I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
2nd bench.
If anyone is curious, here's a link.
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why I
modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
until after I finish painting in the spring.
I'm still working on the lighting situation (some things you can't see
include the access port to the attic and the garage door).
Comments are welcome (of course). You know who you are who have taught
me a thing or three. Thank you!
Bill
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:20:12 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
>two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
>to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
>2nd bench.
>
>If anyone is curious, here's a link.
>
>http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
Cool.
>I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why I
>modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
>electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
>until after I finish painting in the spring.
Long bench looks too close to shorter bench. Drag it left and put an
end vise on 'er, wot?
>I'm still working on the lighting situation (some things you can't see
>include the access port to the attic and the garage door).
Looks a bit too dense right now if everything is proportional. Check
out daylight bulbs. They're much brighter and whiter than the standard
soft whites. You can get them from electrical distributors much more
cheaply than any other store.
Paint the walls, ceiling, and floor with an eggshell -pure- white and
it will double the available light, plus make it easier to find those
stray pieces of hardware which hit the floor with a "Pinnnnnnng! ting
ting tang bump tingtingting rattle."
--
If you're looking for the key to the Universe,
I've got some good news and some bad news.
The bad news: There is no key to the Universe.
The good news: It was never locked.
--Swami Beyondananda
Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
> two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one
> ready to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew
> this was a 2nd bench.
>
> If anyone is curious, here's a link.
>
> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>
> I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why
> I modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
> electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
> until after I finish painting in the spring.
>
> I'm still working on the lighting situation (some things you can't see
> include the access port to the attic and the garage door).
>
> Comments are welcome (of course). You know who you are who have
> taught me a thing or three. Thank you!
>
> Bill
>
How far are the two doors? One thing I really wish I had in my garshop
was some form of switchable light near the back door so I could see to
get across to the front door. (Or simply get to the battery charger.)
I used some threaded inserts to make my vise removable. It doesn't get
moved much, but since it's at the end of my CMS stand I sometimes need
to take it out. If you wanted to do something similar, and make the
bench on the side mobile, you could possibly use it as an infeed or
outfeed table for the saw.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.
On 2010-10-25 16:07:36 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> said:
> I'm assuming that T-8 is the best choice, but have not decided whether
> to go with the 4-bulb or 2-bulb (4 foot) fixtures. What factors do you
> think should affect my choice concerning this, besides price
> (obviously!).
The Indy Habitat for Humanity surplus store had a whole slew of T-5
fixtures (w/bulbs), new, in-box, when I was in there a month of so ago.
Don't remember the pricing, but it didn't strike me as much more the
the bare-nekkid flourescent fixtures at Lowes.
These had grating over the bulbs, which might be a asset in a shop.
On 2010-10-25 01:20:12 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> said:
> I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
> two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one
> ready to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this
> was a 2nd bench.
You really don't need a second bench just for a machinist's vice. Just
take a board the same depth as the jaws on your wood vice, screw & glue
a second board perpendicular to the first, and mount your metalworking
vice to the second (i.e., horizontal) board. Don't need to use the
metal vice? Unclamp it and stow it away.
Now, perhaps you're using the "need" for this extra vice to justify a
second workbench to someone (does your wife pay the bills?), in which
case, never mind.
"Bill" wrote:
> This is what I was looking at (Lithonia Lighting Square White Basket
> 2-Bulb 32 Watt T8 Wraparound Lens Ceiling Fixture)
>
> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100427375&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&PID=3523498&ci_sku=100427375&ci_src=10043468&cm_mmc=CJ-_-3523498-_-10368321&AID=10368321&cj=true&locStoreNum=2019&marketID=276
--------------------------------
Great dust collector when used in a shop.
Lew
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:29:30 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/28/2010 9:11 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>The nice thing about fluor fixtures is that you can move them
>> around and add more if necessary. Mine are on 2" chains from a higher,
>> (9') ceiling. If you get the style with the reflector, they can be
>> bent out some to allow a better distribution of the light in the
>> shop, too. Put them on a carpeted area and apply a forearm or
>> crepe-soled shoe and they uncurl pretty easily.
>
>Hmmm..my ceiling are 9' too. I hadn't considered using chains. I assume
>you mean chains that are 2 feet in length above?
They came with chains and metal grates, which I've bumped a couple
times. And that's two inches, not feet. They hug the ceiling.
>I thought about it in my sleep, evidently. I woke and it occurred to me
>hat the "best" way to power my fixtures may be to install two duplex
>outlets on the perimeter of my attic, and plug them in there. That's
>much like Lew suggested, except my wiring would be in the attic.
I had a duplex pointing down from the ceiling, and there was a quad
box on top (filled with insulation, unfinished attic) to which I added
outlets. I knocked holes in the sheetrock and pulled the plugs for the
lights through, then sealed the holes. If I had it to do over, I'd
have added that quad beneath, facing the shop, and let the fixture
wiring show. Replacement would have been much easier in the future.
>Assume that the 5' cords on the fixtures don't quite reach (especially
>possible with a 2' chain).
It wouldn't have fit with 2', but the 2" hug keeps them out of my way
and gave me enough cord.
>I assume it's preferable to install a longer
>cord on the fixture than to use an extension cords. I'm not sure why I
>believe this--except that certain pieces of machinery are recommended to
>be powered directly (no plug). Of course, lighting amperages being very
>small, this may be like comparing apples and oranges.
Yeah, just plug and play.
>Are the fixtures
>generally designed so that one can replace the cord (easily) with a
>screwdriver (or would you use extension cords)?
Yes, cord replacement is a snap. Pair of pliers to remove the strain
relief, a couple wire nuts, and a ground screw.
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
On 10/28/2010 2:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> I had a duplex pointing down from the ceiling, and there was a quad
> box on top (filled with insulation, unfinished attic) to which I added
> outlets. I knocked holes in the sheetrock and pulled the plugs for the
> lights through, then sealed the holes. If I had it to do over, I'd
> have added that quad beneath, facing the shop, and let the fixture
> wiring show. Replacement would have been much easier in the future.
It's nice to get the benefit of the voice of experience.
The only thing that makes me hesitate is my finished ceiling. If I
install duplex outlets in the ceiling, they will necessarily be "cut in
box" variety that attach to the drywall, and I can see myself replacing
the ceiling within the next 10 years. I'll have to wait for the dust to
settle and see what I think. A few minutes ago, I was thinking,
excitedly, gosh I'm going to have Lights AND Electric. : ) Reminds me
of the kind of thinking that must have taken place in the early part of
the 20th century. Maybe I'll even have Plumbing someday! ; )
Thanks,
Bill
"Bill" wrote:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100427375&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&PID=3523498&ci_sku=100427375&ci_src=10043468&cm_mmc=CJ-_-3523498-_-10368321&AID=10368321&cj=true&locStoreNum=2019&marketID=276--------------------------------> Hmmm..I just got back from HD to take another look and they omitted> the mention of that feature. ; ) Lowes was closed..lol------------------------Better choice for a shopLithonia Lighting 2-Light Flush-Mount Industrial Fluorescent LightModel # L 2 32 120 GESB Internet # 100165074Store SKU # 255031$38.96/EA-EachLew
Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:51:01 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> I went to Lowes today, and they had lots of fixtures, but not many
>>> like I wanted, and I couldn't tell the features they had (only one
>>> with an "enclosure"/reflector for instance). Perhaps all of the
>>> fixtures were of the same brand. I stood there for 15 minutes to see
>>> if someone would offer to help me, but they didn't, and I left
>>> thinking it probably wasn't a quality brand anyway. They did have a
>>> stack of 4' 2-bulb T-12 fixtures on sale for 9.97--of the same brand
>>> too! Putting two and two together, it made me wonder how good any
>>> of those fixtures is.
>>
>> RUN AWAY! In what city do yo live, again?
>
> Thanks for the warning. I was hoping someone would advise me one way
> or the other. It could have been the "bargain of the month" and I
> didn't know it.... I live close to Indianapolis, how about you?
>
> Bill
>
I picked up some of the $10 fixtures from Lowes some time ago. They're
just ok... until I turn the CMS on. Then they blink off and on and
become a sudden distraction. As a result, they don't get used very
often... Too bad, I like the extra light.
One of these days, I'll run a new circuit for those lights and a switch
on the wall. It's not a big enough hassle to be high on the project
list.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:51:01 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> WAITAMINUTEHERE. If you didn't yet know how many light fixtures you
>>> wanted on the ceiling, how could you run wiring at all?
>>>
>>
>> Well, from my new but currently unactivated sub-panel, I have installed
>> a 15 amp circuit breaker and 12-2 Romex to a new wall switch, and from
>
> Why only 15?
>
Well, because it was a lighting circuit? I've seen I can switch a
C'Breaker in less time than it takes to get the cover off the panel, so
this is not a big deal.
<thoughtful I idea snipped>
>> I need to take accurate measurements of some details so I can "commit"
>> to a diagram, then I may be almost good to do.
>
> Butcha just can't commit, can ya? Bwahahahahaha!
Actually, I'm in a hurry to commit so I can start installing lights!
(We) Made a lot of progress in that direction this week.
