Shop Cabinet Door

On 4/28/2012 4:29 PM, G.W. Ross wrote:
> Swingman wrote:

>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>
>>
>> Scroll on down and you can see how the doors and windows are framed and
>> hinged, so that the siding lines up, using the plunge cut "cutouts"
>>
> I have actually seen people do a plunge cut with a jig saw, but I
> wouldn't want to try it on 3/4" plywood.

No kidding ... and it is almost impossible to start a jig saw "plunge
cut" without some offcut/material sacrifice.

Without some practice, doing it with a circular saw is not all the
straightforward either.

This is another one of those tasks where an actual _plunge_ saw excels
... go figure. ;)


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 4/29/2012 8:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:28:44 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/28/2012 9:52 PM, Dave wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:26:03 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>>>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>>
>>> Chicken coops? That's a little bit out of your field aren't they?
>>> Maybe they're just an agreed to project to keep on the good side of
>>> customers?
>>
>> I think he builds them for a strength building exercise. Like lifting a
>> house.
>
> I don't think Dave understands that those little things go for between
> $600 and $900 apiece. There's a decent profit in them, thanks to the
> Yuppies.

The one in the photos actually goes for $1300+.

There is a large "urban farming" movement in the Austin area, including
the raising of hens in small, urban backyards. Many of these folks are
indeed 30 something yuppies, most in the tech industry and with money to
spare, and want structures that don't detract from the neighborhood, or
look like a funky chicken coop, although that is the actual name of
their annual tour:

http://fccooptour.blogspot.com/

The participation in that tour is unbelievable ... I built a couple
portable coops for a friend two years ago and helped out with her part
of the tour as a weekend gettaway for Linda and I to Austin.

To participate you must provide a means for an accurate count, and 1631
folks, by tally machine count, came through her garden gate between 9AM
and 4PM on a Saturday in early April. The seemingly never ending of
stream of folks was hard to believe, even seeing it firsthand.

Anyway, I've pretty much bowed out of building the damn things ... I
designed and built a few mostly as a favor anyway, and you basically
have to build _cheap_ to make it worthwhile (judging from the most
popular ones made by local "craftsman" in the Austin area, I guarantee
you that most of those will not last five years outside ... and that's
not something I'm programmed to do, being practiced in building homes in
the 800K - 1M dollar range).

Not to mention that they are considered "portable", and wrestling these
thing around by yourself during the build does not get easier the older
you get. :)


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 4/29/2012 8:08 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:41:29 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
>> our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
>> picking liberal hearts.
>
> Actually, I support the ban against chicken raising, but for a
> different reason. My first reason is personal.

> No thanks. Cities are not suitable habitats for farm animals of any
> type.

Appreciate your feelings, and support your rights to have, hold and
express them, just do us all down here a favor and PLEASE don't move to
Texas! ;)

And may times never get so troubled as to cause you to rue your words ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:27:29 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>> This is another one of those tasks where an actual _plunge_ saw excels
>> ... go figure. ;)
>
>Now you're sending me off looking. Never heard of such a beast.

Little need to do much looking. It's one of the area where Festool
track saws excel. Admittedly, DeWalt track saws also have the same
capability.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 07:46:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 4/28/2012 3:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:32:03 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>>>>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>>>
>>> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>>> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
>>> imagination.
>>>
>>> Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.
>>>
>>> I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)
>>
>> Yeah, they're pretty cool, + considerably lighter than steel I-beams.
>> Do you wax them to keep finishes from sticking?
>
>??? Can't say I have ever had a problem with a finish sticking to any
>thing to the point that it was a problem... Then again my finishes go on
>thin and absolutely with out runs. I use Gel varnishes and can varnish
>one side. immediately flip it and put it down on the work surface to do
>the other side.

When, during Texas summers? Waterlox takes 15 minutes to dry to the
touch, but I wouldn't dream of tipping a freshly finished piece on a
finished side even then. Are you talking about cabinet sides which
will be screwed together?

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:19:43 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/29/2012 8:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:28:44 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/28/2012 9:52 PM, Dave wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:26:03 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>>>>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>>>
>>>> Chicken coops? That's a little bit out of your field aren't they?
>>>> Maybe they're just an agreed to project to keep on the good side of
>>>> customers?
>>>
>>> I think he builds them for a strength building exercise. Like lifting a
>>> house.
>>
>> I don't think Dave understands that those little things go for between
>> $600 and $900 apiece. There's a decent profit in them, thanks to the
>> Yuppies.
>
>The one in the photos actually goes for $1300+.

Love dem Yups.


>There is a large "urban farming" movement in the Austin area, including
>the raising of hens in small, urban backyards. Many of these folks are
>indeed 30 something yuppies, most in the tech industry and with money to
>spare, and want structures that don't detract from the neighborhood, or
>look like a funky chicken coop, although that is the actual name of
>their annual tour:
>
>http://fccooptour.blogspot.com/
>
>The participation in that tour is unbelievable ... I built a couple
>portable coops for a friend two years ago and helped out with her part
>of the tour as a weekend gettaway for Linda and I to Austin.

I love the KEEP AUSTIN WEIRD t-shirt on the bald guy. <g>


>To participate you must provide a means for an accurate count, and 1631
>folks, by tally machine count, came through her garden gate between 9AM
>and 4PM on a Saturday in early April. The seemingly never ending of
>stream of folks was hard to believe, even seeing it firsthand.

Amazing!


>Anyway, I've pretty much bowed out of building the damn things ... I
>designed and built a few mostly as a favor anyway, and you basically
>have to build _cheap_ to make it worthwhile (judging from the most
>popular ones made by local "craftsman" in the Austin area, I guarantee
>you that most of those will not last five years outside ... and that's
>not something I'm programmed to do, being practiced in building homes in
>the 800K - 1M dollar range).

I can imagine.


>Not to mention that they are considered "portable", and wrestling these
>thing around by yourself during the build does not get easier the older
>you get. :)

Tell me about it. I'm still fairly strong, but it's fadin', and I
haven't even hit 60 yet. Crikey! I'm hoping the CNC router will save
me from most of the really heavy work in the near future. It ought to
be fun to offload from the truck, if I ever make a space in my shop
for it.

