I am building a small project out of cherry that will be in a kitchen and
hence around water. Bob Flexner's book recommends gel stain since cherry
does not stain evenly due to swirly grain. The gel stain is to give it even
color. The he recommends finishing with an oil/varnish blend (e.g., tung oil
varnish). I want to apply polyurethane to protect from water. Have any of
you used gel stain on cherry and then applied poly? Are there any gotchas I
need to worry about?
TIA.
Dick Snyder
On Nov 4, 4:14=A0am, "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> I am building a small project out of cherry that will be in a kitchen and
> hence around water. Bob Flexner's book recommends gel stain since cherry
> does not stain evenly due to swirly grain. The gel stain is to give it ev=
en
> color. The he recommends finishing with an oil/varnish blend (e.g., tung =
oil
> varnish). I want to apply polyurethane to protect from water. Have any of
> you used gel stain on cherry and then applied poly? Are there any gotchas=
I
> need to worry about?
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
The biggest "gotcha" will probably be the impending rain of "don't
ever stain cherry" postings that typically ensue when this question
pops up. I personally like an oil/varnish on unstained cherry -- the
wood is what it is and maintains it's native character. I've seen
some stain jobs that are ok and others that are abysmal (might as well
have used purple paint). If your goal is to homogenize sapwood with
heart wood then do lots of practice pieces -- but also understand that
the heartwood will age under the stain and you will have color shifts
with age. If you are staining just so you have a certain color out
of the shop, then what you have in a year will be different.
hex
-30-
Not really much experience. If it was just rings from glasses of water and
things like that, I wouldn't worry. For heavy exposure I'd go for a bigger
buildup for the protection you want. Might be easier/quicker to brush or
spray on a finish than to have to wipe on a lot of coats. But, it can be
done with the General product - it's just a thinned out poly to make
application easy, so it will do it after enough coats.
Another way to get there is to use a pore filler like Z-Poxy (I've used it
under a guitar finish) that will really seal and protect the wood before you
put any kind of finish on. Then a couple coats of General and you're
probably there.
Gary in KC
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks Gary. Have you had experience with water making contact with the
poly
> finish?
>
> "Gary A in KC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm using the General Finishes on a number of pieces now. It's just a
wipe
> > on polyurethane basically, so it will give you a poly protection, but
only
> > if you put enough coats on. Since it's a wipe on, your finish coats are
> > much
> > thinner than a brushed or sprayed on finish. More coats of the General
> > will
> > give you more build up and more protection.
> >
> >
> >> Thanks to the group for your replies. The idea of using an oil appeals
to
> >> me. I have used Seal-A-Cell from General Finishes followed by
Arm-R-Seal
> > (an
> >> oil and urethane topcoat) also from General Finishes on a mahogany
piece
> >> I
> >> did. The mahogany piece was not in an environment where it might get
wet.
> > If
> >> this combo could work in a kitchen environment, then I would get the
> > natural
> >> cherry wood IF the oil and urethane topcoat would protect the piece
from
> >> getting messed up by water. Does anyone have any experience with these
> >> products in the kind of environment I am talking about?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
I'm using the General Finishes on a number of pieces now. It's just a wipe
on polyurethane basically, so it will give you a poly protection, but only
if you put enough coats on. Since it's a wipe on, your finish coats are much
thinner than a brushed or sprayed on finish. More coats of the General will
give you more build up and more protection.
> Thanks to the group for your replies. The idea of using an oil appeals to
> me. I have used Seal-A-Cell from General Finishes followed by Arm-R-Seal
(an
> oil and urethane topcoat) also from General Finishes on a mahogany piece I
> did. The mahogany piece was not in an environment where it might get wet.
If
> this combo could work in a kitchen environment, then I would get the
natural
> cherry wood IF the oil and urethane topcoat would protect the piece from
> getting messed up by water. Does anyone have any experience with these
> products in the kind of environment I am talking about?
>
>
Dick Snyder wrote:
> I am building a small project out of cherry that will be in a kitchen and
> hence around water. Bob Flexner's book recommends gel stain since cherry
> does not stain evenly due to swirly grain. The gel stain is to give it even
> color. The he recommends finishing with an oil/varnish blend (e.g., tung oil
> varnish). I want to apply polyurethane to protect from water. Have any of
> you used gel stain on cherry and then applied poly? Are there any gotchas I
> need to worry about?
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
>
>
I also like the idea of polyurethane to protect from water, etc., and
did a set of cabinets just that way. Afterwards, I had occasion to wipe
some BLO on a piece of Cherry, and wow! Great color and grain pop!
On the next project I am going to look into oil, possibly BLO, letting
it sit to cure (how long?) and then shoot the poly.
I am sure others on this group have more knowledge of this than I.
Harvey
"Tim Daneliuk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>> I am building a small project out of cherry that will be in a kitchen and
>> hence around water. Bob Flexner's book recommends gel stain since cherry
>> does not stain evenly due to swirly grain. The gel stain is to give it
>> even
>> color. The he recommends finishing with an oil/varnish blend (e.g., tung
>> oil
>> varnish). I want to apply polyurethane to protect from water. Have any of
>> you used gel stain on cherry and then applied poly? Are there any gotchas
>> I
>> need to worry about?
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Dick Snyder
>>
>>
>
> Here is my finishing method for cherry (and pretty much everything
> else):
>
> - ROS sand at 220, then 330 grits.
>
> - Wipe piece down with damp cloth to pop the grain. Let it dry and ROS
> sand again at
> 330 grit.
>
> - Hand wet sand at 400 then 600 grits.
>
> - Stain as desired - don't listen to people who hyperventilate about
> staining cherry. It's *YOUR* piece, do what you want with it.
> Personally,
> I've done it both ways with good results.
>
> - Keep wet sanding up to the level of smoothness you want. Restaining
> as/if needed -
> watch the edges and corners.
>
> - For surfaces that will be in contact with water, I seal the piece with
> water-based
> poly. I *wipe* the poly on (again, watching edges and corners), let it
> dry and
> wet sand it in steps of 600, 1000, and finally 2000 grit.
>
> - For non-wet environments, I like a shellac/turps wax finish. The
> shellac imparts
> a beautiful glow to the piece and is protected by a home grown
> wax made of beeswax and turpentine.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
> PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
Thanks to the group for your replies. The idea of using an oil appeals to
me. I have used Seal-A-Cell from General Finishes followed by Arm-R-Seal (an
oil and urethane topcoat) also from General Finishes on a mahogany piece I
did. The mahogany piece was not in an environment where it might get wet. If
this combo could work in a kitchen environment, then I would get the natural
cherry wood IF the oil and urethane topcoat would protect the piece from
getting messed up by water. Does anyone have any experience with these
products in the kind of environment I am talking about?
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:14:04 +0000, Dick Snyder wrote:
> I am building a small project out of cherry that will be in a kitchen and
> hence around water. Bob Flexner's book recommends gel stain since cherry
> does not stain evenly due to swirly grain. The gel stain is to give it even
> color.
I have not found that gel stain is much better than liquid. They both
blotch on woods like cherry. The gel may blotch a little less, but
IMNSHO, the main use of gel stain is for vertical surfaces.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Even the mention of staining cherry in this group will
get you tarred and feathered (figuatively, of course).
My favorite finish for cherry is a swipe with linseed or tung oil to bring
out the grain, followed by however many coats of dewaxed shellac I feel
like.
I know you mentioned water, but I've tried to produce water marks on a
dewaxed shellac finish and have not been able to. I'd be much more
worried if you'd mentioned alcohol :-).
Thanks Gary. Have you had experience with water making contact with the poly
finish?
"Gary A in KC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm using the General Finishes on a number of pieces now. It's just a wipe
> on polyurethane basically, so it will give you a poly protection, but only
> if you put enough coats on. Since it's a wipe on, your finish coats are
> much
> thinner than a brushed or sprayed on finish. More coats of the General
> will
> give you more build up and more protection.
>
>
>> Thanks to the group for your replies. The idea of using an oil appeals to
>> me. I have used Seal-A-Cell from General Finishes followed by Arm-R-Seal
> (an
>> oil and urethane topcoat) also from General Finishes on a mahogany piece
>> I
>> did. The mahogany piece was not in an environment where it might get wet.
> If
>> this combo could work in a kitchen environment, then I would get the
> natural
>> cherry wood IF the oil and urethane topcoat would protect the piece from
>> getting messed up by water. Does anyone have any experience with these
>> products in the kind of environment I am talking about?
>>
>>
>
>
Dick Snyder wrote:
> I am building a small project out of cherry that will be in a kitchen and
> hence around water. Bob Flexner's book recommends gel stain since cherry
> does not stain evenly due to swirly grain. The gel stain is to give it even
> color. The he recommends finishing with an oil/varnish blend (e.g., tung oil
> varnish). I want to apply polyurethane to protect from water. Have any of
> you used gel stain on cherry and then applied poly? Are there any gotchas I
> need to worry about?
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
>
>
Here is my finishing method for cherry (and pretty much everything
else):
- ROS sand at 220, then 330 grits.
- Wipe piece down with damp cloth to pop the grain. Let it dry and ROS sand again at
330 grit.
- Hand wet sand at 400 then 600 grits.
- Stain as desired - don't listen to people who hyperventilate about
staining cherry. It's *YOUR* piece, do what you want with it. Personally,
I've done it both ways with good results.
- Keep wet sanding up to the level of smoothness you want. Restaining as/if needed -
watch the edges and corners.
- For surfaces that will be in contact with water, I seal the piece with water-based
poly. I *wipe* the poly on (again, watching edges and corners), let it dry and
wet sand it in steps of 600, 1000, and finally 2000 grit.
- For non-wet environments, I like a shellac/turps wax finish. The shellac imparts
a beautiful glow to the piece and is protected by a home grown
wax made of beeswax and turpentine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
hex wrote:
> On Nov 4, 4:14 am, "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > I am building a small project out of cherry that will be in a kitchen and
> > hence around water. Bob Flexner's book recommends gel stain since cherry
> > does not stain evenly due to swirly grain. The gel stain is to give it even
> > color. The he recommends finishing with an oil/varnish blend (e.g., tung oil
> > varnish). I want to apply polyurethane to protect from water. Have any of
> > you used gel stain on cherry and then applied poly? Are there any gotchas I
> > need to worry about?
> >
> > TIA.
> >
> > Dick Snyder
>
> The biggest "gotcha" will probably be the impending rain of "don't
> ever stain cherry" postings that typically ensue when this question
> pops up. I personally like an oil/varnish on unstained cherry -- the
> wood is what it is and maintains it's native character. I've seen
> some stain jobs that are ok and others that are abysmal (might as well
> have used purple paint). If your goal is to homogenize sapwood with
> heart wood then do lots of practice pieces -- but also understand that
> the heartwood will age under the stain and you will have color shifts
> with age. If you are staining just so you have a certain color out
> of the shop, then what you have in a year will be different.
>
> hex
> -30-
You can get an even stain colour if you spray finish the cherry with a stain
tint in the finish , it does tend to mask some of the cherries natural
characteristics though--