Hello Pierce,
I had a Unifence on my Craftsmen but when I upgraded to a Unisaw I
purchased the Biesemier model. Funny, I like the way the Unifence
operated- it felt smoother in travel and I could adjust it easier and
quicker. Also, for doing cutoff work it was a real snap to adjust the
width of the cut and then move the fence forward of the blade to
eliminate pinch. (The only hazard was having the majority of its length
sticking out in front of the table.) Attaching sacrificial fences took
a little effort because I did not have the best clamps for the job but
a pair of handscrews worked okay.
The downside was when I would move the fence to the other side of the
blade- then I'd have to remove the fence and reverse the thumb
nuts/bolts, etc. Not a big deal but still some additional effort
involved.
With the Bies, switching sides is a piece of cake and I'm now finding
that using the parallel faces makes it easier to attach sac. fences and
a movable cutoff fence as well.
The Bies is a heavier item and, according to the salesman, "is better
suited for the commercial shop or aggressive home di it your selfer"
(or something like that.)
Either way, they are both great fences.
Marc
> > What are the advantages of one over the other?
> Both are good ... but the UniFence, along with a Uni-T-Fence
> http://www.ttrackusa.com/unifence.htm
>
> can give you the best of both worlds, and can 'out Beis the Beis' as far as jigging up is concerned.
I'll second that --- I retrofitted this to my Unifence and I couldn't
be more pleased.
BB wrote:
> "Newsgroups" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>I know there are other ways to mickey mouse it into being square or one
>>could just live with it, but at the cost of the fence, it just seems like
>>they could easily put an nylon adjustment screw on each side of the
> T-square
>>to get this done. Even the cheaper clones and the lower grade fence that
>>came with my contractor's saw have that..
>
>
> Are you sure? My Bies had allen screws to adjust it to square. . .
There are allen screws to get the fence square to the fence rails.
However, the fence can still be out of square to the top of the table.
Some Biesmeyer clones also have a second set of allen screws to adjust
the angle of the fence faces relative to the table top. The name-brand
Bies doesn't have these.
Chris
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Think about it - if the rails are not true to the table, they are going to
> be off by a consistent angle across their length. It would not require two
> sets of adjustments to make this error correct, only one.
We're talking about adjustments in two planes.
The first set of screws allows you to set the fence parallel to the blade.
The second set of screws found on some fences allows to you ensure that
the face of the fence is perpendicular to the table.
Assuming the fence is in good shape, this second set should never be
needed. I expect that some of the clones have this second set in order
to allow the end-user to adjust out errors in the construction process.
It could also allow to realign things if the short "T" section of the
fence got bent from a fall or some similar form of damage.
Chris
"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> > Think about it - if the rails are not true to the table, they are going
to
> > be off by a consistent angle across their length. It would not require
two
> > sets of adjustments to make this error correct, only one.
>
> We're talking about adjustments in two planes.
>
> The first set of screws allows you to set the fence parallel to the blade.
>
> The second set of screws found on some fences allows to you ensure that
> the face of the fence is perpendicular to the table.
>
> Assuming the fence is in good shape, this second set should never be
> needed. I expect that some of the clones have this second set in order
> to allow the end-user to adjust out errors in the construction process.
> It could also allow to realign things if the short "T" section of the
> fence got bent from a fall or some similar form of damage.
>
My bad. That's what I get for jumping in mid-stream, huh?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"BB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:om1rg.3692$Og3.2606@trnddc06...
>
> "Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > BB wrote:
> > > "Newsgroups" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > >>I know there are other ways to mickey mouse it into being square or
one
> > >>could just live with it, but at the cost of the fence, it just seems
> like
> > >>they could easily put an nylon adjustment screw on each side of the
> > > T-square
> > >>to get this done. Even the cheaper clones and the lower grade fence
> that
> > >>came with my contractor's saw have that..
> > >
> > >
> > > Are you sure? My Bies had allen screws to adjust it to square. . .
> >
> > There are allen screws to get the fence square to the fence rails.
> > However, the fence can still be out of square to the top of the table.
> >
> > Some Biesmeyer clones also have a second set of allen screws to adjust
> > the angle of the fence faces relative to the table top. The name-brand
> > Bies doesn't have these.
>
> I have a Bies with a 5HP LT Unisaw - never had a problem - sounds like one
> needs to make sure that the fence rail is mounted correctly on the table -
> if that is done then there is no need to worry about fence faces.
>
Think about it - if the rails are not true to the table, they are going to
be off by a consistent angle across their length. It would not require two
sets of adjustments to make this error correct, only one. True the fence to
the blade and it's done. If the fence is true to the blade, nothing else
matters. If the rails were to be off by a varying angle across their length
you'd have bigger problems than any number of set screws will ever fix.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:46:24 -0400, Bob G.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>================================
>After reading the few replies I still have not figured out if there is
>much of a difference...
>
>About 15 years ago I installed a Bies on my saw and to be honest
>from that day on I have not looked at any fences nor have I been
>tempted to see if I could improve on "My Bies"...
>
>Owners of the Unifence most likely could or do say the same
>thing.....Both are very good fences.
It even goes one step further down the line than that- I've used
Beismeyers fairly extensively for work, but I've got the Delta T2 (if
you're not familiar with it, think of it as a Beis-light) While it's
a little narrower, I haven't found it to be inadequate in any way, or
even noticably different than the Beis in "feel" or accuracy. My
original thought was that I would get the saw as it was at the tool
store, and then upgrade the fence later when I had some more ready
cash, and after using it, I can't see any reason to shell out another
$400 for the marginal upgrade.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 22:20:53 -0500, Mike O. <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 23:46:35 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>What are the advantages of one over the other?
>
>I have worked with both and prefer the Bies.
>We move saws from job to job. The Bies is more heavy duty and the
>rails can take more abuse when moving. I had the Uni on a saw at
>home but have since purchased another with a Bies.
>Both fences can be very accurate and you will get used to the quirks
>of either very quickly.
>
>Mike O.
================================
After reading the few replies I still have not figured out if there is
much of a difference...
About 15 years ago I installed a Bies on my saw and to be honest
from that day on I have not looked at any fences nor have I been
tempted to see if I could improve on "My Bies"...
Owners of the Unifence most likely could or do say the same
thing.....Both are very good fences.
Bob G..
"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Some Biesmeyer clones also have a second set of allen screws to adjust
> the angle of the fence faces relative to the table top. The name-brand
> Bies doesn't have these.
When I go into a Lee Valley store, I'm always eyeing the HTC Bies clone. It
has a micro-adjustment feature with magnifier for exact measurement. Do most
other Bies clones including the original have the fine adjustment?
"Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> The Bies ONLY locks at the front... Thats why it is refered to as a
> "T" square type of fence...and honestly I will NEVER ever go back to
> fences that lock both front and back...simply because they can
> "sometimes" lock down out of square....
Your comment is irrational considering there's pros and cons to both types
of fences.. *Any* fence can lock down out of square if it's not setup
properly. I've got an Excalibur fence that locks down both sides and the
fact that it locks down both sides allays any fears of fence deflection when
running large heavy pieces of wood along the fence.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 23:46:35 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>What are the advantages of one over the other?
I have worked with both and prefer the Bies.
We move saws from job to job. The Bies is more heavy duty and the
rails can take more abuse when moving. I had the Uni on a saw at
home but have since purchased another with a Bies.
Both fences can be very accurate and you will get used to the quirks
of either very quickly.
Mike O.
I upgraded from a Delta contractor's table saw with Delta's standard fence
to a Delta Unisaw with a Beisemeyer fence. I like the fence. My only
disappointment was no adjustment to make fence face perpendicular to the
table. It was at about 87 or 88 degrees out of the box. I ended up putting
a some tape under one of the glides on the T square to tip it to 90 degrees.
I know there are other ways to mickey mouse it into being square or one
could just live with it, but at the cost of the fence, it just seems like
they could easily put an nylon adjustment screw on each side of the T-square
to get this done. Even the cheaper clones and the lower grade fence that
came with my contractor's saw have that..
"R. Pierce Butler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:46:24 -0400, Bob G.
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>================================
> >>After reading the few replies I still have not figured out if there is
> >>much of a difference...
> >>
> >>About 15 years ago I installed a Bies on my saw and to be honest
> >>from that day on I have not looked at any fences nor have I been
> >>tempted to see if I could improve on "My Bies"...
> >>
> >>Owners of the Unifence most likely could or do say the same
> >>thing.....Both are very good fences.
> >
> > It even goes one step further down the line than that- I've used
> > Beismeyers fairly extensively for work, but I've got the Delta T2 (if
> > you're not familiar with it, think of it as a Beis-light) While it's
> > a little narrower, I haven't found it to be inadequate in any way, or
> > even noticably different than the Beis in "feel" or accuracy. My
> > original thought was that I would get the saw as it was at the tool
> > store, and then upgrade the fence later when I had some more ready
> > cash, and after using it, I can't see any reason to shell out another
> > $400 for the marginal upgrade.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Speaking of the T2, I had the opportunity to mess with that fence while at
> Lowes the other day and was not impressed. When locked in place I could
> move the far side laterally with moderate effort. I tried to see if there
> was a lock for the far end but could not see that there was one. Is there
> a lock for the far side?
>
"R. Pierce Butler" wrote in message
> What are the advantages of one over the other?
Both are good ... but the UniFence, along with a Uni-T-Fence
http://www.ttrackusa.com/unifence.htm
can give you the best of both worlds, and can 'out Beis the Beis' as far as
jigging up is concerned.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/21/06
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> R. Pierce Butler wrote:
>
> > What are the advantages of one over the other?
>
> I don't know, but have a Unifence and love it.
>
> Lew
Used to have a unisaw with a Bies. I loved it as well. To me, the Bies
seemed a bit more substantial, plus it seemed like it was easier to
clamp accessory fence bits to it than would have been the case with the
unifence, though I had the saw for such a short time before moving I
have to admit this never came up. Not sure really there's THAT MUCH to
pick between the 2.
Dan
Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 23:46:35 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>What are the advantages of one over the other?
>
>
> As I stood between them side by side set up at various shows here is
> the pitch:
>
> "they are the two best fence systems and you can't go wrong with
> either one of them.
>
> The Unifence is more featured. You can (as I frantically demo) unlock
> the fence extrusion and pull it back to use your scale as a miter gage
> cut off block. You can (more frantic demo) pull the fence off and
> turn it 90 degrees to use the short leg to do the first side trim on
> laminated pieces with the laminate overhanging the fence. You
> can(additional demo, less frantic), use the new flip stops to have
> permenant set ups if you need to come back to certain rip lengths.
> You can move it from side to side (When asked about the bies
> capability to fence from both sides) very simply. You have both
> lateral and perp adjustment easily at your fingertips with supplied
> wrenches hanging on the unit.
>
> The Biese, on the other hand is a Bulldog. Heavy steel tube and angle
> construction, no aluminum components, with hand shimmed laminate
> covered baltic birch on the fence faces. Easy to attach all manner of
> jigs, sacrificial blocks, and feather boards and the like to the fence
> faces.
>
> I always advised heavy production board slammin operations to go for
> the Biese and all others just have a difficult choice that won't
> matter once they get what they choose.
>
> My $.02 worth
>
> Frank
>
I wish to thank eveyone for their opinions regarding this matter. I think
that I will opt for the Unifence. I will take the $100 I save and use it
toward a mobile base. My saw and fence dates back to the 1940's and is a
bit tough to read now for a variety of reasons.
Thanks again eveyone!!!!
Pierce
Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:46:24 -0400, Bob G.
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>================================
>>After reading the few replies I still have not figured out if there is
>>much of a difference...
>>
>>About 15 years ago I installed a Bies on my saw and to be honest
>>from that day on I have not looked at any fences nor have I been
>>tempted to see if I could improve on "My Bies"...
>>
>>Owners of the Unifence most likely could or do say the same
>>thing.....Both are very good fences.
>
> It even goes one step further down the line than that- I've used
> Beismeyers fairly extensively for work, but I've got the Delta T2 (if
> you're not familiar with it, think of it as a Beis-light) While it's
> a little narrower, I haven't found it to be inadequate in any way, or
> even noticably different than the Beis in "feel" or accuracy. My
> original thought was that I would get the saw as it was at the tool
> store, and then upgrade the fence later when I had some more ready
> cash, and after using it, I can't see any reason to shell out another
> $400 for the marginal upgrade.
>
>
>
>
Speaking of the T2, I had the opportunity to mess with that fence while at
Lowes the other day and was not impressed. When locked in place I could
move the far side laterally with moderate effort. I tried to see if there
was a lock for the far end but could not see that there was one. Is there
a lock for the far side?
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 23:46:35 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>What are the advantages of one over the other?
As I stood between them side by side set up at various shows here is
the pitch:
"they are the two best fence systems and you can't go wrong with
either one of them.
The Unifence is more featured. You can (as I frantically demo) unlock
the fence extrusion and pull it back to use your scale as a miter gage
cut off block. You can (more frantic demo) pull the fence off and
turn it 90 degrees to use the short leg to do the first side trim on
laminated pieces with the laminate overhanging the fence. You
can(additional demo, less frantic), use the new flip stops to have
permenant set ups if you need to come back to certain rip lengths.
You can move it from side to side (When asked about the bies
capability to fence from both sides) very simply. You have both
lateral and perp adjustment easily at your fingertips with supplied
wrenches hanging on the unit.
The Biese, on the other hand is a Bulldog. Heavy steel tube and angle
construction, no aluminum components, with hand shimmed laminate
covered baltic birch on the fence faces. Easy to attach all manner of
jigs, sacrificial blocks, and feather boards and the like to the fence
faces.
I always advised heavy production board slammin operations to go for
the Biese and all others just have a difficult choice that won't
matter once they get what they choose.
My $.02 worth
Frank
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:21:40 -0500, Prometheus
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 15:11:45 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Speaking of the T2, I had the opportunity to mess with that fence while at
>>Lowes the other day and was not impressed. When locked in place I could
>>move the far side laterally with moderate effort. I tried to see if there
>>was a lock for the far end but could not see that there was one. Is there
>>a lock for the far side?
>
>Nope- no lock for the far side, but I haven't noticed any problem with
>lateral deflection, and I've played with it quite a lot. AFAIK, there
>isn't a lock on the backside of a Beis. either, though that may be a
>side-effect of only seeing them installed on saws with outfeed tables.
>It's important to note that the display models are often beaten up
>quite a bit by people doing things like intentionally pushing the back
>side to see they can move it, and other impromtu stress tests.
The Bies ONLY locks at the front... Thats why it is refered to as a
"T" square type of fence...and honestly I will NEVER ever go back to
fences that lock both front and back...simply because they can
"sometimes" lock down out of square....
The Bottom line is that if your fence "works" and it does not give you
any problems there is no reason to upgrade to another...
At places like Lowes and Home Depot the display models usually are
assembled by some kid... who is more concerned with getting off work
so he can run home and get ready for his "hot" date that evening...
(nothing wrong with that been there myself a long long time ago)
Enjoy
Bob G.
It's mostly personal preference. Both are excellent.
I have the Biesemeyer and prefer it as I can make different jigs
that ride it like a saddle. It would be tough to do this with a UF.
OTOH the UF can slide and make a stubby fence for use in gauging
cutoffs when using the miter gauge. It also can be rotated to make
a short fence. Neither of which the Beise can do.
There has been a lot of discussion on this topic in the wreck and
a search of the archives would be fruitful.
Art
"R. Pierce Butler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What are the advantages of one over the other?
>
"Newsgroups" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:A4Fqg.36787$AB3.2890@fed1read02...
> I upgraded from a Delta contractor's table saw with Delta's standard fence
> to a Delta Unisaw with a Beisemeyer fence. I like the fence. My only
> disappointment was no adjustment to make fence face perpendicular to the
> table. It was at about 87 or 88 degrees out of the box. I ended up
putting
> a some tape under one of the glides on the T square to tip it to 90
degrees.
> I know there are other ways to mickey mouse it into being square or one
> could just live with it, but at the cost of the fence, it just seems like
> they could easily put an nylon adjustment screw on each side of the
T-square
> to get this done. Even the cheaper clones and the lower grade fence that
> came with my contractor's saw have that..
Are you sure? My Bies had allen screws to adjust it to square. . .
BB
"Bob G." wrote in message
> After reading the few replies I still have not figured out if there is
> much of a difference...
The OP asked the advantages of one over the other. Having used both, there
is only one distinct _advantage_ of one over the other in my
estimation/experience for most wooddorker's:
The Beis, out of the box, is easier to "jig up".
What a salesman trying to make a sales says should be taken with a grain of
salt, as most everything else is arguably subjective and a matter of
personal preference.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/21/06
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:46:24 -0400, Bob G.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>After reading the few replies I still have not figured out if there is
>much of a difference...
>
>About 15 years ago I installed a Bies on my saw and to be honest
>from that day on I have not looked at any fences nor have I been
>tempted to see if I could improve on "My Bies"...
>
>Owners of the Unifence most likely could or do say the same
>thing.....Both are very good fences.
The biggest dislike I have for the Uni is having to change the
position of the fence rail to cut from the other side of the blade.
Granted this not a problem very often but with the Uni you have to
unscrew the fence rail and mount it on the other side. Then when you
have finished with that one cut, you have to move it back.
Normally I'd stand there looking at it trying to figure out how to
make the cut without changing the fence.....and then change it
anyway.:-)
Mike O.
"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> BB wrote:
> > "Newsgroups" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >>I know there are other ways to mickey mouse it into being square or one
> >>could just live with it, but at the cost of the fence, it just seems
like
> >>they could easily put an nylon adjustment screw on each side of the
> > T-square
> >>to get this done. Even the cheaper clones and the lower grade fence
that
> >>came with my contractor's saw have that..
> >
> >
> > Are you sure? My Bies had allen screws to adjust it to square. . .
>
> There are allen screws to get the fence square to the fence rails.
> However, the fence can still be out of square to the top of the table.
>
> Some Biesmeyer clones also have a second set of allen screws to adjust
> the angle of the fence faces relative to the table top. The name-brand
> Bies doesn't have these.
I have a Bies with a 5HP LT Unisaw - never had a problem - sounds like one
needs to make sure that the fence rail is mounted correctly on the table -
if that is done then there is no need to worry about fence faces.
BB
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 15:11:45 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Speaking of the T2, I had the opportunity to mess with that fence while at
>Lowes the other day and was not impressed. When locked in place I could
>move the far side laterally with moderate effort. I tried to see if there
>was a lock for the far end but could not see that there was one. Is there
>a lock for the far side?
Nope- no lock for the far side, but I haven't noticed any problem with
lateral deflection, and I've played with it quite a lot. AFAIK, there
isn't a lock on the backside of a Beis. either, though that may be a
side-effect of only seeing them installed on saws with outfeed tables.
It's important to note that the display models are often beaten up
quite a bit by people doing things like intentionally pushing the back
side to see they can move it, and other impromtu stress tests. Add
that to sloppy assembly by the store in the first place, and even a
great tool can end up looking like a POS. Took a look at my saw at
Farm and Fleet today, and if I'd have gone off from what it looks like
there, I would have never bought it. It was bright and shiny when I
bought mine- but the top is now covered in rust, and everything is
loose and looks like it has been beaten with a hammer. But that's the
display model- mine is still nice and shiny (waxed weekly) and
everything is still tip-top, even though I use it a lot.
I guess my point is not that the Beis isn't a better fence- it is made
of a wider steel tube, but that the T2 is pretty good as well (beat-up
old display models at Lowes aside) and it sure doesn't feel like it's
worth $400 less than the Beis. My plan was to get a Unisaw with the
Beismeyer fence when I got the 36-680, but something came up (as it
always will) and took a bite out of the tool budget. I was expecting
to be disappointed in the contractor's saw with the lighter fence- but
I'm not. It's really a pretty good saw, even comparing it to the
Caddilac that is the Unisaw- and for a price tag that is almost $1000
smaller.
Upscale wrote:
> When I go into a Lee Valley store, I'm always eyeing the HTC Bies clone.
I have the HTC fence with a Jet label.
> It has a micro-adjustment feature with magnifier for exact measurement.
The micro-adjuster is a nice feature when it's needed. In my opinion
the magnifier is a PITA.
> Do most other Bies clones including the original have the fine adjustment?
No.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
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