Kk

KIMOSABE

11/08/2010 12:06 PM

Questions about raised panel kit. cabinet doors with curved tops.

Questions about raised panel kit. cabinet doors with curved tops.

I'm referring to one like the the second door from the right in the
top row athttp://www.stellarwoodworks.com/cabinetry.html

Are there such things as templates for the curves?

If there are no templates easily available and I draw it up from
scratch, is there any best way to adjust the pattern when making doors
of different widths? The width of the curve gets smaller, but the
height of the arch remains the same to match the other doors.

My guess about doing the raised panel is that the top curve is cut and
the panel is done face down on a router table, using a pilot bearing
to follow the curve.

Obviously I've never made a raised panel door. I'm just at the
beginning of the planning stage to make several cabinets.

Thanx for any advice.


This topic has 25 replies

Sc

Sonny

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 3:23 PM

On Aug 11, 4:21=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/Templates-Cathedral/productinfo/TMP3/- Hi=
de quoted text -
>


LOL, I like that "special pricing", too.

Sonny

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

12/08/2010 6:34 AM

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:39:10 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Aug 11, 6:23 pm, Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Aug 11, 4:21 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >>http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/Templates-Cathedral/productinfo/TMP3/-Hide quoted text -
>>
>> LOL, I like that "special pricing", too.
>
>Really. And I also like that they're made of HDPE instead of
>'granular' PVC. The router base will slide a lot better on the HDPE.

What's with the "granular" crap? Are termites barfing it up in
different styles of late?

Ll

"Leon"

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 4:21 PM


"KIMOSABE" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:41b4c000-5a80-4055-8b14-1ef79e43467d@r31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> Questions about raised panel kit. cabinet doors with curved tops.
>
> I'm referring to one like the the second door from the right in the
> top row athttp://www.stellarwoodworks.com/cabinetry.html
>
> Are there such things as templates for the curves?
>
> If there are no templates easily available and I draw it up from
> scratch, is there any best way to adjust the pattern when making doors
> of different widths? The width of the curve gets smaller, but the
> height of the arch remains the same to match the other doors.
>
> My guess about doing the raised panel is that the top curve is cut and
> the panel is done face down on a router table, using a pilot bearing
> to follow the curve.
>
> Obviously I've never made a raised panel door. I'm just at the
> beginning of the planning stage to make several cabinets.
>
> Thanx for any advice.

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/Templates-Cathedral/productinfo/TMP3/

Rc

Robatoy

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

12/08/2010 11:27 AM

On Aug 12, 12:40=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 12, 11:31=A0am, KIMOSABE <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 12, 2:36=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > The real question is why? That style is so..... yesterday.
>
> > Other than eliminating the curves and going with rectangular doors, do
> > you have additional suggestions? =A0Links to pictures?
>
> From Woodweb.com:
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> From contributor C:
> Read your history on the Shakers. If you are going to use their name,
> you owe it to them, yourself and your customer. Along with lots of
> great information, you will find that the Shakers preferred the clean
> look of a flat panel as opposed to a raised panel. The raise was
> considered an undesirable design element.
> Being pragmatic but balancing that with design, they did not want to
> spend a bunch of time hand planing 1" material to 3/8" or so. Their
> solution was to turn the raise to the inside/backside. This also
> helped keep the (air-dried) panel in balance. To be fair, fielding a
> panel and turning the field (raised) to the back was common for
> centuries before the Shakers, but they get the credit in this part of
> the world. The resulting flat panels could show fancy grains, be
> veneered, carved or ornamented better than a raised panel. You may
> also read that a Shaker woman invented the circular saw blade ("teeth
> on a wheel"). This was also done about the same time in England.

The things you learn....and here I always thought that the circular
saw was invented by Baron Willhelm Von Phlungen Aufder Feststhuhl.

Sc

Sonny

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 2:16 PM

>
> Wouldn't fold the paper, draw the form once, cut both forms
> simultaneously, unfold, be more accurate?
> Assuming you have the fold in the vertical center.
>
> --
> Froz...
>
> The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.


Seems it woud be. Thanks for the heads up.