I finally got some non-narcotic pain meds from the doctor to keep me
afloat, and my energy is up as a result. I'm having fun in my buddy's
machine shop, cutting, milling, grinding, and heliarcing, etc. We
should have 'er done this week, maybe spraying it Friday. Then I get
to learn BobCAD, BobART Pro, and working with Mach3. I'll feel like a
schoolboy in May.

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On 5/2/2012 7:06 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 02 May 2012 18:50:42 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:

>>> Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
>>> our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
>>> picking liberal hearts.
>> http://www.statesman.com/news/local/georgetown-makes-it-easier-for-residents-to-raise-2325410.html?cxtype=rss_ece_frontpage
>
> I have to question how long it will last. Roosters crowing at sunrise
> waking up everyone within earshot. Escaped hens roaming the streets,
> feathers blowing everywhere. Bird poop is usually toxic so there may
> be repercussions there.
>
> Nope, I think it's a bad idea, at least in an urban environment.


You missed the operative word ... "hens". Roosters are never allowed in
urban settings.

Hens "cluck" softly, they don't "crow", ND they don't roam as a rule
because they must be vigorously protected, by escape proof measures,
24/7, measures which keep the the real urban varmits, the feral cats,
coons, possums and hawks OUT, and the "hens" IN ... otherwise the
allowed eight hens won't last a single night.

Those pigeons really got to you, eh?

You've fallen into the same trap/mindset you accused Marlow of the other
night with regard to the FOG forum ... IOW, you have no real
understanding of the issues and reality of the situations.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

"Artemus" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

>
> "Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I'm thinking of adding a couple of doors to a shop cabinet. One
>> thought I had was simply to install hinges, and cut the door out of a
>> piece of 5/8 or 3/4 plywood. If I install the hinges first, then I
>> don't have to mess with holding the door in place after it's cut.
>> (I'll remove the hinges to cut it.)
>>
>> A jigsaw would probably be used to make the cuts, it'll give me a
>> smooth and square finish.
>>
>> Would this work, or do I need to cut the door out first?
>>
>> Puckdropper
>> --
>> Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
>
> Aren't you a bit late? Like 26 days?
> Art
>
>

Nothing humourous was meant... I want to cut the doors right out of the
same piece of ply used for the rest of the cabinet, and thought mounting
the hinges first and then removing them before cutting the door out would
make assembly easier.

Plus, the spacing around the door would be equal on all sides, since it's
just a saw kerf wide.

Just wanted to ask before I took all the time to set this up and cut the
pieces out. When it seems this easy, it's often a good idea to ask about
"gotchas".

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
>
> With a jig saw, it helps to sharpen the tip. You really have to pull
> forward while plunging to help stop it from pushing forward. I've done
> it and can get it pretty clean most of the time, but it's not
> something I'd want to "have to" do.
>
>

I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF multitool
then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things out. Sometimes
it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Of course, the easiest way to avoid the need for plunging is to make one
continuous cut. I could round the corners and avoid the whole plunging
issue all together. I'm reasonably certain the jigsaw will cut a penny-
sized curve without trouble.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 4/29/2012 12:53 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF
>> multitool then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things
>> out. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
>
> Kerf size is different isn't it?

Yes. (That's also the problem with plunging with a circular saw and
finishing with a jigsaw.)

However, the multitool kerf should be smaller than the jigsaw, so that
initial slot can be used as a guide for the jigsaw blade to plunge
straight. It's like drilling a 1/16" hole before drilling a much larger
hole.

>> Of course, the easiest way to avoid the need for plunging is to make
>> one continuous cut. I could round the corners and avoid the whole
>> plunging issue all together. I'm reasonably certain the jigsaw will
>> cut a penny- sized curve without trouble.
>
> So, how you planning to start the cut without marring either the
> cutout and/or the remaining "frame"?
>
> Depends upon the quality of level of cut you're willing to settle for.

I can start at the bottom and cut around. There's already a shelf
installed, the cabinet frame will be built on top of that.

Since it's shop furniture, I always attempt to get the best quality cut
but accept much less.

> Even with a good jig saw you are most likely going to have to dress up
> both sides of the cut around both the door and the remaining cabinet
> "frame", meaning your gap may get bigger than you originally intended
> ... and IME, it's hard to do that cleanup in a consistent manner with
> regard to material removed.
>
> If you're willing to settle for an inset gap of say +/- 1/4" (or
> more), a top of the line well setup jig saw with new blades, and
> enough material on hand to burn few attempts, will most likely work
> ... but you may still be dissatisfied with the overall gap consistency
> from door to door on project involving other than just a one-off door
> and frame.
>
> Obviously, and I'm not being condescending, you will want to do some
> practice runs and jig up for the job.

I can use the same aluminum guide for the jigsaw as I do the circular
saw. Cutting curves would be a bit of an issue for a jig, but I'll
probably freehand those.

There's only going to be 4 doors, so using anything more than the guide
probably wouldn't be worth it.

> AAMOF, any jig/feature you can cobble up that will keep your jig saw
> running straight, true, and perpendicular (if that's what you want) to
> the surface will increase your chances of success immeasurably and may
> well be the key(s) to the kingdom.
>
> Certainly worth a try to see what your equipment, and your jig making
> skills can accomplish ... who knows, there may never be anything other
> than a jig saw necessary to your future woodworking successes. :)
>

I trust the saw to run straight and true, I've used it in the past and
it's always done it. Any mistakes are my fault. Good tools are the
first key to woodworking success. :-)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Swingman wrote:

>
> This is another one of those tasks where an actual _plunge_ saw excels
> ... go figure. ;)

Huh... never knew such a thing existed. Went out for a google ride and
found them. I guess that's proof of what you can/will do when you don't
know any better. I've been plunging my circular saw for decades, and just
figured that's what you do. I plunge my jig saw too, but the type of blade
that's in it can make that a shake, rattle and roll experience. Certainly
want to have a decent amount of waste area to work in.

Others have said they wouldn't try it in 3/4 plywood, but my first jig saw
actually contained directions for plunge cuts, in the owner's manual. I
just never knew any better, and have been doing it for years.

