Hi Jay,
So far, no one has really answered your question...
Here in San Diego, "depending on experience", if you're just out of high
school/technical/vocational school, you can expect to receive about $360
before taxes for 40 hours. If you have a valid driver's license, no
violations and are drug free. The more experience you've got, the more
remuneration AND respect you'll receive. Most employers will ask you for
a DMV printout and some will do a "tox screen" for drugs. Don't try to
BS this one; if you drink or do drugs, the habit could cost you your
job; your fingers, hand, arm or your life at the worst! Smaller
companies will pay you less, but may offset that by permitting you to
hone your craft by letting you build things for yourself on the weekends.
If you are fortunate enough to find someone to work with, preferably a
one man shop, and the guy treats you right, stay there and learn as much
as you can. Help with the books, if he/she will permit you. At least,
look over his shoulder at how the business is run.
One day, if you are persistent and enjoy it enough, you'll open your own
place, like I did. You'll find that the more the owner[s] feel they can
trust you, the more you'll be paid, the more responsibility you'll
receive and the more self-respect you'll feel for yourself.
If you're looking to "make money" as a cabinetmaker, I'd suggest you
seek another profession. There are a lot of folks out there who are
millionaires and very unhappy people. I've personally built furniture
for prominent sports and tv personalities and when one of them says,
"Your furniture is the most beautiful thing in my house", that's a joy
that no amount of money could bring you.
When I graduated a vocational and technical high school, back in New
Jersey, in 1967, my first job paid me $3.00 an hour and no benefits,
until I was there 2 years. Thereafter, I received paid medical and
vacation {1 week}. This was a one man shop; the owner and me. That was
it. He came over from Germany and was taught by a master cabinetmaker.
One of the greatest "benefits" that I received was a great work ethic.
Just watching this guy work was worth paying him to view. I never met
anyone who loved working and being a cabinetmaker like he did. He would
work on weekends, holidays and never complained. I suspect that his wife
did, though! When I would leave to go home, he'd still be working. The
more interest I showed, the more I learned from him. He was one of the
best known cabinetmakers in New Jersey. He's in Madison. I don't think
he'll ever retire. He loves his life too much!
Now, 36 years later, I'm still a cabinet maker. The love that I have for
the craft is still with me. May you become as fortunate as me in finding
that ethic within yourself...The joys are worth the effort.
I didn't mean for this to become a civics lesson! I just wanted you to
know how finding the right employer and being an energetic employee can
quite literally change your life.
All The Best,
Alain
Jay Pique wrote:
> Anyone out there care to share what they pay their apprentices?
>
> Thanks-
> JP
Jay,
You didn't say what career you were leaving; what encouraged you to
start your new "career change" with cabinetmaking?
Alain in San Diego
Jay Pique wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:32:46 -0700, "@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net"
> <""alaininvc\"@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net"> wrote:
>
> I never met
>
>>anyone who loved working and being a cabinetmaker like he did. He would
>>work on weekends, holidays and never complained. I suspect that his wife
>>did, though! When I would leave to go home, he'd still be working. The
>>more interest I showed, the more I learned from him. He was one of the
>>best known cabinetmakers in New Jersey. He's in Madison. I don't think
>>he'll ever retire. He loves his life too much!
>>
>>Now, 36 years later, I'm still a cabinet maker. The love that I have for
>>the craft is still with me. May you become as fortunate as me in finding
>> that ethic within yourself...The joys are worth the effort.
>
>
> Many thanks to you all for your responses. I have an opportunity to
> work with a super nice guy, with what appears to me to be a lot of
> skill - but as an ex-"professional"-businessman I'm strugglying with
> the offered wage at this point. It's funny though - I worked with him
> for a couple of weeks and never once was I bored or ready to take a
> break. Contrast this with me literally falling asleep in my office/in
> meetings/in the car/in the airport on a routine basis and I start to
> get a better feel of what it would be like to truly enjoy your
> profession. Maybe I'll give it a shot.
>
> JP
> ***********************
> Plus, he's got a whole quiver full of awesome tools! (Powermatic for
> the big stuff!)
There are several Job Search websites that include a "Wage" calculator that
gives you insight about an areas pay for certain jobs.
How much are you willing to pay? Does this guy have a wife and kids and
lots of bills? Is he a good worker with aptitude? What are the benefits
you supply to him (insurance etc.)?
