Had the first adult ed class tonight. My project is a little 36" W x 30" H
x 10.5" D bookcase (one shelf). The class is in one of the local high
schools and some of the equipment is suspect (and I'm not sure on the
instructor yet). So I have a few a questions after tonight.
1) Neither of the jointers work. One actually works, but the fence can't be
squared. So it won't work well for jointing my 3.5" boards to glue together
for the pieces. So what to do? Attempt hand planing, buy my own bench
jointer, did I read somewhere that you can use a router somehow to joint
boards? I did buy s4s wood (be easy on me, it's my first project). So the
instructor thinks I might be able to get away without jointing the boards,
since they theoretically already went through a jointer to be s4s and I'm
only worried about 36" max length (less opportunity for gaps). Also, I can
do all of the combinations from the same board (not having to use one piece
from one board and two pieces from another board).
Comments/suggestions?
2) The instructor recommended doweling the 3.5" boards together, to help
keep the boards in line with one another. Do I need to do this or would I
be okay with just butt edge?
3) The project plans call for screws into the top and on the upper and lower
sides. If I used putty or a plug, will this stand out as awful looking in
the finished product? Or should I look into replacing the screws with some
other types of joinery (rabbets, mortise and tenon, etc)?
Thanks
I have heard, not tried this when a Jointer is not perfectly square. You
joint one edge, finished side out, the next, finished side in. The slight
angle will be reversed on the adjoining board and everything lines up. From
David Marks (?) on TV I think. The guy with the HUGE jointer.
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06...
> Had the first adult ed class tonight. My project is a little 36" W x 30"
H
> x 10.5" D bookcase (one shelf). The class is in one of the local high
> schools and some of the equipment is suspect (and I'm not sure on the
> instructor yet). So I have a few a questions after tonight.
>
> 1) Neither of the jointers work. One actually works, but the fence can't
be
> squared. So it won't work well for jointing my 3.5" boards to glue
together
> for the pieces. So what to do? Attempt hand planing, buy my own bench
> jointer, did I read somewhere that you can use a router somehow to joint
> boards? I did buy s4s wood (be easy on me, it's my first project). So
the
> instructor thinks I might be able to get away without jointing the boards,
> since they theoretically already went through a jointer to be s4s and I'm
> only worried about 36" max length (less opportunity for gaps). Also, I
can
> do all of the combinations from the same board (not having to use one
piece
> from one board and two pieces from another board).
>
> Comments/suggestions?
>
> 2) The instructor recommended doweling the 3.5" boards together, to help
> keep the boards in line with one another. Do I need to do this or would I
> be okay with just butt edge?
>
> 3) The project plans call for screws into the top and on the upper and
lower
> sides. If I used putty or a plug, will this stand out as awful looking in
> the finished product? Or should I look into replacing the screws with
some
> other types of joinery (rabbets, mortise and tenon, etc)?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06>...
> Had the first adult ed class tonight. My project is a little 36" W x 30" H
> x 10.5" D bookcase (one shelf). The class is in one of the local high
> schools and some of the equipment is suspect (and I'm not sure on the
> instructor yet). So I have a few a questions after tonight.
>
> 1) Neither of the jointers work. One actually works, but the fence can't be
> squared. So it won't work well for jointing my 3.5" boards to glue together
> for the pieces. So what to do? Attempt hand planing, buy my own bench
> jointer, did I read somewhere that you can use a router somehow to joint
> boards? I did buy s4s wood (be easy on me, it's my first project). So the
> instructor thinks I might be able to get away without jointing the boards,
> since they theoretically already went through a jointer to be s4s and I'm
> only worried about 36" max length (less opportunity for gaps). Also, I can
> do all of the combinations from the same board (not having to use one piece
> from one board and two pieces from another board).
>
> Comments/suggestions?
>
> 2) The instructor recommended doweling the 3.5" boards together, to help
> keep the boards in line with one another. Do I need to do this or would I
> be okay with just butt edge?
>
> 3) The project plans call for screws into the top and on the upper and lower
> sides. If I used putty or a plug, will this stand out as awful looking in
> the finished product? Or should I look into replacing the screws with some
> other types of joinery (rabbets, mortise and tenon, etc)?
>
> Thanks
A slick trick if you are not aginst use of metal - drive some small
nails half way into the edge of one board, every 6-10 inches or so,
then cut the heads off. When you bring the boards together with
clamps, there should be no slippage.
