Leon wrote:
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "Upscale"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of
>>> fittings
>>> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for
>>> these
>>> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
>>> what others have done?
>> Well, you need *some* kind of pipe dope in there, if you think you'll ever
>> want to take the joint apart a few years down the road. Some folks will
>> tell
>> you never to use teflon tape with compressed air, but I've never had a
>> problem. Just make sure you apply the tape to the male threads only, and
>> keep
>> it on the threads -- don't get any into the air passages.
>
> Just curious, have you seen any one apply tape to the female threads???
>
>
I think I've got a tool for that from HF.
On Jul 7, 7:15=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of fitti=
ngs
> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for th=
ese
> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wonderin=
g
> what others have done?
I think you need some kind of sealant. I have used teflon tape on
mine.
Interesting discussion here
http://www.homerepairforum.com/forum/plumbing/4149-teflon-tape-liquid-threa=
d-sealant.html
Luigi
On Jul 13, 1:36=A0pm, [email protected] (Larry W) wrote:
> Hey, guys, lets stick to topics we know something about, like electricity=
.
>
> (paraphrasing a formerly prolific rw poster)
C'mon Larry, the plumbing, 'lectric & politico-religious threads allow
those who know nothing about woodworking to pontificate.
L.
In article <[email protected]>, Lew Hodgett
<[email protected]> wrote:
> A principle of mine was paid in excess of $10,000 for a service call
> to a refinery for a piece of combustion equipment they had sold that
> the refinery installed.
We're talking about a home workshop and compressed air, not a freaking
refinery!
I use tape. Never had a problem, but if I did it would not be a $10,000
fix. More like $1 - $10.
--
Kiva - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/lender/david87375440
On Jul 14, 2:17=A0am, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 13, 11:37=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > Holy Crap!
> > > 72 Posts on Plumber's Tape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > You guys are life-deficient.
>
> > But, but, but.... I got to dream of women draped out in Teflon tape.
>
> > That's a life isn't it?
>
> Good troll for a non-political question. :-)
>
> Luigi
We did pretty well with a 'summer dresses' thread-jack
once.........those were the days.
Summer dresses are wonderful... unless it's on that bitch Ann Coulter,
then anything looks like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:47:32 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Doug Miller wrote:
...
>>Anyway, if one is using a compression fitting, pipe dope or tape is not
>>needed, and may in fact be detrimental to the connection. I have seen
>>compression fittings where pipe dope was used on the joint by someone
>>who didn't know any better.
>
>As long as you keep it on the threads, and off the ring, where's the harm?
Or gain? If a compression fitting leaks, sealant on the threads won't
do a thing to help contain the leak.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
On Jul 7, 10:15=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of fitti=
ngs
> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for th=
ese
> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wonderin=
g
> what others have done?
>
> Thanks.
Oh yeah...teflon tape definately...actually makes tightening them a
bit smoother, also helps makes the connection air tight.
On Jul 7, 9:42=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Upscale" wrote:
> > I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of
> > fittings
> > ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape
> > for these
> > fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass?
>
> If you are referring to teflon tape, avoid it like the plague.
>
> You want teflon paste.
>
> Yes, you want to seal the thread connections.
Any difference between plumber's dope and gasline dope?
On Jul 13, 11:37=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Holy Crap!
> > 72 Posts on Plumber's Tape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > You guys are life-deficient.
>
> But, but, but.... I got to dream of women draped out in Teflon tape.
>
> That's a life isn't it?
Good troll for a non-political question. :-)
Luigi
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 21:15:08 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Do I need plumber's tape for these
>fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
>what others have done?
Contrary to Lew's experience, I get better results wrt leakfree joints
using the tape than I do with the paste. YMMV, but some sort of
sealant should be used.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
On Jul 14, 3:38=A0pm, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
>
> > We did pretty well with a 'summer dresses' thread-jack
> > once.........those were the days.
> > Summer dresses are wonderful... unless it's on that bitch Ann Coulter,
> > then anything looks like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
>
> I don't agree. I think Coulter's pretty good looking (being rich is a plu=
s).
> And Sarah Palin. In fact, all the conservative women you see on TV are
> pretty foxy - even Michelle Malkin.
>
> Conversely....
What, you don't think Nancy Pelosi is Hot? How about Whoopie
Goldberg, Rosie O'Donnel, and Joy Behar?
"Upscale" <[email protected]> writes:
>I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of fittings
>~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for these
>fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
>what others have done?
>
>Thanks.
>
Ah, you mean Teflon tape. Plumbers tape (for us old farts) refers to
the metal strapping used to hang pipe.
Teflon tape or dope never hurts (well, for NatGas, use tape/dope designed
for the purpose (yellow tape)).
scott
"charlie" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Do you know if the yellow version tape will do double duty on regular
>> plumbing fixtures? ~ not a money thing, just a convenience if it will
>> work.
>>
>yes
>
>
IIRC, the purpose of the tape is to force the threads together more
tightly.
scott
dpb <[email protected]> writes:
>Scott Lurndal wrote:
>...
>
>> IIRC, the purpose of the tape is to force the threads together more
>> tightly.
>
>How would possibly physically do that being so soft as compared to metal?
>
>What it does is simply fill voids as does pipe dope in a more convenient
>form factor...
>
>--
Memory confirmed by Wikipedia:
One of the defining characteristics of PTFE is how good it is at defeating friction.
The use of PTFE tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function,
which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation,
which is what creates the majority, if not all, of the seal.
scott
"Leon" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> I use the "gas" rated Teflon tape. It is thicker and easier to deal
>>> with,
>>> and it is identified by it's yellow color.
>>
>> Ok, that's enough information for me. I've used Teflon tape on plumbing
>> joints before, so I'll pick up some of the yellow version. Just for
>> interest's sake, I bought the Dewalt D55141 compressor you told me about.
>> Haven't run it yet because I was waiting for an order of hose and fittings
>> to come in which just did. I'll pick up the tape this weekend and let you
>> know how loud this 85db compressor sounds compared to the old one that I'm
>> giving to a friend.
>>
>> Do you know if the yellow version tape will do double duty on regular
>> plumbing fixtures? ~ not a money thing, just a convenience if it will
>> work.
>
>
>Yes, it works on regular plumbing, it is thicker and takes less.
>
Found this on-line:
TEFLON TAPE:
When PTFE (Teflon) tape first became available they only made it in the
common single density type, which we commonly find in the hardware and home
supply stores. Later they began making a double density version, which was twice
as thick. Many state and local codes then adopted the double density type as
mandatory when making connections for natural gas however since both products
were the same color (white) it was difficult for inspectors to be sure which
product had been used. PTFE tape is now made in numerous varieties and they have
issued a color standard to determine which type should be used.
WHITE-Single density- should only be used on NPT threads up to 3/8 inch.
YELLOW- Double Density- yellow double density is often labeled as "Gas type"
RED-Triple Density: (Note-the container is red but the tape itself appears as a pale pink color). Presently required on all joints ½" diameter or greater.
GREEN- Oil Free PTFE tape- Required for use on all lines conveying oxygen (I.E. medical oxygen or welding oxygen lines).
COPPER COLOR- contains granules of copper and is to be used as a thread lubricant but is
not approved as a thread sealant. (Generally it is used as a thread lubricant on bolts
or pipe threads for mechanical applications where no physical seal is required.)
PTFE tape is only approved as a thread seal when applied correctly. To apply you begin at
the end of the pipe and wrap the tape under tension in the direction of the thread turns.
Each successive layer should overlap the previous layer by ½ to 2/3 and continue wrapping
until the entire threaded portion of the pipe is covered. (Minimum of 3 full turns).
TFE can become tiny parts. It will clog gas gets and
kill those inside.
Thus the hot water heater if gas - use plumbing gunk to lock it up.
Plasma torches and the like have small holes - as do paint guns
and the like.
Martin
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Tom Veatch" wrote:
>
>> I certainly can't fault your advice other than to mention that
>> combustion plumbing is a little outside the scope of the OP's
>> question. Which, if I read correctly, involves plumbing for
>> compressed
>> air.
>
> A mater of standardization.
>
> If you are going to need Teflon paste for some possible applications,
> why not use it for all?
>
> Can't be cost, a bottle of Teflon paste is only a couple of bucks.
>
> And unless you are a pipe fitter or a plumber, a small bottle is
> probably a multi year supply.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ok, I picked up a roll of the yellow tape today, but reading the
>instructions on the back a little more closely, I'm not sure if I should use
>it or if it's usable for my 150 psi compressor.
>
>Here's what I got:
>
>It's certainly yellow. The front description states "Gasline thread seal
>tape".
>On the back in finer print it states "Do not use on flared threads".
>And then the following blurb:
>"Got use in assemblies handling gasoline, petroleum oils, propane, butane
>and natural gas not exceeding 100 psig".
>
>I'm guessing that 100 psig is gallons volume,
It's a pressure measurement. "psig" = "pounds per square inch guage" as
opposed to pounds per square inch absolute. To illustrate the difference,
which is of interest only to scientists, normal atmospheric pressure is 14.7
psi absolute, at which pressure a guage will read zero. For practical
purposes, "psi" and "psig" are freely interchangeable.
>so I'm not so concerned there,
>but the threads on the brass fittings *are* flared which to me means that
>the circumference gets gradually larger on the male part of the fittings.
That would be a tapered thread. Gas-line pipe (black steel) uses tapered
threads, which actually slightly expand the fitting when the pipe is seated
properly, making a very tight seal. (If you've ever heard that gas-line
fittings should not be reused after a joint is disassembled, that's why.)
Are you sure it says "flared" and not "flare"? I could understand the latter,
in reference to flare fittings (which are used on gas-line *tubing*), but not
the former.
> I
>guess I'll use it anyway since the only realistic problem I might get if
>there is one is the hiss of a little air.
Go ahead and use it. The warnings are all about avoiding any leaks of
dangerous substances such as "gasoline, petroleum oils, ... natural gas".
As you've already realized, since you're only using it for air, even if it
does leak that presents no danger.
On Jul 11, 12:04=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > IOW, for your applications, you can tuck your roll of tape under your
> > pillow and sleep tight tonight.
>
> Thanks Lew. I'll dream tonight of fairy princesses all draped out in yell=
ow
> Teflon tape. =A0:)
Uma is going to be pissed!
On Jul 8, 10:31=A0am, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2009-07-08, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > For starters, it is messy compared to Teflon tape. =A0IIRC it stays mes=
sy and
> > does not completely dry.
>
> .....which means it's easily removed with a wire brush. =A0The same can't=
be
> said of tape.
Tape is easily removed, usually, without a wire brush. Just unwrap
it.
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:00:54 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of fittings
>>~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for these
>>fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
>>what others have done?
>
>Well, you need *some* kind of pipe dope in there, if you think you'll ever
>want to take the joint apart a few years down the road. Some folks will tell
>you never to use teflon tape with compressed air, but I've never had a
>problem. Just make sure you apply the tape to the male threads only, and keep
>it on the threads -- don't get any into the air passages.
I use teflon tape, double wrapped in a clockwise direction and do not
cover the entry thread. Carefully used, the tape will take up the
slop in the threads and provide a better seal, while not allowing the
metal to metal joint to seize.
I don't have my Machinery's Handbook in front of me but, if you refer
to it, you will find that there are a number of interference fit
thread engagement tolerances and what we too often get in offshore
fittings is a slop tolerance that is really more than it should be.
Pipe dope comes in flavors (caustic, pneumatic, hydraulic, etc) and I
think there is more chance for contamination because the wet surface
can attract gunk in what is often a dusty environment - and because
I'm more capable of keeping the entry thread clean with the tape.
Regards,
Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> FWIW, there is tape that is code for gas piping. It's a bit heavier than
> that used for water piping, presumably to address the breaking free and
> plugging orifices issue.
That tape is yellow colored.
On Jul 14, 11:59=A0am, jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > On Jul 14, 2:17 am, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Jul 13, 11:37 pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>> "RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>> Holy Crap!
> >>>> 72 Posts on Plumber's Tape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >>>> You guys are life-deficient.
> >>> But, but, but.... I got to dream of women draped out in Teflon tape.
> >>> That's a life isn't it?
> >> Good troll for a non-political question. :-)
>
> >> Luigi
>
> > We did pretty well with a 'summer dresses' thread-jack
> > once.........those were the days.
> > Summer dresses are wonderful... unless it's on that bitch Ann Coulter,
> > then anything looks like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
>
> And then there was Robin's butt (Hartl not Lee). =A0The stuff of wet
> dreams, that.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 8-O
Last wet dream I had, I dreamt that there was a hole in the eaves-
trough , and that my window was open, and that the wind was blowing
rainwater into the bedroom...
.
.
.
.
I used to like wet dreams.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> This time they're all copper as recommended.
Correction, should have said brass.
"Robatoy" wrote:
------------------------------------------------
On the humpability scale, Palin ranks quite a bit higher than that
scarecrow Coulter. Still not as high as Bebe Neuwirth though.
-------------------------------------------------
Take your pick, but one way or another, a gag must be standard issue.
Lew
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Veatch <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:24:12 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, Tom Veatch
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>Or gain? If a compression fitting leaks, sealant on the threads won't
>>>do a thing to help contain the leak.
>>
>>Teflon tape isn't worth a toot as a sealant anyway, but it's a dandy
>>lubricant.
>
>Or gain? If a compression fitting leaks, "lubricant" on the threads
>won't do a thing to help contain the leak.
I didn't say that it would.
>
>In fact, since a compression fitting can be overtightened, with
>adverse effects, lubricant on the threads may be contra-indicated.
>I've never encountered a compression fitting (or a flare fitting, for
>that matter) where sealed or lubricated threads would be any benefit
>either in assembly or disassembly.
You've evidently not had the pleasant experience of ever having to open
ten-year-old flare fittings on a propane line in a basement with a
dirt-and-cinder floor. Humidity + cinders = slightly acid environment =
corrosion; I believe that the job would have been a bit easier, had the
threads been doped when they were put together. Yes, I realize those aren't
the same as compression fittings, but the point is that brass *can* corrode,
and if it does, it *can* be much harder to disassemble than one would wish.
Doping the threads before assembly avoids that problem.
>Here, I assume we are talking about compression fittings
>(http://www.plumbingsupply.com/compress.html) not tapered pipe threads
>which seal by interference fit (compression) between the male and
>female threads. Another post in this thread seems to blur the
>distinction between those two categories.
My assumption also.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Upscale" wrote:
>
>> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of
>> fittings
>> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape
>> for these
>> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass?
>
> If you are referring to teflon tape, avoid it like the plague.
>
> You want teflon paste.
>
> Yes, you want to seal the thread connections.
>
> Lew
I've successfully used teflon tape on a gazillion brass, plated-brass and
steel compressed gas fittings, from a couple of hundred psi all the way up
to several thousand. It can cause problems when it is improperly applied,
e.g. bits of it are carried into the system. But anything can cause
problems when it is improperly applied. I wouldn't hesitate to use teflon
tape on compressor fittings.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I use the "gas" rated Teflon tape. It is thicker and easier to deal
>> with,
>> and it is identified by it's yellow color.
>
> Ok, that's enough information for me. I've used Teflon tape on plumbing
> joints before, so I'll pick up some of the yellow version. Just for
> interest's sake, I bought the Dewalt D55141 compressor you told me about.
> Haven't run it yet because I was waiting for an order of hose and fittings
> to come in which just did. I'll pick up the tape this weekend and let you
> know how loud this 85db compressor sounds compared to the old one that I'm
> giving to a friend.
What did you use on the old one?
>
> Do you know if the yellow version tape will do double duty on regular
> plumbing fixtures? ~ not a money thing, just a convenience if it will
> work.
>
>
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:MR%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Jack Stein
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>Anyway, if one is using a compression fitting, pipe dope or tape is not
>>needed, and may in fact be detrimental to the connection. I have seen
>>compression fittings where pipe dope was used on the joint by someone
>>who didn't know any better.
>
> As long as you keep it on the threads, and off the ring, where's the harm?
Typically compression fittings are brass which are self lubricating and the
threads do not provide any seal.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tom Veatch" wrote:
>
>> I certainly can't fault your advice other than to mention that
>> combustion plumbing is a little outside the scope of the OP's
>> question. Which, if I read correctly, involves plumbing for compressed
>> air.
>
> A mater of standardization.
>
> If you are going to need Teflon paste for some possible applications, why
> not use it for all?
For starters, it is messy compared to Teflon tape. IIRC it stays messy and
does not completely dry.
On 2009-07-11, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Father Haskell" wrote:
>
>>Any difference between plumber's dope and gasline dope?
>
> These days Teflon paste serves both applications.
I don't think you can get high huffing PTFE. ;)
nb
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Veatch <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:47:32 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, Jack Stein
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Doug Miller wrote:
>....
>>>Anyway, if one is using a compression fitting, pipe dope or tape is not
>>>needed, and may in fact be detrimental to the connection. I have seen
>>>compression fittings where pipe dope was used on the joint by someone
>>>who didn't know any better.
>>
>>As long as you keep it on the threads, and off the ring, where's the harm?
>
>Or gain? If a compression fitting leaks, sealant on the threads won't
>do a thing to help contain the leak.
Teflon tape isn't worth a toot as a sealant anyway, but it's a dandy
lubricant.
Somebody wrote:
>I don't see any need for tape or dope on compression fittings.
Compression fittings require a metal to metal fit to work properly,
thus tape or dope defeats the purpose except on the threaded portion
of the fitting.
That said, compression fittings are a poor choice where high flow
rates may be required.
Lew
.
On Jul 14, 11:53=A0am, Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:24:37 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
>
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Jul 14, 2:17=A0am, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Jul 13, 11:37=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> > "RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > > Holy Crap!
> >> > > 72 Posts on Plumber's Tape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >> > > You guys are life-deficient.
>
> >> > But, but, but.... I got to dream of women draped out in Teflon tape.
>
> >> > That's a life isn't it?
>
> >> Good troll for a non-political question. :-)
>
> >> Luigi
>
> >We did pretty well with a 'summer dresses' thread-jack
> >once.........those were the days.
> >Summer dresses are wonderful... unless it's on that bitch Ann Coulter,
> >then anything looks like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
>
> u be dissin' blANNd cOOter?
>
> dincha never think 'bout bumpin' uglies wif a 10 speed bike?
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Watsonhttp://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
I need some mind- and eye bleach after accidentally having seen an
image of Cooter.
http://tinyurl.com/mx8hag
SUMMER DRESSES RULE!!!
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:24:37 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Jul 14, 2:17 am, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Jul 13, 11:37 pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > "RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > > Holy Crap!
>> > > 72 Posts on Plumber's Tape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> > > You guys are life-deficient.
>>
>> > But, but, but.... I got to dream of women draped out in Teflon tape.
>>
>> > That's a life isn't it?
>>
>> Good troll for a non-political question. :-)
>>
>> Luigi
>
>We did pretty well with a 'summer dresses' thread-jack
>once.........those were the days.
>Summer dresses are wonderful... unless it's on that bitch Ann Coulter,
>then anything looks like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
u be dissin' blANNd cOOter?
dincha never think 'bout bumpin' uglies wif a 10 speed bike?
Regards,
Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
In article <[email protected]>, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>> The joint won't seal unless it's tight, and the tape or dope reduces
> friction,
>>>> making it easier to get the joint tight. And it's pretty much mandatory for
>
>>>> anything that might be disassembled later.
>
>>> I don't agree, brass compression fittings can easily be overtightened,
>>> and dope/tape could facilitate that. Also, tape/dope could contaminate
>>> the compression fitting resulting in leakage. Other than that, using
>>> dope/tape on a brass compression fitting is pretty much meaningless. If
>>> the oval ring in a compression fitting leaks, all the pipe dope or tape
>>> in the world will not help it, and a new ring/fitting is needed.
>
>> Where have you seen air lines with compression rings in the fittings?
>
>About 30 feet from where I'm sitting? Are you suggesting compression
>fittings are not used in air lines? I'm pretty certain I'm not the only
>one to use a compression fitting on an air, or a gas line.
Not suggesting they're not used, just suggesting they're not common.
>
>Anyway, if one is using a compression fitting, pipe dope or tape is not
>needed, and may in fact be detrimental to the connection. I have seen
>compression fittings where pipe dope was used on the joint by someone
>who didn't know any better.
As long as you keep it on the threads, and off the ring, where's the harm?
In article <[email protected]>, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>> Upscale wrote:
>>>> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of
> fittings
>>>> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for
> these
>>>> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
>>>> what others have done?
>
> > Jack Stein wrote:
>>> I don't see any need for tape or dope on compression fittings.
>
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> Compressed air fittings are not the same as compression fittings.
>
>Brass compression fittings certainly are common compressed air fittings?
??
>
>>> Non-compression fittings need tape or dope regardless of what they are
>>> made of?
>
>> Tape or dope should be used for all fittings for ease of proper assembly.
>
>Nope. Tape or dope is not needed at all for brass compression fittings
>commonly used in air lines, water lines etc.
Compression fittings are not at all common on air lines in my (admittedly
limited) experience.
>
>The joint won't seal unless it's tight, and the tape or dope reduces friction,
>> making it easier to get the joint tight. And it's pretty much mandatory for
>> anything that might be disassembled later.
>
>I don't agree, brass compression fittings can easily be overtightened,
>and dope/tape could facilitate that. Also, tape/dope could contaminate
>the compression fitting resulting in leakage. Other than that, using
>dope/tape on a brass compression fitting is pretty much meaningless. If
>the oval ring in a compression fitting leaks, all the pipe dope or tape
>in the world will not help it, and a new ring/fitting is needed.
Where have you seen air lines with compression rings in the fittings?
>
>Tape/Dope should always be used on non-compression fitting, for the
>reasons you site. The original poster said only brass to brass, and
>didn't specify compression or non compression fittings.
>
In article <[email protected]>, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>>> As long as you keep it on the threads, and off the ring, where's the harm?
>>> No harm other than a waste of time. Brass compression fittings simply
>>> don't need dope on the threads. You could put pipe dope along the
>>> entire length of pipe and do no harm, but it begs the question, why?
>>
>> As I've said several times before, taping or doping threads makes the joints
>> easier to disassemble. There's no point at all, obviously, in putting it
> along
>> the entire length of the pipe. But then, you're the only one who's suggested
>> doing that. <g>
>
>I said you "could" do it, and "suggested" it would have the same value
>as doping the threads in a brass compression fitting. I never suggested
>one should do it. I understand pipe dope might make a threaded
>steel/iron joint easier to loosen, but not in brass, brass doesn't rust,
Of course it doesn't rust -- but it *does* corrode in the presence of weak
acids, or salts.
>doesn't need pipe dope to make it easier to disassemble.
Evidently you've never had the experience of trying to disassemble a corroded
joint in brass...
In article <[email protected]>, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>>> Where have you seen air lines with compression rings in the fittings?
>
>>> About 30 feet from where I'm sitting? Are you suggesting compression
>>> fittings are not used in air lines? I'm pretty certain I'm not the only
>>> one to use a compression fitting on an air, or a gas line.
>
>> Not suggesting they're not used, just suggesting they're not common.
>
>I guess we could argue common, not common all day and get no where. I
>would guess it depends on what you are connecting together. Sometimes a
>compression fitting is common, sometimes not. Air lines commonly have
>flexible copper tubing for example and it is very common to use brass
>compression fittings where they connect to standard pipe. You would use
>pipe dope on the pipe thread, but not on the compression fitting.
Most of the air lines I've seen are black steel. YMMV.
>
>>> Anyway, if one is using a compression fitting, pipe dope or tape is not
>>> needed, and may in fact be detrimental to the connection. I have seen
>>> compression fittings where pipe dope was used on the joint by someone
>>> who didn't know any better.
>
>> As long as you keep it on the threads, and off the ring, where's the harm?
>
>No harm other than a waste of time. Brass compression fittings simply
>don't need dope on the threads. You could put pipe dope along the
>entire length of pipe and do no harm, but it begs the question, why?
As I've said several times before, taping or doping threads makes the joints
easier to disassemble. There's no point at all, obviously, in putting it along
the entire length of the pipe. But then, you're the only one who's suggested
doing that. <g>
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of
> fittings
> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for
> these
> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
> what others have done?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
I use the "gas" rated Teflon tape. It is thicker and easier to deal with,
and it is identified by it's yellow color.
In article <[email protected]>, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>
>>>> That said, compression fittings are a poor choice where high flow
>>>> rates may be required.
>
>>> I never heard this before, and not sure I understand why? Not saying
>>> it's incorrect, just that I don't get it? They don't appear to restrict
>>> flow at all?
>
>> Actually, they do. Take apart a compression joint in copper tube and take a
>> look.
>
>I happen to have a hunk of 3/8 copper tubing with a compression fitting
>in my junk pile, which you made be go down and look at... couldn't see
>any notable issues that would preclude it's usage in a high flow
>situation, other than it was 3/8" in pipe. I guess there might be some
>negligible constriction which is difficult to see and might be important
>in super small pipe,
One man's negligible is another man's noticeable, I suppose...
>but in normal home air systems in this discussion,
>a very non-issue.
>
>>> Compression fittings are used in high pressure conditions, which I guess
>>> would infer high flow rates?
>
>> Pressure and flow rate are completely different. Pressure is the force moving
>> a fluid (air, in this case) from one place to another; flow rate is the amount
>> of fluid moving per unit time.
>
>I tend to think that the amount of air that would flow through a 3/8"
>pipe under 1000 lbs of pressure is more than would flow through the same
>pipe with 2 lbs of pressure? Is that wrong? I know volume and pressure
>are two different things, but I'd think one effects the other?
No, you're not wrong, and indeed the pressure does affect the flow rate -- but
flow rate is also determined by the size of the pipe. You're going to get a
higher flow rate through a one-foot diameter pipe at 2psi than you will
through a 3/8"-diameter pipe at 1000psi.
>
>Most easily illustrated by example:
>> Low pressure, low flow rate -- the water in your rain gutters.
>> High pressure, low flow rate -- a mountain stream.
>
>See, right there I don't get it? In my mind, to get high pressure you
>need to restrict the flow.
That's not correct.
> I don't see a mountain stream or a river as
>high pressure?
Steeper gradient = higher force (due to gravity).
> I admit I know next to nothing about fluid dynamics, but
>thats my point... For example, if I have a high pressure hose, and put
>a hole in the hose, the water will shoot out the hole into the air, and
>the more pressure, the higher it will go. The mountain stream is not
>shooting up in the air, just flowing... low pressure, high volume. My
>mind says the only way to get high pressure in a mountain stream is to
>force in through a pipe of some sort.
I should have made it more clear that I meant that as an analogy to try to
make the point. I did not mean that the mountain stream is literally under
higher pressure.
> I do realize that the deeper the
>stream, the higher the pressure at the bottom of the stream from the
>weight of the water.
>
>>> Now that I think about it, for Doug, the disconnects at the end of your
>>> air hose are compression fittings. Not particularly the type we are
>>> discussing but thought I'd throw that in.
>
>> Obviously a very different type from what we're discussing.
>
>Well, if you think about it, the main difference is a spring holds the
>compression fitting together instead of threads. Pipe dope is not
>needed anymore there than on a standard brass compression fitting.
Except that you won't be unscrewing one of those. Threaded fittings *are* from
time to time unscrewed, and doping them on assembly makes disassembly easier.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > YELLOW- Double Density- yellow double density is often labeled as "Gas
> > type"
Ok, I picked up a roll of the yellow tape today, but reading the
instructions on the back a little more closely, I'm not sure if I should use
it or if it's usable for my 150 psi compressor.
Here's what I got:
It's certainly yellow. The front description states "Gasline thread seal
tape".
On the back in finer print it states "Do not use on flared threads".
And then the following blurb:
"Got use in assemblies handling gasoline, petroleum oils, propane, butane
and natural gas not exceeding 100 psig".
I'm guessing that 100 psig is gallons volume, so I'm not so concerned there,
but the threads on the brass fittings *are* flared which to me means that
the circumference gets gradually larger on the male part of the fittings. I
guess I'll use it anyway since the only realistic problem I might get if
there is one is the hiss of a little air.
Thanks
"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Found this on-line:
>
> TEFLON TAPE:
>
> When PTFE (Teflon) tape first became available they only made it in the
> common single density type, which we commonly find in the hardware and
> home
> supply stores. Later they began making a double density version, which was
> twice
> as thick. Many state and local codes then adopted the double density type
> as
> mandatory when making connections for natural gas however since both
> products
> were the same color (white) it was difficult for inspectors to be sure
> which
> product had been used. PTFE tape is now made in numerous varieties and
> they have
> issued a color standard to determine which type should be used.
>
> WHITE-Single density- should only be used on NPT threads up to 3/8 inch.
Actually I have found the White in at least 2 densitys. I have seen some
that is so thin that it is difficult to work with, like plastic wrap used
for food storage. I now buy Yellow so that I do not have to wonder if I am
getting the thicker easier to manage White tape or the very thin stuff. The
thin Teflon tape is usually packaged with products like new water faucets.
> YELLOW- Double Density- yellow double density is often labeled as "Gas
> type"
> RED-Triple Density: (Note-the container is red but the tape itself appears
> as a pale pink color). Presently required on all joints ½" diameter or
> greater.
> GREEN- Oil Free PTFE tape- Required for use on all lines conveying oxygen
> (I.E. medical oxygen or welding oxygen lines).
> COPPER COLOR- contains granules of copper and is to be used as a thread
> lubricant but is
> not approved as a thread sealant. (Generally it is used as a thread
> lubricant on bolts
> or pipe threads for mechanical applications where no physical seal is
> required.)
>
> PTFE tape is only approved as a thread seal when applied correctly. To
> apply you begin at
> the end of the pipe and wrap the tape under tension in the direction of
> the thread turns.
> Each successive layer should overlap the previous layer by ½ to 2/3 and
> continue wrapping
> until the entire threaded portion of the pipe is covered. (Minimum of 3
> full turns).
On 08 Jul 2009 20:49:42 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
>dpb <[email protected]> writes:
>>Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>...
>>
>>> IIRC, the purpose of the tape is to force the threads together more
>>> tightly.
>>
>>How would possibly physically do that being so soft as compared to metal?
>>
>>What it does is simply fill voids as does pipe dope in a more convenient
>>form factor...
>>
>>--
>
>Memory confirmed by Wikipedia:
>
>One of the defining characteristics of PTFE is how good it is at defeating friction.
>The use of PTFE tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function,
>which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation,
>which is what creates the majority, if not all, of the seal.
>
>scott
If you are depending on PTFE to fill voids to prevent leaks you are
likely to be dissapointed. PTFE is PRIMARILY a lubricant.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I use the "gas" rated Teflon tape. It is thicker and easier to deal with,
> and it is identified by it's yellow color.
Ok, that's enough information for me. I've used Teflon tape on plumbing
joints before, so I'll pick up some of the yellow version. Just for
interest's sake, I bought the Dewalt D55141 compressor you told me about.
Haven't run it yet because I was waiting for an order of hose and fittings
to come in which just did. I'll pick up the tape this weekend and let you
know how loud this 85db compressor sounds compared to the old one that I'm
giving to a friend.
Do you know if the yellow version tape will do double duty on regular
plumbing fixtures? ~ not a money thing, just a convenience if it will work.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "LD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > know how loud this 85db compressor sounds compared to the old one that
> I'm
>> > giving to a friend.
>>
>> What did you use on the old one?
>
> Nothing. Didn't occur to me when I bought it some ten years ago. And yes,
> there was a small, discernable hiss right at the point of air exiting
> whatever male adapter I had inserted. Also, all the adapters appeared to
> be
> some type of silver coloured alloy. This time they're all copper as
> recommended.
>
>
FWIW, the compressor manufacturers say teflon tape. IIRC, Cambell Hausefeld
includes a roll.
"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Holy Crap!
> 72 Posts on Plumber's Tape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> You guys are life-deficient.
But, but, but.... I got to dream of women draped out in Teflon tape.
That's a life isn't it?
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> IOW, for your applications, you can tuck your roll of tape under your
> pillow and sleep tight tonight.
Thanks Lew. I'll dream tonight of fairy princesses all draped out in yellow
Teflon tape. :)
"LD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > know how loud this 85db compressor sounds compared to the old one that
I'm
> > giving to a friend.
>
> What did you use on the old one?
Nothing. Didn't occur to me when I bought it some ten years ago. And yes,
there was a small, discernable hiss right at the point of air exiting
whatever male adapter I had inserted. Also, all the adapters appeared to be
some type of silver coloured alloy. This time they're all copper as
recommended.
On Jul 14, 12:01=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> We did pretty well with a 'summer dresses' thread-jack
> once.........those were the days.
> Summer dresses are wonderful... unless it's on that bitch Ann Coulter,
> then anything looks like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Look out, Palin's back.
>
> So youl have another pillowcase full of doorknobs to join Coulter
>
> Lew
> .
On the humpability scale, Palin ranks quite a bit higher than that
scarecrow Coulter. Still not as high as Bebe Neuwirth though.
"Upscale" wrote:
> Ok, I picked up a roll of the yellow tape today, but reading the
> instructions on the back a little more closely, I'm not sure if I
> should use
> it or if it's usable for my 150 psi compressor.
>
> Here's what I got:
>
> It's certainly yellow. The front description states "Gasline thread
> seal
> tape".
> On the back in finer print it states "Do not use on flared threads".
> And then the following blurb:
> "Got use in assemblies handling gasoline, petroleum oils, propane,
> butane
> and natural gas not exceeding 100 psig".
>
> I'm guessing that 100 psig is gallons volume, so I'm not so
> concerned there,
> but the threads on the brass fittings *are* flared which to me means
> that
> the circumference gets gradually larger on the male part of the
> fittings. I
> guess I'll use it anyway since the only realistic problem I might
> get if
> there is one is the hiss of a little air.
======================================
You are confusing oranges and apples.
In the USA, pipe threads are NPT (National pipe thread) which are
tapered 1-1/2"/12".
For comparison, the Brits use BSP or straight (non tapered) pipe
threads.
PSIG = Pounds per square inch gauge
Has nothing to do with volume, describes pressure..
"Flare" fittings involve flaring the copper tubing (usually 37-1/2
degrees) to provide a metal to metal seal which won't work if there is
Teflon tape in the middle.
The 100 PSIG limit is to advise you not use Teflon tape on high
pressure storage vessels.
IOW, for your applications, you can tuck your roll of tape under your
pillow and sleep tight tonight.
Lew
On Jul 8, 3:03=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
> > "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> In article <[email protected]>, "Upscale"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of
> >>> fittings
> >>> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape fo=
r
> >>> these
> >>> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wond=
ering
> >>> what others have done?
> >> Well, you need *some* kind of pipe dope in there, if you think you'll =
ever
> >> want to take the joint apart a few years down the road. Some folks wil=
l
> >> tell
> >> you never to use teflon tape with compressed air, but I've never had a
> >> problem. Just make sure you apply the tape to the male threads only, a=
nd
> >> keep
> >> it on the threads -- don't get any into the air passages.
>
> > Just curious, have you seen any one apply tape to the female threads???
>
> I think I've got a tool for that from HF.
It's called a "male pipe thread".
In article <[email protected]>, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Somebody wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see any need for tape or dope on compression fittings.
>>
>> Compression fittings require a metal to metal fit to work properly,
>> thus tape or dope defeats the purpose except on the threaded portion
>> of the fitting.
>
>But, on the brass threaded portion the tape/dope is not needed, and
>probably should be avoided.
>
>> That said, compression fittings are a poor choice where high flow
>> rates may be required.
>
>I never heard this before, and not sure I understand why? Not saying
>it's incorrect, just that I don't get it? They don't appear to restrict
>flow at all?
Actually, they do. Take apart a compression joint in copper tube and take a
look.
>
>Compression fittings are used in high pressure conditions, which I guess
>would infer high flow rates?
Pressure and flow rate are completely different. Pressure is the force moving
a fluid (air, in this case) from one place to another; flow rate is the amount
of fluid moving per unit time. Most easily illustrated by example:
Low pressure, low flow rate -- the water in your rain gutters.
High pressure, low flow rate -- a mountain stream.
Low pressure, high flow rate -- the Mississippi.
High pressure, high flow rate -- Niagara Falls.
>
>Now that I think about it, for Doug, the disconnects at the end of your
>air hose are compression fittings. Not particularly the type we are
>discussing but thought I'd throw that in.
Obviously a very different type from what we're discussing.
> > "RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > Holy Crap!
> > > 72 Posts on Plumber's Tape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > You guys are life-deficient.
THERE NOW!!!
At least I steered you guys in a more productive direction.
Plumbers Tape...............Jeeeeeessschh!
RonB
On Jul 14, 5:26=A0pm, Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:38:35 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Robatoy wrote:
>
> >> We did pretty well with a 'summer dresses' thread-jack
> >> once.........those were the days.
> >> Summer dresses are wonderful... unless it's on that bitch Ann Coulter,
> >> then anything looks like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
>
> >I don't agree. I think Coulter's pretty good looking
>
> Man, you must be god's gift to ugly women.
>
> Cooter'd be skanky even in Brail.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Watsonhttp://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
In Braille, I would come to a dead stop the second I hit that adams
apple. Besides that, Cooter has 2 elbows per arm.
She's a freak! (Mentally as well.) (Politically, she's the same as
Glen Beck and Rush Limburger... saying all kinds of 'controversial/
stupid shit to attract those who are open to that banter... like the
hungry/lost/leaderless conservatives.... so she can sell books.)
She's a douchebag and I apologize to all the other douchebags out
there.
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:38:35 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Robatoy wrote:
>>
>> We did pretty well with a 'summer dresses' thread-jack
>> once.........those were the days.
>> Summer dresses are wonderful... unless it's on that bitch Ann Coulter,
>> then anything looks like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
>
>I don't agree. I think Coulter's pretty good looking
Man, you must be god's gift to ugly women.
Cooter'd be skanky even in Brail.
Regards,
Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Robatoy wrote:
> On Jul 14, 2:17 am, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Jul 13, 11:37 pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> "RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> Holy Crap!
>>>> 72 Posts on Plumber's Tape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>> You guys are life-deficient.
>>> But, but, but.... I got to dream of women draped out in Teflon tape.
>>> That's a life isn't it?
>> Good troll for a non-political question. :-)
>>
>> Luigi
>
> We did pretty well with a 'summer dresses' thread-jack
> once.........those were the days.
> Summer dresses are wonderful... unless it's on that bitch Ann Coulter,
> then anything looks like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
And then there was Robin's butt (Hartl not Lee). The stuff of wet
dreams, that.
8-O
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Tom Veatch" wrote:
>
>> Contrary to Lew's experience, I get better results wrt leakfree
>> joints
>> using the tape than I do with the paste. YMMV, but some sort of
>> sealant should be used.
>
>
> You NEVER want to use Teflon tape on combustion plumbing.
>
> Sooner or later, bits of the tape will break free and end up plugging
> the combustion orifices.
>
> A principle of mine was paid in excess of $10,000 for a service call
> to a refinery for a piece of combustion equipment they had sold that
> the refinery installed.
>
> Emergency travel, weekend service rates, car rentals, etc, etc, all to
> discover a plugged orifice from Teflon tape.
>
> It was rookie mistake by a refinery worker.
>
> Less than 15 minutes to solve the problem, but still had a $10,000
> invoice to pay.
FWIW, there is tape that is code for gas piping. It's a bit heavier than
that used for water piping, presumably to address the breaking free and
plugging orifices issue.
>
> Lew
Upscale wrote:
> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of fittings
> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for these
> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
> what others have done?
I don't see any need for tape or dope on compression fittings.
Non-compression fittings need tape or dope regardless of what they are
made of?
I'm not a plumber though, but thats my take.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do you know if the yellow version tape will do double duty on regular
> plumbing fixtures? ~ not a money thing, just a convenience if it will
> work.
>
yes
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
> ...
>
>> IIRC, the purpose of the tape is to force the threads together more
>> tightly.
>
> How would possibly physically do that being so soft as compared to metal?
it acts to reduce friction, thus allowing more torque to be applied to the
joint, thus allowing it to be tighter.
> What it does is simply fill voids as does pipe dope in a more convenient
> form factor...
>
> --
it does that too.
charlie wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> IIRC, the purpose of the tape is to force the threads together more
>>> tightly.
>> How would possibly physically do that being so soft as compared to metal?
>
> it acts to reduce friction, thus allowing more torque to be applied to the
> joint, thus allowing it to be tighter.
That's certainly secondary unless old, rusty threads and still not the
actual design purpose...
>> What it does is simply fill voids as does pipe dope in a more convenient
>> form factor...
...
> it does that too.
That's the primary function and mode of operation...
--
>> Upscale wrote:
>>> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of fittings
>>> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for these
>>> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
>>> what others have done?
> Jack Stein wrote:
>> I don't see any need for tape or dope on compression fittings.
Doug Miller wrote:
> Compressed air fittings are not the same as compression fittings.
Brass compression fittings certainly are common compressed air fittings?
>> Non-compression fittings need tape or dope regardless of what they are
>> made of?
> Tape or dope should be used for all fittings for ease of proper assembly.
Nope. Tape or dope is not needed at all for brass compression fittings
commonly used in air lines, water lines etc.
The joint won't seal unless it's tight, and the tape or dope reduces
friction,
> making it easier to get the joint tight. And it's pretty much mandatory for
> anything that might be disassembled later.
I don't agree, brass compression fittings can easily be overtightened,
and dope/tape could facilitate that. Also, tape/dope could contaminate
the compression fitting resulting in leakage. Other than that, using
dope/tape on a brass compression fitting is pretty much meaningless. If
the oval ring in a compression fitting leaks, all the pipe dope or tape
in the world will not help it, and a new ring/fitting is needed.
Tape/Dope should always be used on non-compression fitting, for the
reasons you site. The original poster said only brass to brass, and
didn't specify compression or non compression fittings.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
Doug Miller wrote:
>> The joint won't seal unless it's tight, and the tape or dope reduces friction,
>>> making it easier to get the joint tight. And it's pretty much mandatory for
>>> anything that might be disassembled later.
>> I don't agree, brass compression fittings can easily be overtightened,
>> and dope/tape could facilitate that. Also, tape/dope could contaminate
>> the compression fitting resulting in leakage. Other than that, using
>> dope/tape on a brass compression fitting is pretty much meaningless. If
>> the oval ring in a compression fitting leaks, all the pipe dope or tape
>> in the world will not help it, and a new ring/fitting is needed.
> Where have you seen air lines with compression rings in the fittings?
About 30 feet from where I'm sitting? Are you suggesting compression
fittings are not used in air lines? I'm pretty certain I'm not the only
one to use a compression fitting on an air, or a gas line.
Anyway, if one is using a compression fitting, pipe dope or tape is not
needed, and may in fact be detrimental to the connection. I have seen
compression fittings where pipe dope was used on the joint by someone
who didn't know any better.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Somebody wrote:
>
>> I don't see any need for tape or dope on compression fittings.
>
> Compression fittings require a metal to metal fit to work properly,
> thus tape or dope defeats the purpose except on the threaded portion
> of the fitting.
But, on the brass threaded portion the tape/dope is not needed, and
probably should be avoided.
> That said, compression fittings are a poor choice where high flow
> rates may be required.
I never heard this before, and not sure I understand why? Not saying
it's incorrect, just that I don't get it? They don't appear to restrict
flow at all?
Compression fittings are used in high pressure conditions, which I guess
would infer high flow rates?
Now that I think about it, for Doug, the disconnects at the end of your
air hose are compression fittings. Not particularly the type we are
discussing but thought I'd throw that in.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
Doug Miller wrote:
>>> Where have you seen air lines with compression rings in the fittings?
>> About 30 feet from where I'm sitting? Are you suggesting compression
>> fittings are not used in air lines? I'm pretty certain I'm not the only
>> one to use a compression fitting on an air, or a gas line.
> Not suggesting they're not used, just suggesting they're not common.
I guess we could argue common, not common all day and get no where. I
would guess it depends on what you are connecting together. Sometimes a
compression fitting is common, sometimes not. Air lines commonly have
flexible copper tubing for example and it is very common to use brass
compression fittings where they connect to standard pipe. You would use
pipe dope on the pipe thread, but not on the compression fitting.
>> Anyway, if one is using a compression fitting, pipe dope or tape is not
>> needed, and may in fact be detrimental to the connection. I have seen
>> compression fittings where pipe dope was used on the joint by someone
>> who didn't know any better.
> As long as you keep it on the threads, and off the ring, where's the harm?
No harm other than a waste of time. Brass compression fittings simply
don't need dope on the threads. You could put pipe dope along the
entire length of pipe and do no harm, but it begs the question, why?
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
Doug Miller wrote:
>>> That said, compression fittings are a poor choice where high flow
>>> rates may be required.
>> I never heard this before, and not sure I understand why? Not saying
>> it's incorrect, just that I don't get it? They don't appear to restrict
>> flow at all?
> Actually, they do. Take apart a compression joint in copper tube and take a
> look.
I happen to have a hunk of 3/8 copper tubing with a compression fitting
in my junk pile, which you made be go down and look at... couldn't see
any notable issues that would preclude it's usage in a high flow
situation, other than it was 3/8" in pipe. I guess there might be some
negligible constriction which is difficult to see and might be important
in super small pipe, but in normal home air systems in this discussion,
a very non-issue.
>> Compression fittings are used in high pressure conditions, which I guess
>> would infer high flow rates?
> Pressure and flow rate are completely different. Pressure is the force moving
> a fluid (air, in this case) from one place to another; flow rate is the amount
> of fluid moving per unit time.
I tend to think that the amount of air that would flow through a 3/8"
pipe under 1000 lbs of pressure is more than would flow through the same
pipe with 2 lbs of pressure? Is that wrong? I know volume and pressure
are two different things, but I'd think one effects the other?
Most easily illustrated by example:
> Low pressure, low flow rate -- the water in your rain gutters.
> High pressure, low flow rate -- a mountain stream.
See, right there I don't get it? In my mind, to get high pressure you
need to restrict the flow. I don't see a mountain stream or a river as
high pressure? I admit I know next to nothing about fluid dynamics, but
thats my point... For example, if I have a high pressure hose, and put
a hole in the hose, the water will shoot out the hole into the air, and
the more pressure, the higher it will go. The mountain stream is not
shooting up in the air, just flowing... low pressure, high volume. My
mind says the only way to get high pressure in a mountain stream is to
force in through a pipe of some sort. I do realize that the deeper the
stream, the higher the pressure at the bottom of the stream from the
weight of the water.
>> Now that I think about it, for Doug, the disconnects at the end of your
>> air hose are compression fittings. Not particularly the type we are
>> discussing but thought I'd throw that in.
> Obviously a very different type from what we're discussing.
Well, if you think about it, the main difference is a spring holds the
compression fitting together instead of threads. Pipe dope is not
needed anymore there than on a standard brass compression fitting.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
Doug Miller wrote:
>>> As long as you keep it on the threads, and off the ring, where's the harm?
>> No harm other than a waste of time. Brass compression fittings simply
>> don't need dope on the threads. You could put pipe dope along the
>> entire length of pipe and do no harm, but it begs the question, why?
>
> As I've said several times before, taping or doping threads makes the joints
> easier to disassemble. There's no point at all, obviously, in putting it along
> the entire length of the pipe. But then, you're the only one who's suggested
> doing that. <g>
I said you "could" do it, and "suggested" it would have the same value
as doping the threads in a brass compression fitting. I never suggested
one should do it. I understand pipe dope might make a threaded
steel/iron joint easier to loosen, but not in brass, brass doesn't rust,
doesn't need pipe dope to make it easier to disassemble.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
"Tom Veatch" wrote:
> I certainly can't fault your advice other than to mention that
> combustion plumbing is a little outside the scope of the OP's
> question. Which, if I read correctly, involves plumbing for
> compressed
> air.
A mater of standardization.
If you are going to need Teflon paste for some possible applications,
why not use it for all?
Can't be cost, a bottle of Teflon paste is only a couple of bucks.
And unless you are a pipe fitter or a plumber, a small bottle is
probably a multi year supply.
Lew
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>
> LOL -- I meant, as opposed to getting it on any other parts of the male
> fitting. But I guess I didn't make that too clear, did I?
I got a kick out of that. I was picturing the process of pushing the tape
into the threads with out pulling it out. LOL
"Upscale" wrote:
> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of
> fittings
> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape
> for these
> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass?
If you are referring to teflon tape, avoid it like the plague.
You want teflon paste.
Yes, you want to seal the thread connections.
Lew
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Upscale"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of
>>fittings
>>~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for
>>these
>>fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
>>what others have done?
>
> Well, you need *some* kind of pipe dope in there, if you think you'll ever
> want to take the joint apart a few years down the road. Some folks will
> tell
> you never to use teflon tape with compressed air, but I've never had a
> problem. Just make sure you apply the tape to the male threads only, and
> keep
> it on the threads -- don't get any into the air passages.
Just curious, have you seen any one apply tape to the female threads???
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I always put a dab of dope in the female part, and wrap the male part
with tape STARTING at about the 2nd. or 3rd. thread back from the end.
Keeps the tape out of the system, and those first couple of threads
don't do much anyway on tapered pipe fittings.
Upscale wrote:
> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of fittings
> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for these
> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
> what others have done?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
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<font size="+1"><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">I always put a dab
of dope in the female part, and wrap the male part with tape STARTING
at about the 2nd. or 3rd. thread back from the end. Keeps the tape
out of the system, and those first couple of threads don't do much
anyway on tapered pipe fittings.</font></font><br>
<br>
Upscale wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:[email protected]"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of fittings
~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for these
fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
what others have done?
Thanks.
</pre>
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In article <[email protected]>, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of fittings
>~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for these
>fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
>what others have done?
Well, you need *some* kind of pipe dope in there, if you think you'll ever
want to take the joint apart a few years down the road. Some folks will tell
you never to use teflon tape with compressed air, but I've never had a
problem. Just make sure you apply the tape to the male threads only, and keep
it on the threads -- don't get any into the air passages.
On 2009-07-08, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
> For starters, it is messy compared to Teflon tape. IIRC it stays messy and
> does not completely dry.
.....which means it's easily removed with a wire brush. The same can't be
said of tape.
nb
In article <[email protected]>, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
>Upscale wrote:
>> I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of fittings
>> ~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for these
>> fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
>> what others have done?
>
>I don't see any need for tape or dope on compression fittings.
Compressed air fittings are not the same as compression fittings.
>Non-compression fittings need tape or dope regardless of what they are
>made of?
Tape or dope should be used for all fittings for ease of proper assembly. The
joint won't seal unless it's tight, and the tape or dope reduces friction,
making it easier to get the joint tight. And it's pretty much mandatory for
anything that might be disassembled later.
Robatoy wrote:
>
> We did pretty well with a 'summer dresses' thread-jack
> once.........those were the days.
> Summer dresses are wonderful... unless it's on that bitch Ann Coulter,
> then anything looks like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
I don't agree. I think Coulter's pretty good looking (being rich is a plus).
And Sarah Palin. In fact, all the conservative women you see on TV are
pretty foxy - even Michelle Malkin.
Conversely....
On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:24:12 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Tom Veatch <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Or gain? If a compression fitting leaks, sealant on the threads won't
>>do a thing to help contain the leak.
>
>Teflon tape isn't worth a toot as a sealant anyway, but it's a dandy
>lubricant.
Or gain? If a compression fitting leaks, "lubricant" on the threads
won't do a thing to help contain the leak.
In fact, since a compression fitting can be overtightened, with
adverse effects, lubricant on the threads may be contra-indicated.
I've never encountered a compression fitting (or a flare fitting, for
that matter) where sealed or lubricated threads would be any benefit
either in assembly or disassembly.
Here, I assume we are talking about compression fittings
(http://www.plumbingsupply.com/compress.html) not tapered pipe threads
which seal by interference fit (compression) between the male and
female threads. Another post in this thread seems to blur the
distinction between those two categories.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
In article <[email protected]>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=3C=3C=3C=5F=5F_B=F8b_=5F=5F=3E=3E=3E=22?=
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I always put a dab of dope in the female part,
Not recommended. Every bottle of pipe dope I've ever seen says to apply to
male threads only -- that's to keep the dope on the threads, and out of the
opening.
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:13:47 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>You NEVER want to use Teflon tape on combustion plumbing.
I certainly can't fault your advice other than to mention that
combustion plumbing is a little outside the scope of the OP's
question. Which, if I read correctly, involves plumbing for compressed
air.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
In article <[email protected]>, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "Upscale"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>I've just picked up a new portable compressor, hose and an array of
>>>fittings
>>>~ all connections will be brass to brass. Do I need plumber's tape for
>>>these
>>>fittings or should I be fine with just the brass to brass? I was wondering
>>>what others have done?
>>
>> Well, you need *some* kind of pipe dope in there, if you think you'll ever
>> want to take the joint apart a few years down the road. Some folks will
>> tell
>> you never to use teflon tape with compressed air, but I've never had a
>> problem. Just make sure you apply the tape to the male threads only, and
>> keep
>> it on the threads -- don't get any into the air passages.
>
>Just curious, have you seen any one apply tape to the female threads???
>
LOL -- I meant, as opposed to getting it on any other parts of the male
fitting. But I guess I didn't make that too clear, did I?
"Tom Veatch" wrote:
> Contrary to Lew's experience, I get better results wrt leakfree
> joints
> using the tape than I do with the paste. YMMV, but some sort of
> sealant should be used.
You NEVER want to use Teflon tape on combustion plumbing.
Sooner or later, bits of the tape will break free and end up plugging
the combustion orifices.
A principle of mine was paid in excess of $10,000 for a service call
to a refinery for a piece of combustion equipment they had sold that
the refinery installed.
Emergency travel, weekend service rates, car rentals, etc, etc, all to
discover a plugged orifice from Teflon tape.
It was rookie mistake by a refinery worker.
Less than 15 minutes to solve the problem, but still had a $10,000
invoice to pay.
Lew
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I use the "gas" rated Teflon tape. It is thicker and easier to deal
>> with,
>> and it is identified by it's yellow color.
>
> Ok, that's enough information for me. I've used Teflon tape on plumbing
> joints before, so I'll pick up some of the yellow version. Just for
> interest's sake, I bought the Dewalt D55141 compressor you told me about.
> Haven't run it yet because I was waiting for an order of hose and fittings
> to come in which just did. I'll pick up the tape this weekend and let you
> know how loud this 85db compressor sounds compared to the old one that I'm
> giving to a friend.
>
> Do you know if the yellow version tape will do double duty on regular
> plumbing fixtures? ~ not a money thing, just a convenience if it will
> work.
Yes, it works on regular plumbing, it is thicker and takes less.
"Robatoy" wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------
We did pretty well with a 'summer dresses' thread-jack
once.........those were the days.
Summer dresses are wonderful... unless it's on that bitch Ann Coulter,
then anything looks like a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
---------------------------------------------------------
Look out, Palin's back.
So youl have another pillowcase full of doorknobs to join Coulter
Lew
.