the
> Muslims are now doing that, too.

Good point Larry - I can't remember any unbelievers knocking on my door
to convert me :-).

The Muslim missionaries have traditionally carried swords :-).

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:27:54 -0800, Steve B wrote:

> But then, if that occurs, what was
> life all about, anyway?
>
>
> Macbeth:
> To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow, Creeps in this petty pace
> from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time; And all our
> yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief
> candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and
> frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale
> Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

I think your quote answered your question - nothing :-).


--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 23:23:13 -0600, HeyBub wrote:

> In religion, morality is absolute,
> being handed down by God.

And therein lies the problem. Those who believe such are capable of
falling into fanaticism. Or does "jihad" or "crusade" mean nothing to
you. Or how about "this land is mine because my God gave it to me and
I'll kill anyone who tries to take it away"?

I don't object to peoples beliefs because I want to convert them to
mine. I object because I believe religion can be carried to extremes and
is thus a danger to society. And I try as much as I can to rely on facts
and not opinions (i.e. beliefs).

BTW, I have no idea whether the universe was created or not. Considering
the current state of physics, I wonder if that's even a valid question.
The very concept of "exists" seems to be getting a bit fuzzy.

I have, however, noted that those who believe it was created have about
20 different versions of who/what the creator(s) are and what we must do
to stay in their favor. That makes me suspect that none of them know
what they're talking about :-).

And as someone else pointed out, this is a waste of time because nobody
ever questions their beliefs - they will blithely ignore any facts that
contradict said beliefs. So I'm going to drop the subject. I apologize
to any I've offended for entering the discussion in the first place.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

In article <[email protected]>,
HeyBub <[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
<<...snipped...>>
>
>er, no. Crosses are a universal symbol for death. They are, for example,
>used in medical reports. And even if crosses were meant to be religious,
>they only symbolize the faith of the deceased.
>
I would differ based on this dialog:

FATHER CORONA: Pax venuti nictum! Down on your knees, now! D'ye recognize
what I'm holdin' over yer head, lads?
INDIAN: It's a Cross. The Symbol of the Quartering of the Universe
into Active and Passive Principles.
FATHER CORONA: God have mercy on their heathen souls!
CONQUISTADOR: What the Father means is - what is the Cross made of?
Gold! Have you got any?
INDIAN: No.
CONQUISTADOR: What about the Seven Cities of Gold? Phoenix, Tucson,
Las Vegas?
SECOND INDIAN: This is gold.
CONQUISTADOR: What's that?
INDIAN: Corn.
SPANISH SOLDIER: Corn! Now we can make tortillas!
ANOTHER SPANISH SOLDIER: We've been waiting for this for hundreds of years!
THIRD SPANISH SOLDIER: I just invented tacos!
CONQUISTADOR: So this is all you've got?
INDIAN: Yes, but aren't you The True White Brother who's supposed to
come and live with us in peace?
CONQUISTADOR: Sure! Therefore, I claim this rich, verdant pasture land
in the name of the Empire of Spain!

etc. etc. courtesy of and credit to FST.


--
Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

Only by the way USanians count. Most other places in the world it be 0.012
billion.


"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
RE: Subject

There are more than 1 billion Chinese people in the world.

Lew

"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 07:33:53 -0800, Steve B wrote:
>
>> I have talked to God, and he has talked to me. I know this because I
>> know that I have talked AT him, and he has answered in many ways, it's
>> just that most people do not listen, nor recognize wonderful things that
>> happen in their own lives.
>
> Sigh. Some people have real trouble with the concept that there is no
> proof of anyone's version of a supernatural entity so they make up their
> own "proof".
>
> Ever hear of patternicity? Read this short article:
>
> <http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=patternicity-finding-
> meaningful-patterns>
>
> --
> Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw


sigh ........... "some people" don't understand that personal beliefs are
just that. To each his own. And IF there ever occurs a day of
accountability, each MAY have to explain what they did. And if we all just
go back to stardust, no big deal. But then, if that occurs, what was life
all about, anyway?


Macbeth:
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.


Macbeth Act 5, scene 5, 19-28

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 23:23:13 -0600, HeyBub wrote:
>
>> In religion, morality is absolute,
>> being handed down by God.
>
> And therein lies the problem. Those who believe such are capable of
> falling into fanaticism. Or does "jihad" or "crusade" mean nothing to
> you. Or how about "this land is mine because my God gave it to me and
> I'll kill anyone who tries to take it away"?
>

I think (and I'm definitely in a minority here) that Jihad - mayhem paradigm
is confusing the cause and effect. In my view, there are people who just
like to kill others and blow things up. They then use religion as an excuse
to engage in their hobby.

Fortunately, the jihadists give our American warriors an excuse to kill
people and blow things up.

If it weren't for the jihadists, OUR warriors would have to invade Samoa to
satisfy their needs.

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 20:43:29 -0700, Doug Winterburn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 01/06/2011 07:14 PM, David Paste wrote:
>> On Jan 6, 9:46 am, Stuart<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Try telling that to all those who suffered under Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Pol
>>> Pot, Stalin and other Russian Dictators, and a hundred others in countries
>>> round the world.
>>
>> Bogus argument - simply one fascism replaced by another.
>>
>>> I have friends in what used to be East Germany, they have some harrowing
>>> tales to tell of what happens in a country with no religious moral code to
>>> restrain it's leadership.
>>
>> That's just offensive. I am not religious, and I have no problems in
>> judging what is right or wrong, ethically, in any given situation. My
>> ONE big advantage over the religious people out there is that I will
>> NEVER be compelled to act on the false premise that it is what is
>> simply done through inculcated routine, no matter what that action may
>> be.
>>
>> Also: Read the bible and tell me if you /really/ want religious 'moral
>> codes' governing your life. Hell's bells, man! I'm even wearing two
>> different fibres as I type! Had a prawn mayo butty for dinner!
>>
>> Religion's 'moral codes' are simply a collection of the society's
>> 'moral codes' of the time and place they were codified, and
>> unfortunately for all, the religious zealots do their best to keep
>> these rules rather than letting them change or disappear as that
>> society's collective intellect grows. I am not that cognitively
>> stunted, thanks very much.
>>
>> Religious moral code indeed! Pah! Religion is a perfect system for the
>> maniacal to thrive.
>>
>> As the late Bob Marley sang: "Emancipate yourselves from mental
>> slavery; None but ourselves can free our mind"
>>
>> YEAH BABY!
>
>Hmmmm, I wonder why the western world's legal/judicial system is based
>on the ten commandments?

Ever wonder why there are nearly FIFTY THOUSAND laws enforcing said 15
(<CRASH> Damnit!) 10 Commandments?

--
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
-- Victor Borge

Did you know that answering a Mooslim troll makes you look stoopid?
..............................

Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> Crosses and other roadside memorial crap are religious. Religious
> folks just don't get that. Stop pushing it. How many athiestic or
> agnostic symbols do you see on the side of the road, Steve? I'll bet
> you can't even point to one.
>

Er, no. Crosses are a universal symbol for death. They are, for example,
used in medical reports. And even if crosses were meant to be religious,
they only symbolize the faith of the deceased.

Would you remove the crosses (and a few Stars of David) from Arlington
National Cemetery?

As for agnostic or atheistic symbols on the side of the road, there are
several in front of my house.

You just can't see them.

But, like a good atheist, one can pretend.

"David Paste" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:64fa7668-9bb8-4160-8ace-bc2177425dbd@i18g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 6, 9:46 am, Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:

> Try telling that to all those who suffered under Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Pol
> Pot, Stalin and other Russian Dictators, and a hundred others in countries
> round the world.

Bogus argument - simply one fascism replaced by another.

> I have friends in what used to be East Germany, they have some harrowing
> tales to tell of what happens in a country with no religious moral code to
> restrain it's leadership.

That's just offensive. I am not religious, and I have no problems in
judging what is right or wrong, ethically, in any given situation. My
ONE big advantage over the religious people out there is that I will
NEVER be compelled to act on the false premise that it is what is
simply done through inculcated routine, no matter what that action may
be.

Also: Read the bible and tell me if you /really/ want religious 'moral
codes' governing your life. Hell's bells, man! I'm even wearing two
different fibres as I type! Had a prawn mayo butty for dinner!

Religion's 'moral codes' are simply a collection of the society's
'moral codes' of the time and place they were codified, and
unfortunately for all, the religious zealots do their best to keep
these rules rather than letting them change or disappear as that
society's collective intellect grows. I am not that cognitively
stunted, thanks very much.

Religious moral code indeed! Pah! Religion is a perfect system for the
maniacal to thrive.

As the late Bob Marley sang: "Emancipate yourselves from mental
slavery; None but ourselves can free our mind"

YEAH BABY!

reply:

I wish you well on your journey.

>>Of course it's the actions of the religious people which are causing
>>the problems, but religion tends to draw them to it. I still feel
>>that the world would be better off without organized religions. Then
>>people would see the scammers for what they truly are, without the
>>disguise of a cross or book.

The playing field needs to be leveled.

Why is it that people who are against religion must enforce their "beliefs",
which atheism is, on others, and then get their shorts in a wad whenever
someone wants to exhibit or demonstrate their "beliefs"?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700058122/Judges-rule-against-Utah-highway-crosses-for-fallen-troopers.html

The "judicial" system has ruled against the people who put up and maintain
fourteen white roadside crosses that honor highway patrolmen who lost their
lives serving the public. There is no "religion" involved in this, just
honoring fallen public servants.

So, help me understand why one man's beliefs are more important than
another's, especially when it involves something that is not religious in
nature? Especially when in involves one person being legally able to shove
his belief or lack of it down another's throat.

Steve

"Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Yes, I did know.
>
>
> I also know:
>
> Islam kills more people every year than any other group
>
> Islam is the most intolerant of any of the world's religions (there is a
> reason Bethlehem, once a Palestsinian town is now totally Mslim and Iraqi
> Muslims are leaviing the country in droves)
>
> Islam is the most bigoted of all the world's people groups (all, repeat
> ALL
> non-Moslims are inferior - per the Koran)
>
> Islam is intellectually deficient, when it did not have to be but chose to
> be. (Case in point, the murder of the Pakistani governor for the "crime"
> of
> opposing the blasphemy laws)
>
> Islam is the only religion that condones lying in negotations. (thought
> there is, or was, a ten year limit on the length of time you could lie to
> him)
>
> So take your crap, put it back where it came from and keep it there.
>
> Deb
>
Religion is proof that people don't grow up, they just get larger. "My fairy
tale is better than your fairy tail and if you don't believe it I'll kill
you". How stupid is that? If you insist on killing people, at least do it
over something that actually exists.

The mixed posting makes it even harder though.

Your message was bottom posted but the clarification reference text was top
posted....LOL


"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

"Disbelief" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steve B wrote:
>> Did you know that answering a Mooslim troll makes you look stoopid?
>> ..............................
>
> Did you know that poor snipping makes you look even more "stoopid"?

No, posting the whole thing again, or posting it after the discussion has
been going on for a while makes one look stoopid.

I believe everyone knows what I was referring to.

But, in case you don't, this is just for you:

jwana wrote:

Muslims Love Jesus And His Mother

"David Paste" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Jan 8, 4:37 am, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "David Paste" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> On Jan 6, 11:27 pm, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > And if we all just go back to stardust, no big deal. But then, if
> > that occurs, what was life all about, anyway?
>
> You're pulling the collective leg, surely?!
>
> If you can't answer the question, please just say so.
>
> Steve

OK, well, I'll bite. The purpose of life is to continue life.

reply:

I ........... KNEW ........... that if I stayed around long enough and read
enough of your spew that you would EVENTUALLY say something that made sense.

Kinda like the room full of monkeys and typewriters thing .............

Steve

"willshak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> jwana wrote the following:
>
> drivel snipped.
>
>
> All religion is man made by people who stated they talked with God.
> They're still around today but they have television shows now.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bill

I have talked to God, and he has talked to me. I know this because I know
that I have talked AT him, and he has answered in many ways, it's just that
most people do not listen, nor recognize wonderful things that happen in
their own lives. Anyone who has not heard God speak by looking at a field
of flowers, a sunset, or a child being born just plain wasn't listening. It
usually takes a lot to get these people's attention, but finally come around
when they are nailed down in a foxhole, or in ICU, or have a relative that's
seriously sick. I wonder why that is .........

Steve

David Paste wrote:
> On Jan 7, 5:23 am, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> You misunderstand religious teaching AND ethics.
>
> No, I think you do.
>
>> "Right" or "wrong" is not determined by "any given situation."
>
> Actually, in almost all situations, it is.

Study ethics. Socrates posited "self-knowledge;" Aristotle promoted
"self-realization." The Hedonist camp, instituted by Aristippus and the
Epicurians contrasted pleasure and pain. The Stoics preached contentment.
These, and others, were ancient philosophies of ethics. Modern systems of
ethics include Maxism, Humanism, Anti-Humanism, and more.

The point is, in the study and application of ethics, there exist systems by
which proper action or reaction is deemed appropriate. In a truly ethical
person, by whatever discipline of ethics he adopts, his actions are not ad
hoc, but are directed by a coherent collection of rules.

>
>> In religion, morality is absolute, being handed down by God.
>
> And this is the fundamental problem - it doesn't flex with the growth
> of society's intellectual development.

No, that's not true either. Jews harken to the notion given by Moses "If a
matter comes before you that is too hard for you to judge, take it to the
sages of the generation and be bound accordingly." In the Catholic
tradition, interpretation of new situations is vested with the Church as an
institution. In the non-Catholic tradition, the individual is guided by the
Holy Spirit. I'm not sure how the Mohammadens handle things.

Point is, no religion is hide-bound and immune to change. The authority and
methodology for handling new situations is codified somewhere.

>
>> Totally false understanding of the Bible. The injunction against
>> mixing fibers, or meat with milk, or not eating pork, and so on, are
>> binding only on the Jews. If you, as a Goyim, want to do those
>> thing, go right ahead. God won't mind.
>
> Ah! Well, there's always a get out clause! And here's me thinking that
> the new testament is build from the guidelines of the old! Sorry, I'll
> recant my statement. Does this mean that we can ignore the old
> testament then? Or can we just ignore the bits which don't agree with
> your current 'absolute' interpretation?

For Christians, yes. Christians may ignore all the 613 commandments of the
Old Testament. For example, the first commandment, "Be fruitful and
multiply," has been superseded by rules governing the Catholic clergy or "If
a man lie with a man as he would with a woman, that man shall surely be put
to death."

>
> The WHOLE of the bible is a guideline - this has been repeated to me
> over and over again by practitioners (preists, vicars and the like) of
> many different christian denominations. It is the loons who bugger up
> THIS message. Never trust a zealot! Especially a zealot who tells you
> that a particular book is A-OK for 'moral absolutes' even if it
> actively discriminates against Jews and Non Jews. Sounds like a big
> bag of nonsense to me!

Virtually all Christian denominations do, as you suggest, treat the Hebrew
scriptures as guidelines or "good teaching." It is not possible for a
believing Christian to accept the Old Testament as binding.

When the Jews got organized (and the Muslims), there was no secular law. The
religious law, therefore, had to deal with every facet of life (inheritance,
assault, making war, planting beans, weights & measures in commerce,
boundary disputes, ad infinitum). The Christian faith got its start under
the auspices of the Roman Empire. The Romans had all that stuff under
control, so the Christians didn't have to mess with the messy parts. For
example, there is no Christian rule on murder!

Whether the U.S. should accept the Metric System is just not a topic for a
Sunday sermon.

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Steve B" wrote:
>
>> I have talked to God, and he has talked to me.
> --------------------------------
> Need to talk about some desert land in SW Florida.
>
> Lew

If that's what you believe, so be it.

Steve