OT? Amenities in homes

"d.williams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Currently My wife and I are preparing to build a new home. Certainly not
>> high end but it will most likely have most of what you have mentioned. I
>> suppose it is all relative as a for instance your mention of 10' ceilings
>> being in lower custom homes. Our 30 year old "starter home" has 10 foot
>> ceilings. Rounded corner sheet rock has been the norm in all new
>> construction for 15 + years. Hard wood trim is common but typically a
>> marginal up grade. What is a Pot Shelf? Skupltured/stepped ceilings
>> and crown molding are available in starter homes. Fancy front doors are
>> common.
>> Starting to see fire places offered in the back yard patio. Granite is
>> common place and a 3 car garage is becoming a common neighborhoow
>> sighting for homes in new neighborhoods. Our new home will have a 3 car
>> garage.
>>
>> At the moment the home we are most interested in and appointed the way we
>> want will have, 10" ceilings, Island kitchen, extra study room, 3
>> bedrooms, formal dining, breakfast nook, 3 car garage, brick 3 sides,
>> extral high roof line, tile in all rooms except bedrooms, oval tub and
>> seperate shower, remote controlled fire place, radient barrier decking,
>> double pained low-e windows, Cat 5 media wiring to name the most obvious
>> and just under 2100 sq. ft. single story. $148K.
>>
> Sounds like that would take care of my needs too. That's a lotta house
> for 148K, at least in my neck of the woods. I assume that's no basement
> and not including the lot?

Living in the Houston area there are no basements but yes the price is on a
lot in a 2 year old neighborhood. Actually about 30 miles SW of down town
Houston. We currently live about 12 miles SW of down town.

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:49:40 -0700, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 01:39:01 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
><leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Lew Hodgett" wrote
>>>
>>> "Lee Michaels" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since it was nicer than the one I had, I stupidly installed it.
>>> -------------------
>>> First mistake was not to pop out the flow restrictor in the new shower
>>> head.
>>>
>>> Usually it is little more than an orifice plate.
>>>
>>Flow restrictor? Orifice plate?
>>
>>Why does this sound like a girl I used to know?
>
>_Tight_, was she? Yummy!

Muslim.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:37:59 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Currently My wife and I are preparing to build a new home. Certainly not
>high end but it will most likely have most of what you have mentioned. I
>suppose it is all relative as a for instance your mention of 10' ceilings
>being in lower custom homes. Our 30 year old "starter home" has 10 foot
>ceilings. Rounded corner sheet rock has been the norm in all new
>construction for 15 + years. Hard wood trim is common but typically a
>marginal up grade. What is a Pot Shelf? Skupltured/stepped ceilings and
>crown molding are available in starter homes. Fancy front doors are common.
>Starting to see fire places offered in the back yard patio. Granite is
>common place and a 3 car garage is becoming a common neighborhoow sighting
>for homes in new neighborhoods. Our new home will have a 3 car garage.

When I looked at new homes in the Des Moines, IA area *every one* had a
three-car garage. Only one of the several tens of new homes here in Alabama
had one, and that one was almost the identical size as a normal two-car, only
with three doors. The trickery wasn't evident until I measured. ;-) I would
certainly go for a three-car garage, if I built.

>At the moment the home we are most interested in and appointed the way we
>want will have, 10" ceilings, Island kitchen, extra study room, 3 bedrooms,
>formal dining, breakfast nook, 3 car garage, brick 3 sides, extral high roof
>line, tile in all rooms except bedrooms, oval tub and seperate shower,
>remote controlled fire place, radient barrier decking, double pained low-e
>windows, Cat 5 media wiring to name the most obvious and just under 2100 sq.
>ft. single story. $148K.

10" ceilings? ;-)

Our house isn't "high end" by any means, but it's certainly not a starter,
either. We have 2600ft^2, 3 bedroom, 3-1/2 baths. There are granite tops
everywhere except the laundry (5 surfaces in the kitchen, living room shelves,
and the four bathrooms). Fireplace, formal dining, great room (kitchen,
living, and breakfast separated by a bar area). The master suite is about 1/3
of the main floor, with two bedrooms upstairs. 9' ceilings, with cathedral
ceilings over the great room (not kitchen or breakfast areas).

The master suite is connected by two hallways to the great room, with the
master bath on one end of the second and to walk-in closets leading to the
bedroom at the other end of the hall. Whirlpool tub and 6'x6' shower, with
rain head, in master bath, all tiled. The master bath is about 12'x15'. The
other two full bathrooms have the crappy one-piece fiberglass tubs and
surrounds. This sort of master suite setup is quite common here. Almost all
new homes had similar.

The other nice feature was the screened in porch and a space big enough over
the garage to build a shop (current project ;-).

"Nonnymus" <[email protected]> wrote

> What amenities, features and the like do you find in your own area of the
> country, such as the above?
>
> Nonny

I have found that a lot of amenities in homes are overpriced and low quality
If a person is a craftsman, they are better off to find a floor plan they
like, or just a house that they like for some other reasons, and then do the
upgrades themselves, doing them exactly to order, getting probably a better
job, and getting it for less. And in the case of some really high end
amenities, (SubZero, Wolf, Dacor, Vulcan, etc.) the cost could be halved,
and moderately high quality amenities substituted without sacrificing a lot.

MHO, YMMV

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

>
> What part of the country?
>


Lafayette, Louisiana

Sonny

Leon wrote:
> "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>> In Houston it seems the slykights are increasingly unpopular, again
>>> back on the 80's these were popular but leaked. Now I don't see
>>> them so much in new construction.
>>
>> Use VeLux skylights. There will never be a leak problem, with the
>> flashing system they use.
>> --
>> Jim in NC
>>
>
> IIRC the lens? would crack.

Maybe in the heat you guys get down in Houston - but I've had them in my
roof for over 20 years in Central NY, and not a single problem. Of course
up here, you have to be mindful of them when you're shoveling the roof off
in the winter.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Aug 11, 6:37=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Currently My wife and I are preparing to build a new home. =A0Certainly n=
ot
> high end but it will most likely have most of what you have mentioned. =
=A0I
> suppose it is all relative as a for instance your mention of 10' ceilings
> being in lower custom homes. =A0Our 30 year old "starter home" has 10 foo=
t
> ceilings. =A0Rounded corner sheet rock has been the norm in all new
> construction for 15 + years. =A0Hard wood trim is common but typically a
> marginal up grade. =A0 What is a Pot Shelf? =A0Skupltured/stepped ceiling=
s and
> crown molding are available in starter homes. =A0Fancy front doors are co=
mmon.
> Starting to see fire places offered in the back yard patio. =A0Granite is
> common place and a 3 car garage is becoming a common neighborhoow sightin=
g
> for homes in new neighborhoods. =A0Our new home will have a 3 car garage.
>
> At the moment the home we are most interested in and appointed the way we
> want will have, 10" ceilings, Island kitchen, extra study room, 3 bedroom=
s,
> formal dining, breakfast nook, 3 car garage, brick 3 sides, extral high r=
oof
> line, tile in all rooms except bedrooms, oval tub and seperate shower,
> remote controlled fire place, radient barrier decking, double pained low-=
e
> windows, Cat 5 media wiring to name the most obvious and just under 2100 =
sq.
> ft. single story. =A0$148K.

I'm assuming that that $148K is for the house built on your lot,
right?
This is what $140K gets you around here:
http://www.redfin.com/NY/Elmont/1485-Sweetman-Ave-11003/home/20469891
Around here meaning about ten miles away - closest I could find, and
not exactly what you'd call a good area, but at least it includes all
1/8 acre!

This one really hurts:
http://www.redfin.com/NY/Huntington-Station/10-2nd-Ave-11746/home/21092286
It's on the market for less than half of what it sold for four years
ago. This one's about 15 miles away.

R

DGDevin wrote:
>
> Yup, they make sense because it isn't like the cost of energy is
> going down over the long term.

But the cost of lighting is. Florescent... CFL... LED.

On Aug 11, 6:02=A0pm, "Nonnymus" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I posted a similar inquiry to the home repair newsgroup and would appreci=
ate
> any suggestions for other, active, newsgroups where it would get a good
> response.
> =3D=3D=3D

Hey Nonny. Crossposting, in general, is bad newsgroup etiquette, but
when it's the same question, and applicable to a few newsgroups, it's
better to have all of the answers in the one question/thread.
Otherwise people will have to read the responses in each newsgroup
separately, and if it's an active thread, you'll get a fair bit of
duplication of responses. That just wastes people's time.

R

On 8/16/2010 7:32 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 8/16/2010 7:18 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

>
> Like I said, Mike ... I like the particular product

Speak of the devil ... finally got the designer's lighting plan for a
renovation/kitchen job and, lo and behold, what is spec'ed but a Velux.

