I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
on my CNC mill.
Kind of like this:
http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
quickly.
But still, the duty cycle question is important.
So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
they take before they overheat?
i
On 2010-08-19, Pete C. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Ignoramus12820 wrote:
>>
>> I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
>> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
>> on my CNC mill.
>>
>> Kind of like this:
>>
>> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>>
>> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
>> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
>> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>>
>> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
>> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
>> quickly.
>>
>> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>>
>> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>> they take before they overheat?
>>
>> i
>
> You have compressed air available and the router will be fixed on the
> machine, so just adapt it for forced cooling air. Fabricate a manifold
> to introduce the cooling air (via a filter and a throttling valve) to
> the top intake of the router. You'll benefit both from the cooling
> action of the decompressed air, as well as a clean air source.
You know Pete, this is a good idea. It definitely needs a good filter,
but it is a great suggestion. It may be that I can find a "turbine"
for paint sprayers that would deliver more air at the pressure that I
need, as opposed to a compressor.
After a lot of thinking, etc, I have decided to bite the bullet and
bought this Bosch router:
Bosch 1617EVS 2-1/4 HP Variable-Speed Router
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004TKHV/
It is only marginally more expensive than Colt, and should be trivial
to mount in a clamp, due to its round body. The speed range of 8,000
to 25,000 RPM is also ideal for me. Soft start is also a huge plus. It
comes with a 1/2 and 1/4" collet.
i
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 11:54:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 12/27/2016 2:32 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> i use a colt and i am doing back to back 8 hr runs in mahogany. Its got one hell of a duty cycle if you ask me.
>>
>
>
>You did how many 8 hour runs?
>
>Most any decent brand tool will make up to several runs like that but
>can you do it 8/30 or 8/365?
>
>But if it continues to do this, GREAT!
Duty cycle depends on load.
If you have a 1/2 inch 3 HP router that draws 20 ampos at full load,
and you run it at about 7 amps you can likely run it constantly
without ever coming close to over-heating it. Duty cycle is generally
pretty closely related to the ability of a device to shed excessive
heat I know my 13 amp router gets plenty hot if worked hard for 15
minutes without reducing the load, yet stays comfortable to the touch
if lightly loaded for the same period of time.. My lirrle Stanley (all
metal trademaster? from the sixties) cools pretty well when rinning
with the5/8 inch? plane trimming door edges.
I have put 100's of hours on a PC 690, used for wood as well as high
density polyethelene (hdpe) with 1/2" diameter bits running 3 inches/
second (60% cut, 1/4" max depth per cut).
Wore the brushes out, replaced them from the ShopBot spares kit,
original bearings still working just fine. The dust collection does
pull the exhaust air from the collet end (the only danger I saw was
the sparks from brush end of life and fine sawdust mixing ... no fires
or explosions, thank you very much.
I tend to run the 690 on the middle of the 5 available speeds ... no
noise reduction, just adjusted everything for shavings per bit
manufacturer.
Hope this helps.
Rick
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 07:32:16 -0500, Ignoramus12820
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
>bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
>on my CNC mill.
>
>Kind of like this:
>
> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>
>When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
>this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
>duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>
>For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
>as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
>quickly.
>
>But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>
>So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>they take before they overheat?
>
The Colt is the standard router for the CNC Shark sold by Rockler.
It's one loud sucker but a good unit.
You can also get aftermarket collets for it for the purpose
http://www.precisebits.com/products/equipment/bosch_colt_collets_nuts.asp#Bosch_Colt_Collets
So it's fair to say quite a few people disagree with the fellow you
spoke with.
I haven't tried those collets but I will say that the factory collet
seems to get hot even with a short, non-taxing cut, in a way my normal
routers never do under any circumstance. I don't know if this is the
collet or the router, but it doesn't seem to hurt anything other than
my fingertips if I don't give it a bit to cool down.
-Kevin
Probably ok for continuous shallow duty. Notwithstanding, for 100
bucks how can you go wrong? You have 10x that in the holder/bracket
and that great camera. Don't sweat it; if it blows up get a PC 690,
known to run forever at medium duty levels.
***************************************************************************=
*******************************
http://patwarner.com/ Router Woodworking
*******************************************************************
On Aug 19, 5:32=A0am, Ignoramus12820 <ignoramus12...@NOSPAM.
12820.invalid> wrote:
> I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
> on my CNC mill.
>
> Kind of like this:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantMan=
ifold_1...
>
> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>
> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
> quickly.
>
> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>
> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
> they take before they overheat?
>
> i
On Aug 19, 1:00=A0pm, Ignoramus12820 <ignoramus12...@NOSPAM.
12820.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-08-19, Pete C. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ignoramus12820 wrote:
>
> >> I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
> >> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
> >> on my CNC mill.
>
> >> Kind of like this:
>
> >> =A0 =A0 =A0http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/Coolant=
Manifold_1...
>
> >> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> >> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
> >> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>
> >> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
> >> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
> >> quickly.
>
> >> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>
> >> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
> >> they take before they overheat?
>
> >> i
>
> > You have compressed air available and the router will be fixed on the
> > machine, so just adapt it for forced cooling air. Fabricate a manifold
> > to introduce the cooling air (via a filter and a throttling valve) to
> > the top intake of the router. You'll benefit both from the cooling
> > action of the decompressed air, as well as a clean air source.
>
> You know Pete, this is a good idea. It definitely needs a good filter,
> but it is a great suggestion. It may be that I can find a "turbine"
> for paint sprayers that would deliver more air at the pressure that I
> need, as opposed to a compressor.
>
> After a lot of thinking, etc, I have decided to bite the bullet and
> bought this Bosch router:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Bosch 1617EVS 2-1/4 HP Variable-Speed Router
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004TKHV/
>
> It is only marginally more expensive than Colt, and should be trivial
> to mount in a clamp, due to its round body. The speed range of 8,000
> to 25,000 RPM is also ideal for me. Soft start is also a huge plus. It
> comes with a 1/2 and 1/4" collet.
>
> i
I know of a few CNC's (General Gorilla) that use those 2.25HP (1/2"
shank!!!!) Bosch's in school settings. Aside from the noise, they're
holding up very well.
Shopbot also sells a 3.25 HP universal motor PC router body that also
seems to run quite well.... but they do offer rebuild-kits matter of
factly.
I run an Elte 3HP 3phase spindle off a VFD and it runs quietly and
full power at any speed....and cool.
Ignoramus12820 wrote:
>
> I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
> on my CNC mill.
>
> Kind of like this:
>
> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>
> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>
> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
> quickly.
>
> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>
> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
> they take before they overheat?
>
> i
You have compressed air available and the router will be fixed on the
machine, so just adapt it for forced cooling air. Fabricate a manifold
to introduce the cooling air (via a filter and a throttling valve) to
the top intake of the router. You'll benefit both from the cooling
action of the decompressed air, as well as a clean air source.
Ignoramus12820 wrote:
> On 2010-08-19, Mike Henry <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
>>> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
>>> on my CNC mill.
>>>
>>> Kind of like this:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>>>
>>> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
>>> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
>>> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>>>
>>> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
>>> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
>>> quickly.
>>>
>>> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>>>
>>> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>>> they take before they overheat?
>>>
>> Why not use a Speeder? One of those BP doo-hickeys that uses gears and
>> belts to triple the spindle speed.
>>
>>
>
> I did not find any speeder that would cost what I can pay and would
> fit my spindle in some way (NMTB 30 or straight shank). Otherwise a
> speeder would be nice.
>
> i
>
How about this one
http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Speed_Increaser.html . I Don't
know what it would cost to ship to the US or if any US firms stock it
already.
Ignoramus12820 wrote:
>
> On 2010-08-19, CW <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > "Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
> >> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
> >> on my CNC mill.
> >>
> >> Kind of like this:
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
> >>
> >> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> >> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
> >> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
> >>
> >> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
> >> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
> >> quickly.
> >>
> >> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
> >>
> >> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
> >> they take before they overheat?
> >>
> >
> >
> > I used to work in a place that used router tables to trim plastic. The
> > routers were working continuously for up to three hours at a time. Only
> > thing they ever needed was normal bearing replacement. Porter Cable 690
> > routers.
>
> Good to know. I will use a Bosch router that can be easily mounted
> inside a round clamp.
The PC 690 routers (and most other brands) are also round bodied.
CW wrote:
> "David Billington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> How about this one
>> http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Speed_Increaser.html . I Don't know
>> what it would cost to ship to the US or if any US firms stock it already.
>>
>
> I see the router setup to be a better way to go. The referenced speeder is
> rated for only 9000 rpm output. Most newer CNC mills will do 10000 stock.
> Another is that is a kit.
>
>
>
Valid comments but I posted the information as an affordable 3x speeder
was mentioned and IIRC Iggys mill has a 2.5krpm max spindle. It was put
forward for consideration and any decision would then be at the
discretion of the purchaser who has the choice of investigating the
suitability of the kit further for themselves.
Personally I'd be tempted to try the router route as I already have a
variable speed router which can also double as an electric die grinder.
As the other router mentioned it has a cylindrical mounting boss
simplifying the mounting aspect.
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 07:32:16 -0500, Ignoramus12820 wrote:
> I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail on
> my CNC mill.
>
> Kind of like this:
>
> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/
CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>
> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the duty
> cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>
> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay, as
> the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
> quickly.
>
> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>
> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could they
> take before they overheat?
>
> i
Without reading this whole thread I will throw in my 2 cents worth. I am
more familiar with woodworking and routers than with metalworking. I
have had routers in router tables that literally ran continuous for 8 to
10 hours per day, day in and day out, some carrying fairly heavy bits.
They do have cooling fans, and in most router tables they are upside down
so they must have fans to keep them from filling up with chips.
Recommendations would be DeWalt, Porter Cable, Bosch, some of the older
commercial Black and Decker units, or, if you can find one, a Stanley
round top router. I prefer the Stanley because they are easy to mount,
all metal, have a very strong bearing setup, and tend to be quieter than
most because they turn slower (usually around 18,000 rpm instead of
25,000) and have such a strong bearing mount.
"Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
> on my CNC mill.
>
> Kind of like this:
>
>
> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>
> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>
> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
> quickly.
>
> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>
> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
> they take before they overheat?
>
> i
We use Hitachi 3hp plunge routers. They often run 8 hours a day. They last
6 months and then I throw them away. We used to get them rebuilt but the
cost curve says "pitch 'em!". Usually, the bearings go first but that's not
all...everything just wears out! I have boxes and boxes of all the
accoutrements that come with these that never get used. I just can't pitch
them. I more than get my money out of them!
For your use, you're gold!
"Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
> on my CNC mill.
>
> Kind of like this:
>
>
> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>
> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>
> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
> quickly.
>
> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>
> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
> they take before they overheat?
>
I used to work in a place that used router tables to trim plastic. The
routers were working continuously for up to three hours at a time. Only
thing they ever needed was normal bearing replacement. Porter Cable 690
routers.
On Aug 19, 8:32=A0am, Ignoramus12820 <ignoramus12...@NOSPAM.
12820.invalid> wrote:
> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
> quickly.
>
I would guess that 4 minutes on and 6 minutes off would be no
problem. Not familar with the Bosch but I think all routers have a
cooling fan.
Dan
"Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
> on my CNC mill.
>
> Kind of like this:
>
>
> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>
> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>
> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
> quickly.
>
> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>
> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
> they take before they overheat?
>
> i
Should only cost you about $100 to find out, buy one and see how it holds
up.
On 2010-08-19, CW <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "David Billington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>> How about this one
>> http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Speed_Increaser.html . I Don't know
>> what it would cost to ship to the US or if any US firms stock it already.
>
> I see the router setup to be a better way to go. The referenced speeder is
> rated for only 9000 rpm output. Most newer CNC mills will do 10000 stock.
> Another is that is a kit.
>
>
Seems like some kind of a homemade contraption to me.
The router would go from 8,000 to 25,000 RPM.
i
On 2010-08-19, CW <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
>> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
>> on my CNC mill.
>>
>> Kind of like this:
>>
>>
>> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>>
>> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
>> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
>> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>>
>> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
>> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
>> quickly.
>>
>> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>>
>> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>> they take before they overheat?
>>
>
>
> I used to work in a place that used router tables to trim plastic. The
> routers were working continuously for up to three hours at a time. Only
> thing they ever needed was normal bearing replacement. Porter Cable 690
> routers.
Good to know. I will use a Bosch router that can be easily mounted
inside a round clamp.
i
On 2010-08-19, Steve Lusardi <[email protected]> wrote:
> Iggy,
> This maybe a bit off-topic, but NMTB30 is very popular in Europe, as opposed to R8, which isn't. It appears that it is exactly
> opposite in the states. You may find tooling hard to find and expensive there. If shipping is an issue, contact me off-line
> perhaps I can help.
Steve, it is not that hard to find, but I could not find any decent
affordable high speed spindle in NMTB30.
i
> Steve
>
> "Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> On 2010-08-19, Mike Henry <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
>>>> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
>>>> on my CNC mill.
>>>>
>>>> Kind of like this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>>>>
>>>> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
>>>> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
>>>> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>>>>
>>>> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
>>>> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
>>>> quickly.
>>>>
>>>> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>>>>
>>>> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>>>> they take before they overheat?
>>>
>>> Why not use a Speeder? One of those BP doo-hickeys that uses gears and
>>> belts to triple the spindle speed.
>>>
>>
>> I did not find any speeder that would cost what I can pay and would
>> fit my spindle in some way (NMTB 30 or straight shank). Otherwise a
>> speeder would be nice.
>>
>> i
>
"David Billington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> How about this one
> http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Speed_Increaser.html . I Don't know
> what it would cost to ship to the US or if any US firms stock it already.
I see the router setup to be a better way to go. The referenced speeder is
rated for only 9000 rpm output. Most newer CNC mills will do 10000 stock.
Another is that is a kit.
On 2010-08-19, Ecnerwal <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ignoramus12820 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
>> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
>> on my CNC mill.
> ...
>> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
>> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
>> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>
> Somebody is talking out of somebody's rear orifice. While you're not
> generally going to find one at the business end of a $100,000-$300,000
> commercial CNC machine, where a $5000 spindle motor is not a big
> expense, tens of thousands of $2,000-$15,000 homebuilt or kitbuilt CNC
> routers run them with no particular problems.
Yes. I was thinking about it as I was walking to work.
I realized that, say, 30,000 RPM is not that big of a deal for a
small spindle on this Bosch Colt. It is not like it is a 2.5"
Bridgeport spindle with huge bearings and huge linear speeds. The
spindle bearings are probably 3/4" ID or there abouts.
The manual on it calls for a factory rebuild (read bearings
replacement) every 300 to 400 hours.
If I can get 300, or even 200, hours out of it, this is all I really
need. It is a lot of hours for a hobby use. Considering that a very
fast head like this can complete projects very quickly due to high
feedrates possible, 200 hours could complete a lot of projects.
Similarly, because it works so fast, it would not need to stay running
for very long, before it completes the assigned task.
I thought for a moment yesterday that I will use my big 2.5 HP router,
but I am backing out of this, it is a little too big and there are
complications with overhang, etc that would impact accuracy too much.
Plus it is inconvenient to mount.
This Bosch Colt looks very appealing, because of ease of mounting,
reasonable power, etc.
I think that I could use it with a 10A solid state relay, because,
IIRC, it has a soft start.
>> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>> they take before they overheat?
>
> Other than being LOUD due to the universal motors, quality wood routers
> can be used rather extensively. If you can arrange to feed it clean air
> (possibly force-feeding it - ie, put a duct and blower on it), so much
> the better. If you actually service/replace the bearings per schedule
> (IIRC Porter-Cable specs 100 hours on the 690) better yet.
Here it is 300 hours. Not really a problem.
> CNC wood router folks have used them for quite a while - the folks with
> money do like to step up to much more expensive and powerful (and
> quieter) spindle motors, but in bang/buck the router does fine.
Just what I hoped to hear.
> I've run mine for hours at a stretch, and so have a lot of other
> folks with CNC routers. Even if you simply run it til it dies and
> replace, the bang/buck is good, but servicing it properly the
> bang/buck should be better.
What about something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1617EVS-2-1-Variable-Speed-Router/dp/B00004TKHV/
I think that it can be taken out of the base and then mounted in some
kind of a round clamp. I have a CNC mill, so I can make an aluminum
clamp that fits perfectly.
> Unless you have a specific need for the small size, pick a normal router
> over a laminate trimmer/palm router/whatever.
>
> A 690 mounts nicely to a chunk of channel with a big hose clamp, by the
> way. Just take the base off.
690 is something like this, right:
http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690LR-Amp-Fixed-Base-Router/dp/B00005QEVQ
That could also work. Any comparison with the Bosch one?
> Crapsman, B&D need not apply...
yep
> Get good, comfortable hearing protection - you'll need it.
>
> In (non-cnc) router table service, it's not uncommon to switch one on
> and run hundreds of feet of molding though a router, so running them for
> hours at a stretch is not some oddity that only CNC router folks do. The
> cooling air on a 690 makes one heck of a breeze...
Well, that is very nice to know right from the horse's mouth, so to
speak.
thanks
i
And remember to blow out the fan area and keep it clean -
more air flow and less heat.
Going around corners might be a time to unload it cool it off
and attack the next side. If slots ... between cuts.
Sometimes light turning cools faster than sitting off.
Martin
On 12/29/2016 4:22 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 16:35:11 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 11:54:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/27/2016 2:32 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> i use a colt and i am doing back to back 8 hr runs in mahogany. Its got one hell of a duty cycle if you ask me.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You did how many 8 hour runs?
>>>
>>> Most any decent brand tool will make up to several runs like that but
>>> can you do it 8/30 or 8/365?
>>>
>>> But if it continues to do this, GREAT!
>> Duty cycle depends on load.
>>
>> If you have a 1/2 inch 3 HP router that draws 20 ampos at full load,
>> and you run it at about 7 amps you can likely run it constantly
>> without ever coming close to over-heating it. Duty cycle is generally
>> pretty closely related to the ability of a device to shed excessive
>> heat I know my 13 amp router gets plenty hot if worked hard for 15
>> minutes without reducing the load, yet stays comfortable to the touch
>> if lightly loaded for the same period of time.. My lirrle Stanley (all
>> metal trademaster? from the sixties) cools pretty well when rinning
>> with the5/8 inch? plane trimming door edges.
>
> Yes, heat is always the enemy. Unless he's taking really small bites
> of the Mahogany (e.g. CNC light engraving), I'm surprised he can even
> *hold* the Colt after eight hours.
>
In article <[email protected]>,
Ignoramus12820 <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
> on my CNC mill.
...
> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
Somebody is talking out of somebody's rear orifice. While you're not
generally going to find one at the business end of a $100,000-$300,000
commercial CNC machine, where a $5000 spindle motor is not a big
expense, tens of thousands of $2,000-$15,000 homebuilt or kitbuilt CNC
routers run them with no particular problems.
> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
> they take before they overheat?
Other than being LOUD due to the universal motors, quality wood routers
can be used rather extensively. If you can arrange to feed it clean air
(possibly force-feeding it - ie, put a duct and blower on it), so much
the better. If you actually service/replace the bearings per schedule
(IIRC Porter-Cable specs 100 hours on the 690) better yet.
CNC wood router folks have used them for quite a while - the folks with
money do like to step up to much more expensive and powerful (and
quieter) spindle motors, but in bang/buck the router does fine. I've run
mine for hours at a stretch, and so have a lot of other folks with CNC
routers. Even if you simply run it til it dies and replace, the
bang/buck is good, but servicing it properly the bang/buck should be
better.
Unless you have a specific need for the small size, pick a normal router
over a laminate trimmer/palm router/whatever.
A 690 mounts nicely to a chunk of channel with a big hose clamp, by the
way. Just take the base off.
Crapsman, B&D need not apply...
Get good, comfortable hearing protection - you'll need it.
In (non-cnc) router table service, it's not uncommon to switch one on
and run hundreds of feet of molding though a router, so running them for
hours at a stretch is not some oddity that only CNC router folks do. The
cooling air on a 690 makes one heck of a breeze...
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
On 2010-08-20, Buerste <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Any idea what spindle runout you get on those while they are
>> relatively new?
>
> Sorry, that was never a concern. We rout a 2" x 1/8" x 2-1/2" groove in
> Beech. It's not to critical, just good enough to index a long handle. What
> runout are you looking for?
I am not sure, the less the better, 0.003-4 worst case, hopefully
better. It would be OK for engraving, but not for precision work. I
really do not know what I will be dealing with.
i
On 2010-08-19, Mike Henry <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
>> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
>> on my CNC mill.
>>
>> Kind of like this:
>>
>>
>> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>>
>> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
>> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
>> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>>
>> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
>> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
>> quickly.
>>
>> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>>
>> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>> they take before they overheat?
>
> Why not use a Speeder? One of those BP doo-hickeys that uses gears and
> belts to triple the spindle speed.
>
I did not find any speeder that would cost what I can pay and would
fit my spindle in some way (NMTB 30 or straight shank). Otherwise a
speeder would be nice.
i
Ignoramus12820 <[email protected]> fired this volley in
news:[email protected]:
> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
I know that the head on one of my vendors' CNC router - by itself - cost
over $700.00. It is rated for 5000 hrs continuous duty at 45KRPM before
requiring a bearing overhaul -- which is a factory-only job.
They claim it's good for five re-builds, minimum, if the chuck is never
crashed into the work.
This "head" isn't a router in the conventional sense. It's just a motor
with mount pads and a collet-style chuck on a fairly short shaft.
Nothin' much to look at. But it's virtually silent running at 40K under
no load. It runs on a dedicated speed controller, and is purportedly a
multi-phase motor. The controller was extra $$, and misbehaved badly for
speed regulation and control until swapped out twice by the factory rep.
Don't remember the brand, but it's the one the ShopSabre folks recommend
for the machine.
LLoyd
Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Sometimes light turning cools faster than sitting off.
If there's a fan, that will always be the case.
I recall some years ago being at the races, and a red
flag came out after an accident, which stopped everyone,
except for one guy who took his car down to the far end
of the track and slowly drove in circles for 20 minutes.
Turned out he was overheating, and needed to keep the
fan running and water moving thru the engine to avoid
a meltdown.
John
On 12/27/2016 2:32 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> i use a colt and i am doing back to back 8 hr runs in mahogany. Its got one hell of a duty cycle if you ask me.
>
You did how many 8 hour runs?
Most any decent brand tool will make up to several runs like that but
can you do it 8/30 or 8/365?
But if it continues to do this, GREAT!
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 15:19:45 -0500, Ignoramus12820
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2010-08-19, Steve Lusardi <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Iggy,
>> This maybe a bit off-topic, but NMTB30 is very popular in Europe, as opposed to R8, which isn't. It appears that it is exactly
>> opposite in the states. You may find tooling hard to find and expensive there. If shipping is an issue, contact me off-line
>> perhaps I can help.
>
>Steve, it is not that hard to find, but I could not find any decent
>affordable high speed spindle in NMTB30.
>
>i
Why don't you aks Steve to look for a spindle speeder? Very nice way
to go.
Karl
Ignoramus12820 wrote:
> I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
> on my CNC mill.
>
> Kind of like this:
>
>
> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>
> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>
> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
> quickly.
>
> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>
> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
> they take before they overheat?
>
> i
I wouldn't worry about it . That thing has a fan , and it'll be blowing
chips out of it's own way . If you want something with more oomph , check
out the Porter Cable line of 1/2" capacity routers - they go up to 2+HP and
have a motor housing that's designed to be clamped in a base or fixture .
Just make sure you don't get coolant up inside the motor , that can get
colorful ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 16:35:11 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 11:54:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>>On 12/27/2016 2:32 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> i use a colt and i am doing back to back 8 hr runs in mahogany. Its got one hell of a duty cycle if you ask me.
>>>
>>
>>
>>You did how many 8 hour runs?
>>
>>Most any decent brand tool will make up to several runs like that but
>>can you do it 8/30 or 8/365?
>>
>>But if it continues to do this, GREAT!
> Duty cycle depends on load.
>
>If you have a 1/2 inch 3 HP router that draws 20 ampos at full load,
>and you run it at about 7 amps you can likely run it constantly
>without ever coming close to over-heating it. Duty cycle is generally
>pretty closely related to the ability of a device to shed excessive
>heat I know my 13 amp router gets plenty hot if worked hard for 15
>minutes without reducing the load, yet stays comfortable to the touch
>if lightly loaded for the same period of time.. My lirrle Stanley (all
>metal trademaster? from the sixties) cools pretty well when rinning
>with the5/8 inch? plane trimming door edges.
Yes, heat is always the enemy. Unless he's taking really small bites
of the Mahogany (e.g. CNC light engraving), I'm surprised he can even
*hold* the Colt after eight hours.
"Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
> on my CNC mill.
>
> Kind of like this:
>
>
> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>
> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>
> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
> quickly.
>
> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>
> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
> they take before they overheat?
Why not use a Speeder? One of those BP doo-hickeys that uses gears and
belts to triple the spindle speed.
Iggy,
This maybe a bit off-topic, but NMTB30 is very popular in Europe, as opposed to R8, which isn't. It appears that it is exactly
opposite in the states. You may find tooling hard to find and expensive there. If shipping is an issue, contact me off-line
perhaps I can help.
Steve
"Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On 2010-08-19, Mike Henry <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> "Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
>>> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
>>> on my CNC mill.
>>>
>>> Kind of like this:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>>>
>>> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
>>> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
>>> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>>>
>>> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
>>> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
>>> quickly.
>>>
>>> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>>>
>>> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>>> they take before they overheat?
>>
>> Why not use a Speeder? One of those BP doo-hickeys that uses gears and
>> belts to triple the spindle speed.
>>
>
> I did not find any speeder that would cost what I can pay and would
> fit my spindle in some way (NMTB 30 or straight shank). Otherwise a
> speeder would be nice.
>
> i
On 8/19/2010 7:20 AM, Ignoramus12820 wrote:
(...)
> 690 is something like this, right:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690LR-Amp-Fixed-Base-Router/dp/B00005QEVQ
Careful with Amazon.com, Iggy.
TRS Recovery Services, Inc. (an extortion ring) has their hooks into them big time.
Lots of customers have suffered.
Most popular scam is for Amazon to mis-key a customer's bank account
information. The transaction fails and is sold to TRS who
makes the guiltless customer's life Hell until he or she pays TRS
the amount of the transaction, plus an extortion fee.
It gets worse from there.
http://www.amazonsellercommunity.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=187312&tstart=0&start=0
http://www.collectorsexposed.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2537-trs-recovery-servicestelecheck/
http://complaintwire.org/Complaint.aspx/pxToDCxXQgCa8wjJ2iOEew
http://complaintwire.org/Complaint.aspx/WKDjJ0GiEQDzHgjL9VGhRQ
http://www.complaints.com/directory/2006/march/6/24.htm
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/collection-agencies/trsrecovery-services-1.html
It happened to me.
Run Away!
--Winston
"Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2010-08-19, Mike Henry <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> "Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
>>> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
>>> on my CNC mill.
>>>
>>> Kind of like this:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>>>
>>> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
>>> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
>>> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>>>
>>> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
>>> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
>>> quickly.
>>>
>>> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>>>
>>> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>>> they take before they overheat?
>>
>> Why not use a Speeder? One of those BP doo-hickeys that uses gears and
>> belts to triple the spindle speed.
>>
>
> I did not find any speeder that would cost what I can pay and would
> fit my spindle in some way (NMTB 30 or straight shank). Otherwise a
> speeder would be nice.
>
> i
Here are some options:
http://www.tormach.com/Product_PCNC_acc_spindle.html
I've used the Proxxon die grinder and it worked pretty well for me in light
use. The Kress router should be more robust. The Speeder may work for you
as it is supposed to fit BP-type spindles, though you probably want more
speed than it can give you.
On 2010-08-19, Buerste <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
>> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
>> on my CNC mill.
>>
>> Kind of like this:
>>
>>
>> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>>
>> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
>> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
>> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>>
>> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
>> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
>> quickly.
>>
>> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>>
>> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>> they take before they overheat?
>>
>> i
>
> We use Hitachi 3hp plunge routers. They often run 8 hours a day. They last
> 6 months and then I throw them away. We used to get them rebuilt but the
> cost curve says "pitch 'em!". Usually, the bearings go first but that's not
> all...everything just wears out! I have boxes and boxes of all the
> accoutrements that come with these that never get used. I just can't pitch
> them. I more than get my money out of them!
>
> For your use, you're gold!
>
>
Any idea what spindle runout you get on those while they are
relatively new?
"Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2010-08-19, Buerste <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> "Ignoramus12820" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>I am considering to use a Bosch Colt wood "palm router" (or even a
>>> bigger wood router) as a high speed spindle for milling small detail
>>> on my CNC mill.
>>>
>>> Kind of like this:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Tools/CoolantManifold_1.jpg
>>>
>>> When I talked about it somewhere, somebody said that it cannot survive
>>> this for long due to poor cooling, and that it will never have the
>>> duty cycle as needed on a CNC machine.
>>>
>>> For me, say, 4 minutes on/6 minutes off would probably work out okay,
>>> as the speed of the cutter enables me to complete typical milling jobs
>>> quickly.
>>>
>>> But still, the duty cycle question is important.
>>>
>>> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>>> they take before they overheat?
>>>
>>> i
>>
>> We use Hitachi 3hp plunge routers. They often run 8 hours a day. They
>> last
>> 6 months and then I throw them away. We used to get them rebuilt but the
>> cost curve says "pitch 'em!". Usually, the bearings go first but that's
>> not
>> all...everything just wears out! I have boxes and boxes of all the
>> accoutrements that come with these that never get used. I just can't
>> pitch
>> them. I more than get my money out of them!
>>
>> For your use, you're gold!
>>
>>
>
> Any idea what spindle runout you get on those while they are
> relatively new?
Sorry, that was never a concern. We rout a 2" x 1/8" x 2-1/2" groove in
Beech. It's not to critical, just good enough to index a long handle. What
runout are you looking for?
On 2010-08-19, Ignoramus12820 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2010-08-19, Mike Henry <[email protected]> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> Why not use a Speeder? One of those BP doo-hickeys that uses gears and
>> belts to triple the spindle speed.
> I did not find any speeder that would cost what I can pay and would
> fit my spindle in some way (NMTB 30 or straight shank). Otherwise a
> speeder would be nice.
I've got a speeder (belt driven only) which is straight shank.
I got it from eBay some years ago. But I'm holding on to it for my
Bridgeport.
Just letting you know that they exist -- and once you know what
you are looking for (mine is in a wooden box with a sliding top, FWIW)
your scrounging skills should turn one up.
The main thing when it is mounted is that you have to tell the
CNC to not fully retract the spindle as it clamps to the OD of the
quill.
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
On 2010-08-19, David Billington <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ignoramus12820 wrote:
>> On 2010-08-19, Mike Henry <[email protected]> wrote:
[ ... ]
>>> Why not use a Speeder? One of those BP doo-hickeys that uses gears and
>>> belts to triple the spindle speed.
[ ... ]
>> I did not find any speeder that would cost what I can pay and would
>> fit my spindle in some way (NMTB 30 or straight shank). Otherwise a
>> speeder would be nice.
[ ... ]
> How about this one
> http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Speed_Increaser.html . I Don't
> know what it would cost to ship to the US or if any US firms stock it
> already.
That one looks *nice*! I would like to see the top end of the
anti-rotation strap to see how it is locked to the quill to determine
how much of Z-axis travel would be swallowed up.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
On 2010-08-19, Ecnerwal <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Ignoramus12820 <[email protected]> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> So: what do you think is the duty cycle on these and how much could
>> they take before they overheat?
>
> Other than being LOUD due to the universal motors, quality wood routers
> can be used rather extensively. If you can arrange to feed it clean air
> (possibly force-feeding it - ie, put a duct and blower on it), so much
> the better. If you actually service/replace the bearings per schedule
> (IIRC Porter-Cable specs 100 hours on the 690) better yet.
[ ... ]
> Unless you have a specific need for the small size, pick a normal router
> over a laminate trimmer/palm router/whatever.
>
> A 690 mounts nicely to a chunk of channel with a big hose clamp, by the
> way. Just take the base off.
>
> Crapsman, B&D need not apply...
Well ... that may depend on how old it is. I have a Craftsman
router from about 1976 which would clamp nicely to some channel (with
clearance milled for the larger air intake at the top) which would
probably do quite well for the task.
But more recent ones are certainly not as durable.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---