RT

Rolling Thunder

03/07/2004 12:07 AM

Shellac

I understand shellac may be used as a sealer, barrier coat. Does that
work with latex paint? I've made some shelves that attach to the wall
and plan on painting gross white latex. Could I use shellac as a
primer/barrier for this purpose? The shelves are for indoors to place
some pictures on for the wife.

Appreciate the feedback,

Thunder


This topic has 22 replies

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

04/07/2004 6:26 PM

Rolling Thunder wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 19:33:48 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>> If you aren't gonna be sliding books on and off the
>>shelves constantly, the requirements of a super hard finish
>>will be greatly reduced. A tinted lacquer would work well
>>and look great over the luan, once you get it sanded smooth
>>and sealed with a vinyl sealer.
>>
>>dave
>
>
> I'm just learning about finishing. What is a vinyl sealer?
> Could shellac work as well?
>
> Would cutting the 3 lb shellac to 2 lb. be worthwhile doing
> as a sealer?
>
> TIA,
>
> Thunder
Thunder, rather than get your info piece meal, let me make a
suggestion that has been repeated many times on the Wreck:
pick up a copy of Bob Flexner's "Understanding Wood
Finishing". page 134 will explain vinyl sealers, shellac,
primers etc. vinyl sealer is TOUGH. when you want good
adhesion and a durable lacquer surface, vinyl is the way to
go.

as to the dewaxed shellac: a 2lb cut would work under some
finishes, but it isn't recommended by Bob under poly. some
guys use it anyway...

dave

ps another good book is Finishes & Finishing Techniques by
Taunton Press. There is another favorite book by Wreckers
but I am momentarily at a loss to remember the author.
It'll come to me.

dave

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

06/07/2004 8:22 PM

Rolling Thunder wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 19:33:48 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>> If you aren't gonna be sliding books on and off the
>>shelves constantly, the requirements of a super hard finish
>>will be greatly reduced. A tinted lacquer would work well
>>and look great over the luan, once you get it sanded smooth
>>and sealed with a vinyl sealer.
>>
>>dave
>
>
> I'm just learning about finishing. What is a vinyl sealer?
> Could shellac work as well?
>
> Would cutting the 3 lb shellac to 2 lb. be worthwhile doing
> as a sealer?
>
> TIA,
>
> Thunder
the other author is Jeff Jewitt. I've read some of his
articles but don't have his book.

dave

nn

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

07/07/2004 12:26 PM

Do yourself a favor and get it! Visit his forums
www.homesteadfinishing.com

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:22:23 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>the other author is Jeff Jewitt. I've read some of his
>articles but don't have his book.

RT

Rolling Thunder

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

03/07/2004 3:36 PM

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 01:21:50 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:



>skip the latex for shelves. NOT a good idea. What material
>are the shelves? Knowing that would provide the Wreckers
>with the info needed to suggest the proper way to finish.
>
>
>dave

For the face board, I used molding trim. It is probably a pine. The
top and bottom is lauan. I made these out of scraps. The wife was
pointing to these shelves in a mail order and they were $50 each plus
shipping. I thought that very excessive, so I thought I'd try my hand
at making some. It took a couple proto types (grin) but I got the
hang of it; compound cuts at 45 and 22 degrees. Dado'd to
insert the tops and bottoms to the facing. Even made some keyholes
with the router the son gave me for a birthday present.

Thanks for the guidance. Looks like another trip to HD for some
oil based gloss white,

Thunder

Lr

"Leon"

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

03/07/2004 12:42 AM

Yes you can use Shellac for a base coat. I do however recommend an alkyd
oil based paint for shelves. Latex paint tends to stick to what ever you
set on it.


