Greetings,
I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?
I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.
Regards,
Mike
Why are we calling them "hybrids?"
"Chrisgiraffe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Gus wrote:
>
>>
>> Yet another person with absolutely NO knowledge of the Craftsman
>> hybrids.
>>
>> They are wonderful saws that compete favorably with anything out there.
>>
>> They are built by Orion, which is composed of former Delta folks.
>>
>> I believe the only plastic bits on mine are the handwheels and the
>> motor door.
>>
>> Check out the 22104,22114 and 22124.
>>
>> You'll be pleasantly surprised.
>
> Hi Gus. I think you're correct in assuming (though it is an
> assumption) that I don't know everything about the Craftsman hybrids.
> To be honest, I've been burned too many times by Sears to really
> consider their hybrids. When I started woodworking I purchased nearly
> everything in their mid-price range and every single tool I bought
> turned out to be either poorly made or low on features compared to
> other makes for the same price. You mention that Orion makes their
> hybrids. I understand Sears tools are made by different manufacturers,
> even their current line of table saws have differing manufacturers.
> I've read many arguements that some manufacturers stink and others
> simply get bad specs/high tolerances from buyers. Again, my feeling is
> that if I'm burned once by a company I'm hesitant to go back for
> seconds. Perhaps the Sears hybrids deserve a second look but by the
> same token perhaps Sears should strive for better quality along every
> tool line or not post such silly things as horsepower ratings in huge
> lettering on their saws, shop vacs and other power equipment. Perhaps
> they should also try to get people who've actually used woodworking
> tools to sell them. In fact, perhaps they should get woodworkers to
> consult with the purchasers before they market their tools- call that a
> crazy idea but it's certainly helped build other woodworking tool
> companies.
>
> Now, contrast Sears with my experience at a place I just went to
> yesterday in Atlanta- Redmond and Sons Machinery (a sister store of
> Rockler). They carried a range of machinery that would make you wet
> your pants if all you've ever been exposed to is Sears, Lowes and Home
> Depot. Strangely, however, the prices were still reasonable, and the
> staff knew exactly what they were selling. What's more is you could
> tell that every tool they sold was rock solid. They didn't carry
> anything that looked like it might break down in a year or two. No
> Ryobi, no Black and Decker, no Craftsman. I had that feeling I once
> had as a kid when, after years of my parents bringing me to
> Sears/Target/Wal-Mart/Penney's for BMX bikes then they finally bring me
> to a reputable bike store and I saw the GT's, Diamon Backs and
> Mongooses. It was a whole new world.
>
> Now I've always read the suggestion that people should 'pick up a
> unisaw locally on the cheap' and recognize whole heartedly that many
> towns simply do not have such a great secondary tool market. My own
> that I currently live in (Columbus, GA) surely doesn't. But odds are
> every town in the US is probably a few hours drive at most to a larger
> city that does have the great deals and great stores. If you've
> settled on Sears you'd kick yourself in the butt later if you ever
> walked into a dedicated machinery/woodworking store and saw some of the
> things you can get. That's the experience I had with Sear's mid-range
> tools just compared with my local Lowes and Home Depot. After visiting
> Redmonds in Atlanta I can confidently say anyone would regret buying
> even the larger power tools from Sears if they took the time to visit a
> real dedicated machinery/woodworking store in a larger city.
>
Mike Howland wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
> I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
> and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
> contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
>
> Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
> on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
> another manufacturer?
>
> I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
Check out this 'modofied' contractor saw from Jet. The dust collection
is supposed to be much better than a standard contractor saw. I don't
have one so can't say.
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/shop/index.cfm?navPage=4&iid=6056005
Mike Howland wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
> I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
> and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
> contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
>
> Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
> on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
> another manufacturer?
>
> I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.
>
Do yourself a favor.
Go to Sears and look CLOSELY at the 22104, 22114 and 22124 saws.
Wonderful, well-performing saws built by Orion, which is run by
ex-Delta folks.
These saws can often be had at deep discounts.
I've had a 22114 for a few years now and couldn't be happier.
Good Luck
Ditto. I have the 22114.
Gus wrote:
> Mike Howland wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
> > I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
> > and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
> > contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
> >
> > Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
> > on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
> > another manufacturer?
> >
> > I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.
> >
>
>
> Do yourself a favor.
>
> Go to Sears and look CLOSELY at the 22104, 22114 and 22124 saws.
>
>
> Wonderful, well-performing saws built by Orion, which is run by
> ex-Delta folks.
>
> These saws can often be had at deep discounts.
>
> I've had a 22114 for a few years now and couldn't be happier.
>
> Good Luck
Mike Howland wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
> I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
> and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
> contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
>
> Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
> on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
> another manufacturer?
>
> I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
For 1/2 the price you can get a used unisaw that's much more sturdy and
has a 110/220 volt motor. But if you have the extra bucks to spend on
a lesser piece of equipment go for it. Plus the new saw will be more
pretty and shiney and the wood does care.
AM Wood
Mike Howland wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
> I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
As usual, A.M. Wood wrote:
"For 1/2 the price you can get a used unisaw that's much more sturdy
and
has a 110/220 volt motor. But if you have the extra bucks to spend on
a lesser piece of equipment go for it. Plus the new saw will bions e
more
pretty and shiney and the wood does care."
If you will use the advanced search at the top of the page and enter
"hybrid" you will find endless opinions and discussions of these saws.
My advice is find out where A.M.Woods resides and go there immediately!
They have a large supply of people begging to get rid of their unisaws
cheaply there.
RayV wrote:
>
> Check out this 'modofied' contractor saw from Jet. The dust collection
> is supposed to be much better than a standard contractor saw. I don't
> have one so can't say.
>
> http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/shop/index.cfm?navPage=4&iid=6056005
I just bought this saw last month and I couldn't be happier. I got a
pretty good price on it ($399.99) at Woodcraft. The saw is sweet but I
have to say I am going to string a 220 line and convert the motor to
220 as sson as I can. This thing really sucks the juice. That said,
it works like a charm with my shop vac hooked up to it.
[email protected] wrote:
>
> As usual, A.M. Wood wrote:
> "For 1/2 the price you can get a used unisaw that's much more sturdy
> and
> has a 110/220 volt motor. But if you have the extra bucks to spend on
> a lesser piece of equipment go for it. Plus the new saw will bions e
> more
> pretty and shiney and the wood does care."
>
> If you will use the advanced search at the top of the page and enter
> "hybrid" you will find endless opinions and discussions of these saws.
> My advice is find out where A.M.Woods resides and go there immediately!
> They have a large supply of people begging to get rid of their unisaws
> cheaply there.
Who peed in your cheerios this morning? The man asked for
opinions/advice and I provided mine. My advice is that the current
stuff coming out of chaiwan with a Delta label isn't worth buying.
Older used equipment, even at 75% of the retail price of a new machine,
is a much better value because the manufacturer's have been cuting
quality to keep costs down.
A.M. Wood
Patriarch wrote:
> "A.M. Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > For 1/2 the price you can get a used unisaw that's much more sturdy
> > and has a 110/220 volt motor.
>
> I wasn't aware of a 110v Unisaw. Enlightenment, please.
>
> Patriarch,
> who paid a bunch to rewire for 220v and other stuff...
Not sure what you want to see for proof other than the hundreds of
thousands of unisaws made with IR 110/220 motors.
Mike Howland wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> Strictly speaking I'm not limited to 115v... My Oneida dust collector is
> wired for 220. I just wanted to avoid running a new line. I have a
> dedicated 20a 115v line I use for my tablesaw and wanted to keep exploiting
> it since it's already there.
>
> My big concern is the dust collection. I've found my contractor saw to have
> enough cutting power (Craftsman model 113.299410, contractor saw). The
> open back makes it messy.. even with the DC pulling air.
>
> The hybrids seem to address this concern... at least somewhat. I was just
> curious about what folks thought. The hybrids also seem to have a slightly
> smaller footprint. I *am* somewhat limited in space so a full-blown unisaw
> is out of the question, I'm afraid and if the hybrid was slightly smaller,
> all the more room for me in the shop.
>
> Thanks to all the posters!
> I appreciate the feedback,
>
> Regards,
> Mike
Regarding the "footprint." The table top and fence will be larger than
the base of the saw. A table that is not very deep is going to make
cutting stock difficult. The length of the fence is independent of
the saw when your comparing a cabinet saw to a hybrid to a cabinet saw.
AM Wood
> Who peed in your cheerios this morning? The man asked for
> opinions/advice and I provided mine. My advice is that the current
> stuff coming out of chaiwan with a Delta label isn't worth buying.
> Older used equipment, even at 75% of the retail price of a new machine,
> is a much better value because the manufacturer's have been cuting
> quality to keep costs down.
>
>
> A.M. Wood
As you suggest I waited 8 months early this year diligently searching
the Atlanta, Jacksonville,Savannah, and Charleston SC Craig's lists,
tool auctions, and newspapers for used Unisaws. I found one 3 phase
unit and one in several baskets covered with four coats of paint
applied with a brush. I finally purchased a new Steel City hybrid with
3HP 220V motor and am so glad I did. It's quality is why the current
Fine Woodworking Tools and Shop issue recommends the Sears/Steel City
Orion table saws for their under 5K workshop. Better yet, it's
available right now. Now you could save some poor guy from having to
settle for a crappy quality "chaiwan" saw by putting your old Unisaw on
the market right now. How about it? Let us know when it's listed at a
good price...one we can gloat about. Too many seekers chasing too few
Unisaws is poor advice.
Hello Mike,
If I may throw two cents worth in, may I suggest you rethink your
situation. You said you're considering a hybrid just because of
footprint. It sounds to me like your real issue is not so much the saw
base as the table top. Table tops are usually larger than the base and
most are pretty close to the same before extensions unless you
downgrade to a benchtop.
If you haven't already, consider the average lengths of the wood(s)
you're working with. If it's plywood sheets perhaps you can get by
with some kind of vertical sheet-cutting rig. If you're cutting long
stretches for cabinets then I'm not sure how you will work around
extension tables without maneuvering your existing (if you have them)
work tables. Some people utilize the table saw itself as a workbench
in crowded spaces by placing a top over it when not in use. You can
make a creative use of tables in conjuntion with your saw so that you
are not dependent on permanent extension wings but you'll run into
issues when you want to use your fence on them if they're not exactly
the same depth as your table saw and you can't get them aligned
properly. Again, the size of the wood you commonly work with will
dictate a lot of what you can and can't get away with.
As for dust collection, a cabinet without any suction on it is going to
shoot dust in your face and soon will cloud up your basement. At some
point you have to address that and a cabinet isn't much better than a
nylon bag with a string tied around the dust chute.
As for table saws, I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think
their brand is the best. I used to own a Craftsman and I believe that
what they market as 'contractor saws' are nothing more than benchtops
in a contractor saw coat. I've got the Delta 36-982 contractor saw
(comes w/ Biesemeyer fence and side extension table). I don't think
anything Craftsman sells holds a candle to it, but, as you see, I have
my preference too. Delta considers it their 'contractor saw'. If you
get a chance drop in at Lowe's and have a look. One particular problem
I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
(e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.). I just think for the same
money you get more from Delta and Jet. I'm sure there are hordes ready
to pull their teeth out that I didn't mention Steel City, Powermatic
and General. Well, when I get the money to just go hog wild, perhaps-
meanwhile I'm big on Delta (non-shopmaster) and Jet. I think they both
offer great all around value (quality, durability, features, customer
service) for the money. But, again, I have a hard time seeing the saw
as much the main issue as table space and the size of wood you work
with. If you're limited with space and moving from a Sears contractor
to a hybrid I think you'll either have the same issue or it will be
worse since the hybrid is likely to be as large or larger than a Sears
contractor. If anything I would consider finding a quality benchtop
(likely Bosch or Dewalt) and using benches in some configuration as
make shift extension tables if space were the issue.
If anyone doesn't like my Delta/Jet suggestion please feel free to ship
me the best Table Saw of your choice and I'll be happy to give it a
try. :-)
On Dec 14, 3:20 am, "Chrisgiraffe" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello Mike,
> If I may throw two cents worth in, may I suggest you rethink your
snip
If anything I would consider finding a quality benchtop
> (likely Bosch or Dewalt) and using benches in some configuration as
> make shift extension tables if space were the issue.
>
> If anyone doesn't like my Delta/Jet suggestion please feel free to ship
> me the best Table Saw of your choice and I'll be happy to give it a
> try. :-)
May I suggest Grizzly deserves a look? I am very pleased with my G1023
cabinet and it was a smokin deal a few years ago, and a buddy got the
contractor model with the aluminum fence w/T slot in it and he is super
pleased, he built an entire kitchen cabinet set with it, he's
unbeliveably anal and had no complaints at all. It seems that many of
these units look about the same (General, Jet, Grizzly, etc) and I
wouldn't doubt they have some common relationship back China or
thereabouts where nearly all of this stuff comes from. Good luck. I
like having a 220 3 horse saw, although its overkill 90% of the time.
Hello again,
I'd mentioned creative uses of table tops/work surfaces in an earlier
post to help your situation. Here's a good example of how one author
solved the same problem. As you see, this plan takes a decent benchtop
model saw (Porter Cable), incorporates a router into the extension
table, makes use of a very good fence (the Biesemeyer) and still
provides storage underneath, while putting the entire thing on wheels
to allow for a variety of shop set ups:
http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/TblSawCab.html
Hope this inspires a few good ideas. If not, they have a link to the
plans. I strongly considered this set up myself but I have enough room
for a decent contractor's saw. I read the reviews on the Delta you
mentioned on Amazon. Those reviews really are a mixed bag. Most sound
like they had a couple of quality control issues involved with a new
product roll out. If anything, I know from my own experience Delta has
outstanding customer saws. The kinds of issues the reviewers came
across can really happen with any saw- particularly a new model. The
important thing is whether you can actually talk to someone who will
fix it or whether you get a website that says you're better off going
to a local machine shop or sending the whole thing back. I would still
put my money on a Delta over a similar costing model any day-
especially a Craftsman.
Mike Howland wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
> I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
> and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
> contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
>
> Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
> on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
> another manufacturer?
>
> I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
Chrisgiraffe wrote:
>
> One particular problem
> I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
> tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
> (e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).
Interesting. Cheap toolmakers using non-standard parts in their
machines. Some of the trolls who frequent this newsgroup assert this
is absolutely not true. Why those fools even make fun of people who
would even think this. Of course, maybe they'd care to explain how to
get a standard miter gauge into a crapsman miter slot.
AM Wood
A.M. Wood wrote:
> Chrisgiraffe wrote:
> >
> > One particular problem
> > I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
> > tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
> > (e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).
>
>
> Interesting. Cheap toolmakers using non-standard parts in their
> machines. Some of the trolls who frequent this newsgroup assert this
> is absolutely not true. Why those fools even make fun of people who
> would even think this. Of course, maybe they'd care to explain how to
> get a standard miter gauge into a crapsman miter slot.
>
>
> AM Wood
I surely don't want to make fun of you (you might not sell me your
Unisaw for a good price in the near future) but this foolish troll uses
his Steel City/Crapsman miter gauge in Lee Valley tracks
(http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=45161&cat=3,43576,52799)
which I added to my newly built outfeed table. My miter gauge is 3/4" x
3/8"...same size as the Lee Valley, Woodcraft. etc. miter tracks. Is
the Delta miter gauge not also 3/4 x 3/8? My old Craftsman contractor
saw also had a 3/4 x 3/8 miter. Well, if I'm a non-standard fool I must
be in good company ... might ask Robin Lee why his miter tracks allow
non-standard junk to slide in them.
[email protected] wrote:
> A.M. Wood wrote:
> > Chrisgiraffe wrote:
> > >
> > > One particular problem
> > > I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
> > > tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
> > > (e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).
> >
> >
> > Interesting. Cheap toolmakers using non-standard parts in their
> > machines. Some of the trolls who frequent this newsgroup assert this
> > is absolutely not true. Why those fools even make fun of people who
> > would even think this. Of course, maybe they'd care to explain how to
> > get a standard miter gauge into a crapsman miter slot.
> >
> >
> > AM Wood
>
> I surely don't want to make fun of you (you might not sell me your
> Unisaw for a good price in the near future) but this foolish troll uses
> his Steel City/Crapsman miter gauge in Lee Valley tracks
> (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=45161&cat=3,43576,52799)
> which I added to my newly built outfeed table. My miter gauge is 3/4" x
> 3/8"...same size as the Lee Valley, Woodcraft. etc. miter tracks. Is
> the Delta miter gauge not also 3/4 x 3/8? My old Craftsman contractor
> saw also had a 3/4 x 3/8 miter. Well, if I'm a non-standard fool I must
> be in good company ... might ask Robin Lee why his miter tracks allow
> non-standard junk to slide in them.
Glad your miter gauge is 3/4 x 3/8. The chap who wrote the message I
quoted however didn't seem to be as lucky with the slot on his crapsman
saw. He's also neither the first nor the only person to have had this
"issue" with crapsman products. I sure as hell know I had similar
issues with non-standard components on the garbage i purchased from
ryobi.
No need to worry that offending me would in any way influence my
willingness to sell you anything I may have on the market. While I
don't plan on selling the saw any time soon, if I do my only concern is
going to be the color of your money.
Picked up a Delta Heavy Duty shaper last week. Paid $320. Wonder how
much the shiney new stuff comming out of chaiwan is running these days.
Was a tough haul though. Unfortunately there weren't any plastic
parts to lighten the load, just plain old-fashioned steel and cast
iron. Oh well.
AM Wood
Chrisgiraffe wrote:
>
> As for table saws, I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think
> their brand is the best. I used to own a Craftsman and I believe that
> what they market as 'contractor saws' are nothing more than benchtops
> in a contractor saw coat. I've got the Delta 36-982 contractor saw
> (comes w/ Biesemeyer fence and side extension table). I don't think
> anything Craftsman sells holds a candle to it, but, as you see, I have
> my preference too.
Yet another person with absolutely NO knowledge of the Craftsman
hybrids.
They are wonderful saws that compete favorably with anything out there.
They are built by Orion, which is composed of former Delta folks.
I believe the only plastic bits on mine are the handwheels and the
motor door.
Check out the 22104,22114 and 22124.
You'll be pleasantly surprised.
I tried about six months ago to order a 22124. They said it would be
delivered within seven days. On day eight, I called to find out what
the problem was. The order had been cancelled. They didn't know who
cancelled it or why. About a week later, I got a bill for it anyway.
They cancelled the saw but not the bill. Bit of a hassle getting that
straitened out. I tried ordering the same saw again last week. Again,
they cancelled my order but this time they at least sent me an email
saying so. They said something about getting more orders than they
anticipated. If they actually do sell these saws, I don't know where.
BTW, they still advertise this saw on their website as being available
in my area.
Gus wrote:
> Chrisgiraffe wrote:
> >
>
>
> > As for table saws, I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think
> > their brand is the best. I used to own a Craftsman and I believe that
> > what they market as 'contractor saws' are nothing more than benchtops
> > in a contractor saw coat. I've got the Delta 36-982 contractor saw
> > (comes w/ Biesemeyer fence and side extension table). I don't think
> > anything Craftsman sells holds a candle to it, but, as you see, I have
> > my preference too.
>
> Yet another person with absolutely NO knowledge of the Craftsman
> hybrids.
>
> They are wonderful saws that compete favorably with anything out there.
>
> They are built by Orion, which is composed of former Delta folks.
>
> I believe the only plastic bits on mine are the handwheels and the
> motor door.
>
> Check out the 22104,22114 and 22124.
>
> You'll be pleasantly surprised.
Gus wrote:
>
> Yet another person with absolutely NO knowledge of the Craftsman
> hybrids.
>
> They are wonderful saws that compete favorably with anything out there.
>
> They are built by Orion, which is composed of former Delta folks.
>
> I believe the only plastic bits on mine are the handwheels and the
> motor door.
>
> Check out the 22104,22114 and 22124.
>
> You'll be pleasantly surprised.
Hi Gus. I think you're correct in assuming (though it is an
assumption) that I don't know everything about the Craftsman hybrids.
To be honest, I've been burned too many times by Sears to really
consider their hybrids. When I started woodworking I purchased nearly
everything in their mid-price range and every single tool I bought
turned out to be either poorly made or low on features compared to
other makes for the same price. You mention that Orion makes their
hybrids. I understand Sears tools are made by different manufacturers,
even their current line of table saws have differing manufacturers.
I've read many arguements that some manufacturers stink and others
simply get bad specs/high tolerances from buyers. Again, my feeling is
that if I'm burned once by a company I'm hesitant to go back for
seconds. Perhaps the Sears hybrids deserve a second look but by the
same token perhaps Sears should strive for better quality along every
tool line or not post such silly things as horsepower ratings in huge
lettering on their saws, shop vacs and other power equipment. Perhaps
they should also try to get people who've actually used woodworking
tools to sell them. In fact, perhaps they should get woodworkers to
consult with the purchasers before they market their tools- call that a
crazy idea but it's certainly helped build other woodworking tool
companies.
Now, contrast Sears with my experience at a place I just went to
yesterday in Atlanta- Redmond and Sons Machinery (a sister store of
Rockler). They carried a range of machinery that would make you wet
your pants if all you've ever been exposed to is Sears, Lowes and Home
Depot. Strangely, however, the prices were still reasonable, and the
staff knew exactly what they were selling. What's more is you could
tell that every tool they sold was rock solid. They didn't carry
anything that looked like it might break down in a year or two. No
Ryobi, no Black and Decker, no Craftsman. I had that feeling I once
had as a kid when, after years of my parents bringing me to
Sears/Target/Wal-Mart/Penney's for BMX bikes then they finally bring me
to a reputable bike store and I saw the GT's, Diamon Backs and
Mongooses. It was a whole new world.
Now I've always read the suggestion that people should 'pick up a
unisaw locally on the cheap' and recognize whole heartedly that many
towns simply do not have such a great secondary tool market. My own
that I currently live in (Columbus, GA) surely doesn't. But odds are
every town in the US is probably a few hours drive at most to a larger
city that does have the great deals and great stores. If you've
settled on Sears you'd kick yourself in the butt later if you ever
walked into a dedicated machinery/woodworking store and saw some of the
things you can get. That's the experience I had with Sear's mid-range
tools just compared with my local Lowes and Home Depot. After visiting
Redmonds in Atlanta I can confidently say anyone would regret buying
even the larger power tools from Sears if they took the time to visit a
real dedicated machinery/woodworking store in a larger city.
Chrisgiraffe wrote:
<snip>
> Redmonds in Atlanta I can confidently say anyone would regret buying
> even the larger power tools from Sears if they took the time to visit a
> real dedicated machinery/woodworking store in a larger city.
I've visited them all at one time or another.
For the quality/cost ratio, the Sears hybrids can't be beat.
Yes, I looked at Delta, Grizzly, General, etc,etc.........
I'm completely satisfied with my saw.
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:28:23 GMT, Mike Howland
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I know I'm late to the thread, but this is new information. <G>
The FWW that arrived in my mailbox yesterday had a very favorable
"first look" mini-review of a new Hitachi hybrid cabinet saw. The
article stated the saw should sell ~ $1000.
FWW has the specs online:
<http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=28011>
It looks nice!
"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 20:24:45 GMT, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>I am not sure about the Delta but many Hybrids require Hybrid Accessories.
>>Something to think about when buying.
>>
>
> What are you talking about? The first thing I did with my hybrid from
> General was buy a JessEm miter gauge. It's works just fine. Nothing
> "hybrid" about that miter gauge.
Reread what I said.
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:53:00 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Does that new Hitachi saw look alien? ;~)
>
Surprisingly, no!
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:28:23 GMT, Mike Howland
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
>I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
>and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
>contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
>
>Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
>on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
>another manufacturer?
>
>I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.
>
>Regards,
>Mike
FWIW, I bought a General 50-220C M1 during Woodcraft's 10% (or more)
off sale last September. I did compare with the Delta 36-717. The
Woodcraft guys said they sold more of that model than any other.
However, in my opinion, the General is better.
Yes, it's a hybrid. About $850 on sale. With a Biesemeyer clone
fence. So far it's great. It replaced a 10" Craftsman contractors
saw with all the usual mods - fence, belt, pulleys, insert.
Smaller footprint - yes. But the top takes up just as much room. In
fact, I built an extension wing to hang on the right side. In my
studio, I use the tablesaws top for work other than sawing. My studio
is small.
Considering that I got along o.k. with the power of the Craftsman
(nothing to write home about) the 2hp motor the General comes with is
marvelous! But more power was something I'd wanted for a long time,
but I couldn't justify a new saw to wifey solely on that. This fall
it became apparent that dust collection was going to be necessary and
that provided the final reason to buy a new saw.
There isn't a darn thing to complain about with this saw. It's
powerful enough, it's pretty good on dust collection, 'cept dust still
comes off the blade on the top. I gotta buy a shark guard yet to pull
dust from the topside. But that'll be true for any tablesaw.
BTW, I had no trouble selling my old Craftsman saw. It appears that
if the saw is at all any good, there's buyers lined up out the door
and around the block to get one. In light of that, good luck holding
out for a used cabinet saw.
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 20:24:45 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Mike Howland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
>> I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
>> and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
>> contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
>>
>> Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem
>> mixed
>> on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
>> another manufacturer?
>>
>> I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without
>> success.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>
>I am not sure about the Delta but many Hybrids require Hybrid Accessories.
>Something to think about when buying.
>
What are you talking about? The first thing I did with my hybrid from
General was buy a JessEm miter gauge. It's works just fine. Nothing
"hybrid" about that miter gauge.
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:02:22 GMT, Mike Howland
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I have no experience with Hitachi... folks seem to like them.
I think they're probably like most other "pro" brands... Many good
tools, some great, a few no so great.
Let us know what you find out.
"resrfglc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%RYgh.6151$hy6.5598@trnddc05...
> Why are we calling them "hybrids?"
Because their design is basically brand new. New within the last 6-8
years. IIRC DeWalt was the first. They some times look like a regular
cabinet saw but typically have the guts and the power of a contractors saw.
Some have propriatary accessories, miter gauges and fences.
"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I read it. I don't see why any hybrid would require any different
> accessories from any other saw, contractor's or cabinet, as you say.
>
I don't either but the original DeWalts came with a fence that you could not
change out. Some used different sized miter slots.
B A R R Y wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:28:23 GMT, Mike Howland
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Greetings,
>>
>>I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
>
> I know I'm late to the thread, but this is new information. <G>
>
> The FWW that arrived in my mailbox yesterday had a very favorable
> "first look" mini-review of a new Hitachi hybrid cabinet saw. The
> article stated the saw should sell ~ $1000.
>
> FWW has the specs online:
>
<http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=28011>
>
>
> It looks nice!
Barry,
I read that review in FWW with intrest also. I found one review on the web
that the author claimed it was a bit under powered when compared to other
saws of the same type but it's definitely on my candidate list.
I have no experience with Hitachi... folks seem to like them.
Mike
I got a canvas bag from Harbor Fright for $5 and added snaps to saw and bag
for about three dollars. I have to empty it, of course, but it does collect
lots of saw dust!
If you can get a "collar" sized to fit your shop vac, add it to the bottom
of the bag (its the weight,, dear) and you can suck the dust out of it (next
project).
Much cheaper than a new saw if the old one cuts well enough for you!
"Gus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike Howland wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
>> I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
>> and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
>> contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
>>
>> Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem
>> mixed
>> on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
>> another manufacturer?
>>
>> I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without
>> success.
>>
>
>
> Do yourself a favor.
>
> Go to Sears and look CLOSELY at the 22104, 22114 and 22124 saws.
>
>
> Wonderful, well-performing saws built by Orion, which is run by
> ex-Delta folks.
>
> These saws can often be had at deep discounts.
>
> I've had a 22114 for a few years now and couldn't be happier.
>
> Good Luck
>
Stoutman wrote:
>
>>I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
>
> Just curious. Why are you limited to 115V?
>
>
Greetings!
Strictly speaking I'm not limited to 115v... My Oneida dust collector is
wired for 220. I just wanted to avoid running a new line. I have a
dedicated 20a 115v line I use for my tablesaw and wanted to keep exploiting
it since it's already there.
My big concern is the dust collection. I've found my contractor saw to have
enough cutting power (Craftsman model 113.299410, contractor saw). The
open back makes it messy.. even with the DC pulling air.
The hybrids seem to address this concern... at least somewhat. I was just
curious about what folks thought. The hybrids also seem to have a slightly
smaller footprint. I *am* somewhat limited in space so a full-blown unisaw
is out of the question, I'm afraid and if the hybrid was slightly smaller,
all the more room for me in the shop.
Thanks to all the posters!
I appreciate the feedback,
Regards,
Mike
"A.M. Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> For 1/2 the price you can get a used unisaw that's much more sturdy
> and has a 110/220 volt motor.
I wasn't aware of a 110v Unisaw. Enlightenment, please.
Patriarch,
who paid a bunch to rewire for 220v and other stuff...
I did see several on e-bay right after reading this post:
http://cgi.ebay.com/DELTA-ROCKWELL-10-UNISAW-TILTING-ARBOR-TABLE-SAW_W0QQitemZ130057057689QQihZ003QQcategoryZ57124QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> Who peed in your cheerios this morning? The man asked for
>> opinions/advice and I provided mine. My advice is that the current
>> stuff coming out of chaiwan with a Delta label isn't worth buying.
>> Older used equipment, even at 75% of the retail price of a new machine,
>> is a much better value because the manufacturer's have been cuting
>> quality to keep costs down.
>>
>>
>> A.M. Wood
>
> As you suggest I waited 8 months early this year diligently searching
> the Atlanta, Jacksonville,Savannah, and Charleston SC Craig's lists,
> tool auctions, and newspapers for used Unisaws. I found one 3 phase
> unit and one in several baskets covered with four coats of paint
> applied with a brush. I finally purchased a new Steel City hybrid with
> 3HP 220V motor and am so glad I did. It's quality is why the current
> Fine Woodworking Tools and Shop issue recommends the Sears/Steel City
> Orion table saws for their under 5K workshop. Better yet, it's
> available right now. Now you could save some poor guy from having to
> settle for a crappy quality "chaiwan" saw by putting your old Unisaw on
> the market right now. How about it? Let us know when it's listed at a
> good price...one we can gloat about. Too many seekers chasing too few
> Unisaws is poor advice.
>
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:25:33 GMT, Mike Howland
<[email protected]> wrote:
>George Max wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:28:23 GMT, Mike Howland
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Greetings,
>>>
>>>I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
>>
>> FWIW, I bought a General 50-220C M1 during Woodcraft's 10% (or more)
>> off sale last September.
>
>Thanks George.
>Still looking but, like you, dust collection is my big concern. The
>Craftsman saw runs just fine, is accurate enough for me and fine for the
>ripping I do (I break out the bandsaw for the thicker material). I already
>have a buyer lined up for the contractor saw I have.
>Mike
Ha! Just how it went for me, 'cept I was doing *all* my ripping on
the TS, even 3" thick hard maple. Yes, it was tough. I didn't have a
bandsaw when that had to be done.
Now you're nearing decision time. Good luck.
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:44:00 -0800, ibarakicho wrote:
> Ditto. I have the 22114.
How rigid is the fence on that?
I was looking at a 22114 in the Sears store the other day, on the one in
the store the fence had a good deal of flex in it, compared to the
Biesemeyer on the saw next to it that had no give at all, and compared to
a Ridgid at Home Depot across the street that felt like it was welded
down. I could grab the back end and wiggle it an eighth of an inch or
more easily but it felt like springing rather than something slipping.
Now, I'm fully prepared to believe that the people in the store didn't
assemble it correctly or didn't sock down all the fasteners, and am
wondering if that is in fact the case, hence my question.
> Gus wrote:
>> Mike Howland wrote:
>> > Greetings,
>> >
>> > I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid
>> > saw. I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the
>> > enclosed cabinet and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a
>> > craftsman 10inch contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
>> >
>> > Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews
>> > seem mixed on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a
>> > hybrid saw by another manufacturer?
>> >
>> > I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without
>> > success.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> Do yourself a favor.
>>
>> Go to Sears and look CLOSELY at the 22104, 22114 and 22124 saws.
>>
>>
>> Wonderful, well-performing saws built by Orion, which is run by
>> ex-Delta folks.
>>
>> These saws can often be had at deep discounts.
>>
>> I've had a 22114 for a few years now and couldn't be happier.
>>
>> Good Luck
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 01:20:14 -0800, Chrisgiraffe wrote:
> Hello Mike,
> If I may throw two cents worth in, may I suggest you rethink your
> situation. You said you're considering a hybrid just because of
> footprint. It sounds to me like your real issue is not so much the saw
> base as the table top. Table tops are usually larger than the base and
> most are pretty close to the same before extensions unless you
> downgrade to a benchtop.
>
> If you haven't already, consider the average lengths of the wood(s)
> you're working with. If it's plywood sheets perhaps you can get by
> with some kind of vertical sheet-cutting rig. If you're cutting long
> stretches for cabinets then I'm not sure how you will work around
> extension tables without maneuvering your existing (if you have them)
> work tables. Some people utilize the table saw itself as a workbench
> in crowded spaces by placing a top over it when not in use. You can
> make a creative use of tables in conjuntion with your saw so that you
> are not dependent on permanent extension wings but you'll run into
> issues when you want to use your fence on them if they're not exactly
> the same depth as your table saw and you can't get them aligned
> properly. Again, the size of the wood you commonly work with will
> dictate a lot of what you can and can't get away with.
>
> As for dust collection, a cabinet without any suction on it is going to
> shoot dust in your face and soon will cloud up your basement. At some
> point you have to address that and a cabinet isn't much better than a
> nylon bag with a string tied around the dust chute.
>
> As for table saws, I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think
> their brand is the best. I used to own a Craftsman and I believe that
> what they market as 'contractor saws' are nothing more than benchtops
> in a contractor saw coat. I've got the Delta 36-982 contractor saw
> (comes w/ Biesemeyer fence and side extension table). I don't think
> anything Craftsman sells holds a candle to it, but, as you see, I have
> my preference too. Delta considers it their 'contractor saw'. If you
> get a chance drop in at Lowe's and have a look. One particular problem
> I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
> tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
> (e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).
Personally I'm in the market for a table saw myself and for various
reasons a Unisaw is out of the question. Took a look at that Delta and
the best price I find on it is higher than the top end of the Craftsman
line, which is a cabinet saw, not a contractor saw, and also has a
Biesemeyer fence, and very little plastic in evidence. Their next step
down is the same mechanism on legs instead of an enclosed base, and with
their fence--it's a lot cheaper than the Delta but the two examples I've
looked at so far both have some flex in the fence which may be indicative
of a design problem or may be just the store's half-assed job of assembly.
I wasn't aware that there was any established standard for clearance
plates, but the miter slot appears to be completely standard give or take
manufacturing tolerances.
> I just think for the same
> money you get more from Delta and Jet. I'm sure there are hordes ready
> to pull their teeth out that I didn't mention Steel City, Powermatic and
> General. Well, when I get the money to just go hog wild, perhaps-
> meanwhile I'm big on Delta (non-shopmaster) and Jet. I think they both
> offer great all around value (quality, durability, features, customer
> service) for the money. But, again, I have a hard time seeing the saw
> as much the main issue as table space and the size of wood you work
> with. If you're limited with space and moving from a Sears contractor
> to a hybrid I think you'll either have the same issue or it will be
> worse since the hybrid is likely to be as large or larger than a Sears
> contractor. If anything I would consider finding a quality benchtop
> (likely Bosch or Dewalt) and using benches in some configuration as make
> shift extension tables if space were the issue.
>
> If anyone doesn't like my Delta/Jet suggestion please feel free to ship
> me the best Table Saw of your choice and I'll be happy to give it a try. :-)
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
J. Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 01:20:14 -0800, Chrisgiraffe wrote:
>
> > Hello Mike,
> > If I may throw two cents worth in, may I suggest you rethink your
> > situation. You said you're considering a hybrid just because of
> > footprint. It sounds to me like your real issue is not so much the
> > saw base as the table top. Table tops are usually larger than the
> > base and most are pretty close to the same before extensions unless
> > you downgrade to a benchtop.
> >
> > If you haven't already, consider the average lengths of the wood(s)
> > you're working with. If it's plywood sheets perhaps you can get by
> > with some kind of vertical sheet-cutting rig. If you're cutting
> > long stretches for cabinets then I'm not sure how you will work
> > around extension tables without maneuvering your existing (if you
> > have them) work tables. Some people utilize the table saw itself
> > as a workbench in crowded spaces by placing a top over it when not
> > in use. You can make a creative use of tables in conjuntion with
> > your saw so that you are not dependent on permanent extension wings
> > but you'll run into issues when you want to use your fence on them
> > if they're not exactly the same depth as your table saw and you
> > can't get them aligned properly. Again, the size of the wood you
> > commonly work with will dictate a lot of what you can and can't get
> > away with.
> >
> > As for dust collection, a cabinet without any suction on it is
> > going to shoot dust in your face and soon will cloud up your
> > basement. At some point you have to address that and a cabinet
> > isn't much better than a nylon bag with a string tied around the
> > dust chute.
> >
> > As for table saws, I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't
> > think their brand is the best. I used to own a Craftsman and I
> > believe that what they market as 'contractor saws' are nothing more
> > than benchtops in a contractor saw coat. I've got the Delta 36-982
> > contractor saw (comes w/ Biesemeyer fence and side extension
> > table). I don't think anything Craftsman sells holds a candle to
> > it, but, as you see, I have my preference too. Delta considers it
> > their 'contractor saw'. If you get a chance drop in at Lowe's and
> > have a look. One particular problem I have with Craftsman is their
> > rampant use of plastics throughout their tools, their poor knockoff
> > features and their non-standard designs (e.g. miter slots,
> > clearance plates, etc.).
>
> Personally I'm in the market for a table saw myself and for various
> reasons a Unisaw is out of the question. Took a look at that Delta
> and the best price I find on it is higher than the top end of the
> Craftsman line, which is a cabinet saw, not a contractor saw, and
> also has a Biesemeyer fence, and very little plastic in evidence.
> Their next step down is the same mechanism on legs instead of an
> enclosed base, and with their fence--it's a lot cheaper than the
> Delta but the two examples I've looked at so far both have some flex
> in the fence which may be indicative of a design problem or may be
> just the store's half-assed job of assembly. I wasn't aware that
> there was any established standard for clearance plates, but the
> miter slot appears to be completely standard give or take
> manufacturing tolerances.
>
> > I just think for the same
> > money you get more from Delta and Jet. I'm sure there are hordes
> > ready to pull their teeth out that I didn't mention Steel City,
> > Powermatic and General. Well, when I get the money to just go hog
> > wild, perhaps- meanwhile I'm big on Delta (non-shopmaster) and Jet.
> > I think they both offer great all around value (quality,
> > durability, features, customer service) for the money. But, again,
> > I have a hard time seeing the saw as much the main issue as table
> > space and the size of wood you work with. If you're limited with
> > space and moving from a Sears contractor to a hybrid I think you'll
> > either have the same issue or it will be worse since the hybrid is
> > likely to be as large or larger than a Sears contractor. If
> > anything I would consider finding a quality benchtop (likely Bosch
> > or Dewalt) and using benches in some configuration as make shift
> > extension tables if space were the issue.
> >
> > If anyone doesn't like my Delta/Jet suggestion please feel free to
> > ship me the best Table Saw of your choice and I'll be happy to give
> > it a try. :-)
I just finished assembling a Grizzly G0478 Hybrid as a surprise
birthday gift for my brother-in-law. His wife left it up to me to do
the research on saws. I looked at Delta, Jet, General and the Craftsman
Professional. There was a price limit ($1000) and a time factor. The
Grizzly was $695 + $89 shipping to Boise,Id.It arrived in three days.
It's a very good saw for the money. He was surprised too. Jim
--
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 18:55:15 -0800, rmeyer1 wrote:
> A.M. Wood wrote:
>> Chrisgiraffe wrote:
>> >
>> > One particular problem
>> > I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
>> > tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
>> > (e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).
>>
>>
>> Interesting. Cheap toolmakers using non-standard parts in their
>> machines. Some of the trolls who frequent this newsgroup assert this
>> is absolutely not true. Why those fools even make fun of people who
>> would even think this. Of course, maybe they'd care to explain how to
>> get a standard miter gauge into a crapsman miter slot.
>>
>>
>> AM Wood
>
> I surely don't want to make fun of you (you might not sell me your
> Unisaw for a good price in the near future) but this foolish troll uses
> his Steel City/Crapsman miter gauge in Lee Valley tracks
> (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=45161&cat=3,43576,52799)
> which I added to my newly built outfeed table. My miter gauge is 3/4" x
> 3/8"...same size as the Lee Valley, Woodcraft. etc. miter tracks. Is
> the Delta miter gauge not also 3/4 x 3/8? My old Craftsman contractor
> saw also had a 3/4 x 3/8 miter. Well, if I'm a non-standard fool I must
> be in good company ... might ask Robin Lee why his miter tracks allow
> non-standard junk to slide in them.
I find it interesting that Incra makes their miter gage in the same
nonstandard dimension as the miter slot in my Craftsman band saw. If
Craftsman is the only tool made that Incra accessories will fit, well then
hot damn ah'm gittin' a lot o' Craftsman in the future <grin>.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Ebay isn't local for all of us. If you can't check out the
item or have to make extensive elaborate arrangements to
ship it, then it's not very helpful.
resrfglc wrote:
> I did see several on e-bay right after reading this post:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/DELTA-ROCKWELL-10-UNISAW-TILTING-ARBOR-TABLE-SAW_W0QQitemZ130057057689QQihZ003QQcategoryZ57124QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:28:23 GMT, Mike Howland
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Greetings,
>>
>>I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
>
> I know I'm late to the thread, but this is new information. <G>
>
> The FWW that arrived in my mailbox yesterday had a very favorable
> "first look" mini-review of a new Hitachi hybrid cabinet saw. The
> article stated the saw should sell ~ $1000.
>
> FWW has the specs online:
> <http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=28011>
>
>
> It looks nice!
Does that new Hitachi saw look alien? ;~)
George Max wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:28:23 GMT, Mike Howland
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Greetings,
>>
>>I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
>>I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
>>and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
>>contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
>>
>>Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem
>>mixed
>>on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
>>another manufacturer?
>>
>>I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without
>>success.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Mike
>
> FWIW, I bought a General 50-220C M1 during Woodcraft's 10% (or more)
> off sale last September. I did compare with the Delta 36-717. The
> Woodcraft guys said they sold more of that model than any other.
> However, in my opinion, the General is better.
>
> Yes, it's a hybrid. About $850 on sale. With a Biesemeyer clone
> fence. So far it's great. It replaced a 10" Craftsman contractors
> saw with all the usual mods - fence, belt, pulleys, insert.
>
> Smaller footprint - yes. But the top takes up just as much room. In
> fact, I built an extension wing to hang on the right side. In my
> studio, I use the tablesaws top for work other than sawing. My studio
> is small.
>
> Considering that I got along o.k. with the power of the Craftsman
> (nothing to write home about) the 2hp motor the General comes with is
> marvelous! But more power was something I'd wanted for a long time,
> but I couldn't justify a new saw to wifey solely on that. This fall
> it became apparent that dust collection was going to be necessary and
> that provided the final reason to buy a new saw.
>
> There isn't a darn thing to complain about with this saw. It's
> powerful enough, it's pretty good on dust collection, 'cept dust still
> comes off the blade on the top. I gotta buy a shark guard yet to pull
> dust from the topside. But that'll be true for any tablesaw.
>
> BTW, I had no trouble selling my old Craftsman saw. It appears that
> if the saw is at all any good, there's buyers lined up out the door
> and around the block to get one. In light of that, good luck holding
> out for a used cabinet saw.
Thanks George.
Still looking but, like you, dust collection is my big concern. The
Craftsman saw runs just fine, is accurate enough for me and fine for the
ripping I do (I break out the bandsaw for the thicker material). I already
have a buyer lined up for the contractor saw I have.
Mike
"Mike Howland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greetings,
>
> I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
> I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
> and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
> contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.
>
> Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem
> mixed
> on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
> another manufacturer?
>
> I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without
> success.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
I am not sure about the Delta but many Hybrids require Hybrid Accessories.
Something to think about when buying.
In article <[email protected]>,
Mike Howland <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>The hybrids seem to address this concern... at least somewhat. I was just
>curious about what folks thought. The hybrids also seem to have a slightly
>smaller footprint. I *am* somewhat limited in space so a full-blown unisaw
>is out of the question, I'm afraid and if the hybrid was slightly smaller,
>all the more room for me in the shop.
>
>Regards,
>Mike
Mike, if you've got the $, I believe you will find that for the same
fence rail length, the Unisaw will have a slightly SMALLER footprint
than a standard belt-drive, motor-in-the-back contractor's saw.
--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - [email protected]
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 05:39:09 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 20:24:45 GMT, "Leon"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>
>>>
>>>I am not sure about the Delta but many Hybrids require Hybrid Accessories.
>>>Something to think about when buying.
>>>
>>
>> What are you talking about? The first thing I did with my hybrid from
>> General was buy a JessEm miter gauge. It's works just fine. Nothing
>> "hybrid" about that miter gauge.
>
>Reread what I said.
>
I read it. I don't see why any hybrid would require any different
accessories from any other saw, contractor's or cabinet, as you say.
[email protected] wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Mike Howland <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>The hybrids seem to address this concern... at least somewhat. I was just
>>curious about what folks thought. The hybrids also seem to have a
>>slightly
>>smaller footprint. I *am* somewhat limited in space so a full-blown
>>unisaw is out of the question, I'm afraid and if the hybrid was slightly
>>smaller, all the more room for me in the shop.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Mike
>
>
> Mike, if you've got the $, I believe you will find that for the same
> fence rail length, the Unisaw will have a slightly SMALLER footprint
> than a standard belt-drive, motor-in-the-back contractor's saw.
>
>
I hadn't considered that. I will have to give them a closer look. My shop
space is in my basement (about 33' x 13') so every inch is precious.
Thanks again all for all the replies,
Regards,
Mike
One of the points I often make about choosing a tool is the availability of
generic accessories - a lesson learned the hard way with the purchase of a
Craftsman Tilt-table Band Saw (actually a gift from my wife) with a
(non-standard) 80" blade (yes, I know one can order blades to fit (at a
premium over stock units, of course))
Now, I tend to shop the accessories for a tool before deciding on the range
of tools to compare and contrast prior to purchase.
But, I will say that the old "Satisfaction guarantee" came in handy on a
number of occasions when a quick jaunt to the store had me back home in an
hour with a new tool or a credit on my Sears card.
"A.M. Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Chrisgiraffe wrote:
>>
>> One particular problem
>> I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
>> tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
>> (e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).
>
>
> Interesting. Cheap toolmakers using non-standard parts in their
> machines. Some of the trolls who frequent this newsgroup assert this
> is absolutely not true. Why those fools even make fun of people who
> would even think this. Of course, maybe they'd care to explain how to
> get a standard miter gauge into a crapsman miter slot.
>
>
> AM Wood
>
"Chrisgiraffe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> One more tidbit,
> If you're considering a cabinet saw I just came across an outstanding
> deal from Steel City. Their model 35601 is currently running on sale
> for $899.00!
>
> http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pdf/steelcity_fall_us.pdf
>
Yeah, that is closer to a Hybrid, not a true cabinet saw although it does
set on a cabinet. The 1.75hp motor is the give away and the typical smaller
than normal adjustment wheels for the blade tilt and height adjustment.