She actually remembered my advice from two months ago. :)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 8/16/2010 7:32 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 8/16/2010 7:18 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

>
> Like I said, Mike ... I like the particular product

Speak of the devil ... finally got the designer's lighting plan for a
renovation/kitchen job and, lo and behold, what is spec'ed but a Velux.

She actually remembered my advice from two months ago. :)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Aug 16, 1:03=A0am, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast
dot net> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>
>
> > ...and now the Nanny State wants to regulate the water those rain
> > heads use.... just when we fell in love with ours. Commiesunsabitches.
>
> The local utility company sent out "free" showerheads to everybody. Along
> with a passionate plea to "save water". Made it sound like a divine missi=
on
> from God or something.
>
> Since it was nicer than the one I had, I stupidly installed it. It
> immediately created a number of leaks that dripped down into the basement=
. I
> had to do some repairs. Every thing worked fine until I put that showerhe=
ad
> from Hell on there.
>
> I called them up. Of course, they acted stupid and refused to compensate =
us
> for the damage that their "free" showerhead caused.
>
> The lesson learned? =A0BEWARE of strangers offering "free" showerheads!!

Well, yes! I was taught when I was a child, to NEVER follow some weird
guy to help him look for his lost puppy OR, taking a free shower head
from a stranger. Some thing go without saying.

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> But the cost of lighting is. Florescent... CFL... LED.
>

Sunlight's the cheapest of them all.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

"Swingman" wrote:

> There ain't no such thing as a 40 MPH "hurricane".
--------------------------
After hurricane Andrew, a test for overhead garage doors that involved
using a pneumatic cannon firing a 2x4 like a spear into the test door.

If the 2x4 penetrated the door, it failed.

As a result of those tests, foam core fiberglass garage doors were
born.

Lew

"Steve Turner" wrote:

> I wonder if fiberglass made with polyester resin is good enough or
> if they had to step up to epoxy...
-------------------
It's the foam core not the fiberglass skins that gets the job done;
however, knitted glass will weigh a lot less than a polyester lay-up.

Lew

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> ...and now the Nanny State wants to regulate the water those rain
> heads use.... just when we fell in love with ours. Commiesunsabitches.

The local utility company sent out "free" showerheads to everybody. Along
with a passionate plea to "save water". Made it sound like a divine mission
from God or something.

Since it was nicer than the one I had, I stupidly installed it. It
immediately created a number of leaks that dripped down into the basement. I
had to do some repairs. Every thing worked fine until I put that showerhead
from Hell on there.

I called them up. Of course, they acted stupid and refused to compensate us
for the damage that their "free" showerhead caused.

The lesson learned? BEWARE of strangers offering "free" showerheads!!

"Lee Michaels" wrote:

> Since it was nicer than the one I had, I stupidly installed it.
-------------------
First mistake was not to pop out the flow restrictor in the new shower
head.

Usually it is little more than an orifice plate.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote
>
> "Lee Michaels" wrote:
>
>> Since it was nicer than the one I had, I stupidly installed it.
> -------------------
> First mistake was not to pop out the flow restrictor in the new shower
> head.
>
> Usually it is little more than an orifice plate.
>
Flow restrictor? Orifice plate?

Why does this sound like a girl I used to know?

"Lee Michaels" wrote:
> Why does this sound like a girl I used to know?
------------------------
Cause you slept thru Fluid Mechanics.

Lew

"Swingman" wrote:

> Speak of the devil ... finally got the designer's lighting plan for
> a renovation/kitchen job and, lo and behold, what is spec'ed but a
> Velux.
--------------------------
Opening skylights on buildings are like deck hatches on boats.

Sooner or later they both leak.

Lew

On Aug 11, 6:37=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Currently My wife and I are preparing to build a new home. =A0Certainly n=
ot
> high end but it will most likely have most of what you have mentioned. =
=A0I
> suppose it is all relative as a for instance your mention of 10' ceilings
> being in lower custom homes. =A0Our 30 year old "starter home" has 10 foo=
t
> ceilings. =A0Rounded corner sheet rock has been the norm in all new
> construction for 15 + years. =A0Hard wood trim is common but typically a
> marginal up grade. =A0 What is a Pot Shelf? =A0Skupltured/stepped ceiling=
s and
> crown molding are available in starter homes. =A0Fancy front doors are co=
mmon.
> Starting to see fire places offered in the back yard patio. =A0Granite is
> common place and a 3 car garage is becoming a common neighborhoow sightin=
g
> for homes in new neighborhoods. =A0Our new home will have a 3 car garage.

You mean a 1000 SF workshop, right? Or is SWMBO reading over your
shoulder? ;)

> At the moment the home we are most interested in and appointed the way we
> want will have, 10" ceilings, Island kitchen, extra study room, 3 bedroom=
s,
> formal dining, breakfast nook, 3 car garage, brick 3 sides,

What's the fourth side?

If I might make an observation about siding...
Around here you'll see some homes which I call Colorform homes.
Remember those plastic sticky things where kids would put a sticky
dress cutout on the two dimensional figure of a girl? They were just
applied. When they do that with siding - just apply it like it's
painted on - it becomes analogous to a Colorform toy.

Brick and stone are the bones of the house and usually show the best
when they are designed to work that way. Some house styles, like
Federalist houses, pretty much require all brick veneer. But if the
house is not such a style, having the brick/stone closer to the ground
and edges and corners, then transitioning to another style of siding
(such as stucco) between and above the brick/stone, can look sharper
and more distinctive than just having it all one way of the other.

Tudor houses, when well done, are good examples (though this link
isn't the best it does give the idea)
http://www.tulsapreservationcommission.org/images/buildings/mcbirney.jpg
This is a remodeled box of a house that's been broken up with the
stone - it's on the way, but not quite there yet.
http://www.peakstuccoandstone.com/images/residential/lg/GrizzlyPeak-SandSto=
ne.jpg
and another from that site:
http://www.peakstuccoandstone.com/images/residential/lg/Brick-MtColumbia.jp=
g

Here's a what not to do picture - too busy and arbitrarily done
siding:
http://gzcontracting.info/images/stucco%20glenwood%20str.jpg

R

Currently My wife and I are preparing to build a new home. Certainly not
high end but it will most likely have most of what you have mentioned. I
suppose it is all relative as a for instance your mention of 10' ceilings
being in lower custom homes. Our 30 year old "starter home" has 10 foot
ceilings. Rounded corner sheet rock has been the norm in all new
construction for 15 + years. Hard wood trim is common but typically a
marginal up grade. What is a Pot Shelf? Skupltured/stepped ceilings and
crown molding are available in starter homes. Fancy front doors are common.
Starting to see fire places offered in the back yard patio. Granite is
common place and a 3 car garage is becoming a common neighborhoow sighting
for homes in new neighborhoods. Our new home will have a 3 car garage.

At the moment the home we are most interested in and appointed the way we
want will have, 10" ceilings, Island kitchen, extra study room, 3 bedrooms,
formal dining, breakfast nook, 3 car garage, brick 3 sides, extral high roof
line, tile in all rooms except bedrooms, oval tub and seperate shower,
remote controlled fire place, radient barrier decking, double pained low-e
windows, Cat 5 media wiring to name the most obvious and just under 2100 sq.
ft. single story. $148K.





"Nonnymus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I posted a similar inquiry to the home repair newsgroup and would
>appreciate any suggestions for other, active, newsgroups where it would get
>a good response.
> ===
> I have a lifelong background in real estate and am now retired. I'd enjoy
> discussing the differences in upscale single family residences found in
> various parts of the country, if anyone is interested.
>
> I am now retired to NV. Here, after looking at various custom and
> semi-custom homes, I was surprised to learn I'd not "seen it all," yet.
> Besides the expected features and amenities found in most upscale homes
> today, such as commercial appliances in kitchens, media wiring, built in
> vac, granite counters, cabinetry in the closets and multiple car garages,
> I have seen some new things. These include a separate sink for vegetable
> preparation, usually located near the one or two refrigerators, two
> dishwashers, pot filler faucet by the cooktop, outlets inside bathroom
> drawers for curlers and hair dryers, fireplaces in major bathrooms and the
> master suite, steam showers and (always) an in-ground pool with spa.
>
> Upscale flooring in Nevada is typically Travertine in most areas and
> carpet in the bedrooms, with large tile being acceptable if it matches the
> theme of the home. Ceilings are usually 10' in the "lower" semi-custom
> homes and 12' to 15' in the better custom ones. Doors are almost always
> 8', solid, and have Baldwin or Emco hardware. Windows are low E double
> pane, of course, and insulation is extensive. Exterior walls are 6" and
> the better homes have 5/8" drywall throughout. In some of the better
> custom homes, the front door(s) are massive iron with swing out leaded
> glass inserts, weighing in around 400# each.
>
> Another feature seen in the upscale homes is stepped, or coffered,
> ceilings- many with crown mold as well on the vertical portions. Pot
> shelves are found in even the tract homes. Drywall corners are rounded,
> rather than square, and there is every conceivable finish to the drywall
> other than flat and smooth. Even in the multi million dollar homes,
> though, trim and baseboards are almost always painted and of man-made
> material, rather than hardwood. Hardwood trim and doors are simply not
> evident.
>
> What amenities, features and the like do you find in your own area of the
> country, such as the above?
>
> Nonny

