Glue for maple to maple?

I made a counter top out of 2x2x48 strips of maple which I joined with
biscuits and Titebond II yellow glue. It's only been a year, but it's
worked great so far. I posted some pictures. They're in reverse
chronological order, so start with Page 3 first.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcaron2/search/tags:sideboard/?page=3
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcaron2/search/tags:sideboard/?page=2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcaron2/search/tags:sideboard/?page=1

Josh

I'm guessing you are gluing up a top for a workbench. When I glued up mine,
I just got a small paint roller and rolled the edges with TBII. (My
benchtop was 2 1/2" thick white Oak). Before the glue up, I prepared
everything, including drilling holes through all the boards for them to be
secured with allthread which ran the width of the boards in 5 places. No
clamps were even needed, just tightened the allthread and tapped the boards
flush with a deadblow. Been beat on for over a year now, still solid as can
be. --dave



"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:yu8Df.11917$eR.8083@fed1read03...
>
>> Take your pick. I would use the most common to woodworking.
>>
>>
>>> Should I score or rough up the sides with sand paper before gluing?
>>> Maybe
>>> with a toothing blade (not that I have one, of course)?
>>
>> NO. The thicker the glue gap the weaker the joint. Just make sure you
>> spread the glue out over the entire surface and don't just squirt out a
>> bead and let the clamps spread the glue.
>>
>>
> THANK YOU Leon and everyone (mostly) else!
>
> OK, I've got a full quart of TB-II, so, for what most guys say in
> response, 'cept for "JT",
> that should do it. I guess I should align the boards with biscuits? Or
> would that weaken
> the whole assembly in any way?
>
> At the adult ed. shop I go to, there are six pretty large student
> woodworkers table benches,
> this is a high school mind you, each is perfectly square. Each has a vise
> (old Wiltons with
> "L" shaped jaw faces) on the far right corner of each face, four students
> to each table.
>
> These tops are soft white maple or euro steamed beech and atop "locker
> stands". They must
> have been a factory product for schools and definitely made in the 60's,
> but some of the
> edge boards have come loose, remainiong attached at the each end because
> of metal binding
> coping strips using screws, I think they are thick extruded aluminum.
>
> So I suppose if TB-II didn't exist back then, it must be good enough these
> days, to last a
> lifetime of pounding, yes? But only 5 minutes open time....
> aaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh!
>
> --
> Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
> cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
> not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
>

Sat, Jan 28, 2006, 6:17pm (EST-3) [email protected] (AAvK), or someone,
did burble:
<snip> But this maple is hard rock sugar, very hard and *glassy* so I am
curious about which glue to use, 202GF, 2002GF, TB-II, TB-II extend,
yellow, white, epoxy, super glue (lol), school glue, school paper
paste...??? <snip>

You had to ask? Maple syrup.



JOAT
You only need two tools: WD-40, and duct tape. If it doesn't move and
it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 18:17:12 -0800, "AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Hello all,
>
>I am soon to take the round out of my maple boards on jointer and through
>the thicknesser. Then I will use hand saw to cut in dog holes, and drill holes
>for front-to-back rods (fully threaded or end threaded).
>
>But this maple is hard rock sugar, very hard and *glassy* so I am curious about
>which glue to use, 202GF, 2002GF, TB-II, TB-II extend, yellow, white, epoxy,
>super glue (lol), school glue, school paper paste...???
>
>Should I score or rough up the sides with sand paper before gluing? Maybe
>with a toothing blade (not that I have one, of course)?

Plain 'ol yellow glue works well.

> I have used Gorilla glue and garden variety yellow glue. I don't see
> much difference.


Yeah? Doing smooth hard maple to smooth hard maple? Facing to facing?

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

I just want to THANK everyone that helped here, I will use the TB-II that I have,
it's gotta get used anyway. Much apprecited!!!

...Now to work out the dog holes and threaded rod arrangement. For strength I am
thinking stainless rod and threaded on the ends.

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:vw8Df.11919$eR.2497@fed1read03...
>
>> Come on! you can't beat yellow carpenters glue
>> unless you need waterproof. The smoother the surface and the better the
>> fit, the stronger the joint.
>
>
> OK thanks! But what about biscuits for aligning the boards, would that
> weaken it?
> And, read my reply to Leon.
>
> --
> Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
> cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
> not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
>

I never use biscuits when edge joining boards. I don't have problems with
alignment so I never saw the need.

Max Mahanke wrote:
> Explain how biscuits will weaken it. I don't see how.
>
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:I%[email protected]...
>
>>AAvK wrote:
>>
>>>>Come on! you can't beat yellow carpenters glue
>>>>unless you need waterproof. The smoother the surface and the better the
>
> fit, the stronger the joint.
>
>>>
>>>
>>>OK thanks! But what about biscuits for aligning the boards, would that
>
> weaken it?
>
>>>And, read my reply to Leon.
>>>
>>
>>Sure it will weaken it, but not significantly.
>>The purpose of biscuits is alignment and if you
>>need something for alignment, use it. I personally
>>use a spline of 1/4" plywood for alignment and
>>have never had any problems.
>
>
>
Any reduction in the edge surface area and perfect
fit reduces the strength. I imagine that if you
get a perfect match all around the insert (full
contact), there would be no reduction in strength,
but full contact is not likely because each
biscuit would require 3 contact surfaces on each
board. Nonetheless, everything that I have read
indicates that the strength of a perfectly flat
contact is equal to or superior to any other
surface with splines, dowels, biscuits, etc. That
said, the difference in strength will never make
any difference for most cabinet or other home type
woodwork.

AAvK wrote:
>>Come on! you can't beat yellow carpenters glue
>>unless you need waterproof. The smoother the surface and the better the fit, the stronger the joint.
>
>
>
> OK thanks! But what about biscuits for aligning the boards, would that weaken it?
> And, read my reply to Leon.
>

Sure it will weaken it, but not significantly.
The purpose of biscuits is alignment and if you
need something for alignment, use it. I personally
use a spline of 1/4" plywood for alignment and
have never had any problems.

"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eAVCf.11878$eR.181@fed1read03...
> But this maple is hard rock sugar, very hard and *glassy* so I am curious
> about
> which glue to use, 202GF, 2002GF, TB-II, TB-II extend, yellow, white,
> epoxy,
> super glue (lol), school glue, school paper paste...???

Take your pick. I would use the most common to woodworking.


> Should I score or rough up the sides with sand paper before gluing? Maybe
> with a toothing blade (not that I have one, of course)?

NO. The thicker the glue gap the weaker the joint. Just make sure you
spread the glue out over the entire surface and don't just squirt out a bead
and let the clamps spread the glue.



> --
> Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
> cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
> not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
>

Explain how biscuits will weaken it. I don't see how.

"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:I%[email protected]...
> AAvK wrote:
> >>Come on! you can't beat yellow carpenters glue
> >>unless you need waterproof. The smoother the surface and the better the
fit, the stronger the joint.
> >
> >
> >
> > OK thanks! But what about biscuits for aligning the boards, would that
weaken it?
> > And, read my reply to Leon.
> >
>
> Sure it will weaken it, but not significantly.
> The purpose of biscuits is alignment and if you
> need something for alignment, use it. I personally
> use a spline of 1/4" plywood for alignment and
> have never had any problems.

"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eAVCf.11878$eR.181@fed1read03...
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am soon to take the round out of my maple boards on jointer and through
> the thicknesser. Then I will use hand saw to cut in dog holes, and drill
> holes
> for front-to-back rods (fully threaded or end threaded).
>
> But this maple is hard rock sugar, very hard and *glassy* so I am curious
> about
> which glue to use, 202GF, 2002GF, TB-II, TB-II extend, yellow, white,
> epoxy,
> super glue (lol), school glue, school paper paste...???
>
> Should I score or rough up the sides with sand paper before gluing? Maybe
> with a toothing blade (not that I have one, of course)?

Regular yellow glue works for me.

"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Max Mahanke wrote:
> > Explain how biscuits will weaken it. I don't see how.
> >
> Any reduction in the edge surface area and perfect
> fit reduces the strength. I imagine that if you
> get a perfect match all around the insert (full
> contact), there would be no reduction in strength,
> but full contact is not likely because each
> biscuit would require 3 contact surfaces on each
> board.

I guess, but the biscuit is designed to swell by absorbing the water based
glue (that's why they don't work well with urethane glues) so I wonder if
'contact' is an really an issue. I've seen them used on MDF where they
swelled enough to ghost thru to the surface. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a
fan of biscuits except for butt joints when the extra work of a mortise and
tenon doesn't seem justified (mother-in-law projects). And because the slot
is slightly larger than the biscuit to allow for expansion, in my experience
they're not that good for allignment. I'm back to the way I was taught 100
years ago using cauls.

>Nonetheless, everything that I have read
> indicates that the strength of a perfectly flat
> contact is equal to or superior to any other
> surface with splines, dowels, biscuits, etc.

I agree, that same 100 years ago, our first project was to hand edge joint
two boards and glue them with white, not yellow glue. The next session the
shop teacher would break them over his knee to demonstrate that if they were
properly jointed, the glue joint was stronger than the surrounding wood. If
they broke on the glue joint it was, start again.

> That said, the difference in strength will never make
> any difference for most cabinet or other home type
> woodwork.

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:20:55 -0800, "Frank Drackman"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>I never use biscuits when edge joining boards. I don't have problems with
>alignment so I never saw the need.

Same here.

I use waxed cauls in the middle and c-clamps and pillow blocks on the
on the ends to ensure alignment.

Melamine scraps make great glue-proof pillow blocks

Barry

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 18:17:12 -0800, "AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Hello all,
>
>I am soon to take the round out of my maple boards on jointer and through
>the thicknesser. Then I will use hand saw to cut in dog holes, and drill holes
>for front-to-back rods (fully threaded or end threaded).
>
>But this maple is hard rock sugar, very hard and *glassy* so I am curious about
>which glue to use, 202GF, 2002GF, TB-II, TB-II extend, yellow, white, epoxy,
>super glue (lol), school glue, school paper paste...???
>
>Should I score or rough up the sides with sand paper before gluing? Maybe
>with a toothing blade (not that I have one, of course)?


I have used Gorilla glue and garden variety yellow glue. I don't see
much difference.

> You had to ask? Maple syrup.
>
>
What about good ol' yellah gloo?

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

AAvK wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am soon to take the round out of my maple boards on jointer and through
> the thicknesser. Then I will use hand saw to cut in dog holes, and drill holes
> for front-to-back rods (fully threaded or end threaded).
>
> But this maple is hard rock sugar, very hard and *glassy* so I am curious about
> which glue to use, 202GF, 2002GF, TB-II, TB-II extend, yellow, white, epoxy,
> super glue (lol), school glue, school paper paste...???
>
> Should I score or rough up the sides with sand paper before gluing? Maybe
> with a toothing blade (not that I have one, of course)?
>

Come on! you can't beat yellow carpenters glue
unless you need waterproof. The smoother the
surface and the better the fit, the stronger the
joint.

> I'm guessing you are gluing up a top for a workbench. When I glued up mine,
> I just got a small paint roller and rolled the edges with TBII. (My benchtop was 2 1/2" thick white Oak). Before the glue up, I
> prepared everything, including drilling holes through all the boards for them to be secured with allthread which ran the width of
> the boards in 5 places. No clamps were even needed, just tightened the allthread and tapped the boards flush with a deadblow.
> Been beat on for over a year now, still solid as can be. --dave
>
>
Those are some fair details, 'preciated. The roller is what I've got going, already
bought that stuff in small size.

I guess my boards will be 57" long plus outward spline except for the front two
at minus 10", 47", for a tail vise of my own design. 57" + 2" of inner jaw/apron
and so forth, then another 2" of outer jaw with dog holes, then another 3" (or so)
for the spindle ends with handles.

I will have four rods, two different lengths, outer are longer for going through
from front to the back of the tool trough ramps. Inner rods are shorter, going
from front to the inside of the tool trough.

I bought cheapo pipe clamps though, for 7 on top and 7 below. Currently I am
making clamp pads of "philipino" mahogany (practically fluff), yet to be drilled
monday night. But the rod would be good to have now, they could do the
aligning.

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

> Come on! you can't beat yellow carpenters glue
> unless you need waterproof. The smoother the surface and the better the fit, the stronger the joint.


OK thanks! But what about biscuits for aligning the boards, would that weaken it?
And, read my reply to Leon.

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

> Take your pick. I would use the most common to woodworking.
>
>
>> Should I score or rough up the sides with sand paper before gluing? Maybe
>> with a toothing blade (not that I have one, of course)?
>
> NO. The thicker the glue gap the weaker the joint. Just make sure you spread the glue out over the entire surface and don't just
> squirt out a bead and let the clamps spread the glue.
>
>
THANK YOU Leon and everyone (mostly) else!

OK, I've got a full quart of TB-II, so, for what most guys say in response, 'cept for "JT",
that should do it. I guess I should align the boards with biscuits? Or would that weaken
the whole assembly in any way?

At the adult ed. shop I go to, there are six pretty large student woodworkers table benches,
this is a high school mind you, each is perfectly square. Each has a vise (old Wiltons with
"L" shaped jaw faces) on the far right corner of each face, four students to each table.

These tops are soft white maple or euro steamed beech and atop "locker stands". They must
have been a factory product for schools and definitely made in the 60's, but some of the
edge boards have come loose, remainiong attached at the each end because of metal binding
coping strips using screws, I think they are thick extruded aluminum.

So I suppose if TB-II didn't exist back then, it must be good enough these days, to last a
lifetime of pounding, yes? But only 5 minutes open time.... aaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh!

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

> I made a counter top out of 2x2x48 strips of maple which I joined with
> biscuits and Titebond II yellow glue. It's only been a year, but it's
> worked great so far. I posted some pictures. They're in reverse
> chronological order, so start with Page 3 first.
>
> Josh
>

That's a nice piece of work, thanks. Read my reply to Leon.

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Just like a tennon in a mortise a tennon joint weakens it. :)

"Max Mahanke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Explain how biscuits will weaken it. I don't see how.
>