Maybe now I gotta go buy one of those plunge saws... After I save up for
some Festools...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Swingman wrote:

>
> No kidding ... and it is almost impossible to start a jig saw "plunge
> cut" without some offcut/material sacrifice.
>
> Without some practice, doing it with a circular saw is not all the
> straightforward either.
>
> This is another one of those tasks where an actual _plunge_ saw excels
> ... go figure. ;)

Now you're sending me off looking. Never heard of such a beast.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 16:06:28 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/28/2012 3:47 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:28:45 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/28/2012 1:25 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>>> On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>>>>> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
>>>>> imagination.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shows to go ya - I never even noticed them when I looked at the pictures.
>>>> Kudo's to -MIKE- for pointing that out to those of us who are less
>>>> observant!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.
>>>>
>>>> Won't take any amount of convincing to make me a believer.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)
>>>>
>>>> Yeahbut - where can you download the plans?
>>>
>>> Plans?? We don't need no steeekning plans!
>>
>> That won't keep some people from asking in all seriousity, tho.
>>
>>
>>> But since you asked, and are obviously in such great need, and lost
>>> without them, here ya go:
>>>
>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5736535346313022498
>>
>> Hey, there's no dado positioning dim, Swingy. Where, oh where do they
>> go?
>
>I could answer that C_less, but ...

Grok that. ;)


>> And what does that 11 to the 9th dim (on the left) mean
>
>You got the free version ... the Pro version has full instructions, and
>is optimized for 1:1 scale printing. ;)

Heh, heh, heh...

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:41:29 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
>> our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little
>> pea picking liberal hearts.
>
> Actually, I support the ban against chicken raising, but for a
> different reason. My first reason is personal.
>
> Because of an infestation of pigeons on all balconies in my apartment
> building, I've developed a hatred for birds of all types. The damn
> birds made the balconies literally unusable. About ten years ago, the
> building management netted the balconies to fix the bird problem, but
> that didn't alleviate my hatred much.
>
> My second reason is practical. I don't know about population attitudes
> in Texas, but too many people are irresponsible here as far as I'm
> concerned. Assuming chicken raising was permitted, I'd expect loose
> chickens and other sorts of farm animals to be scavenging on the
> streets within a few years. People would flock to chicken raising with
> makeshift, ineffective cages and then dump the chickens on the street
> when they decided they were tired with it.
>
> No thanks. Cities are not suitable habitats for farm animals of any
> type.

Really Dave? You are spending time worrying about that?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

-MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/28/12 1:25 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>> On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>>>
>>> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>>> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only
>>> by imagination.
>>>
>>
>> Shows to go ya - I never even noticed them when I looked at the
>> pictures. Kudo's to -MIKE- for pointing that out to those of us who
>> are less observant!
>>
>
> I wish I could attribute it to being observant. I think I'm just too
> anal. :-)
> Seriously, I find I often get too caught up in the process instead of
> the results. Not that the results suffer, but it often makes the
> process less enjoyable. So when I look at a picture of something
> someone made, my brain tends to gravitate towards "how did he do that
> and would it make my process more efficient?" before actually
> admiring the product.

Just shows how different we each are. When I look at pictures like that,
all I see is the brunette with the bare 34B's.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:34:49 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Swingman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is another one of those tasks where an actual _plunge_ saw
>>> excels ... go figure. ;)
>>
>> Huh... never knew such a thing existed. Went out for a google ride
>> and
>
> How could you have missed all fifty threads in which we've discussed
> them over the past 2 years, Mike? Crikey!

Musta had one eye closed...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Swingman wrote:
> On 4/27/2012 10:28 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> Nothing humourous was meant... I want to cut the doors right out of the
>> same piece of ply used for the rest of the cabinet, and thought mounting
>> the hinges first and then removing them before cutting the door out would
>> make assembly easier.
>>
>> Plus, the spacing around the door would be equal on all sides, since it's
>> just a saw kerf wide.
>>
>> Just wanted to ask before I took all the time to set this up and cut the
>> pieces out. When it seems this easy, it's often a good idea to ask about
>> "gotchas".
>
> The "gotcha" with a jig saw is a "start point", for the first cut, and
> at each corner ... you normally have to drill a hole in order to start
> the cut, which ruins either door (cutoff), or the frame around the door.
>
> What you want to do is known as a "plunge cut". There are a couple of
> ways to do this with a circular saw, and a guide rail with built in
> "stops", also best done with the circular blade at full extension. You
> can then use a jig saw to cut to the corners cleanly.
>
> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>
> Scroll on down and you can see how the doors and windows are framed and
> hinged, so that the siding lines up, using the plunge cut "cutouts"
>
I have actually seen people do a plunge cut with a jig saw, but I
wouldn't want to try it on 3/4" plywood.

--
G.W. Ross

Gather 'round like cattle and ye shall
be herd.

Swingman wrote:
> On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>
> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
> imagination.
>

Shows to go ya - I never even noticed them when I looked at the pictures.
Kudo's to -MIKE- for pointing that out to those of us who are less
observant!


> Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.

Won't take any amount of convincing to make me a believer.

>
> I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)

Yeahbut - where can you download the plans?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 21:23:10 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:34:49 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is another one of those tasks where an actual _plunge_ saw
>>>> excels ... go figure. ;)
>>>
>>> Huh... never knew such a thing existed. Went out for a google ride
>>> and
>>
>> How could you have missed all fifty threads in which we've discussed
>> them over the past 2 years, Mike? Crikey!
>
>Musta had one eye closed...

And the patch still on the other one, eh, Matey?
Arrrrrrrrrrrrr!