"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Aug 12, 12:24 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:02:00 -0500, Leon wrote:
>> > Brick and stone are the bones of the house and usually show the best
>> > when they are designed to work that way. Some house styles, like
>> > Federalist houses, pretty much require all brick veneer.
>>
>> I still remember my father, when looking for a home back in 1950 or so,
>> turning up his nose at brick veneer. None of that "fake" stuff for him,
>> he wanted a real brick house - and he found one!
>>
>> I'm guessing that the '50s were about the time that brick veneer started
>> being used to lower costs.
>
> Solid wall masonry construction is not a good choice in all climates,
> and energy code requirements for a wall's R-value are a hang up of
> plan examiners and building inspectors. It's tough to argue the
> thermal mass point with them.

Having grown up in a 1840ish-built home with 16" thick brick exterior walls,
I have to agree about the benefit of mass. However, beyond the price of
materials, solid masonry construction doesn't easily permit wires or pipe to
be installed, modified or maintained. Insulation, if required, is also a
problem, as is the cost of labor building it.

Nonny

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:34:28 -0700 (PDT), Sonny wrote:

> On Aug 11, 11:01 pm, basilisk <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:26:48 -0700, Sonny wrote:
>>>> What part of the country?
>>
>>> Lafayette, Louisiana
>>
>>> Sonny
>>
>> Oh, damn Sonny,
>>
>> I've had some odd connections with Lafayette,
>> once back in the eighties, me and a cohort were
>> threatened at gunpoint by a robber
>
> We have our share of misfits.... and some of them aren't even
> politicians, either.
>
>> that had just knocked
>> off a gas station in Lafayette,
>
> North side of town?

I can't recall for sure, it was close to I-10 and there was
a sugar mill close by.
>
>>
>> Then some years later my (ex)wife ran off with a Cajun
>> from there. I don't hold it against Cajuns or Lafayette,
>> best thing that ever happen to me.
>
> .... and we have our share of both of those kind, too, some having
> been known to hop from neighborhood to neighborhood.
>
> Sonny

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:26:48 -0700, Sonny wrote:


>> What part of the country?
>>
>>
>
> Lafayette, Louisiana
>
> Sonny

Oh, damn Sonny,

I've had some odd connections with Lafayette,
once back in the eighties, me and a cohort were
threatened at gunpoint by a robber that had just knocked
off a gas station in Lafayette, fortunately, neither of
us or the gas station attendant were injured.

Then some years later my (ex)wife ran off with a Cajun
from there. I don't hold it against Cajuns or Lafayette,
best thing that ever happen to me.

basilisk



--
A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse

On Aug 16, 12:26=A0am, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:10:04 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy <[email protected]=
m>
> wrote:
>
> >On Aug 11, 6:02=A0pm, "Nonnymus" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >[snipped for brevity]
> >>What amenities, features and the like do you find in your own area of t=
he
> >>country, such as the above?
>
> >One amenity I will now insist on is one of those huge frying pan-sized
> >shower heads with its own city-water booster pump.
>
> "Rain Heads"? =A0We have one in the ceiling, but no booster pump. =A0It's=
OK,
> since we have 9' ceilings. =A0Otherwise it wouldn't work at all. =A0The p=
roblem is
> that the shower has no other source of water and being 6'x6' (water from =
the
> rain head doesn't come anywhere close to the walls) it's very difficult t=
o
> clean. =A0I've been threatening to put another head in, but I'm not sure =
how to
> do a diverter for it and I *hate* plumbing.

...and now the Nanny State wants to regulate the water those rain
heads use.... just when we fell in love with ours. Commiesunsabitches.

On Aug 11, 6:02=A0pm, "Nonnymus" <[email protected]> wrote:
[snipped for brevity]
>What amenities, features and the like do you find in your own area of the
>country, such as the above?

One amenity I will now insist on is one of those huge frying pan-sized
shower heads with its own city-water booster pump.

Swingman wrote:
> On 8/16/2010 7:18 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>> On 8/15/2010 9:46 PM, Morgans wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lets get back to real issues about leaking skylights. Velux makes
>>>> the best, they don't leak.
>>>
>>> Let's get back to reality instead of naivete ... any skylight will
>>> leak under the right circumstances. Just like their "40MPH
>>> hurricane" test, the "they don't leak" slogan is a marketing
>>> gimmick for the naive.
>>
>> Sure - but no more so than the truth that under the right
>> conditions, and window will leak. Like I said, we have them in
>> almost every upstairs room in the house and not a drop of water in
>> all the years they've been up there. Well - except for a brief
>> period when there wasn't a proper seal along the chimney and heavy
>> rains would find their way to the bed, by following the ceiling
>> boards to the skylight trim. But that's different...
>
> Like I said, Mike ... I like the particular product, but have learned
> to take marketing claims with a grain of salt. AAMOF, I routinely
> debunk the claim of those who refuse to use skylight because "they
> leak". That said, Velux has no more control over who installs their
> products then any other product, and, as with any penetration of a
> buildings shell, it's the _installation_ that overrides the product
> when it comes to leaks ... just as true for doors, windows, vents,
> etc as it is for skylights, Velux or otherwise.

Agreed. Violently, even...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Swingman wrote:
> On 8/15/2010 9:46 PM, Morgans wrote:
>
>> Lets get back to real issues about leaking skylights. Velux makes
>> the best, they don't leak.
>
> Let's get back to reality instead of naivete ... any skylight will
> leak under the right circumstances. Just like their "40MPH hurricane"
> test, the "they don't leak" slogan is a marketing gimmick for the
> naive.

Sure - but no more so than the truth that under the right conditions, and
window will leak. Like I said, we have them in almost every upstairs room
in the house and not a drop of water in all the years they've been up there.
Well - except for a brief period when there wasn't a proper seal along the
chimney and heavy rains would find their way to the bed, by following the
ceiling boards to the skylight trim. But that's different...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 8/15/2010 8:33 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On 8/15/2010 8:43 PM, Morgans wrote:
>> "Leon"<[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>> Most likely the heat but you have to consider the vulnerability during a
>>> wind storm also, the occasional hurricane comes to mind. ;~)

>> Wind and hurricanes will cause no problems, unless of course it is a

> Or unless the hurricane manages to deposit a brick in the middle of it.
> Grok the concept--it's glass--a hurricane can find a way to bust it.

I'm pretty sure that's what Leon was referring to, not "wind" damage per se.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the product ... although looking their
brochure/specs last year before putting one in a new house, I recall
laughing at seeing they were "hurricane tested" with a 9 pound tubafour
at 40MPH.

There ain't no such thing as a 40 MPH "hurricane".

... and year before last, here in Houston and directly over my roof,
that nine pound tubafour would have been traveling at 110 MPH. :(

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 8/13/2010 10:20 PM, George wrote:

> FWIW, we had them on our home and they were great. As Leon said, the
> glass was broken by a branch on one, and another developed fogging.
> Outside of those two glitches, we were pleased and would use them again
> if we needed a traditional skylight.
>
> A home we're considering has these in an inside hallway. I'm amazed at
> the amount of light they give off, and there doesn't seem to be heat
> associated with it.
> http://www.solatube.com/

I installed one in the master closet of a house I built for a client
last year and everytime I walked out of that closet during trimout I
reached over to the wall plate to switch off the light.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Aug 13, 1:53=A0pm, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "DGDevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > "Nonnymus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> >> What amenities, features and the like do you find in your own area of =
the
> >> country, such as the above?
>
> > What some people call "amenities" often look like "fads" to my wife and=
I.
> > We've looked at some new homes and remodeled homes where we both saw
> > features we predicted would look hopelessly dated in not too many years=
.
> > And frankly some currently popular features don't appeal to us even if
> > they're still fashionable, e.g. granite countertops. =A0To each his own=
of
> > course, but fashion is a fickle mistress.
>
> Very true. =A0Today, appliances are SS, where 15 years ago, the best kitc=
hens
> had the built-in look, where refrigerators and dishwashers, for instance,
> had a panel to match the kitchen cabinets. =A0The color of wood changes, =
also.
> I saw one home that hit me as obviously '70-90's. =A0The flooring was nat=
ural
> laid oak, as were the cabinets. =A0Even things like built-ins have decrea=
sed
> in today's taste. =A0Our first home had a built-in set of doors and drawe=
rs
> between two closets in the master bedroom and also for linen in the hallw=
ay.
> You don't see that anymore.

