HF Multifunction tool

evodawg wrote:
>>
>> You can even save electricity by bypassing the switch and just
>> wiggling the tool.
>>
>> If you think of the tool as a miniature reciprocating saw, new uses
>> come to mind, such as trimming bushes, carving turkeys, and the like.
>
> Few questions, Does the Dremel hold the cutting tool. I tried one at
> a show and the blade kept falling off the teeth/dowels that holds it
> in place. It seemed the washer wasn't getting tight enough to hold it
> against the blade. Does the HF Tool have teeth to hold the tool, I
> see the blades have 4 holes in them so I'd expect the tool has 4
> teeth or dowels???? I need one of these tools to trim baseboard to
> accommodate wider door casings.
>
> Thanks for any review you can provide.
> Rich

Well, you've got to snug the blade down pretty hard. I mean REALLY tighten
the allen-bolt. Spot welding helps. You learn.

As to whether the machine will cut human tissue, no it won't.

In fact, my tool went missing. I found it on the nightstand next to the bed
and my current squeeze claimed complete ignorance...

On May 15, 7:27=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > I've been thinking about the Bosch cordless version.
>
> >http://www.cpotools.com/other_tools_and_equipment/multi-x/ps50-2b.html
>
> > I'd like to (IOW it's on the honeydew list) put a hearth in front of
> > our (gas) fireplace but haven't figured out how to cut the bamboo
> > flooring so I can inlay tile, of some sort. =A0It looks dumb without a
> > hearth and with one I could even burn wood. =A0Why the builder didn't
> > put one in I'll never know. Would this sort of tool do the job? =A0The
> > issue, of course, is cutting up to the wall, fireplace.
>
> While cordless would be a nice feature, consider that this type tool sort=
a
> falls into the specialty tool category. =A0Unless you know that you would
> actually use it as often as say a cordless drill you may want to get a
> corded model. =A0I have the Fein corded and have used it often and it is =
great
> for handling those problem situations I run into but I probably only use =
it
> 10-12 times a year. =A0It and the Bosch should last a life time, the batt=
eries
> will not. =A0I suspect that the batteries will die of old age and have to=
be
> replaced time and again rather than being worn out. =A0Just something to =
think
> about.

Yes, certainly something to think about and I've replaced drills
because they were the same price as replacement batteries. That said,
I already a couple of the Bosch LithIon tools and would consider $80
of the purchase price to be additional batteries for the never-to-be-
without-again "Impactor". ;-)

--
Keith

In article <[email protected]>, HeyBub
<[email protected]> wrote:

> In fact, my tool went missing. I found it on the nightstand next to the bed
> and my current squeeze claimed complete ignorance...

You owe me a keyboard.

In article <[email protected]>, evodawg
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Maybe you should get her a dildo to practice on....

Maybe, if we take up a collection, you could buy a sense of humour?

In article <[email protected]>, evodawg
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm wanting one of these tools. I asked for an honest review not if it cut
> meat or fingers or someones dick. Sure take up the collection and buy me
> the Fein Multimaster, cause I know that one works. I'll give you my address
> when you've collected enough, OK!

<YogiBear>Yow-owowouch! What a grow-owowouch!</YogiBear>

On May 15, 8:19=A0am, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
> krw wrote:
> > I'd like to (IOW it's on the honeydew list) put a hearth in front of
> > our (gas) fireplace but haven't figured out how to cut the bamboo
> > flooring so I can inlay tile, of some sort. =A0It looks dumb without a
> > hearth and with one I could even burn wood. =A0Why the builder didn't
> > put one in I'll never know.
> > Would this sort of tool do the job? =A0The
> > issue, of course, is cutting up to the wall, fireplace.
>
> Yep. No problemo.
>
> You might consider making the long cuts with a circular saw set to the
> correct depth and use the MF tool to sneak up to the intersections and th=
e
> wall.

Thanks! It looks like that job just moved up the list. Justification
for new toy, and all. ;-)

--
Keith

-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>"monopolies are encouraged" is an interesting way to look at protection
>of intellectual property. :-)

That is exactly the deal with a patent or copyright. The inventor (or author)
gets a monopoly for a limited period of time in return for putting the work in
the public domain at the end of that time. Copyright times have gotten way too
long in my opinion, but that is a side detail.

If an inventor wants to protect something indefinitely, they can keep it as a
trade secret (like the formula for Coca-Cola). But that doesn't protect them
from independent invention.

-- Doug

-MIKE- wrote:
>>
> Worked for me, got mine this afternoon.
> I'll check it out and report back.

Don't leave it on the nightstand.

On 5/8/2009 9:14 AM J. Clarke spake thus:

> Pat Barber wrote:
>
>> I have seen many copies of tools over the years
>> but this one appears to be a "carbon copy" right
>> down to the attachments.
>>
>> TD Driver wrote:
>>> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.
>
> The real question is what attachments are available and for how much. IIRC
> HF only has a few blades. Adding a full set of Fein accessories to it is
> going to run that 40 bucks up right quick. Whether it's going to run it up
> to more than the "Top" kit from Fein I don't know offhand.

But what about the Dremel stuff? Remember that there are now lots of
players in this game. HeyBub tells us that the HD tool takes at least
some of the Dremel bits and cutters.


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

On 5/8/2009 11:45 AM HeyBub spake thus:

> Interestingly, neither "blade" has a kerf.

You mean they don't leave a kerf in the material you cut? Why, next
you'll be trying to sell us perpetual motion machines!

(I know this isn't what you meant--just giving you a hard time.)


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

On 5/8/2009 2:13 PM HeyBub spake thus:

> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> On 5/8/2009 11:45 AM HeyBub spake thus:
>>
>>> Interestingly, neither "blade" has a kerf.
>>
>> You mean they don't leave a kerf in the material you cut? Why, next
>> you'll be trying to sell us perpetual motion machines!
>>
>> (I know this isn't what you meant--just giving you a hard time.)
>
> Oops! Yeah, I meant the "set" of the teeth. That is, they are not offset
> from the blade's stock.
>
> You can even save electricity by bypassing the switch and just wiggling the
> tool.
>
> If you think of the tool as a miniature reciprocating saw, new uses come to
> mind, such as trimming bushes, carving turkeys, and the like.

So since you actually own one of these tools, perhaps you can answer a
question: the MultiMaster infomercial shows, among other wondrous
things, a user of the tool pressing the vibrating edge of a tool against
his hand with no damage or injury. Is this something you've been able to
demonstrate to yourself? (Not asking you to potentially slice open your
fingers, just curious.)


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

On 5/10/2009 2:37 PM HeyBub spake thus:

> -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> Right. Fein's patent on the original tool expired - which generates
>>> a ton of competition - so they make some needed improvements and get
>>> another seventeen years of exclusivity with a new patent.
>>>
>>> For those who decry monopolies, remember monopolies are encouraged
>>> by the Constitution (Article I, Section 8). "The Congress shall have
>>> the Power To....securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors
>>> the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
>>
>> "monopolies are encouraged" is an interesting way to look at
>> protection of intellectual property. :-)
>
> Well, that's the way it was put to us in ConLaw class. Don't forget,
> monopolies are, in the main, good.

Totally disagree with that (about monopolies being good); more on this
below.

But regarding that law class, it reminds me of my days in business
school. One of the best classes I ever took was business law. Now, you
know my political beliefs: well to the left of center. The class was
taught by an older conservative Mormon rancher type. Yet it turned out
to be one of the best classes I took the entire time I was in school
there (NAU in Flagstaff). The guy was very fair-minded, and covered all
the basics (contract law, basic legal concepts, etc.) very clearly.

> And about the only monopolies that are bad for the consumer are those that
> are government-controlled or owned (i.e., utilities, postal service, etc.).
>
> Even the arch-demon of monopolies, Standard Oil, managed to lower the price
> of Kerosene from $3.00/gallon to 5¢/gallon ! And they did it in three years.
> Of course the suppliers of whale oil were put out of business - and
> complained lustily - but Standard Oil pushed back the night.

This, of course, elides many cases of malicious malfeasance attributable
to the likes of Standard Oil and other monopolies. In general,
monopolies are things to be avoided wherever possible; only a few cases,
among them ones you listed above, are good candidates for manageable
monopolies.


