Background:
Bookcases, 3/4" ply. Shelves fit into 3/4" x 1/4" dadoes in the
uprights. There are 20 "shelves". (some are tops and bottoms). 12 of
those will be finished on both sides. That's 52 pieces of tape, by my
count. Swingman has suggested a pizza cutter to make accurate edges. I
could almost imagine doing that, but I now plan to do all of the
"inside" finishing pre-assembly, and my available time is limited to
(fractions of) weekends. Thus the tape could be on for weeks, which is
apparently problematic.
I've been mulling this over, and this is what I've come up with so far
(the usual caveats about my skill level apply):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/8378418997/in/photostream/lightbox/
(use the right arrow to see two detail photos of the "jig")
I quickly screwed together two potential "guard" pieces to cover the
last 1/4" of each shelf. I set the overhang by resting the jig in one
of the actual dadoes. I figure I could clamp one side down
"permanently" and either clamp and unclamp the other side for each
piece, or possibly just hold it down manually. I might already have
tested it but ran out of time last night.
I see some possible flaws in this plan. Upon looking at it, I wonder
if stain and finish would build up on the edges of the thin plywood of
the jig, or even seep underneath, "contaminating" the next piece to be
inserted. This could conceivably be countered by covering the business
end of the jig with shiny packing tape, or something else. I suppose I
could use tape and wipe the jig ends off after each shelf face is
done.
Then there is the question of the second side of the shelves. I could
of course add a bottom "face" to the jigs to hold the shelf above the
work surface, holding it of course by only the last 1/4".
So? The makings of a good idea? Or fatally flawed?
Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/15/2013 1:08 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 1/15/2013 11:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>
>>> Now I think I'll have to buy the pizza cutter.
>>
>> Stay away from the Festool model and you'll be ahead of the game.
>
> No smiley face?
>
>> You do have to be careful, depending upon the stain used, as trying to
>> touch up/blend unstained areas on a previously stained piece can add to
>> the amount of time involved in the project.
>>
>> I've found this to be particularly true of lighter colored gel stains.
>
> It's a pretty dark stain, and not a gel. (Minwax Wood Finish: Gunstock).
> But I will be careful nonetheless. You mentioned that the "blue" tape can
> be a problem if left on too long. Is there some other tape you prefer?
> I've seen various kinds of artist's tape (the kind you used to see a lot
> on mixing consoles to label the channels), but the adhesive on those
> might actually be too weak.
The green Frog brand tape seals pretty darn good with most every thing
except the very thin dyes
I masked off solid white oak already attached to white oak plywood and
stained the solid wood with a gel stain and had absolutely no bleed. Then
I used a dye stain and had poor results with wicking.
On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 04:16:16 -0800 (PST), Greg Guarino
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Background:
>
>Bookcases, 3/4" ply. Shelves fit into 3/4" x 1/4" dadoes in the
>uprights. There are 20 "shelves". (some are tops and bottoms). 12 of
>those will be finished on both sides. That's 52 pieces of tape, by my
>count. Swingman has suggested a pizza cutter to make accurate edges. I
>could almost imagine doing that, but I now plan to do all of the
>"inside" finishing pre-assembly, and my available time is limited to
>(fractions of) weekends. Thus the tape could be on for weeks, which is
>apparently problematic.
>
>I've been mulling this over, and this is what I've come up with so far
>(the usual caveats about my skill level apply):
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/8378418997/in/photostream/lightbox/
>(use the right arrow to see two detail photos of the "jig")
>
>I quickly screwed together two potential "guard" pieces to cover the
>last 1/4" of each shelf. I set the overhang by resting the jig in one
>of the actual dadoes. I figure I could clamp one side down
>"permanently" and either clamp and unclamp the other side for each
>piece, or possibly just hold it down manually. I might already have
>tested it but ran out of time last night.
>
>I see some possible flaws in this plan. Upon looking at it, I wonder
>if stain and finish would build up on the edges of the thin plywood of
>the jig, or even seep underneath, "contaminating" the next piece to be
>inserted. This could conceivably be countered by covering the business
>end of the jig with shiny packing tape, or something else. I suppose I
>could use tape and wipe the jig ends off after each shelf face is
>done.