You do see large walk-ins with all that stuff inside. The one thing
that our (2YO) house is missing that gripes my wife is no linen closet
on the first floor. There is one on the second, but it's mostly
useless since the master is down.

> What I see in today's market are natural materials more than man-made. =
=A0One
> person commented that Corian and Silestone were "cheap substitutes" for t=
he
> "better" Granite and marble on counter tops. =A0Likewise, Travertine is a=
very
> popular flooring in upper end homes, with large tile being a close second=
.
> It then spirals downward into the man-made things like laminates, vinyls =
and
> even carpet is not as popular here as it once was.

Corian was "cheap"? I never liked the stuff but never considered it
in any way cheap, even compared to granite. Vinyl was an immediate
'X' when we were looking a couple of years back.

> OTOH, things like skylights and sky tubes are increasingly popular, and
> they're something that will probably remain in fashion for a long while.

I like the looks of them but get concerned about anything poking
through the roof. The idiot builders seem to have a hard enough time
with chimneys. Giving them more to screw up seems like a bad idea.

On Aug 13, 1:20=A0pm, "DGDevin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Nonnymus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > What amenities, features and the like do you find in your own area of t=
he
> > country, such as the above?
>
> What some people call "amenities" often look like "fads" to my wife and I=
.
> We've looked at some new homes and remodeled homes where we both saw
> features we predicted would look hopelessly dated in not too many years.
> And frankly some currently popular features don't appeal to us even if
> they're still fashionable, e.g. granite countertops. =A0To each his own o=
f
> course, but fashion is a fickle mistress.

Some do, I suppose to everyone. I'm not so thrilled with painted
trim, arches, or rounded drywall corners. OTOH, SWMBO loves her
granite counter tops and would never have anything else, now (well,
perhaps quartz). They're great for baking. Wood floors are another
"fad" that's back "in".

On 8/16/2010 7:18 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 8/15/2010 9:46 PM, Morgans wrote:
>>
>>> Lets get back to real issues about leaking skylights. Velux makes
>>> the best, they don't leak.
>>
>> Let's get back to reality instead of naivete ... any skylight will
>> leak under the right circumstances. Just like their "40MPH hurricane"
>> test, the "they don't leak" slogan is a marketing gimmick for the
>> naive.
>
> Sure - but no more so than the truth that under the right conditions, and
> window will leak. Like I said, we have them in almost every upstairs room
> in the house and not a drop of water in all the years they've been up there.
> Well - except for a brief period when there wasn't a proper seal along the
> chimney and heavy rains would find their way to the bed, by following the
> ceiling boards to the skylight trim. But that's different...

Like I said, Mike ... I like the particular product, but have learned to
take marketing claims with a grain of salt. AAMOF, I routinely debunk
the claim of those who refuse to use skylight because "they leak". That
said, Velux has no more control over who installs their products then
any other product, and, as with any penetration of a buildings shell,
it's the _installation_ that overrides the product when it comes to
leaks ... just as true for doors, windows, vents, etc as it is for
skylights, Velux or otherwise.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> ...and now the Nanny State wants to regulate the water those rain
>> heads use.... just when we fell in love with ours. Commiesunsabitches.
>
> The local utility company sent out "free" showerheads to everybody. Along
> with a passionate plea to "save water". Made it sound like a divine
> mission from God or something.
>
> Since it was nicer than the one I had, I stupidly installed it. It
> immediately created a number of leaks that dripped down into the basement.
> I had to do some repairs. Every thing worked fine until I put that
> showerhead from Hell on there.
>
> I called them up. Of course, they acted stupid and refused to compensate
> us for the damage that their "free" showerhead caused.
>
> The lesson learned? BEWARE of strangers offering "free" showerheads!!

Some years ago, our town gave us "Shower Saver" brand heads. I like it much
better than the regular heads. The amount of water is sufficient and it has
a nice pattern.

It is impossible to get a decent shower at a hotel though, they all suck.

"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:MX%9o.49336$F%[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Most likely the heat but you have to consider the vulnerability during a
>> wind storm also, the occasional hurricane comes to mind. ;~)
>
> Have you ever personally installed a velux skylight, or been present
> while one was being installed?

Never have installed, but in homes going back to the 80's have done repair
work around the ceiling at penetration.

>
> They are the best in the buisness. I will not say that there has never
> been a failure of the double pane glass unit, but of all the ones I
> installed while actively contracting nearly 20 years ago, there have been
> no problems, at all.


Not going to argue with the possibility of Velux being the best but I can
assure you they were not the only ones that were manufacutring sky lights in
the 80's. The worse seemed to be the rectangle units, in many cases
condensation was the culprit.




> Wind and hurricanes will cause no problems, unless of course it is a Cat 4
> hurricane, and the whole roof and house blows away. That might cause one
> to leak a little bit. ;-)
> --
> Jim in NC
>

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Currently My wife and I are preparing to build a new home. Certainly not
> high end but it will most likely have most of what you have mentioned. I
> suppose it is all relative as a for instance your mention of 10' ceilings
> being in lower custom homes. Our 30 year old "starter home" has 10 foot
> ceilings. Rounded corner sheet rock has been the norm in all new
> construction for 15 + years. Hard wood trim is common but typically a
> marginal up grade. What is a Pot Shelf? Skupltured/stepped ceilings and
> crown molding are available in starter homes. Fancy front doors are
> common.
> Starting to see fire places offered in the back yard patio. Granite is
> common place and a 3 car garage is becoming a common neighborhoow sighting
> for homes in new neighborhoods. Our new home will have a 3 car garage.
>
> At the moment the home we are most interested in and appointed the way we
> want will have, 10" ceilings, Island kitchen, extra study room, 3
> bedrooms, formal dining, breakfast nook, 3 car garage, brick 3 sides,
> extral high roof line, tile in all rooms except bedrooms, oval tub and
> seperate shower, remote controlled fire place, radient barrier decking,
> double pained low-e windows, Cat 5 media wiring to name the most obvious
> and just under 2100 sq. ft. single story. $148K.

What area of the country would this be in? The price is a bit lower than
found here in NV, but not my much. We have actual new starter homes
advertised in the $80/sf range, but by the time you are ready to live in
them, completing what's left off, you're at $100. To get to where you're
talking, it'd be $150/sf or more.

FWIW, a pot shelf, as they're called here, is a decorative "step" about 30"
or so from a dinette, dining room or living room wall, presumably to set
greenery, decorative plates or pots, or vases on. It's near the ceiling and
usually reached by a step ladder.

On 8/11/2010 7:21 PM, Nonnymus wrote:

> What area of the country would this be in? The price is a bit lower than
> found here in NV, but not my much. We have actual new starter homes
> advertised in the $80/sf range, but by the time you are ready to live in
> them, completing what's left off, you're at $100. To get to where you're
> talking, it'd be $150/sf or more.

Houston suburbs.

A good time to buy a house in this area. Since this last tax break
expired, sales have slowed considerably and volume builders are starting
to feel the pinch, again.

I've looked at Leon's floor plan and it is an excellent deal, and a sign
of the times. And Leon certainly knows more than enough about
construction to be comfortable with the build quality.

I certainly can't build a comparable home in the near SW area for that
sf price. Then again, I couldn't give away a single story house where I
build, even though I would prefer one myself and think it is a smarter
choice.

AAMOF, if it weren't for SWMBO, who's business is her passion and
extremely location sensitive, I'd consider selling and following Leon's
"upgrade" to a four car garage. :)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>
>>>> In Houston it seems the slykights are increasingly unpopular, again
>>>> back on the 80's these were popular but leaked. Now I don't see
>>>> them so much in new construction.
>>>
>>> Use VeLux skylights. There will never be a leak problem, with the
>>> flashing system they use.
>>> --
>>> Jim in NC
>>>
>>
>> IIRC the lens? would crack.
>
> Maybe in the heat you guys get down in Houston - but I've had them in my
> roof for over 20 years in Central NY, and not a single problem. Of course
> up here, you have to be mindful of them when you're shoveling the roof off
> in the winter.


Most likely the heat but you have to consider the vulnerability during a
wind storm also, the occasional hurricane comes to mind. ;~)

"DGDevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Nonnymus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> What amenities, features and the like do you find in your own area of the
>> country, such as the above?
>
> What some people call "amenities" often look like "fads" to my wife and I.
> We've looked at some new homes and remodeled homes where we both saw
> features we predicted would look hopelessly dated in not too many years.
> And frankly some currently popular features don't appeal to us even if
> they're still fashionable, e.g. granite countertops. To each his own of
> course, but fashion is a fickle mistress.

