I don't believe it! All those stories about devices failing right after
the warranty runs out? It finally happened to us!
My wife loaded the dishwasher this morning and it made strange noises.
She looked it up in our records and we bought it March 19th of last year!
My reaction when she told me was to laugh - old wives tales do come
true :-).
But it may be temporary - something hard in the pump that'll dissolve in
time.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I don't believe it! All those stories about devices failing right after
> the warranty runs out? It finally happened to us!
>
> My wife loaded the dishwasher this morning and it made strange noises.
> She looked it up in our records and we bought it March 19th of last year!
>
> My reaction when she told me was to laugh - old wives tales do come
> true :-).
>
> But it may be temporary - something hard in the pump that'll dissolve in
> time.
She should call and report that it happened before midnight.
Bones and cherry pits don't dissolve for a very long time.
"-MIKE-" wrote
> pffft. 3rd tranny and counting on our 99 Taurus. Paid for it once when
> we bought it. Twice and Thrice to rebuild the fu@&er. And now, a fourth
> time, through my taxes for the bailouts.
>
> Thanks Ford, my @$$ hurts.
>
Not to pick nits or anything. And not commmenting on ford quality.
But Ford started to reform prior to the current economic situation. And they
have not asked for any bailout money.
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:04:38 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Markem" wrote:
>
>> Let see a flow of 8 gallons per hour will give you a 40 degree rise
>> with a tankless.
>
>Just for funzies, checked a tankless web site.
>
>Chose GE strictly at random since I didn't even know they were in the
>business.
>
>Picked a natural gas indoor unit.
>
>Specs indicate that at 4.36 GPM, the rise is 77F.
>
>That is a long way from your specs.
>
>SFWIW, across the country, year around, city water supplies deliver
>50F-55F water from their underground pipes.
>
>50F + 77F = 122F, which is a comfortable shower, at least for me.
>
>4.36 GPM is a lot of water for a shower.
>
>Might want to recheck your data.
>
>BTW, price is a whole nother issue<grin>
Practical in use data from my uncle who has his plumbing business in
Chicago area. GE data is from they're lab, in the field they did not
perform as promised has been the experience. A 77 f rise required a
flow of 2 gallon per hour or less. At $1500 per unit and a payback of
50 years it does not add up. You can buy into GEs data but they have
an agenda (ie selling the things).
Mark
Speaking of warranties...
I have installed two water heaters in my life. Did the whole thing. Bought
it, brought it home, replaced the old one and put in the new one. And
hauled the old one to the dump.
The last time, it had to be done just as I left town for a few days. My wife
insisted that it be done that day. Which meant we had to call a plumber.
Which costs FOUR TIMES as much! I told her to hang on to the paperwork. It
was warrantied for complete replacement, parts and labor for one year.
Wel....., as luck would have it, about a year later the tank goes out. We
ran to ge the paperwork. The warranty would expire THE NEXT DAY! We
hustled to the phone and called it in. A plumber had a cancellation and came
out. He checked the hot water heater and pronounced it dead. So he replaced
it. We were so relieved.
Talk about squeaking by. Usually I am a week late.
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote
>
> I used to laugh at people that bought Hyundai when they first came here.
> Bought an '07 Sonata and it has 51,000 perfect miles. It also has every
> luxury feature that the Buick has, handles better and is faster, for 10
> grand less.
>
My wife bought an '08 Sonata. She was impressed with the safety features. I
was impressed by the fact that I could sit in it and not bump up against
anything. It was roomy for a big guy like me. They wanted to sell us an
extended warranty. But it has been just fine and we have heard good things
from other people.
I was reading some reviews about the Hyundai SUV's. They consistently were
rated less than many others. Including some others I knew were problematic.
I looked a little closer. The problem was that they did not have the big
engines in them. Which might be a problem for pulling trailers, etc. But
not for everyday driving.
So I checked the gas mileage of different SUV's. Hyundais did quite well.
Some old habits die hard. The Hyundais were being marked down for having
good gas mileage! And Detroit wonders why they are having problems.
On Mar 21, 8:40=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
> > I was going to put on on my boat when the time came.
>
> Was?
I picked up on that as well.
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:11:52 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Gerald Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>> I had a Buick Park Ave whose transmission died 1000 miles after the
>> warranty. They fixed it anyway.
>>
>
>When my heated seat broke ($675 to repair) after the 36,000 miles, but
>before the 3 years, they told me to buy a new car. I should have as the
>Buick continued to turn to crap. Still in my driveway (not working at the
>moment) it is the last Buick I'll ever own.
>
"Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick?"
... Hell No!
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:27:41 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>These days warranties are pro rated just like tires and batteries.
>
>These days, tankless water heaters are the way to go, IMHO, especially
>those built with S/S parts.
>
>I was going to put on on my boat when the time came.
Most tankless will only give you a 40 degree f rise in temp at full
flow as the water in winter here comes out of the ground at about 55
degrees a 95 degree shower ain't warm.
Mark
"Leon" wrote:
> By off prek you mean cheaper electric rates at certain times of the
> day?
Yes.
> I wish we had that option in Houston.
Might want to check again.
Most utilities offer off peak programs since it is in their best
interest.
Here in SoCal, off peak billing is available, especially to high
energy users such as cement mills.
> As we speak the local utility pole company is installing electronic
> meters again through out the whole city.
That's going on across the country, it reduces the need for meter
readers.
Lew
This may be a stupid question, but what in a water heater can fail in a
year that requires it to be replaced?
In all my years, I've never had a water heater fail to that extent in
less than 10 years, and only then when the tank leaked. Before that,
it's an easy thing to swap out elements (electrical) or repair/replace
the burner parts (gas)...
Thanks
--Rick
Lee Michaels wrote:
> Speaking of warranties...
>
> I have installed two water heaters in my life. Did the whole thing. Bought
> it, brought it home, replaced the old one and put in the new one. And
> hauled the old one to the dump.
>
> The last time, it had to be done just as I left town for a few days. My wife
> insisted that it be done that day. Which meant we had to call a plumber.
> Which costs FOUR TIMES as much! I told her to hang on to the paperwork. It
> was warrantied for complete replacement, parts and labor for one year.
>
> Wel....., as luck would have it, about a year later the tank goes out. We
> ran to ge the paperwork. The warranty would expire THE NEXT DAY! We
> hustled to the phone and called it in. A plumber had a cancellation and came
> out. He checked the hot water heater and pronounced it dead. So he replaced
> it. We were so relieved.
>
> Talk about squeaking by. Usually I am a week late.
>
>
>
Then you need to determine what temp rise you want, and buy a tankless
that will give you what you need at the rate you use...
I've got a paloma gas tankless heater rated at 199K btu that delivers
140 degree water with a 70 degree rise, but I'm not running it at it's
maximum rated volume either... I would imagine if you look at the
temperature rise vs volume curve you could get the correct rated unit
for the total rise you need for the volume you typically use. With the
one we have, because we have enough excess capacity, both my wife and I
can be in our respective showers at the same time (or one of us can
flush a toilet without affecting the other shower) and it still keeps up
even in our colder winter days (though we don't have 55 degree incoming
water even on the coldest days because of where we live.)
Simple physics in action... if you want to run a tankless heater at
maximum volume, you're going to be very limited in the rise you get.
I know it shouldn't matter, but having lived in rental units with what I
would consider substandard capacity, I KNOW it makes a huge difference.
Unfortunately, most people really don't look at what the REAL needs
are when purchasing a tankless heater, and just buy the cheapest one
they can find. The last place we rented while building our current
residence had an electric tankless (which also had additional periodic
problems with over-temp shutdown in middle of a shower...). The main
problem was that it was rated for the volume one shower took, so the
temp rise was around 40 degrees or so while shower was running. For most
of the year, at least, the incoming water allowed a nice hot shower.
However, if wife flushes toilet in other bath, and (oddly until you
think about it, because on a pump with limited output) shower goes from
nice and toasty to very hot in a few seconds, followed by cold as the
tankless senses over temp and shuts down. The big problem is that not
only you got whacked by the initial burst of hot water because the
volume through the tankless dropped initially, but when the over temp
tripped, you then got either tepid water (if you wer lucky and one
element was still on line) or cold water because the entire tankless was
tripped off. The only way to reset was to get out of shower, go down
hall to utility room and press what looked like circuit breaker buttons
on the tankless heater. Needless to say, not a good thing. OK so if
the tankless had been better protected, (or gas powered) it would have
just lost regulation and the water temp would have been lower until the
toilet tank filled. Still not wonderful, but at least no trip down the
hall for a reset of the breakers on the unit...
One other issue with tankless heaters that nobody seems to ever take
into account is a clothes washer. Unless you've lived with (a
substandard level) one, you don't realize that the clothes washer can
take an amazing amount of water flow when it fills the tub. Even a
reasonably sized tankless will put out barely lukewarm water in the Hot
setting of a typical clothes washer. Put the selector on HOT and with
the typical 2 to 4 gpm rated tankless, you will be lucky to get tepid
water in the washer. (If you contact the manufacturer, you may find you
can get an input restrictor that will slow the hot water rill, but then
it takes 30 minutes to fill the tub...) If, on the other hand, you have
a tankless that can provide enough temp rise to handle the high volume
the wide open valve of the clothes washer, you CAN actually get hot
water for (for example) washing whites or other high temperature items.
[sigh]
Having been through the wars, so to speak, I can understand that people
want to get by with the least cost, but as I age, I find there are times
that every penny spent is worth it's weight in gold. One of those time
is standing in the shower on a cold, rainy morning. Not a week goes by
that I am don't give thanks for having learned there are times to be
cheap and there are times to spend money. One of the times to spend is
when you are buying a tankless water heater. Buy one that can handle at
least twice what anyone else thinks you need, and you may be close to
what you really want, if you don't want to have to jump out of the
shower stream every time your wife flushes a toilet while you are in the
shower, and you will be a much happier user of tankless heaters.
The greatest majority of people I've encountered that don't like
tankless heaters are those that have had to live with one that was
inadequately (in my opinion) sized.
As far as warranties go, many manufacturers these days seem to try to
get the mean time to failure down so far that they cause an inordinate
amount of failures very near the end of the warranty period.
Unfortunately this seems to happen mostly with products on the lower end
of the price scale. I've noticed that as I age and buy better products
with longer warranties, I rarely have anything that fails anywhere near
the warranty period, but previously, when I bought "less expensive"
products of the same type, they seemed to fail just about at the end of
the warranty period... Of course in defense of the manufacturers (used
to work for one...) with the less expensive products, they bank on the
fact that most people don't keep good enough track of the actual
purchase date (or send in the warranty card, or keep the receipt or
other records) to be able to take advantage of the warranty if the
product does actually fail within the warranty period.
--Rick
Markem wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:27:41 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> These days warranties are pro rated just like tires and batteries.
>>
>> These days, tankless water heaters are the way to go, IMHO, especially
>> those built with S/S parts.
>>
>> I was going to put on on my boat when the time came.
>
> Most tankless will only give you a 40 degree f rise in temp at full
> flow as the water in winter here comes out of the ground at about 55
> degrees a 95 degree shower ain't warm.
>
> Mark
Then you need to determine what temp rise you want, and buy a tankless
that will give you what you need at the rate you use...
I've got a paloma gas tankless heater rated at 199K btu that delivers
140 degree water with a 70 degree rise, but I'm not running it at it's
maximum rated volume either... I would imagine if you look at the
temperature rise vs volume curve you could get the correct rated unit
for the total rise you need for the volume you typically use. With the
one we have, because we have enough excess capacity, both my wife and I
can be in our respective showers at the same time (or one of us can
flush a toilet without affecting the other shower) and it still keeps up
even in our colder winter days (though we don't have 55 degree incoming
water even on the coldest days because of where we live.)
Simple physics in action... if you want to run a tankless heater at
maximum volume, you're going to be very limited in the rise you get.
I know it shouldn't matter, but having lived in rental units with what I
would consider substandard capacity, I KNOW it makes a huge difference.
Unfortunately, most people really don't look at what the REAL needs
are when purchasing a tankless heater, and just buy the cheapest one
they can find. The last place we rented while building our current
residence had an electric tankless (which also had additional periodic
problems with over-temp shutdown in middle of a shower...). The main
problem was that it was rated for the volume one shower took, so the
temp rise was around 40 degrees or so while shower was running. For most
of the year, at least, the incoming water allowed a nice hot shower.
However, if wife flushes toilet in other bath, and (oddly until you
think about it, because on a pump with limited output) shower goes from
nice and toasty to very hot in a few seconds, followed by cold as the
tankless senses over temp and shuts down. The big problem is that not
only you got whacked by the initial burst of hot water because the
volume through the tankless dropped initially, but when the over temp
tripped, you then got either tepid water (if you wer lucky and one
element was still on line) or cold water because the entire tankless was
tripped off. The only way to reset was to get out of shower, go down
hall to utility room and press what looked like circuit breaker buttons
on the tankless heater. Needless to say, not a good thing. OK so if
the tankless had been better protected, (or gas powered) it would have
just lost regulation and the water temp would have been lower until the
toilet tank filled. Still not wonderful, but at least no trip down the
hall for a reset of the breakers on the unit...
One other issue with tankless heaters that nobody seems to ever take
into account is a clothes washer. Unless you've lived with (a
substandard level) one, you don't realize that the clothes washer can
take an amazing amount of water flow when it fills the tub. Even a
reasonably sized tankless will put out barely lukewarm water in the Hot
setting of a typical clothes washer. Put the selector on HOT and with
the typical 2 to 4 gpm rated tankless, you will be lucky to get tepid
water in the washer. (If you contact the manufacturer, you may find you
can get an input restrictor that will slow the hot water rill, but then
it takes 30 minutes to fill the tub...) If, on the other hand, you have
a tankless that can provide enough temp rise to handle the high volume
the wide open valve of the clothes washer, you CAN actually get hot
water for (for example) washing whites or other high temperature items.
[sigh]
Having been through the wars, so to speak, I can understand that people
want to get by with the least cost, but as I age, I find there are times
that every penny spent is worth it's weight in gold. One of those time
is standing in the shower on a cold, rainy morning. Not a week goes by
that I am don't give thanks for having learned there are times to be
cheap and there are times to spend money. One of the times to spend is
when you are buying a tankless water heater. Buy one that can handle at
least twice what anyone else thinks you need, and you may be close to
what you really want, if you don't want to have to jump out of the
shower stream every time your wife flushes a toilet while you are in the
shower, and you will be a much happier user of tankless heaters.
The greatest majority of people I've encountered that don't like
tankless heaters are those that have had to live with one that was
inadequately (in my opinion) sized.
As far as warranties go, many manufacturers these days seem to try to
get the mean time to failure down so far that they cause an inordinate
amount of failures very near the end of the warranty period.
Unfortunately this seems to happen mostly with products on the lower end
of the price scale. I've noticed that as I age and buy better products
with longer warranties, I rarely have anything that fails anywhere near
the warranty period, but previously, when I bought "less expensive"
products of the same type, they seemed to fail just about at the end of
the warranty period... Of course in defense of the manufacturers (used
to work for one...) with the less expensive products, they bank on the
fact that most people don't keep good enough track of the actual
purchase date (or send in the warranty card, or keep the receipt or
other records) to be able to take advantage of the warranty if the
product does actually fail within the warranty period.
--Rick
Markem wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:27:41 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> These days warranties are pro rated just like tires and batteries.
>>
>> These days, tankless water heaters are the way to go, IMHO, especially
>> those built with S/S parts.
>>
>> I was going to put on on my boat when the time came.
>
> Most tankless will only give you a 40 degree f rise in temp at full
> flow as the water in winter here comes out of the ground at about 55
> degrees a 95 degree shower ain't warm.
>
> Mark
"Lew Hodgett" wrote
> "Rick Frazier" wrote:
>
>> This may be a stupid question, but what in a water heater can fail in a
>> year that requires it to be replaced?
>> In all my years, I've never had a water heater fail to that extent in
>> less than 10 years, and only then when the tank leaked. Before that,
>> it's an easy thing to swap out elements (electrical) or repair/replace
>> the burner parts (gas)...
>
> My definition of a failed water tank would include failure of a heating
> element(s), but not necessarily the relief valve.
>
I should point out that the replacement of the tank (or at least the labor
involved) was done by the plumbing company. They incurred some kind of
expense. I am certain that if it could have been repaired it, they would
have done so.
What their criteria for replacement versus repair is, I don't know.
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>
> "Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick?"
>
>
> ... Hell No!
My '01 LeSabre has:
broken heated seat
replaced temperature sensor
cruise control switch held in "on" with a broken piece of toothpick
rebuilt transmission ($2600)
wheel bearing replaced (not just the $4 bearing, but the whole damned $200
assembly)
front rotors replaced
vents on passenger side stuck in cold air position
Leak in brake system (been too cold to check and crawl under with an injured
knee)
Ignition coils replaced
To make this woodworking related, both rear windows are held up with a piece
of wood. No kidding, about three months apart the cable system mechanism
broke so I removed the door panels and wedged them closed with a notched
stick and replaced the panel.
I used to laugh at people that bought Hyundai when they first came here.
Bought an '07 Sonata and it has 51,000 perfect miles. It also has every
luxury feature that the Buick has, handles better and is faster, for 10
grand less.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:NJexl.1396$6%[email protected]...
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> It is a shame that they don't tell you about the ones with the life time
>> warranties which really are not that much more money and especially
>> considering at after 10 years you are on borrowed time.
>> I replaced mine about 5 years ago with a 50 gallon Whirlpool that has a
>> life time warranty. $303 including tax plus my labor.
>
> These days warranties are pro rated just like tires and batteries.
If there is a time limit, my warranty specifically indicates free
replacement on parts. Labor not included but I can handle any thing that
comes up in that department if they will let me. I was able to get my
originaly heater to last 22 years.
> These days, tankless water heaters are the way to go, IMHO, especially
> those built with S/S parts.
I agree, I really really wanted to go that route but the cost was going to
out pace the potential savings. I am all electric and would have had to go
with the less efficient electric tankless model. I would have had to have
an electrician run a 50 amp circuit additionally. Fortunately my new
heater had a high effeciency rating. I have watched my electricity useage
like a hawk for the past 20 years, I literally did see a drop in my usage
that amounted to about $15-$20 per month. I speculated that the new heater
would pay for it self with in 2 years and it indeed did.
>
> I was going to put on on my boat when the time came.
Was?
On Mar 21, 9:57=A0pm, Markem <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:27:41 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >These days warranties are pro rated just like tires and batteries.
>
> >These days, tankless water heaters are the way to go, IMHO, especially
> >those built with S/S parts.
>
> >I was going to put on on my boat when the time came.
>
> Most tankless will only give you a 40 degree f rise in temp at full
> flow as the water in winter here comes out of the ground at about 55
> degrees a 95 degree shower ain't warm.
>
> Mark
When I was a kid, we had a small unit above the sink in the kitchen
and a big mofo next to the bathtub. All the hot water (scolding hot)
we would need.
In The Netherlands, we called those tankless units 'geysers'...like 60
years ago....
Oh.. and my mother used to wash my shitty diapers in a 'front-loading'
washing machine..... zowie... modern technology has come across the
Atlantic!
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3tdxl.1382$6%[email protected]...
>
> "-MIKE-" wrote
>
>> Thanks Ford, my @$$ hurts.
>
> FORD:
>
> AKA: Take your choice:
>
> FoundOnRoadDead
>
> FigureOnRepairsDaily
You won't find sympathy here. I'm on my second Cobra, neither of which has
ever had a single problem. Before the Mustangs, I owned a Crown Vic, a
Tempo, and 3 Escorts, all since new. I'm a happy customer, 25 years running.
The sad part is for them. The '03 runs as good today as the day I drove it
home, as did the '96 when I traded it in. The dealership still calls once a
year or so. "Nope, not looking. You built it too well," I have to tell them.
I don't know why it happens. I'm sure they earned the reputation on their
own, but those were old even when I was in high school. I hated the Tempo,
the Escorts were always sorta disposables in my mind, but for the last 18
years, I never had so much as a hint of a problem. Did I say I was a happy
customer?
Gerald Ross wrote:
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> I don't believe it! All those stories about devices failing right
>> after the warranty runs out? It finally happened to us!
>>
>> My wife loaded the dishwasher this morning and it made strange
>> noises. She looked it up in our records and we bought it March 19th
>> of last year!
>>
>> My reaction when she told me was to laugh - old wives tales do come
>> true :-).
>>
>> But it may be temporary - something hard in the pump that'll dissolve
>> in time.
>>
> I had a Buick Park Ave whose transmission died 1000 miles after the
> warranty. They fixed it anyway.
>
I read where Buick won some sort of JD Power award beating out Lexus.
What's that tell you about JD Power? Take a look at
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/Buick/Enclave/2008/SUV/ratings. Seems it
didn't get a 5 ball rating in any category but won the "Most Appealing
Midsize Multi Activity Vehicle" award. Zowie.
gronk,
j4
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> keep my electricity bill under $1K for the whole year in 1996.
>
> If it worked out so well, what stopped you from purchasing your own meter
> after the test period was over?
>
>
At the time, mid 90's, we were only had one electrically provider, you could
not "shop around". I suspect that the local provider probably saw how much
their customers could actually save and was it not in the providers
interest, or perhaps most users did not take full advantage of the set up
and did not change their usage habits. We, I was never offered the
opportunity to buy the equipment or have variable rate pricing after the
trial. Only in the last 6 or 7 years have be been afforded the opportunity
to seek other providers and only now are we /every one getting the digital
electrical meters. We all have to pay for this meter so that the light
company can get rid of all of their walk around meter readers. Over a 10 or
so year period we have to pay extra for those $400 plus meters each month.
The cost is being sold/sugar coated to us as affording us the opportunity to
go on line and see what our bill is at any given time. BIG DEAL I can do
that now with out internet service. I hope that the next step will be that
we can get/be offered variable pricing.
When I was on the plan in the mid 90's our normal pricing for electricity
was about 8 cents per Kwh. On the program I paid 2.5 cents from 10 pm till
6 am the next morning . From 6 am to 1 pm I paid 5.2 cents and from 1 pm to
7 pm I paid 12 cents. 7pm to 10 pm I paid 7.5 cents. This pricing
structure was M-F and only during a 6 month Summer period. Weekends worked
similar however the rate never went over 5.2 cents year round. During the 6
month Winter rate period the rate was exactly like the Summer weekend rate
never going above 5.2 cents.
With the exception of an unusually High Peak Rate period limited to no more
than 2 hours per week we could have been charged 17.2 cents. The thermostat
would display a red light indicating that this was going to be implemented
with in the next hour and the thermostat would respond accordingly depending
on how you wanted that situation to be treated.
"Leon" wrote:
> About the only GM vehicles worth having are the trucks and a select
> few from Chevrolet and Cadillac.
For years I was provided the standard salesman's car, a Chevrolet
Caprice Classic with a V8 engine.
Great car for the first 40K-45K miles, then power and economy went to
hell in a hand basket.
From 45K to 60K when traded, it was a POS to drive.
Lew
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:CEexl.1395$6%[email protected]...
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> About the only GM vehicles worth having are the trucks and a select few
>> from Chevrolet and Cadillac.
>
> For years I was provided the standard salesman's car, a Chevrolet Caprice
> Classic with a V8 engine.
>
> Great car for the first 40K-45K miles, then power and economy went to hell
> in a hand basket.
>
> From 45K to 60K when traded, it was a POS to drive.
>
> Lew
>
>
There is a funny saying about old Chevrolet's. They run longer badly than
other cars run.
"Leon" wrote:
> It is a shame that they don't tell you about the ones with the life
> time warranties which really are not that much more money and
> especially considering at after 10 years you are on borrowed time.
> I replaced mine about 5 years ago with a 50 gallon Whirlpool that
> has a life time warranty. $303 including tax plus my labor.
These days warranties are pro rated just like tires and batteries.
These days, tankless water heaters are the way to go, IMHO, especially
those built with S/S parts.
I was going to put on on my boat when the time came.
Lew
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "Gerald Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>> I had a Buick Park Ave whose transmission died 1000 miles after the
>> warranty. They fixed it anyway.
>>
>
> When my heated seat broke ($675 to repair) after the 36,000 miles, but
> before the 3 years, they told me to buy a new car. I should have as the
> Buick continued to turn to crap. Still in my driveway (not working at the
> moment) it is the last Buick I'll ever own.
>
>
While I was called up for Desert Storm the Buick developed a problem.
My wife talked with the owner of the dealership. They didn't know how
much it would be until they got into it. She explained that I was
called to active duty and if it was very much we would have to pay it
out over a couple of months since our income had taken a hit. Nope!
Had to be paid in full when it was fixed. She had it repaired elsewhere.
That was our third and last Buick.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA
One who has both feet on the ground is
not moving forward.
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> The F150 is about the best thing from Ford. Too bad for Ford, Toyota
> gave me a better deal on a Tundra.
My personal vehicle has been some kind of truck for the last 30 years and I
always wanted to get a Tundra simply from the reliability stand point. I
bought an 07 Tundra in July of 07, paid $6k more than a GMC truck offer but
about $7k off Toyota drive out price and totally felt like I made the better
deal at the time. The fact that I had always wanted a Toyota truck really
did not even enter into the equation, the truck simply felt and drove that
much better. A few weeks later it dawned to me that I had finally gotten
that Toyota. 21 months later I am still extremely happy with my decision to
get a Toyota.
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "-MIKE-" wrote
>> pffft. 3rd tranny and counting on our 99 Taurus. Paid for it once when
>> we bought it. Twice and Thrice to rebuild the fu@&er. And now, a fourth
>> time, through my taxes for the bailouts.
>>
>> Thanks Ford, my @$$ hurts.
>>
> Not to pick nits or anything. And not commmenting on ford quality.
>
> But Ford started to reform prior to the current economic situation. And
> they have not asked for any bailout money.
>
Well actually Ford was in deep do do several years back. Because the
economy was still doing relatively well they were able to take steps early.
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:7d87767b-9750-4e1f-99d8-ff99f9b4d64d@q30g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:
> On Mar 21, 9:57 pm, Markem <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:27:41 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >These days warranties are pro rated just like tires and batteries.
>>
>> >These days, tankless water heaters are the way to go, IMHO,
>> >especially those built with S/S parts.
>>
>> >I was going to put on on my boat when the time came.
>>
>> Most tankless will only give you a 40 degree f rise in temp at full
>> flow as the water in winter here comes out of the ground at about 55
>> degrees a 95 degree shower ain't warm.
>>
>> Mark
>
> When I was a kid, we had a small unit above the sink in the kitchen
> and a big mofo next to the bathtub. All the hot water (scolding hot)
> we would need.
> In The Netherlands, we called those tankless units 'geysers'...like 60
> years ago....
> Oh.. and my mother used to wash my shitty diapers in a 'front-loading'
> washing machine..... zowie... modern technology has come across the
> Atlantic!
One of the features of the geyser next to our shower (when I was near
adulthood) was (in hindsight) rather scary. With the water flowing, and
therefore the geyser "on", an auxiliary flame would shoot out from a
connection near the bottom of the unit. Only about 7-10 cm long nice
blue flame. When we noted this unnecessary and useless flame, we shut
off the unit and called the gasfitter (there was some company that
provided a service contract-like service to keep the house "safe" as far
as gas-supplied appliances and their piping was concerned).
The unit that replaced it was 3 times bigger, eeded electricity, fans
and better exhausting, and completely separated the combustion chamber
from the room, I believe.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
On Mar 21, 9:23 am, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't believe it! All those stories about devices failing right after
> the warranty runs out? It finally happened to us!
>
> My wife loaded the dishwasher this morning and it made strange noises.
> She looked it up in our records and we bought it March 19th of last year!
>
> My reaction when she told me was to laugh - old wives tales do come
> true :-).
>
> But it may be temporary - something hard in the pump that'll dissolve in
> time.
>
> --
> Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
If the problem turns out to be "not temporary", it's not too hard to
open up the pump. The worst part may be getting the machine out from
under the counter. The clamps, the rubber boots, piece of cake,
really. The only thing that might slip you up is a reverse-threaded
bolt on the impeller.... Tom
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:rtcxl.1346$6%[email protected]...
> "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
>
>> When my heated seat broke ($675 to repair) after the 36,000 miles, but
>> before the 3 years, they told me to buy a new car. I should have as the
>> Buick continued to turn to crap. Still in my driveway (not working at
>> the moment) it is the last Buick I'll ever own.
>
> Friend of mine inherited a '94 Buick.
>
> Biggest POS on the planet.
About the only GM vehicles worth having are the trucks and a select few from
Chevrolet and Cadillac.
Having worked in the dealership business end of the auto industry I can
assure you that Isuzu was closer to Rolls Royce in quality than Oldsmobile
was.
It cracks me up when I hear the GM exec's say that they would run off
potential customers if they file bankruptcy, Like they have not done about
a 99% job of that already all by them selves. Society is becoming dumber.
Snip
> BTW, have been warned about an upcoming tranny problem some where around
> 60K miles.
Ford had that exact problem back in the 90's with the Taurus. The dip stick
was too long and indicated full when it was low. During a scheduled
transmission service not enough trans fluid was put back in. This went on
for years and years and years and it was no secret but Ford liked the out of
warranty transmission parts sales and so did the dealers.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:zjgxl.1408$6%[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> I am all electric and would have had to go with the less efficient
>> electric tankless model.
>
> Off peak heating and a 100 gallon tank was my dad's solution for electric
> water heating when he built a home in 1947.
By off prek you mean cheaper electric rates at certain times of the day? I
wish we had that option in Houston. I participated in a pilot test program
in 1995, 1996, and partially in 1997 that the electric company was puttin
on. I was one of about 250 participants in the Houston area. They put in a
digital electric meter, modem, nine way to Sunday programable thermostat
that woul tell you how much electricity you had used for any given day and
during what periods you used it, the cost of each period in the day, and
exactly what your bill was at any point and projected amount that the bill
would be for the month. It also controlled the water heater. I was able to
keep my electricity bill under $1K for the whole year in 1996.
As we speak the local utility pole company is installing electronic meters
again through out the whole city. I hope that we will once again be offered
the variable rate pricing again.
Our current water heater has a "smart" feature. It has a switch console
that offers an option of not keeping the water at a normal useable
temperature until it sences a flow/usage, similar to an on demand heater.
>> Was?
>
>
> Walked away a couple of years ago.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> keep my electricity bill under $1K for the whole year in 1996.
If it worked out so well, what stopped you from purchasing your own meter
after the test period was over?
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> She should call and report that it happened before midnight.
>
> Bones and cherry pits don't dissolve for a very long time.
>
Yeah the cherry pits will sing for months on end. ;~)
> BTW, have been warned about an upcoming tranny problem some where
> around 60K miles.
>
> Lew
>
pffft. 3rd tranny and counting on our 99 Taurus. Paid for it once when
we bought it. Twice and Thrice to rebuild the fu@&er. And now, a
fourth time, through my taxes for the bailouts.
Thanks Ford, my @$$ hurts.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>> Well actually Ford was in deep do do several years back. Because the
>> economy was still doing relatively well they were able to take steps early.
>>
>
>
> The F150 is about the best thing from Ford. Too bad for Ford, Toyota
> gave me a better deal on a Tundra.
I knew I would regret the day I sold my F-150. I could get IN the engine
to work on it. I knew what the heck everything was, without needing to
hook it up to a computer. I rebuilt the carb and ENTIRE brake system
(save most of the lines), for under $200 in parts.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "-MIKE-" wrote
>> pffft. 3rd tranny and counting on our 99 Taurus. Paid for it once when
>> we bought it. Twice and Thrice to rebuild the fu@&er. And now, a fourth
>> time, through my taxes for the bailouts.
>>
>> Thanks Ford, my @$$ hurts.
>>
> Not to pick nits or anything. And not commmenting on ford quality.
>
> But Ford started to reform prior to the current economic situation. And they
> have not asked for any bailout money.
>
Good for them.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3tdxl.1382$6%[email protected]...
>
> "-MIKE-" wrote
>
>> Thanks Ford, my @$$ hurts.
>
> FORD:
>
> AKA: Take your choice:
>
> FoundOnRoadDead
>
> FigureOnRepairsDaily
>
> Lew
>
>
F___ing Old Rebuilt Dodge
"Rick Frazier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Then you need to determine what temp rise you want, and buy a tankless
> that will give you what you need at the rate you use...
>
Just to add another dimension to this discussion, If you have a boiler for
your heat (as opposed to a furnace), an indirect fired water tank may be the
best bet. Mine has a first hour rating over 200 gallons and is very
economical to operate.
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
> My '01 LeSabre has:
> broken heated seat
> replaced temperature sensor
> cruise control switch held in "on" with a broken piece of toothpick
> rebuilt transmission ($2600)
> wheel bearing replaced (not just the $4 bearing, but the whole
> damned $200 assembly)
> front rotors replaced
> vents on passenger side stuck in cold air position
> Leak in brake system (been too cold to check and crawl under with an
> injured knee)
> Ignition coils replaced
>
> To make this woodworking related, both rear windows are held up with
> a piece of wood. No kidding, about three months apart the cable
> system mechanism broke so I removed the door panels and wedged them
> closed with a notched stick and replaced the panel.
Lose the phone number to Ecology Auto.
They pick up that kind of crap.
Even pay you for it<grin>.
Lew
"Gerald Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
> I had a Buick Park Ave whose transmission died 1000 miles after the
> warranty. They fixed it anyway.
>
When my heated seat broke ($675 to repair) after the 36,000 miles, but
before the 3 years, they told me to buy a new car. I should have as the
Buick continued to turn to crap. Still in my driveway (not working at the
moment) it is the last Buick I'll ever own.
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
> When my heated seat broke ($675 to repair) after the 36,000 miles,
> but before the 3 years, they told me to buy a new car. I should
> have as the Buick continued to turn to crap. Still in my driveway
> (not working at the moment) it is the last Buick I'll ever own.
Friend of mine inherited a '94 Buick.
Biggest POS on the planet.
Just for reference, I'm 6'-0", 240 lbs.
Not a midget, but not obese either.
Impossible to get into or out.
Seat adjustments are for midgets.
Bells and whistles start ringing if the turn signal is on for more
than about 20-30 seconds.
With that kind of crap, it's no wonder GM is in trouble.
BTW, have been warned about an upcoming tranny problem some where
around 60K miles.
Lew
Markem <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Let see a flow of 8 gallons per hour will give you a 40 degree rise
> with a tankless. The cost of the unit versus a 12 year 50 gallon unit.
> For me the math does not add up. But then again here in this home we
> will replace the AC/furnace and hot water heater with geothermal. All
> I am saying is do your homework before you let someone talk you into a
> tankless water heater.
>
> Mark
> (sixoneeight) = 618
We have a tankless electric hot water heater out in the back building.
Except for the problem of having to open the water all the way initially
to get it to kick on, it's great for running the sink.
Tankless units might not be good for whole house purposes yet, but for
point-of-use water heating they're well worth looking in to.
Puckdropper
--
On Usenet, no one can hear you laugh. That's a good thing, though, as
some writers are incorrigible.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
"Markem" wrote:
> Let see a flow of 8 gallons per hour will give you a 40 degree rise
> with a tankless.
Just for funzies, checked a tankless web site.
Chose GE strictly at random since I didn't even know they were in the
business.
Picked a natural gas indoor unit.
Specs indicate that at 4.36 GPM, the rise is 77F.
That is a long way from your specs.
SFWIW, across the country, year around, city water supplies deliver
50F-55F water from their underground pipes.
50F + 77F = 122F, which is a comfortable shower, at least for me.
4.36 GPM is a lot of water for a shower.
Might want to recheck your data.
BTW, price is a whole nother issue<grin>
Lew
On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:41:03 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Markem" wrote:
>
>> Most tankless will only give you a 40 degree f rise in temp at full
>> flow as the water in winter here comes out of the ground at about 55
>> degrees a 95 degree shower ain't warm.
>
>You need fullhot water flow for a shower?
Let see a flow of 8 gallons per hour will give you a 40 degree rise
with a tankless. The cost of the unit versus a 12 year 50 gallon unit.
For me the math does not add up. But then again here in this home we
will replace the AC/furnace and hot water heater with geothermal. All
I am saying is do your homework before you let someone talk you into a
tankless water heater.
Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:01:35 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "-MIKE-" wrote
>
>> Thanks Ford, my @$$ hurts.
>
>FORD:
>
>AKA: Take your choice:
>
>FoundOnRoadDead
>
>FigureOnRepairsDaily
>
>Lew
>
Four Old Rusty Doors - but mine is 13 years old now and virtually no
rust.Nice car to drive, royal pain to fix (Contour/Mystique V6)
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:05:22 -0500, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "-MIKE-" wrote
>>> pffft. 3rd tranny and counting on our 99 Taurus. Paid for it once when
>>> we bought it. Twice and Thrice to rebuild the fu@&er. And now, a fourth
>>> time, through my taxes for the bailouts.
>>>
>>> Thanks Ford, my @$$ hurts.
>>>
>> Not to pick nits or anything. And not commmenting on ford quality.
>>
>> But Ford started to reform prior to the current economic situation. And
>> they have not asked for any bailout money.
>>
>
>Well actually Ford was in deep do do several years back. Because the
>economy was still doing relatively well they were able to take steps early.
>
The F150 is about the best thing from Ford. Too bad for Ford, Toyota
gave me a better deal on a Tundra.
"Rick Frazier" wrote:
> This may be a stupid question, but what in a water heater can fail
> in a year that requires it to be replaced?
> In all my years, I've never had a water heater fail to that extent
> in less than 10 years, and only then when the tank leaked. Before
> that, it's an easy thing to swap out elements (electrical) or
> repair/replace the burner parts (gas)...
My definition of a failed water tank would include failure of a
heating element(s), but not necessarily the relief valve.
Lew
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> I don't believe it! All those stories about devices failing right after
> the warranty runs out? It finally happened to us!
>
> My wife loaded the dishwasher this morning and it made strange noises.
> She looked it up in our records and we bought it March 19th of last year!
>
> My reaction when she told me was to laugh - old wives tales do come
> true :-).
>
> But it may be temporary - something hard in the pump that'll dissolve in
> time.
>
I had a Buick Park Ave whose transmission died 1000 miles after the
warranty. They fixed it anyway.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA
One who has both feet on the ground is
not moving forward.
"Robatoy" wrote
Noooo, can't say I have. I flush every source of water till my finger
likes it and I know that the rubber/plastic taste has flushed away.
You?
======================================
I had a brother who used to put the hose in his mouth and let the water
shoot out both nostrils. And he could squirt you with his dual nose water
cannons form a good distance away too. Totally freaked out anybody female
and a few males as well. Makes my nose hurt just to recall it.
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> MikeWhy wrote:
>> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and tested
>>> with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding, actually) I've
>>> ever had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of setting it up. Hurt
>>> like blazes and took weeks to heal.
>>
>> "I learned something from that."
>
> I did - I never built another water-heating panel. :)
>
> It's taken from April of '73 until April of '09 to convince myself that it
> might be worth another go. The memory of that mouthful of 180F water is
> still pretty vivid...
>
> --
I used to work for a crazy inventor type who made a lot of parabolic
reflectors. He used to go for the extreme displays at fairs, etc. He ended
getting kicked out a a couple of them because his demonstrations were
considered too dangerous for a public setting. He even burnt up a couple of
his parabolic dishes.
I would get nervous when he started brainstorming another solar powered
stunt. The stupidest one was when he put a bunch of powdered magnesium in
the focal point. That on almost burnt down a building and half destroyed
the collector.
On Mar 24, 1:16=A0am, "MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and tested
> > with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding, actually) I've ev=
er
> > had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of setting it up. Hurt lik=
e
> > blazes and took weeks to heal.
>
> "I learned something from that."
That moment of burning pain when one's immediate reaction is to say: "
my goodness, I must be more careful next time."
On Mar 22, 9:28=A0pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
> > I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in t=
he
> > last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current one I'm
> > building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid unit.
>
> > The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas units..=
. the
> > electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service as a single un=
it
> > can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
>
> > The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch fo=
r the
> > double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments ... otherwi=
se a
> > unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
>
> Just out of curiosity, does the sun not shine in Texas?
>
> Why not solar?
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
But, but.. what if they wanted to take a bath at night? :-}
Solar cells don't operate with clouds. They need Red/yellow.
Clouds only let in ultraviolet which is a ray that will do some in water...
Electronics is different than water. Simple as that.
Martin [ who has used three solar cell company calculators for my lat/lon]
Morris Dovey wrote:
> Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
>> Morris Dovey wrote:
>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down)
>>>> in the last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the
>>>> current one I'm building, although the owner's are now contemplating
>>>> a hybrid unit.
>>>>
>>>> The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas
>>>> units... the electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A
>>>> service as a single unit can require as many as three 60A breakers
>>>> to operate.
>>>>
>>>> The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch
>>>> for the double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments
>>>> ... otherwise a unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
>>>
>>> Just out of curiosity, does the sun not shine in Texas?
>>>
>>> Why not solar?
>>>
> > Texas is like saying the North East of the US.
>
> Hmm - the only solar water heater I ever built was when I lived in the
> Hudson River valley about 60 miles or so north of NYC. I took it out to
> test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and tested
> with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding, actually) I've
> ever had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of setting it up. Hurt
> like blazes and took weeks to heal.
>
> > East Texas is covered about 6 months of the year in fog or cloud.
> > West Texas is sunny for 300+ days.
> > South Texas is likely 6 months again.
>
> Something's wrong. Methinks I need to build another one and take it to
> southeastern Texas for a bit of testing...
>
> > We get clouds from Canada, Gulf coast region, Pacific south of Hawaii.
> > Fronts push stuff here from Colorado or North Dakota.
>
> Clouds should slow 'em down, but not by enough to have folks taking cold
> showers.
>
> Which reminds me, Robatoy's little shop "firnace" should be in the
> process of shutting itself down about now. Have you noticed a drop in
> output over past week or two, Rob?
>
> > Sad state of things. Rats really.
>
> I think it's an easily solved problem - and from the numbers I've seen
> tossed out in this thread, worth solving.
>
> Digressing again, I received an e-mail with a video from a couple of
> young guys in Pakistan who liked one of the solar engines they saw on my
> web site well enough to try building one their own. Theirs isn't
> solar-powered yet, but might be interesting to folks in sunny areas who
> have a use for irrigation pumps. There's a photo and two short videos at
>
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/Elsewhere/
>
> Wow! Did I ramble far enough off-topic? :)
>
On Mar 22, 11:09=A0pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Which reminds me, Robatoy's little shop "firnace" should be in the
> process of shutting itself down about now. Have you noticed a drop in
> output over past week or two, Rob?
>
Output has dropped. For one reason, the units are under an overhang.
The unexpected time I really noticed their effectiveness, was when I
wasn't even in the shop on some weekends. I'd turn the thermostat down
to 8C, walked in one Sunday afternoon to pick up a few things and the
shop was 10C, whilst the outside temp was around 2C. Now, by no means
is 10C comfortable, it got there without my furnace.
>
> Wow! Did I ramble far enough off-topic? :)
At every opportunity, <G> and please, keep doing so.
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On Mar 24, 12:26=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> >>> It's taken from April of '73 until April of '09 to convince myself th=
at
> >>> it might be worth another go. The memory of that mouthful of 180F wat=
er
> >>> is still pretty vivid...
> >> Has no one else scalded themselves from trying to drink out
> >> of the hose that was lying in the yard all day?
>
> >> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> > Noooo, can't say I have. I flush every source of water till my finger
> > likes it and I know that the rubber/plastic taste has flushed away.
> > You?
>
> Wasn't quite so smart at age 9.
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Oh, okay then, that does make a difference.
Swingman wrote:
> I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in the
> last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current one I'm
> building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid unit.
>
> The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas units... the
> electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service as a single unit
> can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
>
> The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch for the
> double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments ... otherwise a
> unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
Just out of curiosity, does the sun not shine in Texas?
Why not solar?
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>
>>> I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in
>>> the last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current
>>> one I'm building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid
>>> unit.
>>>
>>> The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas
>>> units... the electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service
>>> as a single unit can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
>>>
>>> The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch
>>> for the double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments
>>> ... otherwise a unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, does the sun not shine in Texas?
>>
>> Why not solar?
>>
> Texas is like saying the North East of the US.
Hmm - the only solar water heater I ever built was when I lived in the
Hudson River valley about 60 miles or so north of NYC. I took it out to
test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and tested
with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding, actually) I've
ever had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of setting it up. Hurt
like blazes and took weeks to heal.
> East Texas is covered about 6 months of the year in fog or cloud.
> West Texas is sunny for 300+ days.
> South Texas is likely 6 months again.
Something's wrong. Methinks I need to build another one and take it to
southeastern Texas for a bit of testing...
> We get clouds from Canada, Gulf coast region, Pacific south of Hawaii.
> Fronts push stuff here from Colorado or North Dakota.
Clouds should slow 'em down, but not by enough to have folks taking cold
showers.
Which reminds me, Robatoy's little shop "firnace" should be in the
process of shutting itself down about now. Have you noticed a drop in
output over past week or two, Rob?
> Sad state of things. Rats really.
I think it's an easily solved problem - and from the numbers I've seen
tossed out in this thread, worth solving.
Digressing again, I received an e-mail with a video from a couple of
young guys in Pakistan who liked one of the solar engines they saw on my
web site well enough to try building one their own. Theirs isn't
solar-powered yet, but might be interesting to folks in sunny areas who
have a use for irrigation pumps. There's a photo and two short videos at
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/Elsewhere/
Wow! Did I ramble far enough off-topic? :)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Leon wrote:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Why not solar?
>
> The solar craze went through Houston in the early 80's and it sucked. It
> literally cost more than it saved. And yes it was solar in its infancy.
> I have heard that there is a new community on the NE side of Houston that is
> using solar roofs and the community was about 25% dependent on pole
> electricity, or so they claimed. I have not heard much lately about it
> however.
I know what you're talking about. A lot of the early solar stuff wasn't
very well designed or built and, sadly, too many of the current products
are just copies of the old stuff.
It's just about impossible to make a good economic case for PV-generated
electricity for anywhere except remote off-grid areas.
OTOH, solar heat for either space heating and/or water heating is hugely
more efficient and can be a real cost saver for a substantial fraction
of residences and a smaller fraction (but still significant number) of
small businesses.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Robatoy wrote:
> On Mar 22, 11:09 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Which reminds me, Robatoy's little shop "firnace" should be in the
>> process of shutting itself down about now. Have you noticed a drop in
>> output over past week or two, Rob?
>>
>
> Output has dropped. For one reason, the units are under an overhang.
That'll certainly have an effect. :)
> The unexpected time I really noticed their effectiveness, was when I
> wasn't even in the shop on some weekends. I'd turn the thermostat down
> to 8C, walked in one Sunday afternoon to pick up a few things and the
> shop was 10C, whilst the outside temp was around 2C. Now, by no means
> is 10C comfortable, it got there without my furnace.
Hmm - I dunno if that's really a good test, since at least some of the
heat must have been residual (stored in the slab, tools, solid surface
stock, etc).
Now if you'd put in a trio of 8-foot panels, instead of that lonely
4-footer, and the temperature had been close to 23C... then you'd have
had a more credible test. ;)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Swingman wrote:
> The current client, in this custom, is interested in solar, but she wants
> one "whole house" gas tankless as a supplement.
>
> She is still vacillating on the solar roof system in a spot where the sun
> shines 200 days a year, don't ask my why.
Well, you just never know for sure that the sun'll actually keep on
rising every morning. :)
> I advise, but ultimately build to wishes/budget.
Makes perfect sense to me. And it reminds me that I need to keep on with
my efforts to (borrowing a phrase) inform peoples' discretion...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
MikeWhy wrote:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and tested
>> with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding, actually) I've
>> ever had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of setting it up.
>> Hurt like blazes and took weeks to heal.
>
> "I learned something from that."
I did - I never built another water-heating panel. :)
It's taken from April of '73 until April of '09 to convince myself that
it might be worth another go. The memory of that mouthful of 180F water
is still pretty vivid...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
-MIKE- wrote:
> Has no one else scalded themselves from trying to drink out
> of the hose that was lying in the yard all day?
Most folks only do it once, however. :)
I enjoy building things that push the state of the art - but I've made a
point of /not/ building things that have the potential to cause injury
(or that lend themselves to being weaponized).
Consider it just one of a number of personal quirks.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
-MIKE- wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
>> I enjoy building things that push the state of the art - but I've made
>> a point of /not/ building things that have the potential to cause
>> injury (or that lend themselves to being weaponized).
>>
>> Consider it just one of a number of personal quirks.
>
> So, no solar powered hot water canons in your future?
Not even accidental ones.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Lee Michaels wrote:
> I used to work for a crazy inventor type who made a lot of parabolic
> reflectors. He used to go for the extreme displays at fairs, etc. He ended
> getting kicked out a a couple of them because his demonstrations were
> considered too dangerous for a public setting. He even burnt up a couple of
> his parabolic dishes.
>
> I would get nervous when he started brainstorming another solar powered
> stunt. The stupidest one was when he put a bunch of powdered magnesium in
> the focal point. That on almost burnt down a building and half destroyed
> the collector.
Yikes! It's probably not great form to quote my self, but here's an
extract from an e-mail I sent to a gentleman in Montreal who's thinking
of building a parabolic trough:
"Although the mirror width is 48", the trough (with the mirror curved)
is somewhat less, but still provides concentration to more than 100 suns
- resulting in dangerous temperatures and extreme brightness at the focus.
You should protect your eyes with something like welding goggles when
you work with your concentrator outdoors - and /please/ remember that
shiny bright things attract children, and that even older children do
not listen well to warnings about dangers to their eyes."
He'd already read the warning at
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/Heat.html
I'm with you. These things need to be handled with care.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:30:22 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mar 21, 9:57 pm, Markem <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Most tankless will only give you a 40 degree f rise in temp at full
>> flow as the water in winter here comes out of the ground at about 55
>> degrees a 95 degree shower ain't warm.
>When I was a kid, we had a small unit above the sink in the kitchen
>and a big mofo next to the bathtub. All the hot water (scolding hot)
>we would need.
>In The Netherlands, we called those tankless units 'geysers'...like 60
>years ago....
>Oh.. and my mother used to wash my shitty diapers in a 'front-loading'
>washing machine..... zowie... modern technology has come across the
>Atlantic!
Most of the Europe have water tanks in the home for better pressure,
most of the US does not. Read the specs on the tankless water heaters,
check at the temp of the water out of the pipe then make your decision
as to the usefulness of a tankless water heater.
Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618
On Mar 22, 8:02=A0am, Markem <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:30:22 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Mar 21, 9:57=A0pm, Markem <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Most tankless will only give you a 40 degree f rise in temp at full
> >> flow as the water in winter here comes out of the ground at about 55
> >> degrees a 95 degree shower ain't warm.
> >When I was a kid, we had a small unit above the sink in the kitchen
> >and a big mofo next to the bathtub. All the hot water (scolding hot)
> >we would need.
> >In The Netherlands, we called those tankless units 'geysers'...like 60
> >years ago....
> >Oh.. and my mother used to wash my shitty diapers in a 'front-loading'
> >washing machine..... zowie... modern technology has come across the
> >Atlantic!
>
> Most of the Europe have water tanks in the home for better pressure,
> most of the US does not. Read the specs on the tankless water heaters,
> check at the temp of the water out of the pipe then make your decision
> as to the usefulness of a tankless water heater.
>
> Mark
> (sixoneeight) =3D 618
I replaced the hot water tank (NG), furnace and central air all in the
last month. It was time. The water tank had a seeping leak, and the
furnace was sadly out of date. The central air had an estimated Seer
of around 6, (An old, but very reliable Coleman) so it had to go too.
Why now? Well, tax incentives, one hell of a deal with the gas company
(Free AC with furnace) and a rebate program to boot. I seriously
looked into the tankless water heaters as they are devices which have
always made a lot of sense to me--> heat the water as you use it. But
not at those prices. The payback would have 55 years. Not to mention
the amount of space AROUND the damn thing which I had to give up. They
will come down in price, but by that time nurses will give me sponge
baths along with my Pablum.
This whole incentive/rebate/tax-credit approach to helping the economy
is appearing to help as some of the tax rebated include basic home
renovations such as countertops *S*
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Has no one else scalded themselves from trying to drink out
> of the hose that was lying in the yard all day?
No, but I've done worse. Had my wisdom teeth removed in the hospital. I was
pretty groggy afterwards recovering from the anaesthetic, but was able to
gather a urine sample at the request of the nurse. Fell asleep after that,
but work up thirsty a little while later. Naturally, I reached for the
little cup sitting on the beside table and took a sip. It wasn't water...
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in the
> last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current one I'm
> building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid unit.
>
> The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas units...
> the electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service as a single
> unit can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
Geez, will the glass cover over the electric meter contain the spinning
wheel if it blew a bearing during a long hot shower? LOL
>
> The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch for
> the double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments ...
> otherwise a unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
>
> The units I use need 12" of clearance above and below, and are about 20"
> high to start with.
>
> I have a SketchUp file of an installation in the current project that I
> would post, but you it would probably scare you to death trying to figure
> out how to open it!
LOL
Oh he'd need a more powerful puter for sure. ;~)
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Swingman wrote:
>
>> I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in the
>> last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current one I'm
>> building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid unit.
>>
>> The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas units...
>> the electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service as a single
>> unit can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
>>
>> The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch for
>> the double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments ...
>> otherwise a unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
>
> Just out of curiosity, does the sun not shine in Texas?
>
> Why not solar?
Nothing wrong with solar ... however, you would not normally do solar on $1
million "spec home" around here if you want to sell it. Most of the folks
who buy in this range could care less about the cost of anything and are the
last interested in "green" (except $$), as they are typically too wrapped up
in their egocentric selves.
Or, in a custom home where the client is not interested.
The current client, in this custom, is interested in solar, but she wants
one "whole house" gas tankless as a supplement.
She is still vacillating on the solar roof system in a spot where the sun
shines 200 days a year, don't ask my why.
I advise, but ultimately build to wishes/budget.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>> Why not solar?
>>
>> The solar craze went through Houston in the early 80's and it sucked.
>> It literally cost more than it saved. And yes it was solar in its
>> infancy.
>> I have heard that there is a new community on the NE side of Houston that
>> is using solar roofs and the community was about 25% dependent on pole
>> electricity, or so they claimed. I have not heard much lately about it
>> however.
>
> I know what you're talking about. A lot of the early solar stuff wasn't
> very well designed or built and, sadly, too many of the current products
> are just copies of the old stuff.
>
> It's just about impossible to make a good economic case for PV-generated
> electricity for anywhere except remote off-grid areas.
>
> OTOH, solar heat for either space heating and/or water heating is hugely
> more efficient and can be a real cost saver for a substantial fraction of
> residences and a smaller fraction (but still significant number) of small
> businesses.
Unfortunately the solar craze focused on helping the water heaters out.
Basically you had large 100 square foot solar panels on the roof and the
cost back then was $3-5K. The systems were breaking down long before
getting anywhere near break even.
I am glint to have to look up the new community I mentioned. Apparently the
electrical solar panels blend in with the roofs and don't really look like
an add on, most of the roof is the solar panel.
Very close to where I live is a concrete business center. At least one of
the concrete buildings has underground cooling. The owner had this set up
installed after he built the building. Concrete being a poor insulator was
a pretty good test to see how well the cooler worked. The building was
almost chilly during the summer months IIRC and his electric bill was less
than mine. He was an AutoCAD distributor and offered training with several
computers and projectors contributing to heating up the large rooms.
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and tested
> with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding, actually) I've ever
> had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of setting it up. Hurt like
> blazes and took weeks to heal.
"I learned something from that."
On Mar 22, 7:38=A0pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote
>
> > (Free AC with furnace) and a rebate program to boot. I seriously
> > looked into the tankless water heaters as they are devices which have
> > always made a lot of sense to me--> heat the water as you use it. But
> > not at those prices. The payback would have 55 years. Not to mention
> > the amount of space AROUND the damn thing which I had to give up. They
> > will come down in price, but by that time nurses will give me sponge
> > baths along with my Pablum.
>
> I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in the
> last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current one I'm
> building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid unit.
>
> The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas units... =
the
> electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service as a single unit
> can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
>
> The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch for =
the
> double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments ... otherwise=
a
> unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
>
> The units I use need 12" of clearance above and below, and are about 20"
> high to start with.
>
> I have a SketchUp file of an installation in the current project that I
> would post, but you it would probably scare you to death trying to figure
> out how to open it!
>
> <g, d &r>
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
LOL... didn't you drop 500 US greenbacks just so you can export a
drawing in a proper format to the rest of the civilized world?
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:fa290e18-5eca-463a-b067-87d8935d9fcd@m36g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 22, 7:52 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
If I can do a radiosity rendering on a complex model, I think I might
have enough juice to open up a sketch in crayon. =0)
Well you should be able to get SU to work too huh? ;~) All that power.
I know, I know. LOL
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> MikeWhy wrote:
>> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and tested
>>> with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding, actually) I've
>>> ever had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of setting it up. Hurt
>>> like blazes and took weeks to heal.
>>
>> "I learned something from that."
>
> I did - I never built another water-heating panel. :)
>
> It's taken from April of '73 until April of '09 to convince myself that it
> might be worth another go. The memory of that mouthful of 180F water is
> still pretty vivid...
Bah! I'll bet you drink room temperature coffee. I also meant illustrating
the effectiveness of solar. Consider yourself twice blessed. I'd be more
skeptical if my black Lab does't sit out in the winter sun to watch the
neighborhood, and come in hours later toasty warm.
On Mar 24, 12:11=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
> > MikeWhy wrote:
> >> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>> test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and
> >>> tested with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding,
> >>> actually) I've ever had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of
> >>> setting it up. Hurt like blazes and took weeks to heal.
>
> >> "I learned something from that."
>
> > I did - I never built another water-heating panel. :)
>
> > It's taken from April of '73 until April of '09 to convince myself that
> > it might be worth another go. The memory of that mouthful of 180F water
> > is still pretty vivid...
>
> Has no one else scalded themselves from trying to drink out
> of the hose that was lying in the yard all day?
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Noooo, can't say I have. I flush every source of water till my finger
likes it and I know that the rubber/plastic taste has flushed away.
You?
On Mar 22, 7:52=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in t=
he
> > last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current one I'm
> > building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid unit.
>
> > The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas units..=
.
> > the electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service as a singl=
e
> > unit can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
>
> Geez, will the glass cover over the electric meter contain the spinning
> wheel if it blew a bearing during a long hot shower? =A0LOL
>
>
>
> > The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch fo=
r
> > the double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments ...
> > otherwise a unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
>
> > The units I use need 12" of clearance above and below, and are about 20=
"
> > high to start with.
>
> > I have a SketchUp file of an installation in the current project that I
> > would post, but you it would probably scare you to death trying to figu=
re
> > out how to open it!
>
> LOL
> Oh he'd need a more powerful puter for sure. =A0;~)
If I can do a radiosity rendering on a complex model, I think I might
have enough juice to open up a sketch in crayon. =3D0)
Morris Dovey wrote:
> MikeWhy wrote:
>> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and
>>> tested with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding,
>>> actually) I've ever had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of
>>> setting it up. Hurt like blazes and took weeks to heal.
>>
>> "I learned something from that."
>
> I did - I never built another water-heating panel. :)
>
> It's taken from April of '73 until April of '09 to convince myself that
> it might be worth another go. The memory of that mouthful of 180F water
> is still pretty vivid...
>
Has no one else scalded themselves from trying to drink out
of the hose that was lying in the yard all day?
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Robatoy wrote:
>>> It's taken from April of '73 until April of '09 to convince myself that
>>> it might be worth another go. The memory of that mouthful of 180F water
>>> is still pretty vivid...
>> Has no one else scalded themselves from trying to drink out
>> of the hose that was lying in the yard all day?
>>
>> -MIKE-
>
> Noooo, can't say I have. I flush every source of water till my finger
> likes it and I know that the rubber/plastic taste has flushed away.
> You?
Wasn't quite so smart at age 9.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Morris Dovey wrote:
> I enjoy building things that push the state of the art - but I've made a
> point of /not/ building things that have the potential to cause injury
> (or that lend themselves to being weaponized).
>
> Consider it just one of a number of personal quirks.
>
So, no solar powered hot water canons in your future?
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Robatoy wrote:
> On Mar 24, 1:16 am, "MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and tested
>>> with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding, actually) I've ever
>>> had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of setting it up. Hurt like
>>> blazes and took weeks to heal.
>> "I learned something from that."
>
> That moment of burning pain when one's immediate reaction is to say: "
> my goodness, I must be more careful next time."
I think you misspelled "AAAAAGH! GOTDAMM SUMMA *BITCH*!"
--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
"Robatoy" wrote
> (Free AC with furnace) and a rebate program to boot. I seriously
> looked into the tankless water heaters as they are devices which have
> always made a lot of sense to me--> heat the water as you use it. But
> not at those prices. The payback would have 55 years. Not to mention
> the amount of space AROUND the damn thing which I had to give up. They
> will come down in price, but by that time nurses will give me sponge
> baths along with my Pablum.
I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in the
last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current one I'm
building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid unit.
The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas units... the
electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service as a single unit
can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch for the
double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments ... otherwise a
unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
The units I use need 12" of clearance above and below, and are about 20"
high to start with.
I have a SketchUp file of an installation in the current project that I
would post, but you it would probably scare you to death trying to figure
out how to open it!
<g, d &r>
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Texas is like saying the North East of the US.
East Texas is covered about 6 months of the year in fog or cloud.
West Texas is sunny for 300+ days.
South Texas is likely 6 months again.
We get clouds from Canada, Gulf coast region, Pacific south of Hawaii.
Fronts push stuff here from Colorado or North Dakota.
Sad state of things. Rats really.
Martin
Morris Dovey wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>
>> I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in
>> the last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current one
>> I'm building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid unit.
>>
>> The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas
>> units... the electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service
>> as a single unit can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
>>
>> The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch
>> for the double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments
>> ... otherwise a unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
>
> Just out of curiosity, does the sun not shine in Texas?
>
> Why not solar?
>
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Swingman wrote:
>
>> I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in the
>> last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current one I'm
>> building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid unit.
>>
>> The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas units...
>> the electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service as a single
>> unit can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
>>
>> The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch for
>> the double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments ...
>> otherwise a unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
>
> Just out of curiosity, does the sun not shine in Texas?
>
> Why not solar?
The solar craze went through Houston in the early 80's and it sucked. It
literally cost more than it saved. And yes it was solar in its infancy.
I have heard that there is a new community on the NE side of Houston that is
using solar roofs and the community was about 25% dependent on pole
electricity, or so they claimed. I have not heard much lately about it
however.
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Speaking of warranties...
>
> I have installed two water heaters in my life. Did the whole thing. Bought
> it, brought it home, replaced the old one and put in the new one. And
> hauled the old one to the dump.
>
> The last time, it had to be done just as I left town for a few days. My
> wife insisted that it be done that day. Which meant we had to call a
> plumber. Which costs FOUR TIMES as much! I told her to hang on to the
> paperwork. It was warrantied for complete replacement, parts and labor for
> one year.
>
> Wel....., as luck would have it, about a year later the tank goes out. We
> ran to ge the paperwork. The warranty would expire THE NEXT DAY! We
> hustled to the phone and called it in. A plumber had a cancellation and
> came out. He checked the hot water heater and pronounced it dead. So he
> replaced it. We were so relieved.
>
> Talk about squeaking by. Usually I am a week late.
It is a shame that they don't tell you about the ones with the life time
warranties which really are not that much more money and especially
considering at after 10 years you are on borrowed time.
I replaced mine about 5 years ago with a 50 gallon Whirlpool that has a life
time warranty. $303 including tax plus my labor.