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On 4/26/2012 11:05 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> I'm thinking of adding a couple of doors to a shop cabinet. One thought I
> had was simply to install hinges, and cut the door out of a piece of 5/8 or
> 3/4 plywood. If I install the hinges first, then I don't have to mess with
> holding the door in place after it's cut. (I'll remove the hinges to cut
> it.)
>
> A jigsaw would probably be used to make the cuts, it'll give me a smooth
> and square finish.
>
> Would this work, or do I need to cut the door out first?
>
> Puckdropper

the only problem with this method, and i've only used it on fence gates,
not cabinets, is that the hinges will not be pre loaded, and thus the
door (gate) drops a bit when you cut it out. If you can figure out a
way to offset this slack, then it'll work fine.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 4/29/2012 8:36 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 07:46:12 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/28/2012 3:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:32:03 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>>>>>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>>>>
>>>> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>>>> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
>>>> imagination.
>>>>
>>>> Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.
>>>>
>>>> I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)
>>>
>>> Yeah, they're pretty cool, + considerably lighter than steel I-beams.
>>> Do you wax them to keep finishes from sticking?
>>
>> ??? Can't say I have ever had a problem with a finish sticking to any
>> thing to the point that it was a problem... Then again my finishes go on
>> thin and absolutely with out runs. I use Gel varnishes and can varnish
>> one side. immediately flip it and put it down on the work surface to do
>> the other side.
>
> When, during Texas summers? Waterlox takes 15 minutes to dry to the
> touch, but I wouldn't dream of tipping a freshly finished piece on a
> finished side even then. Are you talking about cabinet sides which
> will be screwed together?
>


Any time of year and any piece, cabinet sides inner and outer sides,
door fronts and backs, totally covered in one application per coat.

Now mind you I don't let them stay against a particular flat surface
while curing, only during application.
After application I typically stand them up on the floor and leaning up
against an object to let there be full ventilation on all sides. I
might be working on 15~20 pieces at one time.

Puckdropper wrote:
> I'm thinking of adding a couple of doors to a shop cabinet. One thought I
> had was simply to install hinges, and cut the door out of a piece of 5/8 or
> 3/4 plywood. If I install the hinges first, then I don't have to mess with
> holding the door in place after it's cut. (I'll remove the hinges to cut
> it.)
>
> A jigsaw would probably be used to make the cuts, it'll give me a smooth
> and square finish.
>
> Would this work, or do I need to cut the door out first?
>
> Puckdropper

What a wonderful Idea! Or even better, hang the door then cut out a
hole to match it.

--
G.W. Ross

A good pun is its own reword.

On 4/28/2012 3:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:32:03 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>>>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>>>
>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>>
>> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
>> imagination.
>>
>> Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.
>>
>> I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)
>
> Yeah, they're pretty cool, + considerably lighter than steel I-beams.
> Do you wax them to keep finishes from sticking?

??? Can't say I have ever had a problem with a finish sticking to any
thing to the point that it was a problem... Then again my finishes go on
thin and absolutely with out runs. I use Gel varnishes and can varnish
one side. immediately flip it and put it down on the work surface to do
the other side.





>
> --
> You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
> -- Charles A. Budreau

On 4/28/2012 9:55 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:32:03 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
>> imagination.
>>
>> Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.
>>
>> I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)
>
> I can't wait to see how Leon incorporates his pinned Domino
> construction into them.

They are already done and I think IIRC used brad nails and glue. LOL

On 4/28/2012 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/27/2012 10:28 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> Nothing humourous was meant... I want to cut the doors right out of the
>> same piece of ply used for the rest of the cabinet, and thought mounting
>> the hinges first and then removing them before cutting the door out would
>> make assembly easier.
>>
>> Plus, the spacing around the door would be equal on all sides, since it's
>> just a saw kerf wide.
>>
>> Just wanted to ask before I took all the time to set this up and cut the
>> pieces out. When it seems this easy, it's often a good idea to ask about
>> "gotchas".
>
> The "gotcha" with a jig saw is a "start point", for the first cut, and
> at each corner ... you normally have to drill a hole in order to start
> the cut, which ruins either door (cutoff), or the frame around the door.
>
> What you want to do is known as a "plunge cut". There are a couple of
> ways to do this with a circular saw, and a guide rail with built in
> "stops", also best done with the circular blade at full extension. You
> can then use a jig saw to cut to the corners cleanly.
>
> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>
>
> Scroll on down and you can see how the doors and windows are framed and
> hinged, so that the siding lines up, using the plunge cut "cutouts"
>


Better shot of the plunge cut setup in case you can't scroll to it:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677888510363206866

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On 4/27/2012 10:28 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

> Nothing humourous was meant... I want to cut the doors right out of the
> same piece of ply used for the rest of the cabinet, and thought mounting
> the hinges first and then removing them before cutting the door out would
> make assembly easier.
>
> Plus, the spacing around the door would be equal on all sides, since it's
> just a saw kerf wide.
>
> Just wanted to ask before I took all the time to set this up and cut the
> pieces out. When it seems this easy, it's often a good idea to ask about
> "gotchas".

The "gotcha" with a jig saw is a "start point", for the first cut, and
at each corner ... you normally have to drill a hole in order to start
the cut, which ruins either door (cutoff), or the frame around the door.

What you want to do is known as a "plunge cut". There are a couple of
ways to do this with a circular saw, and a guide rail with built in
"stops", also best done with the circular blade at full extension. You
can then use a jig saw to cut to the corners cleanly.

Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
making doors and windows for chicken coops:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698

Scroll on down and you can see how the doors and windows are framed and
hinged, so that the siding lines up, using the plunge cut "cutouts"

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On 4/28/2012 9:52 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:26:03 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>
> Chicken coops? That's a little bit out of your field aren't they?
> Maybe they're just an agreed to project to keep on the good side of
> customers?

I think he builds them for a strength building exercise. Like lifting a
house.

On 4/29/2012 6:27 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:19:43 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> There is a large "urban farming" movement in the Austin area, including
>> the raising of hens in small, urban backyards. Many of these folks are
>> indeed 30 something yuppies, most in the tech industry and with money to
>> spare, and want structures that don't detract from the neighborhood, or
>> look like a funky chicken coop, although that is the actual name of
>> their annual tour:
>
> Different locale, different perspectives I guess. A couple of months
> back there was a drive by a group wanting legalize chicken raising in
> the Toronto area. It was shot down in a pile of feathers.

> http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/25/no-legal-backyard-chickens-for-toronto-anytime-soon-as-committe-defers-study/

"Let them grow tomatoes.", eh?

The pious and unmitigated arrogance manifested in the quotes from those
two committee MF's is reprehensible to the max.

The folks in Austin are largely progressives, but apparently with a lot
less tolerance to allowing busybodies to rule their lives.

Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
picking liberal hearts.