>
>
>> I went to Lowes today, and they had lots of fixtures, but not many like
>> I wanted, and I couldn't tell the features they had (only one with an
>> "enclosure"/reflector for instance). Perhaps all of the fixtures were of
>> the same brand. I stood there for 15 minutes to see if someone would
>> offer to help me, but they didn't, and I left thinking it probably
>> wasn't a quality brand anyway. They did have a stack of 4' 2-bulb T-12
>> fixtures on sale for 9.97--of the same brand too! Putting two and two
>> together, it made me wonder how good any of those fixtures is.
>
> RUN AWAY! In what city do yo live, again?
Thanks for the warning. I was hoping someone would advise me one way or
the other. It could have been the "bargain of the month" and I didn't
know it.... I live close to Indianapolis, how about you?
Bill
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:51:01 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> WAITAMINUTEHERE. If you didn't yet know how many light fixtures you
>> wanted on the ceiling, how could you run wiring at all?
>>
>
>Well, from my new but currently unactivated sub-panel, I have installed
>a 15 amp circuit breaker and 12-2 Romex to a new wall switch, and from
Why only 15?
>there 12-2 Romex up into the attic where at least 30' of it is now
>sitting in a neat coil. From there it will easily thread around the
>perimeter of the attic where other romex cables currently also live.
>This route also traverses my new running board but allow me to keep my
>story simple.
>Installing 2, or possibly 3, duplex outlets on this perimeter of the
>attic would make it easy to power 4 new fixtures.
>
>In answer to your question, I think I'm prepared to install almost as
>many light fixtures as I want, as long as their cords are not further
>than 5 feet from my walls.
Are your rafters running the short length, door to the benches? If
so, run a piece of romex down into the space and install a quad outlet
for every row, centered in the ceiling. Plug 3 fixtures into each one
and have a spare for extension cord drops to the center of the shop.
(I use the hell out of my duplex outlet that way. Running to a power
strip, I have the little HF drill press, my Shop Fox mortiser, and the
Delta 1" belt/6" disk sander plugged into it.) Choose how you power
them (should you wish to go to a second circuit. ;)
>I need to take accurate measurements of some details so I can "commit"
>to a diagram, then I may be almost good to do.
Butcha just can't commit, can ya? Bwahahahahaha!
>I went to Lowes today, and they had lots of fixtures, but not many like
>I wanted, and I couldn't tell the features they had (only one with an
>"enclosure"/reflector for instance). Perhaps all of the fixtures were of
>the same brand. I stood there for 15 minutes to see if someone would
>offer to help me, but they didn't, and I left thinking it probably
>wasn't a quality brand anyway. They did have a stack of 4' 2-bulb T-12
>fixtures on sale for 9.97--of the same brand too! Putting two and two
>together, it made me wonder how good any of those fixtures is.
RUN AWAY! In what city do yo live, again?
--
Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come
alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs
is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman
On 2010-10-26 20:09:57 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> said:
> Mennards--priced best.
> Home Depot -- 10% higher
> Lowes --20% higher.
Menard's is a more-depressing place to shop that Walmart. And filthy --
even for a hardware store-cum-lumberyard.
"Bill" wrote:
> The description says: "This light is ideal for areas requiring
> low-to-medium light levels including utility rooms and storage
> areas."
>
> Does the description indicate it's suitable for "low-to-medium light
> levels", rather than "high" light levels because it lacks a
> lens/cover to diffuse the light?
------------------------------
You need a luminaire with a down shade that provides about 5% uplight.
Yes today you want F32T8 lamps and electronic ballasts.
Use either of the following shop lights:
HBSL-35, $24.83
HBSL-25G, $22.68
Both are equipped with a pull chain switch and a 5 ft cord and plug.
Run conduit with receptacles on ceiling and you are good to go.
1 luminaire for every 35 sq ft will give you 71 FC maintained with a
20% dirt depreciation allowance.
You just got a free lighting design, enjoy it.
Lew
On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 14:03:33 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:51:01 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>
>>>> WAITAMINUTEHERE. If you didn't yet know how many light fixtures you
>>>> wanted on the ceiling, how could you run wiring at all?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, from my new but currently unactivated sub-panel, I have installed
>>> a 15 amp circuit breaker and 12-2 Romex to a new wall switch, and from
>>
>> Why only 15?
>>
>
>Well, because it was a lighting circuit? I've seen I can switch a
>C'Breaker in less time than it takes to get the cover off the panel, so
>this is not a big deal.
As long as you have the wiring for it, which 12ga is.
><thoughtful I idea snipped>
>
>
>>> I need to take accurate measurements of some details so I can "commit"
>>> to a diagram, then I may be almost good to do.
>>
>> Butcha just can't commit, can ya? Bwahahahahaha!
>
>Actually, I'm in a hurry to commit so I can start installing lights!
>(We) Made a lot of progress in that direction this week.
You and your wallet, or the woman with the whip? <gd&r>
>>> I went to Lowes today, and they had lots of fixtures, but not many like
>>> I wanted, and I couldn't tell the features they had (only one with an
>>> "enclosure"/reflector for instance). Perhaps all of the fixtures were of
>>> the same brand. I stood there for 15 minutes to see if someone would
>>> offer to help me, but they didn't, and I left thinking it probably
>>> wasn't a quality brand anyway. They did have a stack of 4' 2-bulb T-12
>>> fixtures on sale for 9.97--of the same brand too! Putting two and two
>>> together, it made me wonder how good any of those fixtures is.
>>
>> RUN AWAY! In what city do yo live, again?
>
>Thanks for the warning. I was hoping someone would advise me one way or
>the other. It could have been the "bargain of the month" and I didn't
>know it.... I live close to Indianapolis, how about you?
Grants Pass, OR.
http://www.google.com/search?q=electrical+supply+indianapolis should
help you find your way, lost lamb.
--
Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises.
-- Demosthenes
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 14:03:33 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:51:01 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> WAITAMINUTEHERE. If you didn't yet know how many light fixtures you
>>>>> wanted on the ceiling, how could you run wiring at all?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, from my new but currently unactivated sub-panel, I have installed
>>>> a 15 amp circuit breaker and 12-2 Romex to a new wall switch, and from
>>>
>>> Why only 15?
>>>
>>
>> Well, because it was a lighting circuit? I've seen I can switch a
>> C'Breaker in less time than it takes to get the cover off the panel, so
>> this is not a big deal.
>
> As long as you have the wiring for it, which 12ga is.
This summer, I bought 250' of 12-2 and 250' of 10-2. I was not in short
supply of either. However what I ended up using was much more than I
guessed I needed, so this ended up being a good purchase. I'd advise
anyone sizing up his or her requirements to do the same.
"Bill" wrote:
> I assume I can wire those fixtures with romex instead.
------------------------------
No, you can't run romex exposed.
If you don't want to bend metal conduit, then run 3/4" plastic,
surface mounted on ceiling.
Use octagon box with duplex receptacle cover, and molded off sets in
and out of octagon boxes.
No conduit bender involved, just a hacksaw and some Oatey "Purple"
solvent and glue.
Devote a 2P-20A C'Bkr to lighting with alternate luminaries fed from
opposite phase to minimize the strobe effect of fluorescent lighting.
Especially where rotating equipment is in use.
Arrange as follows:
Row 1: A-B-A-B-A
Row 2: B-A-B-A-B
Row 3: A-B-A-B-A
Where:
A = L1-N
B = L2-N
Very easy to do if you pull "L1", "L2", an "N" in the same pipe.
Have fun.
Lew
On 2010-10-27 01:23:47 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> said:
> And filthy --
>> even for a hardware store-cum-lumberyard.
>>
>
> I don't remember seeing anything there that made me feel that way.
> What did you see that upset you?
Perhaps you're shopping at a better class of Menard's store -- my most
recent expereince was W 38 & I-465... When I first moved to Indy 35
years ago*, I lived just a couple blocks from there. Guess you could
say the area has declined somewhat.
*Damn! where does the time go?
How much actual space between table saw and the bench ???
Remember, long pieces require the same space coming and going.
If those panels on the floor are 4' in width, you have just over 8' to
start any sort of rip operation. Outfeed area always surprises people
in their design. Imagine ripping an entire sheet of plywood and how
much space that takes.
On 10/25/2010 1:20 AM, Bill wrote:
> I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
> two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
> to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
> 2nd bench.
>
> If anyone is curious, here's a link.
>
> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> On 10/25/2010 8:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:20:12 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
> >> two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
> >> to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
> >> 2nd bench.
> >>
> >> If anyone is curious, here's a link.
> >>
> >> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
> >
> > Cool.
> >
> >
> >> I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why I
> >> modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
> >> electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
> >> until after I finish painting in the spring.
> >
> > Long bench looks too close to shorter bench. Drag it left and put an
> > end vise on 'er, wot?
>
> I was trying to comply with NEC:
>
> Article 110.26(A)(2) - Specifies that the width of the working
> space in front of the electrical equipment (my sub-panel) shall be the
> width of the equipment or 30 in. (762 mm), whichever is
> greater.
Is it 30 inches from the right edge of the smaller panel to the door?
If so you're covered.
