Table Saw Recommendations

If you're just starting out and need something a step above a circular
saw then you'll probably be happy with the Craftsman bench top table
saw for a while. If you're thinking about doing precision woodworking
then you most likely would want to look for something with more
flexibility, adjustability, and stability than this type of saw. I
started out with a Dewalt bench top saw, model 744. It was fine for two
or three years. It had a 24" rip capacity and would handle a full stack
of dado blades. What finally convinced me to move up was the limited
surface area of the top of the saw. It took a lot of effort to manuever
sheet goods and longer stock through the blade. I ended up going with a
Ridgid contractors saw which has a cast iron top, mobile base and
received good reviews. My only minor complaint is that the dust
collection port is shop vac diameter and not 4" dust collector size.
Otherwise I've been very happy with it. Another reason I bought the
Ridgid was that I got it for a great price. I was leaning toward a
Grizzly contractors saw but the Ridgid ended up coming in a couple
hundred dollars cheaper. I took advantage of a special promotion they
had for signing up for a commercial account. I would do some research
in the archives of this newsgroup, read some woodworking magazine
reviews and possibly talk to some fellow woodworkers about their
preferences. Eventually if I ever move up to a larger workshop I would
like to get a cabinet saw with an extension table and 3+ HP. Good luck
and have fun.

Dale

[email protected] wrote:
> I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
> I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
> too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
> it considering how much use I think it will get.
>
> One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:
>
> http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=00921805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>
> Seems like it is a step above the very entry models because it includes
> the collapsible stand, extensions, 15 amps, and dust collector. Don't
> have any experience with the Craftsman brand, but the price seems good.
>
> What more would I get with the more expensive models?

[email protected] wrote:
> I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
> I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
> too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
> it considering how much use I think it will get.
>
> One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:
>
> http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=00921805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>
> Seems like it is a step above the very entry models because it includes
> the collapsible stand, extensions, 15 amps, and dust collector. Don't
> have any experience with the Craftsman brand, but the price seems good.
>
> What more would I get with the more expensive models?

I had one very similar for 13 months (got my money back from sears) and
it worked OK but you could get something like this for about the same
price:
http://richmond.craigslist.org/tls/192386578.html

You are better off with a larger saw if you have the room.

[email protected] wrote:
> I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
> I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
> too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
> it considering how much use I think it will get.
>
> One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:
>
> http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=00921805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>
> Seems like it is a step above the very entry models because it includes
> the collapsible stand, extensions, 15 amps, and dust collector. Don't
> have any experience with the Craftsman brand, but the price seems good.
>
> What more would I get with the more expensive models?

I'd ask a knowledgeable friend to accompany you to check it over first,
with the understanding that corporations don't give anything away.
Extra-low price generally indicates cuts elsewhere.

Contractor saws have compromises of their own, especially typically in
the trunnion braces, making tilt-angle a guess. (See Ian Kirby's
"Accurate Table Saw" for details.)

Your purposes might best be met by one of the "serious" benchtop saws,
like the Ridgid, DeWalt, Makita, etc. Changes for the better are taking
place.

HTH,
J

So from what I am reading it sounds like I can't get anything
worthwhile without spending around $500. Is that true? Can I get
anything decent for around $200 or $250?

Space is at a premium for me - my shop (garage) is rather small, so
that is a factor in my decision.

[email protected] wrote:
> I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
> I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
> too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
> it considering how much use I think it will get.
>
> One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:
>
> http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=00921805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>
> Seems like it is a step above the very entry models because it includes
> the collapsible stand, extensions, 15 amps, and dust collector. Don't
> have any experience with the Craftsman brand, but the price seems good.
>
> What more would I get with the more expensive models?

I have been reading this group for about a year, and never posted for
fear of Spammers getting my address, but I just HAD to chime in here.

I am a cash earning @ home/basement shop cabinet maker, and I started
out on a Craps-man saw similar to the one you listed... The bearings in
the motor went all pear shaped in the first month. After about 5 hours
of total run time under load. (Actual cutting.) Swapped it out under
warantee for a new one, same issue. Upgraded to another higher priced
Crapsman, and this time I sent off for replacement bearings when they
went. Soon there-after, the motor went bang and blew the GFI I had it
plugged into...

Well, I took it to the curb, and never looked back. I will NEVER buy a
Craps-man power tool again. Hand tools, ok, but NEVER a power tool.

>From this experience, may I suggest either one of the mid-range Delta
or Hitachi models. One feature that you will NEED to look for is/are
the miter gauge channels. AVOID the saws with am inverted T shaped
channel. This limits your future capabilities. By the time you're
confident enough to make jigs for the T channels, you'll realize how
horrid they are...

