I'll pose my question again...a little differently this time:
What is the maximum acceptable error for a table saw fence? Mine varies
about fifteen thousandths of an inch from front to back. Is that too much,
considering that a Forrest Woodworker II blade has a total runout of around
+/- .001 inch?
The problem is not linear, so loosening the T-square bolts, aligning the
fence and re-tightening the bolts won't solve it. That's already been done.
The problem is that the face is not straight. At about 2 inches from the
front edge of the table and at approximately the centerline of the arbor, my
dial indicator reads zero. Between those points, the fence runs out
.003-.004 inch in one direction. At the ends, it varies from about .007" in
one direction to about .008" in the other.
Is this a problem? If so, how can I solve it?
The saw is old but works well and I have no plans to replace it. I'm
considering investing in an aftermarket fence but that costs a few bucks and
I want to see if the original fence is salvagable first.
Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<lEgid.37>
> I think it all depends on what you're going to do with the saw. A
> hundred and twenty-eighth of an inch is 0.0078125". It sounds as
> if your saw is prepared to deliver ±1/128" accuracy.
>
> Unless what you plan to cut is moisture proof, it'll probably
> shrink or expand more than that every time the weather changes.
> If it were me, I wouldn't worry about it until it presents an
> actual problem...
I agree with the accuracy aspect. However, I preface my question with:
I'm pretty new at this. I'm posing a question and not stating advice.
Regarding the safety aspect, what amount of runin on the back (behind
the front of the blade) of the fence will potentially cause kickback
problems?
As a suggestion, you might consider building Jim Tolpin's Ultimate
Table Saw Fence with a face that extends down the front of your
existing fence. It is in his book Table Saw Magic and also was
showcased in a Popular Woodworking (99% Sure it was PW) issue a few
months back.
Eric
Unisaw A100 wrote:
>>Perhaps a flat sanding block would work if I'm careful not to remove too
>>much material.
>
> A hard block wrapped with some sand paper used sparingly
> should/would do the trick.
I recommend a hunk of granite if you can come up with one. I've got some
counter backstop off-cuts I scrounged from the trash heap outside a stone
counter place. They're great for jobs like this. Wrap tightly with
sandpaper, let the weight of the stone do the work, and you don't have to
worry about getting things out of whack.
Unfortunately I'm almost out of these. They're surprisingly fragile, and I
ruined several of them trying to get glue off the surface. :(
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
"Chuck Hoffman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for all your replies. They've been very helpful.
>
> I haven't actually cut wood with the saw yet. I'm still in the process of
> restoring it and making all the adjustments. It was purchased used and
had
> been sitting for a long period of time so most surfaces are lightly pitted
> with rust. I appreciate the suggestions I've gotten on how to protect the
> metal after I remove the rust.
>
> I've used 220 grit sandpaper to remove the light surface rust but now I
need
> to decide how to approach the pits, the edges of which bulge a little.
> Perhaps a flat sanding block would work if I'm careful not to remove too
> much material.
>
> I ordered an owner's manual from Sears along with an arbor wrench
(probably
> didn't need that but I'm a purist) and a spare flex drive (while they're
> still available) just to have on the shelf in case the one that's on the
> machine craps out. I suspect this saw was manufactured in the 1980s and
may
> have the original flex drive.
>
> My intent is to make furniture and cabinets so I want as much precision as
I
> can get out of the old girl. I'm considering an aftermarket fence but
> finances will dictate whether or not that is an option. Making a birch
ply
> or hardwood aux fence certainly is.
>
> Thanks again for the replies...if anyone has any other suggestions please
> feel free...
>
>
I bought a Craftsman XR24/12 fence for my Delta table saw, and after some
creative mounting, I haven't looked back. It's a nice piece. Might want to
give it a look.
"Chuck Hoffman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'll pose my question again...a little differently this time:
>
> What is the maximum acceptable error for a table saw fence? Mine varies
> about fifteen thousandths of an inch from front to back. Is that too much,
> considering that a Forrest Woodworker II blade has a total runout of around
> +/- .001 inch?
>
> The problem is not linear, so loosening the T-square bolts, aligning the
> fence and re-tightening the bolts won't solve it. That's already been done.
> The problem is that the face is not straight. At about 2 inches from the
> front edge of the table and at approximately the centerline of the arbor, my
> dial indicator reads zero. Between those points, the fence runs out
> .003-.004 inch in one direction. At the ends, it varies from about .007" in
> one direction to about .008" in the other.
>
> Is this a problem? If so, how can I solve it?
>
> The saw is old but works well and I have no plans to replace it. I'm
> considering investing in an aftermarket fence but that costs a few bucks and
> I want to see if the original fence is salvagable first.
Hi Chuck,
Perhaps I'm just sloppy, but this amount of bow wouldn't concern me
too much.
You are talking about a total variation of fifteen thousandths --
about 1/64". Pretty good. And your variation between the front of
the fence and your point of cut is half of that.
Cheers,
Nate
Thanks for all your replies. They've been very helpful.
I haven't actually cut wood with the saw yet. I'm still in the process of
restoring it and making all the adjustments. It was purchased used and had
been sitting for a long period of time so most surfaces are lightly pitted
with rust. I appreciate the suggestions I've gotten on how to protect the
metal after I remove the rust.
I've used 220 grit sandpaper to remove the light surface rust but now I need
to decide how to approach the pits, the edges of which bulge a little.
Perhaps a flat sanding block would work if I'm careful not to remove too
much material.
I ordered an owner's manual from Sears along with an arbor wrench (probably
didn't need that but I'm a purist) and a spare flex drive (while they're
still available) just to have on the shelf in case the one that's on the
machine craps out. I suspect this saw was manufactured in the 1980s and may
have the original flex drive.
My intent is to make furniture and cabinets so I want as much precision as I
can get out of the old girl. I'm considering an aftermarket fence but
finances will dictate whether or not that is an option. Making a birch ply
or hardwood aux fence certainly is.
Thanks again for the replies...if anyone has any other suggestions please
feel free...
Chuck Hoffman wrote:
>I've used 220 grit sandpaper to remove the light surface rust but now I need
>to decide how to approach the pits, the edges of which bulge a little.
That doesn't sound like pitting. That sounds like someone
used the machine top for an anvil in which case yes you'll
want to file those down. They are called Vesuvius for good
reason.
>Perhaps a flat sanding block would work if I'm careful not to remove too
>much material.
A hard block wrapped with some sand paper used sparingly
should/would do the trick.
UA100
"Chuck Hoffman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'll pose my question again...a little differently this time:
>
> What is the maximum acceptable error for a table saw fence? Mine varies
> about fifteen thousandths of an inch from front to back. Is that too
much,
> considering that a Forrest Woodworker II blade has a total runout of
around
> +/- .001 inch?
>
That's within limits by all rules. If you're really worried, make yourself a
hardwood auxillary fence and you can finish it to your liking.
The other thing to check is that the variance is the same when the fence is
clamped down and when not. You *might* be able to just adjust how tightly
the fence clamps and find yourself not worrying about it further. But
honestly... that little bit just wouldn't be worth worrying about.
"Ollie" writes:
> Lew,
>
> I have been planning to do suchtype of high auxiliary fence. Could you
> elaborate the step of using the steel bolts. How do you get all the
holes
> in the right places that you don't need to recalibrate the setting every
> time you attach your new fence?
I cheat<G>.
I leave the aux fence installed all the time with one exception.
When I need to install a sacrificial fence for use with a dado, I remove the
big aux fence to mount it.
Attach the sacrificial fence with the same bolts used for the high fence.
I can make too many mistakes if I have to think too much.<G>
BTW, the only purpose of the bolts is to keep the aux fence attached to the
aluminum fence extrusion of the Unifence.
HTH
Lew
Lew,
I have been planning to do suchtype of high auxiliary fence. Could you
elaborate the step of using the steel bolts. How do you get all the holes
in the right places that you don't need to recalibrate the setting every
time you attach your new fence?
Cheers, Ollie
> Make an aux fence from some 3/4", 13 ply, Birch ply.
>
> I laminated two (2) pieces together to form a 6" high, 1-1/2" thick fence
> that is straight as an arrow.
>
> Why 6" high?
>
> Seemed like a good idea at the time, especially since I had a piece of ply
> about 13" wide.
>
> It also simplifies clamping feather boards in place to serve as a hold
> down.
>
> Why 1-1/2" thick?
>
> Simple.
>
> I'm using a Unifence.
>
> The difference between having the fence extrusion vertical and horizontal
> is
> 1-1/2".
>
> Can using existing markings on the scale without having to think too hard.
>
> BTW, make your aux fence 6"-8" longer than your existing fence.
>
> Mount your aux fence with a couple of 1/4-20, stainless steel, flat head
> bolts, nuts and washers, just snug.
>
> Use some Loctite if your worried about the bolts coming loose.
>
> After all that, get a beer and admire your work.
>
> You're done for the day.
>
> HTH
>
> Lew
"Chuck Hoffman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Snip
> The saw is old but works well and I have no plans to replace it. I'm
> considering investing in an aftermarket fence but that costs a few bucks
> and
> I want to see if the original fence is salvagable first.
>
First off, What are the results when cutting wood? If they are acceptable
continue using the fence. Not acceptable, replace the fence or face of the
fence.
Chuck Hoffman wrote:
> I'll pose my question again...a little differently this time:
>
> What is the maximum acceptable error for a table saw fence?
> Mine varies about fifteen thousandths of an inch from front to
> back. Is that too much, considering that a Forrest Woodworker
> II blade has a total runout of around +/- .001 inch?
>
> The problem is not linear, so loosening the T-square bolts,
> aligning the fence and re-tightening the bolts won't solve it.
> That's already been done. The problem is that the face is not
> straight. At about 2 inches from the front edge of the table
> and at approximately the centerline of the arbor, my dial
> indicator reads zero. Between those points, the fence runs
> out ..003-.004 inch in one direction. At the ends, it varies
> from about .007" in one direction to about .008" in the other.
>
> Is this a problem? If so, how can I solve it?
>
> The saw is old but works well and I have no plans to replace
> it. I'm considering investing in an aftermarket fence but
> that costs a few bucks and I want to see if the original fence
> is salvagable first.
Chuck...
I think it all depends on what you're going to do with the saw. A
hundred and twenty-eighth of an inch is 0.0078125". It sounds as
if your saw is prepared to deliver ±1/128" accuracy.
Unless what you plan to cut is moisture proof, it'll probably
shrink or expand more than that every time the weather changes.
If it were me, I wouldn't worry about it until it presents an
actual problem...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
"Chuck Hoffman" writes:
> I'll pose my question again...a little differently this time:
>
> What is the maximum acceptable error for a table saw fence? Mine varies
> about fifteen thousandths of an inch from front to back. Is that too
much,
> considering that a Forrest Woodworker II blade has a total runout of
around
> +/- .001 inch?
>
> The problem is not linear, so loosening the T-square bolts, aligning the
> fence and re-tightening the bolts won't solve it. That's already been
done.
> The problem is that the face is not straight.
<snip>
Why fight it?
Make an aux fence from some 3/4", 13 ply, Birch ply.
I laminated two (2) pieces together to form a 6" high, 1-1/2" thick fence
that is straight as an arrow.
Why 6" high?
Seemed like a good idea at the time, especially since I had a piece of ply
about 13" wide.
It also simplifies clamping feather boards in place to serve as a hold down.
Why 1-1/2" thick?
Simple.
I'm using a Unifence.
The difference between having the fence extrusion vertical and horizontal is
1-1/2".
Can using existing markings on the scale without having to think too hard.
BTW, make your aux fence 6"-8" longer than your existing fence.
Mount your aux fence with a couple of 1/4-20, stainless steel, flat head
bolts, nuts and washers, just snug.
Use some Loctite if your worried about the bolts coming loose.
After all that, get a beer and admire your work.
You're done for the day.
HTH
Lew
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:57:47 GMT, "Chuck Hoffman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I'll pose my question again...a little differently this time:
>
>What is the maximum acceptable error for a table saw fence? Mine varies
>about fifteen thousandths of an inch from front to back. Is that too much,
>considering that a Forrest Woodworker II blade has a total runout of around
>+/- .001 inch?
>
>The problem is not linear, so loosening the T-square bolts, aligning the
>fence and re-tightening the bolts won't solve it. That's already been done.
>The problem is that the face is not straight. At about 2 inches from the
>front edge of the table and at approximately the centerline of the arbor, my
>dial indicator reads zero. Between those points, the fence runs out
>.003-.004 inch in one direction. At the ends, it varies from about .007" in
>one direction to about .008" in the other.
>
>Is this a problem? If so, how can I solve it?
>
>The saw is old but works well and I have no plans to replace it. I'm
>considering investing in an aftermarket fence but that costs a few bucks and
>I want to see if the original fence is salvagable first.
>
Here's the prior question and response for viewers comments:
snip
>My questions are these:
>
>1): The rip fence has a total runout (as measured by my dial indicator) of
>about .015 inch, which is not linear from front to back At about 2 " from
>the front edge and at approximately the center of the blade, the indicator
>reads zero. Between those points, it varies a total of about .003-.004 inch
>in one direction. All the way from front to back, it varies from about
>.008" in one direction to about .007" in the other. Is that too much? It
>seems excessive to me. Is there anything I can do about it short of
>replacing the fence?
>
If you consider the run out spec for the blade of typically .005", it
is likely in tolerance. To improve on it, you'd have to replace the
fence. Although, spending several hundred dollars for a fence for
this old of a machine is questionable. I would suppose if you're
doing precision cutting with very low tolerance, it may be
worthwhile to you. Considering most cuts for woodworking is
usually OK within 1/16 of an inch (.0625), You're a magnitude
better than that. So for weekend projects, I think you're plenty
good.
>2) The saw sat for a long time and most of the bare surfaces are lightly
>pitted with rust. Can I clean it up with steel wool and/or hardware cloth
>without compromising accuracy?
>
I don't think you have a choice; remove the rust and prevent it from
reoccurring. I've used an air compressor driven grinder with a
copper brush on the end to remove the rust and then use
Top Cote (get this at a wood crafting store) to keep the rust
off and the top slick.
If you can't cut a grove into your fingernail with the edge of a
blade's tooth (while it isn't running of course), get the blade
sharpened or replaced. A combo blade cost to sharpen is
around $13, depending on the number of teeth. Harbor
Freight has TS blades that are good enough for the
weekend woodworker for about half that.
Good to see someone wanting to put an old codger back to
work.
Thunder