Has anyone tried BONA 'TRAFFIC' or 'MEGA' water based floor finishing
products (listed here http://208.139.199.128/productspecs/index.asp )
They make some interesting durability claims here
http://www.bonakemi.com/contractors/twice_as_tough2.html
I'm looking to redo my floors just once and be done with it.... I have
little faith in Home Depot pushing their "Parks' oil and water based
products. Any experiences, thoughts, ideas or considerations accepted.
TIA
Dave, Thanks for the suggestions. I was actually considering using
MinWax stain but then started getting cold feet when reading about
adhesion issues.
Which DriFast stain did you use?
Also, did you sand the floors yourself? If so, drum sander? vibrating
plate sander (Home Depot rental)? did you use sandpaper or screens
(still trying to figure out what a 'screen' is/used).
Did you buff the floor between coats or at the end when cured? If so,
how and with what?
Where did you buy the BONA products? Local? On-line? (I'm in San Jose,
CA)
Many thanks,
Jonas
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:31:48 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
wrote:
>yes, I used Mega a couple months ago on an oak floor. It works great.
>be sure to use their applicator. I used the 18" one. I put down the
>sealer first, followed by 2 coats of mega gloss. then I put down one
>coat of semi gloss. by using gloss except for the top coat, the clarity
>of the wood shows through. be sure you work FAST! the stuff works well
>as long as you don't dally around. the smell is only mildly
>objectionable to me. Most finishing products irritate my sinuses, so
>I'd rate the Bonakemi stuff pretty good on that score.
>
>one last caveat: don't use Minwax stain; use the Bonakemi Dri Fast
>stains instead. Bonakemi states that they have adhesion issues with
>Minwhacks.
>
>
>dave
>
>JP wrote:
>> Has anyone tried BONA 'TRAFFIC' or 'MEGA' water based floor finishing
>> products (listed here http://208.139.199.128/productspecs/index.asp )
>>
>> They make some interesting durability claims here
>> http://www.bonakemi.com/contractors/twice_as_tough2.html
>>
>> I'm looking to redo my floors just once and be done with it.... I have
>> little faith in Home Depot pushing their "Parks' oil and water based
>> products. Any experiences, thoughts, ideas or considerations accepted.
>>
>> TIA
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> writes:
>The end result is pretty nice, but my 2 regrets are that I worked like a
>slave to do the job, and with rental four machines, plus the materials,
>I only saved a couple of hundred dollars, and the slight depressions
>left by the drum sander. (The pad sander used to remove the excess wood
>filler isn't going to remove the drum sanding boo boos.) I spent over
>$500 to do one room 13 x 17.
My house is 18 months old. About 6 months ago, I had a problem with
my freezer dumping enough water to warp some of the floor.
The damage wasn't bad enough to replace the floor, but I need to have it
sanded and refinished.
The quote from the folks who installed the floor was $3 per sq foot, a
total of $1500 for 500 sq feet. This includes sanding, stain, and two
coats of waterborne poly. I'm going to wait until next summer so I can
live in my RV for a few days while the work is done.
Brian Elfert
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> writes:
>Brian, I don't think that 2 coats of waterborne is sufficient. I used 1
>coat of sealer, 2 coats of gloss, and one coat of semi gloss. That is
>pretty much the bare minimum. that stuff is THIN. I was told before I
>started the job to do that many coats, and judging from the results, I
>would even consider one more coat to not be a bad, although perhaps
>unnecessary, idea. The pro's told me 2 coats is not enough. When you
>get a competitive quote, they MAY be cutting corners to give you a good
>price...ask around.
If there was no stain, they would do another coat of poly. The floor with
two coats of poly doesn't show any wear at all after 18 months.
I'm going to use the same guys who put the floor in originally as they did
a great job on the initial install. The contractor who built the house
only uses the best subs he can find. Of course, the cost reflected that.
Brian Elfert
Hi Sam,
My floors are physcially in fine shape, I just need to remove some 40
year old varnish that has yellowed tremendously.
The floor buffer you mention should do the trick. Anything that the
first time user needs to be aware of? I would assume that one can get
sanding discs in different grits too?
Also, which pad should I use at the end of the process to remove
raised wood fibers, dust and other imperfections?
Thanks,
JP
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:31:31 -0500, Sam Shank
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> The vibrating pad sander is VERY slow to remove wood. I used it mostly
>> to remove excess filler and even for that it was excruciatingly
>> slooooooow. I understand your reluctance to uncover all those nails,
>> however.
>
>If you're that bad of a floor sander and afraid to use the drum, disc
>it. Rent a 175rpm floor buffer, buy a red pad, and get some 80 or even
>60 grit discs and dry disc it. MUCH less aggressive than the drum
>sander, but way better that that silly machine at home depot.
yes, I used Mega a couple months ago on an oak floor. It works great.
be sure to use their applicator. I used the 18" one. I put down the
sealer first, followed by 2 coats of mega gloss. then I put down one
coat of semi gloss. by using gloss except for the top coat, the clarity
of the wood shows through. be sure you work FAST! the stuff works well
as long as you don't dally around. the smell is only mildly
objectionable to me. Most finishing products irritate my sinuses, so
I'd rate the Bonakemi stuff pretty good on that score.
one last caveat: don't use Minwax stain; use the Bonakemi Dri Fast
stains instead. Bonakemi states that they have adhesion issues with
Minwhacks.
dave
JP wrote:
> Has anyone tried BONA 'TRAFFIC' or 'MEGA' water based floor finishing
> products (listed here http://208.139.199.128/productspecs/index.asp )
>
> They make some interesting durability claims here
> http://www.bonakemi.com/contractors/twice_as_tough2.html
>
> I'm looking to redo my floors just once and be done with it.... I have
> little faith in Home Depot pushing their "Parks' oil and water based
> products. Any experiences, thoughts, ideas or considerations accepted.
>
> TIA
Sam, I've got a feeling that the edger that I rented at HD was less than
ideal, because it had the sanding surface at a slight angle to the
floor, so that only the front edge would cut. I tried to adjust the
feet and couldn't move them. Should the disk have been parallel to the
floor?
I was too chicken to use the drum sander AFTER the trowelable filler,
but looking back I can see it would have been a hell of a lot quicker
than the pad sander! :)
dave
dave
Sam Shank wrote:
> Excellent instructions, but some observations from a semi-pro (I do it
> on the side...)
>
> MEGA Satin is my favorite. It's almost impossible to screw up. It's so
> thin, that you can prcatically pour it on and walk away. Don't let the
> 'thin' fool you into thinking it's a bad product. It's an excellent
> product.
>
> You don't need to buff between coats if you apply them less than like 40
> hours apart. It says to wait 2 hours, but I typicaly go 1 hour without a
> problem. 2 hours is ideal, if you can though.
>
> If you do need to buff between coats, yes, maroon pads are what you want.
>
> Trowelable wood filler is a great idea before your last sand with the
> drum sander. It will show you where you screwed up and left gouges with
> your sanding. Go easy and feather in!
>
> Run your edger FLAT. Never never lift it on edge unless you want some
> nice gouges. I only do the rough sanding with the edger, then use my
> 4x24" PC belt sander and random orbit sander to finish with 80 grit.
>
> Good luck, Sam
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I got the stuff at Golden State Flooring. they are supposed to only
>>sell wholesale but if you sweet-talk them a bit, they might sell to you.
>> Otherwise I don't know where to get it at retail. BTW, I didn't save
>>any money by getting it at GSF.
>>
>>I used Bonakemi's Dri Fast oil modified Provincial. It is nearly
>>identical in color to Minwax's Provincial, although I like the Dri
>>Fast's color a bit better.
>>
>>I rented a floor drum sander at HD, but would recommend that you find a
>>floor styled belt sander instead. Think of a beer can on it's side,
>>laying on the floor. Not much surface area of the can touches the
>>floor. That's the problem with the drum sander. As much as I tried to
>>avoid it, I got plenty of depressions in the floor from using that
>>sander. I started with about 40 grit, then 60, and 80 to smooth it. I
>>also rented an edge sander which is a real PITA to use. It will create
>>divots in the blink of an eye. Then I filled the grain and gaps with
>>trowelable wood filler (water based) from Southern Lumber. Sanded that
>>off the next day with a pad sander.
>>
>>Stained in the morning (the easiest part of the job) and put on the
>>first coat of Bonakemi Sealer about 5 hours later, using the 18"
>>applicator pad from GSF.
>>
>>The next day I put on a coat of Mega gloss, let that dry and then
>>another coat.
>>
>>Next day I rented a floor finisher with a pad as close to the grit as
>>recommended (HD didn't have EXACTLY the right grit). You are supposed
>>to use a maroon pad, but HD doesn't stock it. Scuffed up the floor with
>>that, wiped off the dust with a damp towel and then applied the final
>>coat: Mega Semi-Gloss. You gotta go real quick and easy if you use one
>>of the HD rental pads, as the grit is lower than recommended. It was the
>>Norton brand. Had I had more confidence in the quality of the sanding
>>job I would have used gloss, but it's better to somewhat hide the
>>defects with semi gloss, or Satin, which is too flat for my liking.
>>
>>I waited over a week to put anything in the room, just to be safe.
>>Bonakemi's tech support said emphatically don't cut the gloss with a
>>pad; use the proper sheen product for your top coat instead.
>>
>>Some tips:
>>
>>Make sure you have at least a 500x2 halogen light source to let you see
>>how the finish is going on. Without proper lighting you won't be able
>>to tell where the finish is, after the first coat. Don't hit your
>>popcorn ceiling like I did with the pole that the applicator pad is
>>mounted to!! Just as I was finishing up the last section of the last
>>coat, I hit that damned ceiling, bringing down a cascade of white
>>particles all over the wet finish. I got most of them out by lunging
>>for the nearest towel and dragging it through the junk. You literally
>>have SECONDS to fix any major mistakes. A minute is an eternity with
>>the waterborne finishes. The applicator does a great job of flowing the
>>product onto the floor properly. I also used a standard paint pad to
>>get the ends brushed out, as the applicator won't go all the way to the
>>wall because it is round.
>>
>>I used a bit of nylon stocking inside the pour spout to filter the
>>material. I just poured it out of the bottle onto the floor in a
>>"river" as suggested by Bonakemi. Works well that way. So with the
>>stocking in the spout, you are filtering as you pour.
>>
>>any questions, let me know.
>>
>>MSH is the pro when it comes to floors. He gave me some great advice.
>>You might Google our thread from a few months back. I forget the name
>>of it...
>>
>>The end result is pretty nice, but my 2 regrets are that I worked like a
>>slave to do the job, and with rental four machines, plus the materials,
>>I only saved a couple of hundred dollars, and the slight depressions
>>left by the drum sander. (The pad sander used to remove the excess wood
>>filler isn't going to remove the drum sanding boo boos.) I spent over
>>$500 to do one room 13 x 17.
>>
>>One other note: make sure you fill the whole floor with the wood filler.
>>If you just put it one here and there to fill obvious cracks and gaps,
>>it will look different in the areas that you spot patch, once you apply
>>the stain. Don't leave any more filler on the floor than you absolutely
>>have to, as it is time consuming to sand it off, and you don't want to
>>over sand either, or the wood pores will open again.
>>
>>
>>dave
>>
>>JP wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dave, Thanks for the suggestions. I was actually considering using
>>>MinWax stain but then started getting cold feet when reading about
>>>adhesion issues.
>>>
>>>Which DriFast stain did you use?
>>>
>>>Also, did you sand the floors yourself? If so, drum sander? vibrating
>>>plate sander (Home Depot rental)? did you use sandpaper or screens
>>>(still trying to figure out what a 'screen' is/used).
>>>
>>>Did you buff the floor between coats or at the end when cured? If so,
>>>how and with what?
>>>
>>>Where did you buy the BONA products? Local? On-line? (I'm in San Jose,
>>>CA)
>>>
>>>Many thanks,
>>>
>>>Jonas
>>>
>>>On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:31:48 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>yes, I used Mega a couple months ago on an oak floor. It works great.
>>>>be sure to use their applicator. I used the 18" one. I put down the
>>>>sealer first, followed by 2 coats of mega gloss. then I put down one
>>>>coat of semi gloss. by using gloss except for the top coat, the clarity
>>>>of the wood shows through. be sure you work FAST! the stuff works well
>>>>as long as you don't dally around. the smell is only mildly
>>>>objectionable to me. Most finishing products irritate my sinuses, so
>>>>I'd rate the Bonakemi stuff pretty good on that score.
>>>>
>>>>one last caveat: don't use Minwax stain; use the Bonakemi Dri Fast
>>>>stains instead. Bonakemi states that they have adhesion issues with
>>>>Minwhacks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>dave
>>>>
>>>>JP wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Has anyone tried BONA 'TRAFFIC' or 'MEGA' water based floor finishing
>>>>>products (listed here http://208.139.199.128/productspecs/index.asp )
>>>>>
>>>>>They make some interesting durability claims here
>>>>>http://www.bonakemi.com/contractors/twice_as_tough2.html
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm looking to redo my floors just once and be done with it.... I have
>>>>>little faith in Home Depot pushing their "Parks' oil and water based
>>>>>products. Any experiences, thoughts, ideas or considerations accepted.
>>>>>
>>>>>TIA
>>>
>>>
>
No, don't go around the room's edges first. Apply with the grain and
immediately cut in the ends. The stuff dries too fast to put it around
the edges of the entire room first.
The vibrating pad sander is VERY slow to remove wood. I used it mostly
to remove excess filler and even for that it was excruciatingly
slooooooow. I understand your reluctance to uncover all those nails,
however.
dave
JP wrote:
> Dave, Thanks for the excellent tips.
>
> I will be planning a visit to the local GSF to see the stain colors as
> well as if they have samples that I can try on my red oak floor.
>
> I'm still debating whether I'll use MEGA or TRAFFIC. TRAFFIC done
> right would seem to assure me that I'll never, ever, need to do the
> floors again, while MEGA leaves open that prospect. Maybe I'll do 4
> coats of MEGA and not fuss with the 2-part mixing of TRAFFIC. . .
>
> Given that both dry so quickly (and adding water to the mix to slow it
> down is probably not recommended), did you brush on the edges as you
> got to them or did you go all around the room edges prior doing the
> floor?
>
> Interesting on how the drum sander is very aggressive (and effective
> at making ridges in the floor !) A friend had somilar results from
> hired help and was not pleased although to be fair, once the room was
> filled with furniture, it was much less evident.
>
> My problem is that my floor boards are rectangular red oak strips that
> have 2 face nails every 6 inches or so, no tongue-and-groove with
> hidden nails. If I sand too much, then the small bit of putty hidding
> the nail head gets sanded off and the nail head exposed. Going around
> 1000 sq. feet to resink and then re-putty the holes is out of the
> question. As a result, I will be more tolerant of slow sanding
> progress with a vibrating plate sander (Home Depot rental) than risk
> taking off too much with a drum.
>
> November should an interesting month for me and the floors.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jonas
>
>
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:03:25 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I got the stuff at Golden State Flooring. they are supposed to only
>>sell wholesale but if you sweet-talk them a bit, they might sell to you.
>> Otherwise I don't know where to get it at retail. BTW, I didn't save
>>any money by getting it at GSF.
>>
>>I used Bonakemi's Dri Fast oil modified Provincial. It is nearly
>>identical in color to Minwax's Provincial, although I like the Dri
>>Fast's color a bit better.
>>
>>I rented a floor drum sander at HD, but would recommend that you find a
>>floor styled belt sander instead. Think of a beer can on it's side,
>>laying on the floor. Not much surface area of the can touches the
>>floor. That's the problem with the drum sander. As much as I tried to
>>avoid it, I got plenty of depressions in the floor from using that
>>sander. I started with about 40 grit, then 60, and 80 to smooth it. I
>>also rented an edge sander which is a real PITA to use. It will create
>>divots in the blink of an eye. Then I filled the grain and gaps with
>>trowelable wood filler (water based) from Southern Lumber. Sanded that
>>off the next day with a pad sander.
>>
>>Stained in the morning (the easiest part of the job) and put on the
>>first coat of Bonakemi Sealer about 5 hours later, using the 18"
>>applicator pad from GSF.
>>
>>The next day I put on a coat of Mega gloss, let that dry and then
>>another coat.
>>
>>Next day I rented a floor finisher with a pad as close to the grit as
>>recommended (HD didn't have EXACTLY the right grit). You are supposed
>>to use a maroon pad, but HD doesn't stock it. Scuffed up the floor with
>>that, wiped off the dust with a damp towel and then applied the final
>>coat: Mega Semi-Gloss. You gotta go real quick and easy if you use one
>>of the HD rental pads, as the grit is lower than recommended. It was the
>>Norton brand. Had I had more confidence in the quality of the sanding
>>job I would have used gloss, but it's better to somewhat hide the
>>defects with semi gloss, or Satin, which is too flat for my liking.
>>
>>I waited over a week to put anything in the room, just to be safe.
>>Bonakemi's tech support said emphatically don't cut the gloss with a
>>pad; use the proper sheen product for your top coat instead.
>>
>>Some tips:
>>
>>Make sure you have at least a 500x2 halogen light source to let you see
>>how the finish is going on. Without proper lighting you won't be able
>>to tell where the finish is, after the first coat. Don't hit your
>>popcorn ceiling like I did with the pole that the applicator pad is
>>mounted to!! Just as I was finishing up the last section of the last
>>coat, I hit that damned ceiling, bringing down a cascade of white
>>particles all over the wet finish. I got most of them out by lunging
>>for the nearest towel and dragging it through the junk. You literally
>>have SECONDS to fix any major mistakes. A minute is an eternity with
>>the waterborne finishes. The applicator does a great job of flowing the
>>product onto the floor properly. I also used a standard paint pad to
>>get the ends brushed out, as the applicator won't go all the way to the
>>wall because it is round.
>>
>>I used a bit of nylon stocking inside the pour spout to filter the
>>material. I just poured it out of the bottle onto the floor in a
>>"river" as suggested by Bonakemi. Works well that way. So with the
>>stocking in the spout, you are filtering as you pour.
>>
>>any questions, let me know.
>>
>>MSH is the pro when it comes to floors. He gave me some great advice.
>>You might Google our thread from a few months back. I forget the name
>>of it...
>>
>>The end result is pretty nice, but my 2 regrets are that I worked like a
>>slave to do the job, and with rental four machines, plus the materials,
>>I only saved a couple of hundred dollars, and the slight depressions
>>left by the drum sander. (The pad sander used to remove the excess wood
>>filler isn't going to remove the drum sanding boo boos.) I spent over
>>$500 to do one room 13 x 17.
>>
>>One other note: make sure you fill the whole floor with the wood filler.
>>If you just put it one here and there to fill obvious cracks and gaps,
>>it will look different in the areas that you spot patch, once you apply
>>the stain. Don't leave any more filler on the floor than you absolutely
>>have to, as it is time consuming to sand it off, and you don't want to
>>over sand either, or the wood pores will open again.
>>
>>
>>dave
>>
>>JP wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dave, Thanks for the suggestions. I was actually considering using
>>>MinWax stain but then started getting cold feet when reading about
>>>adhesion issues.
>>>
>>>Which DriFast stain did you use?
>>>
>>>Also, did you sand the floors yourself? If so, drum sander? vibrating
>>>plate sander (Home Depot rental)? did you use sandpaper or screens
>>>(still trying to figure out what a 'screen' is/used).
>>>
>>>Did you buff the floor between coats or at the end when cured? If so,
>>>how and with what?
>>>
>>>Where did you buy the BONA products? Local? On-line? (I'm in San Jose,
>>>CA)
>>>
>>>Many thanks,
>>>
>>>Jonas
>>>
>>>On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:31:48 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>yes, I used Mega a couple months ago on an oak floor. It works great.
>>>>be sure to use their applicator. I used the 18" one. I put down the
>>>>sealer first, followed by 2 coats of mega gloss. then I put down one
>>>>coat of semi gloss. by using gloss except for the top coat, the clarity
>>>>of the wood shows through. be sure you work FAST! the stuff works well
>>>>as long as you don't dally around. the smell is only mildly
>>>>objectionable to me. Most finishing products irritate my sinuses, so
>>>>I'd rate the Bonakemi stuff pretty good on that score.
>>>>
>>>>one last caveat: don't use Minwax stain; use the Bonakemi Dri Fast
>>>>stains instead. Bonakemi states that they have adhesion issues with
>>>>Minwhacks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>dave
>>>>
>>>>JP wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Has anyone tried BONA 'TRAFFIC' or 'MEGA' water based floor finishing
>>>>>products (listed here http://208.139.199.128/productspecs/index.asp )
>>>>>
>>>>>They make some interesting durability claims here
>>>>>http://www.bonakemi.com/contractors/twice_as_tough2.html
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm looking to redo my floors just once and be done with it.... I have
>>>>>little faith in Home Depot pushing their "Parks' oil and water based
>>>>>products. Any experiences, thoughts, ideas or considerations accepted.
>>>>>
>>>>>TIA
>>>
>>>
>
my standards are pretty high. :) I wanted it flat as a fine table top.
My floor looks better than a couple of "professionally" done neighbor's.
One neighbor made them completely refinish the floor 3 times until it
looked decent. were talking sanding, staining and all the finish coats.
THREE TIMES! so while I'm not 100% happy, everyone I've showed the
room to is impressed. So it's all a matter of degree...
dave
Sam Shank wrote:
>>The vibrating pad sander is VERY slow to remove wood. I used it mostly
>>to remove excess filler and even for that it was excruciatingly
>>slooooooow. I understand your reluctance to uncover all those nails,
>>however.
>
>
> If you're that bad of a floor sander and afraid to use the drum, disc
> it. Rent a 175rpm floor buffer, buy a red pad, and get some 80 or even
> 60 grit discs and dry disc it. MUCH less aggressive than the drum
> sander, but way better that that silly machine at home depot.
>
Dave, Thanks for the excellent tips.
I will be planning a visit to the local GSF to see the stain colors as
well as if they have samples that I can try on my red oak floor.
I'm still debating whether I'll use MEGA or TRAFFIC. TRAFFIC done
right would seem to assure me that I'll never, ever, need to do the
floors again, while MEGA leaves open that prospect. Maybe I'll do 4
coats of MEGA and not fuss with the 2-part mixing of TRAFFIC. . .
Given that both dry so quickly (and adding water to the mix to slow it
down is probably not recommended), did you brush on the edges as you
got to them or did you go all around the room edges prior doing the
floor?
Interesting on how the drum sander is very aggressive (and effective
at making ridges in the floor !) A friend had somilar results from
hired help and was not pleased although to be fair, once the room was
filled with furniture, it was much less evident.
My problem is that my floor boards are rectangular red oak strips that
have 2 face nails every 6 inches or so, no tongue-and-groove with
hidden nails. If I sand too much, then the small bit of putty hidding
the nail head gets sanded off and the nail head exposed. Going around
1000 sq. feet to resink and then re-putty the holes is out of the
question. As a result, I will be more tolerant of slow sanding
progress with a vibrating plate sander (Home Depot rental) than risk
taking off too much with a drum.
November should an interesting month for me and the floors.
Cheers,
Jonas
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:03:25 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I got the stuff at Golden State Flooring. they are supposed to only
>sell wholesale but if you sweet-talk them a bit, they might sell to you.
> Otherwise I don't know where to get it at retail. BTW, I didn't save
>any money by getting it at GSF.
>
>I used Bonakemi's Dri Fast oil modified Provincial. It is nearly
>identical in color to Minwax's Provincial, although I like the Dri
>Fast's color a bit better.
>
>I rented a floor drum sander at HD, but would recommend that you find a
>floor styled belt sander instead. Think of a beer can on it's side,
>laying on the floor. Not much surface area of the can touches the
>floor. That's the problem with the drum sander. As much as I tried to
>avoid it, I got plenty of depressions in the floor from using that
>sander. I started with about 40 grit, then 60, and 80 to smooth it. I
>also rented an edge sander which is a real PITA to use. It will create
>divots in the blink of an eye. Then I filled the grain and gaps with
>trowelable wood filler (water based) from Southern Lumber. Sanded that
>off the next day with a pad sander.
>
>Stained in the morning (the easiest part of the job) and put on the
>first coat of Bonakemi Sealer about 5 hours later, using the 18"
>applicator pad from GSF.
>
>The next day I put on a coat of Mega gloss, let that dry and then
>another coat.
>
>Next day I rented a floor finisher with a pad as close to the grit as
>recommended (HD didn't have EXACTLY the right grit). You are supposed
>to use a maroon pad, but HD doesn't stock it. Scuffed up the floor with
>that, wiped off the dust with a damp towel and then applied the final
>coat: Mega Semi-Gloss. You gotta go real quick and easy if you use one
>of the HD rental pads, as the grit is lower than recommended. It was the
>Norton brand. Had I had more confidence in the quality of the sanding
>job I would have used gloss, but it's better to somewhat hide the
>defects with semi gloss, or Satin, which is too flat for my liking.
>
>I waited over a week to put anything in the room, just to be safe.
>Bonakemi's tech support said emphatically don't cut the gloss with a
>pad; use the proper sheen product for your top coat instead.
>
>Some tips:
>
>Make sure you have at least a 500x2 halogen light source to let you see
>how the finish is going on. Without proper lighting you won't be able
>to tell where the finish is, after the first coat. Don't hit your
>popcorn ceiling like I did with the pole that the applicator pad is
>mounted to!! Just as I was finishing up the last section of the last
>coat, I hit that damned ceiling, bringing down a cascade of white
>particles all over the wet finish. I got most of them out by lunging
>for the nearest towel and dragging it through the junk. You literally
>have SECONDS to fix any major mistakes. A minute is an eternity with
>the waterborne finishes. The applicator does a great job of flowing the
>product onto the floor properly. I also used a standard paint pad to
>get the ends brushed out, as the applicator won't go all the way to the
>wall because it is round.
>
>I used a bit of nylon stocking inside the pour spout to filter the
>material. I just poured it out of the bottle onto the floor in a
>"river" as suggested by Bonakemi. Works well that way. So with the
>stocking in the spout, you are filtering as you pour.
>
>any questions, let me know.
>
>MSH is the pro when it comes to floors. He gave me some great advice.
>You might Google our thread from a few months back. I forget the name
>of it...
>
>The end result is pretty nice, but my 2 regrets are that I worked like a
>slave to do the job, and with rental four machines, plus the materials,
>I only saved a couple of hundred dollars, and the slight depressions
>left by the drum sander. (The pad sander used to remove the excess wood
>filler isn't going to remove the drum sanding boo boos.) I spent over
>$500 to do one room 13 x 17.
>
>One other note: make sure you fill the whole floor with the wood filler.
>If you just put it one here and there to fill obvious cracks and gaps,
>it will look different in the areas that you spot patch, once you apply
>the stain. Don't leave any more filler on the floor than you absolutely
>have to, as it is time consuming to sand it off, and you don't want to
>over sand either, or the wood pores will open again.
>
>
>dave
>
>JP wrote:
>
>> Dave, Thanks for the suggestions. I was actually considering using
>> MinWax stain but then started getting cold feet when reading about
>> adhesion issues.
>>
>> Which DriFast stain did you use?
>>
>> Also, did you sand the floors yourself? If so, drum sander? vibrating
>> plate sander (Home Depot rental)? did you use sandpaper or screens
>> (still trying to figure out what a 'screen' is/used).
>>
>> Did you buff the floor between coats or at the end when cured? If so,
>> how and with what?
>>
>> Where did you buy the BONA products? Local? On-line? (I'm in San Jose,
>> CA)
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Jonas
>>
>> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:31:48 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>yes, I used Mega a couple months ago on an oak floor. It works great.
>>>be sure to use their applicator. I used the 18" one. I put down the
>>>sealer first, followed by 2 coats of mega gloss. then I put down one
>>>coat of semi gloss. by using gloss except for the top coat, the clarity
>>>of the wood shows through. be sure you work FAST! the stuff works well
>>>as long as you don't dally around. the smell is only mildly
>>>objectionable to me. Most finishing products irritate my sinuses, so
>>>I'd rate the Bonakemi stuff pretty good on that score.
>>>
>>>one last caveat: don't use Minwax stain; use the Bonakemi Dri Fast
>>>stains instead. Bonakemi states that they have adhesion issues with
>>>Minwhacks.
>>>
>>>
>>>dave
>>>
>>>JP wrote:
>>>
>>>>Has anyone tried BONA 'TRAFFIC' or 'MEGA' water based floor finishing
>>>>products (listed here http://208.139.199.128/productspecs/index.asp )
>>>>
>>>>They make some interesting durability claims here
>>>>http://www.bonakemi.com/contractors/twice_as_tough2.html
>>>>
>>>>I'm looking to redo my floors just once and be done with it.... I have
>>>>little faith in Home Depot pushing their "Parks' oil and water based
>>>>products. Any experiences, thoughts, ideas or considerations accepted.
>>>>
>>>>TIA
>>
>>
I got the stuff at Golden State Flooring. they are supposed to only
sell wholesale but if you sweet-talk them a bit, they might sell to you.
Otherwise I don't know where to get it at retail. BTW, I didn't save
any money by getting it at GSF.
I used Bonakemi's Dri Fast oil modified Provincial. It is nearly
identical in color to Minwax's Provincial, although I like the Dri
Fast's color a bit better.
I rented a floor drum sander at HD, but would recommend that you find a
floor styled belt sander instead. Think of a beer can on it's side,
laying on the floor. Not much surface area of the can touches the
floor. That's the problem with the drum sander. As much as I tried to
avoid it, I got plenty of depressions in the floor from using that
sander. I started with about 40 grit, then 60, and 80 to smooth it. I
also rented an edge sander which is a real PITA to use. It will create
divots in the blink of an eye. Then I filled the grain and gaps with
trowelable wood filler (water based) from Southern Lumber. Sanded that
off the next day with a pad sander.
Stained in the morning (the easiest part of the job) and put on the
first coat of Bonakemi Sealer about 5 hours later, using the 18"
applicator pad from GSF.
The next day I put on a coat of Mega gloss, let that dry and then
another coat.
Next day I rented a floor finisher with a pad as close to the grit as
recommended (HD didn't have EXACTLY the right grit). You are supposed
to use a maroon pad, but HD doesn't stock it. Scuffed up the floor with
that, wiped off the dust with a damp towel and then applied the final
coat: Mega Semi-Gloss. You gotta go real quick and easy if you use one
of the HD rental pads, as the grit is lower than recommended. It was the
Norton brand. Had I had more confidence in the quality of the sanding
job I would have used gloss, but it's better to somewhat hide the
defects with semi gloss, or Satin, which is too flat for my liking.
I waited over a week to put anything in the room, just to be safe.
Bonakemi's tech support said emphatically don't cut the gloss with a
pad; use the proper sheen product for your top coat instead.
Some tips:
Make sure you have at least a 500x2 halogen light source to let you see
how the finish is going on. Without proper lighting you won't be able
to tell where the finish is, after the first coat. Don't hit your
popcorn ceiling like I did with the pole that the applicator pad is
mounted to!! Just as I was finishing up the last section of the last
coat, I hit that damned ceiling, bringing down a cascade of white
particles all over the wet finish. I got most of them out by lunging
for the nearest towel and dragging it through the junk. You literally
have SECONDS to fix any major mistakes. A minute is an eternity with
the waterborne finishes. The applicator does a great job of flowing the
product onto the floor properly. I also used a standard paint pad to
get the ends brushed out, as the applicator won't go all the way to the
wall because it is round.
I used a bit of nylon stocking inside the pour spout to filter the
material. I just poured it out of the bottle onto the floor in a
"river" as suggested by Bonakemi. Works well that way. So with the
stocking in the spout, you are filtering as you pour.
any questions, let me know.
MSH is the pro when it comes to floors. He gave me some great advice.
You might Google our thread from a few months back. I forget the name
of it...
The end result is pretty nice, but my 2 regrets are that I worked like a
slave to do the job, and with rental four machines, plus the materials,
I only saved a couple of hundred dollars, and the slight depressions
left by the drum sander. (The pad sander used to remove the excess wood
filler isn't going to remove the drum sanding boo boos.) I spent over
$500 to do one room 13 x 17.
One other note: make sure you fill the whole floor with the wood filler.
If you just put it one here and there to fill obvious cracks and gaps,
it will look different in the areas that you spot patch, once you apply
the stain. Don't leave any more filler on the floor than you absolutely
have to, as it is time consuming to sand it off, and you don't want to
over sand either, or the wood pores will open again.
dave
JP wrote:
> Dave, Thanks for the suggestions. I was actually considering using
> MinWax stain but then started getting cold feet when reading about
> adhesion issues.
>
> Which DriFast stain did you use?
>
> Also, did you sand the floors yourself? If so, drum sander? vibrating
> plate sander (Home Depot rental)? did you use sandpaper or screens
> (still trying to figure out what a 'screen' is/used).
>
> Did you buff the floor between coats or at the end when cured? If so,
> how and with what?
>
> Where did you buy the BONA products? Local? On-line? (I'm in San Jose,
> CA)
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Jonas
>
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:31:48 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>yes, I used Mega a couple months ago on an oak floor. It works great.
>>be sure to use their applicator. I used the 18" one. I put down the
>>sealer first, followed by 2 coats of mega gloss. then I put down one
>>coat of semi gloss. by using gloss except for the top coat, the clarity
>>of the wood shows through. be sure you work FAST! the stuff works well
>>as long as you don't dally around. the smell is only mildly
>>objectionable to me. Most finishing products irritate my sinuses, so
>>I'd rate the Bonakemi stuff pretty good on that score.
>>
>>one last caveat: don't use Minwax stain; use the Bonakemi Dri Fast
>>stains instead. Bonakemi states that they have adhesion issues with
>>Minwhacks.
>>
>>
>>dave
>>
>>JP wrote:
>>
>>>Has anyone tried BONA 'TRAFFIC' or 'MEGA' water based floor finishing
>>>products (listed here http://208.139.199.128/productspecs/index.asp )
>>>
>>>They make some interesting durability claims here
>>>http://www.bonakemi.com/contractors/twice_as_tough2.html
>>>
>>>I'm looking to redo my floors just once and be done with it.... I have
>>>little faith in Home Depot pushing their "Parks' oil and water based
>>>products. Any experiences, thoughts, ideas or considerations accepted.
>>>
>>>TIA
>
>
yes, the square pad sander was a major PITA. not aggressive enough. I
spent hours getting the filler off.
I used only one edge sanding disc. I don't think it was set up right,
but I couldn't loosen any of the roller feet so I gave up and used it
the way it was. There has to be a better way...
Your way sounds much faster and more effective. IF I decide to do the
floor of my study, I'll remember your methods. thanks, Sam.
dave
Sam Shank wrote:
>>Sam, I've got a feeling that the edger that I rented at HD was less than
>>ideal, because it had the sanding surface at a slight angle to the
>>floor, so that only the front edge would cut. I tried to adjust the
>>feet and couldn't move them. Should the disk have been parallel to the
>>floor?
>
>
> When mine was in the shop one time getting new bearings and gears, I had
> to rent one from HD. It was a nice machine, and it worked just as you
> mentioned. If you run it FLAT (this is hard work we're talking about
> here) it works fine. It's possible that with your lack of experience it
> just wasn't as you had imagined. You go through LOTS and LOTS of discs.
> You might have to change discs every few feet (like 2 feet) on gummy
> finishes.
>
>
>>I was too chicken to use the drum sander AFTER the trowelable filler,
>>but looking back I can see it would have been a hell of a lot quicker
>>than the pad sander! :)
>
>
> After the wood filler, I do an 80 grit sand with the drum sander, and
> then use a slow speed buffer with a red pad and a screen (100, 80, 120,
> whatever I have lots of) to close the grain before sealing.
>
> Did you use one of those silly looking "random orbit" type square
> machines I've seen? I laugh every time I see one of those. I couldn't
> imagine those being effective. I've never used one, so maybe I'm the
> silly one. But, they don't look very effective. And, I could see how it
> would be a lot of work with that thing NOT drum sanding after the filler.
>
> >The end result is pretty nice, but my 2 regrets are that I worked like a
> >slave to do the job, and with rental four machines, plus the materials,
> >I only saved a couple of hundred dollars, and the slight depressions
> >left by the drum sander. (The pad sander used to remove the excess wood
> >filler isn't going to remove the drum sanding boo boos.) I spent over
> >$500 to do one room 13 x 17.
>
> My house is 18 months old. About 6 months ago, I had a problem with
> my freezer dumping enough water to warp some of the floor.
>
> The damage wasn't bad enough to replace the floor, but I need to have it
> sanded and refinished.
>
> The quote from the folks who installed the floor was $3 per sq foot, a
> total of $1500 for 500 sq feet. This includes sanding, stain, and two
> coats of waterborne poly. I'm going to wait until next summer so I can
> live in my RV for a few days while the work is done.
That's about what I charge. Stain is more though (it's a PITA).
--
please remove @com.com and change att and dott to @ and .
Thanks, Sam (trying to minimize spam)
> Brian, I don't think that 2 coats of waterborne is sufficient. I used 1
> coat of sealer, 2 coats of gloss, and one coat of semi gloss. That is
> pretty much the bare minimum. that stuff is THIN. I was told before I
> started the job to do that many coats, and judging from the results, I
> would even consider one more coat to not be a bad, although perhaps
> unnecessary, idea. The pro's told me 2 coats is not enough. When you
> get a competitive quote, they MAY be cutting corners to give you a good
> price...ask around.
2 coats of finish is fine. I put 3 on my own. I put down 2 coats of seal
before the finish though. So it's 4 coats total. (5 on my own floors.)
I'd charge a little extra if they wanted a 5th coat (2 coats seal, 3
coats finish).
We only put 2 coats of on newly sanded gym floors. If it can stand up to
100s of kids almost every day all day for 1 year, it can take your
floors for MANY years.
Once you get to that part though, it's easy easy easy. All the hard work
is behind you.
--
please remove @com.com and change att and dott to @ and .
Thanks, Sam (trying to minimize spam)
> Sam, I've got a feeling that the edger that I rented at HD was less than
> ideal, because it had the sanding surface at a slight angle to the
> floor, so that only the front edge would cut. I tried to adjust the
> feet and couldn't move them. Should the disk have been parallel to the
> floor?
When mine was in the shop one time getting new bearings and gears, I had
to rent one from HD. It was a nice machine, and it worked just as you
mentioned. If you run it FLAT (this is hard work we're talking about
here) it works fine. It's possible that with your lack of experience it
just wasn't as you had imagined. You go through LOTS and LOTS of discs.
You might have to change discs every few feet (like 2 feet) on gummy
finishes.
> I was too chicken to use the drum sander AFTER the trowelable filler,
> but looking back I can see it would have been a hell of a lot quicker
> than the pad sander! :)
After the wood filler, I do an 80 grit sand with the drum sander, and
then use a slow speed buffer with a red pad and a screen (100, 80, 120,
whatever I have lots of) to close the grain before sealing.
Did you use one of those silly looking "random orbit" type square
machines I've seen? I laugh every time I see one of those. I couldn't
imagine those being effective. I've never used one, so maybe I'm the
silly one. But, they don't look very effective. And, I could see how it
would be a lot of work with that thing NOT drum sanding after the filler.
--
please remove @com.com and change att and dott to @ and .
Thanks, Sam (trying to minimize spam)
> The vibrating pad sander is VERY slow to remove wood. I used it mostly
> to remove excess filler and even for that it was excruciatingly
> slooooooow. I understand your reluctance to uncover all those nails,
> however.
If you're that bad of a floor sander and afraid to use the drum, disc
it. Rent a 175rpm floor buffer, buy a red pad, and get some 80 or even
60 grit discs and dry disc it. MUCH less aggressive than the drum
sander, but way better that that silly machine at home depot.
--
please remove @com.com and change att and dott to @ and .
Thanks, Sam (trying to minimize spam)
Excellent instructions, but some observations from a semi-pro (I do it
on the side...)
MEGA Satin is my favorite. It's almost impossible to screw up. It's so
thin, that you can prcatically pour it on and walk away. Don't let the
'thin' fool you into thinking it's a bad product. It's an excellent
product.
You don't need to buff between coats if you apply them less than like 40
hours apart. It says to wait 2 hours, but I typicaly go 1 hour without a
problem. 2 hours is ideal, if you can though.
If you do need to buff between coats, yes, maroon pads are what you want.
Trowelable wood filler is a great idea before your last sand with the
drum sander. It will show you where you screwed up and left gouges with
your sanding. Go easy and feather in!
Run your edger FLAT. Never never lift it on edge unless you want some
nice gouges. I only do the rough sanding with the edger, then use my
4x24" PC belt sander and random orbit sander to finish with 80 grit.
Good luck, Sam
In article <[email protected]>,
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> I got the stuff at Golden State Flooring. they are supposed to only
> sell wholesale but if you sweet-talk them a bit, they might sell to you.
> Otherwise I don't know where to get it at retail. BTW, I didn't save
> any money by getting it at GSF.
>
> I used Bonakemi's Dri Fast oil modified Provincial. It is nearly
> identical in color to Minwax's Provincial, although I like the Dri
> Fast's color a bit better.
>
> I rented a floor drum sander at HD, but would recommend that you find a
> floor styled belt sander instead. Think of a beer can on it's side,
> laying on the floor. Not much surface area of the can touches the
> floor. That's the problem with the drum sander. As much as I tried to
> avoid it, I got plenty of depressions in the floor from using that
> sander. I started with about 40 grit, then 60, and 80 to smooth it. I
> also rented an edge sander which is a real PITA to use. It will create
> divots in the blink of an eye. Then I filled the grain and gaps with
> trowelable wood filler (water based) from Southern Lumber. Sanded that
> off the next day with a pad sander.
>
> Stained in the morning (the easiest part of the job) and put on the
> first coat of Bonakemi Sealer about 5 hours later, using the 18"
> applicator pad from GSF.
>
> The next day I put on a coat of Mega gloss, let that dry and then
> another coat.
>
> Next day I rented a floor finisher with a pad as close to the grit as
> recommended (HD didn't have EXACTLY the right grit). You are supposed
> to use a maroon pad, but HD doesn't stock it. Scuffed up the floor with
> that, wiped off the dust with a damp towel and then applied the final
> coat: Mega Semi-Gloss. You gotta go real quick and easy if you use one
> of the HD rental pads, as the grit is lower than recommended. It was the
> Norton brand. Had I had more confidence in the quality of the sanding
> job I would have used gloss, but it's better to somewhat hide the
> defects with semi gloss, or Satin, which is too flat for my liking.
>
> I waited over a week to put anything in the room, just to be safe.
> Bonakemi's tech support said emphatically don't cut the gloss with a
> pad; use the proper sheen product for your top coat instead.
>
> Some tips:
>
> Make sure you have at least a 500x2 halogen light source to let you see
> how the finish is going on. Without proper lighting you won't be able
> to tell where the finish is, after the first coat. Don't hit your
> popcorn ceiling like I did with the pole that the applicator pad is
> mounted to!! Just as I was finishing up the last section of the last
> coat, I hit that damned ceiling, bringing down a cascade of white
> particles all over the wet finish. I got most of them out by lunging
> for the nearest towel and dragging it through the junk. You literally
> have SECONDS to fix any major mistakes. A minute is an eternity with
> the waterborne finishes. The applicator does a great job of flowing the
> product onto the floor properly. I also used a standard paint pad to
> get the ends brushed out, as the applicator won't go all the way to the
> wall because it is round.
>
> I used a bit of nylon stocking inside the pour spout to filter the
> material. I just poured it out of the bottle onto the floor in a
> "river" as suggested by Bonakemi. Works well that way. So with the
> stocking in the spout, you are filtering as you pour.
>
> any questions, let me know.
>
> MSH is the pro when it comes to floors. He gave me some great advice.
> You might Google our thread from a few months back. I forget the name
> of it...
>
> The end result is pretty nice, but my 2 regrets are that I worked like a
> slave to do the job, and with rental four machines, plus the materials,
> I only saved a couple of hundred dollars, and the slight depressions
> left by the drum sander. (The pad sander used to remove the excess wood
> filler isn't going to remove the drum sanding boo boos.) I spent over
> $500 to do one room 13 x 17.
>
> One other note: make sure you fill the whole floor with the wood filler.
> If you just put it one here and there to fill obvious cracks and gaps,
> it will look different in the areas that you spot patch, once you apply
> the stain. Don't leave any more filler on the floor than you absolutely
> have to, as it is time consuming to sand it off, and you don't want to
> over sand either, or the wood pores will open again.
>
>
> dave
>
> JP wrote:
>
> > Dave, Thanks for the suggestions. I was actually considering using
> > MinWax stain but then started getting cold feet when reading about
> > adhesion issues.
> >
> > Which DriFast stain did you use?
> >
> > Also, did you sand the floors yourself? If so, drum sander? vibrating
> > plate sander (Home Depot rental)? did you use sandpaper or screens
> > (still trying to figure out what a 'screen' is/used).
> >
> > Did you buff the floor between coats or at the end when cured? If so,
> > how and with what?
> >
> > Where did you buy the BONA products? Local? On-line? (I'm in San Jose,
> > CA)
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Jonas
> >
> > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:31:48 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>yes, I used Mega a couple months ago on an oak floor. It works great.
> >>be sure to use their applicator. I used the 18" one. I put down the
> >>sealer first, followed by 2 coats of mega gloss. then I put down one
> >>coat of semi gloss. by using gloss except for the top coat, the clarity
> >>of the wood shows through. be sure you work FAST! the stuff works well
> >>as long as you don't dally around. the smell is only mildly
> >>objectionable to me. Most finishing products irritate my sinuses, so
> >>I'd rate the Bonakemi stuff pretty good on that score.
> >>
> >>one last caveat: don't use Minwax stain; use the Bonakemi Dri Fast
> >>stains instead. Bonakemi states that they have adhesion issues with
> >>Minwhacks.
> >>
> >>
> >>dave
> >>
> >>JP wrote:
> >>
> >>>Has anyone tried BONA 'TRAFFIC' or 'MEGA' water based floor finishing
> >>>products (listed here http://208.139.199.128/productspecs/index.asp )
> >>>
> >>>They make some interesting durability claims here
> >>>http://www.bonakemi.com/contractors/twice_as_tough2.html
> >>>
> >>>I'm looking to redo my floors just once and be done with it.... I have
> >>>little faith in Home Depot pushing their "Parks' oil and water based
> >>>products. Any experiences, thoughts, ideas or considerations accepted.
> >>>
> >>>TIA
> >
> >
>
--
please remove @com.com and change att and dott to @ and .
Thanks, Sam (trying to minimize spam)
Brian, I don't think that 2 coats of waterborne is sufficient. I used 1
coat of sealer, 2 coats of gloss, and one coat of semi gloss. That is
pretty much the bare minimum. that stuff is THIN. I was told before I
started the job to do that many coats, and judging from the results, I
would even consider one more coat to not be a bad, although perhaps
unnecessary, idea. The pro's told me 2 coats is not enough. When you
get a competitive quote, they MAY be cutting corners to give you a good
price...ask around.
dave
Brian Elfert wrote:
> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>The end result is pretty nice, but my 2 regrets are that I worked like a
>>slave to do the job, and with rental four machines, plus the materials,
>>I only saved a couple of hundred dollars, and the slight depressions
>>left by the drum sander. (The pad sander used to remove the excess wood
>>filler isn't going to remove the drum sanding boo boos.) I spent over
>>$500 to do one room 13 x 17.
>
>
> My house is 18 months old. About 6 months ago, I had a problem with
> my freezer dumping enough water to warp some of the floor.
>
> The damage wasn't bad enough to replace the floor, but I need to have it
> sanded and refinished.
>
> The quote from the folks who installed the floor was $3 per sq foot, a
> total of $1500 for 500 sq feet. This includes sanding, stain, and two
> coats of waterborne poly. I'm going to wait until next summer so I can
> live in my RV for a few days while the work is done.
>
> Brian Elfert