CM

Clark Moss

20/10/2018 5:31 PM

Recommend work bench thickness

What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness when using bench-dogs or other types of hold-fasts?

I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher block. I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.


This topic has 34 replies

pf

pyotr filipivich

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

22/10/2018 8:26 AM

Clark Moss <[email protected]> on Sun, 21 Oct 2018 19:29:57 -0700
(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>Especially considering the butcher block was free.

Free is a very good price.

Now, how much are you spending to get it home, set up, stable ....
"asking for a friend".*

*I snagged two solid core doors. two inches thick. Great bench.
But after the last re-organization, I need to make some serious legs
for the one. Before, when I "pushed" on it, I was pushing the bench
against the wall. Now I'm not, and it "wiggles". One more thing ...

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

SW

Spalted Walt

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

22/10/2018 1:09 PM

"Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Free butcher block? Great I would think about using it also. BUT you will have the end grain up, which means any spills are going right down into the top.

Not necessarily:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Maple-Butcher-Block-72-x-24-x-2-1-4-/T21249
http://cdn2.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg1000/t/t21249-f53933844522633f7e2d472a40751283.jpg
http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2018/main/341?p=341

CM

Clark Moss

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

22/10/2018 11:47 PM

Luckily it's edge grain butcher block. It's pine or fir, so it's gong to get beat up quick. But again... Free, and in better shape than the maple 1x8s on there now.
Next I need to research dog hole spacing and how many you really need. I'm sure that depends on the project.

DD

"Dr. Deb"

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

22/10/2018 5:42 AM

On Saturday, October 20, 2018 at 7:31:39 PM UTC-5, Clark Moss wrote:
> What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness when using bench-dogs=
or other types of hold-fasts?
>=20
> I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher =
block. I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.

Free butcher block? Great I would think about using it also. BUT you wil=
l have the end grain up, which means any spills are going right down into t=
he top. I much prefer the Rubo style of 2.75 to 3.5 inches. You get the w=
eight to provide a lot more stability to your bench, assuming you put reaso=
nable legs on it. =20

What you could do is use the butcher block and top it with a second top of =
about 1.5" thick with the side grain up. Two advantages, 1) its a whole lo=
t easier to handle than a 3" solid top and 2) you do not have the end grain=
wicking up anything that drop on it.

CM

Clark Moss

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

21/10/2018 7:29 PM

Especially considering the butcher block was free.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

23/10/2018 3:38 PM

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 5:50:47 PM UTC-4, Clark Moss wrote:
> Here's the BEFORE picture:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/1jybVgNDodzRv14i9
>
> Here's the AFTER picture:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/VH2ngtHivxbgvZzF7

Looks nice. Is that used as an outfeed for the table saw? Does the extra
height screw that up?

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

26/10/2018 7:30 PM

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 7:40:38 PM UTC-4, Clark Moss wrote:
> Thanks! Yes, it's the outfeed. The drop was a little too much before. Now it's a half inch. So far it feels good.

I take it you don't have a large sled...or will you be routing slots?

CM

Clark Moss

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

23/10/2018 9:29 AM

Great looking bench! Mine is more of an outfeed table/work bench island. I'll post before and after pictures soon.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

22/10/2018 10:18 AM

On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 9:49:39 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >Free butcher block? Great I would think about using it also.
> >BUT you will have the end grain up
>
>
> That was my first thought also - until I looked up butcher block :
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butcher_block
>
> " two basic styles of butcher block: end grain and edge grain:
>
> John T.

The same holds for cutting boards. They say end grain is better because the
knife "opens" the grain instead of trying to cut through. Your knives stay
sharpen longer.

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

22/10/2018 8:05 PM

"[email protected]" <[email protected]> writes:
>On Saturday, October 20, 2018 at 7:31:39 PM UTC-5, Clark Moss wrote:
>> What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness when using bench-dogs or other types of hold-fasts?
>>
>> I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher block. I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.
>
>I believe a workbench should be solid and massive. Heavy so it does not move when you plane boards. My bench is about 2' x 8' and 2.5" thick. Red oak. It doesn't move. I wish I had made it an inch thicker.

sandbags on the legs.

Mine is 2.25" thick hard maple (28"x84"), but I used alder for the 16/4 legs, and that's
a bit lighter weight. So, the bottom shelf holds a #3, #4, #4 1/2,
#605, #606, #607 and #608, to add a bit of mass to the bench :-)

CM

Clark Moss

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

23/10/2018 4:40 PM

Thanks! Yes, it's the outfeed. The drop was a little too much before. Now it's a half inch. So far it feels good.

rr

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

24/10/2018 12:32 PM

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 11:11:38 AM UTC-5, Clark Moss wrote:
>=20
> I didn't think I could buy a new fence for a 50+ year old machine, and or=
iginal parts are way out of my price range (if you can find them). Time for=
a new fence!


I suspect you could buy a new fence to fit the table saw very easily. Tabl=
e saws have not changed much at all in about 50 years. The same parts that=
fit them 50 years ago still fit them today. I have a 25 year old Delta Co=
ntractor saw. I put a Biesemeyer fence on it 25 years ago. Today I could =
buy a Biesemeyer fence and install it the same. Nothing has changed in 25 =
years. And I'm pretty sure nothing has changed in 50 years either. The or=
iginal Delta Unisaw from 1930 could fit a brand new Biesemeyer fence today.=
Or Delta's new table saw fence they invented 20 years ago. Unifence? Or=
any of the other new table saw fences. They all fit all old saws.

CM

Clark Moss

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

23/10/2018 8:22 PM

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 7:06:15 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:50:43 -0700 (PDT), Clark Moss
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Here's the BEFORE picture:
> >https://photos.app.goo.gl/1jybVgNDodzRv14i9
> >
> >Here's the AFTER picture:
> >https://photos.app.goo.gl/VH2ngtHivxbgvZzF7
>
> Nice! I'm surprised at the direction of the boards.

I'm hoping that doesn't impact strength. These boards were glued up over 20 years ago... I had three panels and only needed to cut 1/2 inch or so off every side to get them all to fit.

EP

Ed Pawlowski

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

21/10/2018 4:45 PM

On 10/21/2018 2:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 13:19:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 10/20/2018 8:31 PM, Clark Moss wrote:
>>> What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness when using bench-dogs or other types of hold-fasts?
>>>
>>> I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher block. I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.
>>>
>> That is plenty thick. I use 3/4" because it is what I had but would
>> prefer 1".
>
>
> ... not 3/4 inch butcher block, I bet ?
> John T.
>

No, plywood. If was a home made drafting table where I worked many
years ago. When the didn't want it any more I converted it to a
workbench. Free is a good price.

CM

Clark Moss

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

21/10/2018 7:35 PM

Thank you all for the feedback. This is encouraging and makes me excited to start this project.
My grandpa passed 20+ years ago. I got three slabs of butcher block from his shop last winter, with no plans in mind. This idea started kicking around last week when I realized the three slabs are the perfect size.

EP

Ed Pawlowski

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

24/10/2018 10:08 AM

On 10/23/2018 11:14 AM, Jack wrote:
>
> All the wear and tear (not all that much considering it's cheap
> softwood) is a romantic reminder of the 43 years of hard work spent
> together and I wouldn't remotely consider replacing or removing it's
> hard earned patina.
>
> http://jbstein.com/Flick/bench03.JPG
>

Yeah, that has a nice patina. Easy to do if you have 40+ years.

CM

Clark Moss

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

23/10/2018 9:27 AM

Fantastic! Covers all the bases. I don't have a vise right now and he covers hole placement without a vise. Great video!

CM

Clark Moss

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

24/10/2018 9:11 AM

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 6:34:16 AM UTC-7, Jack wrote:
> On 10/23/2018 11:22 PM, Clark Moss wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 7:06:15 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrot=
e:
> >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:50:43 -0700 (PDT), Clark Moss
> >> <> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Here's the BEFORE picture:
> >>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/1jybVgNDodzRv14i9
> >>>
> >>> Here's the AFTER picture:
> >>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/VH2ngtHivxbgvZzF7
> >>
> >> Nice! I'm surprised at the direction of the boards.
> >
> > I'm hoping that doesn't impact strength. These boards were glued up ov=
er 20 years ago... I had three panels and only needed to cut 1/2 inch or s=
o off every side to get them all to fit.
>=20
> Strength shouldn't be an issue, unless working on an elephant. At any=20
> rate, it will be stronger in this orientation.
>=20
> On a side note, I had the exact same table saw fence on my saw. Great=20
> upgrade was to a Delta Fence I got on sale at Low's for $150.
> --=20
> Jack
> Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
> http://jbstein.com

Thanks, Jack, i'll look that up. The table saw was also handed down from G=
randpa. He bought it new somewhere between '60-'62. It's in fantastic sha=
pe! The only downside is ALL of the safety guards etc. are long gone. The=
top end of the fence has a tendency to move slightly when being locked dow=
n. I check the alignment every time I move the damn thing. I didn't think=
I could buy a new fence for a 50+ year old machine, and original parts are=
way out of my price range (if you can find them). Time for a new fence!

rr

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

22/10/2018 11:37 AM

On Saturday, October 20, 2018 at 7:31:39 PM UTC-5, Clark Moss wrote:
> What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness when using bench-dogs or other types of hold-fasts?
>
> I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher block. I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.

I believe a workbench should be solid and massive. Heavy so it does not move when you plane boards. My bench is about 2' x 8' and 2.5" thick. Red oak. It doesn't move. I wish I had made it an inch thicker.

CM

Clark Moss

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

23/10/2018 2:50 PM

Here's the BEFORE picture:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1jybVgNDodzRv14i9

Here's the AFTER picture:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VH2ngtHivxbgvZzF7

h

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

21/10/2018 4:56 PM


>>>> What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness
>>>>when using bench-dogs or other types of hold-fasts?
>>>> I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher block.
>>>> I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.
>>>>
>>> That is plenty thick. I use 3/4" because it is what I had but would
>>> prefer 1".
>>
>>
>> ... not 3/4 inch butcher block, I bet ?
>> John T.
>>
>
>No, plywood. If was a home made drafting table where I worked many
>years ago. When the didn't want it any more I converted it to a
>workbench. Free is a good price.


OP is probably OK with 1 1/4 butcher block -
1 3/4 is OK too ...
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=67722&cat=1,41637
John T.

EP

Ed Pawlowski

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

21/10/2018 1:19 PM

On 10/20/2018 8:31 PM, Clark Moss wrote:
> What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness when using bench-dogs or other types of hold-fasts?
>
> I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher block. I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.
>
That is plenty thick. I use 3/4" because it is what I had but would
prefer 1".

JC

J. Clarke

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

20/10/2018 8:39 PM

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 17:31:36 -0700 (PDT), Clark Moss
<[email protected]> wrote:

>What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness when using bench-dogs or other types of hold-fasts?
>
>I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher block. I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.

Thickness doesn't matter a whole lot for bench dogs. A Black and
Decker Workmate has a 3/4" thick top and they work fine. Where you
might have a problem is with the holdfasts--1.25 is a bit thin for
them.. Try them and see if they hold, if they don't then fasten a
block underneath and drill it through to increase the thickness.

You might find this of interest:
<http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/251/title/Some%20Tips%20on%20Using%20Our%20Gramercy%20Holdfasts>

k

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

23/10/2018 10:06 PM

On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:50:43 -0700 (PDT), Clark Moss
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Here's the BEFORE picture:
>https://photos.app.goo.gl/1jybVgNDodzRv14i9
>
>Here's the AFTER picture:
>https://photos.app.goo.gl/VH2ngtHivxbgvZzF7

Nice! I'm surprised at the direction of the boards.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

21/10/2018 11:34 AM

On 10/20/2018 7:31 PM, Clark Moss wrote:
> What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness when using bench-dogs or other types of hold-fasts?
>
> I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher block. I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.
>

My Festool Work table uses 3/4" MDF and it works fine. Mostly it will
depend on what size and kind of dogs you intend to use. Might be less
expensive to get a new type of hold down than to go thick for a surface.

Jj

Jack

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

23/10/2018 11:02 AM

On 10/22/2018 2:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday, October 20, 2018 at 7:31:39 PM UTC-5, Clark Moss wrote:
>> What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness when using bench-dogs or other types of hold-fasts?
>>
>> I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher block. I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.
>
> I believe a workbench should be solid and massive. Heavy so it does not move when you plane boards. My bench is about 2' x 8' and 2.5" thick. Red oak. It doesn't move. I wish I had made it an inch thicker.
>
I believe a workbench should contain drawers filled with tools. My
workbench top is 1.5" solid construction grade fir. You'd need a fork
lift to move it.

http://jbstein.com/Flick/bench04.JPG
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

Jj

Jack

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

23/10/2018 11:14 AM

On 10/23/2018 2:47 AM, Clark Moss wrote:
> Luckily it's edge grain butcher block. It's pine or fir, so it's gong to get beat up quick. But again... Free, and in better shape than the maple 1x8s on there now.
> Next I need to research dog hole spacing and how many you really need. I'm sure that depends on the project.

I built my bench in 1975 and it has a fir butcher block top I made out
of construction grade 2x4's ripped in half and glued up. I figured the
top would get beat up and would be easily and cheaply replaced or sanded
down. After 43 years of use and abuse, I never needed to replace it, or
sand it down.

All the wear and tear (not all that much considering it's cheap
softwood) is a romantic reminder of the 43 years of hard work spent
together and I wouldn't remotely consider replacing or removing it's
hard earned patina.

http://jbstein.com/Flick/bench03.JPG

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

Jj

Jack

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

24/10/2018 9:34 AM

On 10/23/2018 11:22 PM, Clark Moss wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 7:06:15 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:50:43 -0700 (PDT), Clark Moss
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's the BEFORE picture:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/1jybVgNDodzRv14i9
>>>
>>> Here's the AFTER picture:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/VH2ngtHivxbgvZzF7
>>
>> Nice! I'm surprised at the direction of the boards.
>
> I'm hoping that doesn't impact strength. These boards were glued up over 20 years ago... I had three panels and only needed to cut 1/2 inch or so off every side to get them all to fit.

Strength shouldn't be an issue, unless working on an elephant. At any
rate, it will be stronger in this orientation.

On a side note, I had the exact same table saw fence on my saw. Great
upgrade was to a Delta Fence I got on sale at Low's for $150.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

Jj

Jack

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

25/10/2018 9:51 AM

On 10/24/2018 12:11 PM, Clark Moss wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 6:34:16 AM UTC-7, Jack wrote:

>> On a side note, I had the exact same table saw fence on my saw. Great
>> upgrade was to a Delta Fence I got on sale at Low's for $150.
>> --
>> Jack
>> Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
>> http://jbstein.com
>
> Thanks, Jack, i'll look that up. The table saw was also handed down from Grandpa. He bought it new somewhere between '60-'62. It's in fantastic shape! The only downside is ALL of the safety guards etc. are long gone. The top end of the fence has a tendency to move slightly when being locked down. I check the alignment every time I move the damn thing. I didn't think I could buy a new fence for a 50+ year old machine, and original parts are way out of my price range (if you can find them). Time for a new fence!
>
My saw is about 10 years older than yours, and it has no safety
equipment. Personally, I think most of that safety crap is dangerous...

Anyway, I looked up the fence at Lowe's and it's now $219. It is night
and day from the lame fence that came with our saws. First it moves
easily and always locks down square, but the best thing is you can just
lift it off and on.

Installing it on my saw was not too difficult. The screws bolting it to
the saw were metric, and I just replaced them. Pretty sure I used the
screws from the original fence. I bolted one hole right to the fence,
and it was perfect height, amazing since the original was so dang old.
I had to drill a new hole in the fence to match threaded hole in the saw
table. That wasn't hard, but measuring had to be accurate. The rear
fence is not really needed at all, as all the locking is done from the
front.

You will not be disappointed with this fence, it's a good upgrade worth
every penny.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

Jj

Jack

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

25/10/2018 10:00 AM

On 10/24/2018 3:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 11:11:38 AM UTC-5, Clark Moss wrote:
>>
>> I didn't think I could buy a new fence for a 50+ year old machine, and original parts are way out of my price range (if you can find them). Time for a new fence!
>
>
> I suspect you could buy a new fence to fit the table saw very easily. Table saws have not changed much at all in about 50 years. The same parts that fit them 50 years ago still fit them today. I have a 25 year old Delta Contractor saw. I put a Biesemeyer fence on it 25 years ago. Today I could buy a Biesemeyer fence and install it the same. Nothing has changed in 25 years. And I'm pretty sure nothing has changed in 50 years either. The original Delta Unisaw from 1930 could fit a brand new Biesemeyer fence today. Or Delta's new table saw fence they invented 20 years ago. Unifence? Or any of the other new table saw fences. They all fit all old saws.
>
The old saw has a different hole pattern, although the height is
perfect. Also the threaded holes in the table are not metric. I had to
drill one new hole in the fence, and counter sink the holes in the fence
to use the original fence screws. Can't recall if I used the old screws
or bought new sae screws, but in general you are right, the fence fit
almost perfectly.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

BL

"Bob La Londe"

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

06/11/2018 9:55 AM

"Clark Moss" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness when using bench-dogs or
other types of hold-fasts?

I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher
block. I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.

******************
For well supported steel tops 1/4 inch works very nicely.

For plank and pin wood tops I'd say 2 inches. Again well supported.

h

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

21/10/2018 2:26 PM

On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 13:19:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 10/20/2018 8:31 PM, Clark Moss wrote:
>> What is the minimum recommended bench top thickness when using bench-dogs or other types of hold-fasts?
>>
>> I'm replacing the top of my work table with some 1.25 inch thick butcher block. I'd like to add some 3/4 inch holes for hold fasts.
>>
>That is plenty thick. I use 3/4" because it is what I had but would
>prefer 1".


... not 3/4 inch butcher block, I bet ?
John T.

h

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

22/10/2018 9:52 AM


>
>Free butcher block? Great I would think about using it also.
>BUT you will have the end grain up


That was my first thought also - until I looked up butcher block :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butcher_block

" two basic styles of butcher block: end grain and edge grain:

John T.

SW

Spalted Walt

in reply to Clark Moss on 20/10/2018 5:31 PM

23/10/2018 12:36 PM

Clark Moss <[email protected]> wrote:

> Next I need to research dog hole spacing and how many you really need. I'm sure that depends on the project.

Shannon Rogers' prospective.
YMMV...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjEK6sywHU8


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