I guess I was trying to get the idea across, more so, than best
technique. I perform this technique most often with my upholstery
work. Fabric doesn't cut quite the same as "paper" patterns. Fabric
often flexes, depending on the weave, so cutting 2 ply doesn't always
work out, properly. On fabric, front and back (top and bottom)
centers are established, one half of the profile is marked/cut, then
the fabric is folded, to mark/cut the other half. When old fabric is
removed from an item, it's often no longer symetrical, so sometimes a
new pattern is made. Of the old fabric, I use the best side (best
remaining profile) to determine which profile best outlines what the
original was, then make a paper pattern, for the new fabric.

Thanks again.
Sonny

Kk

KIMOSABE

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

12/08/2010 8:31 AM

On Aug 12, 2:36=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> The real question is why? That style is so..... yesterday.

Other than eliminating the curves and going with rectangular doors, do
you have additional suggestions? Links to pictures?

kk

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 1:34 PM

On Aug 11, 2:06=A0pm, KIMOSABE <[email protected]> wrote:
> Questions about raised panel kit. cabinet doors with curved tops.
>
> I'm referring to one like the the second door from the right in the
> top row athttp://www.stellarwoodworks.com/cabinetry.html
>
> Are there such things as templates for the curves?
>
> If there are no templates easily available and I draw it up from
> scratch, is there any best way to adjust the pattern when making doors
> of different widths? =A0The width of the curve gets smaller, but the
> height of the arch remains the same to match the other doors.
>
> My guess about doing the raised panel is that the top curve is cut and
> the panel is done face down on a router table, using a pilot bearing
> to follow the curve.
>
> Obviously I've never made a raised panel door. =A0I'm just at the
> beginning of the planning stage to make several cabinets.
>
> Thanx for any advice.

http://www.ptreeusa.com/router_jigs_templates.htm
...about half way down the page.

Kk

KIMOSABE

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 3:13 PM

You guys posted a lot of good links on exactly what I needed. Thanks.

After reading much of it, it seems that using a vertical bit would be
nice, but is there a way to use a vertical bit on the curve of a
cathedral door panel?

Rc

Robatoy

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

12/08/2010 3:16 PM

On Aug 12, 3:59=A0pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:31:05 -0700 (PDT), KIMOSABE
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Aug 12, 2:36=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> The real question is why? That style is so..... yesterday.
>
> >Other than eliminating the curves and going with rectangular doors, do
> >you have additional suggestions? =A0Links to pictures?
>
> Photographs are the new wood, boy. =A0You should be having your family
> pictures blown up and pasted on flat-faced cabinet doors.
>
> Think how quaint it will be to have that picture of little Jimmy
> peeing on his baby sister on the doors below the sink, that wide-eyed
> pic of teen Susie (and her wasted boyfriend on the floor of the closet
> after the prom) on the doors above the stove, the pic of your terrior
> with chewed-up pieces of the $400 home automation remote on the living
> room floor slapped onto the pantry doors, and you and your wife's
> photos on the cabinet doors on either side of the sink? =A0Oh so
> _homey_, don't you think?

Completely inappropriate.

Ll

"Leon"

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 5:50 PM


"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Aug 11, 4:21 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/Templates-Cathedral/productinfo/TMP3/-
>> Hide quoted text -
>


LOL, I like that "special pricing", too.

Sonny


LOL, It does seem like 2 or more would have been easier to portray. Good
thing they did not extend it out to all choices had they a few hundred
styles to offer.

Hn

Han

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

12/08/2010 5:25 PM

Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:f0b9599a-04a8-4337-9837-
[email protected]:

> On Aug 12, 11:31 am, KIMOSABE <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Aug 12, 2:36 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > The real question is why? That style is so..... yesterday.
>>
>> Other than eliminating the curves and going with rectangular doors, do
>> you have additional suggestions?  Links to pictures?
>
> I have been a long time fan of the genuine shaker door style where the
> raised panel is on the inside of the door (although usually not a huge
> bevel). I find, and it is really a personal preference, that too much
> detail on a whole lot of doors becomes too busy. The array of doors in
> a kitchen will create enough of an interest all by themselves. There
> are situations where nicely done raised panel doors can be very nice,
> I just don't think a kitchen is the place. Wardrobes, vanities, desks,
> sure.
> I will get you a few shots of doors I like.

We liked these commercial doors for our kitchen cabinets (see
free.binaries.pictures.woodworking, soon)

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Rr

RicodJour

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 12:19 PM

On Aug 11, 3:06=A0pm, KIMOSABE <[email protected]> wrote:
> Questions about raised panel kit. cabinet doors with curved tops.
>
> I'm referring to one like the the second door from the right in the
> top row athttp://www.stellarwoodworks.com/cabinetry.html
>
> Are there such things as templates for the curves?
>
> If there are no templates easily available and I draw it up from
> scratch, is there any best way to adjust the pattern when making doors
> of different widths? =A0The width of the curve gets smaller, but the
> height of the arch remains the same to match the other doors.
>
> My guess about doing the raised panel is that the top curve is cut and
> the panel is done face down on a router table, using a pilot bearing
> to follow the curve.
>
> Obviously I've never made a raised panel door. =A0I'm just at the
> beginning of the planning stage to make several cabinets.

Yep, that's about it. Some people would use a hand held router
instead of the table so they could see what's going on, but it's the
same thing. An average kitchen would probably only need four or five
hardboard templates for the arch tops.

R

Sc

Sonny

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 1:22 PM

Additionally:

If you ever need to hand draw any pattern (any symetrical pattern that
requires a mirrow image for left/right [usually] or top/bottom, for
any project), draw one half, cut the form/outline, then fold your
"paper" in half, to make/draw an exact copy/profile on the other side
(for the other half). .... actually, I'm supposing you know this.

Curve templates are readily available for creating designs of your
own.... http://www.cutting-mats.net/french-curves.html .... again,
draw one half, cut the form, fold your "paper", then draw the other
half.

Sonny

Kk

KIMOSABE

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

12/08/2010 2:31 PM

On Aug 12, 1:25=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:

> We liked these commercial doors for our kitchen cabinets (see
> free.binaries.pictures.woodworking, soon)
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han


Thanks, but I get back messages that it can't get be found.

Rc

Robatoy

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 11:36 PM

On Aug 11, 3:06=A0pm, KIMOSABE <[email protected]> wrote:
> Questions about raised panel kit. cabinet doors with curved tops.
>
> I'm referring to one like the the second door from the right in the
> top row athttp://www.stellarwoodworks.com/cabinetry.html
>
> Are there such things as templates for the curves?
>
> If there are no templates easily available and I draw it up from
> scratch, is there any best way to adjust the pattern when making doors
> of different widths? =A0The width of the curve gets smaller, but the
> height of the arch remains the same to match the other doors.
>
> My guess about doing the raised panel is that the top curve is cut and
> the panel is done face down on a router table, using a pilot bearing
> to follow the curve.
>
> Obviously I've never made a raised panel door. =A0I'm just at the
> beginning of the planning stage to make several cabinets.
>
> Thanx for any advice.

The real question is why? That style is so..... yesterday.

Rr

RicodJour

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 3:39 PM

On Aug 11, 6:23=A0pm, Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 11, 4:21=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/Templates-Cathedral/productinfo/TMP3/-Hi=
de quoted text -
>
> LOL, I like that "special pricing", too.

Really. And I also like that they're made of HDPE instead of
'granular' PVC. The router base will slide a lot better on the HDPE.

R

Rc

Robatoy

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

12/08/2010 9:40 AM

On Aug 12, 11:31=A0am, KIMOSABE <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 12, 2:36=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The real question is why? That style is so..... yesterday.
>
> Other than eliminating the curves and going with rectangular doors, do
> you have additional suggestions? =A0Links to pictures?

From Woodweb.com:

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From contributor C:
Read your history on the Shakers. If you are going to use their name,
you owe it to them, yourself and your customer. Along with lots of
great information, you will find that the Shakers preferred the clean
look of a flat panel as opposed to a raised panel. The raise was
considered an undesirable design element.
Being pragmatic but balancing that with design, they did not want to
spend a bunch of time hand planing 1" material to 3/8" or so. Their
solution was to turn the raise to the inside/backside. This also
helped keep the (air-dried) panel in balance. To be fair, fielding a
panel and turning the field (raised) to the back was common for
centuries before the Shakers, but they get the credit in this part of
the world. The resulting flat panels could show fancy grains, be
veneered, carved or ornamented better than a raised panel. You may
also read that a Shaker woman invented the circular saw blade ("teeth
on a wheel"). This was also done about the same time in England.

Rr

RicodJour

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 1:40 PM

On Aug 11, 4:34=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 11, 2:06=A0pm, KIMOSABE <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Questions about raised panel kit. cabinet doors with curved tops.
>
> > I'm referring to one like the the second door from the right in the
> > top row athttp://www.stellarwoodworks.com/cabinetry.html
>
> > Are there such things as templates for the curves?
>
> > If there are no templates easily available and I draw it up from
> > scratch, is there any best way to adjust the pattern when making doors
> > of different widths? =A0The width of the curve gets smaller, but the
> > height of the arch remains the same to match the other doors.
>
> > My guess about doing the raised panel is that the top curve is cut and
> > the panel is done face down on a router table, using a pilot bearing
> > to follow the curve.
>
> > Obviously I've never made a raised panel door. =A0I'm just at the
> > beginning of the planning stage to make several cabinets.
>
> > Thanx for any advice.
>
> http://www.ptreeusa.com/router_jigs_templates.htm
> ...about half way down the page.

That certainly seems like a good deal, but what's 'granular PVC'? Is
that a fancy name for something like Azek PVC trim board?

R

Rc

Robatoy

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

12/08/2010 8:36 AM

On Aug 12, 11:31=A0am, KIMOSABE <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 12, 2:36=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The real question is why? That style is so..... yesterday.
>
> Other than eliminating the curves and going with rectangular doors, do
> you have additional suggestions? =A0Links to pictures?

I have been a long time fan of the genuine shaker door style where the
raised panel is on the inside of the door (although usually not a huge
bevel). I find, and it is really a personal preference, that too much
detail on a whole lot of doors becomes too busy. The array of doors in
a kitchen will create enough of an interest all by themselves. There
are situations where nicely done raised panel doors can be very nice,
I just don't think a kitchen is the place. Wardrobes, vanities, desks,
sure.
I will get you a few shots of doors I like.

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

12/08/2010 12:59 PM

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:31:05 -0700 (PDT), KIMOSABE
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Aug 12, 2:36 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> The real question is why? That style is so..... yesterday.
>
>Other than eliminating the curves and going with rectangular doors, do
>you have additional suggestions? Links to pictures?

Photographs are the new wood, boy. You should be having your family
pictures blown up and pasted on flat-faced cabinet doors.

Think how quaint it will be to have that picture of little Jimmy
peeing on his baby sister on the doors below the sink, that wide-eyed
pic of teen Susie (and her wasted boyfriend on the floor of the closet
after the prom) on the doors above the stove, the pic of your terrior
with chewed-up pieces of the $400 home automation remote on the living
room floor slapped onto the pantry doors, and you and your wife's
photos on the cabinet doors on either side of the sink? Oh so
_homey_, don't you think?

cc

"chaniarts"

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 12:24 PM

KIMOSABE wrote:
> Questions about raised panel kit. cabinet doors with curved tops.
>
> I'm referring to one like the the second door from the right in the
> top row athttp://www.stellarwoodworks.com/cabinetry.html
>
> Are there such things as templates for the curves?
>
> If there are no templates easily available and I draw it up from
> scratch, is there any best way to adjust the pattern when making doors
> of different widths? The width of the curve gets smaller, but the
> height of the arch remains the same to match the other doors.
>
> My guess about doing the raised panel is that the top curve is cut and
> the panel is done face down on a router table, using a pilot bearing
> to follow the curve.
>
> Obviously I've never made a raised panel door. I'm just at the
> beginning of the planning stage to make several cabinets.
>
> Thanx for any advice.

http://www.rockler.com/articles/how-to-raised-panel-doors.cfm

this page contains links to templates

Ff

FrozenNorth

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 4:27 PM

On 8/11/10 4:22 PM, Sonny wrote:
> Additionally:
>
> If you ever need to hand draw any pattern (any symetrical pattern that
> requires a mirrow image for left/right [usually] or top/bottom, for
> any project), draw one half, cut the form/outline, then fold your
> "paper" in half, to make/draw an exact copy/profile on the other side
> (for the other half). .... actually, I'm supposing you know this.
>
> Curve templates are readily available for creating designs of your
> own.... http://www.cutting-mats.net/french-curves.html .... again,
> draw one half, cut the form, fold your "paper", then draw the other
> half.
>
> Sonny

Wouldn't fold the paper, draw the form once, cut both forms
simultaneously, unfold, be more accurate?
Assuming you have the fold in the vertical center.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

wd

"woodstuff"

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

12/08/2010 1:03 AM


"KIMOSABE" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:41b4c000-5a80-4055-8b14-1ef79e43467d@r31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> Questions about raised panel kit. cabinet doors with curved tops.
>
> I'm referring to one like the the second door from the right in the
> top row athttp://www.stellarwoodworks.com/cabinetry.html
>
> Are there such things as templates for the curves?
>
> If there are no templates easily available and I draw it up from
> scratch, is there any best way to adjust the pattern when making doors
> of different widths? The width of the curve gets smaller, but the
> height of the arch remains the same to match the other doors.
>
> My guess about doing the raised panel is that the top curve is cut and
> the panel is done face down on a router table, using a pilot bearing
> to follow the curve.
>
> Obviously I've never made a raised panel door. I'm just at the
> beginning of the planning stage to make several cabinets.
>
> Thanx for any advice.

I was blessed with a good deal when I bought the weaver jigs for panel and
rail and also got one set of templates on Woodweb woodworking machinery.
(http://www.weaver-sales.com/jigs-patterns-crown-manual.htm).

You don't really need this, but it is he best I know of. Some other
companies make similar jigs and I don't see why they couldn't be used on a
router table.

I have a good friend who has always made his own patterns of 1/4' plywood
and it's pretty fast. He uses a shaper, but that doesn't matter; it should
work on a router table. The best advice I can give you is that you need to
make good handles and use good control practices when doing this. And also,
count your fingers on a regular basis.

For what little you are going to do, consider making your own patterns.
It's really easy to make half of it on tracing paper and just fold it over
to achieve symmetry. I still make my own patterns for some weird designs.

I forgot to say that if you put a small piece of sacrificial wood on each
end, it will help prevent tear-out.

Have a good day, woodstuff

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

12/08/2010 7:06 PM

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Aug 12, 3:59 pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:31:05 -0700 (PDT), KIMOSABE
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >On Aug 12, 2:36 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> The real question is why? That style is so..... yesterday.
>>
>> >Other than eliminating the curves and going with rectangular doors, do
>> >you have additional suggestions?  Links to pictures?
>>
>> Photographs are the new wood, boy.  You should be having your family
>> pictures blown up and pasted on flat-faced cabinet doors.
>>
>> Think how quaint it will be to have that picture of little Jimmy
>> peeing on his baby sister on the doors below the sink, that wide-eyed
>> pic of teen Susie (and her wasted boyfriend on the floor of the closet
>> after the prom) on the doors above the stove, the pic of your terrior
>> with chewed-up pieces of the $400 home automation remote on the living
>> room floor slapped onto the pantry doors, and you and your wife's
>> photos on the cabinet doors on either side of the sink?  Oh so
>> _homey_, don't you think?
>
>Completely inappropriate.

Thank you.

Ll

"Leon"

in reply to KIMOSABE on 11/08/2010 12:06 PM

11/08/2010 5:19 PM


"KIMOSABE" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:8488367b-2c49-498d-8256-ad0e9acf895c@g17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> You guys posted a lot of good links on exactly what I needed. Thanks.
>
> After reading much of it, it seems that using a vertical bit would be
> nice, but is there a way to use a vertical bit on the curve of a
> cathedral door panel?
>

No. Verticals will only work realistically on straight cuts. Additionally
you want to for sure mount a raised panel bit in a router table. Actually I
only use a router table for all the bits in this situation.

I have done a kitchen where I had to match existing arched cab doors. I
simply held a thin piece of wood and bent it up to the high spot and had a
helper trace the arc. I was able to do the arcs smoothly enough.


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