Very true. Today, appliances are SS, where 15 years ago, the best kitchens
had the built-in look, where refrigerators and dishwashers, for instance,
had a panel to match the kitchen cabinets. The color of wood changes, also.
I saw one home that hit me as obviously '70-90's. The flooring was natural
laid oak, as were the cabinets. Even things like built-ins have decreased
in today's taste. Our first home had a built-in set of doors and drawers
between two closets in the master bedroom and also for linen in the hallway.
You don't see that anymore.

What I see in today's market are natural materials more than man-made. One
person commented that Corian and Silestone were "cheap substitutes" for the
"better" Granite and marble on counter tops. Likewise, Travertine is a very
popular flooring in upper end homes, with large tile being a close second.
It then spirals downward into the man-made things like laminates, vinyls and
even carpet is not as popular here as it once was.

OTOH, things like skylights and sky tubes are increasingly popular, and
they're something that will probably remain in fashion for a long while.

Nonny

"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> Very true. Today, appliances are SS, where 15 years ago, the best
> kitchens had the built-in look, where refrigerators and dishwashers, for
> instance, had a panel to match the kitchen cabinets. The color of wood
> changes, also. I saw one home that hit me as obviously '70-90's. The
> flooring was natural laid oak, as were the cabinets. Even things like
> built-ins have decreased in today's taste. Our first home had a built-in
> set of doors and drawers between two closets in the master bedroom and
> also for linen in the hallway. You don't see that anymore.

Funny how region has a lot to do with thends. SS was popular in the Houston
30 years ago and coming back again.
>
> What I see in today's market are natural materials more than man-made.
> One person commented that Corian and Silestone were "cheap substitutes"
> for the "better" Granite and marble on counter tops. Likewise, Travertine
> is a very popular flooring in upper end homes, with large tile being a
> close second. It then spirals downward into the man-made things like
> laminates, vinyls and even carpet is not as popular here as it once was.

I would not necesserily consider Silestone a cheap substitute foe granite
nor would I consider granite better.


>
> OTOH, things like skylights and sky tubes are increasingly popular, and
> they're something that will probably remain in fashion for a long while.


In Houston it seems the slykights are increasingly unpopular, again back on
the 80's these were popular but leaked. Now I don't see them so much in new
construction.

"Nonnymus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>

>
> What area of the country would this be in? The price is a bit lower than
> found here in NV, but not my much. We have actual new starter homes
> advertised in the $80/sf range, but by the time you are ready to live in
> them, completing what's left off, you're at $100. To get to where you're
> talking, it'd be $150/sf or more.

Houston metro area.


>
> FWIW, a pot shelf, as they're called here, is a decorative "step" about
> 30" or so from a dinette, dining room or living room wall, presumably to
> set greenery, decorative plates or pots, or vases on. It's near the
> ceiling and usually reached by a step ladder.

Ohh! yes those are pretty common place, not unusual to see several in a
home. My wife refers to them as dust collectors that will be hard to get to
to vacuum. From what I have seen in most homes that I have done some work
in, her observations are correct. In fact many I have seen require more
than a common 6' step ladder to reach. They are often 3-4' deep and at
least 10' from the floor in 2 story homes. The are best viewed from a stair
way or cat walk.

On 8/16/2010 11:46 AM, chaniarts wrote:

> i used recycled glass (old dining room tabletops) as some of the aggregate
> when i poured my concrete bar tops. this left clear looking holes into the
> colored concrete.

Here's that "recycled glass" counter top that Leon was talking about:

http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/StrawbaleKitchen#5456407267674157986

... apparently the blue bits are the vodka bottles that were hand picked
from some of their favorite bars in the Austin area.

I hated it when I first saw it and thought it look like a barber pole on
a small town street corner, but it has since grown on me. I'm also color
blind, so the colors don't make an impression ... it was the "busyness"
and the light color that originally made me dislike it, and, for a
while, thought it simply ruined _my_ beautiful cabinet job. :)

I guess I was getting tired of that dark, granite that everyone wants
around here.

I also care for the busy, wild, wood grain pattern that the client
wanted .. but it's not my kitchen, and Leon and I just try to build them
what they want.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"d.williams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Currently My wife and I are preparing to build a new home. Certainly not
>> high end but it will most likely have most of what you have mentioned. I
>> suppose it is all relative as a for instance your mention of 10' ceilings
>> being in lower custom homes. Our 30 year old "starter home" has 10 foot
>> ceilings. Rounded corner sheet rock has been the norm in all new
>> construction for 15 + years. Hard wood trim is common but typically a
>> marginal up grade. What is a Pot Shelf? Skupltured/stepped ceilings
>> and crown molding are available in starter homes. Fancy front doors are
>> common.
>> Starting to see fire places offered in the back yard patio. Granite is
>> common place and a 3 car garage is becoming a common neighborhoow
>> sighting for homes in new neighborhoods. Our new home will have a 3 car
>> garage.

Garages here are incredible. In the Midwest, a good 2-car would be 22 X 22
or even 24' deep. Here, if you get 20', it's considered a jumbo. Doors for
a 2-car are almost always 16' wide and singles are 8' wide. It's common to
see a single and double door side by side. However, the single garage is
only 14' or so deep and really intended for storage. Since storage isn't
something builders think will sell for much, it's absolutely minimal in
tract and even semi-custom homes. We see many whole subdivisions where
people park on the drive so that they can use the garage for storage. I've
seen homes advertised with 4-car garages, only to see a single 16' door.
The person will explain that "the garage is extra deep, so I'm calling it a
4-car." <grin>

Nonny

"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>Even things like built-ins have decreased in today's taste. Our first home
>had a built-in set of doors and drawers between two closets in the master
>bedroom and also for linen in the hallway. You don't see that anymore.

Some built-ins make sense as anyone who ever lives there is going to need
certain forms of storage in certain areas. But I can see people wanting to
set up rooms as they please and thus not wanting a lot of built-ins, e.g.
built-in book cases push you towards using that room as a library or office
when maybe you'd rather it was a guest bedroom.

> What I see in today's market are natural materials more than man-made.
> One person commented that Corian and Silestone were "cheap substitutes"
> for the "better" Granite and marble on counter tops.

When we remodel our kitchen (next on the list after a successful bedroom
renovation that is getting rave reviews from SWMBO) I'm pushing for recycled
ground glass in concrete or resin for the counters. It's as close to
bullet-proof as you can get, which granite or marble certainly are not.

> Likewise, Travertine is a very popular flooring in upper end homes, with
> large tile being a close second. It then spirals downward into the
> man-made things like laminates, vinyls and even carpet is not as popular
> here as it once was.

I can tolerate tile in the bathroom, but anywhere else I can't stand
it--cold, slippery, noisy. I like hardwood floors since they look good and
are easy to maintain. We have area rugs here and there, but wall-to-wall
carpeting (something I grew up with) is more trouble than it is worth to me
now--gimme that oak!

> OTOH, things like skylights and sky tubes are increasingly popular, and
> they're something that will probably remain in fashion for a long while.

Yup, they make sense because it isn't like the cost of energy is going down
over the long term.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote

> Most likely the heat but you have to consider the vulnerability during a
> wind storm also, the occasional hurricane comes to mind. ;~)

Have you ever personally installed a velux skylight, or been present while
one was being installed?

They are the best in the buisness. I will not say that there has never been
a failure of the double pane glass unit, but of all the ones I installed
while actively contracting nearly 20 years ago, there have been no problems,
at all.

Wind and hurricanes will cause no problems, unless of course it is a Cat 4
hurricane, and the whole roof and house blows away. That might cause one to
leak a little bit. ;-)
--
Jim in NC

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>
>>
>> Having grown up in a 1840ish-built home with 16" thick brick exterior
>> walls, I have to agree about the benefit of mass. However, beyond the
>> price of materials, solid masonry construction doesn't easily permit
>> wires or pipe to be installed, modified or maintained. Insulation, if
>> required, is also a problem, as is the cost of labor building it.
>>
>> Nonny
>
> Typically concrete walls have a very low R-value when compared to typical
> insulated stud walls. In 1986 the car dealer I worked for built a new
> state of the art facility. Solid poured on site contrete walls. Inside
> the air conditioned offices the walls were quite warm to the touch from
> the afternoon sun.

From what I read about that kind of massive wall, they almost need to be
"tuned" to the area. Ideally, the cooler night would offset the warmer day
and the overall climate wouldn't have much summer/winter swing, such as in a
desert setting. There, clear nights are cold and days are hot, but
winter-summer is not that much different. If it's much colder than warmer
or the opposite, the mass has less significance. In one city were we lived,
it was colder than the dickens and a poured concrete wall would have
required extensive thermal break and further insulation to be effective.

Nonny

On 8/15/2010 9:46 PM, Morgans wrote:

> Lets get back to real issues about leaking skylights. Velux makes the best,
> they don't leak.

Let's get back to reality instead of naivete ... any skylight will leak
under the right circumstances. Just like their "40MPH hurricane" test,
the "they don't leak" slogan is a marketing gimmick for the naive.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>

>
> Having grown up in a 1840ish-built home with 16" thick brick exterior
> walls, I have to agree about the benefit of mass. However, beyond the
> price of materials, solid masonry construction doesn't easily permit wires
> or pipe to be installed, modified or maintained. Insulation, if required,
> is also a problem, as is the cost of labor building it.
>
> Nonny

Typically concrete walls have a very low R-value when compared to typical
insulated stud walls. In 1986 the car dealer I worked for built a new state
of the art facility. Solid poured on site contrete walls. Inside the air
conditioned offices the walls were quite warm to the touch from the
afternoon sun.

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:05:56 -0500, Swingman wrote:

> On 8/16/2010 11:46 AM, chaniarts wrote:
>
>> i used recycled glass (old dining room tabletops) as some of the aggregate
>> when i poured my concrete bar tops. this left clear looking holes into the
>> colored concrete.
>
> Here's that "recycled glass" counter top that Leon was talking about:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/StrawbaleKitchen#5456407267674157986
>
> ... apparently the blue bits are the vodka bottles that were hand picked
> from some of their favorite bars in the Austin area.
>
> I hated it when I first saw it and thought it look like a barber pole on
> a small town street corner, but it has since grown on me. I'm also color
> blind, so the colors don't make an impression ... it was the "busyness"
> and the light color that originally made me dislike it, and, for a
> while, thought it simply ruined _my_ beautiful cabinet job. :)
>
> I guess I was getting tired of that dark, granite that everyone wants
> around here.
>
> I also care for the busy, wild, wood grain pattern that the client
> wanted .. but it's not my kitchen, and Leon and I just try to build them
> what they want.

Nice,

I have never seen toe kick drawers, I don't think they would work for me
though, being I just flooded the kithchen for the second time in 3 years.

CRS moment, walked off and left both sinks plugged and water running,
thirty towels later the kithchen was mostly dry. sigh.

basilisk

On Aug 16, 1:49=A0am, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> =A0"Lee Michaels" wrote:
> > Why does this sound like a girl I used to know?
>
> ------------------------
> Cause you slept thru Fluid Mechanics.
>
> Lew

NASCAR fans Luuv restrictor plate showering.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:23:57 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> Typically concrete walls have a very low R-value when compared to typical
>> insulated stud walls. In 1986 the car dealer I worked for built a new
>> state of the art facility. Solid poured on site contrete walls. Inside
>> the air conditioned offices the walls were quite warm to the touch from
>> the afternoon sun.
>>
>
>That is why you use Insulating Concrete Forms. Strength of masonry,
>efficiency of good insulation.
>Such as:
>www.integraspec.com
>www.greenblock.com

Yeah, ICFs and SIPs are the only way to build any more.
http://www.sips.org/content/about/index.cfm?pageId=7 example

I think all these architects, designers, etc. read the same books.

Here, for upscale, Interior: stone and solid wood exposed beams
(cypress being one of the premiums) are favorites. Stucco exterior.
Quite a few arched windows & doors, rather than squared. Landscape:
Italian & Greek themes are popular... some western/ranch (USA), but
often a combo of different ones, for particular areas of the lawn.

For moderate housing, 250K - 500K, similar amenities as above, but
many of the homes are built 10' apart, in many subdivisions (as with
100K-250K homes)... no lawn to speak of. Packed in, this way, takes
away from all the expense put into the home, in my opinion.... It's
not a home, but simply a house.

For some with a bit of land, 2 - 5 acres in town or immediate
outskirts, the classic barn (smartly painted), for an outbuilding,
hasn't completely disappeared, yet, but its function is now for boat
storage, small tractor/mower, maybe a small flatbed trailer, air
compressor, misc storage, etc. .... electricity, plumbing....

Sonny

On Aug 12, 12:24=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:02:00 -0500, Leon wrote:
> > Brick and stone are the bones of the house and usually show the best
> > when they are designed to work that way. =A0Some house styles, like
> > Federalist houses, pretty much require all brick veneer.
>
> I still remember my father, when looking for a home back in 1950 or so,
> turning up his nose at brick veneer. =A0None of that "fake" stuff for him=
,
> he wanted a real brick house - and he found one!
>
> I'm guessing that the '50s were about the time that brick veneer started
> being used to lower costs.

Solid wall masonry construction is not a good choice in all climates,
and energy code requirements for a wall's R-value are a hang up of
plan examiners and building inspectors. It's tough to argue the
thermal mass point with them.

R

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>> In Houston it seems the slykights are increasingly unpopular, again back
>>> on the 80's these were popular but leaked. Now I don't see them so much
>>> in new construction.
>>
>> Use VeLux skylights. There will never be a leak problem, with the
>> flashing system they use.
>> --
>> Jim in NC
>>
>
> IIRC the lens? would crack.
>

FWIW, we had them on our home and they were great. As Leon said, the glass
was broken by a branch on one, and another developed fogging. Outside of
those two glitches, we were pleased and would use them again if we needed a
traditional skylight.

A home we're considering has these in an inside hallway. I'm amazed at the
amount of light they give off, and there doesn't seem to be heat associated
with it.
http://www.solatube.com/

Nonny

On Aug 11, 11:01=A0pm, basilisk <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:26:48 -0700, Sonny wrote:
> >> What part of the country?
>
> > Lafayette, Louisiana
>
> > Sonny
>
> Oh, damn Sonny,
>
> I've had some odd connections with Lafayette,
> once back in the eighties, me and a cohort were
> threatened at gunpoint by a robber

We have our share of misfits.... and some of them aren't even
politicians, either.

> that had just knocked
> off a gas station in Lafayette,

North side of town?

>
> Then some years later my (ex)wife ran off with a Cajun
> from there. I don't hold it against Cajuns or Lafayette,
> best thing that ever happen to me.

.... and we have our share of both of those kind, too, some having
been known to hop from neighborhood to neighborhood.

Sonny

On Aug 14, 7:56=A0am, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote innews:2cednfmhNdp5jPvRnZ2dnUVZ_u=
[email protected]:
>
>
>
> > But the cost of lighting is. Florescent... CFL... LED.
>
> Sunlight's the cheapest of them all.
>


Especially at night when nobody's using it.

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote

> Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the product ... although looking their
> brochure/specs last year before putting one in a new house, I recall
> laughing at seeing they were "hurricane tested" with a 9 pound tubafour at
> 40MPH.
>
> There ain't no such thing as a 40 MPH "hurricane".

I would bet that on fairly low slope roofs, a straight line wind would hit
an object into a skylight at a glancing blow, and the direct impact would be
less than 40 MPH.

But then, this has stopped about being a real discussion of leaking
skylights, hasn't it. If you had exposed glass in windows or doors on a
house in a hurricane, if you did not want to have leaks because of blown
object damage, you would have installed hurricane shutters, or temp. plywood
protection.

Lets get back to real issues about leaking skylights. Velux makes the best,
they don't leak. If you don't want to have an extra hole in your roof,
fine. I understand that. Myself, I wish I had a skylight, or several, in
every room in the house. I live for natural lighting.

Oh, the usual disclaimer: I do not work for Velux, and am only a
satisfied..... You get the drift for the rest of it.
--
Jim in NC

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 06:01:34 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>> ...and now the Nanny State wants to regulate the water those rain
>>> heads use.... just when we fell in love with ours. Commiesunsabitches.
>>
>> The local utility company sent out "free" showerheads to everybody. Along
>> with a passionate plea to "save water". Made it sound like a divine
>> mission from God or something.
>>
>> Since it was nicer than the one I had, I stupidly installed it. It
>> immediately created a number of leaks that dripped down into the basement.
>> I had to do some repairs. Every thing worked fine until I put that
>> showerhead from Hell on there.
>>
>> I called them up. Of course, they acted stupid and refused to compensate
>> us for the damage that their "free" showerhead caused.
>>
>> The lesson learned? BEWARE of strangers offering "free" showerheads!!
>
>Some years ago, our town gave us "Shower Saver" brand heads. I like it much
>better than the regular heads. The amount of water is sufficient and it has
>a nice pattern.
>
>It is impossible to get a decent shower at a hotel though, they all suck.

What, you don't take your channel locks into the hotel with you to
make sure that you get a decent shower? Silly lemming. ;)

--
Invest in America: Buy a CONgresscritter today!

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
.
>
> Houston metro area.

In the 80's I did a bit of business in Houston and liked the suburbs. What
I "think" I recall was a lot of Tuscan style homes, but my memory is getting
old. Like the homes in Austin, I recall a bit more detail and curb appeal
from exterior detailing than in many other areas, also.


>
>
>>
>> FWIW, a pot shelf, as they're called here, is a decorative "step" about
>> 30" or so from a dinette, dining room or living room wall, presumably to
>> set greenery, decorative plates or pots, or vases on. It's near the
>> ceiling and usually reached by a step ladder.
>
> Ohh! yes those are pretty common place, not unusual to see several in a
> home. My wife refers to them as dust collectors that will be hard to get
> to to vacuum. From what I have seen in most homes that I have done some
> work in, her observations are correct. In fact many I have seen require
> more than a common 6' step ladder to reach. They are often 3-4' deep and
> at least 10' from the floor in 2 story homes. The are best viewed from a
> stair way or cat walk.

Here, they seem to run about 2' deep and are quite common in living rooms,
dining rooms and kitchens.

Something else I've noticed here is that walls have a lot of "building out."
By that, I mean a wall, either a shear wall or curtain wall, might have a
second wall built beside it, such as the old plumbing wall or wall for
ductwork. They're done as much for detail as for function. That's where
some of the pot shelves come from: a second wall built beside the real wall
to give detail to a room. Despite the cost of these walls and the small
amounts of wasted space inside them (between the walls), they seem to be
pretty popular. An example might be a master suite that has one corner
rounded, rather than square. The wall between the master suite and an
adjoining room might be straight and square, but on the bedroom side, a
second curved wall is installed, with the enclosed area either ignored or
made to hold a small alcove with shelf for a vase or statue.

Nonny

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:02:00 -0500, Leon wrote:

> Brick and stone are the bones of the house and usually show the best
> when they are designed to work that way. Some house styles, like
> Federalist houses, pretty much require all brick veneer.

I still remember my father, when looking for a home back in 1950 or so,
turning up his nose at brick veneer. None of that "fake" stuff for him,
he wanted a real brick house - and he found one!

I'm guessing that the '50s were about the time that brick veneer started
being used to lower costs.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:52:20 -0700, RicodJour wrote:

> On Aug 12, 12:24 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I still remember my father, when looking for a home back in 1950 or so,
>> turning up his nose at brick veneer.  None of that "fake" stuff for
>> him, he wanted a real brick house - and he found one!
>>
>> I'm guessing that the '50s were about the time that brick veneer
>> started being used to lower costs.
>
> Solid wall masonry construction is not a good choice in all climates,
> and energy code requirements for a wall's R-value are a hang up of plan
> examiners and building inspectors. It's tough to argue the thermal mass
> point with them.
>

This was Louisville, KY. Not the Arctic, but not the tropics either. We
did get some snow. I lived in a similar house, although it was much
older. I can't remember the walls being cold in the winter or warm in
the summer. That dead air in between works pretty well. The one I was
renting had 12' (at least) ceilings and the gaslight fittings were still
there.

This was before residential AC was common and the house was nice and cool
in the summer - in fact it did better than my father's house.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 8/15/2010 8:43 PM, Morgans wrote:
> "Leon"<[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Most likely the heat but you have to consider the vulnerability during a
>> wind storm also, the occasional hurricane comes to mind. ;~)
>
> Have you ever personally installed a velux skylight, or been present while
> one was being installed?
>
> They are the best in the buisness. I will not say that there has never been
> a failure of the double pane glass unit, but of all the ones I installed
> while actively contracting nearly 20 years ago, there have been no problems,
> at all.
>
> Wind and hurricanes will cause no problems, unless of course it is a Cat 4
> hurricane, and the whole roof and house blows away. That might cause one to
> leak a little bit. ;-)

Or unless the hurricane manages to deposit a brick in the middle of it.
Grok the concept--it's glass--a hurricane can find a way to bust it.

On 8/15/2010 9:50 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote:
>
>> There ain't no such thing as a 40 MPH "hurricane".
> --------------------------
> After hurricane Andrew, a test for overhead garage doors that involved
> using a pneumatic cannon firing a 2x4 like a spear into the test door.
>
> If the 2x4 penetrated the door, it failed.
>
> As a result of those tests, foam core fiberglass garage doors were
> born.
>
> Lew

I wonder if fiberglass made with polyester resin is good enough or if they had
to step up to epoxy...

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Swingman wrote:
> On 8/13/2010 10:18 PM, Leon wrote:
>> "DGDevin"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> When we remodel our kitchen (next on the list after a successful
>>> bedroom renovation that is getting rave reviews from SWMBO) I'm
>>> pushing for recycled ground glass in concrete or resin for the
>>> counters. It's as close to bullet-proof as you can get, which
>>> granite or marble certainly are not.
>>
>> Swingman built a house and used that ground glass counter top
>> material, IIRC it had local beer joint broken beer bottle glass in
>> it. Much of the top has chunks of glass on the surface, it is flat,
>> but I have to wonder how bullet-proof that glass is. I could see a
>> heavy object chipping the class. The counter top appearance reminded
>> me of taffy, strange indeed.
>
> There were a lot of vodka bottles in there also ... :)
>
> Recycled glass material is getting BIG in high end kitchens, and I'm
> starting to actually like the look ... it was in the running in that
> kitchen you and I are fixing to crank up on, but they went with quartz
> instead.
>
> There are some recycled glass grades that are the most expensive
> counter top material I've seen, some north of $200 s/f.
>
> The substrate is built in, so it fits right in with the thinner
> counter tops that are also the fad these days ... so you can make the
> base cabinets 3/4" taller.
>
> What I don't like about it is that the base color can vary from piece
> to piece, which really makes matching seams an issue.
>
> Then, most of the folks who make this stuff locally could use a good
> ass kicking ... they have that barefoot "artiste" mentality that does
> not go with good business practices .. like on time delivery.

i used recycled glass (old dining room tabletops) as some of the aggregate
when i poured my concrete bar tops. this left clear looking holes into the
colored concrete.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

"DGDevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>

>
> When we remodel our kitchen (next on the list after a successful bedroom
> renovation that is getting rave reviews from SWMBO) I'm pushing for
> recycled ground glass in concrete or resin for the counters. It's as
> close to bullet-proof as you can get, which granite or marble certainly
> are not.

Swingman built a house and used that ground glass counter top material, IIRC
it had local beer joint broken beer bottle glass in it. Much of the top has
chunks of glass on the surface, it is flat, but I have to wonder how
bullet-proof that glass is. I could see a heavy object chipping the class.
The counter top appearance reminded me of taffy, strange indeed.

RicodJour wrote:

>
> Here's a what not to do picture - too busy and arbitrarily done
> siding:
> http://gzcontracting.info/images/stucco%20glenwood%20str.jpg


Ohhh...quoins too :)

Plus, neat roff, goptta love all those nested peaks and valleys.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d8b204f0-3542-442e-954d-749a2e21724f@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> I think all these architects, designers, etc. read the same books.
>
> Here, for upscale, Interior: stone and solid wood exposed beams
> (cypress being one of the premiums) are favorites. Stucco exterior.
> Quite a few arched windows & doors, rather than squared. Landscape:
> Italian & Greek themes are popular... some western/ranch (USA), but
> often a combo of different ones, for particular areas of the lawn.
>
> For moderate housing, 250K - 500K,

What part of the country?

similar amenities as above, but
> many of the homes are built 10' apart, in many subdivisions (as with
> 100K-250K homes)... no lawn to speak of. Packed in, this way, takes
> away from all the expense put into the home, in my opinion.... It's
> not a home, but simply a house.

I seem to see that home exteriors remain a bit static, while the extra money
is spent on inside and back yard amenities, here in NV.


>
> For some with a bit of land, 2 - 5 acres

A half acre lot in Las Vegas/Henderson is considered huge, and usually
includes a parking area for an RV. We had 6 wooded acres previously, so the
difference is appalling.
\
\
Nonny


in town or immediate
> outskirts, the classic barn (smartly painted), for an outbuilding,
> hasn't completely disappeared, yet, but its function is now for boat
> storage, small tractor/mower, maybe a small flatbed trailer, air
> compressor, misc storage, etc. .... electricity, plumbing....
>
> Sonny
>

On 8/13/2010 10:18 PM, Leon wrote:
> "DGDevin"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>
>>
>> When we remodel our kitchen (next on the list after a successful bedroom
>> renovation that is getting rave reviews from SWMBO) I'm pushing for
>> recycled ground glass in concrete or resin for the counters. It's as
>> close to bullet-proof as you can get, which granite or marble certainly
>> are not.
>
> Swingman built a house and used that ground glass counter top material, IIRC
> it had local beer joint broken beer bottle glass in it. Much of the top has
> chunks of glass on the surface, it is flat, but I have to wonder how
> bullet-proof that glass is. I could see a heavy object chipping the class.
> The counter top appearance reminded me of taffy, strange indeed.

There were a lot of vodka bottles in there also ... :)

Recycled glass material is getting BIG in high end kitchens, and I'm
starting to actually like the look ... it was in the running in that
kitchen you and I are fixing to crank up on, but they went with quartz
instead.

There are some recycled glass grades that are the most expensive counter
top material I've seen, some north of $200 s/f.

The substrate is built in, so it fits right in with the thinner counter
tops that are also the fad these days ... so you can make the base
cabinets 3/4" taller.

What I don't like about it is that the base color can vary from piece to
piece, which really makes matching seams an issue.

Then, most of the folks who make this stuff locally could use a good ass
kicking ... they have that barefoot "artiste" mentality that does not go
with good business practices .. like on time delivery.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 12:59:45 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Aug 14, 7:56 am, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected]:
>>
>> > But the cost of lighting is. Florescent... CFL... LED.
>>
>> Sunlight's the cheapest of them all.
>
>Especially at night when nobody's using it.

Ah, you betcha. There are lighting kits available for Solatubes
nowadays. They look funny from the outside at night, kinda spacy.
http://www.google.com/search?q=solatube+light+kit

"Nonnymus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> What amenities, features and the like do you find in your own area of the
> country, such as the above?

What some people call "amenities" often look like "fads" to my wife and I.
We've looked at some new homes and remodeled homes where we both saw
features we predicted would look hopelessly dated in not too many years.
And frankly some currently popular features don't appeal to us even if
they're still fashionable, e.g. granite countertops. To each his own of
course, but fashion is a fickle mistress.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Typically concrete walls have a very low R-value when compared to typical
> insulated stud walls. In 1986 the car dealer I worked for built a new
> state of the art facility. Solid poured on site contrete walls. Inside
> the air conditioned offices the walls were quite warm to the touch from
> the afternoon sun.
>

That is why you use Insulating Concrete Forms. Strength of masonry,
efficiency of good insulation.
Such as:
www.integraspec.com
www.greenblock.com

On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 12:59:45 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Aug 14, 7:56 am, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>
>> > But the cost of lighting is. Florescent... CFL... LED.
>>
>> Sunlight's the cheapest of them all.
>>
>
>
>Especially at night when nobody's using it.

Nah, the Chinese use it then, when it's cheaper.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:10:04 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Aug 11, 6:02 pm, "Nonnymus" <[email protected]> wrote:
>[snipped for brevity]
>>What amenities, features and the like do you find in your own area of the
>>country, such as the above?
>
>One amenity I will now insist on is one of those huge frying pan-sized
>shower heads with its own city-water booster pump.

"Rain Heads"? We have one in the ceiling, but no booster pump. It's OK,
since we have 9' ceilings. Otherwise it wouldn't work at all. The problem is
that the shower has no other source of water and being 6'x6' (water from the
rain head doesn't come anywhere close to the walls) it's very difficult to
clean. I've been threatening to put another head in, but I'm not sure how to
do a diverter for it and I *hate* plumbing.

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 01:39:01 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:

>
>
>"Lew Hodgett" wrote
>>
>> "Lee Michaels" wrote:
>>
>>> Since it was nicer than the one I had, I stupidly installed it.
>> -------------------
>> First mistake was not to pop out the flow restrictor in the new shower
>> head.
>>
>> Usually it is little more than an orifice plate.
>>
>Flow restrictor? Orifice plate?
>
>Why does this sound like a girl I used to know?

_Tight_, was she? Yummy!


--
Invest in America: Buy a CONgresscritter today!

"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:4d142494-e294-4390-a80c-934d4e5740b0@g17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 11, 6:37 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Currently My wife and I are preparing to build a new home. Certainly not
> high end but it will most likely have most of what you have mentioned. I
> suppose it is all relative as a for instance your mention of 10' ceilings
> being in lower custom homes. Our 30 year old "starter home" has 10 foot
> ceilings. Rounded corner sheet rock has been the norm in all new
> construction for 15 + years. Hard wood trim is common but typically a
> marginal up grade. What is a Pot Shelf? Skupltured/stepped ceilings and
> crown molding are available in starter homes. Fancy front doors are
> common.
> Starting to see fire places offered in the back yard patio. Granite is
> common place and a 3 car garage is becoming a common neighborhoow sighting
> for homes in new neighborhoods. Our new home will have a 3 car garage.

You mean a 1000 SF workshop, right? Or is SWMBO reading over your
shoulder? ;)

LOL, no more like 540 sq ft. I am dealing with 380 now.

> At the moment the home we are most interested in and appointed the way we
> want will have, 10" ceilings, Island kitchen, extra study room, 3
> bedrooms,
> formal dining, breakfast nook, 3 car garage, brick 3 sides,

What's the fourth side?

Painted Hardi Plank, all exterior other than brick and shingles is Hardi
products.

If I might make an observation about siding...
Around here you'll see some homes which I call Colorform homes.
Remember those plastic sticky things where kids would put a sticky
dress cutout on the two dimensional figure of a girl? They were just
applied. When they do that with siding - just apply it like it's
painted on - it becomes analogous to a Colorform toy.

Brick and stone are the bones of the house and usually show the best
when they are designed to work that way. Some house styles, like
Federalist houses, pretty much require all brick veneer. But if the
house is not such a style, having the brick/stone closer to the ground
and edges and corners, then transitioning to another style of siding
(such as stucco) between and above the brick/stone, can look sharper
and more distinctive than just having it all one way of the other.


This particular bilder does not offer many options in that reguard however
he is 15-20% less expensive than his competition. We do have the option to
have brick on all 4 sides but to tell you the truth I would prefer no brick
and all Hardi.

"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> In Houston it seems the slykights are increasingly unpopular, again back
>> on the 80's these were popular but leaked. Now I don't see them so much
>> in new construction.
>
> Use VeLux skylights. There will never be a leak problem, with the
> flashing system they use.
> --
> Jim in NC
>

IIRC the lens? would crack.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> In Houston it seems the slykights are increasingly unpopular, again back
> on the 80's these were popular but leaked. Now I don't see them so much
> in new construction.

Use VeLux skylights. There will never be a leak problem, with the flashing
system they use.
--
Jim in NC

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Currently My wife and I are preparing to build a new home. Certainly not
> high end but it will most likely have most of what you have mentioned. I
> suppose it is all relative as a for instance your mention of 10' ceilings
> being in lower custom homes. Our 30 year old "starter home" has 10 foot
> ceilings. Rounded corner sheet rock has been the norm in all new
> construction for 15 + years. Hard wood trim is common but typically a
> marginal up grade. What is a Pot Shelf? Skupltured/stepped ceilings and
> crown molding are available in starter homes. Fancy front doors are
> common.
> Starting to see fire places offered in the back yard patio. Granite is
> common place and a 3 car garage is becoming a common neighborhoow sighting
> for homes in new neighborhoods. Our new home will have a 3 car garage.
>
> At the moment the home we are most interested in and appointed the way we
> want will have, 10" ceilings, Island kitchen, extra study room, 3
> bedrooms, formal dining, breakfast nook, 3 car garage, brick 3 sides,
> extral high roof line, tile in all rooms except bedrooms, oval tub and
> seperate shower, remote controlled fire place, radient barrier decking,
> double pained low-e windows, Cat 5 media wiring to name the most obvious
> and just under 2100 sq. ft. single story. $148K.
>
Sounds like that would take care of my needs too. That's a lotta house
for 148K, at least in my neck of the woods. I assume that's no basement and
not including the lot?

We had a neighbor who had two expensive, rectangular, skylights installed in
his family room. They were motorized and could be opened for ventilation.
A few months after installation, he hired a roofer to place a new layer of
felt and tar on the flat roof. After it was done, both skylights leaked.
He called the roofer out and they were again supposedly fixed. . . until the
next rain. This cycle continued for a couple months or more. With Fall
approaching, it was time to get them fixed properly.

My friend, who was a lawyer, drove to the roofer's office and visited with
the owner. He explained that he had been approaching the situation as a
reasonable homeowner who understood that there can be problems with a roof.
However, if he had to return again, metaphorically, it would be wearing his
lawyer hat and it would be something very expensive and messy.

The owner himself accompanied the crew to the house the next day to see if
he could discover the source of the leaks in both skylights. What he found
was incredible. His crew had not realized the skylights could be opened and
had flashed and caulked them as non-operable units. When operated, they
folded back the roofing or flashing material, and then when it rained. . .
How this could have been missed by the crew on return visits was never
understood or explained.

New skylights were purchased and installed by the roofer, and then were
properly flashed in. There were no more leaks and everyone ended up happy.

Nonny