"Rolling Thunder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I understand shellac may be used as a sealer, barrier coat. Does that
> work with latex paint? I've made some shelves that attach to the wall
> and plan on painting gross white latex. Could I use shellac as a
> primer/barrier for this purpose? The shelves are for indoors to place
> some pictures on for the wife.
>
> Appreciate the feedback,
>
> Thunder

Bp

"Baron"

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

06/07/2004 9:50 PM

I misspoke. B-I-N is a three pound cut. I agree with you about the
ease of sanding. As shellac, it sands well but it can be a real pain to use
in hot weather as it dries so fast. I'm starting to add little retarder to
it

"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 23:03:41 -0400, "Baron" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Absolutely. In fact, Zinsser B-I-N is a four pound cut of white
> >pigmented shellac and is used in exactly this manner.
>
> Awesome stuff, BIN is! I love the way that stuff sands when used as
> an MDF primer. The fact that they made it available in spray bombs
> for quickie jobs is another plus.
>
> Barry

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

05/07/2004 12:24 AM

Patrick Olguin wrote:

> Rolling Thunder <[email protected]> pixelized:
>
>>Thanks for the guidance. Looks like another trip to HD for some
>>oil based gloss white,
>
>
> You're better off with a water-based acrylic latex. It will dry
> faster and the color will stay true (you mentioned indoor use). Also,
> you'll want to topcoat with shellac. It is the best finish for
> bookshelves, period. Even after a hundred years or so, it will not
> gum up the way oil-based products do when they break down. When
> shellac breaks down from age, it loses it's elasticity and crazes
> (cracks, Keeter). The nice feature is that it is repairable... even a
> hunnert years later. Nice, eh? Unless your books are covered in 80
> grit, it's unlikely any book is ever going to damage a shellac finish.
>
> You can rub out your shellac finish to whatever level of gloss you'd
> like, from satin to something resembling a piano finish.
>
> If you're looking for antique finish, milk paint is a neato (yes, I
> said neato) choice. Just about all the mail-order wooddorking supply
> houses will carry it.
>
> Humbly submitted,
> O'Deen
earth to P.O. : the shelf is for pictures; not books. PAY
ATTENTION.


dave

pP

[email protected] (Patrick Olguin)

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

04/07/2004 5:04 PM

Rolling Thunder <[email protected]> pixelized:
>
> Thanks for the guidance. Looks like another trip to HD for some
> oil based gloss white,

You're better off with a water-based acrylic latex. It will dry
faster and the color will stay true (you mentioned indoor use). Also,
you'll want to topcoat with shellac. It is the best finish for
bookshelves, period. Even after a hundred years or so, it will not
gum up the way oil-based products do when they break down. When
shellac breaks down from age, it loses it's elasticity and crazes
(cracks, Keeter). The nice feature is that it is repairable... even a
hunnert years later. Nice, eh? Unless your books are covered in 80
grit, it's unlikely any book is ever going to damage a shellac finish.

You can rub out your shellac finish to whatever level of gloss you'd
like, from satin to something resembling a piano finish.

If you're looking for antique finish, milk paint is a neato (yes, I
said neato) choice. Just about all the mail-order wooddorking supply
houses will carry it.

Humbly submitted,
O'Deen

RT

Rolling Thunder

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

03/07/2004 3:26 PM

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 15:09:43 GMT, Rolling Thunder <[email protected]>
wrote:


>>skip the latex for shelves. NOT a good idea. What material
>>are the shelves? Knowing that would provide the Wreckers
>>with the info needed to suggest the proper way to finish.
>>
>>
>>dave

The top and bottom are lauan. The facing is floor trim molding.

Thunder

Gg

GerryG

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

10/07/2004 2:03 AM

I usually recommend starting with Flexner for a good overview, then getting
all of Jewitt's books. Besides a variety of techniques, IMHO he includes more
practical information on the fine points than anybody else.

Regarding shellac under poly, I typically use a 1# cut of Homestead (Jewitt's
company) dewaxed shellac under water base poly. It avoids many potential
problems.
GerryG

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 12:26:51 -0400, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Do yourself a favor and get it! Visit his forums
>www.homesteadfinishing.com
>
>On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:22:23 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>the other author is Jeff Jewitt. I've read some of his
>>articles but don't have his book.

Cn

"CW"

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

02/07/2004 6:01 PM

I have never used shellac so can't give any advice from personal experience
but of what I hear, it should work just fine. The point of my post though
was to caution you about the paint. For a shelf that things are going to sit
on, latex paint is chancy. Some of it dries very hard and will cause no
problems but with lot of it, you will have things sticking to it. It won't
happen immediately but over time, they will stick. You would be much better
off with oil base paint.
"Rolling Thunder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I understand shellac may be used as a sealer, barrier coat. Does that
> work with latex paint? I've made some shelves that attach to the wall
> and plan on painting gross white latex. Could I use shellac as a
> primer/barrier for this purpose? The shelves are for indoors to place
> some pictures on for the wife.
>
> Appreciate the feedback,
>
> Thunder

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

04/07/2004 6:19 PM

Rolling Thunder wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 01:21:50 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Rolling Thunder wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I understand shellac may be used as a sealer, barrier coat. Does that
>>>work with latex paint? I've made some shelves that attach to the wall
>>>and plan on painting gross white latex. Could I use shellac as a
>>>primer/barrier for this purpose? The shelves are for indoors to place
>>>some pictures on for the wife.
>>>
>>>Appreciate the feedback,
>>>
>>>Thunder
>>
>>skip the latex for shelves. NOT a good idea. What material
>>are the shelves? Knowing that would provide the Wreckers
>>with the info needed to suggest the proper way to finish.
>>
>>
>>dave
>
>
>
> Which Bay Area? I'm originally from Oakland, myself.
>
> Thunder
I'm in south San Jose. Been here since 72 when I finished
my military stint. I think Oakland is scary than 'Nam. :)


dave

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

03/07/2004 1:21 AM

Rolling Thunder wrote:

> I understand shellac may be used as a sealer, barrier coat. Does that
> work with latex paint? I've made some shelves that attach to the wall
> and plan on painting gross white latex. Could I use shellac as a
> primer/barrier for this purpose? The shelves are for indoors to place
> some pictures on for the wife.
>
> Appreciate the feedback,
>
> Thunder
skip the latex for shelves. NOT a good idea. What material
are the shelves? Knowing that would provide the Wreckers
with the info needed to suggest the proper way to finish.


dave

JC

"J. Clarke"

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

02/07/2004 9:51 PM

Leon wrote:

> Yes you can use Shellac for a base coat. I do however recommend an alkyd
> oil based paint for shelves. Latex paint tends to stick to what ever you
> set on it.

The technical term for this is "blocking". Not all latex paints do it, some
will even be labelled "non-blocking", although it may be in the fine print.
It's also more likely with glossier finishes.

> "Rolling Thunder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I understand shellac may be used as a sealer, barrier coat. Does that
>> work with latex paint? I've made some shelves that attach to the wall
>> and plan on painting gross white latex. Could I use shellac as a
>> primer/barrier for this purpose? The shelves are for indoors to place
>> some pictures on for the wife.
>>
>> Appreciate the feedback,
>>
>> Thunder

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

RT

Rolling Thunder

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

06/07/2004 7:36 PM

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 18:26:05 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>Rolling Thunder wrote:
>

>Thunder, rather than get your info piece meal, let me make a
>suggestion that has been repeated many times on the Wreck:
>pick up a copy of Bob Flexner's "Understanding Wood
>Finishing". page 134 will explain vinyl sealers, shellac,
>primers etc. vinyl sealer is TOUGH. when you want good
>adhesion and a durable lacquer surface, vinyl is the way to
>go.
>
>as to the dewaxed shellac: a 2lb cut would work under some
>finishes, but it isn't recommended by Bob under poly. some
>guys use it anyway...
>
>dave
>
>ps another good book is Finishes & Finishing Techniques by
>Taunton Press. There is another favorite book by Wreckers
>but I am momentarily at a loss to remember the author.
>It'll come to me.
>
>dave

Dave,

OK, I'll look 'em up at the library.

Thanks,

BTW, I lived in San Jose 17 years a few blocks from the Milpitas city
limits; off New Piedmont.

Bp

"Baron"

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

02/07/2004 11:03 PM

Absolutely. In fact, Zinsser B-I-N is a four pound cut of white
pigmented shellac and is used in exactly this manner.

As for latex paint, if you use a vinyl latex, you will really need to
wait about two weeks before it is completely cured so you won't get bad
impressions from the weight of the pictures. Acrylic latex takes about the
same time but results in a slightly harder film. Pigmented lacquer would be
the best but is hard to find and handle.

Good Luck.

"Rolling Thunder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I understand shellac may be used as a sealer, barrier coat. Does that
> work with latex paint? I've made some shelves that attach to the wall
> and plan on painting gross white latex. Could I use shellac as a
> primer/barrier for this purpose? The shelves are for indoors to place
> some pictures on for the wife.
>
> Appreciate the feedback,
>
> Thunder

nn

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

03/07/2004 8:55 AM

Dewaxed shellac can be used under any finish, I've read. Waxy shellac
can be used under some finishes, believe oil based but could be wrong.
Zinssers Seal Coat is dewaxed with 3 year shelf life.

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 00:07:48 GMT, Rolling Thunder <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I understand shellac may be used as a sealer, barrier coat. Does that
>work with latex paint? I've made some shelves that attach to the wall
>and plan on painting gross white latex. Could I use shellac as a
>primer/barrier for this purpose? The shelves are for indoors to place
>some pictures on for the wife.
>
>Appreciate the feedback,
>
>Thunder

RT

Rolling Thunder

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

03/07/2004 3:09 PM

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 01:21:50 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>Rolling Thunder wrote:
>
>> I understand shellac may be used as a sealer, barrier coat. Does that
>> work with latex paint? I've made some shelves that attach to the wall
>> and plan on painting gross white latex. Could I use shellac as a
>> primer/barrier for this purpose? The shelves are for indoors to place
>> some pictures on for the wife.
>>
>> Appreciate the feedback,
>>
>> Thunder
>skip the latex for shelves. NOT a good idea. What material
>are the shelves? Knowing that would provide the Wreckers
>with the info needed to suggest the proper way to finish.
>
>
>dave


Which Bay Area? I'm originally from Oakland, myself.

Thunder

RT

Rolling Thunder

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

04/07/2004 4:35 PM

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 19:33:48 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:


> If you aren't gonna be sliding books on and off the
>shelves constantly, the requirements of a super hard finish
>will be greatly reduced. A tinted lacquer would work well
>and look great over the luan, once you get it sanded smooth
>and sealed with a vinyl sealer.
>
>dave

I'm just learning about finishing. What is a vinyl sealer?
Could shellac work as well?

Would cutting the 3 lb shellac to 2 lb. be worthwhile doing
as a sealer?

TIA,

Thunder

Ba

B a r r y

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

03/07/2004 11:08 AM

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 23:03:41 -0400, "Baron" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Absolutely. In fact, Zinsser B-I-N is a four pound cut of white
>pigmented shellac and is used in exactly this manner.

Awesome stuff, BIN is! I love the way that stuff sands when used as
an MDF primer. The fact that they made it available in spray bombs
for quickie jobs is another plus.

Barry

RT

Rolling Thunder

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

03/07/2004 3:36 PM

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 01:21:50 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:


>skip the latex for shelves. NOT a good idea. What material
>are the shelves? Knowing that would provide the Wreckers
>with the info needed to suggest the proper way to finish.
>
>
>dave

The shelves are made of floor trim molding (likely pine) and the
tops and bottoms are of lauan. I made these from scraps in the
wood pile. It took a couple prototypes (grin) to figure out the
compound cuts, dadoing, and key holing.

The wife was pointing to these shelves in a mail order. I thought
$50 a piece plus shipping was a way too high and made them
instead.

Appreciate the comments about the latex paint. Hello Home
Depot,

Thunder

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Rolling Thunder on 03/07/2004 12:07 AM

03/07/2004 7:33 PM

Rolling Thunder wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 01:21:50 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>skip the latex for shelves. NOT a good idea. What material
>>are the shelves? Knowing that would provide the Wreckers
>>with the info needed to suggest the proper way to finish.
>>
>>
>>dave
>
>
> The shelves are made of floor trim molding (likely pine) and the
> tops and bottoms are of lauan. I made these from scraps in the
> wood pile. It took a couple prototypes (grin) to figure out the
> compound cuts, dadoing, and key holing.
>
> The wife was pointing to these shelves in a mail order. I thought
> $50 a piece plus shipping was a way too high and made them
> instead.
>
> Appreciate the comments about the latex paint. Hello Home
> Depot,
>
> Thunder
If you aren't gonna be sliding books on and off the
shelves constantly, the requirements of a super hard finish
will be greatly reduced. A tinted lacquer would work well
and look great over the luan, once you get it sanded smooth
and sealed with a vinyl sealer.

dave


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