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On 4/28/2012 6:27 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>
>>
>> No kidding ... and it is almost impossible to start a jig saw "plunge
>> cut" without some offcut/material sacrifice.
>>
>> Without some practice, doing it with a circular saw is not all the
>> straightforward either.
>>
>> This is another one of those tasks where an actual _plunge_ saw excels
>> ... go figure. ;)
>
> Now you're sending me off looking. Never heard of such a beast.

Festool, Makita, DeWalt ... all make plunge cut saws:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/tool-reviews/plunge-cut_saws

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On 4/28/2012 6:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>
>>
>> This is another one of those tasks where an actual _plunge_ saw excels
>> ... go figure. ;)
>
> Huh... never knew such a thing existed. Went out for a google ride and
> found them. I guess that's proof of what you can/will do when you don't
> know any better. I've been plunging my circular saw for decades, and just
> figured that's what you do. I plunge my jig saw too, but the type of blade
> that's in it can make that a shake, rattle and roll experience. Certainly
> want to have a decent amount of waste area to work in.
>
> Others have said they wouldn't try it in 3/4 plywood, but my first jig saw
> actually contained directions for plunge cuts, in the owner's manual. I
> just never knew any better, and have been doing it for years.
>
> Maybe now I gotta go buy one of those plunge saws... After I save up for
> some Festools...

Dayum, Bubba ... where you been? What do you think we Festoolers have
been talking about for job site tools?

Here watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdjDN8GWGbk

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"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm thinking of adding a couple of doors to a shop cabinet. One thought I
> had was simply to install hinges, and cut the door out of a piece of 5/8
> or
> 3/4 plywood. If I install the hinges first, then I don't have to mess
> with
> holding the door in place after it's cut. (I'll remove the hinges to cut
> it.)
>
> A jigsaw would probably be used to make the cuts, it'll give me a smooth
> and square finish.
>
> Would this work, or do I need to cut the door out first?
>
> Puckdropper
> --
> Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Might work. Give it a try. If you don't like the results you can always
make a real door out of some more plywood.

On 4/28/2012 3:47 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:28:45 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 4/28/2012 1:25 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>> On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>>>>
>>>> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>>>> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
>>>> imagination.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Shows to go ya - I never even noticed them when I looked at the pictures.
>>> Kudo's to -MIKE- for pointing that out to those of us who are less
>>> observant!
>>>
>>>
>>>> Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.
>>>
>>> Won't take any amount of convincing to make me a believer.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)
>>>
>>> Yeahbut - where can you download the plans?
>>
>> Plans?? We don't need no steeekning plans!
>
> That won't keep some people from asking in all seriousity, tho.
>
>
>> But since you asked, and are obviously in such great need, and lost
>> without them, here ya go:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5736535346313022498
>
> Hey, there's no dado positioning dim, Swingy. Where, oh where do they
> go?

I could answer that C_less, but ...

> And what does that 11 to the 9th dim (on the left) mean

You got the free version ... the Pro version has full instructions, and
is optimized for 1:1 scale printing. ;)

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On 4/28/2012 12:33 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 4/28/2012 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:


>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>
>>
>>
>> Scroll on down and you can see how the doors and windows are framed and
>> hinged, so that the siding lines up, using the plunge cut "cutouts"
>>
>
> Wow. pretty nice for a bunch of chickens. <G>

Thanks ... gotta admit that the few folks I make them for are convinced
their hens (all with names) deserve only the best. :0>

And, I hate to be called back before twenty years from date of purchase.

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On 4/26/2012 11:05 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> I'm thinking of adding a couple of doors to a shop cabinet. One thought I
> had was simply to install hinges, and cut the door out of a piece of 5/8 or
> 3/4 plywood. If I install the hinges first, then I don't have to mess with
> holding the door in place after it's cut. (I'll remove the hinges to cut
> it.)
>
> A jigsaw would probably be used to make the cuts, it'll give me a smooth
> and square finish.
>
> Would this work, or do I need to cut the door out first?


LOL ...


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On 4/29/2012 10:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:39:23 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/29/2012 8:36 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 07:46:12 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/28/2012 3:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>> Yeah, they're pretty cool, + considerably lighter than steel I-beams.
>>>>> Do you wax them to keep finishes from sticking?
>>>>
>>>> ??? Can't say I have ever had a problem with a finish sticking to any
>>>> thing to the point that it was a problem... Then again my finishes go on
>>>> thin and absolutely with out runs. I use Gel varnishes and can varnish
>>>> one side. immediately flip it and put it down on the work surface to do
>>>> the other side.
>>>
>>> When, during Texas summers? Waterlox takes 15 minutes to dry to the
>>> touch, but I wouldn't dream of tipping a freshly finished piece on a
>>> finished side even then. Are you talking about cabinet sides which
>>> will be screwed together?
>>
>> Any time of year and any piece, cabinet sides inner and outer sides,
>> door fronts and backs, totally covered in one application per coat.
>>
>> Now mind you I don't let them stay against a particular flat surface
>> while curing, only during application.
>> After application I typically stand them up on the floor and leaning up
>> against an object to let there be full ventilation on all sides. I
>> might be working on 15~20 pieces at one time.
>
> Oh, OK. But, still, it's amazing that it doesn't stick even during a
> few minute rest on the fresh finish.
>
> --
> You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
> -- Charles A. Budreau

By the same token, dust is really not an issue either.

You should give gel stains and varnishes a try. Old Masters is a pretty
good brand, read and follow the directions on the can.

Or basically, apply how ever you want to do so and wipe off
"immediately". 10 or so minutes later wipe again with a fresh clean
cloth. Let dry 4~8 hours and repeat 2 or more times.

> I'm thinking of adding a couple of doors to a shop cabinet. One
> thought I had was simply to install hinges, and cut the door out of a
> piece of 5/8 or 3/4 plywood. If I install the hinges first, then I
> don't have to mess with holding the door in place after it's cut.

I usually just use a straight board held to the cabinet with spring clamps.
This gives me a ledge to set the door on while I position it and screw the
hinges to the case (I fasten the hinges to the door before installing the
door).

For cabinets that don't have anything to grip to, I often use spacer blocks
from the trim below or whatever.