>
>Then there is the question of the second side of the shelves. I could
>of course add a bottom "face" to the jigs to hold the shelf above the
>work surface, holding it of course by only the last 1/4".
>
>So? The makings of a good idea? Or fatally flawed?
What if you combined your idea with the tape?
First, mask off the area of the shelf that would be inside the dado
and some of the area not inside the dado. The alignment of the tape
need not be critical at this point.
Then place the masked shelf in your "guard" and cut the excess tape
with a knife. Then the alignment would be as perfect as your guard
and you wouldn't have to be concerned with possible build up for each
successive shelf.
On 1/15/2013 2:14 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 1/15/2013 1:08 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 1/15/2013 11:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>
>>> Now I think I'll have to buy the pizza cutter.
>>
>> Stay away from the Festool model and you'll be ahead of the game.
>
> No smiley face?
Bought any Festool? Your wallet simply won't let you smile until after
you've used it.
>> You do have to be careful, depending upon the stain used, as trying to
>> touch up/blend unstained areas on a previously stained piece can add to
>> the amount of time involved in the project.
>>
>> I've found this to be particularly true of lighter colored gel stains.
>
> It's a pretty dark stain, and not a gel. (Minwax Wood Finish: Gunstock).
IME, the darker the easier to blend/fix.
> But I will be careful nonetheless. You mentioned that the "blue" tape
> can be a problem if left on too long. Is there some other tape you
> prefer? I've seen various kinds of artist's tape (the kind you used to
> see a lot on mixing consoles to label the channels), but the adhesive on
> those might actually be too weak.
I use the blue tape because I use a lot of it, and it is cheap and
ubiquitous. There are other tapes that are advertised to work much better.
This is not a big deal, just my experience that the longer you leave it
on, the bigger PITA it is to remove ... minute little blue strips of
tape in small cracks and crevices, left behind by well meaning painters
and subs, has made my life miserable, particularly when prepping a new
home for the market.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
Greg Guarino wrote:
> Background:
>
> Bookcases, 3/4" ply. Shelves fit into 3/4" x 1/4" dadoes in the
> uprights. There are 20 "shelves". (some are tops and bottoms). 12 of
> those will be finished on both sides. That's 52 pieces of tape, by my
> count. Swingman has suggested a pizza cutter to make accurate edges. I
> could almost imagine doing that, but I now plan to do all of the
> "inside" finishing pre-assembly, and my available time is limited to
> (fractions of) weekends. Thus the tape could be on for weeks, which is
> apparently problematic.
>
> I've been mulling this over, and this is what I've come up with so far
> (the usual caveats about my skill level apply):
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/8378418997/in/photostream/lightbox/
> (use the right arrow to see two detail photos of the "jig")
>
> I quickly screwed together two potential "guard" pieces to cover the
> last 1/4" of each shelf. I set the overhang by resting the jig in one
> of the actual dadoes. I figure I could clamp one side down
> "permanently" and either clamp and unclamp the other side for each
> piece, or possibly just hold it down manually. I might already have
> tested it but ran out of time last night.
>
> I see some possible flaws in this plan. Upon looking at it, I wonder
> if stain and finish would build up on the edges of the thin plywood of
> the jig, or even seep underneath, "contaminating" the next piece to be
> inserted. This could conceivably be countered by covering the business
> end of the jig with shiny packing tape, or something else. I suppose I
> could use tape and wipe the jig ends off after each shelf face is
> done.
>
> Then there is the question of the second side of the shelves. I could
> of course add a bottom "face" to the jigs to hold the shelf above the
> work surface, holding it of course by only the last 1/4".
>
> So? The makings of a good idea? Or fatally flawed?
Flawed, IMO. I can't imagine stuff not wicking under the ply "guard".
OTOH, no big deal if it does.
Any reason why you can't mask what you want to finish when you are
finishing? That is, not mask everything at one time.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 1/14/2013 2:29 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 04:16:16 -0800 (PST), Greg Guarino
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Background:
>>
>> Bookcases, 3/4" ply. Shelves fit into 3/4" x 1/4" dadoes in the
>> uprights. There are 20 "shelves". (some are tops and bottoms). 12 of
>> those will be finished on both sides. That's 52 pieces of tape, by my
>> count. Swingman has suggested a pizza cutter to make accurate edges. I
>> could almost imagine doing that, but I now plan to do all of the
>> "inside" finishing pre-assembly, and my available time is limited to
>> (fractions of) weekends. Thus the tape could be on for weeks, which is
>> apparently problematic.
>>
>> I've been mulling this over, and this is what I've come up with so far
>> (the usual caveats about my skill level apply):
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/8378418997/in/photostream/lightbox/
>> (use the right arrow to see two detail photos of the "jig")
>>
>> I quickly screwed together two potential "guard" pieces to cover the
>> last 1/4" of each shelf. I set the overhang by resting the jig in one
>> of the actual dadoes. I figure I could clamp one side down
>> "permanently" and either clamp and unclamp the other side for each
>> piece, or possibly just hold it down manually. I might already have
>> tested it but ran out of time last night.
>>
>> I see some possible flaws in this plan. Upon looking at it, I wonder
>> if stain and finish would build up on the edges of the thin plywood of
>> the jig, or even seep underneath, "contaminating" the next piece to be
>> inserted. This could conceivably be countered by covering the business
>> end of the jig with shiny packing tape, or something else. I suppose I
>> could use tape and wipe the jig ends off after each shelf face is
>> done.
>>
>> Then there is the question of the second side of the shelves. I could
>> of course add a bottom "face" to the jigs to hold the shelf above the
>> work surface, holding it of course by only the last 1/4".
>>
>> So? The makings of a good idea? Or fatally flawed?
>
> What if you combined your idea with the tape?
>
> First, mask off the area of the shelf that would be inside the dado
> and some of the area not inside the dado. The alignment of the tape
> need not be critical at this point.
>
> Then place the masked shelf in your "guard" and cut the excess tape
> with a knife. Then the alignment would be as perfect as your guard
> and you wouldn't have to be concerned with possible build up for each
> successive shelf.
>
I think I may just take your suggestion, or some variation of it. Real
life crept up on me over the weekend when I wasn't looking and prevented
me from making much progress on the project. That gave me more time to
think about the method, and I realized that there is a flaw I hadn't
considered. I have made a lot of stain samples, and the one that I chose
involves leaving the stain on for a long time (20 minutes) before wiping
it off. I can't very well leave each piece in the jig for 20 minutes
when I have 32 "faces" to stain.
Now I think I'll have to buy the pizza cutter.
On 1/15/2013 1:08 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/15/2013 11:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>
>> Now I think I'll have to buy the pizza cutter.
>
> Stay away from the Festool model and you'll be ahead of the game.
No smiley face?
> You do have to be careful, depending upon the stain used, as trying to
> touch up/blend unstained areas on a previously stained piece can add to
> the amount of time involved in the project.
>
> I've found this to be particularly true of lighter colored gel stains.
It's a pretty dark stain, and not a gel. (Minwax Wood Finish: Gunstock).
But I will be careful nonetheless. You mentioned that the "blue" tape
can be a problem if left on too long. Is there some other tape you
prefer? I've seen various kinds of artist's tape (the kind you used to
see a lot on mixing consoles to label the channels), but the adhesive on
those might actually be too weak.
On 1/15/2013 1:23 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/15/2013 2:14 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On 1/15/2013 1:08 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 1/15/2013 11:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now I think I'll have to buy the pizza cutter.
>>>
>>> Stay away from the Festool model and you'll be ahead of the game.
>>
>> No smiley face?
>
> Bought any Festool? Your wallet simply won't let you smile until after
> you've used it.
>
>>> You do have to be careful, depending upon the stain used, as trying to
>>> touch up/blend unstained areas on a previously stained piece can add to
>>> the amount of time involved in the project.
>>>
>>> I've found this to be particularly true of lighter colored gel stains.
>>
>> It's a pretty dark stain, and not a gel. (Minwax Wood Finish: Gunstock).
>
> IME, the darker the easier to blend/fix.
>
>> But I will be careful nonetheless. You mentioned that the "blue" tape
>> can be a problem if left on too long. Is there some other tape you
>> prefer? I've seen various kinds of artist's tape (the kind you used to
>> see a lot on mixing consoles to label the channels), but the adhesive on
>> those might actually be too weak.
>
> I use the blue tape because I use a lot of it, and it is cheap and
> ubiquitous. There are other tapes that are advertised to work much better.
>
> This is not a big deal, just my experience that the longer you leave it
> on, the bigger PITA it is to remove ... minute little blue strips of
> tape in small cracks and crevices, left behind by well meaning painters
> and subs, has made my life miserable, particularly when prepping a new
> home for the market.
>
there's a green tape i've found at car painting places that sticks well
and comes off cleanly.
chaniarts wrote:
>
> there's a green tape i've found at car painting places that sticks
> well and comes off cleanly.
That green tape is very good. Leaves no adheasive behind, comes off very
easily even when left in place too long. Does not leave as much of an edge
as other masking tapes. A little bit pricey in the world of tapes, but not
genuinely expensive. $2-3 per roll if I remember correctly. It's been a
while since I bought any, and I buy a lot when I do buy it.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 1/15/2013 11:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> Now I think I'll have to buy the pizza cutter.
Stay away from the Festool model and you'll be ahead of the game.
You do have to be careful, depending upon the stain used, as trying to
touch up/blend unstained areas on a previously stained piece can add to
the amount of time involved in the project.
I've found this to be particularly true of lighter colored gel stains.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 1/14/2013 6:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> Background:
>
> Bookcases, 3/4" ply. Shelves fit into 3/4" x 1/4" dadoes in the
> uprights. There are 20 "shelves". (some are tops and bottoms). 12 of
> those will be finished on both sides. That's 52 pieces of tape, by my
> count. Swingman has suggested a pizza cutter to make accurate edges. I
> could almost imagine doing that, but I now plan to do all of the
> "inside" finishing pre-assembly, and my available time is limited to
> (fractions of) weekends. Thus the tape could be on for weeks, which is
> apparently problematic.
>
> I've been mulling this over, and this is what I've come up with so far
> (the usual caveats about my skill level apply):
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/8378418997/in/photostream/lightbox/
> (use the right arrow to see two detail photos of the "jig")
>
> I quickly screwed together two potential "guard" pieces to cover the
> last 1/4" of each shelf. I set the overhang by resting the jig in one
> of the actual dadoes. I figure I could clamp one side down
> "permanently" and either clamp and unclamp the other side for each
> piece, or possibly just hold it down manually. I might already have
> tested it but ran out of time last night.
>
> I see some possible flaws in this plan. Upon looking at it, I wonder
> if stain and finish would build up on the edges of the thin plywood of
> the jig, or even seep underneath, "contaminating" the next piece to be
> inserted. This could conceivably be countered by covering the business
> end of the jig with shiny packing tape, or something else. I suppose I
> could use tape and wipe the jig ends off after each shelf face is
> done.
>
> Then there is the question of the second side of the shelves. I could
> of course add a bottom "face" to the jigs to hold the shelf above the
> work surface, holding it of course by only the last 1/4".
>
> So? The makings of a good idea? Or fatally flawed?
>
Pretty novel idea but FWIW I dont worry about stain on the surface that
enters the dado. For the most part there is glue on the end of the
shelf that was not stained and typically there is a face frame that will
also help prevent the shelf from pulling out of the dado.
When in doubt, I will lightly scuff the end of the finished shelf but
never mask to prevent stain from getting on a surface.. I will mask to
prevent glue from getting on a surface.
While glue does not stick as well to a finished surface as bare wood, it
will to some degree stick.