Answer these questions and it will help.
--
Young Carpenter
"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"
"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone out there care to share what they pay their apprentices?
>
> Thanks-
> JP
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>There are several Job Search websites that include a "Wage" calculator that
>gives you insight about an areas pay for certain jobs.
>How much are you willing to pay? Does this guy have a wife and kids and
>lots of bills? Is he a good worker with aptitude? What are the benefits
>you supply to him (insurance etc.)?
>Answer these questions and it will help.
>
>--
>Young Carpenter
Why does it make any difference whether the person is married, has kids or has
bills?
Dave Hall
Donnie Vazquez wrote:
> todd wrote:
>
>> Well, I suppose if he had a wife and kids and lots of bills he might have
>> more of an incentive to take a position at a given rate, rather than
>> holding
>> out for a higher one. Contrast that with a young, single guy doing
>> consulting work for the company I work for. He's raising his rate he
>> charges because we're taking up too much of his "free time". I'm
>> guessing
>> he puts in about 30 hrs. per week.
>>
>> todd
>
>
> So what you're saying is, pay the poor bastard the least amount you can
> possibly get away with.
>
> Here's an idea, pay him what he's worth based on his performance,
> dedication, attitude, etc. instead of trying to screw him because he's
> got finacial obligations that have to be met. You just might end up with
> someone whose an asset to your operation as opposed to just another
> pissed off worker whose only there to collect a paycheck.
Where did Todd say screw him? Sounded like he was saying that a person
with responsibilities could be a more reliable employee. He also
displays the envy/hatred that most employees have for consultants.
My last consulting job paid $115 an hour. It sounds like a great deal
of money. I only wish I could have worked for that pay 40hrs. a week, 52
weeks a year, got health benefits, paid for holidays, got a 1-4 week
paid vacation, didn't have to pay for my hotels, airfare, rental cars,
self employment taxes (based on the state I was working in and not the
state I resided in). Only got paid for productive hours and not for time
traveling or cooling my heels in departure lounges. Permanent employees
at the site were always afraid you were going to take their job. I
didn't want their job. I contracted for a specific task and when
completed, I wanted out of there. I don't know why they were worried; I
was usually there by 7am, rarely took more than a 30 minute lunch, and
didn't leave the site until I accomplished that days task.
Now back to the topic. A long time ago when the earth was green, I was
an apprentice. The shop I worked in had three people (I was one of them)
. I was a helper, gofer, cleaner, coffee maker and student. I was paid a
whopping US$1.00 an hour. At first I probably screwed up more than $40 a
week worth of stuff. Didn't get paid for more than 40 hours even if 40
hours became 60 hours. But I did learn and that is the purpose of an
apprenticeship.
In some areas an apprentice pays for its (being non gender specific)
training. At best, an apprentice can expect very meager wages and
marriage, children or car payments will not affect the wage rate.
I hope I made some sense. This has been a Black Seal evening, but not
excessively so.
Regards,
Hank
BTW Danny, Where is Sunderland? I lived in Gaithersburg (79-88) and in
Frederick (92-98). I don't recall Sunderland (might be a Black Seal
moment)
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CW wrote:
>>
>>Here's an idea, pay him what he's worth based on his performance,
>>dedication, attitude, etc. instead of trying to screw him because he's
>>got finacial obligations that have to be met.
>
>
> But that would be un American.
>
>
How so?
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Donnie Vazquez wrote:
>
> Sunderland is in Calvert county. (The peninsula bordered on the east by
> the Chesapeake Bay and on the west by the Patuxent river.)
>
> What's a Black Seal moment?
>
Black Seal moments are caused by savoring "Gosling's Black Seal" rum.
It's a black rum from Bermuda. I treat myself to a snifter or two every
once and again.
Hank
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George M. Kazaka wrote:
>
> Hello Hank I lived and had a shop in Gaith For many Years, Lived in MT Airy,
> Hagerstown, Thurmont,
> I left the east Coast to AZ 86 & 87, went back in 88 stayed for 6 years then
> came back to AZ where i have been for 9 years now
> Did you work in Gaith., What do you do. ??