Anthony

On 4/28/2012 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/27/2012 10:28 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> Nothing humourous was meant... I want to cut the doors right out of the
>> same piece of ply used for the rest of the cabinet, and thought mounting
>> the hinges first and then removing them before cutting the door out would
>> make assembly easier.
>>
>> Plus, the spacing around the door would be equal on all sides, since it's
>> just a saw kerf wide.
>>
>> Just wanted to ask before I took all the time to set this up and cut the
>> pieces out. When it seems this easy, it's often a good idea to ask about
>> "gotchas".
>
> The "gotcha" with a jig saw is a "start point", for the first cut, and
> at each corner ... you normally have to drill a hole in order to start
> the cut, which ruins either door (cutoff), or the frame around the door.
>
> What you want to do is known as a "plunge cut". There are a couple of
> ways to do this with a circular saw, and a guide rail with built in
> "stops", also best done with the circular blade at full extension. You
> can then use a jig saw to cut to the corners cleanly.
>
> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>
>
> Scroll on down and you can see how the doors and windows are framed and
> hinged, so that the siding lines up, using the plunge cut "cutouts"
>

Wow. pretty nice for a bunch of chickens. <G>

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

G.W. Ross wrote:

> I have actually seen people do a plunge cut with a jig saw, but I
> wouldn't want to try it on 3/4" plywood.

I've done many plunge cuts with my jig saw in 3/4" ply as well as 1 by
lumber. You just start it in a waste area.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 4/29/2012 6:06 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/29/12 4:35 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> Swingman<[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 4/29/2012 12:53 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF
>>>> multitool then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things
>>>> out. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
>>>
>>> Kerf size is different isn't it?
>>
>> Yes. (That's also the problem with plunging with a circular saw and
>> finishing with a jigsaw.)
>>
>
> Multitool fine blade on both edges of the kerf.

Not saying that this is not doable, but in the sum total of my
experience with cabinets and doors (particularly if a consistent
finished edge on both components, with a consistent inset gap is
desirable) it is a helluva lot more efficient, in materials and time, to
build face frames and fit the doors, than it is to do cutout doors in a
front panel with a jig saw in an attempt to save time and effort
applying hinges. :)

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On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:28:45 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/28/2012 1:25 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>> On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>>>
>>> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>>> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
>>> imagination.
>>>
>>
>> Shows to go ya - I never even noticed them when I looked at the pictures.
>> Kudo's to -MIKE- for pointing that out to those of us who are less
>> observant!
>>
>>
>>> Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.
>>
>> Won't take any amount of convincing to make me a believer.
>>
>>>
>>> I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)
>>
>> Yeahbut - where can you download the plans?
>
>Plans?? We don't need no steeekning plans!

That won't keep some people from asking in all seriousity, tho.


>But since you asked, and are obviously in such great need, and lost
>without them, here ya go:
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5736535346313022498

Hey, there's no dado positioning dim, Swingy. Where, oh where do they
go?

And what does that 11 to the 9th dim (on the left) mean?

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:41:29 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
>our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
>picking liberal hearts.

Actually, I support the ban against chicken raising, but for a
different reason. My first reason is personal.

Because of an infestation of pigeons on all balconies in my apartment
building, I've developed a hatred for birds of all types. The damn
birds made the balconies literally unusable. About ten years ago, the
building management netted the balconies to fix the bird problem, but
that didn't alleviate my hatred much.

My second reason is practical. I don't know about population attitudes
in Texas, but too many people are irresponsible here as far as I'm
concerned. Assuming chicken raising was permitted, I'd expect loose
chickens and other sorts of farm animals to be scavenging on the
streets within a few years. People would flock to chicken raising with
makeshift, ineffective cages and then dump the chickens on the street
when they decided they were tired with it.

No thanks. Cities are not suitable habitats for farm animals of any
type.

On 4/29/2012 12:53 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

> I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF multitool
> then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things out. Sometimes
> it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Kerf size is different isn't it?

> Of course, the easiest way to avoid the need for plunging is to make one
> continuous cut. I could round the corners and avoid the whole plunging
> issue all together. I'm reasonably certain the jigsaw will cut a penny-
> sized curve without trouble.

So, how you planning to start the cut without marring either the cutout
and/or the remaining "frame"?

Depends upon the quality of level of cut you're willing to settle for.

Even with a good jig saw you are most likely going to have to dress up
both sides of the cut around both the door and the remaining cabinet
"frame", meaning your gap may get bigger than you originally intended
... and IME, it's hard to do that cleanup in a consistent manner with
regard to material removed.

If you're willing to settle for an inset gap of say +/- 1/4" (or more),
a top of the line well setup jig saw with new blades, and enough
material on hand to burn few attempts, will most likely work ... but you
may still be dissatisfied with the overall gap consistency from door to
door on project involving other than just a one-off door and frame.

Obviously, and I'm not being condescending, you will want to do some
practice runs and jig up for the job.

AAMOF, any jig/feature you can cobble up that will keep your jig saw
running straight, true, and perpendicular (if that's what you want) to
the surface will increase your chances of success immeasurably and may
well be the key(s) to the kingdom.

Certainly worth a try to see what your equipment, and your jig making
skills can accomplish ... who knows, there may never be anything other
than a jig saw necessary to your future woodworking successes. :)

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On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:32:03 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>>
>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>
>Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
>imagination.
>
>Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.
>
>I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)

Yeah, they're pretty cool, + considerably lighter than steel I-beams.
Do you wax them to keep finishes from sticking?


--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:34:49 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Swingman wrote:
>
>>
>> This is another one of those tasks where an actual _plunge_ saw excels
>> ... go figure. ;)
>
>Huh... never knew such a thing existed. Went out for a google ride and

How could you have missed all fifty threads in which we've discussed
them over the past 2 years, Mike? Crikey!