[email protected] wrote:
> So from what I am reading it sounds like I can't get anything
> worthwhile without spending around $500. Is that true? Can I get
> anything decent for around $200 or $250?
>
> Space is at a premium for me - my shop (garage) is rather small, so
> that is a factor in my decision.

Oooh, lookit me, posting twice in the same topic...

My basement shop gets HUGE use, but has about as much floorspace as a
large-ish Galley kitchen. ALL my floor tools roll. ESPECIALLY my
TS/Router Table. (home-built rolling 2 door cabinet with Bench saw and
Router table mounted on top. Dust collection needs tweaking, but...)

There are Free plans all over the net for stuff like this. I based mine
loosly on the "Utimate Table Saw Cabinet" plans that Shop-Notes, or
some similar magazine published about 3 years ago.

Good luck finding a saw. Don't buy this one though. I bought one
about three months ago. Here are the problems.

1. Non-standard miter slot. This model has a slot that is about 3/8"
at the base and 1/2" at the top. No after market add ons will work
with this saw.
2. Makes a lot (I mean a LOT) of noise.
3. No dato blade insert plate is available. There is one on the
bottom of the web page, but it does not fit this saw. The existing
blade insert is so thin that you cannot replace it with a plywood one.
The manual calls out a part number for the insert, but it cannot be
found on the website (main or parts).

I wish I had spent a little more to get a better saw. Hind site is
20/20. I'm looking for a Delta or Ridged at present. Keep an eye out
on your local Craig's list.

nathan
[email protected] wrote:
> I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
> I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
> too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
> it considering how much use I think it will get.
>
> One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:
>
> http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=00921805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>
> Seems like it is a step above the very entry models because it includes
> the collapsible stand, extensions, 15 amps, and dust collector. Don't
> have any experience with the Craftsman brand, but the price seems good.
>
> What more would I get with the more expensive models?

Dead Dog wrote:
> On 22 Aug 2006 13:35:01 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >So from what I am reading it sounds like I can't get anything
> >worthwhile without spending around $500. Is that true? Can I get
> >anything decent for around $200 or $250?
> >
> >Space is at a premium for me - my shop (garage) is rather small, so
> >that is a factor in my decision.
>
>
>
> I have a Delta Contractors saw in great shape that I am looking to get
> rid of since I moved up to a Unisaw.
>
> Where do you live?
>
> Gary

I live in Suffolk, VA

Stoutman wrote:
> > You need one, you just don't know it.
>
> Really? What have you made with yours? Lets see some pics.

Easy Stoutman, it was clearly tongue in cheek.

re/ Cast iron v. aluminum you're right, cast iron is nice, but it's not
always preferable to aluminum. What if the OP wants it for occasional
use only and stores it in a very humid enviroment? In that case
aluminum might be preferable.=20

Just my 2=A2
H

[email protected] wrote:
> So from what I am reading it sounds like I can't get anything
> worthwhile without spending around $500. Is that true? Can I get
> anything decent for around $200 or $250?
>
> Space is at a premium for me - my shop (garage) is rather small, so
> that is a factor in my decision.

You've some great posts in response here on how to examine a TS before
you buy it.

To cut to the chase, I think the best advice is for you to shop for a
good used contractor saw: you'll keep the cost down (plentiful at
$100-$200) and get a decent saw you can use for years. You might even
get lucky and find an inexpensive cabinet saw if you can go stationary.
If at all possible take someone along who is experiences re/ TSs.
Otherwise, read some books or magazine articles on TS virtues and vices
to educate yourself.

If you jump up to $500, there are several good saws: Rigid, Makita,
Bosch, DeWalt, etc.
-----------

[caution: plug coming...]

There is one inexpensive saw that fulfills most of the criteria tossed
around, and with caveats noted you may find that you would be happy
with it, or not: The Ryobi BT3k. At $300 it's a great saw for a certain
kind of user.

Its virtues:

*Decent fence (at the time of its release, it was a great fence among
benchtops. Now so-so)
*Good motor for a universal (induction preferred, but there are some
good entry saws with universal motors). I have ripped 8/4 hard
maple--to be fair this is really more a function of a good blade, but
the quality of universal motors varies widely, and as such the Ryobi is
OK.
*Accurate, capable of precision cuts
*Good blade out of the box (Freud)
*Serious belt drive that allows you to cut nearly 4" depth with 10"
blade. No other benchtop comes close to that as far as I know.
*Good sized arbor that handles a *full* dado set. Some contractor
saws don't do that.
*Router mount standard on right side of table
*Resale on these is very good, nearly retail. I know individuals who
part them out on ebay and make money in the process.

Virtue or vice, depending on your prejudices:

*It has a sliding table instead of a miter fence, something you
usually find only on high-end cabinet saws (OK, it is small, stop the
snickering...but it works well). If you want miter slots for jigs or
whatnot, it's an optional factory add-on, or if you can manage to cut a
dado in scrap then you can have one for free. Most BT3k owners prefer
the sliding table.
*Aluminum table and fences. Most everyone prefers cast iron for good
reasons: solid and less likely to slip out of alignment, useful for
other things (put a propane torch underneath and you can cook a fine
meal, for instance). But if it's for occasional use and you keep it in
a humid area, sacrificing the niceties of iron for the rust-free
practicality of aluminum is not unwise.

Vices:

*The motor, despite being nice, is nevertheless a universal motor and
as such is limited (what, 15A?) and it can bog down on some of the more
demanding tasks that a bigger saw can handle. A good blade helps--and
at least it comes with one--but you may *never* be satisfied on this
count without investing in a good cabinet saw (3hp plus--that's *real*
hp, BTW). If you're doing small amounts and don't push the feed rate,
it stands up well against 1-1/2 hp induction motors on the contractor
models.
*It's between benchtop and contractor in size, so handling large
boards and sheetgoods requires roller stands or tables. Note that this
problem is the same with most good quality contractor saws.
*It's an aluminum precision tool that's not intended for professional
use. I would not advise it for job-site use, nor for someone who is not
used to caring for his tools. You'd end up knocking it out of alignment
too often and being frustrated with the process of getting it back into
alignment. Tom Watson (one of the more eloquent long-time posters here)
wrote long ago about the humorous side of trying to use the Ryobi as a
job-site saw.

Its affectionados are bordering on the fanatic, and they have a great
site devoted to every aspect and then some to using that saw:
http://www.bt3central.com/
and the Ryobi site,
http://www.ryobitools.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=104&page=

[end of Ryobi plug]
----------
So...ask yourself what kind of use you'll get out of the machine. If
you're just a hobbyist occasional woodworker who can take care of a
tool, this may be ideal. If you want something better and can cough up
$500, go for the Bosch/Makita/Dewalt/Rigid. If you want that but don't
want to spend $500, then look for used ones (and they are plentiful).
If you suspect that you'll be upgrading soon, or if you have the
money/space, then cough it up for a really good contractor or cabinet
saw.

Good luck,
H

...who has upgraded to a Colovos 12" cabinet saw, but I still keep the
Ryobi around and use it a lot, fondly.

hylourgos wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > So from what I am reading it sounds like I can't get anything
> > worthwhile without spending around $500. Is that true? Can I get
> > anything decent for around $200 or $250?
> >
> > Space is at a premium for me - my shop (garage) is rather small, so
> > that is a factor in my decision.
>
> You've some great posts in response here on how to examine a TS before
> you buy it.
>
> To cut to the chase, I think the best advice is for you to shop for a
> good used contractor saw: you'll keep the cost down (plentiful at
> $100-$200) and get a decent saw you can use for years. You might even
> get lucky and find an inexpensive cabinet saw if you can go stationary.
> If at all possible take someone along who is experiences re/ TSs.
> Otherwise, read some books or magazine articles on TS virtues and vices
> to educate yourself.
>
> If you jump up to $500, there are several good saws: Rigid, Makita,
> Bosch, DeWalt, etc.
> -----------
>
> [caution: plug coming...]
>
> There is one inexpensive saw that fulfills most of the criteria tossed
> around, and with caveats noted you may find that you would be happy
> with it, or not: The Ryobi BT3k. At $300 it's a great saw for a certain
> kind of user.
>
> Its virtues:
>
> *Decent fence (at the time of its release, it was a great fence among
> benchtops. Now so-so)
> *Good motor for a universal (induction preferred, but there are some
> good entry saws with universal motors). I have ripped 8/4 hard
> maple--to be fair this is really more a function of a good blade, but
> the quality of universal motors varies widely, and as such the Ryobi is
> OK.
> *Accurate, capable of precision cuts
> *Good blade out of the box (Freud)
> *Serious belt drive that allows you to cut nearly 4" depth with 10"
> blade. No other benchtop comes close to that as far as I know.
> *Good sized arbor that handles a *full* dado set. Some contractor
> saws don't do that.
> *Router mount standard on right side of table
> *Resale on these is very good, nearly retail. I know individuals who
> part them out on ebay and make money in the process.
>
> Virtue or vice, depending on your prejudices:
>
> *It has a sliding table instead of a miter fence, something you
> usually find only on high-end cabinet saws (OK, it is small, stop the
> snickering...but it works well). If you want miter slots for jigs or
> whatnot, it's an optional factory add-on, or if you can manage to cut a
> dado in scrap then you can have one for free. Most BT3k owners prefer
> the sliding table.
> *Aluminum table and fences. Most everyone prefers cast iron for good
> reasons: solid and less likely to slip out of alignment, useful for
> other things (put a propane torch underneath and you can cook a fine
> meal, for instance). But if it's for occasional use and you keep it in
> a humid area, sacrificing the niceties of iron for the rust-free
> practicality of aluminum is not unwise.
>
> Vices:
>
> *The motor, despite being nice, is nevertheless a universal motor and
> as such is limited (what, 15A?) and it can bog down on some of the more
> demanding tasks that a bigger saw can handle. A good blade helps--and
> at least it comes with one--but you may *never* be satisfied on this
> count without investing in a good cabinet saw (3hp plus--that's *real*
> hp, BTW). If you're doing small amounts and don't push the feed rate,
> it stands up well against 1-1/2 hp induction motors on the contractor
> models.
> *It's between benchtop and contractor in size, so handling large
> boards and sheetgoods requires roller stands or tables. Note that this
> problem is the same with most good quality contractor saws.
> *It's an aluminum precision tool that's not intended for professional
> use. I would not advise it for job-site use, nor for someone who is not
> used to caring for his tools. You'd end up knocking it out of alignment
> too often and being frustrated with the process of getting it back into
> alignment. Tom Watson (one of the more eloquent long-time posters here)
> wrote long ago about the humorous side of trying to use the Ryobi as a
> job-site saw.
>
> Its affectionados are bordering on the fanatic, and they have a great
> site devoted to every aspect and then some to using that saw:
> http://www.bt3central.com/
> and the Ryobi site,
> http://www.ryobitools.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=104&page=
>
> [end of Ryobi plug]
> ----------
> So...ask yourself what kind of use you'll get out of the machine. If
> you're just a hobbyist occasional woodworker who can take care of a
> tool, this may be ideal. If you want something better and can cough up
> $500, go for the Bosch/Makita/Dewalt/Rigid. If you want that but don't
> want to spend $500, then look for used ones (and they are plentiful).
> If you suspect that you'll be upgrading soon, or if you have the
> money/space, then cough it up for a really good contractor or cabinet
> saw.
>
> Good luck,
> H
>
> ...who has upgraded to a Colovos 12" cabinet saw, but I still keep the
> Ryobi around and use it a lot, fondly.

OP here - I've gotten a lot of good stuff here and am staying far away
from the real entry level saws now.

I have looked at the BT3100 because there are lots of great reviews -
but have they stopped making it? It is not listed on Ryobi's site and
listed as "currently unavailable" at home depot...

[email protected] wrote:
> hylourgos wrote:
> > [email protected] wrote:
<snip>

> OP here - I've gotten a lot of good stuff here and am staying far away
> from the real entry level saws now.
>
> I have looked at the BT3100 because there are lots of great reviews -
> but have they stopped making it? It is not listed on Ryobi's site and
> listed as "currently unavailable" at home depot...

I hadn't heard that so looked into it as soon as I read your post.
Unfortunately, it is true, but the causes are as yet uncertain. Several
thread from the NGs I mentioned above go into some detail. Here is one
post:

"I don't know if there are plans to drop BT3100 from production and not
going to guess. What I do understand is that each product has it target
market. Contractor saw targets contractors. Cabinetmaker saw is being
sold to professional furniture makers. BT3100 is not robust for
contractor, can give you precision comparable to cabinetmaker saw at a
fraction of a cost but is not heavy duty. Its market are people who
aspire to make fine furniture but not for sale, so they are not
expecting revenue stream to justify high cost. This saw gives you set
of good features at rock bottom prices. That means it has very low
profit margin for Ryobi. It also means Ryobi must be very carefull not
to improve this saw in terms of its durability otherwise it will cut
into sales of Ridgid's brand contractor saws where profit is higher.
Remember that TTI needs to sell several BT3100 saws in order to make
same profit as one Ridgid TS. [Alex V]"

Another post w/ Ryobi/Rigid connections asserted that there would be a
new model out next year. Considering this was Ryobi's best seller it
would be surprising if they did not. The move from BT3000 to BT3100
caused similar angst among the faithful. The new model will probably be
improved, and will cost a little more (but that's just a guess).

It's still a great saw for a certain type of user. HD is marking them
down to about $240 right now and there are still some left. If you're a
hobbyist user who wants an inexpensive precision saw, then your
opportunity has never been better than right now.

Otherwise, you're better off saving up and getting a sturdier, higher
quality, and much more expensive saw. And that's pretty much the same
advice you'll get about every single tool acquisition you make in
woodworking now! Don't say you weren't forewarned, this is an expensive
hobby.

Best,
H

Rob Mills wrote:
> "hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >>> What if the OP wants it for occasional use only and stores it in a very
> humid enviroment?<<<
>
> Really not a problem for me. I use only on occasion, live in N.E Okla.which
> is not like the coast... <snip>

Yeah, there's really no comparison. In most of the South we have to wax
once a month at least. Thank god for T-9, but still it's a hassle and
aluminum is nice down here.

H

Andrew Barss wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> : I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
> : I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
> : too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
> : it considering how much use I think it will get.
>
>
> Although I agree with the othr posts in this thread (a good used big
> saw would be dandy), one other option to consider is the Ryobi BT3000
> or BT3100. They have a very substantial and loyal following, and
> there are user groups on the web that can give you more information.
>
> -- Andy Barss

I'll toss in a second on this recommendation. I wound up going with
the BT3100 after much research (this board is extremely helpful) and
consideration of space and budget constraints, and so far have been
very pleased. Makes clean accurate cuts, fence is reliable, and
sliding miter table is very handy. Caveat - the 3100 is essentially
discontinued, purportedly to be replaced by a new model later this year
(more info on www.bt3central.com), but you can still find a few at some
borgs on clearance.

In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:

> What more would I get with the more expensive models?

Power to cut something thicker than 1/2" plywood without burning the
wood and the blade, the ability to add a dado blade, a fence that
actually locks where you want it, the ability to use a tenoning jig,
MUCH quieter operation, less vibration, lower frustration level, glue
ready cuts (no sanding necessary)...

I bought a saw like that. I regret it and will replace it with a decent
contractor or cabinet saw as soon as I have the available cash.

On 22 Aug 2006 13:35:01 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>So from what I am reading it sounds like I can't get anything
>worthwhile without spending around $500. Is that true? Can I get
>anything decent for around $200 or $250?
>
>Space is at a premium for me - my shop (garage) is rather small, so
>that is a factor in my decision.


I am very happy with my Bosh portable that I bought as a factory
rebuild

[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some
> recommendations.
> I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
> too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
> it considering how much use I think it will get.
>
> One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:
>
> http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=009
> 21805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>

*snip*

If you can take a look at it in the stores, take a look at the way the
splitter aligns behind the blade. Pay attention to the distance from the
mounting point to the blade. That level craftsman saw mounts the blade
guard/splitter assembly off the table, giving the potential for lots of
flex and binding in an essential safety tool.

Next, take a look at the blade head on. Does the splitter line up
exactly with the blade or off to the side? That level Craftsman saw had
(and probably still has) a problem where the splitter does not line up
with the blade and pinches the board making the cut. When you start
pinching, you risk kickback which, as stories here will attest, you don't
want.

I have the low level Craftsman saw, and have resorted to using it without
blade guard assembly to allow me to make cuts without as much concern
over binding.

If you get a good saw, you'll probably be more likely to use it. If you
get a bad one, you'll probably be less likely to use it, wasting the
money you spent.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

[email protected] wrote:
> I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some
> recommendations. I am using it for various household woodworking
> projects, but nothing too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it
> to spend a whole lot on it considering how much use I think it will
> get.
>
> One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:
>
>
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=00921805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>
> Seems like it is a step above the very entry models because it
> includes the collapsible stand, extensions, 15 amps, and dust
> collector. Don't have any experience with the Craftsman brand, but
> the price seems good.
>
> What more would I get with the more expensive models?

Form follows function. You first have to determine what you are going to do
with the saw. Cut Balsa wood or Lignum Vitae? What size? one by sixes or
planks? Sheet goods? Will arbor take dado blades?
If you're going to do small craft projects, then the saw will work, if you
are going to do furniture, then this tool is marginal.
--
Frank Howell


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"Rob" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

*snip*

>
>>From this experience, may I suggest either one of the mid-range Delta
> or Hitachi models. One feature that you will NEED to look for is/are
> the miter gauge channels. AVOID the saws with am inverted T shaped
> channel. This limits your future capabilities. By the time you're
> confident enough to make jigs for the T channels, you'll realize how
> horrid they are...
>

One of these days the dremel is coming out and the T channels are going
away. Luckily they're only in a few places and not run the whole length.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

*snip*

> You would be better off getting a quality circular saw for the same
> money.
>

*trim*

You know... I believe my grandpa's table saw was a circular saw turned
upside down. Sure you'll have to use a 2x4 for a fence (better plane and
joint that one) but I don't trust my TS's fence to be straight the first
time anyway. You won't have the same capacity, but it'll still be enough
for cutting most things.

One thing to note if you're thinking of doing this: On a table saw the
blade rotates so the cutting action pushes the board against you and down
onto the table. (So if you're standing to the left of the saw, the blade
moves clockwise.)

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"Mike O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


>>>> Keep your eyes open for a used Contractor's style saw. You should be
able to find one in that price range. You should also be able to tell
pretty easily if it's been used, abused and or taken care of.<<<

Best advice in the bunch. Also get one with a good fence, belt drive and put
a "good" blade on it. RM~

"hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>>> What if the OP wants it for occasional use only and stores it in a very
humid enviroment?<<<

Really not a problem for me. I use only on occasion, live in N.E Okla.which
is not like the coast but still pretty humid. I use paste wax on cast iron
work surfaces (probably once a year) and WD40 on non work surfaces such
as drill press column and etc.. RM~

PS, I use an automotive buffer/grinder to buff out the wax.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So from what I am reading it sounds like I can't get anything
> worthwhile without spending around $500. Is that true?

Yes

Can I get
> anything decent for around $200 or $250?

No, unless it is used.
>
> Space is at a premium for me - my shop (garage) is rather small, so
> that is a factor in my decision.

Wheels

"Stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> <SNIP>
>>
>> What more would I get with the more expensive models?
>
> I own a very inexpensive ($400) table saw (Delta contractor) and I have
> gotten a lot of mileage out of it (see my web page projects section).
> Do I wish I had a $2,000 saw with one of them fancy boy Biesemeyer
> fences? Sure I do. Do I "NEED" one, probably not, but don't tell
> SWMBO. :)
>

You need one, you just don't know it.

"Stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in news:c2MGg.4526$n%[email protected]:

>> You need one, you just don't know it.
>
> Really? What have you made with yours? Lets see some pics.
>
>
>

No pics, sorry.

My comment was not some sort of back handed jab at you. Once you get a
really nice TS, you will sit back after the first project and say "I should
have bought it long long ago".

> You need one, you just don't know it.

Really? What have you made with yours? Lets see some pics.

Construction crew leader posted several years ago his 3 crews insist
on the BT3000 and he buys replacement sets several times per year.

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:29:23 -0500, "Rob Mills" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Andrew Barss" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eckv96 one
>other option to consider is
>
>>>the Ryobi BT3000 or BT3100. They have a very substantial and loyal
>following, <<
>
>The contractor who did some remodeling on my house several years ago swore
>by them, said he beats them to death then tosses them and buys a new one.
>RM~
>
>
>

[email protected] wrote:
: I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
: I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
: too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
: it considering how much use I think it will get.


Although I agree with the othr posts in this thread (a good used big
saw would be dandy), one other option to consider is the Ryobi BT3000
or BT3100. They have a very substantial and loyal following, and
there are user groups on the web that can give you more information.

-- Andy Barss

[email protected] wrote:
> I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some
> recommendations. I am using it for various household woodworking
> projects, but nothing too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it
> to spend a whole lot on it considering how much use I think it will
> get.


About three years ago, I sold my Unisaw -- along with a number of other
stationary power gear -- 'cause I just didn't have the time to spend doing
the woodworking that I had been doing. Recently, after much evaluation, I
picked up the Rigid TS2400. I am happy I did.

While no portable bench style saw can come close to my old Unisaw, the Rigid
sure does a fine job. Out of the box, it needed very little tuning (I am a
stickler for a well tuned table saw). I did have to do a bit of of an
adjustment to the fence, which was no big deal. But the blade alignment to
the table was dead on, as well as the blade to the miter slots. I recently
dadoed some pressured treated 4x4s for a pergola I built, and the motor
handled the task without any hint of power reduction.

The Rigid also comes with an easy to set-up/take-down wheeled cart for
mounting the saw on. The cart is wonderful.

Here's one review:
http://www.asktooltalk.com/home/reviews/stationary/ridgid-table-saw.htm

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On 21 Aug 2006 18:46:11 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
> I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
>too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
>it considering how much use I think it will get.
>
>One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:
>
>http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=00921805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>
>Seems like it is a step above the very entry models because it includes
>the collapsible stand, extensions, 15 amps, and dust collector. Don't
>have any experience with the Craftsman brand, but the price seems good.

Run, don't walk, away from that. My dad came home with a similar saw
a couple years back. I can actually grab the blade and wiggle the
arbor side to side by a visible amount. Generally speaking one would
like for the blade to stay in one spot. The fence also doesn't lock
securely enough without putting a C clamp on the back end.

With a contractor size saw you get a much larger table. This makes a
world of difference. Especially since the lesser equipped your shop
is the more likely you are to ask the table saw to do all sorts of
things you didn't really intend at the outset.

It's more than double the cost of what you're looking at, but take a
serious look at the Ridgid TS3650 at HD.


-Leuf

On 21 Aug 2006 18:46:11 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
> I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
>too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
>it considering how much use I think it will get.
>
>One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:
>
>http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=00921805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>
>Seems like it is a step above the very entry models because it includes
>the collapsible stand, extensions, 15 amps, and dust collector. Don't
>have any experience with the Craftsman brand, but the price seems good.
>
>What more would I get with the more expensive models?


You would be better off getting a quality circular saw for the same
money.

A quality cabinet table saw will have a precision fence, good dust
collection, cast iron large flat table, smooth controls, low
vibration, quality blade, and probably run on 220v.

<SNIP>
>
> What more would I get with the more expensive models?

I own a very inexpensive ($400) table saw (Delta contractor) and I have
gotten a lot of mileage out of it (see my web page projects section). Do I
wish I had a $2,000 saw with one of them fancy boy Biesemeyer fences? Sure
I do. Do I "NEED" one, probably not, but don't tell SWMBO. :)

If I could make one coment about buying a table saw it would be get one with
a CAST IRON TOP. The one you have selected is aluminum.

My advice, shop around some more.

Good luck.
--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com

[email protected] wrote:
> I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
> I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
> too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
> it considering how much use I think it will get.
>
> One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:

A few things to consider:

IF you buy a DECENT table saw with a GOOD fence, you will be able to
make accurate as well as repetitive cuts.

IF you buy a DECENT table saw with a GOOD fence, you will be able to
sell it when you are finished with it.

IF you buy the Craftsman or something similar, you won't be able to do
either of the above, especially make accurate cuts.

I'd save my money and get a decent contractor's saw complete with a
Unifence, if it were me.

Lew

On 22 Aug 2006 13:35:01 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>So from what I am reading it sounds like I can't get anything
>worthwhile without spending around $500. Is that true? Can I get
>anything decent for around $200 or $250?
>
>Space is at a premium for me - my shop (garage) is rather small, so
>that is a factor in my decision.



I have a Delta Contractors saw in great shape that I am looking to get
rid of since I moved up to a Unisaw.

Where do you live?

Gary

"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 21 Aug 2006 18:46:11 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
>> I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
>>too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
>>it considering how much use I think it will get.
>>
>>One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:
>>
>>http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=00921805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>>
>>Seems like it is a step above the very entry models because it includes
>>the collapsible stand, extensions, 15 amps, and dust collector. Don't
>>have any experience with the Craftsman brand, but the price seems good.
>>
>>What more would I get with the more expensive models?
>
>
> You would be better off getting a quality circular saw for the same
> money.
>
> A quality cabinet table saw will have a precision fence, good dust
> collection, cast iron large flat table, smooth controls, low
> vibration, quality blade, and probably run on 220v.
>

6 months ago I was looking for the same thing. I wanted a saw for small
projects around the house. I didn't want to spend more than 2-300.00 given
the amount of use I thought it would get. As read and looked at saws it
became clear I would regret buying a saw in that price range.

Don't underestimate the value of tools that are safer, save you time, and
allow for future needs you may not anticipate. If you think in those terms,
a sub 300.00 saw is a poor value.

For less than 1000.00, there are basically 3 categories of table saws:

1) Benchtop saws (100.00! - 600.00)

-These have a motor beneath the table and are designed to be light and
portable. Contractors use these because they can toss them in their truck.
For home use they are generally not a good choice because they use only a
little less floor space than other types and their light weight features are
a liability. If you plan to store it on a shelf or under a bench it would
be the saw to get, but very few shops are so small that you would prefer
packing the saw up to keeping it on wheels and rolling it in a corner.

-The motors are weaker which can make some cuts more of a struggle and
therefore less safe. Not to mention they usually fail sooner.

-The top is small and usually lightweight aluminum or stamped steel. That
makes for a more difficulty achieving accurate cuts. It will prevent you
from making cuts beyond it's rated width. Also, the combination of light
weight (less stable), a small top (less support), more effort (small motor),
and larger pieces or stock make for more danger and less accuracy.

-The fence and controls on these saws are almost universally difficult to
control precisely. Have a look at any saw in the 2-300.00 range. Tip the
fence to the left then lock it down. Tip the fence to the right and lock it
down. In both cases the fence will lock in an obviously non-square
position. Many will also flex significantly when locked unless you add a
rear clamp. Do you really want to subject yourself to flimsy crap like
that? A misaligned fence is also a kickback waiting to happen. One
kickback accident and you could easily erase any money you saved buying a
cheap saw after fixing the damage to your house or to you.

-If you must have one of these, you will need to spend 4-600.00 to get a
passable one. The Bosch 4000 is a good example.

2) Contractor saws (300.00 - 900.00)

-These semi-portable saws are heavier saws with the motor hanging out the
back. They have decent weight and stability, the fences are nicer, and the
tops are larger and usually cast iron. They can also be had with reasonable
power for occasional home use. Most of them have the ability to take nice
upgrades like a really good fence or a router table extension.

-Unfortunately, it is difficult to control dust with these, mainly because
of the motor hanging out the back. Also, the motor adds to floor space and
pretty much eliminates the fold - down outfeed table option.

3) Hybrid tablesaws (450.00 - 1000.00+)

-These are stationary saws that have the motor back underneath in a cabinet.
Otherwise they are built much like the contractor's saw. Most of them come
with pretty nice fences, decent power, cast iron tops, and good dust
collection. Once on a mobile base, they can be tucked out of the way, even
if you add a folding outfeed table. Or they can be the heart of a nice big
open station with ample outfeed support. They can be run on 220v if you
want and take most of the add-ons that the true cabinet saws will take.

Normally buying the least expensive model of a tool category would be a poor
choice, but the entry level hybrid saws are generally pretty good - much
better than the best benchtop saws. I ended up getting the Delta 715 which
can be had for less than 600.00 if you watch the prices at Amazon. The
Craftsman entry hybrid (Sears item #00922104000 Mfr. model #OR35506) is
going for about 450.00 on their website and it appears to be a very good saw
for the money.

After putting the saw together, aligning the fence, and putting on a good
blade, the smoothness and accuracy of these things are amazing. 3/4 plywood
just glides through the blade leaving cuts that are spot on and cannot be
improved with sanding. The saw is heavy enough to feel very stable with no
significant vibration during use. It is also very quiet.

I was uneasy with spending twice my original budget at first. Now I feel
the advantages of safety, dust collection, ease of use, upgradeability,
power, and durability are well worth the cost. This is especially true if
you consider the life of the saw. The quality of the cuts will also open up
more project possibilities. Simple pieces of furniture I would never have
considered taking on before are looking realistic and fun.

If you can't swing that much money, I agree with Phisherman. Look into a
nice circular saw and guide. Or, if you are working with mostly smaller
stuff, you might also consider a small band saw. Band saws also suffer in
quality in that price range, but it would probably be safer and more
versatile than a cheap tablesaw.

-Steve

On 22 Aug 2006 13:35:01 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>So from what I am reading it sounds like I can't get anything
>worthwhile without spending around $500. Is that true? Can I get
>anything decent for around $200 or $250?

Keep your eyes open for a used Contractor's style saw. You should be
able to find one in that price range. You should also be able to tell
pretty easily if it's been used, abused and or taken care of.

Mike O.

> Seems like it is a step above the very entry models because it includes
> the collapsible stand, extensions, 15 amps, and dust collector. Don't
> have any experience with the Craftsman brand, but the price seems good.
>
> What more would I get with the more expensive models?

Sorry, but that saw is a very entry level saw. You might have noticed by
now that most of the woodworkers here don't think much of it.

I have been manufacturing sawdust for about 30+ years and started with one
of the old Craftsman 1hp, cast-iron table, sheet metal wings saws with the
motor hanging out the back. Then I put up with it for about 25 years. If
you want to cut anything that rates above a craft project (plywood, small
stock, etc) you need to raise you sights a bit.

Take time to look at contractors saws that retail new in the $400 to $600
range. These might include:

- Delta
- Rigid (I'm not a big fan but many here have had good luck)
- Grizzly (I am a fan)
- Jet

Many will tell you that the heart of a shop is the table saw and the heart
of a table saw is the fence. All of these will provide a decent fence or
the ability to move up to an aftermarket fence later. A 2hp or larger motor
is good too.

Also look for these brand names as used equipment. I see Jet and Delta
table saws in the local classified pretty often. Even better, look for
estate sales, for a good discount from retail. The neat thing about estate
sales is they often sell the whole kaschmeer for one price. My cousin
picked up a Radial arm saw with a half dozen blades, dado cutter, shaper
attachment and assorted do-dads for $150 - like new.

Notice that beyond the second paragraph I didn't use the word Craftsman.

RonB

"Andrew Barss" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eckv96 one
other option to consider is

>>the Ryobi BT3000 or BT3100. They have a very substantial and loyal
following, <<

The contractor who did some remodeling on my house several years ago swore
by them, said he beats them to death then tosses them and buys a new one.
RM~

On 21 Aug 2006 18:46:11 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>I am going to buy a table saw and was looking for some recommendations.
> I am using it for various household woodworking projects, but nothing
>too fancy - I don't think it would be worth it to spend a whole lot on
>it considering how much use I think it will get.
>
>One I have my eye on at the moment is this Craftsman one:
>
>http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=00921805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>
>Seems like it is a step above the very entry models because it includes
>the collapsible stand, extensions, 15 amps, and dust collector. Don't
>have any experience with the Craftsman brand, but the price seems good.
>
>What more would I get with the more expensive models?


I have a Delta Contractors saw in great shape that I am looking to get
rid of since I moved up to a Unisaw.

Where do you live?

Gary