I second the plug cutting technique. If you are careful to match the
grain, they're hard to detect. A good plug cutter cuts a slightly
tapered plug, ensuring a tight fit. A dowel would leave end grain
showing, even using the same type wood, this will be darker and will
finish/stain darker yet. Dowels are best used where the whole dowel is
hidden.
"patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06:
>
> It's a beginning project. Use the screws. But see if you can find a plug
> cutter, such as the Veritas Snug Plug cutter. I bought mine at a local
> Woodcraft. My good local hardware store has them too, but yours may not.
>
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32320&category=1,180,42288&ccur
> rency=2&SID= (watch the wrap)
>
So if I want to go the route of screws, cutting out some space with a
forstner or brad point, the best option would be to cut my own plugs/dowels
from the same wood? I never even thought of making my own plugs - figured
you had to buy them.
Lots to still learn...
Brikp wrote:
> I have heard, not tried this when a Jointer is not perfectly square. You
> joint one edge, finished side out, the next, finished side in. The slight
> angle will be reversed on the adjoining board and everything lines up. From
> David Marks (?) on TV I think. The guy with the HUGE jointer.
>
>
Good suggestion! This technique should work well and is similar to the
technique of putting two boards together and using a hand plane to joint
the edge. It is not too critical that the edges be 90 degrees to the
face but the angles of the two edges should be complementary. The
jointer will give you a straighter edge than a block plane will (unless
the jointer is really screwed up). The problem with the edges being
slightly off angle is that glue is pretty slippery when first applied
and the two boards will tend to slide in opposite directions when you
clamp them. Dowels or biscuits will help prevent this.
TWS
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06...
> jointer, did I read somewhere that you can use a router somehow to joint
> boards?
You can add a shim to one side of a router fence to joint boards.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=41801&category=1,43053,43885,42837&abspage=1&ccurrency=1&SID=
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06...
>
> I did buy s4s wood (be easy on me, it's my first project). So the
> instructor thinks I might be able to get away without jointing the boards,
He may be right. How do they fit togheter? I've done it often. Since they
are S4S, you can run it though the tablsaw with a good blade to take out
some imperfections. Questions is, do they have a good blade at the school?
>
> 2) The instructor recommended doweling the 3.5" boards together, to help
> keep the boards in line with one another. Do I need to do this or would I
> be okay with just butt edge?
Depends. If I used dowels, they would be in worse shape than using nothing.
I've never been able to get dowels to line up well. Biscuits work much
better, IMO.
>
> 3) The project plans call for screws into the top and on the upper and
> lower
> sides. If I used putty or a plug, will this stand out as awful looking in
> the finished product? Or should I look into replacing the screws with
> some
> other types of joinery (rabbets, mortise and tenon, etc)?
Save the other joinery for step two, your next project. I use a 3/8"
Forstner or brad point bit to make a recess. Then I drill the pilot hole
for the screws. After the final assembly, I'll use plugs or dowels in the
3/8" holes, trim, sand, and they look very nice. Be sure to space the holes
well so it looks like pro job. Measure, don't guess at the spacing. They
don't have to be equal, they have to be consistent. Measure in say, 1" from
each side for the first two, then another 2" for the second two, adjust so
it looks good. Both ends should be the same.
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06:
> Had the first adult ed class tonight.
<snip>
> 1) Neither of the jointers work.
<snip>
You can live without a jointer. If you need to trim up the fit on your
glueup, a handplane should do it. A larger one, not a block plane,
preferably.
>
> Comments/suggestions?
>
> 2) The instructor recommended doweling the 3.5" boards together, to
> help keep the boards in line with one another. Do I need to do this
> or would I be okay with just butt edge?
Practice doweling another time. Butt edge gluing will more than suffice.
>
> 3) The project plans call for screws into the top and on the upper and
> lower sides. If I used putty or a plug, will this stand out as awful
> looking in the finished product?
It's a beginning project. Use the screws. But see if you can find a plug
cutter, such as the Veritas Snug Plug cutter. I bought mine at a local
Woodcraft. My good local hardware store has them too, but yours may not.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32320&category=1,180,42288&ccur
rency=2&SID= (watch the wrap)
You want to get really fancy, get the trim head screws...
The thing to remember here, Corey, is that it's a peanut butter sandwhich,
not dinner at a 4 star hotel. That may come later.
Enjoy!
Patriarch
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:GxE2d.18$C8.0@trnddc05:
> So if I want to go the route of screws, cutting out some space with a
> forstner or brad point, the best option would be to cut my own
> plugs/dowels from the same wood? I never even thought of making my
> own plugs - figured you had to buy them.
>
> Lots to still learn...
>
Cut them from some of your scrap, align the grain, be careful with the
glue, and the plugs almost disappear.
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06:
> 1) Neither of the jointers work. One actually works, but the fence
> can't be squared. So it won't work well for jointing my 3.5" boards
> to glue together for the pieces. So what to do? Attempt hand
> planing, buy my own bench jointer, did I read somewhere that you can
> use a router somehow to joint boards?
You'll have to try the boards to find out if you need to do anything.
If you have no gaps when they're clamped up with moderate pressure,
then you're in luck. If there's a gap, then you'll have to do something
about it - either hand plane them, or use the router (hold the two
boards seperated by slightly less than the router bit diameter, and
run the router between them).
> 2) The instructor recommended doweling the 3.5" boards together, to
> help keep the boards in line with one another. Do I need to do this
> or would I be okay with just butt edge?
Dowels help if one of the boards is slightly bowed and you're trying
to persuade it into line with the other, or if the edge of the board
isn't square (in which case one board will slip up and the other down
as the clamps are tightened). If your boards are square & straight,
you don't need dowels.
> 3) The project plans call for screws into the top and on the upper and
> lower sides. If I used putty or a plug, will this stand out as awful
> looking in the finished product? Or should I look into replacing the
> screws with some other types of joinery (rabbets, mortise and tenon,
> etc)?
Putty will look awful. If you find the screws offensive, you could
set them in a counterbore & plug them (common in nautical work), or
you could replace them with dowels, or, since you have a router, use
dadoes & glue to join everything. Bear in mind too that you could
use brass screws, a symmetric row of neatly countersunk brass screw
heads can be quite attractive (fasten everything with steel screws
first, they'll cut threads into the wood which will allow you to
drive the brass screws without risk of breaking them).
John
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:hlE2d.17$C8.9@trnddc05:
> The problem with the jointer is that the fence is broken and someone
> tried rigging it with some C-clamps to get is close. So the fence is
> square at one end, and a little over 90 degrees at the other (tilts
> away from the bed/blades). It is not the same degree off the entire
> length.
>
> The instructor says the blades look good though. And being off by a
> small amount is probably fine for the high school kids building
> houses.
>
> I think I understand the concept of what you describe. But would this
> still work with the fence being off as I descrbed it?
I think not, because you'd likely get a varying angle along the
board.
If it's just the fence that's a problem, tho, and all you want to
do is edge joint (no face jointing), just find something that's
square and clamp it to the bed to use as a fence (with a little
notch to clear the cutterhead).
John
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:hlE2d.17$C8.9@trnddc05...
> The problem with the jointer is that the fence is broken and someone tried
> rigging it with some C-clamps to get is close. So the fence is square at
> one end, and a little over 90 degrees at the other (tilts away from the
> bed/blades). It is not the same degree off the entire length.
>
> The instructor says the blades look good though. And being off by a small
> amount is probably fine for the high school kids building houses.
>
> I think I understand the concept of what you describe. But would this
still
> work with the fence being off as I descrbed it?
no. it has to be off the same amount the length of the fence for it to work.
> "Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I have heard, not tried this when a Jointer is not perfectly square. You
> > joint one edge, finished side out, the next, finished side in. The
slight
> > angle will be reversed on the adjoining board and everything lines up.
> From
> > David Marks (?) on TV I think. The guy with the HUGE jointer.
> >
> >
> > "Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06...
> > > Had the first adult ed class tonight. My project is a little 36" W x
> 30"
> > H
> > > x 10.5" D bookcase (one shelf). The class is in one of the local high
> > > schools and some of the equipment is suspect (and I'm not sure on the
> > > instructor yet). So I have a few a questions after tonight.
> > >
> > > 1) Neither of the jointers work. One actually works, but the fence
> can't
> > be
> > > squared. So it won't work well for jointing my 3.5" boards to glue
> > together
> > > for the pieces. So what to do? Attempt hand planing, buy my own
bench
> > > jointer, did I read somewhere that you can use a router somehow to
joint
> > > boards? I did buy s4s wood (be easy on me, it's my first project).
So
> > the
> > > instructor thinks I might be able to get away without jointing the
> boards,
> > > since they theoretically already went through a jointer to be s4s and
> I'm
> > > only worried about 36" max length (less opportunity for gaps). Also,
I
> > can
> > > do all of the combinations from the same board (not having to use one
> > piece
> > > from one board and two pieces from another board).
> > >
> > > Comments/suggestions?
> > >
> > > 2) The instructor recommended doweling the 3.5" boards together, to
help
> > > keep the boards in line with one another. Do I need to do this or
would
> I
> > > be okay with just butt edge?
> > >
> > > 3) The project plans call for screws into the top and on the upper and
> > lower
> > > sides. If I used putty or a plug, will this stand out as awful
looking
> in
> > > the finished product? Or should I look into replacing the screws with
> > some
> > > other types of joinery (rabbets, mortise and tenon, etc)?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:22:01 GMT, "Corey" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06...
>>I did buy s4s wood (be easy on me, it's my first project). So the
>> instructor thinks I might be able to get away without jointing the boards,
>> since they theoretically already went through a jointer to be s4s and I'm
>> only worried about 36" max length (less opportunity for gaps). Also, I
>can
>> do all of the combinations from the same board (not having to use one
>piece
>> from one board and two pieces from another board).
>
>
>I pulled some of the boards together with a little clamp pressure (no glue
>yet) and I can see a sliver of daylight in a couple of cracks. I actually
>have to hold the boards at a certain angle with the backlight to see the
>slivers - it doesn't appear to be visible to the naked eye.
>
>Does this sound good enough or should I continue searching for a jointer
>solution?
glue will take care of those barely there gaps.
>
>One other question while I'm thinking about it - how far apart should clamps
>be on a 30" - 40" glue up?
however many are needed to pull it tight. it depends a lot on how
straight the boards are, how good the jointery is, how thick the glue
is, how strong the clamps are......
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> He may be right. How do they fit togheter? I've done it often. Since
they
> are S4S, you can run it though the tablsaw with a good blade to take out
> some imperfections. Questions is, do they have a good blade at the school?
Not sure how good the blade is and how square the fence is. I'm not that
skilled yet.
If I run the boards through the TS to help square the edges, I'll be
trimming some depth off the case. And I'm already at 10'5" deep. I don't
think I won't to go any narrower than that.
> Depends. If I used dowels, they would be in worse shape than using
nothing.
> I've never been able to get dowels to line up well. Biscuits work much
> better, IMO.
No biscuit jointer available. I checked.
The problem with the jointer is that the fence is broken and someone tried
rigging it with some C-clamps to get is close. So the fence is square at
one end, and a little over 90 degrees at the other (tilts away from the
bed/blades). It is not the same degree off the entire length.
The instructor says the blades look good though. And being off by a small
amount is probably fine for the high school kids building houses.
I think I understand the concept of what you describe. But would this still
work with the fence being off as I descrbed it?
"Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have heard, not tried this when a Jointer is not perfectly square. You
> joint one edge, finished side out, the next, finished side in. The slight
> angle will be reversed on the adjoining board and everything lines up.
From
> David Marks (?) on TV I think. The guy with the HUGE jointer.
>
>
> "Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06...
> > Had the first adult ed class tonight. My project is a little 36" W x
30"
> H
> > x 10.5" D bookcase (one shelf). The class is in one of the local high
> > schools and some of the equipment is suspect (and I'm not sure on the
> > instructor yet). So I have a few a questions after tonight.
> >
> > 1) Neither of the jointers work. One actually works, but the fence
can't
> be
> > squared. So it won't work well for jointing my 3.5" boards to glue
> together
> > for the pieces. So what to do? Attempt hand planing, buy my own bench
> > jointer, did I read somewhere that you can use a router somehow to joint
> > boards? I did buy s4s wood (be easy on me, it's my first project). So
> the
> > instructor thinks I might be able to get away without jointing the
boards,
> > since they theoretically already went through a jointer to be s4s and
I'm
> > only worried about 36" max length (less opportunity for gaps). Also, I
> can
> > do all of the combinations from the same board (not having to use one
> piece
> > from one board and two pieces from another board).
> >
> > Comments/suggestions?
> >
> > 2) The instructor recommended doweling the 3.5" boards together, to help
> > keep the boards in line with one another. Do I need to do this or would
I
> > be okay with just butt edge?
> >
> > 3) The project plans call for screws into the top and on the upper and
> lower
> > sides. If I used putty or a plug, will this stand out as awful looking
in
> > the finished product? Or should I look into replacing the screws with
> some
> > other types of joinery (rabbets, mortise and tenon, etc)?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
>
>
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Will it matter if both edges aren't flat - to where the edge I have up
> against the fence isn't flat? Will this TS cut still cut it pretty flat?
>
> Thanks
Considering how close it is already, you should be OK. I've done that many
times as I don't have a jointer. So far, it has worked every time. If you
are talking 1/4" bows, that would be a whole other set of circumstances.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I'd run the board down the fence of the tablesaw and just shave the edge
by
> half the blade width and try it again.
>
> I'd use four clamps. You can never have enough clamps.
>
>
Will it matter if both edges aren't flat - to where the edge I have up
against the fence isn't flat? Will this TS cut still cut it pretty flat?
Thanks
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06...
>I did buy s4s wood (be easy on me, it's my first project). So the
> instructor thinks I might be able to get away without jointing the boards,
> since they theoretically already went through a jointer to be s4s and I'm
> only worried about 36" max length (less opportunity for gaps). Also, I
can
> do all of the combinations from the same board (not having to use one
piece
> from one board and two pieces from another board).
I pulled some of the boards together with a little clamp pressure (no glue
yet) and I can see a sliver of daylight in a couple of cracks. I actually
have to hold the boards at a certain angle with the backlight to see the
slivers - it doesn't appear to be visible to the naked eye.
Does this sound good enough or should I continue searching for a jointer
solution?
One other question while I'm thinking about it - how far apart should clamps
be on a 30" - 40" glue up?
Thanks
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:uQr2d.4662$g9.1197@trnddc06...
>I did buy s4s wood (be easy on me, it's my first project). So the
> instructor thinks I might be able to get away without jointing the boards,
> since they theoretically already went through a jointer to be s4s and I'm
> only worried about 36" max length (less opportunity for gaps). Also, I
can
> do all of the combinations from the same board (not having to use one
piece
> from one board and two pieces from another board).
I pulled some of the boards together with a little clamp pressure (no glue
yet) and I can see a sliver of daylight in a couple of cracks. I actually
have to hold the boards at a certain angle with the backlight to see the
slivers - it doesn't appear to be visible to the naked eye.
Does this sound good enough or should I continue searching for a jointer
solution?
One other question while I'm thinking about it - how far apart should clamps
be on a 30" - 40" glue up?
Thanks
Scary if the instructor cannot set up the joiner. That said my college
woodshop instructor did not have the joiners set up correctly. At the
time I did not know how to set one up correctly. I may still not but
the last joner I set up worked well. He also would not anyone use a
power sander. He saw too many projects butchered by sanders. I sanded
my stuff in the dorm room. No stain either.
Look for Miller dowels. They are a stepped dowel system that looks
good in the wood show demos. If you insist on visible fastners then
dowels that match the grain will look better than screws with some
putty covering them.
Place the board on a flat table and butt the edges up. If you see no
gaps anywhere then you could glue them up. I happen to like dowels or
biscuits for edge glueing.
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Had the first adult ed class tonight. My project is a little 36" W x 30" H
>x 10.5" D bookcase (one shelf). The class is in one of the local high
>schools and some of the equipment is suspect (and I'm not sure on the
>instructor yet). So I have a few a questions after tonight.
>
>1) Neither of the jointers work. One actually works, but the fence can't be
>squared. So it won't work well for jointing my 3.5" boards to glue together
>for the pieces. So what to do? Attempt hand planing, buy my own bench
>jointer, did I read somewhere that you can use a router somehow to joint
>boards? I did buy s4s wood (be easy on me, it's my first project). So the
>instructor thinks I might be able to get away without jointing the boards,
>since they theoretically already went through a jointer to be s4s and I'm
>only worried about 36" max length (less opportunity for gaps). Also, I can
>do all of the combinations from the same board (not having to use one piece
>from one board and two pieces from another board).
>
>Comments/suggestions?
>
>2) The instructor recommended doweling the 3.5" boards together, to help
>keep the boards in line with one another. Do I need to do this or would I
>be okay with just butt edge?
>
>3) The project plans call for screws into the top and on the upper and lower
>sides. If I used putty or a plug, will this stand out as awful looking in
>the finished product? Or should I look into replacing the screws with some
>other types of joinery (rabbets, mortise and tenon, etc)?
>
>Thanks
>
>
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I pulled some of the boards together with a little clamp pressure (no glue
> yet) and I can see a sliver of daylight in a couple of cracks. I actually
> have to hold the boards at a certain angle with the backlight to see the
> slivers - it doesn't appear to be visible to the naked eye.
>
> Does this sound good enough or should I continue searching for a jointer
> solution?
>
> One other question while I'm thinking about it - how far apart should
> clamps
> be on a 30" - 40" glue up?
>
> Thanks
I'd run the board down the fence of the tablesaw and just shave the edge by
half the blade width and try it again.
I'd use four clamps. You can never have enough clamps.