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

On 5/10/2009 4:19 PM evodawg spake thus:

> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> This, of course, elides many cases of malicious malfeasance
>> attributable to the likes of Standard Oil and other monopolies. In
>> general, monopolies are things to be avoided wherever possible;
>> only a few cases, among them ones you listed above, are good
>> candidates for manageable monopolies.
>
> Would you consider the US Government a monopoly? I also love the fact
> the US Government taxes the Oil Companies to the extreme of making
> more off a gallon of gas then the outfit that produces it, just for
> the opportunity to do business in this country. Does anyone know what
> the US averages in dollars collected per year in TAXES? Just
> curious.

The U.S. government a monopoly? No, it's a government.

You are aware, aren't you, that gas taxes are much higher in Yurp?


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

On 5/10/2009 7:29 PM Larry Blanchard spake thus:

> On Sun, 10 May 2009 16:37:52 -0500, HeyBub wrote:
>
>> And about the only monopolies that are bad for the consumer are those
>> that are government-controlled or owned (i.e., utilities, postal
>> service, etc.).
>
> I'll have to disagree in part with that blanket statement. For about the
> 1st 30 years of my life, I lived where electricity was a municipal
> utility. Worked fine. I now live where Avista, formerly Washington
> Water and Power, has a monopoly. Every year or two they go before the
> PUC and claim they have to raise rates. Shortly after they get their
> way, they issue a stockholder report proclaiming record profits.
>
> I'll take the government owned electric company every time.

Amen. Public power means at least *some* public control of utility rates
and policies. (As opposed to *none* over private utilities--except very
indirectly, through a PUC or whatever.)


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

[email protected] wrote:
> On May 8, 1:46 pm, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I know for certain that the Fein MultiMaster can use the Dremel saw
>>blades as I bought one of the Dremel blades for use about two weeks ago.
>>$11.00 for the Dremel blade at Home Depot verses $26.00 for the Fein at
>>Woodcraft.
>
>
> So Jack, I guess the question that has to be asked, are the Dremel
> blades as good or at comparible in quality to the Fein in practical
> use?
>
> Also, I am remembering some discussion on another group of the
> problems with blades loosening up on the Dremels when being used. A
> call to Dremel ( IF I am remembering correctly) got the individual
> some kind of star washer or other arrangment to help remedy that
> problem.
>
> Anyway, have you had a chance to use the Dremel blades, and more
> importantly, do you like them? I wouldn't expect Fein quality at half
> the price, but wonder if the blades are just more Chinese crap.
>
> Robert

So far I've only used it to under cut four door jambs while installing a
laminate floor. As far as I can tell the blade works as well as the
Fein. I did not have a problem with the Dremel blade loosening on the
Fein any more than a Fein blade. You do have to tighten the set screw
securely on both blades. I did like not having to completely remove the
screw to install or remove the blade. It's only a minor convenience but
one that was noted.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 5/8/2009 11:45 AM HeyBub spake thus:
>
>> Interestingly, neither "blade" has a kerf.
>
> You mean they don't leave a kerf in the material you cut? Why, next
> you'll be trying to sell us perpetual motion machines!
>
> (I know this isn't what you meant--just giving you a hard time.)

Oops! Yeah, I meant the "set" of the teeth. That is, they are not offset
from the blade's stock.

You can even save electricity by bypassing the switch and just wiggling the
tool.

If you think of the tool as a miniature reciprocating saw, new uses come to
mind, such as trimming bushes, carving turkeys, and the like.

On Thu, 14 May 2009 09:42:35 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Phisherman wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 May 2009 20:22:26 -0500, TD Driver
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.
>>> Here's the link:
>>> http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=65700
>>>
>>> Every once in a while I wish I had something like this for trimming
>>> some molding or whatever. Anybody own this puppy? Dremel has one,
>>> too, for about $100. Are either of them worth the $$$?
>>
>>
>> I have a Dremmel. I used it yesterday with a (router-like base)
>> attachment that made it easy to cut mortises in a door edge and jamb.
>> After drawing tracing the plates, I freehand the cutter close to the
>> pencil line, then cleaned it up with a sharp chisel. Really nice
>> tool, but I have not tried other brands.
>
>The Dremel under discussion is
>http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Tools/Pages/ToolDetail.aspx?pid=Multi-Max.
>
>Different tool.

I've been thinking about the Bosch cordless version.

http://www.cpotools.com/other_tools_and_equipment/multi-x/ps50-2b.html

I'd like to (IOW it's on the honeydew list) put a hearth in front of
our (gas) fireplace but haven't figured out how to cut the bamboo
flooring so I can inlay tile, of some sort. It looks dumb without a
hearth and with one I could even burn wood. Why the builder didn't
put one in I'll never know. Would this sort of tool do the job? The
issue, of course, is cutting up to the wall, fireplace.

On May 8, 1:46=A0pm, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:

> I know for certain that the Fein MultiMaster can use the Dremel saw
> blades as I bought one of the Dremel blades for use about two weeks ago.
> $11.00 for the Dremel blade at Home Depot verses $26.00 for the Fein at
> Woodcraft.

So Jack, I guess the question that has to be asked, are the Dremel
blades as good or at comparible in quality to the Fein in practical
use?

Also, I am remembering some discussion on another group of the
problems with blades loosening up on the Dremels when being used. A
call to Dremel ( IF I am remembering correctly) got the individual
some kind of star washer or other arrangment to help remedy that
problem.

Anyway, have you had a chance to use the Dremel blades, and more
importantly, do you like them? I wouldn't expect Fein quality at half
the price, but wonder if the blades are just more Chinese crap.

Robert

On May 15, 11:56=A0am, "charlie" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 14 May 2009 09:42:35 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>Phisherman wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 07 May 2009 20:22:26 -0500, TD Driver
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>>> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.
> >>>> Here's the link:
> >>>>http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=
...
>
> >>>> Every once in a while I wish I had something like this for trimming
> >>>> some molding or whatever. =A0Anybody own this puppy? =A0Dremel has o=
ne,
> >>>> too, for about $100. =A0Are either of them worth the $$$?
>
> >>> I have a Dremmel. =A0I used it yesterday with a (router-like base)
> >>> attachment that made it easy to cut mortises in a door edge and jamb.
> >>> After drawing tracing the plates, I freehand the cutter close to the
> >>> pencil line, then cleaned it up with a sharp chisel. =A0 =A0Really ni=
ce
> >>> tool, but I have not tried other brands.
>
> >>The Dremel under discussion is
> >>http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Tools/Pages/ToolDetail.aspx?pid=3DMulti-Max=
.
>
> >>Different tool.
>
> > I've been thinking about the Bosch cordless version.
>
> >http://www.cpotools.com/other_tools_and_equipment/multi-x/ps50-2b.html
>
> > I'd like to (IOW it's on the honeydew list) put a hearth in front of
> > our (gas) fireplace but haven't figured out how to cut the bamboo
> > flooring so I can inlay tile, of some sort. =A0It looks dumb without a
> > hearth and with one I could even burn wood. =A0Why the builder didn't
> > put one in I'll never know. Would this sort of tool do the job? =A0The
> > issue, of course, is cutting up to the wall, fireplace.
>
> it's code to have a non-burnable hearth before a wood burning fireplace; =
it
> is not required to have one in front of a gas fireplace. guess which is
> cheaper?

Understood. If the builder wanted to cheap out he wouldn't have
bothered with a real chimney either. I'll probably stick with gas
(propane) but I have to buy the logs too (not cheap). It still looks
dumb without the hearth.

--
Keith

krw wrote:
> I'd like to (IOW it's on the honeydew list) put a hearth in front of
> our (gas) fireplace but haven't figured out how to cut the bamboo
> flooring so I can inlay tile, of some sort. It looks dumb without a
> hearth and with one I could even burn wood. Why the builder didn't
> put one in I'll never know.

> Would this sort of tool do the job? The
> issue, of course, is cutting up to the wall, fireplace.

Yep. No problemo.

You might consider making the long cuts with a circular saw set to the
correct depth and use the MF tool to sneak up to the intersections and the
wall.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>> The real question is what attachments are available and for how
>> much. IIRC HF only has a few blades. Adding a full set of Fein
>> accessories to it is going to run that 40 bucks up right quick. Whether
>> it's going to run it up to more than the "Top" kit from Fein
>> I don't know offhand.
>
> But what about the Dremel stuff? Remember that there are now lots of
> players in this game. HeyBub tells us that the HD tool takes at least
> some of the Dremel bits and cutters.