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On 4/29/2012 7:41 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/29/2012 6:27 PM, Dave wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:19:43 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> There is a large "urban farming" movement in the Austin area, including
>>> the raising of hens in small, urban backyards. Many of these folks are
>>> indeed 30 something yuppies, most in the tech industry and with money to
>>> spare, and want structures that don't detract from the neighborhood, or
>>> look like a funky chicken coop, although that is the actual name of
>>> their annual tour:
>>
>> Different locale, different perspectives I guess. A couple of months
>> back there was a drive by a group wanting legalize chicken raising in
>> the Toronto area. It was shot down in a pile of feathers.
>
>> http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/25/no-legal-backyard-chickens-for-toronto-anytime-soon-as-committe-defers-study/


> Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
> our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
> picking liberal hearts.


http://www.statesman.com/news/local/georgetown-makes-it-easier-for-residents-to-raise-2325410.html?cxtype=rss_ece_frontpage

--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:37:57 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/29/2012 10:22 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:19:43 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>> Not to mention that they are considered "portable", and wrestling these
>>> thing around by yourself during the build does not get easier the older
>>> you get. :)
>>
>> Tell me about it. I'm still fairly strong, but it's fadin', and I
>> haven't even hit 60 yet.
>
>That slope gets steeper and slipperier.

Tell me about it. I work mostly for seniors, and I hear that every
day, even when I'm not watching my own trajectory.


>I used to carry a tons worth of
>feed, two one hundred pound sacks at a time, 1/4" mile to the barn, in
>rubber boots, in ankle deep mud, after a big rain when the feed trucks
>couldn't make it all the way in.

Joys! I used to throw transmissions and differentials around by
myself.


>Now I find myself looking for someone to help me shift a sheet of 3/4"
>ply ... I can still do it, but I might pay for it for a couple of weeks.
>
>> I finally got some non-narcotic pain meds from the doctor to keep me
>> afloat, and my energy is up as a result.
>
>If you don't mind asking, what is it? I just got scolded and taken off
>OTC ibuprofen, which had me convinced I was twenty years younger. :(

I was given some vicodin by the dentist for some ongoing work he was
doing, then he got worried that I'd be addicted and switched me to
Ultracet, a mix of Tramadol and Acetaminophen. Those cost a buck a
pill (ouch!), but worked nearly as well as the opiate with
considerably less stomach discomfort/nausea. I liked it better.

So, when my MD forced me off the 6-8 a day ibuprofens (high blood
pressure), I asked for a non-narcotic painkiller. When she suggested
Tramadol, I told her that I was familiar with it. The straight generic
50mg Tramadol is under seven cents a pill and works better than the
pricy stuff did. It also messes with your head less. Since I don't
feel my osteoarthritic pain as much, I have a higher level of energy
than I did. It's not perfect, but it's a real relief.

By eating more varied foods and watching my portions, I have lost 15
pounds in the 3 months since the doc said she'd like me to lose ten
pounds for my BP. I want to lose 20 more, getting back to about what I
weighed in high school, and I'm on track for that.


--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm thinking of adding a couple of doors to a shop cabinet. One thought I
> had was simply to install hinges, and cut the door out of a piece of 5/8 or
> 3/4 plywood. If I install the hinges first, then I don't have to mess with
> holding the door in place after it's cut. (I'll remove the hinges to cut
> it.)
>
> A jigsaw would probably be used to make the cuts, it'll give me a smooth
> and square finish.
>
> Would this work, or do I need to cut the door out first?
>
> Puckdropper
> --
> Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Aren't you a bit late? Like 26 days?
Art

On 4/27/12 10:28 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> "Artemus"<[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> "Puckdropper"<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I'm thinking of adding a couple of doors to a shop cabinet. One
>>> thought I had was simply to install hinges, and cut the door out of a
>>> piece of 5/8 or 3/4 plywood. If I install the hinges first, then I
>>> don't have to mess with holding the door in place after it's cut.
>>> (I'll remove the hinges to cut it.)
>>>
>>> A jigsaw would probably be used to make the cuts, it'll give me a
>>> smooth and square finish.
>>>
>>> Would this work, or do I need to cut the door out first?
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>>> --
>>> Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
>>
>> Aren't you a bit late? Like 26 days?
>> Art
>>
>>
>
> Nothing humourous was meant... I want to cut the doors right out of the
> same piece of ply used for the rest of the cabinet, and thought mounting
> the hinges first and then removing them before cutting the door out would
> make assembly easier.
>
> Plus, the spacing around the door would be equal on all sides, since it's
> just a saw kerf wide.
>
> Just wanted to ask before I took all the time to set this up and cut the
> pieces out. When it seems this easy, it's often a good idea to ask about
> "gotchas".
>
> Puckdropper

Put a slight angle on the blade and you'll get a built in stop.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>

Love the plywood I-beams.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>

By the way, do you do *anything* half assed? sheesh. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/28/12 1:25 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>>
>> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
>> imagination.
>>
>
> Shows to go ya - I never even noticed them when I looked at the pictures.
> Kudo's to -MIKE- for pointing that out to those of us who are less
> observant!
>

I wish I could attribute it to being observant. I think I'm just too
anal. :-)
Seriously, I find I often get too caught up in the process instead of
the results. Not that the results suffer, but it often makes the process
less enjoyable. So when I look at a picture of something someone made,
my brain tends to gravitate towards "how did he do that and would it
make my process more efficient?" before actually admiring the product.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/28/12 4:39 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/28/2012 4:29 PM, G.W. Ross wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>
>>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>>
>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scroll on down and you can see how the doors and windows are framed and
>>> hinged, so that the siding lines up, using the plunge cut "cutouts"
>>>
>> I have actually seen people do a plunge cut with a jig saw, but I
>> wouldn't want to try it on 3/4" plywood.
>
> No kidding ... and it is almost impossible to start a jig saw "plunge
> cut" without some offcut/material sacrifice.
>
> Without some practice, doing it with a circular saw is not all the
> straightforward either.
>
> This is another one of those tasks where an actual _plunge_ saw excels
> ... go figure. ;)
>


With a jig saw, it helps to sharpen the tip. You really have to pull
forward while plunging to help stop it from pushing forward. I've done
it and can get it pretty clean most of the time, but it's not something I'd
want to "have to" do.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/29/12 4:35 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Swingman<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 4/29/2012 12:53 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF
>>> multitool then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things
>>> out. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
>>
>> Kerf size is different isn't it?
>
> Yes. (That's also the problem with plunging with a circular saw and
> finishing with a jigsaw.)
>

