I am just a weedend Builder, but I am not getting any luck with my
Delta TS200 Table saw (to many uneven cut from blade moving off square
all the time). I have decided to purchase a new one and just by looking
at closest HD store I have come up with the following choices based on
the $200 to $500 range.
Ryobi BT3100
Rigid TS2400LS
or Rigid TS3650
I know there is a big difference in Price range from the first to last.
But what would you experts say is the best for the money, or should I
be looking at something else. My basic want is to be able to rip a
sheet of plywood more that 12 inches.
bdeditch,
You've got a choice to make, but you really can't go wrong either way
if you follow through and learn correct techniques. If you can find a
local WWer to help you out in person with what others are telling you
here, it might be easier and quicker.
1=2E Getting a new TS. The Ryobi is probably the most economical yet
decent TS out there, and (but?) it is very innovative, and if you have
Luddite tendencies you may not take to it. DAGS using my name and Ryobi
and you'll read lots of threads discussing its pros and cons. To find
out just how innovative the Ryobi is, check out the web site devoted to
it by its affectionadoes: http://www.bt3central.com/
The Rigid models look pretty solid to me--they are a step up from the
Ryobi in regards to solidness, but that comes at a cost too. They've
got some proponents here.
You probably won't go wrong with either saw, provided that you learn to
use it well.
2=2E Circular saw with cutting platform (either foam panel on the ground
or frame on sawhorses) and a cutting guide ("sawboard"--alexy gave you
a nice link there). Don't discount this suggestion, which predominates
your thread. Many WWers with nice cabinet saws still use this method to
cut large sheets of plywood--it's the easier way unless you have very
large extensions with a sliding table.
Foam w/ guide is probably the easiest way to go, but if you opt for a
frame on sawhorses w/ a guide I can suggest a very easy alternative to
making the frame: go out and get a trashed panel-and-frame door ($5 at
most thrift stores, free at most dumps), take the panels out and you'll
have a great frame w/ straight-grained lumber. Beats all the 2x4 stuff
in quality and in ease of acquisition.
-----
No one has mentioned it yet, but if you want *really* accurate edges
then you'll have to get *really* accurate tools. It's hard to get a
finished edge w/ inexpensive TSs for large sheets of plywood. It can be
done, but good technique and a very good blade are the minimum
requirements. The circular saw method can also be made to work, with a
good guide, good technique, and a very good blade, but it may be easier
to cut a little proud, then clean up the cut with a router. I know that
means yet one more tool for you perhaps, but that's the way many (most)
WWers attack the same problem you face.
My 2=A2
H
Hi:
> I have decided to purchase a new one and just by looking
> at closest HD store I have come up with the following choices based on
> the $200 to $500 range.
>
> Ryobi BT3100
>
<snip>
Speaking only for myself...I bought the BT3100 a couple years ago, and
I'm pretty happy with it. My dream TS would be a DeWalt, a Jet, or a
nice Delta cabinet saw...but that's not going to be feasible, given the
limited amount of time I put into the hobby.
IIRC, I bought my Ryobi around Christmastime, and they had a special
deal that included some other stuff with the saw--a zero clearance
insert, etc. It may be worth waiting to see if you can score something
like that along with the saw...
Jim
Here's $.02 more - I've used my very old Skil circular saw with a good
Freud blade in birch plywood, against a straightedge clamp guide, with
excellent results - no visible chipping. Have fun with your new TS,
but for big ply, I'd agree that a circ saw with a good blade and a
straightedge or sawboard is the way to go. Make sure you cut it with
the good face down (circ saw) or up (TS), and you can try covering the
cut line with masking tape - I've read this can help reduce chipping
with melamine etc, but I've never had chipping problems since I got the
Freud blade.
Andy
"bdeditch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The thing is I am building display cases. So the Circular saw is out of
> the question, I want something that is more precise in cutting. My
> delta saw has a problem with the edge guide which cant seem to be fixed
> and there is not enough space to rip a sheet more than 12 inches wide.
> I need a step up.
Perhaps a combination of things. Rough cut to a manageable size on hte
floor with the circular saw, then finish cut on a table saw.
If cutting plywood is the majority of work you do, consider building a large
table around it to support the sheet goods.
"bdeditch" <[email protected]> wrote:
>The thing is I am building display cases. So the Circular saw is out of
>the question, I want something that is more precise in cutting. My
>delta saw has a problem with the edge guide which cant seem to be fixed
>and there is not enough space to rip a sheet more than 12 inches wide.
>I need a step up.
Don't be so quick to dismiss the circular saw. See this page for a
"saw board" guide that you could use on the foam sheet to get very
straight and precise cuts:
http://members.aol.com/woodmiser1/sawbd.htm
And check out this page for a frame type folding cutting table if you
prefer not to work on the floor:
http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/panel_cutting_table.htm
I think a circular saw with a good shop-built guide will probably give
you more precise and straighter cuts than you can get man-handling a
4x8 sheet through any but the largest table saw.
I've heard good things about the BT3100, but if you definitely want to
use the tables saw for big panels, I'd go with as large a table and as
heavy a saw as you can get.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
"bdeditch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am just a weedend Builder, but I am not getting any luck with my
> Delta TS200 Table saw (to many uneven cut from blade moving off square
> all the time). I have decided to purchase a new one and just by looking
> at closest HD store I have come up with the following choices based on
> the $200 to $500 range.
>
> Ryobi BT3100
>
> Rigid TS2400LS
>
> or Rigid TS3650
>
> I know there is a big difference in Price range from the first to last.
> But what would you experts say is the best for the money, or should I
> be looking at something else. My basic want is to be able to rip a
> sheet of plywood more that 12 inches.
>
If plywood is the primary material you cut, forget the table saw. Just go to
a sheet of foamboard for backing. And do all you cutting with a circular saw
with a good edge guide. There are some good ones out there and they vary in
price and features. But you should be able to afford it if you are going to
spend the money mentioned above.
I would also spend some more time to troubleshoot your present saw. It may
not be the best, but it probably can be made to work.
"B a r r y" wrote
> Lee Michaels wrote:
>>
>> If plywood is the primary material you cut, forget the table saw. Just go
>> to a sheet of foamboard for backing. And do all you cutting with a
>> circular saw with a good edge guide. There are some good ones out there
>> and they vary in price and features. But you should be able to afford it
>> if you are going to spend the money mentioned above.
>
> I'll second the foam board on the floor method..
>
> You can kneel right on the ply as you cut, and you don't have to worry
> about pinched kerfs or where the offcut is going, as you do with horses.
>
> If you're careful about the saw depth, the foam will last a long, long
> time, sheets are very easily transported. My cutting boards are cut down
> to 2'x 4', for easy storage.
>
I have seen a couple of very nice setups for this that were mounted onto saw
horses. This would not work if you did not have enough room to store the
big bottom peice. The ones I saw had 2 X 4 frames with some kind of light
sheet tacked to it. Probably hardboard or 1/4' ply.
It was heavy and cumbersome. And if you had to make a cut down the middle,
you had to crawl up on the plywood anyway. It is probably easier to just do
it on the floor. And invest in some good knee pads.
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> David <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I've tried "zero insert" plates on my Makita circular saw with a
>>> fancy blade and you know what? I still can't get the chip free
>>> results I get on my Uni outfitted with a double sided Freud Melamine
>>> blade. :) Somehow, something gets lost in the translation...
>>>
>>> I use the handheld saw for preliminary cuts, but for the "money"
>>> cuts, it's on to the Uni.
>>>
>>> Maybe you've had better luck doing it with a circular saw than I
>>> have.
>>>
>>
>> About two hours ago I made several crosscuts in 1" melamine faced OSB
>> using
>> an old B&D with an $8 Oldham 140 tooth plywood blade from The Borg.
>> No prep
>> other than a guide - no scoring, no tape, no ZCI. And no chips. Edges
>> were so sharp I had to knock them down with a file right away to keep
>> them from slicing open body parts. I Know it's not my technique,
>> maybe it's that cheapo blade?
>
> I am a big believer in plywood blades for plywood. The do a good job.
> they just dull quickly. If I am doing a job that requires good cuts,
> I buy a blade for it. As long as I just use it for that job, I am OK.
>
> I get good cuts from it. I am NOT making fine furniture.
Yep, and at eight bucks they do the job!
I'm trying to think of the last time I saw melamine faced Fine Furniture.
:o)
>
>
>
>
bdeditch wrote:
> The thing is I am building display cases. So the Circular saw is out of
> the question, I want something that is more precise in cutting. My
> delta saw has a problem with the edge guide which cant seem to be fixed
> and there is not enough space to rip a sheet more than 12 inches wide.
> I need a step up.
I bought a Ridgid saw (TS2424) some years ago and have never had reason to
regret it. I have tricked it up quite a bit from stock configuration: router
wing added with lift, additional extended right handed wing, overhead guard,
dust collection from above and below, and fold away outfeed table. It takes
care of my needs quite well.
http://home.carolina.rr.com/jayhanig/table saw1.jpg
It's been my experience here that the Ridgid naysayers here have never used one.
Their opinions are formed on the basis of a poorly setup saw on display at the
borg or by their delight in what they already bought, precluding all others from
acceptability.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
> "bdeditch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>The thing is I am building display cases. So the Circular saw is out of
>>the question, I want something that is more precise in cutting. My
>>delta saw has a problem with the edge guide which cant seem to be fixed
>>and there is not enough space to rip a sheet more than 12 inches wide.
>>I need a step up.
>>
>
>
> Ok, I have to ask - what's imprecise about a circular saw? It takes less
> than an hour to build a good guide for a circular saw that will serve for
> years and is a precise as any table saw. Unless you have a table saw with
> massive extensions and the oomph to hump the plywood sheets around, the
> table saw is the wrong tool to use. Money is the answer. With enough of it
> you can set up any size table saw you could ever want, but if money is an
> object - and it appears it is if I remember the list of saws you're looking
> at, then reconsider the circular saw.
>
I've tried "zero insert" plates on my Makita circular saw with a fancy
blade and you know what? I still can't get the chip free results I get
on my Uni outfitted with a double sided Freud Melamine blade. :)
Somehow, something gets lost in the translation...
I use the handheld saw for preliminary cuts, but for the "money" cuts,
it's on to the Uni.
Maybe you've had better luck doing it with a circular saw than I have.
dave
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote
> David <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I've tried "zero insert" plates on my Makita circular saw with a fancy
>> blade and you know what? I still can't get the chip free results I get
>> on my Uni outfitted with a double sided Freud Melamine blade. :)
>> Somehow, something gets lost in the translation...
>>
>> I use the handheld saw for preliminary cuts, but for the "money" cuts,
>> it's on to the Uni.
>>
>> Maybe you've had better luck doing it with a circular saw than I have.
>>
>
> About two hours ago I made several crosscuts in 1" melamine faced OSB
> using
> an old B&D with an $8 Oldham 140 tooth plywood blade from The Borg. No
> prep
> other than a guide - no scoring, no tape, no ZCI. And no chips. Edges were
> so sharp I had to knock them down with a file right away to keep them from
> slicing open body parts. I Know it's not my technique, maybe it's that
> cheapo blade?
I am a big believer in plywood blades for plywood. The do a good job. they
just dull quickly. If I am doing a job that requires good cuts, I buy a
blade for it. As long as I just use it for that job, I am OK.
I get good cuts from it. I am NOT making fine furniture.
Lee Michaels wrote:
>
> If plywood is the primary material you cut, forget the table saw. Just go to
> a sheet of foamboard for backing. And do all you cutting with a circular saw
> with a good edge guide. There are some good ones out there and they vary in
> price and features. But you should be able to afford it if you are going to
> spend the money mentioned above.
I'll second the foam board on the floor method..
You can kneel right on the ply as you cut, and you don't have to worry
about pinched kerfs or where the offcut is going, as you do with horses.
If you're careful about the saw depth, the foam will last a long, long
time, sheets are very easily transported. My cutting boards are cut
down to 2'x 4', for easy storage.
David <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've tried "zero insert" plates on my Makita circular saw with a fancy
> blade and you know what? I still can't get the chip free results I get
> on my Uni outfitted with a double sided Freud Melamine blade. :)
> Somehow, something gets lost in the translation...
>
> I use the handheld saw for preliminary cuts, but for the "money" cuts,
> it's on to the Uni.
>
> Maybe you've had better luck doing it with a circular saw than I have.
>
About two hours ago I made several crosscuts in 1" melamine faced OSB using
an old B&D with an $8 Oldham 140 tooth plywood blade from The Borg. No prep
other than a guide - no scoring, no tape, no ZCI. And no chips. Edges were
so sharp I had to knock them down with a file right away to keep them from
slicing open body parts. I Know it's not my technique, maybe it's that
cheapo blade?
> The thing is I am building display cases. So the Circular saw is out of
> the question, I want something that is more precise in cutting.
If you use a "saw board" and a good plywood blade, you can make cuts just
as accurate as a tablesaw. Here's one example I found with a quick google
search: http://members.aol.com/woodmiser1/sawbd.htm
Anthony
"bdeditch" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1133268446.439400.8070
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> I am just a weedend Builder, but I am not getting any luck with my
> Delta TS200 Table saw (to many uneven cut from blade moving off square
> all the time).
That is the typical performance of a "benchtop" saw. You shouldn't
expect anything different from any other brand in that style.
> Ryobi BT3100
>
> Rigid TS2400LS
>
> or Rigid TS3650
>
> I know there is a big difference in Price range from the first to last.
> But what would you experts say is the best for the money,
Of that list, I'd say the Ridgid TS3650. But I would suggest also
looking at the Delta and Jet contractors saws.
> or should I
> be looking at something else. My basic want is to be able to rip a
> sheet of plywood more that 12 inches.
You will definately want a contractors saw or better to handle
plywood. Even then, you'll likely want to build extension tables
around it, if you'll be working with full sheets.
As others have suggested, when looking at something as large & heavy
as a sheet of plywood, it's a lot easier to leave the wood stationary
and move the saw, rather than vice-versa.
John
"bdeditch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The thing is I am building display cases. So the Circular saw is out of
> the question, I want something that is more precise in cutting. My
> delta saw has a problem with the edge guide which cant seem to be fixed
> and there is not enough space to rip a sheet more than 12 inches wide.
> I need a step up.
>
Ok, I have to ask - what's imprecise about a circular saw? It takes less
than an hour to build a good guide for a circular saw that will serve for
years and is a precise as any table saw. Unless you have a table saw with
massive extensions and the oomph to hump the plywood sheets around, the
table saw is the wrong tool to use. Money is the answer. With enough of it
you can set up any size table saw you could ever want, but if money is an
object - and it appears it is if I remember the list of saws you're looking
at, then reconsider the circular saw.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
bdeditch wrote:
> I am just a weedend Builder, but I am not getting any luck with my
> Delta TS200 Table saw (to many uneven cut from blade moving off square
> all the time). I have decided to purchase a new one and just by looking
> at closest HD store I have come up with the following choices based on
> the $200 to $500 range.
>
> Ryobi BT3100
>
> Rigid TS2400LS
>
> or Rigid TS3650
>
> I know there is a big difference in Price range from the first to last.
> But what would you experts say is the best for the money, or should I
> be looking at something else. My basic want is to be able to rip a
> sheet of plywood more that 12 inches.
Sounds like time is of the essence but if you had more. I bought a Jet
cabinet saw with the extended table, mobile base, frued daddo, cmt blade
and a few other options off ebay for 400.00. It was used a total of 10
times to cut plywood. Not a scratch on it, no rust on the cast iron table
and in my opinion perfect shape.
You might look at ebay
Rich
--
"you can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
>
> Don't be so quick to dismiss the circular saw. See this page for a
> "saw board" guide that you could use on the foam sheet to get very
> straight and precise cuts:
> http://members.aol.com/woodmiser1/sawbd.htm
> And check out this page for a frame type folding cutting table if you
> prefer not to work on the floor:
> http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/panel_cutting_table.htm
>
> I think a circular saw with a good shop-built guide will probably give
> you more precise and straighter cuts than you can get man-handling a
> 4x8 sheet through any but the largest table saw.
>
I've used a sawboard and circ saw with a finishing blade for cutting
some wood doors to size. I almost prefer that method to a table saw now
for most things.
In article <[email protected]>,
alexy <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think a circular saw with a good shop-built guide will probably give
> you more precise and straighter cuts than you can get man-handling a
> 4x8 sheet through any but the largest table saw.
fact!
I manhandle 30" x 144" (sometimes 200 pounds each) all day.
I learned to live with 'taking the tool to the job' years ago (1986) when I
first built my first Corian top.
A sawboard or, as I use, a 12' aluminum 6" wide straight edge. 1/4" thick works.
I also have some deadnuts straight store-bought ones.
After that, make sure your blade runs parallel to the shoe of the saw and that
it runs vertical.
I assure you, that I can take a 1/2" strip off a 12-foot slab of acrylic with
more accuracy that sliding that slab through a big saw.
Can$ 0.02
In article <[email protected]>,
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote:
> It's been my experience here that the Ridgid naysayers here have never used
> one.
> Their opinions are formed on the basis of a poorly setup saw on display at
> the
> borg or by their delight in what they already bought, precluding all others
> from
> acceptability.
Wise words. Too many preconceived ideas, no true experience from the nay-sayers.
I can go on for a week yakking on about how much I appreciate my TS2400LS. It
fits my needs exactly. Fold it up, toss it in the van, off I go.
There are a few 10-foot sliders with 14" blade saws,(one Altendorf, one SCM)
with scoring set-ups at my disposal if I need a 'saw'. When I need something
that nuts, even a General 650 won't be good enough. (Mind you, if I could have
(have access to) only ONE saw...that would be the 650. I have used it..it's a
beast.
"hylourgos" wrote
No one has mentioned it yet, but if you want *really* accurate edges
then you'll have to get *really* accurate tools. It's hard to get a
finished edge w/ inexpensive TSs for large sheets of plywood. It can be
done, but good technique and a very good blade are the minimum
requirements. The circular saw method can also be made to work, with a
good guide, good technique, and a very good blade, but it may be easier
to cut a little proud, then clean up the cut with a router. I know that
means yet one more tool for you perhaps, but that's the way many (most)
WWers attack the same problem you face.
-----
Another comment I would make about making accurate cuts on a small (cheap)
tablesaw is that I could only do it if I had some good help. And the
qualifier is good. I screwed up some good wood by having somebody help me
who was not able to help with the cut without moving the wood in a way that
compromised the cut.
David wrote:
> I've tried "zero insert" plates on my Makita circular saw with a fancy
> blade and you know what? I still can't get the chip free results I get
> on my Uni outfitted with a double sided Freud Melamine blade. :)
> Somehow, something gets lost in the translation...
Did you try the circular saw with the good side down? This allows the
entering teeth to be striking the good side, just like cutting face up
on a table saw.
If so, please disregard.
Barry
bdeditch wrote:
> The thing is I am building display cases. So the Circular saw is out of=
> the question, I want something that is more precise in cutting. My
> delta saw has a problem with the edge guide which cant seem to be fixed=
> and there is not enough space to rip a sheet more than 12 inches wide.
> I need a step up.
>=20
Have a look at the Ryobi Setup on my web site.
I have done desks and drawers with Oak plywood and Oak trim -- sounds=20
similar. I do use a circular saw and edge guide to get the pieces to=20
manageable size -- but all the final cuts are done with the table saws=20
or a router. You do need the precision for desks, drawers cabinets and=20
jewel boxes...
http://woodwork.pmccl.com/Business/infobusiness/shop/shop.html
Just get the table extension and build the outfeed table. An infeed=20
table (or rollers) is the next step.
Have a look at the desk. It might give you some ides of what you can do=20
with the saw.
http://woodwork.pmccl.com/Business/productsbusiness/productsfurniture.htm=
l
There are some cabinets on the site as well.
I do use the router on the side table, and I have modified the fence in=20
their accessories kit so I have a longer and higher split fence -- I=20
just set it up with a thick three foot ruler...
Also check
http://bt3central.com/
They have a lot of information on the BT3K. Check the forum for a good=20
discussion of the pros and cons...
Whatever you get you will make it work. We all do that. :-)
--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw