I've been asked by a client to turn an 8' section of 42" wide lane into
a pair of benches for their new mud room.
I am going to have to make one 8' rip cut and two +- 21" cross cuts.
I know I am going to hit more nails than I think, and I think I'm going
to hit a LOT of nails.
So the question is:
What blade(s)? Should I just buy a bunch of throw-aways (where I'm
leaning) and consider them consumables?
Is there a specific type of cutting device that a local shop may have?
I don't mind jobbing it out...
Any and all advice, etc.,
djb
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
On 3/22/2015 1:02 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Just as important, wear eye protection plus a shield, no matter
>> what blade you use. Flying bits and pieces of nails and/or blade
>> tips will definitely be a hazzard. Might want to wear a neck wrap
>> and thick fabric (canvas, leather) long sleeves, also.
>
> Yup. I have prescription safety glasses, and a face shield, and a
> good leather carver's apron. I could even put on the kevlar chaps I
> wear when I fire up the chainsaur!
Whatever you wind up doing, Dave, consider using something like
cheesecloth to wrap the intakes on your circular saw. I salvaged a
couple of rooms of rock maple flooring that were about 80 years old at
the time, had been refinished god only knows how many times and even
though I was careful to stay away from the areas where I knew I'd hit
nails, I ruined that saw. There was enough grit and crap (and, yes, the
occasional bits of metal for those nails that didn't cooperate) that
made its way into the armature, etc. that the saw - fortunately a cheap
one - gave its life so that others might enjoy some really fine old
flooring<G>
On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 2:05:17 PM UTC-4, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Markem
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > My take is it really important to go slow when making this kind of
> > cut. Trying to force the saw to cut faster will end up forcing you to
> > cut more than once.
>
> The faster I go, the behinder I get. BTDT.
>
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up.
On Saturday, March 21, 2015 at 1:06:16 PM UTC-5, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> I've been asked by a client to turn an 8' section of 42" wide lane into
> a pair of benches for their new mud room.
>
> I am going to have to make one 8' rip cut and two +- 21" cross cuts.
>
> I know I am going to hit more nails than I think, and I think I'm going
> to hit a LOT of nails.
>
> So the question is:
>
> What blade(s)? Should I just buy a bunch of throw-aways (where I'm
> leaning) and consider them consumables?
>
> Is there a specific type of cutting device that a local shop may have?
> I don't mind jobbing it out...
>
> Any and all advice, etc.,
>
> djb
>
> --
> Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
If you are going for a throw away (which happens to be my "use all the time blade") try the 50 tooth (not the 40tooth, but the 50 tooth)blade from Harbor Freight.
BTW, I know this is heresy to many of you, but the HF blade may not last as long as a WWII but I have run them side by side and the HF blade actually cuts smoother on cross cuts and as good on rip cuts.
On 3/21/2015 7:55 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Dave Balderstone <[email protected]> wrote in news:210320151206128855%
> [email protected]:
>
>> I've been asked by a client to turn an 8' section of 42" wide lane into
>> a pair of benches for their new mud room.
>>
>> I am going to have to make one 8' rip cut and two +- 21" cross cuts.
>>
>> I know I am going to hit more nails than I think, and I think I'm going
>> to hit a LOT of nails.
>>
>> So the question is:
>>
>> What blade(s)? Should I just buy a bunch of throw-aways (where I'm
>> leaning) and consider them consumables?
>
> How thick is this? Will a 4" diamond blade in an angle
> grinder get thru it? If so, that's how I'd probably
> attack it - the diamond blades will cut thru anything.
>
> John
>
It is not a matter if cutting the material. A diamond blade would
likely burn the wood.
In article <[email protected]>, Greg Guarino
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I've got one of these:
>
> http://www.zircon.com/products/metal_m40.html
>
> It would find the nails pretty precisely. Whether or not it's possible
> to avoid them once they are marked is a different question.
I've got a cheapo version. Locating the nails for the crosscuts is
doable, but it must be ripped down a specific line, so I'ma gonna hitta
nails.
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>, John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
> How thick is this? Will a 4" diamond blade in an angle
> grinder get thru it? If so, that's how I'd probably
> attack it - the diamond blades will cut thru anything.
>
> John
Too thick for that. I used that setup installing my garden door a few
years back, and cursed the man who thought embedding rock chips in
stucco was somehow a good idea.
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>, Leon
<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
<snippage>
> But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change dimensions to avoid
> nails.
>
I have enough length to cut away that I may well be able to avoid nails
on the cross-cuts. The rip, however, must be where it must be
regardless of what metal is inside.
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>, Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> > <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >
> > <snippage>
> >
> >> But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change dimensions to avoid
> >> nails.
> >>
> >
> > I have enough length to cut away that I may well be able to avoid nails
> > on the cross-cuts. The rip, however, must be where it must be
> > regardless of what metal is inside.
>
>
> I think I'd be looking at a bunch of el cheapo Harbor Fright blades for
> that job and, as you say, treat them as consumables.
>
> Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in a bowling
> alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to center the rip cut
> down the middle of one of the strips which might keep you clear of most
> nails. Dimensions, you indicate, are critical yet you referred to +/-
> 21" for the depth on that bench. 21" seems a bit deep or is this for
> "Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
I think it's too wide as well, but the client wants it that way. The
rip cut will, in fact, be centered down a strip (I think they're about
1.5")
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>, Leon
<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> On 3/22/2015 7:19 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> > On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> >> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >>
> >> <snippage>
> >>
> >>> But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change dimensions to avoid
> >>> nails.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I have enough length to cut away that I may well be able to avoid nails
> >> on the cross-cuts. The rip, however, must be where it must be
> >> regardless of what metal is inside.
> >
> >
> > I think I'd be looking at a bunch of el cheapo Harbor Fright blades for
> > that job and, as you say, treat them as consumables.
> >
> > Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in a bowling
> > alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to center the rip cut
> > down the middle of one of the strips which might keep you clear of most
> > nails. Dimensions, you indicate, are critical yet you referred to +/-
> > 21" for the depth on that bench. 21" seems a bit deep or is this for
> > "Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
> >
> >
> >
> Regardless of how you feel about a dimension, when a customer tells you
> a dimension you don't have choice.
>
> If you want a customer to pay you, you treat him as if he is always
> right or correct him and risk loosing him.
I discussed it with the client, and she has legitimate reasons for
wanting it wide. The fact I disagree with her has no bearing on doing
the job. It's purely a matter of preference.
And if she agrees in hindsight I was right, I'll likely get the job
trimming it back. So it's a win/win.
;-)
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>, Leon
<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> > OTOH if the "client" is so anal that he'll only allow loss of a kerf
> > width of material, maybe he'd be better off firing the client as that
> > may only be the tip of the "problem iceberg"<g>
>
> Seriously the request to cut dead center is not unreasonable at all.
> What would be unreasonable is if the person taking the job is not
> prepared to hit nails. This is not a complex job as indicated by the OP.
Not complex at all. I find it very amusing how quickly folks try to
read the mind of someone (my client) they really know nothing about.
The job is simple. The client has reasons for the width that are
legitimate, even if I disagree from a taste perspective.
Dunno how a simple question about cutting embedded nails became a
discussion about firing the client, but randomness, thy name is usenet!
rotflmao
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 3/22/15 12:34 PM, Leon wrote:
> >>
> >> OTOH if the "client" is so anal that he'll only allow loss of a kerf
> >> width of material, maybe he'd be better off firing the client as that
> >> may only be the tip of the "problem iceberg"<g>
> >
> > Seriously the request to cut dead center is not unreasonable at all.
> > What would be unreasonable is if the person taking the job is not
> > prepared to hit nails. This is not a complex job as indicated by the OP.
> >
>
> Most jobs aren't complex until they get posted in here. :-)
Nailed it!
+1!
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>,
Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just as important, wear eye protection plus a shield, no matter what blade
> you use. Flying bits and pieces of nails and/or blade tips will definitely
> be a hazzard. Might want to wear a neck wrap and thick fabric (canvas,
> leather) long sleeves, also.
Yup. I have prescription safety glasses, and a face shield, and a good
leather carver's apron. I could even put on the kevlar chaps I wear
when I fire up the chainsaur!
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>,
Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 9:11:01 AM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
> > Don't wait for a blade to dull or become damaged, before changing. Make
> > 3' (maybe 4') long cuts, change blade, make another 3'-4' cut, change
> > blade, etc.
>
> Don't discard a changed blade. Use it again, after it cools. Discard it
> when it becomes too damaged or too dull, for efficient cutting.
>
> Sonny
>
Great advice in two posts. Thanks, Sonny.
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>, Markem
<[email protected]> wrote:
> My take is it really important to go slow when making this kind of
> cut. Trying to force the saw to cut faster will end up forcing you to
> cut more than once.
The faster I go, the behinder I get. BTDT.
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>, John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Dave Balderstone <[email protected]> wrote in news:210320151206128855%
> [email protected]:
>
> > I've been asked by a client to turn an 8' section of 42" wide lane into
> > a pair of benches for their new mud room.
> >
> > I am going to have to make one 8' rip cut and two +- 21" cross cuts.
> >
> > I know I am going to hit more nails than I think, and I think I'm going
> > to hit a LOT of nails.
> >
> > So the question is:
> >
> > What blade(s)? Should I just buy a bunch of throw-aways (where I'm
> > leaning) and consider them consumables?
>
> How thick is this? Will a 4" diamond blade in an angle
> grinder get thru it? If so, that's how I'd probably
> attack it - the diamond blades will cut thru anything.
Cutting steel at high speed may destroy the blade - diamond is carbon,
which molten iron dissolves freely.
Joe Gwinn
In article <[email protected]>, Lew
Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
> You have an opportunity.
>
> Think I'd get a premier blade like the Forrest AKA: The Leon Special.
>
> Assume you are going to chip a couple of teeth as well as an obvious
> regrind and include that in your costs as well as the initial cost of
> the
> blade.
>
> When you're done you end up with a bonus of a quality blade you
> would not probably buy without this opportunity.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Lew
A couple of blade recommendations, thanks guys.
I hadn't thought of it as an opportunity, Lew. Thanks a LOT for
shifting my mental gears. I need to think like that more.
I'll go talk to the nice folks at Great Northern Saw here in ToonTown.
I could bill the regrind to the client.
And people ask me what usenet has to offer. Go figure. There's nobody
like wreckers.
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <%[email protected]>, Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On 3/22/2015 1:02 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Just as important, wear eye protection plus a shield, no matter
> >> what blade you use. Flying bits and pieces of nails and/or blade
> >> tips will definitely be a hazzard. Might want to wear a neck wrap
> >> and thick fabric (canvas, leather) long sleeves, also.
> >
> > Yup. I have prescription safety glasses, and a face shield, and a
> > good leather carver's apron. I could even put on the kevlar chaps I
> > wear when I fire up the chainsaur!
>
> Whatever you wind up doing, Dave, consider using something like
> cheesecloth to wrap the intakes on your circular saw. I salvaged a
> couple of rooms of rock maple flooring that were about 80 years old at
> the time, had been refinished god only knows how many times and even
> though I was careful to stay away from the areas where I knew I'd hit
> nails, I ruined that saw. There was enough grit and crap (and, yes, the
> occasional bits of metal for those nails that didn't cooperate) that
> made its way into the armature, etc. that the saw - fortunately a cheap
> one - gave its life so that others might enjoy some really fine old
> flooring<G>
Good advice. Thanks.
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>, Dr.
Deb <[email protected]> wrote:
> If you are going for a throw away (which happens to be my "use all the time
> blade") try the 50 tooth (not the 40tooth, but the 50 tooth)blade from Harbor
> Freight.
>
> BTW, I know this is heresy to many of you, but the HF blade may not last as
> long as a WWII but I have run them side by side and the HF blade actually
> cuts smoother on cross cuts and as good on rip cuts.
Unfortunately, there's no HF up here...
Talked to my saw shop this morning and they're recommending the DW3191
nail cutter at $25 (18 tooth). I'm thinking four blades ought to do it,
and it's a direct bill-through to the client.
Thanks, Deb.
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 12:51:23 PM UTC-5, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> I think it's too wide as well, but the client wants it that way.
I don't see a problem with 21" wide (depth) seating, even for a bench. Most home seating is that deep. A porch swing seat is that deep. Nook or bay window seating is that deep.
My guess is that she has cushions in mind, also. Alls thems womens likes decoratives accents cushions.
Sonny
On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 9:33:21 AM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:2-
> [email protected]:
>
> > It is not a matter if cutting the material.
>
> Of course it's a matter of cutting material - specifically
> nails. The question posed was whether there's a blade that
> will cut thru nails without harming itself, or whether to
> use blades which will be destroyed by nails and treat them
> as disposables.
>
> > A diamond blade would
> > likely burn the wood.
>
> Which might or might not be an issue, depending on the
> construction of the piece. The cut edges might be
> hidden.
>
> Moot point, tho, since Dave says it's too thick.
>
"Too thick" is relative to the size of the blade you use...
http://www.dexpan.com/images/Dexpan/Tool_Equipment/Demolition_Contractor_Equipment/Diamond_Blade_Concrete_Gas_Saw_Stone_Cutter_Tool_2.jpg
On 3/21/2015 5:07 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 3/21/2015 2:06 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> I've been asked by a client to turn an 8' section of 42" wide lane into
>> a pair of benches for their new mud room.
>>
>> I am going to have to make one 8' rip cut and two +- 21" cross cuts.
>>
>> I know I am going to hit more nails than I think, and I think I'm going
>> to hit a LOT of nails.
>>
>> So the question is:
>>
>> What blade(s)? Should I just buy a bunch of throw-aways (where I'm
>> leaning) and consider them consumables?
>>
>> Is there a specific type of cutting device that a local shop may have?
>> I don't mind jobbing it out...
>>
>> Any and all advice, etc.,
>>
>> djb
>>
> I've got one of these:
>
> http://www.zircon.com/products/metal_m40.html
>
> It would find the nails pretty precisely. Whether or not it's possible
> to avoid them once they are marked is a different question.
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change dimensions to avoid
nails.
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 18:13:36 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Greg Guarino
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I've got one of these:
>>
>> http://www.zircon.com/products/metal_m40.html
>>
>> It would find the nails pretty precisely. Whether or not it's possible
>> to avoid them once they are marked is a different question.
>
>I've got a cheapo version. Locating the nails for the crosscuts is
>doable, but it must be ripped down a specific line, so I'ma gonna hitta
>nails.
I guess you could always use a metal cutting blade (hack-saw) but it
would be a pretty slow cut. A big metal cutting band-saw would do the
job..
On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 10:50:42 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 3/22/2015 9:31 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 10:09:13 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> >> On 3/22/2015 7:19 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> >>> On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> >>>> In article <[email protected]>,
> >>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> <snippage>
> >>>>
> >>>>> But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change dimensions
> >>>>> to avoid nails.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I have enough length to cut away that I may well be able to
> >>>> avoid nails on the cross-cuts. The rip, however, must be where
> >>>> it must be regardless of what metal is inside.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think I'd be looking at a bunch of el cheapo Harbor Fright
> >>> blades for that job and, as you say, treat them as consumables.
> >>>
> >>> Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in a
> >>> bowling alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to center
> >>> the rip cut down the middle of one of the strips which might keep
> >>> you clear of most nails. Dimensions, you indicate, are critical
> >>> yet you referred to +/- 21" for the depth on that bench. 21"
> >>> seems a bit deep or is this for "Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Regardless of how you feel about a dimension, when a customer tells
> >> you a dimension you don't have choice.
> >>
> >> If you want a customer to pay you, you treat him as if he is
> >> always right or correct him and risk loosing him.
> >
> > Leon,
> >
> > I'm really surprised to hear that, especially coming from a man of
> > your talents.
> >
> > What about "teaching moments"? I have clients that give me the
> > equivalent of "dimensions" in my business. When they are off base I
> > gently explain to them the error of their ways. They are not paying
> > me (or you) to blindly follow their misguided instructions, they are
> > paying me (and you) for our expertise in our field.
>=20
> I was a bit too vague. But in a case like this the dimensions seem=20
> reasonable, a pair of benches for a new mud room. While a typical=20
> dining room chair is 17~18 deep if you are hauling in groceries you=20
> might want a larger/deeper area to set the groceries down on so that you=
=20
> can take you shoes off before entering the rest of the house. I would=20
> say that the bench can't be too deep but could be too shallow.
>=20
> But yes you are right about teaching from experience, and in other type=
=20
> situations I do make suggestions if the client is not thinking about=20
> certain factors that come into play. But benches 21" x 48" probably=20
> don't have many gotcha's.
>=20
> >
> > I have actually fired well-paying clients for not taking my advice
> > and trying to force me to adhere to their "dimensions". In the long
> > run, no one is going to be happy if we become "Yes Men" to those
> > using our services when the client is clearly headed down the wrong
> > path.
>=20
> I can't say that I have fired a client, I have never paid a client. ;~)
> But I know what you are talking about here. I typically work something=
=20
> out that is satisfactory to the client. Where there is a will there is=
=20
> a way and I often have to spend some time to work out the details.
I'm sure you know what I mean, but just to fill in the details...
In my business the phrase "to fire a client" means that you formally inform=
them that it is time to sever the relationship and stop working together. =
Just like they can fire me if they don't like the way I am handling their s=
ituation, I can fire them if I know longer feel that the relationship is be=
neficial to both sides or possibly detrimental to one side or the other.
I'm not a doctor, but we can use the medical field as an example. Let's say=
a doctor can't get a patient to follow his advice and eventually gives in =
to the patient's wishes related to their care. When the patient dies and th=
e family sues the MD, the courts will probably side with the family because=
the doctor was the "expert" in the relationship. Those are the types of cl=
ients that should be fired long before things get out of hand.=20
Anyone working in a field where there is a regulatory body looking out for =
the "little guy" needs to choose their clients very carefully and be prepar=
ed to fire clients, even well-paying clients, when the client's "dimensions=
" can't be - or shouldn't be - adhered to.
>=20
> >
> > Granted, there are times when the dimensions must be adhered to, such
> > as a bench that must fit into a specific space (or the equivalent in
> > my business) but in those cases the reasons and options should be
> > known to all parties up front, and in my business, put in writing.
> >
On 3/22/2015 3:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/22/15 2:01 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/22/2015 12:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 3/22/15 12:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> OTOH if the "client" is so anal that he'll only allow loss of a kerf
>>>>> width of material, maybe he'd be better off firing the client as that
>>>>> may only be the tip of the "problem iceberg"<g>
>>>>
>>>> Seriously the request to cut dead center is not unreasonable at all.
>>>> What would be unreasonable is if the person taking the job is not
>>>> prepared to hit nails. This is not a complex job as indicated by the
>>>> OP.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Most jobs aren't complex until they get posted in here. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ROTFL You left out, until posted here AND a remedy suggested.
>
> That was the implication. :-)
>
>
Yeah. ;~)
"Dave Balderstone" wrote:
> I've been asked by a client to turn an 8' section of 42" wide lane
> into
> a pair of benches for their new mud room.
>
> I am going to have to make one 8' rip cut and two +- 21" cross cuts.
>
> I know I am going to hit more nails than I think, and I think I'm
> going
> to hit a LOT of nails.
>
> So the question is:
>
> What blade(s)? Should I just buy a bunch of throw-aways (where I'm
> leaning) and consider them consumables?
>
> Is there a specific type of cutting device that a local shop may
> have?
> I don't mind jobbing it out...
>
> Any and all advice, etc.,
-------------------------------------------------------------
You have an opportunity.
Think I'd get a premier blade like the Forrest AKA: The Leon Special.
Assume you are going to chip a couple of teeth as well as an obvious
regrind and include that in your costs as well as the initial cost of
the
blade.
When you're done you end up with a bonus of a quality blade you
would not probably buy without this opportunity.
Have fun.
Lew
On 3/22/2015 11:02 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 3/22/2015 9:09 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/22/2015 7:19 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>> On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
>>>> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>> Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in a bowling
>>> alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to center the rip cut
>>> down the middle of one of the strips which might keep you clear of most
>>> nails. Dimensions, you indicate, are critical yet you referred to +/-
>>> 21" for the depth on that bench. 21" seems a bit deep or is this for
>>> "Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Regardless of how you feel about a dimension, when a customer tells you
>> a dimension you don't have choice.
>>
>> If you want a customer to pay you, you treat him as if he is always
>> right or correct him and risk loosing him.
>
> I agree with that to a certain point. That said, I direct your
> attention to Dave's original post. I understood the situation to be
> that the 42" wide lane was to be ripped in half to provide for two
> sections approximately 21" wide (at least that's what I took his "+ -"
> to mean.
I read your first comment that 21" might be a bit too wide to mean a few
inches too wide vs. less than an inch. Maybe that is not what you meant
as indicated by what you are saying vs. the above comment.
>
> Given that the maximum width of a board comprising the lane might be
> what? 1" to 1½"? Seems reasonable that he could rip down the center of
> one, miss most if not all of the nails and still be within "specs"
This is assuming that the nails are not 1.5 boards wide. or that the
lane has an even number of boards. Where ever they are he is going to
need to be prepared to cut nails.
>
> OTOH if the "client" is so anal that he'll only allow loss of a kerf
> width of material, maybe he'd be better off firing the client as that
> may only be the tip of the "problem iceberg"<g>
Seriously the request to cut dead center is not unreasonable at all.
What would be unreasonable is if the person taking the job is not
prepared to hit nails. This is not a complex job as indicated by the OP.
On 3/22/2015 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 10:50:42 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/22/2015 9:31 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 10:09:13 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 3/22/2015 7:19 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>>>> On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Leon
>>>>>> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snippage>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change
>>>>>>> dimensions to avoid nails.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have enough length to cut away that I may well be able
>>>>>> to avoid nails on the cross-cuts. The rip, however, must be
>>>>>> where it must be regardless of what metal is inside.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I'd be looking at a bunch of el cheapo Harbor Fright
>>>>> blades for that job and, as you say, treat them as
>>>>> consumables.
>>>>>
>>>>> Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in
>>>>> a bowling alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to
>>>>> center the rip cut down the middle of one of the strips which
>>>>> might keep you clear of most nails. Dimensions, you
>>>>> indicate, are critical yet you referred to +/- 21" for the
>>>>> depth on that bench. 21" seems a bit deep or is this for
>>>>> "Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Regardless of how you feel about a dimension, when a customer
>>>> tells you a dimension you don't have choice.
>>>>
>>>> If you want a customer to pay you, you treat him as if he is
>>>> always right or correct him and risk loosing him.
>>>
>>> Leon,
>>>
>>> I'm really surprised to hear that, especially coming from a man
>>> of your talents.
>>>
>>> What about "teaching moments"? I have clients that give me the
>>> equivalent of "dimensions" in my business. When they are off base
>>> I gently explain to them the error of their ways. They are not
>>> paying me (or you) to blindly follow their misguided
>>> instructions, they are paying me (and you) for our expertise in
>>> our field.
>>
>> I was a bit too vague. But in a case like this the dimensions
>> seem reasonable, a pair of benches for a new mud room. While a
>> typical dining room chair is 17~18 deep if you are hauling in
>> groceries you might want a larger/deeper area to set the groceries
>> down on so that you can take you shoes off before entering the rest
>> of the house. I would say that the bench can't be too deep but
>> could be too shallow.
>>
>> But yes you are right about teaching from experience, and in other
>> type situations I do make suggestions if the client is not thinking
>> about certain factors that come into play. But benches 21" x 48"
>> probably don't have many gotcha's.
>>
>>>
>>> I have actually fired well-paying clients for not taking my
>>> advice and trying to force me to adhere to their "dimensions". In
>>> the long run, no one is going to be happy if we become "Yes Men"
>>> to those using our services when the client is clearly headed
>>> down the wrong path.
>>
>> I can't say that I have fired a client, I have never paid a client.
>> ;~) But I know what you are talking about here. I typically work
>> something out that is satisfactory to the client. Where there is a
>> will there is a way and I often have to spend some time to work out
>> the details.
>
> I'm sure you know what I mean, but just to fill in the details...
Yes I knew exactly what you meant, hence the ;~), smiley face. ;~)
On 3/22/2015 9:41 AM, Markem wrote:
> My take is it really important to go slow when making this kind of
> cut. Trying to force the saw to cut faster will end up forcing you to
> cut more than once.
>
Well actually this is solid advise when cutting most anything. You
should never push a blade or tool to work past its capacity.
On 3/22/2015 9:31 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 10:09:13 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/22/2015 7:19 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>> On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snippage>
>>>>
>>>>> But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change dimensions
>>>>> to avoid nails.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have enough length to cut away that I may well be able to
>>>> avoid nails on the cross-cuts. The rip, however, must be where
>>>> it must be regardless of what metal is inside.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I'd be looking at a bunch of el cheapo Harbor Fright
>>> blades for that job and, as you say, treat them as consumables.
>>>
>>> Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in a
>>> bowling alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to center
>>> the rip cut down the middle of one of the strips which might keep
>>> you clear of most nails. Dimensions, you indicate, are critical
>>> yet you referred to +/- 21" for the depth on that bench. 21"
>>> seems a bit deep or is this for "Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Regardless of how you feel about a dimension, when a customer tells
>> you a dimension you don't have choice.
>>
>> If you want a customer to pay you, you treat him as if he is
>> always right or correct him and risk loosing him.
>
> Leon,
>
> I'm really surprised to hear that, especially coming from a man of
> your talents.
>
> What about "teaching moments"? I have clients that give me the
> equivalent of "dimensions" in my business. When they are off base I
> gently explain to them the error of their ways. They are not paying
> me (or you) to blindly follow their misguided instructions, they are
> paying me (and you) for our expertise in our field.
I was a bit too vague. But in a case like this the dimensions seem
reasonable, a pair of benches for a new mud room. While a typical
dining room chair is 17~18 deep if you are hauling in groceries you
might want a larger/deeper area to set the groceries down on so that you
can take you shoes off before entering the rest of the house. I would
say that the bench can't be too deep but could be too shallow.
But yes you are right about teaching from experience, and in other type
situations I do make suggestions if the client is not thinking about
certain factors that come into play. But benches 21" x 48" probably
don't have many gotcha's.
>
> I have actually fired well-paying clients for not taking my advice
> and trying to force me to adhere to their "dimensions". In the long
> run, no one is going to be happy if we become "Yes Men" to those
> using our services when the client is clearly headed down the wrong
> path.
I can't say that I have fired a client, I have never paid a client. ;~)
But I know what you are talking about here. I typically work something
out that is satisfactory to the client. Where there is a will there is
a way and I often have to spend some time to work out the details.
>
> Granted, there are times when the dimensions must be adhered to, such
> as a bench that must fit into a specific space (or the equivalent in
> my business) but in those cases the reasons and options should be
> known to all parties up front, and in my business, put in writing.
>
On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
> <snippage>
>
>> But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change dimensions to avoid
>> nails.
>>
>
> I have enough length to cut away that I may well be able to avoid nails
> on the cross-cuts. The rip, however, must be where it must be
> regardless of what metal is inside.
I think I'd be looking at a bunch of el cheapo Harbor Fright blades for
that job and, as you say, treat them as consumables.
Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in a bowling
alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to center the rip cut
down the middle of one of the strips which might keep you clear of most
nails. Dimensions, you indicate, are critical yet you referred to +/-
21" for the depth on that bench. 21" seems a bit deep or is this for
"Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
On 3/23/2015 1:38 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <%[email protected]>, Unquestionably Confused
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 3/22/2015 1:02 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just as important, wear eye protection plus a shield, no matter
>>>> what blade you use. Flying bits and pieces of nails and/or blade
>>>> tips will definitely be a hazzard. Might want to wear a neck wrap
>>>> and thick fabric (canvas, leather) long sleeves, also.
>>>
>>> Yup. I have prescription safety glasses, and a face shield, and a
>>> good leather carver's apron. I could even put on the kevlar chaps I
>>> wear when I fire up the chainsaur!
>>
>> Whatever you wind up doing, Dave, consider using something like
>> cheesecloth to wrap the intakes on your circular saw. I salvaged a
>> couple of rooms of rock maple flooring that were about 80 years old at
>> the time, had been refinished god only knows how many times and even
>> though I was careful to stay away from the areas where I knew I'd hit
>> nails, I ruined that saw. There was enough grit and crap (and, yes, the
>> occasional bits of metal for those nails that didn't cooperate) that
>> made its way into the armature, etc. that the saw - fortunately a cheap
>> one - gave its life so that others might enjoy some really fine old
>> flooring<G>
>
> Good advice. Thanks.
>
But keep in mind that a filter over the intake also clogs and stops
airflow through the intake. You could end up with a worse problem, a
burned up motor.
BUT Bowling alley lanes typically don't have a lot of debris and you
will likely not encounter anything harmful to your saw as far as the
dust that is created. IMHO
I actually watch a video of a bowling alley being refurbished and they
were using what appeared to be a DeWalt circular saw for cutting out the
pin setting section of the alley. I don't recall seeing anything
covering the motor.
On 3/21/2015 1:06 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> I've been asked by a client to turn an 8' section of 42" wide lane into
> a pair of benches for their new mud room.
>
> I am going to have to make one 8' rip cut and two +- 21" cross cuts.
>
> I know I am going to hit more nails than I think, and I think I'm going
> to hit a LOT of nails.
>
> So the question is:
>
> What blade(s)? Should I just buy a bunch of throw-aways (where I'm
> leaning) and consider them consumables?
>
> Is there a specific type of cutting device that a local shop may have?
> I don't mind jobbing it out...
>
> Any and all advice, etc.,
>
> djb
>
I have cut through many 15ga. finish nails with my WWII in the past 15
years unintentionally. The blade cuts through them with little effort.
So carbide blades can do this with out being trashed. There are
carbide blades specifically designed to cut steel. Festool makes one
for their track saw.
I would buy a new throw away carbide blade and see how far it gets.
That might be less expensive than buying one that is meant for that purpose.
On 3/22/2015 8:32 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:2-
> [email protected]:
>
>> It is not a matter if cutting the material.
>
> Of course it's a matter of cutting material - specifically
> nails. The question posed was whether there's a blade that
> will cut thru nails without harming itself, or whether to
> use blades which will be destroyed by nails and treat them
> as disposables.
Yes there is a blade. Carbide tipped blades will cut through nails.
the better the blade and more suited the longer it will last.
I have a carbide tooth blade that is designed to cut steel.
https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tool-accessories/track-saws/blades/steel-multilayered-board-36-tooth-saw-blade-495384
>
>> A diamond blade would
>> likely burn the wood.
>
> Which might or might not be an issue, depending on the
> construction of the piece. The cut edges might be
> hidden.
>
> Moot point, tho, since Dave says it's too thick.
Actually too thick if using a blade too small in diameter but there is
very likely a diamond blade in the size that would fit the tool that he
intends to cut with.
Take you pick,
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-DB1041C-Premium-Segmented-Circular/dp/B000N6KW86
>
> John
>
On 3/22/2015 3:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/22/15 2:01 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/22/2015 12:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 3/22/15 12:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> OTOH if the "client" is so anal that he'll only allow loss of a kerf
>>>>> width of material, maybe he'd be better off firing the client as that
>>>>> may only be the tip of the "problem iceberg"<g>
>>>>
>>>> Seriously the request to cut dead center is not unreasonable at all.
>>>> What would be unreasonable is if the person taking the job is not
>>>> prepared to hit nails. This is not a complex job as indicated by the
>>>> OP.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Most jobs aren't complex until they get posted in here. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ROTFL You left out, until posted here AND a remedy suggested.
>
> That was the implication. :-)
>
>
Yeah. ;~)
On 3/22/2015 3:08 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Lew
> Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> You have an opportunity.
>>
>> Think I'd get a premier blade like the Forrest AKA: The Leon Special.
>>
>> Assume you are going to chip a couple of teeth as well as an obvious
>> regrind and include that in your costs as well as the initial cost of
>> the
>> blade.
>>
>> When you're done you end up with a bonus of a quality blade you
>> would not probably buy without this opportunity.
>>
>> Have fun.
>>
>> Lew
>
> A couple of blade recommendations, thanks guys.
>
> I hadn't thought of it as an opportunity, Lew. Thanks a LOT for
> shifting my mental gears. I need to think like that more.
>
> I'll go talk to the nice folks at Great Northern Saw here in ToonTown.
> I could bill the regrind to the client.
I wold absolutely bill any special purchases and or repairs to the client.
>
> And people ask me what usenet has to offer. Go figure. There's nobody
> like wreckers.
>
Dave Balderstone <[email protected]> wrote in news:210320151206128855%
[email protected]:
> I've been asked by a client to turn an 8' section of 42" wide lane into
> a pair of benches for their new mud room.
>
> I am going to have to make one 8' rip cut and two +- 21" cross cuts.
>
> I know I am going to hit more nails than I think, and I think I'm going
> to hit a LOT of nails.
>
> So the question is:
>
> What blade(s)? Should I just buy a bunch of throw-aways (where I'm
> leaning) and consider them consumables?
How thick is this? Will a 4" diamond blade in an angle
grinder get thru it? If so, that's how I'd probably
attack it - the diamond blades will cut thru anything.
John
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:2-
[email protected]:
> It is not a matter if cutting the material.
Of course it's a matter of cutting material - specifically
nails. The question posed was whether there's a blade that
will cut thru nails without harming itself, or whether to
use blades which will be destroyed by nails and treat them
as disposables.
> A diamond blade would
> likely burn the wood.
Which might or might not be an issue, depending on the
construction of the piece. The cut edges might be
hidden.
Moot point, tho, since Dave says it's too thick.
John
On 3/22/2015 9:09 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 3/22/2015 7:19 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>> On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
>>> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
[snip]
>> Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in a bowling
>> alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to center the rip cut
>> down the middle of one of the strips which might keep you clear of most
>> nails. Dimensions, you indicate, are critical yet you referred to +/-
>> 21" for the depth on that bench. 21" seems a bit deep or is this for
>> "Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
>>
>>
>>
> Regardless of how you feel about a dimension, when a customer tells you
> a dimension you don't have choice.
>
> If you want a customer to pay you, you treat him as if he is always
> right or correct him and risk loosing him.
I agree with that to a certain point. That said, I direct your
attention to Dave's original post. I understood the situation to be
that the 42" wide lane was to be ripped in half to provide for two
sections approximately 21" wide (at least that's what I took his "+ -"
to mean.
Given that the maximum width of a board comprising the lane might be
what? 1" to 1½"? Seems reasonable that he could rip down the center of
one, miss most if not all of the nails and still be within "specs"
OTOH if the "client" is so anal that he'll only allow loss of a kerf
width of material, maybe he'd be better off firing the client as that
may only be the tip of the "problem iceberg"<g>
On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 9:11:01 AM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
> Don't wait for a blade to dull or become damaged, before changing. Make 3' (maybe 4') long cuts, change blade, make another 3'-4' cut, change blade, etc.
Don't discard a changed blade. Use it again, after it cools. Discard it when it becomes too damaged or too dull, for efficient cutting.
Sonny
Cheap, disposable carbide blades. =20
Just as important, wear eye protection plus a shield, no matter what blade =
you use. Flying bits and pieces of nails and/or blade tips will definitely=
be a hazzard. Might want to wear a neck wrap and thick fabric (canvas, le=
ather) long sleeves, also.
The lanes will likely be about 3" thick. Whether maple or pine, the wood =
will be hard. Make 1/2" to 3/4" deep cuts, at a time. Don't wait for a bl=
ade to dull or become damaged, before changing. Make 3' (maybe 4') long cu=
ts, change blade, make another 3'-4' cut, change blade, etc. Longer cuts m=
ake for hot (distorted) blades, hence poor cuts (*and poor cutting). By ch=
anging blades, often, your cuts (*and cutting) will be much much better (*a=
nd much much easier). Don't try to rush the cutting/sawing, take your tim=
e.
Sonny
On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 5:21:11 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
> On 3/22/2015 3:03 PM, Sonny wrote:
>=20
> > Alls thems womens likes decoratives accents cushions.
>=20
> Surprised you had enough s'es left in that keyboard to spell your name,=
=20
> cher.
>=20
LOL.
Like a song that sticks in your head, for some reason, we had gone out to e=
at and listened to some Cajun humorists entertainers. Of the various jokes=
, etc., as if carrying on a conversation, two guys had an Abbott & Costello=
type routine. One with a heavy Cajun accent/speech; The other, as if, not=
a local. Among their conversations was the weather, medical issues, etc. =
Gusts (of wind) became gusses. Cysts became cysses. The non-local became=
confused by the Cajun's speaking, that way, and the "conversation" became =
skewered, in different "directions" aka Abbott & Costello. =20
It was a good routine and we had a good time. The s'es had stuck in my he=
ad and posting them, here, was a way of sharing ("passing a good time") tha=
t humor. =20
Beyond that, other, of the best, jokes/stories, that night, included Ti-Jac=
que going to confession (a new one for me) and Ugly Boudreaux (which I had =
heard before, but was good to hear, again.).
Sonny
On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 10:09:13 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 3/22/2015 7:19 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> > On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> >> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >>
> >> <snippage>
> >>
> >>> But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change dimensions to avoi=
d
> >>> nails.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I have enough length to cut away that I may well be able to avoid nail=
s
> >> on the cross-cuts. The rip, however, must be where it must be
> >> regardless of what metal is inside.
> >
> >
> > I think I'd be looking at a bunch of el cheapo Harbor Fright blades for
> > that job and, as you say, treat them as consumables.
> >
> > Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in a bowling
> > alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to center the rip cut
> > down the middle of one of the strips which might keep you clear of most
> > nails. Dimensions, you indicate, are critical yet you referred to +/-
> > 21" for the depth on that bench. 21" seems a bit deep or is this for
> > "Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
> >
> >
> >
> Regardless of how you feel about a dimension, when a customer tells you=
=20
> a dimension you don't have choice.
>=20
> If you want a customer to pay you, you treat him as if he is always=20
> right or correct him and risk loosing him.
Leon,
I'm really surprised to hear that, especially coming from a man of your tal=
ents.
What about "teaching moments"? I have clients that give me the equivalent o=
f "dimensions" in my business. When they are off base I gently explain to t=
hem the error of their ways. They are not paying me (or you) to blindly fol=
low their misguided instructions, they are paying me (and you) for our expe=
rtise in our field.
I have actually fired well-paying clients for not taking my advice and tryi=
ng to force me to adhere to their "dimensions". In the long run, no one is =
going to be happy if we become "Yes Men" to those using our services when t=
he client is clearly headed down the wrong path.
Granted, there are times when the dimensions must be adhered to, such as a =
bench that must fit into a specific space (or the equivalent in my business=
) but in those cases the reasons and options should be known to all parties=
up front, and in my business, put in writing.
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 13:41:24 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Dave Balderstone" wrote:
>
>> I've been asked by a client to turn an 8' section of 42" wide lane
>> into
>> a pair of benches for their new mud room.
>>
>> I am going to have to make one 8' rip cut and two +- 21" cross cuts.
>>
>> I know I am going to hit more nails than I think, and I think I'm
>> going
>> to hit a LOT of nails.
>>
>> So the question is:
>>
>> What blade(s)? Should I just buy a bunch of throw-aways (where I'm
>> leaning) and consider them consumables?
>>
>> Is there a specific type of cutting device that a local shop may
>> have?
>> I don't mind jobbing it out...
>>
>> Any and all advice, etc.,
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>You have an opportunity.
>
>Think I'd get a premier blade like the Forrest AKA: The Leon Special.
>
>Assume you are going to chip a couple of teeth as well as an obvious
>regrind and include that in your costs as well as the initial cost of
>the
>blade.
>
>When you're done you end up with a bonus of a quality blade you
>would not probably buy without this opportunity.
>
>Have fun.
>
>Lew
In a hand held circular saw a DW3191 from dewalt will do the job. It's
a 7 1/4" blade. Will likely fit table saw as well. It's called a "nail
eater" with 18 teeth. I think Pihranna makes one too.
>
>
>
>
>
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 21:31:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 3/21/2015 7:55 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Dave Balderstone <[email protected]> wrote in news:210320151206128855%
>> [email protected]:
>>
>>> I've been asked by a client to turn an 8' section of 42" wide lane into
>>> a pair of benches for their new mud room.
>>>
>>> I am going to have to make one 8' rip cut and two +- 21" cross cuts.
>>>
>>> I know I am going to hit more nails than I think, and I think I'm going
>>> to hit a LOT of nails.
>>>
>>> So the question is:
>>>
>>> What blade(s)? Should I just buy a bunch of throw-aways (where I'm
>>> leaning) and consider them consumables?
>>
>> How thick is this? Will a 4" diamond blade in an angle
>> grinder get thru it? If so, that's how I'd probably
>> attack it - the diamond blades will cut thru anything.
>>
>> John
>>
>
>It is not a matter if cutting the material. A diamond blade would
>likely burn the wood.
haw about a "cold cut" saw???
On 3/22/2015 3:03 PM, Sonny wrote:
> Alls thems womens likes decoratives accents cushions.
Surprised you had enough s'es left in that keyboard to spell your name,
cher.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 3/22/2015 4:28 PM, Max wrote:
> On 3/22/2015 8:09 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> If you want a customer to pay you, you treat him as if he is always
>> right or correct him and risk loosing him.
>
> Right. And when a customer gets loose there might be no catching him
> again. ;-)
It is all part of running a business. A customer that gets loose
typically does not give you a good referral either.
On 3/21/2015 2:06 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> I've been asked by a client to turn an 8' section of 42" wide lane into
> a pair of benches for their new mud room.
>
> I am going to have to make one 8' rip cut and two +- 21" cross cuts.
>
> I know I am going to hit more nails than I think, and I think I'm going
> to hit a LOT of nails.
>
> So the question is:
>
> What blade(s)? Should I just buy a bunch of throw-aways (where I'm
> leaning) and consider them consumables?
>
> Is there a specific type of cutting device that a local shop may have?
> I don't mind jobbing it out...
>
> Any and all advice, etc.,
>
> djb
>
I've got one of these:
http://www.zircon.com/products/metal_m40.html
It would find the nails pretty precisely. Whether or not it's possible
to avoid them once they are marked is a different question.
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On 3/22/15 12:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>>
>> OTOH if the "client" is so anal that he'll only allow loss of a kerf
>> width of material, maybe he'd be better off firing the client as that
>> may only be the tip of the "problem iceberg"<g>
>
> Seriously the request to cut dead center is not unreasonable at all.
> What would be unreasonable is if the person taking the job is not
> prepared to hit nails. This is not a complex job as indicated by the OP.
>
Most jobs aren't complex until they get posted in here. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 3/22/15 2:01 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 3/22/2015 12:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 3/22/15 12:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> OTOH if the "client" is so anal that he'll only allow loss of a kerf
>>>> width of material, maybe he'd be better off firing the client as that
>>>> may only be the tip of the "problem iceberg"<g>
>>>
>>> Seriously the request to cut dead center is not unreasonable at all.
>>> What would be unreasonable is if the person taking the job is not
>>> prepared to hit nails. This is not a complex job as indicated by the
>>> OP.
>>>
>>
>> Most jobs aren't complex until they get posted in here. :-)
>>
>>
>
> ROTFL You left out, until posted here AND a remedy suggested.
That was the implication. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Leon wrote:
>
> BUT Bowling alley lanes typically don't have a lot of debris and you
> will likely not encounter anything harmful to your saw as far as the
> dust that is created. IMHO
>
> I actually watch a video of a bowling alley being refurbished and they
> were using what appeared to be a DeWalt circular saw for cutting out
> the pin setting section of the alley. I don't recall seeing anything
> covering the motor.
Makes sense - circular saws are, after all - designed for cutting... wood!
I think this particular suggestion is one of those areas where this group is
so good at over engineering a "problem" that doesn't really exist.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 3/23/2015 4:49 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> BUT Bowling alley lanes typically don't have a lot of debris and you
>> will likely not encounter anything harmful to your saw as far as the
>> dust that is created. IMHO
>>
>> I actually watch a video of a bowling alley being refurbished and they
>> were using what appeared to be a DeWalt circular saw for cutting out
>> the pin setting section of the alley. I don't recall seeing anything
>> covering the motor.
>
> Makes sense - circular saws are, after all - designed for cutting... wood!
> I think this particular suggestion is one of those areas where this group is
> so good at over engineering a "problem" that doesn't really exist.
>
Uh huh but everyone is entitled to their thoughts unless they differ
from mine. LOL
On 3/22/2015 7:19 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
>> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>> <snippage>
>>
>>> But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change dimensions to avoid
>>> nails.
>>>
>>
>> I have enough length to cut away that I may well be able to avoid nails
>> on the cross-cuts. The rip, however, must be where it must be
>> regardless of what metal is inside.
>
>
> I think I'd be looking at a bunch of el cheapo Harbor Fright blades for
> that job and, as you say, treat them as consumables.
>
> Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in a bowling
> alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to center the rip cut
> down the middle of one of the strips which might keep you clear of most
> nails. Dimensions, you indicate, are critical yet you referred to +/-
> 21" for the depth on that bench. 21" seems a bit deep or is this for
> "Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
>
>
>
Regardless of how you feel about a dimension, when a customer tells you
a dimension you don't have choice.
If you want a customer to pay you, you treat him as if he is always
right or correct him and risk loosing him.
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 07:31:38 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 10:09:13 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/22/2015 7:19 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>> > On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> >> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
>> >> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> <snippage>
>> >>
>> >>> But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change dimensions to avoid
>> >>> nails.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I have enough length to cut away that I may well be able to avoid nails
>> >> on the cross-cuts. The rip, however, must be where it must be
>> >> regardless of what metal is inside.
>> >
>> >
>> > I think I'd be looking at a bunch of el cheapo Harbor Fright blades for
>> > that job and, as you say, treat them as consumables.
>> >
>> > Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in a bowling
>> > alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to center the rip cut
>> > down the middle of one of the strips which might keep you clear of most
>> > nails. Dimensions, you indicate, are critical yet you referred to +/-
>> > 21" for the depth on that bench. 21" seems a bit deep or is this for
>> > "Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> Regardless of how you feel about a dimension, when a customer tells you
>> a dimension you don't have choice.
>>
>> If you want a customer to pay you, you treat him as if he is always
>> right or correct him and risk loosing him.
>
>Leon,
>
>I'm really surprised to hear that, especially coming from a man of your talents.
>
>What about "teaching moments"? I have clients that give me the equivalent of "dimensions" in my business. When they are off base I gently explain to them the error of their ways. They are not paying me (or you) to blindly follow their misguided instructions, they are paying me (and you) for our expertise in our field.
>
>I have actually fired well-paying clients for not taking my advice and trying to force me to adhere to their "dimensions". In the long run, no one is going to be happy if we become "Yes Men" to those using our services when the client is clearly headed down the wrong path.
>
>Granted, there are times when the dimensions must be adhered to, such as a bench that must fit into a specific space (or the equivalent in my business) but in those cases the reasons and options should be known to all parties up front, and in my business, put in writing.
I generally just ask the question- "are you SURE that's what you
want?" and "how did you arrive at that specification". If they know
what they want and why, I do it their way. If they are not sure, we
work together on the design and spec., to make sure they get what
thwey want, not what they just kinda sorta thought the wanted from
what a friend said, or what they thought kinda-sorta-mabee looked
right.
On 3/22/2015 1:00 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/22/15 12:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> OTOH if the "client" is so anal that he'll only allow loss of a kerf
>>>> width of material, maybe he'd be better off firing the client as that
>>>> may only be the tip of the "problem iceberg"<g>
>>>
>>> Seriously the request to cut dead center is not unreasonable at all.
>>> What would be unreasonable is if the person taking the job is not
>>> prepared to hit nails. This is not a complex job as indicated by the OP.
>>>
>>
>> Most jobs aren't complex until they get posted in here. :-)
>
> Nailed it!
Add ironically, had it not been nailed you would not have the nail
issue. :~)
On 3/22/2015 12:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/22/15 12:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>
>>> OTOH if the "client" is so anal that he'll only allow loss of a kerf
>>> width of material, maybe he'd be better off firing the client as that
>>> may only be the tip of the "problem iceberg"<g>
>>
>> Seriously the request to cut dead center is not unreasonable at all.
>> What would be unreasonable is if the person taking the job is not
>> prepared to hit nails. This is not a complex job as indicated by the OP.
>>
>
> Most jobs aren't complex until they get posted in here. :-)
>
>
ROTFL You left out, until posted here AND a remedy suggested.
On 3/22/2015 12:53 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 3/22/2015 7:19 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>> On 3/21/2015 9:20 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
>>>> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snippage>
>>>>
>>>>> But those don't move nails. ;~) You don't change dimensions to avoid
>>>>> nails.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have enough length to cut away that I may well be able to avoid nails
>>>> on the cross-cuts. The rip, however, must be where it must be
>>>> regardless of what metal is inside.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I'd be looking at a bunch of el cheapo Harbor Fright blades for
>>> that job and, as you say, treat them as consumables.
>>>
>>> Trying to recall just how wide those strips of rock maple in a bowling
>>> alley are. Seems you might have a bit of room to center the rip cut
>>> down the middle of one of the strips which might keep you clear of most
>>> nails. Dimensions, you indicate, are critical yet you referred to +/-
>>> 21" for the depth on that bench. 21" seems a bit deep or is this for
>>> "Fatty Arbuckle?"<g>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Regardless of how you feel about a dimension, when a customer tells you
>> a dimension you don't have choice.
>>
>> If you want a customer to pay you, you treat him as if he is always
>> right or correct him and risk loosing him.
>
> I discussed it with the client, and she has legitimate reasons for
> wanting it wide. The fact I disagree with her has no bearing on doing
> the job. It's purely a matter of preference.
>
> And if she agrees in hindsight I was right, I'll likely get the job
> trimming it back. So it's a win/win.
>
> ;-)
>
There you go!
On 3/22/2015 12:59 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>> OTOH if the "client" is so anal that he'll only allow loss of a kerf
>>> width of material, maybe he'd be better off firing the client as that
>>> may only be the tip of the "problem iceberg"<g>
>>
>> Seriously the request to cut dead center is not unreasonable at all.
>> What would be unreasonable is if the person taking the job is not
>> prepared to hit nails. This is not a complex job as indicated by the OP.
>
> Not complex at all. I find it very amusing how quickly folks try to
> read the mind of someone (my client) they really know nothing about.
>
> The job is simple. The client has reasons for the width that are
> legitimate, even if I disagree from a taste perspective.
>
> Dunno how a simple question about cutting embedded nails became a
> discussion about firing the client, but randomness, thy name is usenet!
>
> rotflmao
>
;~)