Multitool fine blade on both edges of the kerf.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/29/12 7:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/29/2012 6:06 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 4/29/12 4:35 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>> Swingman<[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 4/29/2012 12:53 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF
>>>>> multitool then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things
>>>>> out. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
>>>>
>>>> Kerf size is different isn't it?
>>>
>>> Yes. (That's also the problem with plunging with a circular saw and
>>> finishing with a jigsaw.)
>>>
>>
>> Multitool fine blade on both edges of the kerf.
>
> Not saying that this is not doable, but in the sum total of my
> experience with cabinets and doors (particularly if a consistent
> finished edge on both components, with a consistent inset gap is
> desirable) it is a helluva lot more efficient, in materials and time, to
> build face frames and fit the doors, than it is to do cutout doors in a
> front panel with a jig saw in an attempt to save time and effort
> applying hinges. :)
>

Well, duh. But we were talking about it, so hey. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Because of an infestation of pigeons on all balconies in my apartment
building, I've developed a hatred for birds of all types. The damn
birds made the balconies literally unusable.
****************************************************
I have the solution for you.
We had a big problem with pigeons at my church. We got a small mechanical
bird, that has a body with a motor in it that hooks to two wooden "wings."
About every 15 seconds, the motor turns on and rotates the wings for 4 or 5
seconds, and it continues 24/7.
I can't believe how well it works. I have seen _NO_ birds up on the dome,
since it was put up there.

-- Jim in NC

On 4/28/2012 1:25 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>>
>> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
>> imagination.
>>
>
> Shows to go ya - I never even noticed them when I looked at the pictures.
> Kudo's to -MIKE- for pointing that out to those of us who are less
> observant!
>
>
>> Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.
>
> Won't take any amount of convincing to make me a believer.
>
>>
>> I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)
>
> Yeahbut - where can you download the plans?

Plans?? We don't need no steeekning plans!

But since you asked, and are obviously in such great need, and lost
without them, here ya go:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5736535346313022498

:)

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:28:44 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 4/28/2012 9:52 PM, Dave wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:26:03 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>
>> Chicken coops? That's a little bit out of your field aren't they?
>> Maybe they're just an agreed to project to keep on the good side of
>> customers?
>
>I think he builds them for a strength building exercise. Like lifting a
>house.

I don't think Dave understands that those little things go for between
$600 and $900 apiece. There's a decent profit in them, thanks to the
Yuppies.

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:26:03 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698

Chicken coops? That's a little bit out of your field aren't they?
Maybe they're just an agreed to project to keep on the good side of
customers?

On 4/28/2012 12:32 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>>
>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Love the plywood I-beams.
>
> Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
> which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
> imagination.
>
> Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.
>
> I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)
>

Made!

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:39:23 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 4/29/2012 8:36 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 07:46:12 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/28/2012 3:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> Yeah, they're pretty cool, + considerably lighter than steel I-beams.
>>>> Do you wax them to keep finishes from sticking?
>>>
>>> ??? Can't say I have ever had a problem with a finish sticking to any
>>> thing to the point that it was a problem... Then again my finishes go on
>>> thin and absolutely with out runs. I use Gel varnishes and can varnish
>>> one side. immediately flip it and put it down on the work surface to do
>>> the other side.
>>
>> When, during Texas summers? Waterlox takes 15 minutes to dry to the
>> touch, but I wouldn't dream of tipping a freshly finished piece on a
>> finished side even then. Are you talking about cabinet sides which
>> will be screwed together?
>
>Any time of year and any piece, cabinet sides inner and outer sides,
>door fronts and backs, totally covered in one application per coat.
>
>Now mind you I don't let them stay against a particular flat surface
>while curing, only during application.
>After application I typically stand them up on the floor and leaning up
>against an object to let there be full ventilation on all sides. I
>might be working on 15~20 pieces at one time.

Oh, OK. But, still, it's amazing that it doesn't stick even during a
few minute rest on the fresh finish.

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:32:03 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
>which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
>imagination.
>
>Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.
>
>I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)

I can't wait to see how Leon incorporates his pinned Domino
construction into them.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:19:43 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>There is a large "urban farming" movement in the Austin area, including
>the raising of hens in small, urban backyards. Many of these folks are
>indeed 30 something yuppies, most in the tech industry and with money to
>spare, and want structures that don't detract from the neighborhood, or
>look like a funky chicken coop, although that is the actual name of
>their annual tour:

Different locale, different perspectives I guess. A couple of months
back there was a drive by a group wanting legalize chicken raising in
the Toronto area. It was shot down in a pile of feathers.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/25/no-legal-backyard-chickens-for-toronto-anytime-soon-as-committe-defers-study/

On Wed, 02 May 2012 18:50:42 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
>> our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
>> picking liberal hearts.
>http://www.statesman.com/news/local/georgetown-makes-it-easier-for-residents-to-raise-2325410.html?cxtype=rss_ece_frontpage

I have to question how long it will last. Roosters crowing at sunrise
waking up everyone within earshot. Escaped hens roaming the streets,
feathers blowing everywhere. Bird poop is usually toxic so there may
be repercussions there.

Nope, I think it's a bad idea, at least in an urban environment.

On 4/29/2012 10:22 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:19:43 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:


>> Not to mention that they are considered "portable", and wrestling these
>> thing around by yourself during the build does not get easier the older
>> you get. :)
>
> Tell me about it. I'm still fairly strong, but it's fadin', and I
> haven't even hit 60 yet.

That slope gets steeper and slipperier. I used to carry a tons worth of
feed, two one hundred pound sacks at a time, 1/4" mile to the barn, in
rubber boots, in ankle deep mud, after a big rain when the feed trucks
couldn't make it all the way in.

Now I find myself looking for someone to help me shift a sheet of 3/4"
ply ... I can still do it, but I might pay for it for a couple of weeks.

> I finally got some non-narcotic pain meds from the doctor to keep me
> afloat, and my energy is up as a result.

If you don't mind asking, what is it? I just got scolded and taken off
OTC ibuprofen, which had me convinced I was twenty years younger. :(

--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 4/28/2012 12:22 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>
>>
>
> By the way, do you do *anything* half assed? sheesh. :-)

LOL ... never when it comes to doing things for other people and
expecting to be paid for it.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
>> making doors and windows for chicken coops:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/ChezPouletAustin_Ranchette02#5677889345052179698
>>
>>
>
> Love the plywood I-beams.

Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
imagination.

Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.

I think I even have Leon making some now. ;)

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop