On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:56:16 -0500, "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>The RAS, the same one I still own, was also my first major power tool and
>that was close to thirty years ago. You ain't got all that much to talk to
>me about smart ass..
The RAS, the VERY same one you own, was also my first power tool close to 30
years ago...and I had ALL the attachments that Craftsman made for the thing.
That doesn't mean it was a good choice as a first tool.
Pick a project to build, and buy the tools as you need them. The job will
let you know what they should be. You have a piece of wood. You need to cut
it??? Aha .. a saw would be nice..... a Skiksaw will do the job, but
accuracy will suffer. Am I likely to need to cut lots of pieces of of
wood...maybe it's time to look at a table saw...and on and on it goes...
You will find that you have a certain style (interests) i.e. building
sheds, doghouses, bird houses.....or maybe it's fine furniture each will
have it's own set of preferred tools. Many people will say a jointer is
necessary......I have been woodworking for 30 years and still don't have a
jointer , although there have been times when it would have been nice. Now
excuse me cuz I have to go looking at jointers ;-)
Good luck with your new hobby
Doug
"Ah10201" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hi...
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a
stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first?
a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
> Otherwise, a strong case can be made for a bandsaw for your first big
> power tool purchase. They are much safer, quieter, create less dust
> and turn less wood into sawdust. A good one is also a little less
> expensive than a good table saw.
>
I agree. For someone just getting started, a bandsaw is a useful and safe
choice to start outfitting your shop.
An investment in basic hand tools (smoother, block, chisels, scrapers, hand
saws, measuring and marking implements, files, rasps, bench/vises and some
good books) could be the most useful to start. Not much can get
accomplished in your shop without the use of handtools and some knowledge.
By the time you've set yourself up with quality hand tools, you'll
definately be familiar with the term "budget" and "yes dear". By the time
the "heavy iron" hits your shop floor, make sure you can breath through your
ears! lol
Cheers and good luck!
aw
[email protected] (Ah10201) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> hi...
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first? a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
I acquired my tools one-by-one, as needed for the project. When I got
married, I received a hand saw as a gift. I then went back to
college. During my college years, I added a hand drill and a
skillsaw, total cost: $50. Using these two power tools I made a
picnic table with 4 benches, a doghouse, some bookshelves, a waterbed
frame and headboard, a computer workstation, etc.
Years later we bought our house and wanted to make a deck: I picked up
a Ryobi sliding compound mitre saw. The skillsaw "could" have worked,
and WAS working initially, but the "chop" feature, and mitre
capability of the Ryobi were huge time savers.
Then I tried my hand at making a classical guitar, and thought a
bandsaw would be handy. I traded the mitre saw to a friend who had a
small 14" bandsaw. Somewhere in between there I got a router for
Christmas. I also bought a small (14") Delta benchtop drill press
($79). That bandsaw and drill press (with sanding and planer
attachments added later) were huge time savers, and to this day are
often used. Oh yeah, a small Delta benchtop belt/disc sander too.
During guitar #2 I bought a used Crafstman TS for about $150. It was
a direct drive with bad bearings, so I ended up selling it to someone
who merely wanted to chop 2x4's (I needed to make exact cuts to the
nearest 0.001" in Rosewood). Still don't own a TS, but have been
borrowing a friend's, same guy who has my Ryobi mitre which is really
miss; will probably buy it back! (indeed, we recently added a second
deck and I had to borrow it back from him!)
While making my guitars, it became apparent that a thickness/drum
sander would be SO useful, but alas, too expensive to justify, so I
continued doing things by hand. More recently I began a project of
making a full set of "mission style" furniture, so I finally picked up
that drum sander, plus a Dewalt planer. These two additions have
become real favorites; I can't imagine the time it would take without
these tools. But they make a mess, and the 'ol shop vac just wasn't
able to handle the amount of dust generated by the drum sander. So I
had to buy a good dust-collector (Jet 650CK with 2 micron filter). I
also "needed" a 6" jointer for my furniture project, so I bought that
too (used for $175). At this point I should mention my 2003 tax
return has been spent in advance!
Well, that's my long-winded way of saying, "pick a project and THEN
decide what to to buy." I once read that famed luthier Jose
Romanillos built his first classical guitar on his kitchen table using
a few chisels and a knife. Today he receives something like $20,000
per guitar, and has a waiting list. Point: you don't NEED every tool
stocked at Woodcraft to make something nice, though having them WOULD
save time. I still don't own a TS, having loan of my friend's saw.
For what I'm doing, if I had to choose between a bandsaw or a TS, I'd
pick the bandsaw as it will make the same cuts I'm making with the TS.
However, I DO plan to get a TS within the year, but note that it
wasn't the first thing purchased!
Cheers,
Scott
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:24:16 -0500, "Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote:
>A used DeWalt Radial Arm Saw
Dangerous.
Requires constant setup to remain accurate.
Did I mention dangerous?
The RAS, the same one I still own, was also my first major power tool and
that was close to thirty years ago. You ain't got all that much to talk to
me about smart ass..
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:40:16 -0500, "Mike G" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> >Of course they are dangerous. So aren't table saws, jointers. planers,
> >bandsaws, router, grinders, hand grenades and thermonuclear devices.
> >
> >When used properly the RAS is one of the safest tools in the shop.
Certainly
> >safer then the a table saw.unless you try to rip with it..
>
> LOL!!!
> Did you bother to read the subject line?
> If it's his FIRST and ONLY power tool what do you expect him to do with
it? Cook
> dinner.
>
> >Even then it is
> >no more dangerous then any other tool that is slinging sharp metal
around.
> >
> >I won't even address the constantly needing alignment other then to say
it's
> >been eight years since I last did an alignment on my Sears RAS it's still
> >trucking along fine and in perfect alignment.
>
> Try ripping with it or cutting dados for awhile.
> Then we will talk.
>
Start by building a simple workbench with a drawer and a vise. Seek out a
woodworker near you to help and advise. If he has Harbor Freight Tools,
find someone else. ;-)
Dave
"Ah10201" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hi...
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a
stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first?
a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
As you can see......you could run outta money, before running outta
different tools........I opt for a tablesaw.....and build from
there.....projects, or getting more tools.....
"Ah10201" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hi...
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a
stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first?
a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
Greetings and Salutations...
On 03 Mar 2004 04:56:12 GMT, [email protected] (Ah10201) wrote:
>hi...
>
>I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a stepwise
>list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first? a
>router? maybe a miter saw?
>
>thank...
Welcome to an amazing field...with lots of interesting
challenges to overcome and techniques to master.
My suggestion (and forgive me if it echoes others) is to
figure out what you want to build first...then pick up the tools you
need to complete the project. Perhaps the best tool to buy FIRST
would be some inspiration. A good source of this (that remains
approachable by normal mortals) are the books by Doug Stowe.
http://www.dougstowe.com/book/books.htm
Boxes are a good start, actually, as they are useful, certainly
can be ornamental, and while simple enough to start building the basic
skills you will need for the coming years, DO requre learning to
make straight cuts and accurate angles.
If you embark on the box path, I would suggest that you
get a decent sliding miter saw. Although not great, the one that
Harbor Freight sells is NOT a bad option. It is a tad light-weight,
but, with gentle use, can produce good results.
Also, you will need a good drill (12v cordless works great),
a set of good drill bits (I suggest HSS or cobalt steel), a block
plane, glue, nitrile gloves, clamps (the Pittsburgh brand from Harbor
Freight are excellent deals) and a stack of poplar to practice on.
If you get a good hacksaw, and some fairly coarse blades, you can
cut excellent dovetails, but, can start off by making mitered joints
with re-enforcing splines. Hum...so many toys...so little time.
a good combination square is vital...I prefer Starrett, but, there
are other good ones out there. In any case, get a fixed try square
too...6" and 8" are good sizes...and a 4" one can be handy too.
The important thing though is to have the patience to build
the skills of understanding how the tool changes the wood and how to
control it.
I would also suggest that you seek out some of the adult
education woodworking courses (probably offered at some local school)
to help with the learning curve. Alternatively, ask around to your
friends and acquaintances to see if any of them are woodworkers. If
so, perhaps you can arrange to work with them, either on some of
their projects, or on some of yours, and get some "apprenticeship"
hours in. It is always a LOT less painful to learn by working with
someone who knows what they are doing...
Dave Mundt
On 03 Mar 2004 04:56:12 GMT, [email protected] (Ah10201) wrote:
>hi...
>
>I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a stepwise
>list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first? a
>router? maybe a miter saw?
>
>thank...
=======================
Someone already suggested this....A DRILL
and I would buy it right after I purchased A GOOD COMFORTABLE...... IN
MY HANDS....... SET OF SCREW DRIVERS....
My suggestion is to buy whatever TOOL you need to "do" the project you
are working on... I have been a serious woodworker for over 40 years
and I still do not own a miter saw... BUT I do own 6 routers ...
Never built anything that I needed a miter saw for...so I still do not
own one...
Bob Griffiths
.
Most folks I know would say a good tablesaw is the foundation of any good
shop.
You have a myriad of choices but I recommend you get the best you can
afford.
Buy a good one and you only cry once.
Rob
"Ah10201" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hi...
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a
stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first?
a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
This assumes total novice to woodworking and standard bugetary
constraints.
Here's my order of operations with an explaination:
1. Preliminary tool assumptions: Hammer, hand screwdrivers, pliers,
tape measure. Basically, the tools that come in the "Christmas Gift
Tool Packs". Wait for after father's day for the best deals.
2. A couple of 4" C-Clamps, Cheap paper dust mask, foam earplugs,
safety glasses - As Jeff Foxworthy said, "Safety first, pumpkin.
Safety first". Use them.
3. Cheap Circular saw with a good blade (I'm talking $50 B&D from the
BORG here, nothing special) - Its amazing how much you can do with
with butt joints and finishing nails. Later on down the road (Maybe a
year, maybe a decade) you will shout profanities from your shop, throw
up your arms, and get a good one. Or, by then you might have a $2000
table saw and won't care about your crappy circular saw.
4. Buy Cheap plywood and studs. Have fun slapping crap together. Make
a pair of sawhorses or a folding "workbench" - You'll find it a luxury
after having to clamp your sheet goods to a picnic table.
6. Handsaw(s) of your liking - So you can stop your cut with the
circular saw and then square off the cut.
7. Cheap corded drill. It's not just for screwing anymore :)
8. Better blade for the circular saw. After using the included steel
crap, you get a better understanding of why some say "Buy quality"
9. Some good layout tools. Start thinking about precision, but don't
necessarily practice it :) Learn to use a starightedge guide for your
circular saw on sheet goods, you'll be amazed at how much easier
straight things fit together.
10. Random orbit sander (ROS) and/or planes and scrapers. Start into
the "finishing thing". Every now and then, work above 60 grit.
11. Buy better plywood and good pine (or even poplar!)
12. Jig saw - Start making some curves. You'll probably use the thing
for more than you expect.
13. Chisels - DAGS "Scary Sharp". Don't go overboard, but don't buy
the cheapest at the store either. A cheap chisel that is sharp is
better than an expensive one that is dull. Believe it or not, at this
point you could be making dovetails!
14. Decent router (PC, dewalt, etc). Buy a good router book. Unleash
the power! Don't buy a bit set. Start with a few quality straight bits
and a roundover, ogee or other bearing-guided profile bit. Now you can
(More easily) make rabbets, dadoes and other fun joinery. Buy bits as
you need them. After using it for a while, you will probably get the
true thirst for power tools.
15. Clamp, clamps, and more clamps. Did I mention clamps? Buy some
glue so you can use the clamps. Who said clamps?
16. Table Saw. Used, new, whatever. Buy the best you can or have inner
piece about spending money you will throw away. My suggestion: (ATTN:
FLAME MAGNET HERE!!!) Don't put too much stock in the "Buy it once"
philosophy. I alway thought it was a funny argument when you factor in
the net present value of the thousands of board feet of wood that will
go through any table saw (Except the crappy benchtops, of course).
After using your first table saw for a while you will invariably want
to try out other models or upgrade.
17. Buy quality hardwood and practice precision.
18. Upgrade the tools you have or continue the slippery slope from
here. At this point, you should start getting a feel for what you need
instead of having other dictate it. Buy what you need if you need it.
At this point your grandchildren's inheritance will soon be squandered
and you wife will refer to herself as "the woodworking widow".
A used DeWalt Radial Arm Saw and a Porter Cable 690 router.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Ah10201" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hi...
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a
stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first?
a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
Ah10201 wrote:
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first? a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
Nearly every woodworking project will involve making smaller
pieces of wood out of larger ones...
If woodworking means "building a deck" then I'd suggest a good
portable circular saw. I've particularly liked those with a worm
gear drive - they're somewhat more expensive; but are worth the
difference (IMO).
On the other hand, if woodworking means bookcases, tables, and
cabinets, then I'd suggest the Porter Cable panel saw. It's not
cheap; but it'll last for a long time and do a good job. Mine has
been doing a first class job for over thirty years and may last
longer than I.
The second tool I'd suggest would be a variable-speed drill,
which can drill holes, drive screws, and even spin a sanding disk.
If you stay with woodworking, you'll probably want both a router
and a miter saw. It's probably worth pointing out that the miter
saw isn't much good for ripping or cutting sheet materials, so
the portable circular saw is a better choice when you're just
starting out. I'd be inclined to prioritize a good table saw (the
best you can afford!) ahead of a miter saw.
I suggest talking with people in your neighborhood who do the
kind of woodworking you're interested in. Ask them what they like
and don't like about the tools they have (or have seen) in use.
Resist the urge to buy tools just because they're pretty, because
they're cheap, or because you /might/ need 'em someday. If you
buy tools as you have actual need, and if you only buy quality
tools, your money will go a /lot/ farther. I've discovered that
it's worth waiting and saving up for really good tools.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
Ahh, those quiet moments in the shop at the end of the day when you shut
down all the power tools and relax at the bench. Your left hand reaches for
that piece of stock that needed just a little bit of trimming, your right
hand for the 1/4" chisel. You sigh, your body relaxing, your mind going over
what you are going to be doing in the shop tomorrow. Then it happens!
You've paid absolutely no attention to the stock and chisel in your hands
and you've buried that nice sharp (If you are lucky) chisel a 1/4" into the
ball of your thumb.
If you look really hard there is a moral in that story.
;-)
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:40:16 -0500, "Mike G"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Of course they are dangerous. So aren't table saws, jointers. planers,
> >bandsaws, router, grinders, hand grenades and thermonuclear devices.
>
> Not to mention a utility knife.
>
> Barry
Bay Area Dave wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
>> Nearly every woodworking project will involve making smaller
>> pieces of wood out of larger ones...
>
> So THAT'S what I've been doing wrong! I keep trying to take
> small pieces of wood and make larger ones from them. Duh!
BAD...
You're doin' fine. You're just focusing on the second phase.
I've talked with a fair number of would-be woodworkers - and an
awful lot of 'em have never stopped to think that the "making
larger" would go a lot more smoothly if the earlier "making
smaller" was done with more precision. (-:
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
...calculate to seven decimal places, measure with a yardstick,
cut with an axe, and adjust as necessary...
There is no step like method nor correct answer for that question. The
variables are mind boggling. If you have to ask you are also probably not
prepared to properly evaluate the varied responses you are going to get much
less use it when you buy it. There is only so much information that can be
put into an e-mail and nobody responding knows any essential facts about
your circumstances to be able to correctly answer the question in any way
except through luck.
Woodworking has little or nothing to do with power tools and everything to
do with skill developed with practice and knowledge, despite what how Norm
makes it look in a half hour. Hell, there are a hundred and one things you
need and need to do too accomplish a task before you even turn on a power
tool. Alright, maybe only fifty. It isn't rocket science but it sure isn't
using the remote to change the channel on the TV either.
If you don't have the patience to sit down with some books on woodworking
and do a little study on the basics, pick a not too ambitious project you
think you'd like to make, get some books on the basics, then at least go
through them and figure out what tools would be appropriate to make that
project and only buy those tools I highly recommend the first option.
If you insist on running out and buy every other power tool you are going to
get recommendations on, convinced that they are going to turn you into the
next DIY woodworking star, I feel confident in projecting you will shortly
be joining those people with ads in the classifieds that say "For sale,
Hardly used". Bless their hearts.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Ah10201" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hi...
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a
stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first?
a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> Start by building a simple workbench with a drawer and a vise. Seek
> out a woodworker near you to help and advise. If he has Harbor
> Freight Tools, find someone else. ;-)
> Dave
>
Dave's right. The best power tool is a friend and mentor who can help you
figure out how to solve the problem in front of you, with the tools
available to you. Better yet, more than just one.
The computer you used to reach the Wreck also qualifies as a power tool.
But someone to show you how, or do it with you, or offer encouragement when
you're stumped is priceless.
Now here's the warning: You can get in very deeply, if your buddy has a
tool habit.
Go. Use what you have to make something useful and/or pretty.
Patriarch
woodworking is a pretty broad area. what are you going to do? build
birdhouses? cabinets? guitars? or just frame up a new room on your house?
are you trying to fill a closet with tools or a shop?
a decent table saw is pretty expensive to buy 'just to get into'
woodworking. so is a decent drill press. you might start with a router...
lots of bang for buck there.
randy
"Ah10201" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hi...
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a
stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first?
a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
This article in Popular Mechanics, published in January, 1998, is what
got me started in woodworking. Even though most of the tools
discussed don't have a power cord, it got me thinking on the right
track. The only tool I ever regretted buying was my Craftsman Router,
but I still use it at least once a month.
Joe
http://popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/furniture/1998/11/tools_for_beginners/
> hi...
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first? a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
Mike G wrote:
>Ahh, those quiet moments in the shop at the end of the day when you shut
>down all the power tools and relax at the bench. Your left hand reaches for
>that piece of stock that needed just a little bit of trimming, your right
>hand for the 1/4" chisel. You sigh, your body relaxing, your mind going over
>what you are going to be doing in the shop tomorrow. Then it happens!
>
>You've paid absolutely no attention to the stock and chisel in your hands
>and you've buried that nice sharp (If you are lucky) chisel a 1/4" into the
>ball of your thumb.
>
>If you look really hard there is a moral in that story.
>
>;-)
>
Uh, that chisels are not your friend?!?
Here's the start of a list:
1. Drill, 3/8" VSR and a set of drill bits up to 1/4" diameter
2. Circular saw with carbide-toothed blade
After that, nearly everything else removes/cuts wood so that it can be
fastened together.
Since clamps, guides, chisels, planes are not powered by air or
electricity, they are acquired as needed and are off-list.
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:40:16 -0500, "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Of course they are dangerous. So aren't table saws, jointers. planers,
>bandsaws, router, grinders, hand grenades and thermonuclear devices.
>
>When used properly the RAS is one of the safest tools in the shop. Certainly
>safer then the a table saw.unless you try to rip with it..
LOL!!!
Did you bother to read the subject line?
If it's his FIRST and ONLY power tool what do you expect him to do with it? Cook
dinner.
>Even then it is
>no more dangerous then any other tool that is slinging sharp metal around.
>
>I won't even address the constantly needing alignment other then to say it's
>been eight years since I last did an alignment on my Sears RAS it's still
>trucking along fine and in perfect alignment.
Try ripping with it or cutting dados for awhile.
Then we will talk.
Ah10201 wrote:
> hi...
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first? a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
Assuming you have basic hand tools:
The most versatile saw you can get is a Radial Arm Saw (RAS). Yes, a bad RAS is
a pain in the ass, and their not building good ones anymore, least their not
building a RAS most of us could afford. This would limit you to buying used.
Last week I saw a well cared for Red Star go for $110 at auction.
If I wanted to buy my first saw, knowing what I do, that Red Star would not have
gone for $110. I would have been involved in the bidding.
If you haven't basic hand tools:
Get a 3/8 reversible drill.
You really haven't given us much to go on here.
--
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)
"Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote:
>A used DeWalt Radial Arm Saw and a Porter Cable 690 router.
If you expect to buy only a couple of power tools ever and build only
the occasional project then I agree that RAS and router give you a
broad versatility with low expense.
However if you expect to get serious (build cabinets, furniture, etc),
then I suggest avoiding the RAS. As others have suggested, go with
table saw and router first.
My RAS was ok for a while. I ripped, crosscut, mitered, beveled,
drilled and routed with it (with drill chuck and router collet
attachments). I made ok outdoor furniture and general stuff like
adjustable garage shelving.
But I've regretted my RAS purchase ever since I've tried doing
precision work. (I went to Sears to buy a table saw 10 years ago
[before I knew not to] and was convinced by the Sears salesman that
the RAS was more versatile). It's a pain to keep in adjustment, a
pain to set up for each cut, and you can never get it to be as
accurate as a good table saw with good fence. Like every tool that
tries to do many things, it does none of them as well as other tools
that do just one thing.
Michael
ive seen some of those in time/life books. like a big transformer where
everything folds out. biggest problem i see is you arent going to be
working much with 4x8 sheets of plywood in your closet <g>
randy
"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ptq1c.35995$PR3.679266@attbi_s03...
> Many would like to fill a closet with a shop. I remember seeing a pretty
> good woodworking book that showed closet-sized shops. Just can't remember
> the name.
>
> :)
>
>
>
> > are you trying to fill a closet with tools or a shop?
>
>
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:45:26 -0500, "A Dubya" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>> Otherwise, a strong case can be made for a bandsaw for your first big
>> power tool purchase. They are much safer, quieter, create less dust
>> and turn less wood into sawdust. A good one is also a little less
>> expensive than a good table saw.
>>
>
>
>I agree. For someone just getting started, a bandsaw is a useful and safe
>choice to start outfitting your shop.
I know a neander who lists a band saw as his ONLY power tool.
Barry
you must be new here. Everyone here knows not to get into an argument
with Rumpty about Remedial Arm Saws. Don't say I didn't warn ya!
dave
[email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:24:16 -0500, "Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>A used DeWalt Radial Arm Saw
>
>
> Dangerous.
> Requires constant setup to remain accurate.
> Did I mention dangerous?
>
Rather than offer recommendations and joining the argument fray, I'll just
relate some of my experiences. I have never worked wood professionally nor
do I have 40 years experience. There are some really knowledgable and
experienced people in this forum. That makes me more qualified to talk than
them, because it wasn't that long ago that I was in your shoes.
I've had tools for working on cars and motorcycles for years. But my first
official woodworking tool was a router, purchased explicitly to cut the
slots for a big set of utility shelves in the garage. I used it extensively
for about two weeks. Then I put it back in the box for almost two years.
Only in the last few months has it been reborn. I discovered a router is
really close to useless until you spend a lot more money on bits and a
router table and something to suck up all the dust. Its one of those tools
that cost $200+$1000. The $1000 is what you spend to make it really useful.
Last year, I went crazy and spent a lot of money on a table saw. I had
used a table saw once in my life at the university wood shop to make some
parts for a sail boat. So the first thing I discovered after getting it put
together was that it didn't even have a blade. I got a blade and
immediately begin using the saw. I've used it almost daily ever since. Its
been one of the most enabling purchases I've ever made. Plan on spending at
least a few dollars on a eye protection.
Other purchases I've made include
a drill press - you cannot build anything with it but it sure is useful.
dust collector - the start of a long and frustrating lifetime project that
means you are serious about woodworking.
brad gun - one of the neatest tools I've ever encountered. Sometimes I think
I could build anything with a table saw and brad gun.
band saw - I just ordered this. I suspect I am going to find it to be as
useful as the table saw. Had I known about Laguna band saws, I might have
purchased it before the table saw.
Once you get hooked, you might as well include your hobby as part of your
financial planning. Plan for your retirement and at least $10,000 for your
hobby. That will get you started.<grin>
Bob
"Ah10201" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hi...
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a
stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first?
a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:40:16 -0500, "Mike G"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Of course they are dangerous. So aren't table saws, jointers. planers,
>bandsaws, router, grinders, hand grenades and thermonuclear devices.
Not to mention a utility knife.
Barry
On 03 Mar 2004 04:56:12 GMT, [email protected] (Ah10201) wrote:
|hi...
|
|I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a stepwise
|list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first? a
|router? maybe a miter saw?
It depends. If you are considering working with sheet goods, i.e.
plywood, etc. then as most everybody will answer, you need a table
saw.
Otherwise, a strong case can be made for a bandsaw for your first big
power tool purchase. They are much safer, quieter, create less dust
and turn less wood into sawdust. A good one is also a little less
expensive than a good table saw.
If you are thinking portable power tool, then a good router would be
my suggestion.
Recommended reading: Fine Woodworking Magazine. issue No. 153.
Wes
On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:31:39 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:25:27 GMT, B a r r y
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:40:16 -0500, "Mike G"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Of course they are dangerous. So aren't table saws, jointers. planers,
>>>bandsaws, router, grinders, hand grenades and thermonuclear devices.
>>
>>Not to mention a utility knife.
>>
>Did you read the subject line?
>A RAS is not a great first power tool.
No shit, really? <G>
I think the first power tool should be a band saw. I know a neander
whose ONLY power tool is a band saw. It resaws, rips, crosscuts, and
cuts curves, and can do all of them at a bevel, if necessary.
Everything else is actually pretty simple to do by hand.
Read what I quoted.
Barry
On 03 Mar 2004 04:56:12 GMT, [email protected] (Ah10201) wrote:
>hi...
>
>I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a stepwise
>list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first? a
>router? maybe a miter saw?
>
Skilsaw.
"Ah10201" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I'm just getting into wood working and was wondering if there is a
stepwise
> list of tools to acquire. what tool do most people recommend buying first?
a
> router? maybe a miter saw?
>
> thank...
What do you want to make? That will determine the order of buy. Anything
done with a power tool can be done with a hand tool usually cheaper, but it
may take longer to accomplish. It is possible to rip even very long boards
with a hand saw if you want to get that router first, but be sure you have
something to rout before spending the money.
Electric drills are more efficient than a brace and bit (probably cheaper
too) , but holes can be made many ways.
What kind of money do you want to spend? Table saws can be had for $200 or
$2000. Both will cut the same wood, one just does it will much less fuss
and maybe a little faster. Give us some more idea of your goal and we can
offer more detailed advice.
Ed
On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:25:27 GMT, B a r r y
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:40:16 -0500, "Mike G"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Of course they are dangerous. So aren't table saws, jointers. planers,
>>bandsaws, router, grinders, hand grenades and thermonuclear devices.
>
>Not to mention a utility knife.
>
Did you read the subject line?
A RAS is not a great first power tool.
Doesn't mean it was a bad one either. Still go all your fingers? I suspect
you do and are none the worse for wear.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:56:16 -0500, "Mike G" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> >The RAS, the same one I still own, was also my first major power tool and
> >that was close to thirty years ago. You ain't got all that much to talk
to
> >me about smart ass..
>
> The RAS, the VERY same one you own, was also my first power tool close to
30
> years ago...and I had ALL the attachments that Craftsman made for the
thing.
>
> That doesn't mean it was a good choice as a first tool.
Of course they are dangerous. So aren't table saws, jointers. planers,
bandsaws, router, grinders, hand grenades and thermonuclear devices.
When used properly the RAS is one of the safest tools in the shop. Certainly
safer then the a table saw.unless you try to rip with it.. Even then it is
no more dangerous then any other tool that is slinging sharp metal around.
I won't even address the constantly needing alignment other then to say it's
been eight years since I last did an alignment on my Sears RAS it's still
trucking along fine and in perfect alignment.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:24:16 -0500, "Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >A used DeWalt Radial Arm Saw
>
> Dangerous.
> Requires constant setup to remain accurate.
> Did I mention dangerous?
>
>(I went to Sears to buy a table saw 10 years ago
[before I knew not to] and was convinced by the Sears salesman that
the RAS was more versatile).
The sears RAS of that vintage is/was junk. A good used DeWalt is a superb
RAS.
> It's a pain to keep in adjustment, a
pain to set up for each cut, and you can never get it to be as
accurate as a good table saw with good fence.
A used DeWalt is more accurate and doesn't lose adjustment.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >A used DeWalt Radial Arm Saw and a Porter Cable 690 router.
>
> If you expect to buy only a couple of power tools ever and build only
> the occasional project then I agree that RAS and router give you a
> broad versatility with low expense.
>
> However if you expect to get serious (build cabinets, furniture, etc),
> then I suggest avoiding the RAS. As others have suggested, go with
> table saw and router first.
>
> My RAS was ok for a while. I ripped, crosscut, mitered, beveled,
> drilled and routed with it (with drill chuck and router collet
> attachments). I made ok outdoor furniture and general stuff like
> adjustable garage shelving.
>
> But I've regretted my RAS purchase ever since I've tried doing
> precision work. (I went to Sears to buy a table saw 10 years ago
> [before I knew not to] and was convinced by the Sears salesman that
> the RAS was more versatile). It's a pain to keep in adjustment, a
> pain to set up for each cut, and you can never get it to be as
> accurate as a good table saw with good fence. Like every tool that
> tries to do many things, it does none of them as well as other tools
> that do just one thing.
>
> Michael
>