In any case, if the bench is movable it doesn't count as far as code
goes. The empty space has to pass inspection, not the space with all
portable furnishings in place. If you're putting a bank vault in front
of the panel that's another story, but a work bench that one person can
easily drag out of the way isn't any more of a code issue than sticking
your stool under the panel would be.
> Not only that, but I believe the "workspace" needs to extends 36"
> outward too.
>
> Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
> follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
> not yet.
>
> Bill
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> On 10/26/2010 12:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
> >>>> follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
> >>>> not yet.
> >>>
> >>> You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.
> >>
> >> Larry,
> >>
> >> Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
> >> and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
> >> brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
> >> environment?
> >
> > Check them out at a lighting store.
>
> :: Lots of useful stuff and a chicken wing snipped :::
>
>
> I was looking at the "wrap around" style lights at Home Depot.
> They were 32W units. Then when I looked at the bulbs I thought I wanted
> to use, they were 40W. It could be that the 40W were T-12, I don't
> recall. They didn't have any 40W "wrap around" style light fixtures on
> hand. Could you help me resolve my confusion about this?
By "wrap around" do you mean "circline" (google that and you'll find
some pictures)?
If so, the standard sizes are 22 watt 8 inch diameter, 32 watt 12 inch,
and 40 watt 16 inch--they're sized so that a fixture can be made that
takes the three bulbs nested together. There are also some oddballs
that have two tubes in one unit and the like but they're relatively
rare.
40 watt circline fixtures are rare--they aren't enough smaller than a
2x20w straight tube fixture to be worthwhile.
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 22:23:07 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Bill wrote:
>> I've already installed a
>> new switch on the wall, and have 12-2 running through the switch with
>> plenty up in the attic just for this application.
>
>Planning four T8-32W 2-bulb fixtures running in parallel from 1 hot
>through a switch.
>
>Anything inherently wrong with this model?
Nope. The nice thing about fluor fixtures is that you can move them
around and add more if necessary. Mine are on 2" chains from a higher,
(9') ceiling. If you get the style with the reflector, they can be
bent out some to allow a better distribution of the light in the
shop, too. Put them on a carpeted area and apply a forearm or
crepe-soled shoe and they uncurl pretty easily.
>Strobe effect?
If you notice a strobe effect (highly doubtful and extremely RPM
dependent) just add an incan task lamp there.
>I'm going to try shopping for lighting in some places besides BORGS.
Bueno idea, señor Bill.
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
"Bill" wrote:
> Hmmm..my ceiling are 9' too. I hadn't considered using chains. I
> assume you mean chains that are 2 feet in length above?
>
> I thought about it in my sleep, evidently. I woke and it occurred to
> me hat the "best" way to power my fixtures may be to install two
> duplex outlets on the perimeter of my attic, and plug them in there.
> That's much like Lew suggested, except my wiring would be in the
> attic.
>
> Assume that the 5' cords on the fixtures don't quite reach
> (especially possible with a 2' chain). I assume it's preferable to
> install a longer cord on the fixture than to use an extension cords.
> I'm not sure why I believe this--except that certain pieces of
> machinery are recommended to be powered directly (no plug). Of
> course, lighting amperages being very small, this may be like
> comparing apples and oranges. Are the fixtures generally designed
> so that one can replace the cord (easily) with a screwdriver (or
> would you use extension cords)?
--------------------------------------
Yee gads, given half a chance you would fuck up a wet dream.
Take your choice, bust your ass and run romex in the attic using
single gang recessed wall boxes in the ceiling /w/ duplex receptacle
and cover plate on 60" centers, or stay out of the attic along with
any insulation it contains and surface mount receptacle boxes
interconnected with conduit.
Either way, the 5 ft cord and plug is considered a molded pigtail that
is used as is.
Mount the fixtures as high as possible in order to have the most
uniform lighting at 36" above the floor.
Chains and screw hooks will get the job done, if that is what you
like.
Good grief man, it ain't rocket science.
Lew
On 10/28/2010 9:11 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
The nice thing about fluor fixtures is that you can move them
> around and add more if necessary. Mine are on 2" chains from a higher,
> (9') ceiling. If you get the style with the reflector, they can be
> bent out some to allow a better distribution of the light in the
> shop, too. Put them on a carpeted area and apply a forearm or
> crepe-soled shoe and they uncurl pretty easily.
Hmmm..my ceiling are 9' too. I hadn't considered using chains. I assume
you mean chains that are 2 feet in length above?
I thought about it in my sleep, evidently. I woke and it occurred to me
hat the "best" way to power my fixtures may be to install two duplex
outlets on the perimeter of my attic, and plug them in there. That's
much like Lew suggested, except my wiring would be in the attic.
Assume that the 5' cords on the fixtures don't quite reach (especially
possible with a 2' chain). I assume it's preferable to install a longer
cord on the fixture than to use an extension cords. I'm not sure why I
believe this--except that certain pieces of machinery are recommended to
be powered directly (no plug). Of course, lighting amperages being very
small, this may be like comparing apples and oranges. Are the fixtures
generally designed so that one can replace the cord (easily) with a
screwdriver (or would you use extension cords)?
Thanks,
Bill
On 10/28/10 12:29 PM, Bill wrote:
> On 10/28/2010 9:11 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> The nice thing about fluor fixtures is that you can move them
>> around and add more if necessary. Mine are on 2" chains from a higher,
>> (9') ceiling. If you get the style with the reflector, they can be
>> bent out some to allow a better distribution of the light in the
>> shop, too. Put them on a carpeted area and apply a forearm or
>> crepe-soled shoe and they uncurl pretty easily.
>
> Hmmm..my ceiling are 9' too. I hadn't considered using chains. I assume
> you mean chains that are 2 feet in length above?
>
> I thought about it in my sleep, evidently. I woke and it occurred to me
> hat the "best" way to power my fixtures may be to install two duplex
> outlets on the perimeter of my attic, and plug them in there. That's
> much like Lew suggested, except my wiring would be in the attic.
>
> Assume that the 5' cords on the fixtures don't quite reach (especially
> possible with a 2' chain). I assume it's preferable to install a longer
> cord on the fixture than to use an extension cords. I'm not sure why I
> believe this--except that certain pieces of machinery are recommended to
> be powered directly (no plug). Of course, lighting amperages being very
> small, this may be like comparing apples and oranges. Are the fixtures
> generally designed so that one can replace the cord (easily) with a
> screwdriver (or would you use extension cords)?
>
Depends upon the fixture you buy, some have cords, some are designed for
direct wiring. I'd go with the chains and direct wire them, use BX
armoured cable and tie wrap it to the chain.
--
Froz...
The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article<[email protected]>, [email protected]
> > says...
> >>
> >> On 10/26/2010 12:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
> >>>>>> follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
> >>>>>> not yet.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.
> >>>>
> >>>> Larry,
> >>>>
> >>>> Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
> >>>> and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
> >>>> brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
> >>>> environment?
> >>>
> >>> Check them out at a lighting store.
> >>
> >> :: Lots of useful stuff and a chicken wing snipped :::
> >>
> >>
> >> I was looking at the "wrap around" style lights at Home Depot.
> >> They were 32W units. Then when I looked at the bulbs I thought I wanted
> >> to use, they were 40W. It could be that the 40W were T-12, I don't
> >> recall. They didn't have any 40W "wrap around" style light fixtures on
> >> hand. Could you help me resolve my confusion about this?
> >
> > By "wrap around" do you mean "circline" (google that and you'll find
> > some pictures)?
> >
>
> This is what I was looking at (Lithonia Lighting Square White Basket
> 2-Bulb 32 Watt T8 Wraparound Lens Ceiling Fixture)
>
> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100427375&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&PID=3523498&ci_sku=100427375&ci_src=10043468&cm_mmc=CJ-_-3523498-_-10368321&AID=10368321&cj=true&locStoreNum=2019&marketID=276
Oh, that just takes a standard 4 foot T8 tube. My local HD has them in
a variety of colors--if you don't see them on the shelf then scream
bloody Hell at the manager.
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:36:10 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/26/2010 12:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
>>>>> follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
>>>>> not yet.
>>>>
>>>> You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.
>>>
>>> Larry,
>>>
>>> Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
>>> and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
>>> brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
>>> environment?
>>
>> Check them out at a lighting store.
>
> :: Lots of useful stuff and a chicken wing snipped :::
>
>
>I was looking at the "wrap around" style lights at Home Depot.
>They were 32W units. Then when I looked at the bulbs I thought I wanted
>to use, they were 40W. It could be that the 40W were T-12, I don't
>recall. They didn't have any 40W "wrap around" style light fixtures on
>hand. Could you help me resolve my confusion about this?
Home Depot? Whatever you do, do NOT buy anything from a brand called
Lights of America. It's worse than trash in every experience I've had
with them for myself, my family, and my friends. Trash 12/Quality 0 so
far.
What do you mean by "wrap around"? Frosted covers? I'd suggest bare
lamps since the frosted covers take away too much of the light.
On second thought, you might like the style with the grates on the
front if you're considering hitting them all the time with your
project pieces. ;)
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
On 10/25/2010 8:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:20:12 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
>> two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
>> to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
>> 2nd bench.
>>
>> If anyone is curious, here's a link.
>>
>> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>
> Cool.
