My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. To work on anything I have to
pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration of the
project or putting everything away every evening. Leaving the cars out
makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter (Michigan). With both
cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just getting in & out of the cars
- there's no room for making sawdust. And there's the whole issue of snow,
salt, water, mud etc getting all over everything.
For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria for a
new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large' workshop or
enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large garden and some
fruit trees). One house we've looked at has a huge outbuilding, but my wife
thinks the house is too big. She's fallen in love with another one which
has no workspace, but with the possibility of building an outbuilding.
How big a workshop would you recommend? How much room is needed around a
table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and find
that it's still not big enough.
I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
needed. I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have all my own
fingers), but would like to become better.
I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a stand, a
10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand tools). I plan on
upgrading the table saw to either a nice contractor's saw or a hybrid
shortly after we move into the new house and getting rid of the old tablesaw
(one of our kids wants it, along with one of the lathes). I eventually want
to add a drill press, a bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust
collection. Dust collection is currently either a shop vac and/or an open
garage door, depending on the weather. I'd also like room to store wood, do
assembly, finish, etc.
If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model) that
wouldn't be amiss, either.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
al
--
Al Dunstan, Software Engineer
OptiMetrics, Inc.
3115 Professional Drive
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-5131
"There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make
it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other way
is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
- C. A. R. Hoare
On 1/15/2011 12:37 AM, Upscale wrote:
> Expanded Poly(tetrafluoroethylene)(ePTFE) And no, it's not the usual type of
> insulating foam.
I use a blue insulating 3/4x4x8 foam sheeting by RMax called R-Matte-3
($10/sht +/-)
This one has had about 30 sheets cut on it and is still going strong.
The saw is set to cut about 1mm into the foam insulation. It also helps
a bit with mitigating splinter/tearout on good-side-down cutting with
some materials:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/RMaxCutSheet.jpg
Leon has a cool breakdown, 2 x 4, cutting table that fits on folding saw
horses he designed and built that we also put the foam sheet on when
cutting, although like Han's rough cut table, it is not necessary.
I'll let him toot his horn on that if he wants.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 1/14/2011 5:40 PM, A. W. Dunstan wrote:
> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. To work on anything I have to
> pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration of the
> project or putting everything away every evening. Leaving the cars out
> makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter (Michigan). With both
> cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just getting in& out of the cars
> - there's no room for making sawdust. And there's the whole issue of snow,
> salt, water, mud etc getting all over everything.
>
> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria for a
> new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large' workshop or
> enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large garden and some
> fruit trees). One house we've looked at has a huge outbuilding, but my wife
> thinks the house is too big. She's fallen in love with another one which
> has no workspace, but with the possibility of building an outbuilding.
>
> How big a workshop would you recommend? How much room is needed around a
> table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
>
> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and find
> that it's still not big enough.
>
> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
> needed. I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have all my own
> fingers), but would like to become better.
>
> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a stand, a
> 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand tools). I plan on
> upgrading the table saw to either a nice contractor's saw or a hybrid
> shortly after we move into the new house and getting rid of the old tablesaw
> (one of our kids wants it, along with one of the lathes). I eventually want
> to add a drill press, a bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust
> collection. Dust collection is currently either a shop vac and/or an open
> garage door, depending on the weather. I'd also like room to store wood, do
> assembly, finish, etc.
>
> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model) that
> wouldn't be amiss, either.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!
>
> al
Al,
Visit Swingman's web site for inspiration. Also check out "Creating Your
Own Woodshop" by Charlie Self.
Enjoy designing and using your new shop!
Neil
I have applied about 5000 sq. ft. of that stuff to my home...it makes a mess
if cut into sawdust! My house was all pink for almost a year! LOL
I used a utility knife mostly and avoided that mostly but a sawblade would
make a hard to clean mess.
I would take this is the usual insulating type of foam. i.e. Styrofoam SM or
SIS?? Blue, yellow or pink, depending on brand.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Different type of foam. Not the peanut type, but the flexible open pore
type. It often comes in blue or yellow.
"Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Good idea but isn't that foam become a hell of a mess that is hard to
> clean
> up with all the static it generates?
"Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Good idea but isn't that foam become a hell of a mess that is hard to
> clean
> up with all the static it generates?
Different type of foam. Not the peanut type, but the flexible open pore
type. It often comes in blue or yellow.
On Jan 14, 4:40=A0pm, "A. W. Dunstan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. =A0To work on anything I have =
to
> pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration of th=
e
> project or putting everything away every evening. =A0Leaving the cars out
> makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter (Michigan). =A0With bo=
th
> cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just getting in & out of the c=
ars
> - there's no room for making sawdust. =A0And there's the whole issue of s=
now,
> salt, water, mud etc getting all over everything.
>
> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria for a
> new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large' workshop or
> enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large garden and some
> fruit trees). =A0One house we've looked at has a huge outbuilding, but my=
wife
> thinks the house is too big. =A0She's fallen in love with another one whi=
ch
> has no workspace, but with the possibility of building an outbuilding.
>
> How big a workshop would you recommend? =A0How much room is needed around=
a
> table saw? =A0a drill press? =A0a bandsaw?
>
> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and find
> that it's still not big enough.
>
> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
> needed. =A0I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have all m=
y own
> fingers), but would like to become better.
>
> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a stand,=
a
> 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand tools). =A0I pla=
n on
> upgrading the table saw to either a nice contractor's saw or a hybrid
> shortly after we move into the new house and getting rid of the old table=
saw
> (one of our kids wants it, along with one of the lathes). =A0I eventually=
want
> to add a drill press, a bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust
> collection. =A0Dust collection is currently either a shop vac and/or an o=
pen
> garage door, depending on the weather. =A0I'd also like room to store woo=
d, do
> assembly, finish, etc.
>
> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model) that
> wouldn't be amiss, either.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!
>
> al
> --
> Al Dunstan, Software Engineer
> OptiMetrics, Inc.
> 3115 Professional Drive
> Ann Arbor, MI =A048104-5131
>
> "There are two ways of constructing a software design. =A0One way is to m=
ake
> it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. =A0And the other w=
ay
> is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - C. A. R. Hoare
We just built a house two years ago and I sized the garage for a shop.
- 32' x32' Just over 1,000 square ft.
- Two, 9' Garage doors as opposed to the standard one small/one large
door configuration (large doors rob wall space)
- Garage doors are spaced 3' apart with provides for a 4-5' vehicle
spacing. This allows placing floor tools and compressor between cars.
- Garage doors are centered on the 32' front allowing about 5' on
either side of the door for tools, storage racks, etc.
RonB
> One of my annoyances with my set up is there's no dust free area for
> finishing. If I paint or poly, I can't do anything for several hours to
> prevent messing up the finish. One of these days, I might build a little
> booth (say 8x8 or 10x10) to keep the dust out so as one project is drying
> I can start work on another. I wonder how hard it would be to make one
> that could be assembled and disassembled with only one person?
I built a spray area out of canvas type drop cloths. I staple them to the
rafter, and staple a 2 x 4 to the bottom of them to hold tension on them and
seal against the floor. A door can be made by overlapping two sections by a
couple feet and using a separate 2 x for that part on one of the double
layers. That can be a bother, and I have just been redoing my area by taking
an old door, making a frame out of lumber that I can attach my cloth walls
to, so I can go in and out through a real door. It is nicer, but more
expensive, and takes a little more room.
One thing nobody has mentioned is the problem of paint, or other finishes or
glues odors getting into the house from a basement or attached garage
workshop. It is a huge problem for me, since hydrocarbons are a trigger for
migraine headaches for my wife. I solved the problem by making a finish
area in one corner, and use a furnace blower to pull a little negative
pressure in the finish area. No smell can go against the flow of air to
make it into the house, as long as the blower keeps running. I put it in a
wooden box on wheels, and plumb it to the spray area by using a 12 inch
flexible furnace duct going though a removable panel with a hole in the
garage door. Works great. I can spray anything I want and let it dry, and
she never smells the first hint. Be sure to use a squirrel cage blower,
because fans do not create enough pressure differential, unless they are
really screaming.
The same can work for a finish area, but there can be a variation or two.
You can push fresh outside air into the area through a filter to keep
outside dust out of the room, and keep dust from the shop forced out of the
area, or you can pull a negative pressure in the area, as long as everything
seals pretty good in the shop to spray area. You then make a restricted air
intake from the shop to the finish area by using a couple hyper allergenic
furnace filters so no woodworking dust gets into the finish area. This has
the advantage of being heated or cooled air, if the rest of the shop has
those things for it's air.
When you don't need the finish area, roll up the cloths to the ceiling and
secure them with some light ropes like furling sails, or some pinch clamps
to hold the roll together.
--
Jim in NC
RE: Subject
It's "Paper Doll" Time.
AKA: Plant layout using graphical techniques.
Using a pair of scissors and quad paper , cut out scale rectangles
including clear space around the tool for each item.
Arrange rectangles as req'd to provide good work flow.
The above dictates the req'd shop size.
Basic plant engineering layout design technique before computers.
Still works.
Lew
"basilisk" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I have never seen a home, commercial, or industrial shop that was too big,
> make it as big as the pocketbook will allow and add 50%, it will hurt but
> in the end it will be worth the pinch.
>
Agreed.
I have worked in many shops and have had a few of my own. I never had enough
space. In fact, on my last house, I extended the garage several feet on one
side to add more space.
I also used to build gym equipment and set up a lot of gyms. Same thing
there. The gym (shop) was determined by how much space was available. Space
is the ultimate luxury. With enough space, you can do almost anything.
And think ceiling height. With both shops and gyms, anything less than ten
feet introduces all kinds of compromises.
The more space the better. Trying to use a small space for many different
things means spending lots of time moving things around. Being able to
dedicate a certain space for a particular function is really nice. Not only
is it a time saver, but it makes everything you do more enjoyable.
Build the biggest space possible. And remember, any shop is always in some
sort of transition. You make changes, build jigs, buy tools, experiment with
different finishes, etc., etc. Whatever you plan is just a starting point.
You can always add to it later. Particularly if you have enough space.
And all your friends will envy you!!
I wrote:
> RE: Subject
>
> It's "Paper Doll" Time.
>
> AKA: Plant layout using graphical techniques.
>
> Using a pair of scissors and quad paper , cut out scale rectangles
> including clear space around the tool for each item.
>
> Arrange rectangles as req'd to provide good work flow.
>
> The above dictates the req'd shop size.
>
> Basic plant engineering layout design technique before computers.
>
> Still works.
-------------------------------------
Two things come to mind.
If you are going to work with furniture or cabinets, most stock will
be 60" or less in length.
Biggest space hog will be for breaking down 48" x 96" sheets of ply.
Suggest building a 48x96 table covered with a replaceable melamine top
This table serves the following purposes.
1) Runout table for table saw.
2) Add a 2" thick lift off foam sheet.and use it with a circular saw
to break down ply sheets.
3) A glue up station.
Equip with lift up casters to aid moving as req'd.
(Norm built a neat one, check NYW.)
BTW, no matter what size shop you think you need, double it<G>
Have fun.
Lew
A. W. Dunstan wrote:
> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria
> for a new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large'
> workshop or enough land on which to build one
I would opt for building one. Even if it is pre-fab steel.
Even if you built a garage to house all your cars *PLUS* space for a
generously sized shop area, one is going to get overflow from the other.
Best to have areas dedicated to one function, IMO.
____________________
> How big a workshop would you recommend?
Mine is 20 x 28. Works OK but could be bigger. Play with this...
http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx
I did and wound up with this
http://mysite.verizon.net/xico/pix/shop.jpg
Everything on the left side except for the lathe are on castors as are the
router table and drum sander.
The grid is 2' x 2' and things are pretty accurately sized except for the
depth of the upper cabinets; they are 12-13" deep.
___________________
> How much room is needed
> around a table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
Depends on what you are machining. A table saw needs at least 8' in both
front and back; width sufficent for what you are cutting plus room to get
around it. Same for a BS but it can be on a castor base, stored against a
wall and pulled out into an aisle when being used. Ditto DP.
______________________
> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and
> find that it's still not big enough.
One of the biggest suckers up of space is storing material. And jigs. Give
*LOTS* of thought to that. And to electrical outlets...one every 4-5 feet
is not overkill; and put them at counter height.
______________________
> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a
> stand, a 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand
> tools). I plan on upgrading the table saw to either a nice
> contractor's saw or a hybrid shortly after we move into the new house
> and getting rid of the old tablesaw (one of our kids wants it, along
> with one of the lathes). I eventually want to add a drill press, a
> bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust collection. Dust
> collection is currently either a shop vac and/or an open garage door,
> depending on the weather. I'd also like room to store wood, do
> assembly, finish, etc.
I use the area on the jpg of my shop where the roll around tables are for
assembly and finishing. If I were spraying often I'd want an area just for
that. I do have a protected but not roofed area outside the shop that I
sometimes use now.
______________________
> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model)
> that wouldn't be amiss, either.
The two tools I could live without if I had to are my joiner and the drill
press. I joined edges for a long time on a router table. The DP gets
little use but is handy when I need it.
My most used tools are the cabinet saw and the drum sander. I use the
latter constantly to plane and size rough lumber; it is somewhat slower than
a thickness planer but there is never any tear out or knife marks either.
For me, it pretty much replaces both a planer and joiner. The ability to
sand up to 32" wide is not to be sneezed at either.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
*snip*
>
> One of the biggest suckers up of space is storing material. And jigs.
> Give *LOTS* of thought to that. And to electrical outlets...one every
> 4-5 feet is not overkill; and put them at counter height.
*snip*
I like the idea of having some nice and low (traditional height 12-14")
and a whole bunch more at countertop height. That's how my garage is set
up in places, and it's nice when I need an extension cord run semi-
permanently because I don't lose 3' running up the wall.
I'd also suggest having some at least 52" high. Don't put them at 48",
you need the extra height for getting over stored sheet goods and shelves
that you decide to build at 48"... and then measure the switch height.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.
"A. W. Dunstan" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. To work on anything I have
> to pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration
> of the project or putting everything away every evening. Leaving the
> cars out makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter
> (Michigan). With both cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just
> getting in & out of the cars - there's no room for making sawdust.
> And there's the whole issue of snow, salt, water, mud etc getting all
> over everything.
>
> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria
> for a new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large'
> workshop or enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large
> garden and some fruit trees). One house we've looked at has a huge
> outbuilding, but my wife thinks the house is too big. She's fallen in
> love with another one which has no workspace, but with the possibility
> of building an outbuilding.
>
> How big a workshop would you recommend? How much room is needed
> around a table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
>
> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and
> find that it's still not big enough.
>
> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
> needed. I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have all
> my own fingers), but would like to become better.
>
> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a
> stand, a 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand
> tools). I plan on upgrading the table saw to either a nice
> contractor's saw or a hybrid shortly after we move into the new house
> and getting rid of the old tablesaw (one of our kids wants it, along
> with one of the lathes). I eventually want to add a drill press, a
> bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust collection. Dust
> collection is currently either a shop vac and/or an open garage door,
> depending on the weather. I'd also like room to store wood, do
> assembly, finish, etc.
>
> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model)
> that wouldn't be amiss, either.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!
>
> al
When considering tools, consider their infeed and outfeed requirements.
To cut a 8' sheet on the table saw, you need 8' in front of the saw and
8' behind it. One of the things I did laying out my shop was determine
those spaces and put them in as part of the plan.
Dust collection and air compressors are loud noisy things I'd suggest
putting behind a partition wall if possible. A big cyclone dust
collector would be a good thing to have for a permanent shop.
If building, build a small building close to the house for the trash and
miscellaneous garden tool storage. It can be part of the garage, if need
be. Build your shop farther out. You'll be happy to walk out to the
shop in the snow, but the rest of your family won't be as happy to walk
past your shop to get to the snow shovel or garbage can.
One of my annoyances with my set up is there's no dust free area for
finishing. If I paint or poly, I can't do anything for several hours to
prevent messing up the finish. One of these days, I might build a little
booth (say 8x8 or 10x10) to keep the dust out so as one project is drying
I can start work on another. I wonder how hard it would be to make one
that could be assembled and disassembled with only one person?
Size wise, there's usually no such thing as too much space. My shop fits
into a space about 25x30, but the storage is a little disorganized and
there's a bunch of other stuff on the other side of the garage. (See
garden tool comment above.)
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.
Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> Puckdropper wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> One of my annoyances with my set up is there's no dust free area for
>> finishing. If I paint or poly, I can't do anything for several hours
>> to prevent messing up the finish. One of these days, I might build a
>> little booth (say 8x8 or 10x10) to keep the dust out so as one
>> project is drying I can start work on another. I wonder how hard it
>> would be to make one that could be assembled and disassembled with
>> only one person?
>
> For me, this is interesting question in itself. Has it got a standard
> answer? I would (like to) envision temporary "walls" created with the
> equivalent of a shower curtain, except it would, I suppose, need to
> reach to the ceiling and the floor. Basically a dust-free (and
> bug-free) zone.
>
> Bill
>
>
I was thinking about something similar to house walls, 2x4 construction
with studs every so many inches and maybe 1/2" plywood or something
lighter on the walls. For something designed to be taken down after use,
plastic sheeting just wouldn't hold up.
If I used screws or bolts through the top and bottom plate, then the
whole thing could be stored as a compact pile of around a dozen 2x4s when
not in use. Sheets or blankets could then be draped over the structure
to keep the dust out. The seal doesn't need to be 100%, just enough to
keep the sawdust from settling on the workpiece.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.
Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> Since you are just trying to keep out dust, a dozen 2x4s seems like
> real overkill. Maybe if a few hooks were attached to the ceiling,
> tarps could be hung? I think even it it wasn't perfect, it might be
> pretty good. Lets keep thinking about this one.
>
> Bill
>
>
I have a garage door opener in the way, so I was thinking of building
what amounts to a dog cage to drape plastic or tarps over. A kind of
temporary "finishing room" rather than a "hat" to protect the project.
Some of those finish vapors aren't fit for human co-habitation so you
wouldn't *want* to be in the shop with those things drying.
The hat approach would work, though. Just a simple frame to cover the
project while you work on something else. Even a plastic storage tote
would work.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.
"Edward Hennessey" wrote:
> Hey Lew, how is Cal Aero doing these days?
-------------------------
> As far as I know they are still around.
> Haven't been there in a couple of years.
------------------------
> Lew:
-----------------------------
> According to listings, it's still there. Whenever I'm in
> that part of the country, it magnetizes me if I come
> close but, sad to say, it doesn't have as many nice
> surprises in the offerings since the boss got murdered.
---------------------------------
Wasn't aware of the murder, but you are right.
Impossible to walk in and then try to quickly leave.
Can't do it.
Takes at least 2-3 hours to just find out what's new.
By that time your wallet is much thinner.
Lew
"Edward Hennessey" wrote:
> According to listings, it's still there. Whenever I'm in
> that part of the country, it magnetizes me if I come
> close but, sad to say, it doesn't have as many nice
> surprises in the offerings since the boss got murdered.
------------------------
What brings you to SoCal or is it maybe Paramount?
Lew
"Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I would take this is the usual insulating type of foam. i.e. Styrofoam SM
> or
> SIS?? Blue, yellow or pink, depending on brand.
Expanded Poly(tetrafluoroethylene)(ePTFE) And no, it's not the usual type of
insulating foam.
Edward Hennessey wrote:
> "Dearest, think of the return if we ever sell the place. Why, we could
> take a trip
> around SOLVAY!!! on that kind of profit."
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
^^^^^^^^^^^
On Jan 14, 5:14=A0pm, knuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/14/2011 5:54 PM, RonB wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 14, 4:40 pm, "A. W. Dunstan"<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. =A0To work on anything I ha=
ve to
> >> pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration of=
the
> >> project or putting everything away every evening. =A0Leaving the cars =
out
> >> makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter (Michigan). =A0With=
both
> >> cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just getting in& =A0out of =
the cars
> >> - there's no room for making sawdust. =A0And there's the whole issue o=
f snow,
> >> salt, water, mud etc getting all over everything.
>
> >> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria fo=
r a
> >> new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large' workshop or
> >> enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large garden and s=
ome
> >> fruit trees). =A0One house we've looked at has a huge outbuilding, but=
my wife
> >> thinks the house is too big. =A0She's fallen in love with another one =
which
> >> has no workspace, but with the possibility of building an outbuilding.
>
> >> How big a workshop would you recommend? =A0How much room is needed aro=
und a
> >> table saw? =A0a drill press? =A0a bandsaw?
>
> >> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and fi=
nd
> >> that it's still not big enough.
>
> >> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
> >> needed. =A0I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have al=
l my own
> >> fingers), but would like to become better.
>
> >> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a sta=
nd, a
> >> 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand tools). =A0I =
plan on
> >> upgrading the table saw to either a nice contractor's saw or a hybrid
> >> shortly after we move into the new house and getting rid of the old ta=
blesaw
> >> (one of our kids wants it, along with one of the lathes). =A0I eventua=
lly want
> >> to add a drill press, a bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust
> >> collection. =A0Dust collection is currently either a shop vac and/or a=
n open
> >> garage door, depending on the weather. =A0I'd also like room to store =
wood, do
> >> assembly, finish, etc.
>
> >> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model) th=
at
> >> wouldn't be amiss, either.
>
> >> Thanks for sharing your experience!
>
> >> al
> >> --
> >> Al Dunstan, Software Engineer
> >> OptiMetrics, Inc.
> >> 3115 Professional Drive
> >> Ann Arbor, MI =A048104-5131
>
> >> "There are two ways of constructing a software design. =A0One way is t=
o make
> >> it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. =A0And the othe=
r way
> >> is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
> >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- C. A. R. Hoare
>
> > We just built a house two years ago and I sized the garage for a shop.
>
> > - 32' x32' Just over 1,000 square ft.
> > - Two, 9' Garage doors as opposed to the standard one small/one large
> > door configuration (large doors rob wall space)
> > - Garage doors are spaced 3' apart with provides for a 4-5' vehicle
> > spacing. =A0This allows placing floor tools and compressor between cars=
.
> > - Garage doors are centered on the 32' front allowing about 5' on
> > either side of the door for tools, storage racks, etc.
>
> > RonB
>
> I personal could see a similar arrangement but with one large double
> door centered on at the first third of the garage. =A0This would leave
> about 14 X 32" space for my shop, and about a 10 by 20 foot space in
> front of the cars for the storage of whatever. =A0I also would like an
> oversize pedestrian door on the driveway side of the garage to be able
> to get the tractor, snowblower, bicycles, snowmobile out without
> disturbing the cars.
Agree, if you plan to put three cars in the garage that is needed.
We had a 'conventional' 3 car garage at our last home and I had the
lathe and a stack of sheet goods up against the small door during the
entire 9 years we lived there. That was what led to the two single
doors. On one side I have one of the "Sam's" Gorilla metal storage
racks with tools, jigs, etc. The other side is the house side but
also has my 6 level wood storage rack and a couple or roll around tool
boxes.
RonB
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:40:38 -0500, A. W. Dunstan wrote:
> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. To work on anything I have
> to pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration
> of the project or putting everything away every evening. Leaving the
> cars out makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter (Michigan).
> With both cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just getting in &
> out of the cars - there's no room for making sawdust. And there's the
> whole issue of snow, salt, water, mud etc getting all over everything.
>
> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria for
> a new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large' workshop or
> enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large garden and
> some fruit trees). One house we've looked at has a huge outbuilding,
> but my wife thinks the house is too big. She's fallen in love with
> another one which has no workspace, but with the possibility of building
> an outbuilding.
>
> How big a workshop would you recommend? How much room is needed around
> a table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
>
> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and find
> that it's still not big enough.
>
> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
> needed. I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have all my
> own fingers), but would like to become better.
>
> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a
> stand, a 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand
> tools). I plan on upgrading the table saw to either a nice contractor's
> saw or a hybrid shortly after we move into the new house and getting rid
> of the old tablesaw (one of our kids wants it, along with one of the
> lathes). I eventually want to add a drill press, a bandsaw, a planer
> (maybe a jointer) and dust collection. Dust collection is currently
> either a shop vac and/or an open garage door, depending on the weather.
> I'd also like room to store wood, do assembly, finish, etc.
>
> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model) that
> wouldn't be amiss, either.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!
>
> al
I have never seen a home, commercial, or industrial shop that was too big,
make it as big as the pocketbook will allow and add 50%, it will hurt but
in the end it will be worth the pinch.
basilisk
--
A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Edward Hennessey" wrote:
>
>> Hey Lew, how is Cal Aero doing these days?
> -------------------------
> As far as I know they are still around.
>
> Haven't been there in a couple of years.
>
> Lew
>
>
Lew:
According to listings, it's still there. Whenever I'm in
that part of the country, it magnetizes me if I come
close but, sad to say, it doesn't have as many nice
surprises in the offerings since the boss got murdered.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/15/2011 12:37 AM, Upscale wrote:
>
>> Expanded Poly(tetrafluoroethylene)(ePTFE) And no, it's not the usual type
>> of
>> insulating foam.
>
> I use a blue insulating 3/4x4x8 foam sheeting by RMax called R-Matte-3
> ($10/sht +/-)
I don't remember it being blue... LOL
>
> This one has had about 30 sheets cut on it and is still going strong. The
> saw is set to cut about 1mm into the foam insulation. It also helps a bit
> with mitigating splinter/tearout on good-side-down cutting with some
> materials:
>
> http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/RMaxCutSheet.jpg
>
> Leon has a cool breakdown, 2 x 4, cutting table that fits on folding saw
> horses he designed and built that we also put the foam sheet on when
> cutting, although like Han's rough cut table, it is not necessary.
>
> I'll let him toot his horn on that if he wants.
Done deal on a.b.p.w.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> Puckdropper wrote:
> > Bill<[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> >
> >> Puckdropper wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >>> One of my annoyances with my set up is there's no dust free area for
> >>> finishing. If I paint or poly, I can't do anything for several hours
> >>> to prevent messing up the finish. One of these days, I might build a
> >>> little booth (say 8x8 or 10x10) to keep the dust out so as one
> >>> project is drying I can start work on another. I wonder how hard it
> >>> would be to make one that could be assembled and disassembled with
> >>> only one person?
> >>
> >> For me, this is interesting question in itself. Has it got a standard
> >> answer? I would (like to) envision temporary "walls" created with the
> >> equivalent of a shower curtain, except it would, I suppose, need to
> >> reach to the ceiling and the floor. Basically a dust-free (and
> >> bug-free) zone.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I was thinking about something similar to house walls, 2x4 construction
> > with studs every so many inches and maybe 1/2" plywood or something
> > lighter on the walls. For something designed to be taken down after use,
> > plastic sheeting just wouldn't hold up.
> >
> > If I used screws or bolts through the top and bottom plate, then the
> > whole thing could be stored as a compact pile of around a dozen 2x4s when
> > not in use. Sheets or blankets could then be draped over the structure
> > to keep the dust out. The seal doesn't need to be 100%, just enough to
> > keep the sawdust from settling on the workpiece.
> >
> > Puckdropper
>
> Since you are just trying to keep out dust, a dozen 2x4s seems like real
> overkill. Maybe if a few hooks were attached to the ceiling, tarps
> could be hung? I think even it it wasn't perfect, it might be pretty
> good. Lets keep thinking about this one.
Easy way to do this would be to rig a "shower curtain", the same kind of
deal as the privacy curtains they have in hospitals. Won't keep all the
dust out but it will stop most of it and if you can rig a (small)
filtered fan to keep positive pressure in the area that should do for
the rest.
<http://www.medicalproductsdirect.com/privacyscreens.html> seems to have
everything you need including curved tracks, if you want to do it the
fancy way--note that I have never done business with that company and
have no idea if they are reputable or not--I found it while looking for
a picture of the sort of arrangement I was talking about.
One can probably do well enough though just hanging some conduit, bent
as needed, and using shower curtain hooks and blue tarps.
Make it big, insulate the heck out of it, and make sure you can afford
to heat it. Compromise on big if needed to maintain the other two - not
freezing your behind off in the shop is very valuable in winter, and
money spent on insulating will pay back on heating (if spent
intelligently).
One other factor that can have ann effect on "needed" shop size is
cultivating any neanderthal tendencies you have - working on a board on
a bench with tools takes a lot less room than pushing boards through
machines. 10+ foot ceilings are good for not whacking boards in to the
ceiling, not so good for heat.
Some does depend on what you plan to make - typical board size, etc.
The graph paper cutouts are a good idea, but you still have to have an
idea of what stock you might be feeding to get an idea of needed space
(16 foot boards through tablesaw/planer/jointer need 32+ feet just for
that.)
Don't forget assembly and finish as things that need space but don't
have machines to stake it out for them.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Wow! Thank you all for your input! The search for a house/workshop
continues, but now I've got a better idea of what to look for. Thanks
again!
--
Al Dunstan, Software Engineer
OptiMetrics, Inc.
3115 Professional Drive
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-5131
"There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make
it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other way
is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
- C. A. R. Hoare
> Since you are just trying to keep out dust, a dozen 2x4s seems like real
> overkill. Maybe if a few hooks were attached to the ceiling, tarps could
> be hung? I think even it it wasn't perfect, it might be pretty good.
> Lets keep thinking about this one.
If your ceiling is too high to make hanging them practical, use the
aluminum supports for a beach sun shade that has been abandoned, or you can
use PVC pipe and fittings dry fitted (no glue) together to make a support
for tarps. DO NOT use plastic sheet. Any airborn spray finish will dry on
the inside of the plastic sheeting, then when the wind or your bumping the
plastic causes the plastic sheeting to flex, the finish comes off the
plastic in little flakes that float around the area. How do I know that?
Don't ask!
--
Jim in NC
"NancyKroes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Add my voice to the build or find as big as you can afford. I thought
my 20x20 shop was huge back when I built it and now it is full of
tools with little assembly space AND I took over one stall of the 2
stall garage for sheet good storage AND I had a 12x16' barn built for
my lumber storage.
As far as tools - most of my shop is Grizzly and I am completely happy
with my choices. These pics are outdated - I've upgraded my Delta Drum
Sander to the Grizzly version (and yes, I consider that was a huge
upgrade - the Grizzly is much nicer in my opinion) and I now have 7
lithium ion cordless drills instead of any of those pictured.
http://homepages.wmich.edu/~kroes/shop/index.html And, I should add,
I have enough ww mags to file for another 2 or 3 of the tall file
cabinets.
And you have a "Break Area"!
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Leon has a cool breakdown, 2 x 4, cutting table that fits on folding saw
> horses he designed and built that we also put the foam sheet on when
> cutting, although like Han's rough cut table, it is not necessary.
>
> I'll let him toot his horn on that if he wants.
Yup. Leon told me about it when I was getting advice from him about my
purchasing a Festool TS55.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Hennessey wrote:
>
>> "Dearest, think of the return if we ever sell the place. Why, we
>> could
>> take a trip
>> around SOLVAY!!! on that kind of profit."
>
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
M:
You flat read my mind.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
Good idea but isn't that foam become a hell of a mess that is hard to clean
up with all the static it generates?
Or do you live in one of those humid climates that deoesn't understand
static cling?...LOL
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Two things come to mind.
2) Add a 2" thick lift off foam sheet.and use it with a circular saw
to break down ply sheets.
Lew
"A. W. Dunstan" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. To work on anything I have
> to pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration
> of the project or putting everything away every evening. Leaving the
> cars out makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter
> (Michigan). With both cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just
> getting in & out of the cars - there's no room for making sawdust.
> And there's the whole issue of snow, salt, water, mud etc getting all
> over everything.
>
<snip>
> How big a workshop would you recommend? How much room is needed
> around a table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
>
> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and
> find that it's still not big enough.
>
> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
> needed. I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have all
> my own fingers), but would like to become better.
>
> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a
> stand, a 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand
> tools). I plan on upgrading the table saw to either a nice
> contractor's saw or a hybrid shortly after we move into the new house
> and getting rid of the old tablesaw (one of our kids wants it, along
> with one of the lathes). I eventually want to add a drill press, a
> bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust collection. Dust
> collection is currently either a shop vac and/or an open garage door,
> depending on the weather. I'd also like room to store wood, do
> assembly, finish, etc.
>
> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model)
> that wouldn't be amiss, either.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!
>
> al
My first was a 24' x 24' (no vehicles) and it worked well until I
realized I had not thought of space for a paint booth and drying racks.
Inclement weather can ruin a whole day (or 2) at play.
My second rude awakening came after I installed a huge dust collection
system and sacrificed a good portion of usable floor space ...I wound up
moving the DC into an overhead half-loft at one end, Compressor outside
under a lean-to style shelter, and painting within mesquito nets hung
from a tent frame.
I too was an amateur (still am) and didn't think I needed much
more...<g>
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I would take this is the usual insulating type of foam. i.e.
>> Styrofoam SM or
>> SIS?? Blue, yellow or pink, depending on brand.
>
> Expanded Poly(tetrafluoroethylene)(ePTFE) And no, it's not the usual
> type of insulating foam.
I have a basement workshop. While it may be possible to get a 4x8 sheet
down there, it is easier to cut up in the garage, which hasn't held a car
in all the time I've owned the house. I made a simple frame of 2x4's on
collapsable legs as on a setup table. Saw the design somewhere here long
ago. OK, when I cut plywood I cut a bit into the 2x4s but hell, that's no
problem. Collapsed the thing just stands against the sheets and the
canoes. Can post pics on abpw.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in news:ePiYo.568053$pX3.536222@en-
nntp-11.dc1.easynews.com:
>
> "Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> problem. Collapsed the thing just stands against the sheets and the
>> canoes. Can post pics on abpw.
>
> Sure. Post away.
OK Pictures to be up in a minute. I tried to look up the original design,
and this comes closest to it. Uses a set of collapsing banquet table legs.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Han <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:ePiYo.568053$pX3.536222@en- nntp-11.dc1.easynews.com:
>
>>
>> "Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> problem. Collapsed the thing just stands against the sheets and the
>>> canoes. Can post pics on abpw.
>>
>> Sure. Post away.
>
> OK Pictures to be up in a minute. I tried to look up the original
> design, and this comes closest to it. Uses a set of collapsing
> banquet table legs.
http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/panel_cutting_table.htm
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> One of my annoyances with my set up is there's no dust free area
>> for
>> finishing. If I paint or poly, I can't do anything for several
>> hours to
>> prevent messing up the finish. One of these days, I might build a
>> little
>> booth (say 8x8 or 10x10) to keep the dust out so as one project is
>> drying
>> I can start work on another. I wonder how hard it would be to make
>> one
>> that could be assembled and disassembled with only one person?
>
> I built a spray area out of canvas type drop cloths. I staple them
> to the rafter, and staple a 2 x 4 to the bottom of them to hold
> tension on them and seal against the floor. A door can be made by
> overlapping two sections by a couple feet and using a separate 2 x
> for that part on one of the double layers. That can be a bother, and
> I have just been redoing my area by taking an old door, making a
> frame out of lumber that I can attach my cloth walls to, so I can go
> in and out through a real door. It is nicer, but more expensive,
> and takes a little more room.
>
> One thing nobody has mentioned is the problem of paint, or other
> finishes or glues odors getting into the house from a basement or
> attached garage workshop. It is a huge problem for me, since
> hydrocarbons are a trigger for migraine headaches for my wife. I
> solved the problem by making a finish area in one corner, and use a
> furnace blower to pull a little negative pressure in the finish
> area. No smell can go against the flow of air to make it into the
> house, as long as the blower keeps running. I put it in a wooden
> box on wheels, and plumb it to the spray area by using a 12 inch
> flexible furnace duct going though a removable panel with a hole in
> the garage door. Works great. I can spray anything I want and let
> it dry, and she never smells the first hint. Be sure to use a
> squirrel cage blower, because fans do not create enough pressure
> differential, unless they are really screaming.
>
> The same can work for a finish area, but there can be a variation or
> two. You can push fresh outside air into the area through a filter
> to keep outside dust out of the room, and keep dust from the shop
> forced out of the area, or you can pull a negative pressure in the
> area, as long as everything seals pretty good in the shop to spray
> area. You then make a restricted air intake from the shop to the
> finish area by using a couple hyper allergenic furnace filters so no
> woodworking dust gets into the finish area. This has the advantage
> of being heated or cooled air, if the rest of the shop has those
> things for it's air.
>
> When you don't need the finish area, roll up the cloths to the
> ceiling and secure them with some light ropes like furling sails, or
> some pinch clamps to hold the roll together.
> --
> Jim in NC
There are a lot of good ideas here.
Another notion would be to take 4 legs of EMT, flatten one end, drill
a hole for
a decent bolt to fit through and then fasten the flattened ends to any
rafters with
the bolts and washers. You could put a canvas or plywood "roof" on the
rafters
between the area enclosed by the EMT legs and swing them down when you
needed a contained area, hanging some canvas or cloth around the legs
when
extended to the floor. The canvas could be affixed a number of ways as
could the legs
at the floor base. When done with the work, just fold it all up.
Hey Lew, how is Cal Aero doing these days?
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
"A. W. Dunstan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. To work on anything I
> have to
> pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration
> of the
> project or putting everything away every evening. Leaving the cars
> out
> makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter (Michigan). With
> both
> cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just getting in & out of
> the cars
> - there's no room for making sawdust. And there's the whole issue
> of snow,
> salt, water, mud etc getting all over everything.
>
> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria
> for a
> new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large' workshop
> or
> enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large garden and
> some
> fruit trees). One house we've looked at has a huge outbuilding, but
> my wife
> thinks the house is too big. She's fallen in love with another one
> which
> has no workspace, but with the possibility of building an
> outbuilding.
>
> How big a workshop would you recommend? How much room is needed
> around a
> table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
>
> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and
> find
> that it's still not big enough.
>
> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop
> isn't
> needed. I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have
> all my own
> fingers), but would like to become better.
>
> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a
> stand, a
> 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand tools). I
> plan on
> upgrading the table saw to either a nice contractor's saw or a
> hybrid
> shortly after we move into the new house and getting rid of the old
> tablesaw
> (one of our kids wants it, along with one of the lathes). I
> eventually want
> to add a drill press, a bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust
> collection. Dust collection is currently either a shop vac and/or
> an open
> garage door, depending on the weather. I'd also like room to store
> wood, do
> assembly, finish, etc.
>
> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model)
> that
> wouldn't be amiss, either.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!
>
> al
> --
> Al Dunstan, Software Engineer
> OptiMetrics, Inc.
> 3115 Professional Drive
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-5131
>
AD:
I'm adding to the consensus for granting yourself the liberty of more
space than
you think you need in exchange for later looking back with rueful
realization.
Taunton published "The Workshop Book" which you will find an
informative
treatment. Your climate will counsel you on which of the structural
options explored
are unadvisable or gospel for your situation. Check Amazon for reviews
of
the book and the topically associated volumes purchased by other
customers.
Unless--and even if--you are a pyramid builder of the first order, it
is often much
cheaper to buy sound real estate than it is to oversee its
construction, either in the
costs of the time, frustration or money involved.
Visiting a megalopolis of a factory one time, I came upon a hall that
had a 3-D
scale representation of the entire facility, including the
consumables, and raw
materials incoming, plus the products emerging at the end of the line.
Figuring what
operations and machines were wisely grouped and how elements could
best move
in that modeled environment would have approached a pleasure.
Perhaps you can overcome wifely resistance to a suitable larger house
by
the personal touch of an appeal to her interests. "Honey haven't you
ever dreamed
of a sewing/sun/ drawing/craft/dressing/etcetera room all of your
own?" And if the subject
sprawling property is a proportional purchase value (with that
capacious outbuilding)
"Dearest, think of the return if we ever sell the place. Why, we could
take a trip
around _____on that kind of profit."
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Edward Hennessey" wrote:
>> According to listings, it's still there. Whenever I'm in
>> that part of the country, it magnetizes me if I come
>> close but, sad to say, it doesn't have as many nice
>> surprises in the offerings since the boss got murdered.
> ------------------------
> What brings you to SoCal or is it maybe Paramount?
>
> Lew
>
>
I've got some terra firma there. The boss at CA was a
quite intelligent and interesting man. We got along great.
IIRC, the very personal way in which he and his wife were killed
also involved the theft of critical CA business records. Though
this leaves the imagination little to do in the way of fixing a
suspect
class, as far as I know the sad fact was no one ever went away
for the crime. Sad.
Regards to you and Zamboni,
Edward Hennessey
On Jan 20, 10:47=A0am, "A. W. Dunstan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Wow! =A0Thank you all for your input! =A0The search for a house/workshop
> continues, but now I've got a better idea of what to look for. =A0Thanks
> again!
>
> --
> Al Dunstan, Software Engineer
> OptiMetrics, Inc.
> 3115 Professional Drive
> Ann Arbor, MI =A048104-5131
>
> "There are two ways of constructing a software design. =A0One way is to m=
ake
> it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. =A0And the other w=
ay
> is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - C. A. R. Hoare
Add my voice to the build or find as big as you can afford. I thought
my 20x20 shop was huge back when I built it and now it is full of
tools with little assembly space AND I took over one stall of the 2
stall garage for sheet good storage AND I had a 12x16' barn built for
my lumber storage.
As far as tools - most of my shop is Grizzly and I am completely happy
with my choices. These pics are outdated - I've upgraded my Delta Drum
Sander to the Grizzly version (and yes, I consider that was a huge
upgrade - the Grizzly is much nicer in my opinion) and I now have 7
lithium ion cordless drills instead of any of those pictured.
http://homepages.wmich.edu/~kroes/shop/index.html And, I should add,
I have enough ww mags to file for another 2 or 3 of the tall file
cabinets.
In article <[email protected]>,
"A. W. Dunstan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. To work on anything I have to
> pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration of the
> project or putting everything away every evening. Leaving the cars out
> makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter (Michigan). With both
> cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just getting in & out of the cars
> - there's no room for making sawdust. And there's the whole issue of snow,
> salt, water, mud etc getting all over everything.
>
> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria for a
> new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large' workshop or
> enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large garden and some
> fruit trees). One house we've looked at has a huge outbuilding, but my wife
> thinks the house is too big. She's fallen in love with another one which
> has no workspace, but with the possibility of building an outbuilding.
>
> How big a workshop would you recommend? How much room is needed around a
> table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
>
> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and find
> that it's still not big enough.
>
> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
> needed. I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have all my own
> fingers), but would like to become better.
>
> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a stand, a
> 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand tools). I plan on
> upgrading the table saw to either a nice contractor's saw or a hybrid
> shortly after we move into the new house and getting rid of the old tablesaw
> (one of our kids wants it, along with one of the lathes). I eventually want
> to add a drill press, a bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust
> collection. Dust collection is currently either a shop vac and/or an open
> garage door, depending on the weather. I'd also like room to store wood, do
> assembly, finish, etc.
>
> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model) that
> wouldn't be amiss, either.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!
>
> al
Al -
I am close by (15 minute drive). If you want to come look at what I did,
I would be happy to arrange it.
Three things to think about in Michigan:
1) How much do you want to use it in the winter - that goes to heating
2) How much of your summer stuff do you need to store - deck chairs,
mowers, etc. If you don't have storage space, it will end up in the shop
3) How many half finished projects will you have, the more, the more
storage space you will need.
I built a 30 by 45 barn and split it into parts:
1) A loft for deep storage (e.g. pool stuff, winter covers, special
lumber, etc)
2) A 2 car garage that holds the mower and other outdoor equipment, plus
my 15 year old van that I use to go to the saw mill, etc
3) An alleyway that holds my greenhouse stuff and other tools that
support my garden, greenhouse and orchard.
4) My workshop
If I had it to do over again, I probably would do it differently today.
But I decided 15 years ago when greenhouses were more interesting and
wooodworking less so. I made a lot of mistakes that someday, I will have
to fix.
"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> problem. Collapsed the thing just stands against the sheets and the
> canoes. Can post pics on abpw.
Sure. Post away.
"A. W. Dunstan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. To work on anything I have to
> pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration of the
> project or putting everything away every evening. Leaving the cars out
> makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter (Michigan). With both
> cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just getting in & out of the
> cars
> - there's no room for making sawdust. And there's the whole issue of
> snow,
> salt, water, mud etc getting all over everything.
>
> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria for a
> new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large' workshop or
> enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large garden and some
> fruit trees). One house we've looked at has a huge outbuilding, but my
> wife
> thinks the house is too big. She's fallen in love with another one which
> has no workspace, but with the possibility of building an outbuilding.
>
> How big a workshop would you recommend? How much room is needed around a
> table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
>
> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and find
> that it's still not big enough.
>
> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
> needed. I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have all my
> own
> fingers), but would like to become better.
>
> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a stand,
> a
> 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand tools). I plan
> on
> upgrading the table saw to either a nice contractor's saw or a hybrid
> shortly after we move into the new house and getting rid of the old
> tablesaw
> (one of our kids wants it, along with one of the lathes). I eventually
> want
> to add a drill press, a bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust
> collection. Dust collection is currently either a shop vac and/or an open
> garage door, depending on the weather. I'd also like room to store wood,
> do
> assembly, finish, etc.
>
> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model) that
> wouldn't be amiss, either.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!
Snip
I recently upgraded to a 3 car shop and actually did the lay out on the
computer. I used Sketchup with all the free importable machine components
to arrange in the model of our new house/garage.
> If I used screws or bolts through the top and bottom plate, then the
> whole thing could be stored as a compact pile of around a dozen 2x4s when
> not in use. Sheets or blankets could then be draped over the structure
> to keep the dust out. The seal doesn't need to be 100%, just enough to
> keep the sawdust from settling on the workpiece.
Canvas drop clothes work great. Durable, and you can put them on the floor
for painting when you need to!
See my other post about that in this thread.
--
Jim in NC
On 1/14/2011 5:54 PM, RonB wrote:
> On Jan 14, 4:40 pm, "A. W. Dunstan"<[email protected]> wrote:
>> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. To work on anything I have to
>> pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration of the
>> project or putting everything away every evening. Leaving the cars out
>> makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter (Michigan). With both
>> cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just getting in& out of the cars
>> - there's no room for making sawdust. And there's the whole issue of snow,
>> salt, water, mud etc getting all over everything.
>>
>> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria for a
>> new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large' workshop or
>> enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large garden and some
>> fruit trees). One house we've looked at has a huge outbuilding, but my wife
>> thinks the house is too big. She's fallen in love with another one which
>> has no workspace, but with the possibility of building an outbuilding.
>>
>> How big a workshop would you recommend? How much room is needed around a
>> table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
>>
>> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and find
>> that it's still not big enough.
>>
>> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
>> needed. I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have all my own
>> fingers), but would like to become better.
>>
>> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a stand, a
>> 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand tools). I plan on
>> upgrading the table saw to either a nice contractor's saw or a hybrid
>> shortly after we move into the new house and getting rid of the old tablesaw
>> (one of our kids wants it, along with one of the lathes). I eventually want
>> to add a drill press, a bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust
>> collection. Dust collection is currently either a shop vac and/or an open
>> garage door, depending on the weather. I'd also like room to store wood, do
>> assembly, finish, etc.
>>
>> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model) that
>> wouldn't be amiss, either.
>>
>> Thanks for sharing your experience!
>>
>> al
>> --
>> Al Dunstan, Software Engineer
>> OptiMetrics, Inc.
>> 3115 Professional Drive
>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-5131
>>
>> "There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make
>> it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other way
>> is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
>> - C. A. R. Hoare
>
> We just built a house two years ago and I sized the garage for a shop.
>
> - 32' x32' Just over 1,000 square ft.
> - Two, 9' Garage doors as opposed to the standard one small/one large
> door configuration (large doors rob wall space)
> - Garage doors are spaced 3' apart with provides for a 4-5' vehicle
> spacing. This allows placing floor tools and compressor between cars.
> - Garage doors are centered on the 32' front allowing about 5' on
> either side of the door for tools, storage racks, etc.
>
> RonB
I personal could see a similar arrangement but with one large double
door centered on at the first third of the garage. This would leave
about 14 X 32" space for my shop, and about a 10 by 20 foot space in
front of the cars for the storage of whatever. I also would like an
oversize pedestrian door on the driveway side of the garage to be able
to get the tractor, snowblower, bicycles, snowmobile out without
disturbing the cars.
A. W. Dunstan wrote:
> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. To work on anything I have to
> pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration of the
> project or putting everything away every evening. Leaving the cars out
> makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter (Michigan). With both
> cars in the garage it's a bit of a squeeze just getting in& out of the cars
> - there's no room for making sawdust. And there's the whole issue of snow,
> salt, water, mud etc getting all over everything.
>
> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria for a
> new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large' workshop or
> enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large garden and some
> fruit trees). One house we've looked at has a huge outbuilding, but my wife
> thinks the house is too big. She's fallen in love with another one which
> has no workspace, but with the possibility of building an outbuilding.
>
> How big a workshop would you recommend? How much room is needed around a
> table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
How long are the pieces are you planning to make, cut, drill? You don't
want to feel cramped, do ya? If you build a shop, build in nice
windows...wish I had some.
> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and find
> that it's still not big enough.
Gosh, that would really hurt if you had too much space, huh? I don't
think it would be a problem though, "squatters" would find it...
>
> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
> needed. I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have all my own
> fingers), but would like to become better.
>
> I currently have a 3' x 6' workbench, an 8" benchtop tablesaw on a stand, a
> 10" radial arm saw and two wood lathes (plus sundry hand tools). I plan on
> upgrading the table saw to either a nice contractor's saw or a hybrid
> shortly after we move into the new house and getting rid of the old tablesaw
> (one of our kids wants it, along with one of the lathes).
Just curious, with your willingness to go through all of the trouble and
expense of building a new shop, how come a decent cabinet saw isn't on
your list? Are you more of a turner?
BTW, when you are looking at garages and spaces, don't forget to look at
their elecrical configuration (capacity for 220v, etc.).
I eventually want
> to add a drill press, a bandsaw, a planer (maybe a jointer) and dust
> collection. Dust collection is currently either a shop vac and/or an open
> garage door, depending on the weather. I'd also like room to store wood, do
> assembly, finish, etc.
Better not skimp on space!
>
> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model) that
> wouldn't be amiss, either.
If you can justify the $3K, look at SawStop tablesaws.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!
My experience is this is a very friendly place to ask questions! I'm
going to school here. Good luck!
Bill
>
> al
On 1/14/2011 5:40 PM, A. W. Dunstan wrote:
> My current 'workshop' is a two-car garage. To work on anything I have to
> pull one or both cars out, leaving one or both out for the duration of the
> project or putting everything away every evening. Leaving the cars out
> makes the wife unhappy, particularly in the winter (Michigan).
Wood workers in your situation don't have garages, they have workshops.
Tell your wife a heated garage is horrible for cars any where salt is
part of winter.
And there's the whole issue of snow,
> salt, water, mud etc getting all over everything.
Salt doesn't rust stuff, salt water does. Your cars can be caked with
frozen salt all winter and no rust until the salt/ice mixture thaws and
turns to salt water, which rusts anything capable of rusting. Placing
your car in a heated garage will cause a daily thaw cycle conducive to
rust. Explain this to your wife carefully so she parks her car outside
and use the garage for it's intended purpose, a wood shop. (worked for me)
> For various reasons we're thinking of moving and one of my criteria for a
> new house is either the presence of a 'sufficiently large' workshop or
> enough land on which to build one (plus space for a large garden and some
> fruit trees). One house we've looked at has a huge outbuilding, but my wife
> thinks the house is too big. She's fallen in love with another one which
> has no workspace, but with the possibility of building an outbuilding.
I always dreamed of having a nice out building for my workshop. I'm now
very happy that never happened. If you have a commercial shop, where
you are forced to spend 8 - 18 hours a day in your shop, sure, good to
have a separate building. If you are a hobbyist, even a serious one,
having it as part of your home is super. When I was young I spent long
days in my shop, now, I spend small chunks of time. I just walk down
the steps to my warm shop when ever, and for as long as I wish. No need
to heat it, no need to tramp though the snow to get to a cold shop.
Everything is there waiting for me. I would buy the one with a huge
outbuilding, use the huge outbuilding for the garage and storage of all
the junk you and your family should be collecting.
> How big a workshop would you recommend? How much room is needed around a
> table saw? a drill press? a bandsaw?
A two car garage 24x24 at least is the minimum comfortable size for a
complete wood shop for a hobbyist, which you certainly are from what you
say. Lathe, drill press, bandsaw, jig saw can all be placed against one
wall, with room for a shaper or planer on wheels against the same wall.
Table saw and jointer ideally should be on same bench, on wheels.
> I don't want to go overboard on space, but I don't want to move and find
> that it's still not big enough.
IMO, 24x24 is minimal, and quite enough. Bigger would be nice for a
crazy stuff like spray booth, storage of half built junk, odd
hardware/jigs and so on, but 24x24 is a good size for the shop. Almost
everyone here thinks you can't have too much room, but I don't agree. A
hobbyist in a warehouse would be walking around way too much and would
end up with all his tools in a small, 32x32' space anyhow. Compact is
good, and I'd say for most stuff a hobbyist does, you want minimum size,
plus a little extra room to breath. If you plan on commercially
building house trusses for a living, or house boats, you need more room.
Building kitchen cabinets, desks, end tables, book cases, chairs, and
so on, smaller is OK. If I were building my own, I'd build 32x32, and
put my compressor and dust collector in a separate partition/room so I
didn't have to listen to them.
> I'm definitely an _amateur_ woodworker, so a production workshop isn't
> needed. I'm not a good woodworker (good enough that I still have all my own
> fingers), but would like to become better.
> If you have suggestions regarding tools (what kind and which model) that
> wouldn't be amiss, either.
My suggestion on tools is get the best you can afford. If you are
filthy, stinking rich, Festools and such are fine, if you are poor, or
like me, cheap, look for quality used tools. Cheap (new) tools are
seldom a good deal, although there are some exceptions in hand tools, I
don't think there are any exceptions on stationary tools. I don't want
to own a cheap bandsaw or table saw, or jointer, for example.
Personally, my most used tools are the table saw, drill press and
bandsaw, and if I were advising someone on which tools to buy first,
they would be the first 3, followed by a disk/belt sander combo. If
your primary interest is turning bowls or pens, this would not work:-)
--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com
Puckdropper wrote:
<snip>
> One of my annoyances with my set up is there's no dust free area for
> finishing. If I paint or poly, I can't do anything for several hours to
> prevent messing up the finish. One of these days, I might build a little
> booth (say 8x8 or 10x10) to keep the dust out so as one project is drying
> I can start work on another. I wonder how hard it would be to make one
> that could be assembled and disassembled with only one person?
For me, this is interesting question in itself. Has it got a standard
answer? I would (like to) envision temporary "walls" created with the
equivalent of a shower curtain, except it would, I suppose, need to
reach to the ceiling and the floor. Basically a dust-free (and
bug-free) zone.
Bill
>
> Size wise, there's usually no such thing as too much space. My shop fits
> into a space about 25x30, but the storage is a little disorganized and
> there's a bunch of other stuff on the other side of the garage. (See
> garden tool comment above.)
>
> Puckdropper
Puckdropper wrote:
> Bill<[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> Puckdropper wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> One of my annoyances with my set up is there's no dust free area for
>>> finishing. If I paint or poly, I can't do anything for several hours
>>> to prevent messing up the finish. One of these days, I might build a
>>> little booth (say 8x8 or 10x10) to keep the dust out so as one
>>> project is drying I can start work on another. I wonder how hard it
>>> would be to make one that could be assembled and disassembled with
>>> only one person?
>>
>> For me, this is interesting question in itself. Has it got a standard
>> answer? I would (like to) envision temporary "walls" created with the
>> equivalent of a shower curtain, except it would, I suppose, need to
>> reach to the ceiling and the floor. Basically a dust-free (and
>> bug-free) zone.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>
> I was thinking about something similar to house walls, 2x4 construction
> with studs every so many inches and maybe 1/2" plywood or something
> lighter on the walls. For something designed to be taken down after use,
> plastic sheeting just wouldn't hold up.
>
> If I used screws or bolts through the top and bottom plate, then the
> whole thing could be stored as a compact pile of around a dozen 2x4s when
> not in use. Sheets or blankets could then be draped over the structure
> to keep the dust out. The seal doesn't need to be 100%, just enough to
> keep the sawdust from settling on the workpiece.
>
> Puckdropper
Since you are just trying to keep out dust, a dozen 2x4s seems like real
overkill. Maybe if a few hooks were attached to the ceiling, tarps
could be hung? I think even it it wasn't perfect, it might be pretty
good. Lets keep thinking about this one.
Bill
On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 00:22:32 +0000, Puckdropper wrote:
>
> One of my annoyances with my set up is there's no dust free area for
> finishing. If I paint or poly, I can't do anything for several hours to
> prevent messing up the finish. One of these days, I might build a
> little booth (say 8x8 or 10x10) to keep the dust out so as one project
> is drying I can start work on another. I wonder how hard it would be to
> make one that could be assembled and disassembled with only one person?
>
I have the same problem. I too would advocate a finishing room if
building.
I don't know how old the original poster is, but at my age a toilet would
certainly save a few trips back to the house. And if he's installing
plumbing he might as well put in a sink while he's at it.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
J. Clarke wrote:
>>> I was thinking about something similar to house walls, 2x4 construction
>>> with studs every so many inches and maybe 1/2" plywood or something
>>> lighter on the walls. For something designed to be taken down after use,
>>> plastic sheeting just wouldn't hold up.
>>>
>>> If I used screws or bolts through the top and bottom plate, then the
>>> whole thing could be stored as a compact pile of around a dozen 2x4s when
>>> not in use. Sheets or blankets could then be draped over the structure
>>> to keep the dust out. The seal doesn't need to be 100%, just enough to
>>> keep the sawdust from settling on the workpiece.
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>>
>> Since you are just trying to keep out dust, a dozen 2x4s seems like real
>> overkill. Maybe if a few hooks were attached to the ceiling, tarps
>> could be hung? I think even it it wasn't perfect, it might be pretty
>> good. Lets keep thinking about this one.
>
> Easy way to do this would be to rig a "shower curtain", the same kind of
> deal as the privacy curtains they have in hospitals. Won't keep all the
> dust out but it will stop most of it and if you can rig a (small)
> filtered fan to keep positive pressure in the area that should do for
> the rest.
I like the idea you've described. Would you mount a filtered fan
designed for a computer to your "shower curtain" or did you have
something bigger in mind? Nice idea!
Bill
>
> <http://www.medicalproductsdirect.com/privacyscreens.html> seems to have
> everything you need including curved tracks, if you want to do it the
> fancy way--note that I have never done business with that company and
> have no idea if they are reputable or not--I found it while looking for
> a picture of the sort of arrangement I was talking about.
>
> One can probably do well enough though just hanging some conduit, bent
> as needed, and using shower curtain hooks and blue tarps.
>
>
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:40:17 -0800, Zz Yzx <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>Thanks for sharing your experience!
>
>A one-car garage is too small. Trust me.
>
>DAMHIKT.
>
>-Zzl
A two car garage is too small too.
But then if I hada HANGAR it would likely end up being too small.