>
> By The way Sunderland is in Southern Maryland
>
> George
I worked for IBM at the Washington Systems Center in G'burg. I was part
of the Critical Situation Group. Left there in '88 for Boston (actually
lived in NH). Went back to Md. in 92 and (still with IBM) and worked on
the air traffic control system for the Republic of China (lived in
Frederick). Retired in '95 and rode the Y2K golden highway as a
consultant until 1/7/2000. Formally retired from the rat race at that
time. I was fortunate to be able to that at 59. Since that time, I've
been a small scale contractor doing restoration work for the most part.
I try to stick to one man jobs because I haven't been able find
dependable help. I've turned down some really interesting jobs because I
couldn't find a helper. I only do jobs I want to do and I can work as
much as I want to. In the summer kayaking and fishing get in the way and
in the winter hunting and skiing do the same.
Regards
Hank
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> So what you're saying is, pay the poor bastard the least amount you can
> possibly get away with.
>
> Here's an idea, pay him what he's worth based on his performance,
> dedication, attitude, etc. instead of trying to screw him because he's
> got finacial obligations that have to be met. You just might end up with
> someone whose an asset to your operation as opposed to just another
> pissed off worker whose only there to collect a paycheck.
> --
> Donnie Vazquez
> Sunderland, MD
No, I'm saying to pay a rate that's mutually agreeable. The last time I
checked, there was no slavery in this country, so people are free to accept
or decline a job at the offered rate. If no one will take the job at that
rate, then the rate will increase. If people are willing to take the job at
that rate, then apparently that's the prevailing wage at that point in time.
Personally, I think it's short-sighted to pay someone the least you can
because he's always going to be looking for his next job. Bringing new
people on constantly costs companies money. I would like to think most
understand that and act in their own self-interest if nothing else. My
response was just to give an example of why someone might take someone's
family situation into account, I wasn't advocating the practice.
todd
Donnie Vazquez spaketh...
> Sounded like he was saying that a person
>> with responsibilities could be a more reliable employee.
>
> The only way to know that would be to hire and evaluate. I've known
> plenty of single guys that were very dedicated and reliable workers
> and I've known plenty of husbands/fathers that were total screwups and
> vice versa. You never know which of the two someone is until you hire
> them.
I have found that a person who needs the money is more reliable on average
than someone who doesn't need the money (part-time, college kids, people
who still live at home or are subsidized by their parents).
--
McQualude
"David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >There are several Job Search websites that include a "Wage" calculator
that
> >gives you insight about an areas pay for certain jobs.
> >How much are you willing to pay? Does this guy have a wife and kids and
> >lots of bills? Is he a good worker with aptitude? What are the benefits
> >you supply to him (insurance etc.)?
> >Answer these questions and it will help.
> >
> >--
> >Young Carpenter
>
> Why does it make any difference whether the person is married, has kids or
has
> bills?
>
> Dave Hall
Well, I suppose if he had a wife and kids and lots of bills he might have
more of an incentive to take a position at a given rate, rather than holding
out for a higher one. Contrast that with a young, single guy doing
consulting work for the company I work for. He's raising his rate he
charges because we're taking up too much of his "free time". I'm guessing
he puts in about 30 hrs. per week.
todd
>David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> >There are several Job Search websites that include a "Wage" calculator
>that
>> >gives you insight about an areas pay for certain jobs.
>> >How much are you willing to pay? Does this guy have a wife and kids and
>> >lots of bills? Is he a good worker with aptitude? What are the benefits
>> >you supply to him (insurance etc.)?
>> >Answer these questions and it will help.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Young Carpenter
>>
>> Why does it make any difference whether the person is married, has kids or
>has
>> bills?
>>
>> Dave Hall
>
>Well, I suppose if he had a wife and kids and lots of bills he might have
>more of an incentive to take a position at a given rate, rather than holding
>out for a higher one. Contrast that with a young, single guy doing
>consulting work for the company I work for. He's raising his rate he
>charges because we're taking up too much of his "free time". I'm guessing
>he puts in about 30 hrs. per week.
>
>todd
Hey, charge what the market will bear. I guess if you need his consulting and
he is good you'll pay the rate asked - if not...you'll tell'im "see ya later"
Dave Hall
todd wrote:
> Well, I suppose if he had a wife and kids and lots of bills he might have
> more of an incentive to take a position at a given rate, rather than holding
> out for a higher one. Contrast that with a young, single guy doing
> consulting work for the company I work for. He's raising his rate he
> charges because we're taking up too much of his "free time". I'm guessing
> he puts in about 30 hrs. per week.