Yep. I've bought the Dremel flat saw blade and the 270° blade. Both fit the
HF.

Interestingly, neither "blade" has a kerf. Nor do they have sharpened faces.
The business end of each blade is merely a flat piece of metal that looks as
if it was cut with the equivalent of pinking shears!

Shucks, you could make your own with a (classic) dremel, or refurbish one
that was worn out. I'm gonna try that on the next blade that wears down.

J. Clarke wrote:
>
> Note that the current Fein models address both of these issues--there
> is now a star shaped arbor that prevents the blade from shifting and
> there is now a quick release instead of a set screw. There is an
> adapter that adds the new arbor to the older models--it has carbide
> teeth on the back that cut into the flat arbor to ensure that it
> stays put, or if you want to be really sure it can be spot welded.

Right. Fein's patent on the original tool expired - which generates a ton of
competition - so they make some needed improvements and get another
seventeen years of exclusivity with a new patent.

For those who decry monopolies, remember monopolies are encouraged by the
Constitution (Article I, Section 8). "The Congress shall have the Power
To....securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive
Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

evodawg wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
>
>> evodawg wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You can even save electricity by bypassing the switch and just
>>>> wiggling the tool.
>>>>
>>>> If you think of the tool as a miniature reciprocating saw, new uses
>>>> come to mind, such as trimming bushes, carving turkeys, and the
>>>> like.
>>>
>>> Few questions, Does the Dremel hold the cutting tool. I tried one at
>>> a show and the blade kept falling off the teeth/dowels that holds it
>>> in place. It seemed the washer wasn't getting tight enough to hold
>>> it against the blade. Does the HF Tool have teeth to hold the tool,
>>> I see the blades have 4 holes in them so I'd expect the tool has 4
>>> teeth or dowels???? I need one of these tools to trim baseboard to
>>> accommodate wider door casings.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any review you can provide.
>>> Rich
>>
>> Well, you've got to snug the blade down pretty hard. I mean REALLY
>> tighten the allen-bolt. Spot welding helps. You learn.
>>
>> As to whether the machine will cut human tissue, no it won't.
>>
>> In fact, my tool went missing. I found it on the nightstand next to
>> the bed and my current squeeze claimed complete ignorance...
>
> I could careless if it cuts human tissue. If your stupid enough to
> let it cut you then you deserve it. I just want to know if it works
> and the blade stays put.
>
> Maybe you should get her a dildo to practice on....

Sorry I ruined your evening.

I was trying to be economical and save bndwth (which is saving three letters
right there!). David Nebenzahl asked if the tool cut skin. So, by tagging
the answer to HIS question to the answer to YOUR question, I saved precious
bndwth.

In the future, when answering your questions, I'll stick to the single point
you raise.

I'll also use capital letters and type slowly. To save bndwth.

It's for the chldrn. And, of course, U.

"Gerald Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> So since you actually own one of these tools, perhaps you can answer a
>> question: the MultiMaster infomercial shows, among other wondrous things,
>> a user of the tool pressing the vibrating edge of a tool against his hand
>> with no damage or injury. Is this something you've been able to
>> demonstrate to yourself? (Not asking you to potentially slice open your
>> fingers, just curious.)
>>
>>
> A cast saw works the same way. I always demonstrated by holding the blade
> against the palm of my hand while it was running. However, skin that
> cannot move, like over the shin, can be cut, as well as the bone beneath
> it.
>
> --
> Gerald Ross
> Cochran, GA

I believe the physics behind this is called "differential cutting", where
inelastic objects are cut and elastic objects are left alone. I recall
reading of this principle several years back when scientists were looking at
using it to cut plaque out of arteries with what resembled a rotary tool.
The idea is that the hard(er) plaque would get cut and ther arterial walls
would not.

todd

David Nebenzahl wrote:

> On 5/8/2009 9:14 AM J. Clarke spake thus:
>
>> Pat Barber wrote:
>
> >
>
>>> I have seen many copies of tools over the years
>>> but this one appears to be a "carbon copy" right
>>> down to the attachments.
>>>
>>> TD Driver wrote:
>>>
>>>> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.
>>
>>
>> The real question is what attachments are available and for how much.
>> IIRC HF only has a few blades. Adding a full set of Fein accessories
>> to it is going to run that 40 bucks up right quick. Whether it's
>> going to run it up to more than the "Top" kit from Fein I don't know
>> offhand.
>
>
> But what about the Dremel stuff? Remember that there are now lots of
> players in this game. HeyBub tells us that the HD tool takes at least
> some of the Dremel bits and cutters.
>
>

I know for certain that the Fein MultiMaster can use the Dremel saw
blades as I bought one of the Dremel blades for use about two weeks ago.
$11.00 for the Dremel blade at Home Depot verses $26.00 for the Fein at
Woodcraft.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 5/8/2009 2:13 PM HeyBub spake thus:
>
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
> >
>>> On 5/8/2009 11:45 AM HeyBub spake thus:
>>>
>>>> Interestingly, neither "blade" has a kerf.
>>>
>>> You mean they don't leave a kerf in the material you cut? Why, next
>>> you'll be trying to sell us perpetual motion machines!
>>>
>>> (I know this isn't what you meant--just giving you a hard time.)
>>
>> Oops! Yeah, I meant the "set" of the teeth. That is, they are not offset
>> from the blade's stock.
>>
>> You can even save electricity by bypassing the switch and just wiggling the
>> tool.
>>
>> If you think of the tool as a miniature reciprocating saw, new uses come to
>> mind, such as trimming bushes, carving turkeys, and the like.
>
> So since you actually own one of these tools, perhaps you can answer a
> question: the MultiMaster infomercial shows, among other wondrous
> things, a user of the tool pressing the vibrating edge of a tool against
> his hand with no damage or injury. Is this something you've been able to
> demonstrate to yourself? (Not asking you to potentially slice open your
> fingers, just curious.)
>
>
A cast saw works the same way. I always demonstrated by holding the
blade against the palm of my hand while it was running. However, skin
that cannot move, like over the shin, can be cut, as well as the bone
beneath it.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Guns don't kill people, postal workers do.

On May 14, 9:33=A0am, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2009-05-14, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I have a Dremmel. =A0I used it yesterday with a (router-like base)
> > attachment that made it easy to cut mortises in a door edge and jamb.
> > After drawing tracing the plates, I freehand the cutter close to the
> > pencil line, then cleaned it up with a sharp chisel. =A0 =A0Really nice
> > tool, but I have not tried other brands.
>
> So, now that everyone has gone out and purchased their insanely inexpensi=
ve
> HF multi-tool, how well do they work? =A0C'mon, people. =A0You bought 'em=
, you
> must've gone out and used 'em. =A0Notched and old 2x4, offered to cut out=
that
> slightly off-color tile in your neigbor's bathroom, put a third unnecessa=
ry
> hinge in a door, somewhere. =A0What happened to braggin' on yer new tool?=
=A0
>
> Seriously, I'd be interested to know. =A0Just realized the HF m/t osillat=
es at
> about half the speed of the insanely expensive Fein. =A0Is that a drawbac=
k, or
> just a bit slower in application. =A0Does the tool feel like it will stil=
l be
> functioning in, say, a year? =A0Is JD Power likely to issue an award anyt=
ime
> soon? =A0;)
>
> nb

A new thread with a video was started on this tool.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_frm/thread/f489019096=
b523ed?lnk=3Digtc

Works well. Is surprisingly solid feeling so it will probably last.
Don't know if it is a joke or not but they expect it to last so long
they give you a set of motor brushes with it.

On May 7, 9:22=A0pm, TD Driver <[email protected]> wrote:
> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.
> Here's the link:http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayIt=
em.do?itemid...
>
> Every once in a while I wish I had something like this for trimming some
> molding or whatever. =A0Anybody own this puppy? =A0Dremel has one, too, f=
or
> about $100. =A0Are either of them worth the $$$?

I just picked one up today with a coupon ($35). Coupons are
supposedly unique but give it a try worst they can say is "already
used"

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/common/displayCoupon.do?week=3D1909&cam=
paign=3DRetailB&page=3Dcoupon1.html&single=3Dtrue&r=3D4705_61704&cust=3D780=
26692342&keycode=3D0000

or

http://tinyurl.com/o8nwzn

If you sign up on their website you'll get coupons at least once a
week. I seem to get a 20% any 1 item at least once per month. Latest
Wood Magazine has a 15% off coupon for HF.

The tool flange has rings where the attachment bolts up and a washer
with swirled grooves in it. No pins like on the Dremel I saw in the
Borg. If it works half as good as the Dremel I tried at the Borg it
is worth the $35. If not I'll take it back.

On May 8, 7:31=A0pm, evodawg <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dave Balderstone wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, evodawg
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Maybe you should get her a dildo to practice on....
>
> > Maybe, if we take up a collection, you could buy a sense of humour?
>
> I'm wanting one of these tools. I asked for an honest review not if it cu=
t
> meat or fingers or someones dick. Sure take up the collection and buy me
> the Fein Multimaster, cause I know that one works. I'll give you my addre=
ss
> when you've collected enough, OK!
>
> --
> "You can lead them to LINUX
> but you can't make them THINK"
> Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
> Website Addresshttp://rentmyhusband.biz/

I bought mine at the local HF store in Lincoln, Nebraska. I think I
paid $69.00 for it plus tax. When I got home I checked the HF website
and they had it for $39.00. I called the store and asked them if they
would honor the $39.00 price. They wouldn't. However I am still
satisfied with the tool. My only complaint is that it DOES need to be
really tight to keep the 270 degree blade on.

I had a chance to compare it to a friends FEIN tool. It can't compete
with the FEIN mainly because the speed on the FEIN is almost twice as
fast. It just takes a bit longer with the HF. The $300 saved is OK
with me. However if I used the tool several hours a week I would spend
the extra $300 for the FEIN. The increased production would make it
worthwhile.

Dennis

In article <[email protected]>,
David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 5/8/2009 9:14 AM J. Clarke spake thus:
>
> > Pat Barber wrote:
> >
> >> I have seen many copies of tools over the years
> >> but this one appears to be a "carbon copy" right
> >> down to the attachments.
> >>
> >> TD Driver wrote:
> >>> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.
> >
> > The real question is what attachments are available and for how much. IIRC
> > HF only has a few blades. Adding a full set of Fein accessories to it is
> > going to run that 40 bucks up right quick. Whether it's going to run it up
> > to more than the "Top" kit from Fein I don't know offhand.
>
> But what about the Dremel stuff? Remember that there are now lots of
> players in this game. HeyBub tells us that the HD tool takes at least
> some of the Dremel bits and cutters.

I have and use the dremel - I picked it after testing the Fein and
others. It was the right power for my 11 year old twins and worked well.
I have a wide array of attachments. they kids really like it for doing
modeling work.

TD Driver wrote:
> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.
> Here's the link:
> http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=65700
>
> Every once in a while I wish I had something like this for trimming some
> molding or whatever. Anybody own this puppy? Dremel has one, too, for
> about $100. Are either of them worth the $$$?


Just get one and try it. They have a great return policy.

I'll be picking on up tomorrow. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Pat Barber wrote:
> I have seen many copies of tools over the years
> but this one appears to be a "carbon copy" right
> down to the attachments.
>
> TD Driver wrote:
>> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.

The real question is what attachments are available and for how much. IIRC
HF only has a few blades. Adding a full set of Fein accessories to it is
going to run that 40 bucks up right quick. Whether it's going to run it up
to more than the "Top" kit from Fein I don't know offhand.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
> So since you actually own one of these tools, perhaps you can answer a
> question: the MultiMaster infomercial shows, among other wondrous
> things, a user of the tool pressing the vibrating edge of a tool against
> his hand with no damage or injury. Is this something you've been able to
> demonstrate to yourself? (Not asking you to potentially slice open your
> fingers, just curious.)
>

Have you ever used a reciprocating saw on an unsupported piece of
lumber? You know how it won't cut it, it just moves the piece up and
down real fast? I'm guessing that's how it would work on your hand.

Since these small reciprocating multi-tools have such a tiny distance of
travel in their reciprocating cycle, I'd speculate that they would just
move your hand (or even just the skin) back and forth a tiny bit. I'd
also speculate that you could hold a piece of wood against it, lightly,
and it wouldn't cut it, but move it back and forth, fast.

My local HF was out of their version, today, but are getting a bunch in
their next truckload.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

HeyBub wrote:

> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> On 5/8/2009 11:45 AM HeyBub spake thus:
>>
>>> Interestingly, neither "blade" has a kerf.
>>
>> You mean they don't leave a kerf in the material you cut? Why, next
>> you'll be trying to sell us perpetual motion machines!
>>
>> (I know this isn't what you meant--just giving you a hard time.)
>
> Oops! Yeah, I meant the "set" of the teeth. That is, they are not offset
> from the blade's stock.
>
> You can even save electricity by bypassing the switch and just wiggling
> the tool.
>
> If you think of the tool as a miniature reciprocating saw, new uses come
> to mind, such as trimming bushes, carving turkeys, and the like.

Few questions, Does the Dremel hold the cutting tool. I tried one at a show
and the blade kept falling off the teeth/dowels that holds it in place. It
seemed the washer wasn't getting tight enough to hold it against the blade.
Does the HF Tool have teeth to hold the tool, I see the blades have 4 holes
in them so I'd expect the tool has 4 teeth or dowels???? I need one of
these tools to trim baseboard to accommodate wider door casings.

Thanks for any review you can provide.
Rich

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 5/8/2009 2:13 PM HeyBub spake thus:
>
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
> >
>>> On 5/8/2009 11:45 AM HeyBub spake thus:
>>>
>>>> Interestingly, neither "blade" has a kerf.
>>>
>>> You mean they don't leave a kerf in the material you cut? Why, next
>>> you'll be trying to sell us perpetual motion machines!
>>>
>>> (I know this isn't what you meant--just giving you a hard time.)
>>
>> Oops! Yeah, I meant the "set" of the teeth. That is, they are not
>> offset from the blade's stock.
>>
>> You can even save electricity by bypassing the switch and just
>> wiggling the tool.
>>
>> If you think of the tool as a miniature reciprocating saw, new uses
>> come to mind, such as trimming bushes, carving turkeys, and the like.
>
> So since you actually own one of these tools, perhaps you can answer a
> question: the MultiMaster infomercial shows, among other wondrous
> things, a user of the tool pressing the vibrating edge of a tool
> against his hand with no damage or injury. Is this something you've
> been able to demonstrate to yourself? (Not asking you to potentially
> slice open your fingers, just curious.)

Haven't tried it with the Harbor Freight, but I have personally verified it
with the Fein.

Same principle as the saws that doctors use to remove casts--it cuts the
cast but if they go too deep it doesn't cut the skin.

I suspect that it would be a different story with the knife-edged tools.
Haven't tried it with one of them.

HeyBub wrote:
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> On 5/8/2009 11:45 AM HeyBub spake thus:
>>
>>> Interestingly, neither "blade" has a kerf.
>>
>> You mean they don't leave a kerf in the material you cut? Why, next
>> you'll be trying to sell us perpetual motion machines!
>>
>> (I know this isn't what you meant--just giving you a hard time.)
>
> Oops! Yeah, I meant the "set" of the teeth. That is, they are not
> offset from the blade's stock.
>
> You can even save electricity by bypassing the switch and just
> wiggling the tool.
>
> If you think of the tool as a miniature reciprocating saw, new uses
> come to mind, such as trimming bushes, carving turkeys, and the like.

My problem with doing that is that I can get a whole package of
recriprocating saw blades for the price of one for the Multimaster.

HeyBub wrote:

> evodawg wrote:
>>>
>>> You can even save electricity by bypassing the switch and just
>>> wiggling the tool.
>>>
>>> If you think of the tool as a miniature reciprocating saw, new uses
>>> come to mind, such as trimming bushes, carving turkeys, and the like.
>>
>> Few questions, Does the Dremel hold the cutting tool. I tried one at
>> a show and the blade kept falling off the teeth/dowels that holds it
>> in place. It seemed the washer wasn't getting tight enough to hold it
>> against the blade. Does the HF Tool have teeth to hold the tool, I
>> see the blades have 4 holes in them so I'd expect the tool has 4
>> teeth or dowels???? I need one of these tools to trim baseboard to
>> accommodate wider door casings.
>>
>> Thanks for any review you can provide.
>> Rich
>
> Well, you've got to snug the blade down pretty hard. I mean REALLY tighten
> the allen-bolt. Spot welding helps. You learn.
>
> As to whether the machine will cut human tissue, no it won't.
>
> In fact, my tool went missing. I found it on the nightstand next to the
> bed and my current squeeze claimed complete ignorance...

I could careless if it cuts human tissue. If your stupid enough to let it
cut you then you deserve it. I just want to know if it works and the blade
stays put.

Maybe you should get her a dildo to practice on....
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

Dave Balderstone wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, evodawg
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Maybe you should get her a dildo to practice on....
>
> Maybe, if we take up a collection, you could buy a sense of humour?

I'm wanting one of these tools. I asked for an honest review not if it cut
meat or fingers or someones dick. Sure take up the collection and buy me
the Fein Multimaster, cause I know that one works. I'll give you my address
when you've collected enough, OK!

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

> I bought mine at the local HF store in Lincoln, Nebraska. I think I
> paid $69.00 for it plus tax. When I got home I checked the HF website
> and they had it for $39.00. I called the store and asked them if they
> would honor the $39.00 price. They wouldn't. However I am still
> satisfied with the tool. My only complaint is that it DOES need to be
> really tight to keep the 270 degree blade on.
>

That's weird, our local store will honor the online prices.
Wish they all followed the same policies.

You could've ordered it online and returned yours.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

TwoGuns wrote:

> On May 8, 7:31 pm, evodawg <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> > In article <[email protected]>, evodawg
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> Maybe you should get her a dildo to practice on....
>>
>> > Maybe, if we take up a collection, you could buy a sense of humour?
>>
>> I'm wanting one of these tools. I asked for an honest review not if it
>> cut meat or fingers or someones dick. Sure take up the collection and buy
>> me the Fein Multimaster, cause I know that one works. I'll give you my
>> address when you've collected enough, OK!
>>
>> --
>> "You can lead them to LINUX
>> but you can't make them THINK"
>> Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
>> Website Addresshttp://rentmyhusband.biz/
>
> I bought mine at the local HF store in Lincoln, Nebraska. I think I
> paid $69.00 for it plus tax. When I got home I checked the HF website
> and they had it for $39.00. I called the store and asked them if they
> would honor the $39.00 price. They wouldn't. However I am still
> satisfied with the tool. My only complaint is that it DOES need to be
> really tight to keep the 270 degree blade on.
>
> I had a chance to compare it to a friends FEIN tool. It can't compete
> with the FEIN mainly because the speed on the FEIN is almost twice as
> fast. It just takes a bit longer with the HF. The $300 saved is OK
> with me. However if I used the tool several hours a week I would spend
> the extra $300 for the FEIN. The increased production would make it
> worthwhile.
>
> Dennis

Thanks Dennis, that's the review I was looking for. I'd probably use it a
few times a week. I'm also looking at the Bosch, probably along the same
line as the Fein but a little cheaper. More then likely it will be used to
undercut door casements and baseboard when upgrading to wider door
casement. It's almost impossible to cut when in place.

Thank You,

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

Nova wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On May 8, 1:46 pm, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I know for certain that the Fein MultiMaster can use the Dremel saw
>>> blades as I bought one of the Dremel blades for use about two weeks
>>> ago. $11.00 for the Dremel blade at Home Depot verses $26.00 for
>>> the Fein at Woodcraft.
>>
>>
>> So Jack, I guess the question that has to be asked, are the Dremel
>> blades as good or at comparible in quality to the Fein in practical
>> use?
>>
>> Also, I am remembering some discussion on another group of the
>> problems with blades loosening up on the Dremels when being used. A
>> call to Dremel ( IF I am remembering correctly) got the individual
>> some kind of star washer or other arrangment to help remedy that
>> problem.
>>
>> Anyway, have you had a chance to use the Dremel blades, and more
>> importantly, do you like them? I wouldn't expect Fein quality at
>> half the price, but wonder if the blades are just more Chinese crap.
>>
>> Robert
>
> So far I've only used it to under cut four door jambs while
> installing a laminate floor. As far as I can tell the blade works as
> well as the Fein. I did not have a problem with the Dremel blade
> loosening on the Fein any more than a Fein blade. You do have to
> tighten the set screw securely on both blades. I did like not having
> to completely remove the screw to install or remove the blade. It's
> only a minor convenience but one that was noted.

Note that the current Fein models address both of these issues--there is now
a star shaped arbor that prevents the blade from shifting and there is now a
quick release instead of a set screw. There is an adapter that adds the new
arbor to the older models--it has carbide teeth on the back that cut into
the flat arbor to ensure that it stays put, or if you want to be really sure
it can be spot welded.

krw wrote:

> On Sun, 10 May 2009 07:01:59 -0500, "HeyBub"
<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> Note that the current Fein models address both of these
issues--there
>>> is now a star shaped arbor that prevents the blade from
shifting and
>>> there is now a quick release instead of a set screw.
There is an
>>> adapter that adds the new arbor to the older models--it
has carbide
>>> teeth on the back that cut into the flat arbor to ensure
that it
>>> stays put, or if you want to be really sure it can be spot
welded.
>>
>>Right. Fein's patent on the original tool expired - which
generates a ton
>>of competition - so they make some needed improvements and
get another
>>seventeen years of exclusivity with a new patent.
>
> Without which there would be no improvement.
>
>>For those who decry monopolies, remember monopolies are
encouraged by the
>>Constitution (Article I, Section 8). "The Congress shall
have the Power
>>To....securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors
the exclusive
>>Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
>
> Well, invention is Constitutionally encouraged. The limited
patent
> monopoly is a means to reward invention; a fair tradeoff,
IMO.
Yes but in China they encourage the opposite.

HeyBub wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> Note that the current Fein models address both of these issues--there
>> is now a star shaped arbor that prevents the blade from shifting and
>> there is now a quick release instead of a set screw. There is an
>> adapter that adds the new arbor to the older models--it has carbide
>> teeth on the back that cut into the flat arbor to ensure that it
>> stays put, or if you want to be really sure it can be spot welded.
>
> Right. Fein's patent on the original tool expired - which generates a ton of
> competition - so they make some needed improvements and get another
> seventeen years of exclusivity with a new patent.
>
> For those who decry monopolies, remember monopolies are encouraged by the
> Constitution (Article I, Section 8). "The Congress shall have the Power
> To....securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive
> Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
>

"monopolies are encouraged" is an interesting way to look at protection
of intellectual property. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Douglas Johnson wrote:
> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "monopolies are encouraged" is an interesting way to look at protection
>> of intellectual property. :-)
>
> That is exactly the deal with a patent or copyright. The inventor (or author)
> gets a monopoly for a limited period of time in return for putting the work in
> the public domain at the end of that time. Copyright times have gotten way too
> long in my opinion, but that is a side detail.
>
> If an inventor wants to protect something indefinitely, they can keep it as a
> trade secret (like the formula for Coca-Cola). But that doesn't protect them
> from independent invention.
>
> -- Doug

I don't think it's fair or accurate to equate design patents with
monopolies.

