[email protected] wrote:
> Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the
> router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? I'm thinking about
> gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack
> at it. Any other ideas will be appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> Larry
If it's not totally wacked you should be able to shim it with some
shaving from a hand plane.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"[email protected]" wrote:
> Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to
> the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise?
Epoxy & microballoons.
Make a fairing putty with above, then butter the mortice, shove tenon
into place, clamp and remove excess fairing putty.
The gates of Hell will rust shut before the joint fails.
Lew
Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing
something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and
make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side?
Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon
and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus.
Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and
only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many
cases, it won't make a difference or maybe make very little but on a
chair or an apron of a table that will be dragged around, etc. It is
not anywhere near as long lasting as the classic M&T.
Whew, now I feel better.
On Dec 14, 2:40=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the
> router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? =A0I'm thinking abou=
t
> gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack
> at it. =A0Any other ideas will be appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> Larry
Duh. Oops, I think you are correct sir. I just saw loose tenon was
thinking floating tenon. People use both terms right?
On Dec 15, 4:44=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing
> something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and
> make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side?
>
> I could be mistaken here but I thnk it is a tennon that fits loosely, not=
a
> floating tennon.
I hope to live on through my work much as Gustav Stickley or Sam
Maloof (GRHS).
On Dec 15, 12:08=A0pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't think I will be around in 100 years. In any case, I don't care if=
it
> falls apart after I'm dead. Being dead, nothing much is going to bother m=
e.
>
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned
> and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger?
>
> On Dec 15, 10:13 am, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>
>
> > "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> writes:
> > >Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing
> > >something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and
> > >make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side?
>
> > >Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon
> > >and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus.
> > >Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and
> > >only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many
>
> > Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon
> > was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint
> > types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest).
>
> > scott- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned
and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger?
On Dec 15, 10:13=A0am, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> writes:
> >Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing
> >something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and
> >make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side?
>
> >Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon
> >and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus.
> >Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and
> >only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many
>
> Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. =A0 Loose tenon
> was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint
> types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest).
>
> scott
On Dec 14, 4:40=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the
> router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? =A0I'm thinking abou=
t
> gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack
> at it. =A0Any other ideas will be appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> Larry
Sounds like you have it figured out.
"The sign of a truly good woodworker is his/her ability to effectively
repair screw-ups."
I don't think I will be around in 100 years. In any case, I don't care if it
falls apart after I'm dead. Being dead, nothing much is going to bother me.
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned
and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger?
On Dec 15, 10:13 am, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> writes:
> >Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing
> >something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and
> >make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side?
>
> >Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon
> >and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus.
> >Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and
> >only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many
>
> Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon
> was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint
> types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest).
>
> scott
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I don't think I will be around in 100 years. In any case, I don't care if
>it falls apart after I'm dead. Being dead, nothing much is going to bother
>me.
The way thinking and things are going in this day and age you may still be
liable, even being dead. ;~)
Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon
> was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint
> types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest).
My copy of that same report does not jive with the above with regard to
loose/floating tenons ...
3â8-IN. MORTISE & TENON 1,444 lb.
3â8-IN. FLOATING M&T 1,396 lb.
3â8-IN. WEDGED M&T 1,210 lb.
3â8-IN. PINNED M&T 1,162 lb.
Traditional mortise and tenons were ranked 4th in the overall strength
test, being about 3.5% stronger than loose/floating tenons of equal
thickness, which came in 5th.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Dec 15, 4:44 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing
> something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and
> make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side?
>
> I could be mistaken here but I thnk it is a tennon that fits loosely, not
> a
> floating tennon.
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:39c6c8e0-5f21-46f0-b019-f4f54bdfc643@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Duh. Oops, I think you are correct sir. I just saw loose tenon was
thinking floating tenon. People use both terms right?
I am not sure that I have heard "loose tennons" being described as floating
tennons until you mentioned it. Therefore now that you have said it,
"people" have used both terms. LOL
Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> TOP POSTING CORRECTED:
>> In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned
>> and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger?
>>
>
> Answer: Any good glue joint can last centuries. Its life will be shortened by
> moisture, heat and stress. Moisture on a tabletop is a common factor. Heat can be.
> And tabletop joints are stressed at the ends by the migration of moisture through the
> end grain -- that's why antique tops split on the ends typically.
If you do a proper job of pinning, and with the technique as a goal, you
don't even need glue on an M&T joint. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a258fe9d-0f61-43b5-9d42-8295d4d0f546@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 14, 5:40 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the
> router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? I'm thinking about
> gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack
> at it. Any other ideas will be appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> Larry
veneer and sanding
I like that one. WW
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing
something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and
make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side?
I could be mistaken here but I thnk it is a tennon that fits loosely, not a
floating tennon.
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> writes:
>Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing
>something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and
>make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side?
>
>Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon
>and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus.
>Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and
>only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many
Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon
was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint
types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest).
scott
On Dec 14, 5:40=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the
> router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? =A0I'm thinking abou=
t
> gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack
> at it. =A0Any other ideas will be appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> Larry
veneer and sanding
On Dec 14, 7:17=A0pm, GarageWoodworks <[email protected]>
wrote:
Where does one purchase micro balloons?
Why, at the Micro Party Store, of course.
Get the Helium-filled balloons for a lighter project.
Pick up some little birthday candles while you're there.
On Dec 14, 5:46=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "[email protected]" wrote:
> > Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to
> > the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise?
>
> Epoxy & microballoons.
>
> Make a fairing putty with above, then butter the mortice, shove tenon
> into place, clamp and remove excess fairing putty.
>
> The gates of Hell will rust shut before the joint fails.
>
> Lew
Where does one purchase microballoons?
On Dec 15, 11:00=A0am, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> TOP POSTING CORRECTED:
> >On Dec 15, 10:13=3DA0am, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> >In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned
> >and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger?
> Answer: Any good glue joint can last centuries. Its life will be shortene=
d by
> moisture, heat and stress.
A lot of modern glues will last centuries, but the glues of yesteryear
included animal and milk glues that can be attacked by the right kind
of fungus, even if dry. Formulations with fungus sensitivity
give rise to powder where one knows there USED to be glue.
Wood sap, too, is sometimes food for the beasties; old pine is more
sturdy than old oak because the sap is resinous and indigestible.
Are modern 'hide glue' formulae made with fungicide? I don't know.
That is what I used to do when rebuilding old oak furniture. Assuming that
your router is still set up as ot was before.
Another trick I used to do was wrapping a couple layers of medical gauze
arond it, then soaking it with a fari amount of glue.
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the
> router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise?
GarageWoodworks wrote:
> On Dec 14, 5:46 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "[email protected]" wrote:
>>> Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to
>>> the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise?
>>
>> Epoxy & microballoons.
>>
>> Make a fairing putty with above, then butter the mortice, shove tenon
>> into place, clamp and remove excess fairing putty.
>>
>> The gates of Hell will rust shut before the joint fails.
>>
>> Lew
>
> Where does one purchase microballoons?
Among other sources Aircraft Spruce and Specialty
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/fillers.html.
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned
> and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger?
Have the same dimensional changes that turned the glue into powder also
either split out the section through which the pin passes or loosened the
pin to the point that it long since fell out?
>
> On Dec 15, 10:13 am, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> writes:
>>> Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I
>>> missing something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the
>>> trash and make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side?
>>
>>> Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon
>>> and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus.
>>> Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and
>>> only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many
>>
>> Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon
>> was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint
>> types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest).
>>
>> scott
Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon
> was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint
> types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest).
Hmm. Betcha they didn't test this one:
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/LLJ/
pinned or unpinned. It's the only joint I don't dare dry fit. :)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the
> router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? I'm thinking about
> gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack at
> it. Any other ideas will be appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> Larry
You could probably more easily and safely glue two thicker chunks of wood on
to the tennon and have at it again.
J. Clarke wrote:
> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>> In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned
>> and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger?
>
> Have the same dimensional changes that turned the glue into powder also
> either split out the section through which the pin passes or loosened the
> pin to the point that it long since fell out?
Indeed ... in many of these old pinned joints with no glue, you often
see the detrimental effects of the stress of mechanical compression on
both the pins and the exterior bore hole area, eventually ending in
failure of the joint.
The "test of time" is (for) a relative term. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:48:39 -0600, the infamous Swingman
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>Morris Dovey wrote:
>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>> Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon
>>> was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint
>>> types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest).
>>
>> Hmm. Betcha they didn't test this one:
>>
>> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/LLJ/
>>
>> pinned or unpinned. It's the only joint I don't dare dry fit. :)
>
>Love it! Gonna run right out to the shop and grab my mortise chisel .... :)
>
>Hell, with a CNC, ya don't need no steenking joints! All you need is a
>block of wood/whatever as big as the piece and program that puppy to cut
>away the superfluous material ... <G,D&R>
I thought you'd be out there one-handing your Domino by now, Swingy.
--
Indifference to evidence: Climate alarmists have become brilliantly
adept at changing their terms to suit their convenience. So it's
"global warming" when there's a heat wave, but it's "climate change"
when there's a cold snap. The earth has registered no discernable
warming in the past 10 years: Very well then, they say, natural
variability must be the cause. But as for the warming that did occur
in the 1980s and 1990s, that plainly was evidence of man-made warming.
Am I missing something here? --Brett Stephens, WSJ Opinion 12/09/09
Micro-balloons can be purchases at hobby stores - airplanes and boats
use it because it is light and not heavy... but strong.
It is often used as a filler.
Martin
GarageWoodworks wrote:
> On Dec 14, 5:46 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "[email protected]" wrote:
>>> Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to
>>> the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise?
>> Epoxy & microballoons.
>>
>> Make a fairing putty with above, then butter the mortice, shove tenon
>> into place, clamp and remove excess fairing putty.
>>
>> The gates of Hell will rust shut before the joint fails.
>>
>> Lew
>
> Where does one purchase microballoons?
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:48:39 -0600, the infamous Swingman
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>> Morris Dovey wrote:
>>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>
>>>> Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon
>>>> was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint
>>>> types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest).
>>> Hmm. Betcha they didn't test this one:
>>>
>>> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/LLJ/
>>>
>>> pinned or unpinned. It's the only joint I don't dare dry fit. :)
>> Love it! Gonna run right out to the shop and grab my mortise chisel .... :)
>>
>> Hell, with a CNC, ya don't need no steenking joints! All you need is a
>> block of wood/whatever as big as the piece and program that puppy to cut
>> away the superfluous material ... <G,D&R>
>
> I thought you'd be out there one-handing your Domino by now, Swingy.
Got that little Multi-Router thingy, don't need no Domino. Besides, I
lose my ass at Domino(es) _every_ Saturday night ... leaves a bad taste.
<g>
> --
> Indifference to evidence: Climate alarmists have become brilliantly
> adept at changing their terms to suit their convenience. So it's
> "global warming" when there's a heat wave, but it's "climate change"
> when there's a cold snap. The earth has registered no discernable
> warming in the past 10 years: Very well then, they say, natural
> variability must be the cause. But as for the warming that did occur
> in the 1980s and 1990s, that plainly was evidence of man-made warming.
> Am I missing something here? --Brett Stephens, WSJ Opinion 12/09/09
Left in on porpoise ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:40:18 -0600, the infamous
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the
>router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? I'm thinking about
>gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack
>at it. Any other ideas will be appreciated.
I'd take it down a bit more, then glue on a thicker strip, and then
cut to size if it were mine. I'd keep the gluelines away from one
another (jus'cuz), though it probably wouldn't matter.
--
Every day above ground is a Good Day(tm).
-----------
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> TOP POSTING CORRECTED:
>On Dec 15, 10:13=A0am, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> writes:
>> >Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing
>> >something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and
>> >make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side?
>>
>> >Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon
>> >and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus.
>> >Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and
>> >only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many
>>
>> Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. =A0 Loose tenon
>> was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint
>> types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest).
>>
>> scott
>
>In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned
>and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger?
>
Answer: Any good glue joint can last centuries. Its life will be shortened by
moisture, heat and stress. Moisture on a tabletop is a common factor. Heat can be.
And tabletop joints are stressed at the ends by the migration of moisture through the
end grain -- that's why antique tops split on the ends typically.
Morris Dovey wrote:
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon
>> was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint
>> types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest).
>
> Hmm. Betcha they didn't test this one:
>
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/LLJ/
>
> pinned or unpinned. It's the only joint I don't dare dry fit. :)
Love it! Gonna run right out to the shop and grab my mortise chisel .... :)
Hell, with a CNC, ya don't need no steenking joints! All you need is a
block of wood/whatever as big as the piece and program that puppy to cut
away the superfluous material ... <G,D&R>
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)