>
> todd
So what you're saying is, pay the poor bastard the least amount you can
possibly get away with.
Here's an idea, pay him what he's worth based on his performance,
dedication, attitude, etc. instead of trying to screw him because he's
got finacial obligations that have to be met. You just might end up with
someone whose an asset to your operation as opposed to just another
pissed off worker whose only there to collect a paycheck.
--
Donnie Vazquez
Sunderland, MD
Henry St.Pierre wrote:
> Donnie Vazquez wrote:
> Where did Todd say screw him?
"he might have more of an incentive to take a position at a given rate"
My interpretation is that because he has a wife and kids to support,
offer him less money than you would the single guy because he'll be more
inclined to settle for the lower wage in order to support his family.
Sounded like he was saying that a person
> with responsibilities could be a more reliable employee.
The only way to know that would be to hire and evaluate. I've known
plenty of single guys that were very dedicated and reliable workers and
I've known plenty of husbands/fathers that were total screwups and vice
versa. You never know which of the two someone is until you hire them.
> BTW Danny, Where is Sunderland? I lived in Gaithersburg (79-88) and in
> Frederick (92-98). I don't recall Sunderland (might be a Black Seal moment)
Sunderland is in Calvert county. (The peninsula bordered on the east by
the Chesapeake Bay and on the west by the Patuxent river.)
What's a Black Seal moment?
--
Donnie Vazquez
Sunderland, MD
todd wrote:
> No, I'm saying to pay a rate that's mutually agreeable. The last time I
> checked, there was no slavery in this country, so people are free to accept
> or decline a job at the offered rate. If no one will take the job at that
> rate, then the rate will increase. If people are willing to take the job at
> that rate, then apparently that's the prevailing wage at that point in time.
> Personally, I think it's short-sighted to pay someone the least you can
> because he's always going to be looking for his next job. Bringing new
> people on constantly costs companies money. I would like to think most
> understand that and act in their own self-interest if nothing else. My
> response was just to give an example of why someone might take someone's
> family situation into account, I wasn't advocating the practice.
>
> todd
>
>
I apologize, I was under the impression that you were advocating. I just
believe that wages should be based on 2 criteria alone, market value and
experience in the field, IMO anything else should be irrelavent.
--
Donnie Vazquez
Sunderland, MD
"Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Donnie Vazquez wrote:
>
> > todd wrote:
> >
> >> Well, I suppose if he had a wife and kids and lots of bills he might
have
> >> more of an incentive to take a position at a given rate, rather than
> >> holding
> >> out for a higher one. Contrast that with a young, single guy doing
> >> consulting work for the company I work for. He's raising his rate he
> >> charges because we're taking up too much of his "free time". I'm
> >> guessing
> >> he puts in about 30 hrs. per week.
> >>
> >> todd
> >
> >
> > So what you're saying is, pay the poor bastard the least amount you can
> > possibly get away with.
> >
> > Here's an idea, pay him what he's worth based on his performance,
> > dedication, attitude, etc. instead of trying to screw him because he's
> > got finacial obligations that have to be met. You just might end up with
> > someone whose an asset to your operation as opposed to just another
> > pissed off worker whose only there to collect a paycheck.
> Where did Todd say screw him? Sounded like he was saying that a person
> with responsibilities could be a more reliable employee. He also
> displays the envy/hatred that most employees have for consultants.
> My last consulting job paid $115 an hour. It sounds like a great deal
> of money. I only wish I could have worked for that pay 40hrs. a week, 52
> weeks a year, got health benefits, paid for holidays, got a 1-4 week
> paid vacation, didn't have to pay for my hotels, airfare, rental cars,
> self employment taxes (based on the state I was working in and not the
> state I resided in). Only got paid for productive hours and not for time
> traveling or cooling my heels in departure lounges. Permanent employees
> at the site were always afraid you were going to take their job. I
> didn't want their job. I contracted for a specific task and when
> completed, I wanted out of there. I don't know why they were worried; I
> was usually there by 7am, rarely took more than a 30 minute lunch, and
> didn't leave the site until I accomplished that days task.
> Now back to the topic. A long time ago when the earth was green, I was
> an apprentice. The shop I worked in had three people (I was one of them)
> . I was a helper, gofer, cleaner, coffee maker and student. I was paid a
> whopping US$1.00 an hour. At first I probably screwed up more than $40 a
> week worth of stuff. Didn't get paid for more than 40 hours even if 40
> hours became 60 hours. But I did learn and that is the purpose of an
> apprenticeship.
> In some areas an apprentice pays for its (being non gender specific)
> training. At best, an apprentice can expect very meager wages and
> marriage, children or car payments will not affect the wage rate.
> I hope I made some sense. This has been a Black Seal evening, but not
> excessively so.
> Regards,
> Hank
> BTW Danny, Where is Sunderland? I lived in Gaithersburg (79-88) and in
> Frederick (92-98). I don't recall Sunderland (might be a Black Seal
> moment)
Hello Hank I lived and had a shop in Gaith For many Years, Lived in MT Airy,
Hagerstown, Thurmont,
I left the east Coast to AZ 86 & 87, went back in 88 stayed for 6 years then
came back to AZ where i have been for 9 years now
Did you work in Gaith., What do you do. ??
By The way Sunderland is in Southern Maryland
George
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
I didn't realize my statement would be so taken out of meaning. I'm
serious. There are alot of factors to discover. I meant what I said. Why
do you think they ask "what are your salary needs?" Single vs. attached
really makes a difference.
I know very few singles that refuse a job just because they can get it
higher somewhere else so the employer raises the price. Although
increasingly not true, the single is young, inexperienced, has no
attachments, no skills, may or may not have too many bills because they have
no concept of money. A Single is more likely to take the lower job because
he needs less and is more qualified in the lower position.
I speak from experience. Because I am single, and inexperienced employers
look at me differently from the older guys. I can survive on 16,000 a year
(though that is not preferred) A guy with wife and kids does not. There is
more to a pay package if the guy has a family because of things like
insurance, (I used to pay 18 a wk. on a certain plan a guy with a family
paid 25).
I think my original point was to indicate that there are many factors used
as decisions/bargaining chips when hiring. Even If I am unskilled in one
factor I may be valuable because of past experience.
I still feel Like I am digging a pit of misunderstanding.
--
Young Carpenter
"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"
"Young Carpenter" <Fiddleronroof*@*juno.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There are several Job Search websites that include a "Wage" calculator
that
> gives you insight about an areas pay for certain jobs.
> How much are you willing to pay? Does this guy have a wife and kids and
> lots of bills? Is he a good worker with aptitude? What are the benefits
> you supply to him (insurance etc.)?
> Answer these questions and it will help.
>
> --
> Young Carpenter
>
> "Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
> plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"
>
> "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Anyone out there care to share what they pay their apprentices?
> >
> > Thanks-
> > JP
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
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I have an upholstery apprentice. I know it's not woodworking. How I pay
him. Vary your scale to what is fair in your area and to keep his interest
up.
If he does none of the work, he gets none of the money.
Some of the work, then some of the money.
If he does all of the work, and does it well, he gets all of the money.
Perry
"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone out there care to share what they pay their apprentices?
>
> Thanks-
> JP
> "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Anyone out there care to share what they pay their apprentices?
> >
> > Thanks-
> > JP
"bentcajungirl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have an upholstery apprentice. I know it's not woodworking. How I pay
> him. Vary your scale to what is fair in your area and to keep his
interest
> up.
> If he does none of the work, he gets none of the money.
> Some of the work, then some of the money.
**************************************
> If he does all of the work, and does it well, he gets all of the money.
> Perry
>
**************************************
Whoa there. Not if he's putting wear and tear on my tools. Most, but not
all.
Cheers,
Eric
I stated in a previous post on this thread that for years I have been
telling people "I do not Work"
I happen to do something I love to do and have been very fortunate to be
able to make a living at it,
And yes I have gone bust a few times when I was younger, and once life cost
me a shop worth 250,000
and a partner cost me about 150,000 this is definately a rough business.
And I love it, I have never let a customer dictate to me and if I do nit
like the person or the job I do not take it.
And oh yes there never has been enough hours in the day and never enough
days in the week.
Everyone has to make there own minds up about what they want from life and
go after it.
For Every decision in life I have never made the wrong one, I have made many
that did not turn out the way i would have liked them to, But they were
never the wrong decision.
If you do not love the work that you do then you are not giving it your best
whether it be woodworking, Computer programming or cleaning the toilet.
Oh yeah been at it for 48 years and still going strong.
Good Luck,
George
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Christian Aufreiter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Should someone choose his favorite occupation or his hobby as his job?
>
> >
> > The pros:
> > - You enjoy your work.
> > - You are likely to be successful as you love your job.
> > - You might be satisfied, even after a long hard day.
> >
> > The cons:
> > - If you do you're hobby for a living what do you do for a hobby?
> > - You might have to take jobs you don't like in order to make money.
> > - Long working hours.
> > - You can't choose what you do and when you do it.
>
> There are people that just love the work they do and they don't consider
it
> "work". IIRC, Tom Plamann has a quote on his web page that he wishes
there
> were more hours in a day so he could do more.
>
> I like my job. I like my hobby. I like to keep them separate. My wife
> turned her hobby into a business and was very successful financially, but
> over time, it took the fun out of enjoying her hobby. She has not
returned
> to it even after 10 years.
>
> I could do woodworking for a living but the circumstances would have to be
> perfect and unrealistic. I'd have to make more money that I do now. I'd
> have to be able to set my own hours, choose my own jobs, set ridiculously
> high prices. Heck, I'm not good enough to even set low prices on really
> good furniture.
> Ed
>
>
>
"Christian Aufreiter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Should someone choose his favorite occupation or his hobby as his job?
>
> The pros:
> - You enjoy your work.
> - You are likely to be successful as you love your job.
> - You might be satisfied, even after a long hard day.
>
> The cons:
> - If you do you're hobby for a living what do you do for a hobby?
> - You might have to take jobs you don't like in order to make money.
> - Long working hours.
> - You can't choose what you do and when you do it.
There are people that just love the work they do and they don't consider it
"work". IIRC, Tom Plamann has a quote on his web page that he wishes there
were more hours in a day so he could do more.
I like my job. I like my hobby. I like to keep them separate. My wife
turned her hobby into a business and was very successful financially, but
over time, it took the fun out of enjoying her hobby. She has not returned
to it even after 10 years.
I could do woodworking for a living but the circumstances would have to be
perfect and unrealistic. I'd have to make more money that I do now. I'd
have to be able to set my own hours, choose my own jobs, set ridiculously
high prices. Heck, I'm not good enough to even set low prices on really
good furniture.
Ed
Alain---------Ditto Everything You wrote,
I Started @ 12 now 60, I do Not Work, I do something that I love to do and
have been very fortunate to be able to make a living out of it.
Your Labor figure is about right here in MEsa, Az also
George
"@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net" <""alaininvc\"@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net"> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> Hi Jay,
>
> So far, no one has really answered your question...
>
> Here in San Diego, "depending on experience", if you're just out of high
> school/technical/vocational school, you can expect to receive about $360
> before taxes for 40 hours. If you have a valid driver's license, no
> violations and are drug free. The more experience you've got, the more
> remuneration AND respect you'll receive. Most employers will ask you for
> a DMV printout and some will do a "tox screen" for drugs. Don't try to
> BS this one; if you drink or do drugs, the habit could cost you your
> job; your fingers, hand, arm or your life at the worst! Smaller
> companies will pay you less, but may offset that by permitting you to
> hone your craft by letting you build things for yourself on the weekends.
>
> If you are fortunate enough to find someone to work with, preferably a
> one man shop, and the guy treats you right, stay there and learn as much
> as you can. Help with the books, if he/she will permit you. At least,
> look over his shoulder at how the business is run.
>
> One day, if you are persistent and enjoy it enough, you'll open your own
> place, like I did. You'll find that the more the owner[s] feel they can
> trust you, the more you'll be paid, the more responsibility you'll
> receive and the more self-respect you'll feel for yourself.
>
> If you're looking to "make money" as a cabinetmaker, I'd suggest you
> seek another profession. There are a lot of folks out there who are
> millionaires and very unhappy people. I've personally built furniture
> for prominent sports and tv personalities and when one of them says,
> "Your furniture is the most beautiful thing in my house", that's a joy
> that no amount of money could bring you.
>
> When I graduated a vocational and technical high school, back in New
> Jersey, in 1967, my first job paid me $3.00 an hour and no benefits,
> until I was there 2 years. Thereafter, I received paid medical and
> vacation {1 week}. This was a one man shop; the owner and me. That was
> it. He came over from Germany and was taught by a master cabinetmaker.
>
> One of the greatest "benefits" that I received was a great work ethic.
> Just watching this guy work was worth paying him to view. I never met
> anyone who loved working and being a cabinetmaker like he did. He would
> work on weekends, holidays and never complained. I suspect that his wife
> did, though! When I would leave to go home, he'd still be working. The
> more interest I showed, the more I learned from him. He was one of the
> best known cabinetmakers in New Jersey. He's in Madison. I don't think
> he'll ever retire. He loves his life too much!
>
> Now, 36 years later, I'm still a cabinet maker. The love that I have for
> the craft is still with me. May you become as fortunate as me in finding
> that ethic within yourself...The joys are worth the effort.
>
> I didn't mean for this to become a civics lesson! I just wanted you to
> know how finding the right employer and being an energetic employee can
> quite literally change your life.
>
> All The Best,
>
> Alain
>
> Jay Pique wrote:
>
> > Anyone out there care to share what they pay their apprentices?
> >
> > Thanks-
> > JP
>
"@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net" <""alaininvc\"@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net"> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi Jay,
>
> So far, no one has really answered your question...
>
> Here in San Diego, "depending on experience", if you're just out of high
> school/technical/vocational school, you can expect to receive about $360
> before taxes for 40 hours. If you have a valid driver's license, no
> violations and are drug free. The more experience you've got, the more
> remuneration AND respect you'll receive. Most employers will ask you for
> a DMV printout and some will do a "tox screen" for drugs. Don't try to
> BS this one; if you drink or do drugs, the habit could cost you your
> job; your fingers, hand, arm or your life at the worst! Smaller
> companies will pay you less, but may offset that by permitting you to
> hone your craft by letting you build things for yourself on the weekends.
>
> If you are fortunate enough to find someone to work with, preferably a
> one man shop, and the guy treats you right, stay there and learn as much
> as you can. Help with the books, if he/she will permit you. At least,
> look over his shoulder at how the business is run.
>
> One day, if you are persistent and enjoy it enough, you'll open your own
> place, like I did. You'll find that the more the owner[s] feel they can
> trust you, the more you'll be paid, the more responsibility you'll
> receive and the more self-respect you'll feel for yourself.
>
> If you're looking to "make money" as a cabinetmaker, I'd suggest you
> seek another profession. There are a lot of folks out there who are
> millionaires and very unhappy people. I've personally built furniture
> for prominent sports and tv personalities and when one of them says,
> "Your furniture is the most beautiful thing in my house", that's a joy
> that no amount of money could bring you.
>
> When I graduated a vocational and technical high school, back in New
> Jersey, in 1967, my first job paid me $3.00 an hour and no benefits,
> until I was there 2 years. Thereafter, I received paid medical and
> vacation {1 week}. This was a one man shop; the owner and me. That was
> it. He came over from Germany and was taught by a master cabinetmaker.
>
> One of the greatest "benefits" that I received was a great work ethic.
> Just watching this guy work was worth paying him to view. I never met
> anyone who loved working and being a cabinetmaker like he did. He would
> work on weekends, holidays and never complained. I suspect that his wife
> did, though! When I would leave to go home, he'd still be working. The
> more interest I showed, the more I learned from him. He was one of the
> best known cabinetmakers in New Jersey. He's in Madison. I don't think
> he'll ever retire. He loves his life too much!
>
> Now, 36 years later, I'm still a cabinet maker. The love that I have for
> the craft is still with me. May you become as fortunate as me in finding
> that ethic within yourself...The joys are worth the effort.
>
> I didn't mean for this to become a civics lesson! I just wanted you to
> know how finding the right employer and being an energetic employee can
> quite literally change your life.
>
> All The Best,
>
> Alain
Alain, this is a wonderful reply thanks very much.
In Australia apprentices are paid a minimum wage determined by an
Industrial Award (Awarded by the Industrial Court)
>
> Jay Pique wrote:
>
> > Anyone out there care to share what they pay their apprentices?
> >
> > Thanks-
> > JP
If you were in Australia you would be paid
Highest year of schooling completed
Year 10 $189
Year 11 $227
Year 12 $274
36 hour week 4 weeks annual leave
Glenn
www.metalbashatorium.com
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:32:46 -0700, "@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net"
<""alaininvc\"@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net"> wrote:
I never met
>anyone who loved working and being a cabinetmaker like he did. He would
>work on weekends, holidays and never complained. I suspect that his wife
>did, though! When I would leave to go home, he'd still be working. The
>more interest I showed, the more I learned from him. He was one of the
>best known cabinetmakers in New Jersey. He's in Madison. I don't think
>he'll ever retire. He loves his life too much!
>
>Now, 36 years later, I'm still a cabinet maker. The love that I have for
>the craft is still with me. May you become as fortunate as me in finding
> that ethic within yourself...The joys are worth the effort.
Many thanks to you all for your responses. I have an opportunity to
work with a super nice guy, with what appears to me to be a lot of
skill - but as an ex-"professional"-businessman I'm strugglying with
the offered wage at this point. It's funny though - I worked with him
for a couple of weeks and never once was I bored or ready to take a
break. Contrast this with me literally falling asleep in my office/in
meetings/in the car/in the airport on a routine basis and I start to
get a better feel of what it would be like to truly enjoy your
profession. Maybe I'll give it a shot.
JP
***********************
Plus, he's got a whole quiver full of awesome tools! (Powermatic for
the big stuff!)
"@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net" <""alaininvc\"@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net">
wrote
Hi Alain,
thanks for this great post! I really enjoyed it!
Your story raised another question:
Should someone choose his favorite occupation or his hobby as his job?
So far, I've heard many different comments on this question and I'm
interested in your way of thinking as you are apparently happy with
your decision.
The pros:
- You enjoy your work.
- You are likely to be successful as you love your job.
- You might be satisfied, even after a long hard day.
The cons:
- If you do you're hobby for a living what do you do for a hobby?
- You might be confronted with customers and collegues colleagues who
don't appreciate your work and don't understand how much you love your
job but you depend on them financially.
- You might have to take jobs you don't like in order to make money.
- Long working hours.
- You can't choose what you do and when you do it.
Thanks for your input!
Regards,
Christian Aufreiter
How about this "career":
Try to find a job in order to make money, money, money. Do this job up
to the age of 40 or 45, quit it and start a new life. Go back to
university and study what has been interesting for a long time, travel
around the world or open up a business, for example a cabinet shop.
You could choose which work you take and which one you refuse, you can
decide if you work 5 h or 15 h a day as you are completely independent
of anyone's money.
Regards,
Christian
On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:23:29 -0700, Alain <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Jay,
>
>You didn't say what career you were leaving; what encouraged you to
>start your new "career change" with cabinetmaking?
Commercial real estate attorney turned ski bum seeks fulfilling hands
on career involving wood.
JP
This is one of those rare posts that is worth saving ... thanks!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net" <""alaininvc\"@'86 DASPAMnetscape.net"> wrote in
message
> So far, no one has really answered your question...
<snip>
> Now, 36 years later, I'm still a cabinet maker. The love that I have for
> the craft is still with me. May you become as fortunate as me in finding
> that ethic within yourself...The joys are worth the effort.
If the tools are used right, the wear and tear is minimal. And the "all the
money" stage is fairly shortlived, when they get that good, I push them out
of the nest. I stay in touch with all my protege's, and it is a pleasure to
see which ones "make it" and which ones don't.
Perry
"Eric Lund" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Anyone out there care to share what they pay their apprentices?
> > >
> > > Thanks-
> > > JP
>
> "bentcajungirl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I have an upholstery apprentice. I know it's not woodworking. How I
pay
> > him. Vary your scale to what is fair in your area and to keep his
> interest
> > up.
> > If he does none of the work, he gets none of the money.
> > Some of the work, then some of the money.
>
>
>
> **************************************
> > If he does all of the work, and does it well, he gets all of the money.
> > Perry
> >
> **************************************
>
> Whoa there. Not if he's putting wear and tear on my tools. Most, but not
> all.
>
> Cheers,
> Eric
>
>
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 13:11:32 -0400, Jay Pique <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Anyone out there care to share what they pay their apprentices?
The one "fine furniture" making shop here in Chapel Hill, NC starts
their apprentices at $8/hr.
Michael Baglio