>
>
>> I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why I
>> modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
>> electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
>> until after I finish painting in the spring.
>
> Long bench looks too close to shorter bench. Drag it left and put an
> end vise on 'er, wot?
I was trying to comply with NEC:
Article 110.26(A)(2) - Specifies that the width of the working
space in front of the electrical equipment (my sub-panel) shall be the
width of the equipment or 30 in. (762 mm), whichever is
greater.
Not only that, but I believe the "workspace" needs to extends 36"
outward too.
Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.
Bill
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 00:54:33 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Bill wrote:
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>> Better choice for a shopLithonia Lighting 2-Light Flush-Mount Industrial
>> Fluorescent Light
>>
>> http://milo.com/lithonia-lighting-4-ft-2-lamps-32-watt-white-industrial-fluorescent-work-light
>>
>>
>> The description says: "This light is ideal for areas requiring
>> low-to-medium light levels including utility rooms and storage areas."
>>
>> Does the description indicate it's suitable for "low-to-medium light
>> levels", rather than "high" light levels because it lacks a lens/cover
>> to diffuse the light?
It was probably the 4' length which prompted that statement. While
covers do diffuse light, they also absorb and diminish it. Forget the
Borgs and shop at a lighting/electrical distributor such as Platt.
Prices might be ten bucks higher, but you'll get much higher quality.
>It seems strange to me that the description indicates that the color
>temperature is 3500K when it doesn't even come with bulbs.
>
>The description indicates that it has a "magnetic ballast". Is that
>something that should concern me (I thought I was advised to seach for
>an electronic ballast). Do you think this one is okay for cool
>temperatures?
If it doesn't indicate a temperature range, it's likely NOT good for
freezing temps. The magnetic ballast raised my fur, too.
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
On 10/25/2010 11:08 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
> How much actual space between table saw and the bench ???
>
> Remember, long pieces require the same space coming and going.
>
> If those panels on the floor are 4' in width, you have just over 8' to
> start any sort of rip operation. Outfeed area always surprises people
> in their design. Imagine ripping an entire sheet of plywood and how
> much space that takes.
Yes, my thought there is that I will be able to push the saw forward
towards the garage door as much as I need to. Although I will make a
few cabinets, I'm not building a cabinet shop and I anticipate that the
number of full sheets that I need to rip will be quite modest. In fact,
I may find it easier to halve sheets with my circular saw. I'm looking
forward to (learning to do) the M-T work on these benches, work with my
router, etc. I don't think I have enough space to build very many big
items! :) Maybe somebody will ask me to build something for them
someday? I have made a few things, but I have never made a drawer
before. Building the benches ought to keep me off the streets for a
while... I may start with a small one for my bench grinder.
Bill
>
> On 10/25/2010 1:20 AM, Bill wrote:
>> I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
>> two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
>> to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
>> 2nd bench.
>>
>> If anyone is curious, here's a link.
>>
>> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
>> follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
>> not yet.
>
> You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.
Larry,
Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
environment?
I'm assuming that T-8 is the best choice, but have not decided whether
to go with the 4-bulb or 2-bulb (4 foot) fixtures. What factors do you
think should affect my choice concerning this, besides price (obviously!).
I need to read up on this (my bad).
Bill
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:24:37 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> 1 luminaire for every 35 sq ft will give you 71 FC maintained with a
>> 20% dirt depreciation allowance.
>>
>> You just got a free lighting design, enjoy it.
>>
>> Lew
>
>When you first wrote that I thought 1 luminaire was a 4' bulb.
>Now I think you mean(t) 1 luminaire is a fixture with two 4' (32w)
>bulbs. Starting to feel like I'm making more out of this than there is,
>but I don't want to be disappointed when I flip that switch.
If you go with Lew's recommendation, I hope you put alternate fixtures
on a separate switch. That way you can have nice lighting or GAWD
THAT'S BRIGHT! at the flip of an extra switch.
If you have 5 rows, put rows 2 and 4 on the second switch.
But task lighting (for those little 'gotta be bright' tasks) is much
cheaper and easier in both the short and long runs, and both in
initial cost and electrical cost. YMMV
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 20:56:58 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 14:03:33 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:51:01 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WAITAMINUTEHERE. If you didn't yet know how many light fixtures you
>>>>>>> wanted on the ceiling, how could you run wiring at all?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, from my new but currently unactivated sub-panel, I have installed
>>>>>> a 15 amp circuit breaker and 12-2 Romex to a new wall switch, and from
>>>>>
>>>>> Why only 15?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, because it was a lighting circuit? I've seen I can switch a
>>>> C'Breaker in less time than it takes to get the cover off the panel, so
>>>> this is not a big deal.
>>>
>>> As long as you have the wiring for it, which 12ga is.
>>
>> This summer, I bought 250' of 12-2 and 250' of 10-2. I was not in short
>> supply of either. However what I ended up using was much more than I
>> guessed I needed, so this ended up being a good purchase. I'd advise
>> anyone sizing up his or her requirements to do the same.
>
> Yeah, I got a 250' box of 12-2 for ten bucks (on sale from $20) when I
> moved up here. Most of it's gone after running attic lights (miniscule
> attic area) and 240v for my shop tools.
>
While I was reading reviews a few minutes ago, I read where someone
installed lights above where their garage door sits atop (that one might
do this had not occurred to me). That just goes to show that you don't
have to do everything on the first pass. Lots of good ideas are offered
around here. BTW, you got a VGD on your romex. Evidently, yours even
came with box! ; )
Bill
On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 20:56:58 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 14:03:33 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:51:01 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> WAITAMINUTEHERE. If you didn't yet know how many light fixtures you
>>>>>> wanted on the ceiling, how could you run wiring at all?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, from my new but currently unactivated sub-panel, I have installed
>>>>> a 15 amp circuit breaker and 12-2 Romex to a new wall switch, and from
>>>>
>>>> Why only 15?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, because it was a lighting circuit? I've seen I can switch a
>>> C'Breaker in less time than it takes to get the cover off the panel, so
>>> this is not a big deal.
>>
>> As long as you have the wiring for it, which 12ga is.
>
>This summer, I bought 250' of 12-2 and 250' of 10-2. I was not in short
>supply of either. However what I ended up using was much more than I
>guessed I needed, so this ended up being a good purchase. I'd advise
>anyone sizing up his or her requirements to do the same.
Yeah, I got a 250' box of 12-2 for ten bucks (on sale from $20) when I
moved up here. Most of it's gone after running attic lights (miniscule
attic area) and 240v for my shop tools.
--
Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises.
-- Demosthenes
On 10/29/2010 9:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:24:37 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>>> 1 luminaire for every 35 sq ft will give you 71 FC maintained with a
>>> 20% dirt depreciation allowance.
>>>
>>> You just got a free lighting design, enjoy it.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>
>> When you first wrote that I thought 1 luminaire was a 4' bulb.
>> Now I think you mean(t) 1 luminaire is a fixture with two 4' (32w)
>> bulbs. Starting to feel like I'm making more out of this than there is,
>> but I don't want to be disappointed when I flip that switch.
>
> If you go with Lew's recommendation, I hope you put alternate fixtures
> on a separate switch. That way you can have nice lighting or GAWD
> THAT'S BRIGHT! at the flip of an extra switch.
>
> If you have 5 rows, put rows 2 and 4 on the second switch.
I already (this summer) installed a single wall switch for all of the
fixtures and run wire to and around the attic. It would be nice if
each fixture had a pull-chain switch so I could be energy efficient in
my general use of lighting. I learned alot about fluorescent bulbs, and
how important reflection is this week (both in the walls and ceiling,
and in the fixtures).
Thanks,
Bill
On 10/25/10 3:07 PM, Bill wrote:
> On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>> Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
>>> follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
>>> not yet.
>>
>> You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.
>
> Larry,
>
> Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
> and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
> brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
> environment?
>
I switched my entire shop over to "Daylight" fluorescent tubes and it
made a world of difference in getting better color results. Not only
that, but I think it makes one more productive and helps one's overall
mental health.
Regular fluorescent tubes are so green and nasty in color and IMO, are a
real strain on your eyes. The Daylight tubes cast such a wonderful
tone... they just brighten everything up, literally and figuratively.
Think about it... everyone likes to be outside and it's not just because
of the nice breeze.
FWIW, the Daylight lamps are up around 6000k and are a little more light
natural morning or overcast light, which I prefer. 5000k is more like
direct sunlight at high noon. If you're concerned with color matching
stains and such, go with one or the other and don't mix-n-match, so you
don't get different colors depending on where you are in your shop. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
-MIKE- wrote:
> Regular fluorescent tubes are so green and nasty in color and IMO, are a
> real strain on your eyes. The Daylight tubes cast such a wonderful
> tone... they just brighten everything up, literally and figuratively.
> Think about it... everyone likes to be outside and it's not just because
> of the nice breeze.
Count me in. I like nice daylight too.
>
> FWIW, the Daylight lamps are up around 6000k and are a little more light
> natural morning or overcast light, which I prefer. 5000k is more like
> direct sunlight at high noon.
Hmmm... so 5000k is brighter than 6000k. That's counter-intuitive, I
need to do my homework (on it). Thank you!
Bill
On 10/25/10 6:11 PM, Bill wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> Regular fluorescent tubes are so green and nasty in color and IMO, are a
>> real strain on your eyes. The Daylight tubes cast such a wonderful
>> tone... they just brighten everything up, literally and figuratively.
>> Think about it... everyone likes to be outside and it's not just because
>> of the nice breeze.
>
> Count me in. I like nice daylight too.
>>
>> FWIW, the Daylight lamps are up around 6000k and are a little more light
>> natural morning or overcast light, which I prefer. 5000k is more like
>> direct sunlight at high noon.
>
> Hmmm... so 5000k is brighter than 6000k. That's counter-intuitive, I
> need to do my homework (on it). Thank you!
>
> Bill
>
No, no... it's not brighter, it's bluer.
That scale is not a measurement of brightness, it's a measurement of
color.
The higher the number, the more blue, the lower the number, the more red.
google: color temperature
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Someone asked what the benches would look like end-to-end.
Well, I was curious, and here ya go.
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
I explained to my wife it was "his & hers", but she didn't buy it.
BTW, this is sort of a subtle advertisement for Google's currently free
SketchUp program. Admittedly, I have about $100 into SU-related books.
The title, "Automatic SketchUp" arrived in the mail today. I was able
to read the first 3 chapters online for free. But, if you are not a
programmer, then you probably don't want that book.
BTW2, I should mention that I sweated very little and incurred no
splinters or strained extremities in quickly moving the benches around
by myself. I didn't even have to get up from my seat in my den. : )
Bill
Steve wrote:
> On 2010-10-25 01:20:12 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> said:
>
>> I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
>> two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one
>> ready to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this
>> was a 2nd bench.
>
> You really don't need a second bench just for a machinist's vice. Just
> take a board the same depth as the jaws on your wood vice, screw & glue
> a second board perpendicular to the first, and mount your metalworking
> vice to the second (i.e., horizontal) board. Don't need to use the metal
> vice? Unclamp it and stow it away.
I don't think you grasp the degree of abuse that my metalworking vise is
likely to incur. -MIKE- relies on the tranquility of sunshine, I rely on
the tranquility of sunshine and a hammer! : ) Screw and glue a second
board perpendicular to the first, ha! ; )
Bill
On 10/25/10 7:51 PM, Bill wrote:
> I don't think you grasp the degree of abuse that my metalworking vise is
> likely to incur. -MIKE- relies on the tranquility of sunshine, I rely on
> the tranquility of sunshine and a hammer! : ) Screw and glue a second
> board perpendicular to the first, ha! ; )
>
> Bill
>
haha.
I, too, know what a good sledge hammer or splitting wedge can do for the
soul.
I'm one of those guys who actually loves spitting logs into firewood.
Good for my soul, not so good for my back.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 10/26/2010 12:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>>> Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
>>>> follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
>>>> not yet.
>>>
>>> You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.
>>
>> Larry,
>>
>> Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
>> and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
>> brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
>> environment?
>
> Check them out at a lighting store.
:: Lots of useful stuff and a chicken wing snipped :::
I was looking at the "wrap around" style lights at Home Depot.
They were 32W units. Then when I looked at the bulbs I thought I wanted
to use, they were 40W. It could be that the 40W were T-12, I don't
recall. They didn't have any 40W "wrap around" style light fixtures on
hand. Could you help me resolve my confusion about this?
Bill
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:56:53 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/29/2010 9:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:24:37 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>
>>>> 1 luminaire for every 35 sq ft will give you 71 FC maintained with a
>>>> 20% dirt depreciation allowance.
>>>>
>>>> You just got a free lighting design, enjoy it.
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>
>>> When you first wrote that I thought 1 luminaire was a 4' bulb.
>>> Now I think you mean(t) 1 luminaire is a fixture with two 4' (32w)
>>> bulbs. Starting to feel like I'm making more out of this than there is,
>>> but I don't want to be disappointed when I flip that switch.
>>
>> If you go with Lew's recommendation, I hope you put alternate fixtures
>> on a separate switch. That way you can have nice lighting or GAWD
>> THAT'S BRIGHT! at the flip of an extra switch.
>>
>> If you have 5 rows, put rows 2 and 4 on the second switch.
>
>I already (this summer) installed a single wall switch for all of the
>fixtures and run wire to and around the attic.
It wouldn't be hard to add another switch and reroute the wiring,
would it? One Saturday morning would do it.
>It would be nice if
>each fixture had a pull-chain switch so I could be energy efficient in
>my general use of lighting.
How often would you like to do that? Wouldn't a switch be nicer?
One feed, two strings of lights, not a problem.
Another problem you might find is that many good manufacturers don't
put pull-chains in their fixtures.
>I learned alot about fluorescent bulbs, and
>how important reflection is this week (both in the walls and ceiling,
>and in the fixtures).
That's why I went with pure white paint, and did the ceiling and floor
white, too. It makes a significant difference.
Now, the floor is covered with both sawdust and too much STUFF to even
be seen. <sigh>
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 21:44:42 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 20:56:58 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Yeah, I got a 250' box of 12-2 for ten bucks (on sale from $20) when I
>> moved up here. Most of it's gone after running attic lights (miniscule
>> attic area) and 240v for my shop tools.
>
>While I was reading reviews a few minutes ago, I read where someone
>installed lights above where their garage door sits atop (that one might
>do this had not occurred to me). That just goes to show that you don't
>have to do everything on the first pass. Lots of good ideas are offered
>around here. BTW, you got a VGD on your romex.
Yeah, I got it on sale and before the extraordinary rise in copper
wire prices. I think they're $60 now.
>Evidently, yours even came with box! ; )
Yeah, a box with a hole in the center where you could snake out curly
wire. If you didn't rotate it while pulling, you ended up with a kink
every 6' or so. DAMHIKT
--
Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises.
-- Demosthenes
On 10/29/2010 11:34 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:56:53 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/29/2010 9:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:24:37 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 1 luminaire for every 35 sq ft will give you 71 FC maintained with a
>>>>> 20% dirt depreciation allowance.
>>>>>
>>>>> You just got a free lighting design, enjoy it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>>> When you first wrote that I thought 1 luminaire was a 4' bulb.
>>>> Now I think you mean(t) 1 luminaire is a fixture with two 4' (32w)
>>>> bulbs. Starting to feel like I'm making more out of this than there is,
>>>> but I don't want to be disappointed when I flip that switch.
>>>
>>> If you go with Lew's recommendation, I hope you put alternate fixtures
>>> on a separate switch. That way you can have nice lighting or GAWD
>>> THAT'S BRIGHT! at the flip of an extra switch.
>>>
>>> If you have 5 rows, put rows 2 and 4 on the second switch.
>>
>> I already (this summer) installed a single wall switch for all of the
>> fixtures and run wire to and around the attic.
>
> It wouldn't be hard to add another switch and reroute the wiring,
> would it? One Saturday morning would do it.
HA, HA, HA!!! You tear me up!
>
>
>> It would be nice if
>> each fixture had a pull-chain switch so I could be energy efficient in
>> my general use of lighting.
>
> How often would you like to do that? Wouldn't a switch be nicer?
> One feed, two strings of lights, not a problem.
Yeah, not a problem for you! :) Actually, I have 2 other fluorescent
fixtures powered by my main-panel, rather than my sub-panel, which I
regard as my back-up system. I would do what you suggested except it
would confuse my wife... I'm not sure I could even field the question:
why are there two more light switches on the wall? :)
>
> Another problem you might find is that many good manufacturers don't
> put pull-chains in their fixtures.
That's good info to know. No switches, in general, huh?
Happy Friday,
Bill
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 05:52:46 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Larry Jaques" wrote:
>
>> Does anyone here (without opaque cataracts) need that light density?
>> That's a 4' grid, Lew, roughly one fixture in the middle of every
>> 4x8
>> panel. I'm happy with 5 4' fixtures in a 20x24' space.
>---------------------------------------
>If you choose to work in a poorly lighted cave, that's your business;
>however,
>it has long been established the good lighting improves safety and
>productivity.
If you think 320W of fluor against 4 pure white walls and pure white
ceiling and floor is a "poorly lighted cave", you need to see your
opthalmologist, boy.
>IES design guide for a machine shop is 100FC maintained, thus 71FC
>maintained would be considered as rather modest.
>
>BTW, if you ever decide to upgrade, 3 rows/4 luminaries/row, would do
>a good job.
Like I said, I hate the extra glare off my glasses. Could I borrow
some of your blinders, sir?
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
On 10/26/10 6:01 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> Home Depot? Whatever you do, do NOT buy anything from a brand called
> Lights of America. It's worse than trash in every experience I've had
> with them for myself, my family, and my friends. Trash 12/Quality 0 so
> far.
>
I'll second that.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Puckdropper wrote:
> I used some threaded inserts to make my vise removable. It doesn't get
> moved much, but since it's at the end of my CMS stand I sometimes need
> to take it out. If you wanted to do something similar, and make the
> bench on the side mobile, you could possibly use it as an infeed or
> outfeed table for the saw.
>
> Puckdropper
Thank you for your comment. The idea of using benches as an outfeed
table crossed my mind too. The TS I am considering is 40" and
independent of that I decided that 40" was an ideal height for my bench
(based on a mock-up setup of cardboard boxes with a plane in my hands).
So with a mobile base on the TS, that will leave me just a few inches
to compensate for, and in the right direction too! I got lucky on that
one, but I'm not sure it will be so easy to move the benches around.
Bill
-MIKE- wrote:
> On 10/26/10 6:01 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> Home Depot? Whatever you do, do NOT buy anything from a brand called
>> Lights of America. It's worse than trash in every experience I've had
>> with them for myself, my family, and my friends. Trash 12/Quality 0 so
>> far.
>>
>
> I'll second that.
I think that's about the only brand of fluorescent lighting they sell at
Mennards. That's why I visited Home Depot! : )
Here's the point of view I've acquired about my BORGS:
Mennards--priced best.
Home Depot -- 10% higher
Lowes --20% higher.
The Home Depot people seem to try the hardest. But the Home Depot
drywall knives were crappy even at $10.49 ("insta-rust"). I like the
ones I got from Lowes. One thing I like about my location is I can visit
all 3 stores in about an hour. One thing I don't like about it is that I
don't have weather like Lew has.
Bill
J. Clarke wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>>
>> On 10/26/2010 12:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
>>>>>> follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
>>>>>> not yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.
>>>>
>>>> Larry,
>>>>
>>>> Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
>>>> and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
>>>> brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
>>>> environment?
>>>
>>> Check them out at a lighting store.
>>
>> :: Lots of useful stuff and a chicken wing snipped :::
>>
>>
>> I was looking at the "wrap around" style lights at Home Depot.
>> They were 32W units. Then when I looked at the bulbs I thought I wanted
>> to use, they were 40W. It could be that the 40W were T-12, I don't
>> recall. They didn't have any 40W "wrap around" style light fixtures on
>> hand. Could you help me resolve my confusion about this?
>
> By "wrap around" do you mean "circline" (google that and you'll find
> some pictures)?
>
This is what I was looking at (Lithonia Lighting Square White Basket
2-Bulb 32 Watt T8 Wraparound Lens Ceiling Fixture)
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100427375&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&PID=3523498&ci_sku=100427375&ci_src=10043468&cm_mmc=CJ-_-3523498-_-10368321&AID=10368321&cj=true&locStoreNum=2019&marketID=276
On 10/29/2010 1:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> Yeah, not a problem for you! :)
>
> Two runs of Romex are too much for you, Bill?<sigh>
I enjoy almost everything about running Romex. I almost live for it.
It's the thoughts of ripping up and replacing my new drywall that makes
my eyes wet--all the more so because it's too cool outside to do the
drywall mudding... I assume you are just teasing about that.
Bill
On 10/29/2010 1:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> It would be nice if
>>>> each fixture had a pull-chain switch so I could be energy efficient in
>>>> my general use of lighting.
>>>
>>> How often would you like to do that? Wouldn't a switch be nicer?
>>> One feed, two strings of lights, not a problem.
>>
>> Yeah, not a problem for you! :)
>
> Two runs of Romex are too much for you, Bill?<sigh>
Surely with 4 fixtures you would want 4 switches, no? Or possibly
1/2*2^4=8 switches if you just wanted to flip one switch to turn some of
the lights on and off. Too much?
Bill
On 10/29/2010 2:28 PM, Bill wrote:
> On 10/29/2010 1:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>>>> It would be nice if
>>>>> each fixture had a pull-chain switch so I could be energy efficient in
>>>>> my general use of lighting.
>>>>
>>>> How often would you like to do that? Wouldn't a switch be nicer?
>>>> One feed, two strings of lights, not a problem.
>>>
>>> Yeah, not a problem for you! :)
>>
>> Two runs of Romex are too much for you, Bill?<sigh>
>
>
> Surely with 4 fixtures you would want 4 switches, no? Or possibly
> 1/2*2^4=8 switches if you just wanted to flip one switch to turn some of
> the lights on and off. Too much?
>
> Bill
My bad, 16 switches!
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:22:46 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/29/2010 11:34 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:56:53 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/29/2010 9:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:24:37 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1 luminaire for every 35 sq ft will give you 71 FC maintained with a
>>>>>> 20% dirt depreciation allowance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You just got a free lighting design, enjoy it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>
>>>>> When you first wrote that I thought 1 luminaire was a 4' bulb.
>>>>> Now I think you mean(t) 1 luminaire is a fixture with two 4' (32w)
>>>>> bulbs. Starting to feel like I'm making more out of this than there is,
>>>>> but I don't want to be disappointed when I flip that switch.
>>>>
>>>> If you go with Lew's recommendation, I hope you put alternate fixtures
>>>> on a separate switch. That way you can have nice lighting or GAWD
>>>> THAT'S BRIGHT! at the flip of an extra switch.
>>>>
>>>> If you have 5 rows, put rows 2 and 4 on the second switch.
>>>
>>> I already (this summer) installed a single wall switch for all of the
>>> fixtures and run wire to and around the attic.
>>
>> It wouldn't be hard to add another switch and reroute the wiring,
>> would it? One Saturday morning would do it.
>
>HA, HA, HA!!! You tear me up!
Hmm, and here I was being serious for once. <shrug> ;)
>>> It would be nice if
>>> each fixture had a pull-chain switch so I could be energy efficient in
>>> my general use of lighting.
>>
>> How often would you like to do that? Wouldn't a switch be nicer?
>> One feed, two strings of lights, not a problem.
>
>Yeah, not a problem for you! :)
Two runs of Romex are too much for you, Bill? <sigh>
>Actually, I have 2 other fluorescent
>fixtures powered by my main-panel, rather than my sub-panel, which I
>regard as my back-up system. I would do what you suggested except it
>would confuse my wife... I'm not sure I could even field the question:
>why are there two more light switches on the wall? :)
A simple "Try each one and see what it does." is too much to ask, eh?
Then the "I switch one on for normal use and both for 'OMIGOD, I'm
gonna go blind!' lighting. Here are your sunglasses." Do that only
after you've built the sunglass case on the wall into the shop.
>> Another problem you might find is that many good manufacturers don't
>> put pull-chains in their fixtures.
>
>That's good info to know. No switches, in general, huh?
Right. Just as the cheaper shop lights usually come with plugged
cords.
>Happy Friday,
Enjoy your feckless and fun-filled Friday, sir.
--
Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come
alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs
is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Bill" wrote:
>
>> This is what I was looking at (Lithonia Lighting Square White Basket
>> 2-Bulb 32 Watt T8 Wraparound Lens Ceiling Fixture)
>>
>> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100427375&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&PID=3523498&ci_sku=100427375&ci_src=10043468&cm_mmc=CJ-_-3523498-_-10368321&AID=10368321&cj=true&locStoreNum=2019&marketID=276
>
> --------------------------------
> Great dust collector when used in a shop.
>
> Lew
>
>
Hmmm..I just got back from HD to take another look and they omitted the
mention of that feature. ; ) Lowes was closed..lol
At first I thought I wanted "sunny bright" (5000K) bulbs but, after
thinking it over, 6000K would probably create a more comfortable
environment. I did locate both of them in the 32W T-8 variety (it was
indeed the T-12's that were 40W).
Bill
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:00:06 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/28/2010 2:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> I had a duplex pointing down from the ceiling, and there was a quad
>> box on top (filled with insulation, unfinished attic) to which I added
>> outlets. I knocked holes in the sheetrock and pulled the plugs for the
>> lights through, then sealed the holes. If I had it to do over, I'd
>> have added that quad beneath, facing the shop, and let the fixture
>> wiring show. Replacement would have been much easier in the future.
>
>It's nice to get the benefit of the voice of experience.
>
>The only thing that makes me hesitate is my finished ceiling. If I
>install duplex outlets in the ceiling, they will necessarily be "cut in
>box" variety that attach to the drywall, and I can see myself replacing
>the ceiling within the next 10 years. I'll have to wait for the dust to
>settle and see what I think.
HEY, DIDN'T YOU JUST LEARN TO DO DRYWALL? Ya wuss. <g>
>A few minutes ago, I was thinking,
>excitedly, gosh I'm going to have Lights AND Electric. : ) Reminds me
>of the kind of thinking that must have taken place in the early part of
>the 20th century.
Yer a newfangled thinker, Biyull.
>Maybe I'll even have Plumbing someday! ; )
Right you are, Bill. A 10' section of 2" ABS will drain 90% of your
problems away into the yard at a very low cost!
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:18:08 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/29/2010 1:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>> Yeah, not a problem for you! :)
>>
>> Two runs of Romex are too much for you, Bill?<sigh>
>
>
>I enjoy almost everything about running Romex. I almost live for it.
>It's the thoughts of ripping up and replacing my new drywall that makes
>my eyes wet--all the more so because it's too cool outside to do the
>drywall mudding... I assume you are just teasing about that.
In that case, I'd run conduit between the lights and hook 'em up
through one small hole in your new drywall at the switched end, to get
the new pair from the switches up to the ceiling.
WAITAMINUTEHERE. If you didn't yet know how many light fixtures you
wanted on the ceiling, how could you run wiring at all?
--
Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come
alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs
is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:28:38 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/29/2010 1:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>>>> It would be nice if
>>>>> each fixture had a pull-chain switch so I could be energy efficient in
>>>>> my general use of lighting.
>>>>
>>>> How often would you like to do that? Wouldn't a switch be nicer?
>>>> One feed, two strings of lights, not a problem.
>>>
>>> Yeah, not a problem for you! :)
>>
>> Two runs of Romex are too much for you, Bill?<sigh>
>
>
>Surely with 4 fixtures you would want 4 switches, no? Or possibly
>1/2*2^4=8 switches if you just wanted to flip one switch to turn some of
>the lights on and off. Too much?
Kin ewe say "anal", Bill? Yes, too much.
It works well to run banks of lights if you need a gazillion extra
lumens on certain work 1% of the time. I guess Lew likes brightly lit
docks so he can see even if he's down in the bilge, eh?
Most office buildings have switched diminished lighting which is good
enough for the cleaning crew to work with, or to continue heating the
building at night. This was true almost every place I worked before I
started my own business.
--
Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come
alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs
is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:00:06 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/28/2010 2:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> I had a duplex pointing down from the ceiling, and there was a quad
>>> box on top (filled with insulation, unfinished attic) to which I added
>>> outlets. I knocked holes in the sheetrock and pulled the plugs for the
>>> lights through, then sealed the holes. If I had it to do over, I'd
>>> have added that quad beneath, facing the shop, and let the fixture
>>> wiring show. Replacement would have been much easier in the future.
>>
>> It's nice to get the benefit of the voice of experience.
>>
>> The only thing that makes me hesitate is my finished ceiling. If I
>> install duplex outlets in the ceiling, they will necessarily be "cut in
>> box" variety that attach to the drywall, and I can see myself replacing
>> the ceiling within the next 10 years. I'll have to wait for the dust to
>> settle and see what I think.
>
> HEY, DIDN'T YOU JUST LEARN TO DO DRYWALL? Ya wuss.<g>
Just a 16 or 24 inch section, for each outlet, huh? Except for the
mudding part, at least this is something I could do during the cooler
temps (dipping to the low 30's here recently). FrozenNorth's idea of
using armored cable was interesting too. I think I need to take some
more measurements and choose my fixtures before I decide.
Thanks,
Bill
Larry Jaques wrote:
> WAITAMINUTEHERE. If you didn't yet know how many light fixtures you
> wanted on the ceiling, how could you run wiring at all?
>
Well, from my new but currently unactivated sub-panel, I have installed
a 15 amp circuit breaker and 12-2 Romex to a new wall switch, and from
there 12-2 Romex up into the attic where at least 30' of it is now
sitting in a neat coil. From there it will easily thread around the
perimeter of the attic where other romex cables currently also live.
This route also traverses my new running board but allow me to keep my
story simple.
Installing 2, or possibly 3, duplex outlets on this perimeter of the
attic would make it easy to power 4 new fixtures.
In answer to your question, I think I'm prepared to install almost as
many light fixtures as I want, as long as their cords are not further
than 5 feet from my walls.
I need to take accurate measurements of some details so I can "commit"
to a diagram, then I may be almost good to do.
I went to Lowes today, and they had lots of fixtures, but not many like
I wanted, and I couldn't tell the features they had (only one with an
"enclosure"/reflector for instance). Perhaps all of the fixtures were of
the same brand. I stood there for 15 minutes to see if someone would
offer to help me, but they didn't, and I left thinking it probably
wasn't a quality brand anyway. They did have a stack of 4' 2-bulb T-12
fixtures on sale for 9.97--of the same brand too! Putting two and two
together, it made me wonder how good any of those fixtures is.
Bill
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Better choice for a shopLithonia Lighting 2-Light Flush-Mount Industrial
Fluorescent Light
http://milo.com/lithonia-lighting-4-ft-2-lamps-32-watt-white-industrial-fluorescent-work-light
The description says: "This light is ideal for areas requiring
low-to-medium light levels including utility rooms and storage areas."
Does the description indicate it's suitable for "low-to-medium light
levels", rather than "high" light levels because it lacks a lens/cover
to diffuse the light?
Thanks,
Bill
Bill wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
> Better choice for a shopLithonia Lighting 2-Light Flush-Mount Industrial
> Fluorescent Light
>
> http://milo.com/lithonia-lighting-4-ft-2-lamps-32-watt-white-industrial-fluorescent-work-light
>
>
> The description says: "This light is ideal for areas requiring
> low-to-medium light levels including utility rooms and storage areas."
>
> Does the description indicate it's suitable for "low-to-medium light
> levels", rather than "high" light levels because it lacks a lens/cover
> to diffuse the light?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
It seems strange to me that the description indicates that the color
temperature is 3500K when it doesn't even come with bulbs.
The description indicates that it has a "magnetic ballast". Is that
something that should concern me (I thought I was advised to seach for
an electronic ballast). Do you think this one is okay for cool
temperatures?
Thanks,
Bill
Steve wrote:
> On 2010-10-26 20:09:57 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> said:
>
>> Mennards--priced best.
>> Home Depot -- 10% higher
>> Lowes --20% higher.
>
> Menard's is a more-depressing place to shop than Walmart.
What makes you say that? I might agree that it is less
color-coordinated or thematic than the other 2 stores I named.
And filthy --
> even for a hardware store-cum-lumberyard.
>
I don't remember seeing anything there that made me feel that way.
What did you see that upset you?
My criticism of the store would be that some of the salespeople know
what they are talking about and some of the rest of them fake it--and
sometimes you don't find out until you get home which sort "helped" you.
Bill
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Bill" wrote:
>
>> The description says: "This light is ideal for areas requiring
>> low-to-medium light levels including utility rooms and storage
>> areas."
>>
>> Does the description indicate it's suitable for "low-to-medium light
>> levels", rather than "high" light levels because it lacks a
>> lens/cover to diffuse the light?
> ------------------------------
> You need a luminaire with a down shade that provides about 5% uplight.
>
> Yes today you want F32T8 lamps and electronic ballasts.
>
> Use either of the following shop lights:
> HBSL-35, $24.83
> HBSL-25G, $22.68
>
> Both are equipped with a pull chain switch and a 5 ft cord and plug.
>
> Run conduit with receptacles on ceiling and you are good to go.
>
> 1 luminaire for every 35 sq ft will give you 71 FC maintained with a
> 20% dirt depreciation allowance.
>
> You just got a free lighting design, enjoy it.
>
> Lew
>
>
Thank you,
Bill
I assume I can wire those fixtures with romex instead. Running conduit
with receptacles suggests sequential/branch wiring (to my untrained
ears). Based on other things I've read, I expect parallel wiring may be
better for this application. Or, are you of the opinion that this does
not make any, or (obviously) only minimal difference?
I appreciate the difference in the fixtures you suggested. The
"down-shade" appear really helpful. I guess in exchange for that, I have
to permit them to collect a little dust...
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Bill" wrote:
>
>> I assume I can wire those fixtures with romex instead.
>
> ------------------------------
> No, you can't run romex exposed.
>
> If you don't want to bend metal conduit, then run 3/4" plastic,
> surface mounted on ceiling.
>
> Use octagon box with duplex receptacle cover, and molded off sets in
> and out of octagon boxes.
>
> No conduit bender involved, just a hacksaw and some Oatey "Purple"
> solvent and glue.
>
> Devote a 2P-20A C'Bkr to lighting with alternate luminaries fed from
> opposite phase to minimize the strobe effect of fluorescent lighting.
>
> Especially where rotating equipment is in use.
>
> Arrange as follows:
>
> Row 1: A-B-A-B-A
> Row 2: B-A-B-A-B
> Row 3: A-B-A-B-A
>
> Where:
>
> A = L1-N
> B = L2-N
>
> Very easy to do if you pull "L1", "L2", an "N" in the same pipe.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Lew
>
Gosh, I need to print this out and think about it. By the way, I was
going to thread the romex through the attic. I've already installed a
new switch on the wall, and have 12-2 running through the switch with
plenty up in the attic just for this application. You've raised enough
issues to make me pause to think. I need to get to work, but I'll be
back. Thanks. Bill
Bill wrote:
> I've already installed a
> new switch on the wall, and have 12-2 running through the switch with
> plenty up in the attic just for this application.
Planning four T8-32W 2-bulb fixtures running in parallel from 1 hot
through a switch.
Anything inherently wrong with this model? Strobe effect?
I'm going to try shopping for lighting in some places besides BORGS.
Thanks,
Bill
Steve wrote:
> On 2010-10-27 01:23:47 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> said:
>
>> And filthy --
>>> even for a hardware store-cum-lumberyard.
>>>
>>
>> I don't remember seeing anything there that made me feel that way.
>> What did you see that upset you?
>
> Perhaps you're shopping at a better class of Menard's store -- my most
> recent expereince was W 38 & I-465... When I first moved to Indy 35
> years ago*, I lived just a couple blocks from there. Guess you could say
> the area has declined somewhat.
>
> *Damn! where does the time go?
The Menards I usually go to is in Greenwood. It's only a mile or two
from there to Home Depot and Meijers, so they are probably reminded that
they have competition. I've just been in that part of town for a year
and a half; 12 years in IN.
Bill
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Bill" wrote:
>
>> This is what I was looking at (Lithonia Lighting Square White Basket
>> 2-Bulb 32 Watt T8 Wraparound Lens Ceiling Fixture)
>>
>> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100427375&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&PID=3523498&ci_sku=100427375&ci_src=10043468&cm_mmc=CJ-_-3523498-_-10368321&AID=10368321&cj=true&locStoreNum=2019&marketID=276
>
> --------------------------------
> Great dust collector when used in a shop.
>
> Lew
>
>
Was just reading the FWW Tools & Shops annual issue, and they liked the
"wraparound" design because it was easier to keep the lens clean than
the bulbs. Everyones MMV.
I've spent the last 4 hours studying fluorescent lighting, culminating
with running the ("free") Visual Basic program from Lithonia. Somehow
they seem like THE company in the lighting fixture business.
When I first added my lights in my model, I thought I was overdoing it,
now not so much! ; )
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
Do the fixtures have to be at least 36" from the front of the electrical
panel to satisfy the workspace requirements?
Thanks,
Bill
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> 1 luminaire for every 35 sq ft will give you 71 FC maintained with a
> 20% dirt depreciation allowance.
>
> You just got a free lighting design, enjoy it.
>
> Lew
When you first wrote that I thought 1 luminaire was a 4' bulb.
Now I think you mean(t) 1 luminaire is a fixture with two 4' (32w)
bulbs. Starting to feel like I'm making more out of this than there is,
but I don't want to be disappointed when I flip that switch.
%)
Bill
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:15:18 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Bill" wrote:
>>
>>> This is what I was looking at (Lithonia Lighting Square White Basket
>>> 2-Bulb 32 Watt T8 Wraparound Lens Ceiling Fixture)
>>>
>>> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100427375&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&PID=3523498&ci_sku=100427375&ci_src=10043468&cm_mmc=CJ-_-3523498-_-10368321&AID=10368321&cj=true&locStoreNum=2019&marketID=276
>>
>> --------------------------------
>> Great dust collector when used in a shop.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>Was just reading the FWW Tools & Shops annual issue, and they liked the
>"wraparound" design because it was easier to keep the lens clean than
>the bulbs. Everyones MMV.
You can dust bulbs from the floor with a duster. You have to climb
onto a ladder and hang over obstacles to get to lenses, even if they
didn't suck light from the room.
>I've spent the last 4 hours studying fluorescent lighting, culminating
>with running the ("free") Visual Basic program from Lithonia. Somehow
>they seem like THE company in the lighting fixture business.
They do a lot of business. They're in business to sell LOTS of
lighting fixtures, too, so caveat emptor.
>When I first added my lights in my model, I thought I was overdoing it,
>now not so much! ; )
>
>http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
3' spacing? Got sunglasses?
>Do the fixtures have to be at least 36" from the front of the electrical
>panel to satisfy the workspace requirements?
I think the NEC wants enough room to work in front of the panels, not
necessarily above it. But what an inspector thinks is more important.
Ask yours, since he'll be signing it off. I can't imagine why anyone
would put a fixture that close to the wall, though.
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>> Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
>>> follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
>>> not yet.
>>
>> You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.
>
>Larry,
>
>Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
>and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
>brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
>environment?
Check them out at a lighting store. You'll either love or hate the
color. It's not amber, it's more of a bluish white, but it's my
favorite. I found that the 13W 5000k 880 lumen bulbs appeared almost
as bright as the 23W 2,700k 1,600 lumen CFLs I bought. It blew me
away. I'm using a 5000k CFL in task lighting in the shop now, and it
looks great, much better than the cool white. (I wouldn't own soft or
warm white bulbs, the shit-brindle things.)
If you stain (Blech!) wood, you'll want several different light source
types to check your damage, I mean "work", with. What looks good
under your fluor lighting can look like crap under incandescents in
the home. Keep some halogen task lighting handy in the shop, too.
(2 source, I haven't shopped either yet)
http://1000bulbs.com/product/6460/F-40T12D50.html
2,200 lumens, T12, 5000k
http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/PROD/FL+Full+Spectrum/F32T8-750
2,800 lumens, T8
Tube brightness varies, even from the same mfgr. Check specs!
Also, be sure to buy low-temp (if you're in cold country) electronic
ballasts. I bought some cheap ones which ate bulbs like candy (24 in
3 years in 4 fixtures.) I switched bulbs and am getting a whole lot
longer life from them. I should have paid more money for good fixtures
and moved to T8 when I had the chance. Lesson learned. Once I run
out of this case of bulbs, I'll most probably be switching to better
(and T8) fixtures.
>I'm assuming that T-8 is the best choice, but have not decided whether
>to go with the 4-bulb or 2-bulb (4 foot) fixtures. What factors do you
>think should affect my choice concerning this, besides price (obviously!).
I prefer a couple more 2-tubes than fewer 4-tubes due to the more even
spread of the light. You still end up with fewer tubes altogether.
My 20x24' 2-car shop has 4 2-tube T12 fixtures with cool-white bulbs
right now. It was much brighter when I had fresh white paint and
didn't have the extra 8 tons of crap on the floor (and everywhere
else), but it's well-lit now, even with that. Some day, I'll have
more than a 4' wide deer path when I navigate my shop. <sigh>
>I need to read up on this (my bad).
Good man. Always research before buying! Ask, research heavily, ask
again with your findings to confirm, and only then make your decision.
While I have your attention, I should bring up 3 disparate things you
won't believe ever got together to party: Roy Underhill, a southern
fried chicken leg, and a SawStop 'lectric saur. http://fwd4.me/jsi
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
I prefer the SP-6500 bulbs. Easy to get, most hardware stores (HD included)
and cheap as the ugly ones.
The 6500K bulbs are a little purple looking for the first few days and then
it disappears as the colour warms slightly.
The fluorescent tubes don't seem to be as blue and weak (thin?) as the CFLs
rated in the same temperature.
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
No, no... it's not brighter, it's bluer.
That scale is not a measurement of brightness, it's a measurement of
color.
The higher the number, the more blue, the lower the number, the more red.
google: color temperature
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:49:45 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/25/2010 8:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:20:12 -0400, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
>>> two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
>>> to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
>>> 2nd bench.
>>>
>>> If anyone is curious, here's a link.
>>>
>>> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>>
>> Cool.
>>
>>
>>> I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why I
>>> modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
>>> electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
>>> until after I finish painting in the spring.
>>
>> Long bench looks too close to shorter bench. Drag it left and put an
>> end vise on 'er, wot?
>
>I was trying to comply with NEC:
>
>Article 110.26(A)(2) - Specifies that the width of the working
>space in front of the electrical equipment (my sub-panel) shall be the
>width of the equipment or 30 in. (762 mm), whichever is
>greater.
>
>Not only that, but I believe the "workspace" needs to extends 36"
>outward too.
OK, then turn the long bench out from the wall and have them parallel.
>Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
>follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
>not yet.
You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.
--
If you're looking for the key to the Universe,
I've got some good news and some bad news.
The bad news: There is no key to the Universe.
The good news: It was never locked.
--Swami Beyondananda
"Larry Jaques" wrote:
> Does anyone here (without opaque cataracts) need that light density?
> That's a 4' grid, Lew, roughly one fixture in the middle of every
> 4x8
> panel. I'm happy with 5 4' fixtures in a 20x24' space.
---------------------------------------
If you choose to work in a poorly lighted cave, that's your business;
however,
it has long been established the good lighting improves safety and
productivity.
IES design guide for a machine shop is 100FC maintained, thus 71FC
maintained would be considered as rather modest.
BTW, if you ever decide to upgrade, 3 rows/4 luminaries/row, would do
a good job.
Lew
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 23:29:51 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Bill" wrote:
>
>> The description says: "This light is ideal for areas requiring
>> low-to-medium light levels including utility rooms and storage
>> areas."
>>
>> Does the description indicate it's suitable for "low-to-medium light
>> levels", rather than "high" light levels because it lacks a
>> lens/cover to diffuse the light?
>------------------------------
>You need a luminaire with a down shade that provides about 5% uplight.
>
>Yes today you want F32T8 lamps and electronic ballasts.
>
>Use either of the following shop lights:
>HBSL-35, $24.83
>HBSL-25G, $22.68
>
>Both are equipped with a pull chain switch and a 5 ft cord and plug.
>
>Run conduit with receptacles on ceiling and you are good to go.
>
>1 luminaire for every 35 sq ft will give you 71 FC maintained with a
>20% dirt depreciation allowance.
Does anyone here (without opaque cataracts) need that light density?
That's a 4' grid, Lew, roughly one fixture in the middle of every 4x8
panel. I'm happy with 5 4' fixtures in a 20x24' space. You're
suggesting FIFTEEN. And daylight bulbs feel brighter than those
crappy, amber, 2700k warm white thangs from the Borgs.
At your density, Cha Freakin' CHING! both to buy and use. Saaaaay, do
you work for the electric company?
I wear glasses and am blown out by high density lighting like that.
YMMV.
>You just got a free lighting design, enjoy it.
<g>
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales