Hello,
Has anybody tried to drive linseed oil (or any other natural oil) into
wood by vacuum assisted method?
I made a wooden plane, and for that I would like to experiment with
deep penetrating treatments with natural oils. I have a small vacuum
chamber capable of 0,02 bar, and I thought the following:
What if I blocked the mouth with a tight sealer, and the filled the
throat cavity with oil. Then I would apply the vacuum and keep it there
for a couple of days. The wood is beech (sole is made of wenge). I
wonder how long it would take to thorougly wet the plane body if the
linseed oil is BLO type, but it's viscosity would be cut down with for
example orange oil.
Any suggestions (or jokes :) ?
regards,
Samu
[email protected] wrote:
Typically if you put one end of a board in oil capillary action
will rapidly draw the oil through the board.
With a plane, you can seal the mouth and fill the moritce
with the oil. I think that is shat Steve Knight does.
--
FF
Bruce T wrote:
> While the idea of infusing oil (sealant) into the wood seems good, the
> process has a few problems. If we assume that the wood is currently
> stabilized in terms of moisture content and external dimensions, then
> placing the wood into a vacuum chamber is effectively placing it into a
> lower pressure and dryer environment (and doing it relatively quickly).
> While at reduced pressure, the moisture in the wood will be trying to exit
> fairly quickly, and probably causing distortion in the process (think
> transporting the wood to a mountaintop in Arizona). Then, when many of the
> cells in the wood have been broken due to the rapid egress of moisture in
> combination with the lowered ambient pressure, you'll raise the pressure and
> try to force oil into the damaged wood. The end result will probably be
> bad.
>
> BruceT
What you assume is actually true, I did not think of that first. I also
agree with you that vacuum itself is not the primary reason, but the
rapid change in wood moisture balance may indeed cause some trouble.
So, if I still wanted to do this experiment, I should be able to
replace exiting moisture with oil simultaneously. Okay, it's
impossible.
I stand insighted :)
Thanks to everyone.
regards,
Samu
a (mostly for handles) treatment I use sometimes is to make a mix of
linseed oil and parrafin wax, about 50/50 by volume. bring this
(carefully) to a boil with the wood in it and leave it there until the
bubbles stop leaving the end grain. pull the wood item out, wipe it
down a couple of times as it cools and it's good to go. it does seem to
do a good job of waterproofing wood, but I've never done testing for
dimensional stability.
Things tend to vapourize in a vacum. I think you maybe should go the other
way and try applying pressure or maybe just a little heat.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> Has anybody tried to drive linseed oil (or any other natural oil) into
> wood by vacuum assisted method?
>
> I made a wooden plane, and for that I would like to experiment with
> deep penetrating treatments with natural oils. I have a small vacuum
> chamber capable of 0,02 bar, and I thought the following:
>
> What if I blocked the mouth with a tight sealer, and the filled the
> throat cavity with oil. Then I would apply the vacuum and keep it there
> for a couple of days. The wood is beech (sole is made of wenge). I
> wonder how long it would take to thorougly wet the plane body if the
> linseed oil is BLO type, but it's viscosity would be cut down with for
> example orange oil.
>
> Any suggestions (or jokes :) ?
>
> regards,
>
> Samu
>
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Has anybody tried to drive linseed oil (or any other natural oil) into
> wood by vacuum assisted method?
>
Yep, they do it all the time with other liquids.
> I made a wooden plane, and for that I would like to experiment with
> deep penetrating treatments with natural oils. I have a small vacuum
> chamber capable of 0,02 bar, and I thought the following:
>
> What if I blocked the mouth with a tight sealer, and the filled the
> throat cavity with oil. Then I would apply the vacuum and keep it there
> for a couple of days. The wood is beech (sole is made of wenge). I
> wonder how long it would take to thorougly wet the plane body if the
> linseed oil is BLO type, but it's viscosity would be cut down with for
> example orange oil.
>
> Any suggestions (or jokes :) ?
Water and oil are two entirely separate things as far as wood is concerned.
You'll notice that an oiled piece of furniture still cycles with relative
humidity. Got to have some sort of a film barrier to get much lag, and then
you have to ask yourself what you've really done by sucking it in that you
didn't get with the film.
Might want to try one of the water-based acrylics like Polycryl instead.
Takes advantage of cellulose's love of water and "bulks" the fibers. You
can warm the thing in the microwave and submerge if you want to take
advantage of a mild vacuum. Better have some fettling room left in case of
distortion, though the polycryl folks claim that their product will pretty
much maintain.
Works better on green wood, of course, because the water in the wood helps
dilute and carry it about, though with a bit of help from the heat and
keeping air away for a longer time, might do.
There are more exotic methods, as well, including dehydrating with alcohol
or acetone baths and then using natural resins or plastics to bulk the
fibers. Not that it would be worth it for a plane.
Keeping it in a vacuum for a couple of days isn't going to help
much vs. just leaving it at ambient air pressure.
A better way is to completely submerge the plane in the oil.
Apply the vacuum and you will see air and water vapor bubbling
out of the pores in the wood of the plane. The wetter the wood
the longer it will take to get the water vapor out.
When the bubbling from the wood pores stops, the air and
water are exhausted from the wood.
Be careful that you don't pull such a high vacuum that the oil
itself starts to "boil". If you see bubbles forming in the oil
itself then the vacuum is too high.
Let the air back into the chamber and return it to ambient
pressure. Do this just slowly enough that you don't cause the
oil to splash. You want the plane to remain 100% submerged.
The air pressure will now force the oil into the pores of the
wood. This may take a few hours on porous wood or up
to a few days on dense wood. Remove the plane and
wipe off the excess oil. You may have to repeatedly wipe
excess oil for several days until it stops bleeding out.
Art
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> Has anybody tried to drive linseed oil (or any other natural oil) into
> wood by vacuum assisted method?
>
> I made a wooden plane, and for that I would like to experiment with
> deep penetrating treatments with natural oils. I have a small vacuum
> chamber capable of 0,02 bar, and I thought the following:
>
> What if I blocked the mouth with a tight sealer, and the filled the
> throat cavity with oil. Then I would apply the vacuum and keep it there
> for a couple of days. The wood is beech (sole is made of wenge). I
> wonder how long it would take to thorougly wet the plane body if the
> linseed oil is BLO type, but it's viscosity would be cut down with for
> example orange oil.
>
> Any suggestions (or jokes :) ?
>
> regards,
>
> Samu
>
That's what I did with a commercial Japanese plane. Used Watco though. Left
it overnight and by morning, it was running out the ends. No vacuum needed
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> Typically if you put one end of a board in oil capillary action
> will rapidly draw the oil through the board.
>
> With a plane, you can seal the mouth and fill the moritce
> with the oil. I think that is shat Steve Knight does.
>
> --
>
> FF
>
While the idea of infusing oil (sealant) into the wood seems good, the
process has a few problems. If we assume that the wood is currently
stabilized in terms of moisture content and external dimensions, then
placing the wood into a vacuum chamber is effectively placing it into a
lower pressure and dryer environment (and doing it relatively quickly).
While at reduced pressure, the moisture in the wood will be trying to exit
fairly quickly, and probably causing distortion in the process (think
transporting the wood to a mountaintop in Arizona). Then, when many of the
cells in the wood have been broken due to the rapid egress of moisture in
combination with the lowered ambient pressure, you'll raise the pressure and
try to force oil into the damaged wood. The end result will probably be
bad.
BruceT
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> Has anybody tried to drive linseed oil (or any other natural oil) into
> wood by vacuum assisted method?
>
> I made a wooden plane, and for that I would like to experiment with
> deep penetrating treatments with natural oils. I have a small vacuum
> chamber capable of 0,02 bar, and I thought the following:
>
> What if I blocked the mouth with a tight sealer, and the filled the
> throat cavity with oil. Then I would apply the vacuum and keep it there
> for a couple of days. The wood is beech (sole is made of wenge). I
> wonder how long it would take to thorougly wet the plane body if the
> linseed oil is BLO type, but it's viscosity would be cut down with for
> example orange oil.
>
> Any suggestions (or jokes :) ?
>
> regards,
>
> Samu
>
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> Has anybody tried to drive linseed oil (or any other natural oil) into
> wood by vacuum assisted method?
>
Why would you want to do this?
I have saturated red oak with blo, which is really easy to do. It really
isn't any different in appearance than a surface application.
I also saturated some spalted maple. No choice in that because no matter
how much I put on just disappeared until it was saturated.
If sealing the wood from atmospheric influences is the goal, a simple
coating of shellac will provide a much greater vapor barrier than BLO
will. BLO offers little or no moisture protection while shellac is still
the best vapor barrier of any finish, include the plastic ones.
The more you know about shellac...
Ron
www.hockfinishes.com
PS: Back when I was a knifemaker (long long ago) I'd "pressure treat"
the handles in a paint-pot with a high-solids oil mixture. I'd pull a
vacuum on them for a couple of hours, then open the valve with a tube
running from the oil into the pot. Replace vacuum with oil and let
atmospheric force it into the wood. Worked like crazy -- penetrated
cocobolo several inches. But it never did stop the wood from moving,
just slowed it down. Good luck.
[email protected] wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Has anybody tried to drive linseed oil (or any other natural oil) into
> wood by vacuum assisted method?
>
> I made a wooden plane, and for that I would like to experiment with
> deep penetrating treatments with natural oils. I have a small vacuum
> chamber capable of 0,02 bar, and I thought the following:
>
> What if I blocked the mouth with a tight sealer, and the filled the
> throat cavity with oil. Then I would apply the vacuum and keep it there
> for a couple of days. The wood is beech (sole is made of wenge). I
> wonder how long it would take to thorougly wet the plane body if the
> linseed oil is BLO type, but it's viscosity would be cut down with for
> example orange oil.
>
> Any suggestions (or jokes :) ?
>
> regards,
>
> Samu
>
--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:34:53 -0700, Steve knight
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>it can be done but it will not do anything really. some woods won't
>even absorb much and it will make the surface of the wood look lousy.
> the oil will never dry on the inside and it does not stop the wood
>from moving.
> I used to do this with the planes I made and found no difference if I
>did not do it. Plus it was a real pain. I used thinned poly as I
>thought it would dry better. but cutting apart a 2 year plane it was
>still wet on the inside. (white oak plane)
To stop wood movement vacuum impregnate with clear epoxy. It does not
require oxygen to cure.
it can be done but it will not do anything really. some woods won't
even absorb much and it will make the surface of the wood look lousy.
the oil will never dry on the inside and it does not stop the wood
from moving.
I used to do this with the planes I made and found no difference if I
did not do it. Plus it was a real pain. I used thinned poly as I
thought it would dry better. but cutting apart a 2 year plane it was
still wet on the inside. (white oak plane)