Your cola analogy was good in distinguishing between monopoly and design
patents.
A monopoly would mean there is one company making and selling all the
Cola in the country.
A patent just means Joe's Cola is the only one who can make and sell his
patented, steroid enriched "Rage-a-Cola"


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

David Nebenzahl wrote:

> On 5/10/2009 2:37 PM HeyBub spake thus:
>
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>>> Right. Fein's patent on the original tool expired - which generates
>>>> a ton of competition - so they make some needed improvements and get
>>>> another seventeen years of exclusivity with a new patent.
>>>>
>>>> For those who decry monopolies, remember monopolies are encouraged
>>>> by the Constitution (Article I, Section 8). "The Congress shall have
>>>> the Power To....securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors
>>>> the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
>>>
>>> "monopolies are encouraged" is an interesting way to look at
>>> protection of intellectual property. :-)
>>
>> Well, that's the way it was put to us in ConLaw class. Don't forget,
>> monopolies are, in the main, good.
>
> Totally disagree with that (about monopolies being good); more on this
> below.
>
> But regarding that law class, it reminds me of my days in business
> school. One of the best classes I ever took was business law. Now, you
> know my political beliefs: well to the left of center. The class was
> taught by an older conservative Mormon rancher type. Yet it turned out
> to be one of the best classes I took the entire time I was in school
> there (NAU in Flagstaff). The guy was very fair-minded, and covered all
> the basics (contract law, basic legal concepts, etc.) very clearly.
>
>> And about the only monopolies that are bad for the consumer are those
>> that are government-controlled or owned (i.e., utilities, postal
service,
>> etc.).
>>
>> Even the arch-demon of monopolies, Standard Oil, managed to lower the
>> price of Kerosene from $3.00/gallon to 5¢/gallon ! And they did it in
>> three years. Of course the suppliers of whale oil were put out of
>> business - and complained lustily - but Standard Oil pushed back the
>> night.
>
> This, of course, elides many cases of malicious malfeasance
attributable
> to the likes of Standard Oil and other monopolies. In general,
> monopolies are things to be avoided wherever possible; only a few
cases,
> among them ones you listed above, are good candidates for manageable
> monopolies.

Would you consider the US Government a monopoly? I also love the fact the
US Government taxes the Oil Companies to the extreme of making more off a
gallon of gas then the outfit that produces it, just for the opportunity
to do business in this country. Does anyone know what the US averages in
dollars collected per year in TAXES? Just curious.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 5/10/2009 7:29 PM Larry Blanchard spake thus:
>
>> On Sun, 10 May 2009 16:37:52 -0500, HeyBub wrote:
>>
>>> And about the only monopolies that are bad for the consumer are
>>> those that are government-controlled or owned (i.e., utilities,
>>> postal service, etc.).
>>
>> I'll have to disagree in part with that blanket statement. For
>> about the 1st 30 years of my life, I lived where electricity was a
>> municipal utility. Worked fine. I now live where Avista, formerly
>> Washington Water and Power, has a monopoly. Every year or two they
>> go before the PUC and claim they have to raise rates. Shortly after
>> they get their way, they issue a stockholder report proclaiming
>> record profits.
>>
>> I'll take the government owned electric company every time.
>
> Amen. Public power means at least *some* public control of utility
> rates and policies. (As opposed to *none* over private
> utilities--except very indirectly, through a PUC or whatever.)

Some moron here decided that we needed competition in the electric power
industry, so the power company no longer deals directly with the end user,
instead they deal with a middleman who deals with the end user. The result,
of course, has been that the middleman puts a markup on the price that the
company that owns the wires and generators charges, and the consumer takes
it in the ass.

HeyBub wrote:
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>>
>>> Even the arch-demon of monopolies, Standard Oil, managed to lower
>>> the price of Kerosene from $3.00/gallon to 5¢/gallon ! And they did
>>> it in three years. Of course the suppliers of whale oil were put out
>>> of business - and complained lustily - but Standard Oil pushed back
>>> the night.
>>
>> This, of course, elides many cases of malicious malfeasance
>> attributable to the likes of Standard Oil and other monopolies. In
>> general, monopolies are things to be avoided wherever possible; only
>> a few cases, among them ones you listed above, are good candidates
>> for manageable monopolies.
>
> I agree. Standard Oil's methods of putting competitors out of
> business was despicable.
>
> But it was the COMPETITION that suffered from Standard Oil's
> practices - not the average consumer. The consumer benefited
> enormously.
>
> To be more current, consider Microsoft's battle in Europe over
> imbedding multi-media code within the operating system. Did the
> consumer complain? Absolutely not! The whole thing was brought to the
> courts by RealPlayer (they tried the same thing in the U.S.). So, as
> a result of the EU court decisions, Microsoft offered a version of XP
> without MediaPlayer.
>
> I think Microsoft sold about eight copies.
>
> My point is that railing against monopolies is almost never based on
> consumer needs - it's the competitors that are stirring up the folk.

My pet peeve in that regard is the lawsuit that resulted in the breakup of
AT&T, the main effect of which was to end Bell Labs, one of the finest
research organizations that ever existed.

David Nebenzahl wrote:

> On 5/10/2009 4:19 PM evodawg spake thus:
>
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> This, of course, elides many cases of malicious malfeasance
>>> attributable to the likes of Standard Oil and other monopolies. In
>>> general, monopolies are things to be avoided wherever possible;
>>> only a few cases, among them ones you listed above, are good
>>> candidates for manageable monopolies.
>>
>> Would you consider the US Government a monopoly? I also love the fact
>> the US Government taxes the Oil Companies to the extreme of making
>> more off a gallon of gas then the outfit that produces it, just for
>> the opportunity to do business in this country. Does anyone know what
>> the US averages in dollars collected per year in TAXES? Just
>> curious.
>
> The U.S. government a monopoly? No, it's a government.
>
> You are aware, aren't you, that gas taxes are much higher in Yurp?
>
>
Of course I am. But then everything is higher in Europe. TAXES?? So that
statement implies we should be more like Europe?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

Limp Arbor wrote:
> http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/common/displayCoupon.do?week=1909&campaign=RetailB&page=coupon1.html&single=true&r=4705_61704&cust=78026692342&keycode=0000
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/o8nwzn
>

Worked for me, got mine this afternoon.
I'll check it out and report back.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Phisherman wrote:
> On Thu, 07 May 2009 20:22:26 -0500, TD Driver
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.
>> Here's the link:
>> http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=65700
>>
>> Every once in a while I wish I had something like this for trimming
>> some molding or whatever. Anybody own this puppy? Dremel has one,
>> too, for about $100. Are either of them worth the $$$?
>
>
> I have a Dremmel. I used it yesterday with a (router-like base)
> attachment that made it easy to cut mortises in a door edge and jamb.
> After drawing tracing the plates, I freehand the cutter close to the
> pencil line, then cleaned it up with a sharp chisel. Really nice
> tool, but I have not tried other brands.

The Dremel under discussion is
http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Tools/Pages/ToolDetail.aspx?pid=Multi-Max.

Different tool.

HeyBub wrote:
> krw wrote:
>> I'd like to (IOW it's on the honeydew list) put a hearth in front of
>> our (gas) fireplace but haven't figured out how to cut the bamboo
>> flooring so I can inlay tile, of some sort. It looks dumb without a
>> hearth and with one I could even burn wood. Why the builder didn't
>> put one in I'll never know.
>
>> Would this sort of tool do the job? The
>> issue, of course, is cutting up to the wall, fireplace.
>
> Yep. No problemo.
>
> You might consider making the long cuts with a circular saw set to the
> correct depth and use the MF tool to sneak up to the intersections
> and the wall.

Yep. Cutting long straight lines is not its strong suit.

"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 14 May 2009 09:42:35 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Phisherman wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 May 2009 20:22:26 -0500, TD Driver
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.
>>>> Here's the link:
>>>> http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=65700
>>>>
>>>> Every once in a while I wish I had something like this for trimming
>>>> some molding or whatever. Anybody own this puppy? Dremel has one,
>>>> too, for about $100. Are either of them worth the $$$?
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a Dremmel. I used it yesterday with a (router-like base)
>>> attachment that made it easy to cut mortises in a door edge and jamb.
>>> After drawing tracing the plates, I freehand the cutter close to the
>>> pencil line, then cleaned it up with a sharp chisel. Really nice
>>> tool, but I have not tried other brands.
>>
>>The Dremel under discussion is
>>http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Tools/Pages/ToolDetail.aspx?pid=Multi-Max.
>>
>>Different tool.
>
> I've been thinking about the Bosch cordless version.
>
> http://www.cpotools.com/other_tools_and_equipment/multi-x/ps50-2b.html
>
> I'd like to (IOW it's on the honeydew list) put a hearth in front of
> our (gas) fireplace but haven't figured out how to cut the bamboo
> flooring so I can inlay tile, of some sort. It looks dumb without a
> hearth and with one I could even burn wood. Why the builder didn't
> put one in I'll never know. Would this sort of tool do the job? The
> issue, of course, is cutting up to the wall, fireplace.

it's code to have a non-burnable hearth before a wood burning fireplace; it
is not required to have one in front of a gas fireplace. guess which is
cheaper?

notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2009-05-10, HeyBub <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> For those who decry monopolies, remember monopolies are encouraged by the
>> Constitution (Article I, Section 8). "The Congress shall have the Power
>> To....securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive
>> Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
>
> Unfortunately, it's been abused beyond belief. What was once copyrighted
> for 15 yrs has now been extended to 75 yrs BEYOND the originator's death.
> Europe has just recently passed similar legislation. This all because the
> distribution industry has greased pol palms. I'm not sure about latest
> patent laws.
>
> Fortunately, China laughs at such nonsense and will disregard it to provide
> an equal, even if sometimes lesser quality, product. Hence, Harbor Freight.
>
> Another thing, is the quality one expects always there. One of the most
> common items procured from the stores of a govt lab I worked at was the
> right angle gear-head of the German made Bosch 4-1/2" high speed grinder.
> Apparently, a very popular tool with a high failure rate. I have one and
> have never had to replace it, but I also do not use it often, so it has
> little wear.
>
> Another example of China made stuff I've been happy with is a hand-held
> power bandsaw. Milwaukee wants almost $400. I got mine for $140. Dual
> speed and works great. The blades were junk, but Milwaukee blades fit

I would like to add the crown jewel--metalworking horizontal/vertical
bandsaw for something like $150 or so. They are sold under multiple names
being EXACTLY the same saw less different color and nametag. The HF one is
at least three times cheaper than a closest competitor and it works like a
charm. I can not count how many tons of various metals I cut with mine
during those several years I owe it. Yes, original blades are junk but even
with a cheap Rigid brand one from Home Depot it runs like Energizer Bunny...
It is simply an outstanding tool.

The other one is a Chinese clone of a Chinese (zic!) welder. There is a
bunch of those that are only differ in color and name. Mine is Everlast
Super200P. I paid for it $800 and it does almost everything that $3,000
Miller Dynasty 200DX does and it has better duty cycle. It can even do
plasma cutting however I use another Chinese clone of Chinese Riland, Cut60D
for plasma. I paid $400 for mine and it is 60A. Super200P does AC/DC TIG,
Stick and it does it very well. It is simply a pleasure to weld with
"difficult to run" 5P aka 6010 electrodes; they burn like matches with 90%
Arc Force...

Yes, most of Chinese stuff brought here is crap. But there are also some
jewels at unbelievable prices. And one can find almost all those Husky etc.
"brand" tools at HF under generic Chinese name. Not similar ones but EXACTLY
the same tools.

---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

TD Driver wrote:
> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.
> Here's the link:
> http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=65700
>
> Every once in a while I wish I had something like this for trimming
> some molding or whatever. Anybody own this puppy? Dremel has one,
> too, for about $100. Are either of them worth the $$$?

I got the HF one the first day they went on sale (last Black Friday).

Yeah, it's worth it.

I've used mine for:

* Undercutting door frames when laying tile.
* Precision trimming for laminate flooring and counter tops.
* Cutting holes in sheetrock.
* Sanding in confined places.

The blades are interchangeable between manufacturers (mostly). That is, the
Dremel blades fit the HF tool.

On Sun, 10 May 2009 07:01:59 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> Note that the current Fein models address both of these issues--there
>> is now a star shaped arbor that prevents the blade from shifting and
>> there is now a quick release instead of a set screw. There is an
>> adapter that adds the new arbor to the older models--it has carbide
>> teeth on the back that cut into the flat arbor to ensure that it
>> stays put, or if you want to be really sure it can be spot welded.
>
>Right. Fein's patent on the original tool expired - which generates a ton of
>competition - so they make some needed improvements and get another
>seventeen years of exclusivity with a new patent.

Without which there would be no improvement.

>For those who decry monopolies, remember monopolies are encouraged by the
>Constitution (Article I, Section 8). "The Congress shall have the Power
>To....securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive
>Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

Well, invention is Constitutionally encouraged. The limited patent
monopoly is a means to reward invention; a fair tradeoff, IMO.

"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> I've been thinking about the Bosch cordless version.
>
> http://www.cpotools.com/other_tools_and_equipment/multi-x/ps50-2b.html
>
> I'd like to (IOW it's on the honeydew list) put a hearth in front of
> our (gas) fireplace but haven't figured out how to cut the bamboo
> flooring so I can inlay tile, of some sort. It looks dumb without a
> hearth and with one I could even burn wood. Why the builder didn't
> put one in I'll never know. Would this sort of tool do the job? The
> issue, of course, is cutting up to the wall, fireplace.


While cordless would be a nice feature, consider that this type tool sorta
falls into the specialty tool category. Unless you know that you would
actually use it as often as say a cordless drill you may want to get a
corded model. I have the Fein corded and have used it often and it is great
for handling those problem situations I run into but I probably only use it
10-12 times a year. It and the Bosch should last a life time, the batteries
will not. I suspect that the batteries will die of old age and have to be
replaced time and again rather than being worn out. Just something to think
about.

On Thu, 07 May 2009 20:22:26 -0500, TD Driver
<[email protected]> wrote:

>HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.
>Here's the link:
>http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=65700
>
>Every once in a while I wish I had something like this for trimming some
>molding or whatever. Anybody own this puppy? Dremel has one, too, for
>about $100. Are either of them worth the $$$?


I have a Dremmel. I used it yesterday with a (router-like base)
attachment that made it easy to cut mortises in a door edge and jamb.
After drawing tracing the plates, I freehand the cutter close to the
pencil line, then cleaned it up with a sharp chisel. Really nice
tool, but I have not tried other brands.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:9bae85a8-e9d0-4f7c-b667-da9f4b8048d2@s28g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On May 8, 1:46 pm, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:

> I know for certain that the Fein MultiMaster can use the Dremel saw
> blades as I bought one of the Dremel blades for use about two weeks ago.
> $11.00 for the Dremel blade at Home Depot verses $26.00 for the Fein at
> Woodcraft.

So Jack, I guess the question that has to be asked, are the Dremel
blades as good or at comparible in quality to the Fein in practical
use?

Also, I am remembering some discussion on another group of the
problems with blades loosening up on the Dremels when being used. A
call to Dremel ( IF I am remembering correctly) got the individual
some kind of star washer or other arrangment to help remedy that
problem.

Anyway, have you had a chance to use the Dremel blades, and more
importantly, do you like them? I wouldn't expect Fein quality at half
the price, but wonder if the blades are just more Chinese crap.

Robert

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They loosen up on the Fein (model I bought lo these many years ago), they
don't cut flesh (showed my wife this just two days ago), and they Bend. Had
to pound one flat for work this week. When I bought mine it was over priced
and I suspect it still is. I'd buy the HF Chinese Crap, just make sure you
clean off the Cosmoline/CatPee before use. If you have cats or dogs (well,
any mammal with a nose), get the box into the recycling right quick. They
use Cat Pee in the cardboard glue. Same stuff they use in the plywood. I'm
thinking they got a Lot of cats in China ...

"TwoGuns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d16bcc33-90d2-487a-9100-29e804c6aabf@y33g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On May 8, 7:31 pm, evodawg <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dave Balderstone wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, evodawg
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Maybe you should get her a dildo to practice on....
>
> > Maybe, if we take up a collection, you could buy a sense of humour?
>
> I'm wanting one of these tools. I asked for an honest review not if it cut
> meat or fingers or someones dick. Sure take up the collection and buy me
> the Fein Multimaster, cause I know that one works. I'll give you my
> address
> when you've collected enough, OK!
>
> --
> "You can lead them to LINUX
> but you can't make them THINK"
> Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
> Website Addresshttp://rentmyhusband.biz/

I bought mine at the local HF store in Lincoln, Nebraska. I think I
paid $69.00 for it plus tax. When I got home I checked the HF website
and they had it for $39.00. I called the store and asked them if they
would honor the $39.00 price. They wouldn't. However I am still
satisfied with the tool. My only complaint is that it DOES need to be
really tight to keep the 270 degree blade on.

I had a chance to compare it to a friends FEIN tool. It can't compete
with the FEIN mainly because the speed on the FEIN is almost twice as
fast. It just takes a bit longer with the HF. The $300 saved is OK
with me. However if I used the tool several hours a week I would spend
the extra $300 for the FEIN. The increased production would make it
worthwhile.

Dennis

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have the Fein and have the same problem with the 270 degree blade.
Astounding that even the FLAWS are copied! I have not used mine enough to
justify the $200 or so that I paid for it, but it did get dragged out this
week to cut some molding in a hallway where we are putting in new flooring.
I bought it when I had more money than sense. Now my money and sense are
equally low ...

-MIKE- wrote:
>>
>> Right. Fein's patent on the original tool expired - which generates
>> a ton of competition - so they make some needed improvements and get
>> another seventeen years of exclusivity with a new patent.
>>
>> For those who decry monopolies, remember monopolies are encouraged
>> by the Constitution (Article I, Section 8). "The Congress shall have
>> the Power To....securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors
>> the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
>>
>
> "monopolies are encouraged" is an interesting way to look at
> protection of intellectual property. :-)

Well, that's the way it was put to us in ConLaw class. Don't forget,
monopolies are, in the main, good.

And about the only monopolies that are bad for the consumer are those that
are government-controlled or owned (i.e., utilities, postal service, etc.).

Even the arch-demon of monopolies, Standard Oil, managed to lower the price
of Kerosene from $3.00/gallon to 5¢/gallon ! And they did it in three years.
Of course the suppliers of whale oil were put out of business - and
complained lustily - but Standard Oil pushed back the night.

No longer did we have to have sex in the dark.

On Fri, 8 May 2009 18:47:26 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:

>evodawg wrote:
>>>
>>> You can even save electricity by bypassing the switch and just
>>> wiggling the tool.
>>>
>>> If you think of the tool as a miniature reciprocating saw, new uses
>>> come to mind, such as trimming bushes, carving turkeys, and the like.
>>
>> Few questions, Does the Dremel hold the cutting tool. I tried one at
>> a show and the blade kept falling off the teeth/dowels that holds it
>> in place. It seemed the washer wasn't getting tight enough to hold it
>> against the blade. Does the HF Tool have teeth to hold the tool, I
>> see the blades have 4 holes in them so I'd expect the tool has 4
>> teeth or dowels???? I need one of these tools to trim baseboard to
>> accommodate wider door casings.
>>
>> Thanks for any review you can provide.
>> Rich
>
>Well, you've got to snug the blade down pretty hard. I mean REALLY tighten
>the allen-bolt. Spot welding helps. You learn.
>
>As to whether the machine will cut human tissue, no it won't.
>
>In fact, my tool went missing. I found it on the nightstand next to the bed
>and my current squeeze claimed complete ignorance...
>
Good thing it's corded..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On 2009-05-10, HeyBub <[email protected]> wrote:

> For those who decry monopolies, remember monopolies are encouraged by the
> Constitution (Article I, Section 8). "The Congress shall have the Power
> To....securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive
> Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

Unfortunately, it's been abused beyond belief. What was once copyrighted
for 15 yrs has now been extended to 75 yrs BEYOND the originator's death.
Europe has just recently passed similar legislation. This all because the
distribution industry has greased pol palms. I'm not sure about latest
patent laws.

Fortunately, China laughs at such nonsense and will disregard it to provide
an equal, even if sometimes lesser quality, product. Hence, Harbor Freight.

Another thing, is the quality one expects always there. One of the most
common items procured from the stores of a govt lab I worked at was the
right angle gear-head of the German made Bosch 4-1/2" high speed grinder.
Apparently, a very popular tool with a high failure rate. I have one and
have never had to replace it, but I also do not use it often, so it has
little wear.

Another example of China made stuff I've been happy with is a hand-held
power bandsaw. Milwaukee wants almost $400. I got mine for $140. Dual
speed and works great. The blades were junk, but Milwaukee blades fit
perfectly. I've also had a 2-1/2 ton floor jack and jack stands made in
China that were superior to similar US made items costing three times as
much.

I learned a long time ago that tools should be judged on an individual
basis. You cannot assume anything based on a brand name or country of
origin.


nb

On 2009-05-14, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have a Dremmel. I used it yesterday with a (router-like base)
> attachment that made it easy to cut mortises in a door edge and jamb.
> After drawing tracing the plates, I freehand the cutter close to the
> pencil line, then cleaned it up with a sharp chisel. Really nice
> tool, but I have not tried other brands.

So, now that everyone has gone out and purchased their insanely inexpensive
HF multi-tool, how well do they work? C'mon, people. You bought 'em, you
must've gone out and used 'em. Notched and old 2x4, offered to cut out that
slightly off-color tile in your neigbor's bathroom, put a third unnecessary
hinge in a door, somewhere. What happened to braggin' on yer new tool?

Seriously, I'd be interested to know. Just realized the HF m/t osillates at
about half the speed of the insanely expensive Fein. Is that a drawback, or
just a bit slower in application. Does the tool feel like it will still be
functioning in, say, a year? Is JD Power likely to issue an award anytime
soon? ;)

nb

David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>> Even the arch-demon of monopolies, Standard Oil, managed to lower
>> the price of Kerosene from $3.00/gallon to 5¢/gallon ! And they did
>> it in three years. Of course the suppliers of whale oil were put out
>> of business - and complained lustily - but Standard Oil pushed back
>> the night.
>
> This, of course, elides many cases of malicious malfeasance
> attributable to the likes of Standard Oil and other monopolies. In
> general, monopolies are things to be avoided wherever possible; only
> a few cases, among them ones you listed above, are good candidates
> for manageable monopolies.

I agree. Standard Oil's methods of putting competitors out of business was
despicable.

But it was the COMPETITION that suffered from Standard Oil's practices - not
the average consumer. The consumer benefited enormously.

To be more current, consider Microsoft's battle in Europe over imbedding
multi-media code within the operating system. Did the consumer complain?
Absolutely not! The whole thing was brought to the courts by RealPlayer
(they tried the same thing in the U.S.). So, as a result of the EU court
decisions, Microsoft offered a version of XP without MediaPlayer.

I think Microsoft sold about eight copies.

My point is that railing against monopolies is almost never based on
consumer needs - it's the competitors that are stirring up the folk.

I have seen many copies of tools over the years
but this one appears to be a "carbon copy" right
down to the attachments.

TD Driver wrote:
> HF has their version of the Fein multimaster on sale for under $40.

[email protected] wrote:
> On May 8, 1:46 pm, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I know for certain that the Fein MultiMaster can use the Dremel saw
>> blades as I bought one of the Dremel blades for use about two weeks
>> ago. $11.00 for the Dremel blade at Home Depot verses $26.00 for the
>> Fein at Woodcraft.
>
> So Jack, I guess the question that has to be asked, are the Dremel
> blades as good or at comparible in quality to the Fein in practical
> use?
>
> Also, I am remembering some discussion on another group of the
> problems with blades loosening up on the Dremels when being used. A
> call to Dremel ( IF I am remembering correctly) got the individual
> some kind of star washer or other arrangment to help remedy that
> problem.
>
> Anyway, have you had a chance to use the Dremel blades, and more
> importantly, do you like them? I wouldn't expect Fein quality at half
> the price, but wonder if the blades are just more Chinese crap.
>
> Robert

There's not much "quality" in any of the blades. The blade is a flat piece
of metal whose business end is serrated. In every way, the teeth look like
they were fashioned by pinking shears!

Don't think of the blade as a typical saw.

The "teeth" are not sharpened, set, or even very pointy. Now the teeth COULD
be harder, but that would make the blade more brittle. Probably what they've
got is a rough trade-off between durability and total failure.

On the plus side, when the teeth DO wear down, you've got a new scraper.

On Sun, 10 May 2009 16:37:52 -0500, HeyBub wrote:

> And about the only monopolies that are bad for the consumer are those
> that are government-controlled or owned (i.e., utilities, postal
> service, etc.).

I'll have to disagree in part with that blanket statement. For about the
1st 30 years of my life, I lived where electricity was a municipal
utility. Worked fine. I now live where Avista, formerly Washington
Water and Power, has a monopoly. Every year or two they go before the
PUC and claim they have to raise rates. Shortly after they get their
way, they issue a stockholder report proclaiming record profits.

I'll take the government owned electric company every time.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw