Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
On 2 Oct 2003 09:39:24 -0700, [email protected] (Iamhere) wrote:
>How smart can goyim be when they celebrate Christ's birthday on
>Dec.25th while biblical experts agree he was born in April? The goyim
>have all the answers but cannot tell you why there is not a shred of
>evidence of Jesus's birth and so-called ministry.
Only the uneducated don't know why there is little /no evidence
ancient in origin of Christ's birth or death.
Ever hear of the library at Alexandria?
Not a shred. Nothing
>written in either Hebrew or Aramaic, the two languages spoken and
>written in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. The entire New Testament was
>concocted and written by GREEKS as a way of getting back at the
>Hebrews whose Macabbe guerillas forced the idol worshippers out of the
>area.
Interesting numbskull theory. However, it doesn't explain the
existence of 1st Century AD churches, all of which are still being
used for worship.
John W
Oh yeah, Jesus sure does save. Jesus Gonzalez in San Diego First
>Union.
>
>Iamhere
>
>
>
>
>
>
>John W <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 20:48:15 GMT, Aaron <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:08:08 GMT, "Generic Eric" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Are there posts about 35mm photo equipment at
>> >>alt.religion.christian.baptist?
>> >>
>> >>Just curious.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >>news:[email protected]...
>> >>> >On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
>>
>> >>> >Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>> >>> >God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>> >>> >Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>> >>> >will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>> >>> >same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>> >
>> >So, you are claiming that Paul is damned for remaining Jewish all his
>> >life despite his additional faith that Jesus is the Messiah? Paul
>> >repeatedld said that he was Jewish AFTER he accepted Jesus. Paul even
>> >offered blood offerings in the Temple in Acts 22.
>>
>> Paul did NOT "remain Jewish" his entire life. He preached AGAINST
>> following the Old traditions, such as festivals, holidays, and
>> Sabbaths.
>>
>> Paul in fact led the charge for Christians to worship the Risen Christ
>> on the day of the week He rose.
>> >
>> >Jesus even taught Judaism and nothing else.
>>
>> Jesus broke Sabbath too often to believe He strictly endorsed Judaism.
>> And His re-stating of the Christian version of the Seder pointed out
>> GRAPHICALLY that the Jews had / have NEVER understood many of the
>> symbols God gave them prophetically, like the REAL meaning of the
>> Seder bread, the REAL meaning of the Seder wine, the REAL meaning of
>> the 3-pocket sack used in the Seder observation.
>>
>> >Jesus never taught Christmas,
>>
>> Jesus may not have taught the first Christmas, but the 1st Christmas
>> is in the Bible.
>>
>> Easter,
>>
>> Jesus may not have taught Easter, but He didn't forbid observing the
>> Resurrection.
>>
>> Lent, Communoion,
>>
>> Jesus DID teach communion when He gave the 12 the Lord's Supper.
>>
>> or sunday
>> >worship.
>>
>> Jesus didn't mention Sunday worship because it doesn't matter to God
>> WHAT day we worship; it matters THAT we worship. And Jesus and the
>> Holy Spirit BOTH endorsed Sunday worship.
>>
>> The night Jesus showed Thomas His scars was the Sunday evening He
>> rose. And what were the disciples/apostles doing when Jesus appeared
>> to them that Sunday evening? They were worshipping; Christian worship
>> on Sunday. And He came and blessed their Sunday worship service with
>> His presence.
>>
>> In the same way, the Holy Spirit endorsed Sunday worship by coming
>> upon the apostles (Pentecost SUNDAY) on Sunday during a Sunday morning
>> worship service.
>>
>> NOT ONE WORD of derision / correction was uttered either by Jesus or
>> by the Holy Spirit when they came and found the disciples/apostles
>> WORSHIPPING ON SUNDAY. NOT evangelism to the Jews; Sunday Christian
>> worship.
>>
>>
>> Jesus celebrated Chanukkah, Sukkot, Passover, and went to
>> >synagogue on Saturday, the Sabbath.
>>
>> Correct! Now read what Jesus was doing at the temple/synagogue on
>> Sabbath. He was ministering to the Jews, who had gathered at the
>> temple/synagogue. That's the day the most Jews were there. He went
>> where the Jews were.
>>
>>
>> John W
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Maybe you should rethink things before you try to tell me that Jesus
>> >who is the most Jewish Jew of all time will burn in Hell.
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> Hello,
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes, Jesus did certainly show that only going through him, could a
>> >>> person reach God. Joh 14:6,
>> >>>
>> >>> "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
>> >>> comes to the Father except through me."" (NIV)
>> >>>
>> >>> But if your reference to "hell" means 'hellfire', I just wondered if
>> >>> you were aware that the Bible does not teach of such a sadistic place.
>>
>> Jesus either lied, or there is a Hell.
>>
>>
>> >>>
>> >>> First, God's inspired word clearly says the dead are not conscious and
>> >>> therefore could not experience emotional or physical pain. Solomon,
>> >>> under inspiration, wrote at Ec 9:5,10,
>>
>> Find ONE verse that says the dead aren't conscious. The New Testament
>> says they are.
>>
>>
>> >>>
>> >>> "5. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
>> >>> they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.
>> >>> 10. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in
>> >>> the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning
>> >>> nor knowledge nor wisdom." (NIV)
>> >>>
>> >>> Concerning death, the Psalmist writes at Ps 146:4,
>> >>>
>> >>> "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his
>> >>> thoughts perish." (NASB)
>> >>>
>> >>> So there isn't an "immortal soul" that survives the body at death.
>> >>> God's inspired word says that a soul can die, it is not immortal. The
>> >>> prophet Ezekiel wrote under inspiration at Eze 18:4,
>> >>>
>> >>> "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
>> >>> soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)
>> >>>
>> >>> Second, Adam's punishment for disobedience was not continued life
>> >>> somewhere else, but was death, nonexistence, "return to the ground".
>> >>> (Ge 3:19)
>> >>>
>> >>> The Bible says the penalty for sin is death. Not a life of torture.
>> >>> Under inspiration, the Apostle Paul tells us in Ro 6:23,
>> >>>
>> >>> "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in
>> >>> Christ Jesus our Lord." (NIV)
>> >>>
>> >>> If a person dies he has paid for his sins. No further punishment is
>> >>> needed. Paul says this at Ro 6:7,
>> >>>
>> >>> "because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." (NIV)
>> >>>
>> >>> The majority of mankind that have died are awaiting a resurrection.
>> >>> Under inspiration, the disciple Luke wrote at Ac 24:15,
>> >>>
>> >>> "and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a
>> >>> resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)
>> >>>
>> >>> Notice that the "wicked" are not burning in some 'hellfire' place, but
>> >>> are awaiting a resurrection. So when they are resurrected God won't
>> >>> hold them accountable for their past sins, because God had Paul write
>> >>> the Bible truth, that "anyone" who "died" is "freed from sin". (Ro
>> >>> 6:7)
>> >>>
>> >>> But some may object and point to Re 20:14,15 as 'proof' of hellfire.
>> >>> Re 20:14,15 reads,
>> >>>
>> >>> "14. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake
>> >>> of fire is the second death. 15. If anyone's name was not found
>> >>> written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
>> >>> (NIV)
>> >>>
>> >>> Does this not speak of a "hellfire"?
>> >>>
>> >>> No. Notice that two items are thrown into this "lake of fire", death
>> >>> and Hades. Can death be thrown somewhere or burned? No, Death is an
>> >>> abstract concept, not a literal thing. And neither is that "lake of
>> >>> fire" literal, as some would have you believe.
>> >>>
>> >>> Please consider the above Scriptures, since they are the truth about
>> >>> "hell". As Jesus put it at Joh 17:17,
>> >>>
>> >>> "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (NIV)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sincerely, James
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________________
>> Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
>> <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:44:46 GMT, Aaron <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2 Oct 2003 07:11:40 GMT, John W <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 20:48:15 GMT, Aaron <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:08:08 GMT, "Generic Eric" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Are there posts about 35mm photo equipment at
>>>>alt.religion.christian.baptist?
>>>>
>>>>Just curious.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>> >On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>>>>> >God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>>>>> >Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>>>>> >will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>>>>> >same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>>>
>>>So, you are claiming that Paul is damned for remaining Jewish all his
>>>life despite his additional faith that Jesus is the Messiah? Paul
>>>repeatedld said that he was Jewish AFTER he accepted Jesus. Paul even
>>>offered blood offerings in the Temple in Acts 22.
>>
>>Paul did NOT "remain Jewish" his entire life. He preached AGAINST
>>following the Old traditions, such as festivals, holidays, and
>>Sabbaths.
>
>No, Paul preach against Gentiles following THEIR old traditions.
>He preached against being chained to man-made Laws which were
>additions to Judaism, not Judaism. He identified himself as a Jew.
>And he did offer blood sacrifice in the Temple. In short he followed
>the teachings of Jesus, who taught only Judaism.
>
>>
>>Paul in fact led the charge for Christians to worship the Risen Christ
>>on the day of the week He rose.
>>>
>>>Jesus even taught Judaism and nothing else.
>>
>>Jesus broke Sabbath too often to believe He strictly endorsed Judaism.
>
>Jesus broke a man-made rule of Sabbath, but Kept all of God's
>commandments of Sabbath.
LOL!
>
>>And His re-stating of the Christian version of the Seder pointed out
>>GRAPHICALLY that the Jews had / have NEVER understood many of the
>>symbols God gave them prophetically, like the REAL meaning of the
>>Seder bread, the REAL meaning of the Seder wine, the REAL meaning of
>>the 3-pocket sack used in the Seder observation.
>
>John W, the was no "Christian version of the Seder,"
Oh? What do you call "the Lord's Supper?" The Lord's Supper we
practice today, as He commanded then, is the Christian version of the
Seder meal. Duh!
and there still
>isn't. The Catholics adopted a Babylonian rite used in worshiping
>their "sun-god," snd the Protestants have kept this "Communion."
The Lord's Supper is NOT from Catholicism, as you'd know if you ever
bothered to pick up and read a Bible.
>Though you are half right in that Jesus taught the same "real" meaning
>that the Pharisees taught about several of the elements of the Seder
>
>>
>>>Jesus never taught Christmas,
>>
>>Jesus may not have taught the first Christmas, but the 1st Christmas
>>is in the Bible.
>
>The first Christmas was in Babylon centuries earlier.
That is not possible, genius! "Christmas" means "celebration of
Christ" who had not been born in Babylon centuries earlier. Do you
NEVER think about your mis-statements before you type?
It celebrates
>the birth of Mithra, the Babylonian "sun-god." The Catholics
>assimilated the Babylonian holiday in the Fourth Century CE.
Wrong.
>>
>>Easter,
>>
>>Jesus may not have taught Easter, but He didn't forbid observing the
>>Resurrection.
>
>The resurrection would be observed on the Biblical Holy Day when it
>occurred (Yom HaBikkurim/Rishon HaOmer).
Since Paul taught us to not be concerned with "holidays, festivals,
feasts, special days, foods, or Sabbaths", we can set our own dates as
we please. This is the NEW Covenant, in our Savior's blood, not the
Old Covenant.
Easter and Christmas are
>both pagan holidays.
Perhaps they WERE. We certainly can Christianize whatever days/dates
we wish. This is one way of reaching out to those of other cultures
and faiths. If we abhor and avoid all the customs of the
nations/cultures we mean to witness to, they are repelled rather than
being drawn to us. Just as Paul went to visit Peter at one of Peter's
gentile churches. He found Peter eating a slab of ham ( apparently:
non-kosher food) and Peter saw Paul and IMMEDIATELY jumnped up from
his dinner and left both his ham and the gentiles to rejoin the Jews
who had come with Paul.
No sweat eating pork or ham; the sweat is when we do it
hypocritically. And we celebrate Easter as the day (Sunday) Christ
rose. We do not KNOW the exact date, so we picked one. Apparently, one
culture we were trying to raech as Christians do, honored one
particular date. Since Paul had not forbidden or commanded one date
over another, the dates didn't make any issue for Christians.
You are VERY uptight over the Old Testament. I am FREE in the blood of
Christ of the New Testament.
The first Christmas occured when the angels lit up the night sky and
sang a hymn for the shepherds to annouce the KIng's birth!
It dosen't matter when/where the 2nd Christmas was celebrated. I
imagine the apostles had an observance, but it wasn't important enough
to put it in Holy Writ.
Easter is the "hatchingday" of Easter, mother of
>Mithra, and the source for Catholicism's "perpetual virgin" myth. As
>such both pagan holidays cannot be "cleaned up" for worshiping God.
>Such an attempt is forbidden in Deuteronomy 12.
Easter and Christmas are innocent holidays Christians celebrate to
honor our God. And you can't tell ME how to worship God; I do as my
spirit leads. And your law, AGAIN, is Old Covenant. Check out Paul's
views on the subject, or do you ignore Paul?
>>
>>Lent, Communoion,
>>
>>Jesus DID teach communion when He gave the 12 the Lord's Supper.
>
>No, Jesus modified the Passover Seder; Catholicism assimilated
>Communion from the Baylnians.
SEMANTICS! SEMANTICS! SEMANTICS! And that you wish to argue over such
issues means you disregard Paul's teachings and that you are a
hard-core Pharisee Adventist. And we are done.
Again this is forbidden by Deuteronomy
>12's prohibition against assimilating pagan rituals for use in
>worshiping God.
Old Testament. I focun on the New.
>
>>
>>or sunday
>>>worship.
>>
>>Jesus didn't mention Sunday worship because it doesn't matter to God
>>WHAT day we worship; it matters THAT we worship. And Jesus and the
>>Holy Spirit BOTH endorsed Sunday worship.
>
>John W, you have ;lost the argument too many times to count.
ONLY in your unimportant (to me) opinion, which is irrelevant.
>Jesus did affirm that all the commandments would remain in full effect
>until Heaven and earth were destroyed, which obviously has not
>happened yet, or we would not be discussing this.
You misunderstood. Do YOU count your cummin and mustard? Do YOU stone
women caught in adultery?
Do YOU stone men and women caught fornicating? Do YOU still offer
temple sacrifices?
If not, you are a condemned Jew!
Jesus and the
>Spirit did endorce BIBLICAL annual Holy Days, such as Rishon Ha Omer,
>and Shavuot, which COULD fall on Sunday and which did fall on Sunday
>in the year of His resurrection.
If you're gonna attempt to get anywhere with me, speak English.
>
>>
>>The night Jesus showed Thomas His scars was the Sunday evening He
>>rose. And what were the disciples/apostles doing when Jesus appeared
>>to them that Sunday evening? They were worshipping; Christian worship
>>on Sunday. And He came and blessed their Sunday worship service with
>>His presence.
>
>The bible does not say that they were doing anything at all when jesus
>came to them.
Sure it does. It says they met together. That is the definition of
"church". They were "two or more gathered in My Name!" Your view of
"church" and "worship" are narrow and unscriptural.
Also, the Greek text says that it was EIGHT days after
>Yon HaBikkurim, (the Sunday) when Jesus arose. Do the math. Start at
>sunday and count forward eight days.
Jesus said "3 days". Your math is wrong, or you have just called Jesus
a liar. Friday crucifixion (or Thursday, some say), Sunday
resurrection.
>
>>
>>In the same way, the Holy Spirit endorsed Sunday worship by coming
>>upon the apostles (Pentecost SUNDAY) on Sunday during a Sunday morning
>>worship service.
>
>ANNUAL BIBLICAL Holy Day, not weekly worship.
You confuse the calendar with the event. AGAIN, you are a Pharisee
"bean counter". The EVENT of the Pentecost gift occured on Sunday, and
the Bible proves this out by the point of 4 church services on Sunday
between Acts and 1 Corinthians.
(OPEN YOUR MIND. The Holy Spirit can't speak to you otherwise.)
>
>>
>>NOT ONE WORD of derision / correction was uttered either by Jesus or
>>by the Holy Spirit when they came and found the disciples/apostles
>>WORSHIPPING ON SUNDAY. NOT evangelism to the Jews; Sunday Christian
>>worship.
>
>So it was correct for the Disciples to give blood Offerings in the
>Temple on Pentecost?
Quote please. You aren't reading the Bible I'm reading!
>>
>>
>>Jesus celebrated Chanukkah, Sukkot, Passover, and went to
>>>synagogue on Saturday, the Sabbath.
>>
>>Correct! Now read what Jesus was doing at the temple/synagogue on
>>Sabbath. He was ministering to the Jews, who had gathered at the
>>temple/synagogue. That's the day the most Jews were there. He went
>>where the Jews were.
>
>Of course He did, He is a JEW.
HE WENT WHERE THE JEWS WERE TO PREACH TO THEM. Monday, He went to the
market, same Tuesday, same Wednesday, Thursday found Him preaching in
the hills, Friday, He was preaching across the lake; Saturday, the
Jewish Sabbath, all the Jews would be in the Temple, so that's where
He went. Sunday, the Jews were back at life in general, and He went
back to the market or the town square to preach again.
John W
>
>He also commanded His followers to observe these Holy Days in Matthew
>5:17-19.
>
>>
>>
>>John W
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Maybe you should rethink things before you try to tell me that Jesus
>>>who is the most Jewish Jew of all time will burn in Hell.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, Jesus did certainly show that only going through him, could a
>>>>> person reach God. Joh 14:6,
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
>>>>> comes to the Father except through me."" (NIV)
>>>>>
>>>>> But if your reference to "hell" means 'hellfire', I just wondered if
>>>>> you were aware that the Bible does not teach of such a sadistic place.
>>
>>Jesus either lied, or there is a Hell.
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> First, God's inspired word clearly says the dead are not conscious and
>>>>> therefore could not experience emotional or physical pain. Solomon,
>>>>> under inspiration, wrote at Ec 9:5,10,
>>
>>Find ONE verse that says the dead aren't conscious. The New Testament
>>says they are.
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "5. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
>>>>> they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.
>>>>> 10. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in
>>>>> the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning
>>>>> nor knowledge nor wisdom." (NIV)
>>>>>
>>>>> Concerning death, the Psalmist writes at Ps 146:4,
>>>>>
>>>>> "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his
>>>>> thoughts perish." (NASB)
>>>>>
>>>>> So there isn't an "immortal soul" that survives the body at death.
>>>>> God's inspired word says that a soul can die, it is not immortal. The
>>>>> prophet Ezekiel wrote under inspiration at Eze 18:4,
>>>>>
>>>>> "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
>>>>> soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)
>>>>>
>>>>> Second, Adam's punishment for disobedience was not continued life
>>>>> somewhere else, but was death, nonexistence, "return to the ground".
>>>>> (Ge 3:19)
>>>>>
>>>>> The Bible says the penalty for sin is death. Not a life of torture.
>>>>> Under inspiration, the Apostle Paul tells us in Ro 6:23,
>>>>>
>>>>> "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in
>>>>> Christ Jesus our Lord." (NIV)
>>>>>
>>>>> If a person dies he has paid for his sins. No further punishment is
>>>>> needed. Paul says this at Ro 6:7,
>>>>>
>>>>> "because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." (NIV)
>>>>>
>>>>> The majority of mankind that have died are awaiting a resurrection.
>>>>> Under inspiration, the disciple Luke wrote at Ac 24:15,
>>>>>
>>>>> "and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a
>>>>> resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)
>>>>>
>>>>> Notice that the "wicked" are not burning in some 'hellfire' place, but
>>>>> are awaiting a resurrection. So when they are resurrected God won't
>>>>> hold them accountable for their past sins, because God had Paul write
>>>>> the Bible truth, that "anyone" who "died" is "freed from sin". (Ro
>>>>> 6:7)
>>>>>
>>>>> But some may object and point to Re 20:14,15 as 'proof' of hellfire.
>>>>> Re 20:14,15 reads,
>>>>>
>>>>> "14. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake
>>>>> of fire is the second death. 15. If anyone's name was not found
>>>>> written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
>>>>> (NIV)
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this not speak of a "hellfire"?
>>>>>
>>>>> No. Notice that two items are thrown into this "lake of fire", death
>>>>> and Hades. Can death be thrown somewhere or burned? No, Death is an
>>>>> abstract concept, not a literal thing. And neither is that "lake of
>>>>> fire" literal, as some would have you believe.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please consider the above Scriptures, since they are the truth about
>>>>> "hell". As Jesus put it at Joh 17:17,
>>>>>
>>>>> "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (NIV)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely, James
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________________________________________
>>Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
>> <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
>>
Hey Jesus, Why don't you stop cross-posting this crap to rec.woodworking.
[email protected] (Jack) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
> >Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> According to Romans 11:25-29 The Jews will always be God's Chosen people.
>
> "For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly
> concealed but has now revealed, so that you won't imagine you know more than
> you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Israel,
> until the Gentile world enters in its fullness; and that it is in this way
> that all Israel will be saved. As the Tanakh says,
> 'Out of Tziyon will come the Redeemer;
> he will turn away ungodliness from Ya'akov
> and this will be my covenant with them, ?
> when I take away their sins.'
> With respect to the Good News they are hated for your sake. But with respect
> to being chosen they are loved for the Patriarchs' sake, for God's free gifts
> and his calling are irrevocable."
>
> >
> >There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> >God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>
> And given the Gentiles the privilage of becoming grafted into His Chosen
> people Israel, though most Christians reject this offer.
>
> >Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> >will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> >same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>
> Jesus IS a Jew. you are calling Jesus "a mortal sinner." Whatever "mortal
> sinner" is supposed to mean in your mythology.
Hey Jesus, Why don't you stop cross-posting this crap to rec.woodworking.
[email protected] (Jack) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
> >Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> According to Romans 11:25-29 The Jews will always be God's Chosen people.
>
> "For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly
> concealed but has now revealed, so that you won't imagine you know more than
> you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Israel,
> until the Gentile world enters in its fullness; and that it is in this way
> that all Israel will be saved. As the Tanakh says,
> 'Out of Tziyon will come the Redeemer;
> he will turn away ungodliness from Ya'akov
> and this will be my covenant with them, ?
> when I take away their sins.'
> With respect to the Good News they are hated for your sake. But with respect
> to being chosen they are loved for the Patriarchs' sake, for God's free gifts
> and his calling are irrevocable."
>
> >
> >There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> >God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>
> And given the Gentiles the privilage of becoming grafted into His Chosen
> people Israel, though most Christians reject this offer.
>
> >Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> >will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> >same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>
> Jesus IS a Jew. you are calling Jesus "a mortal sinner." Whatever "mortal
> sinner" is supposed to mean in your mythology.
"Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Cindy Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
> >
> > There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> > God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
> > Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> > will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> > same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
> >
> This may be true, however my heart goes for Jesus himself; i.e. he was a
> full 100 percent kosher Jew all his life, even died as a jew. So how do
we
> redeem Lord Jesus' soul???
> -Z.
Jesus, as a "koszer Jew, does not need redeeming.
If you haven't figured out that "Cindy" is the troll that we've all been
suffering for the past month then I suggest you look up:
"USENET TROLLS"
for your general edification. This "person" is not at all interested in
nettiquette, bandwidth saving, politeness or decluttering the 'net.
The only and best thing to do is not reply at all.
Tuffie wrote:
> Please stop cross-posting to rec.woodworking. Your topic(s) are way
> off base for that newsgroup and, as such, constitute an unwarranted
> and unappreciated intrusion, taking up bandwidth and adding to the
> general 'net clutter.
>
> TIA for your cooperation. :)
>
>
>
> On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan)
> wrote:
>
>
>>Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>>
>>There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>>God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>>Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>>will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>>same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>
>
[email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
> Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
===============================================================================
Hey moron, haven't you heard? Hell is cool. The Jews put in air conditioning.
Iamhere
[email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
> Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
===============================================================================
Oh bull. Had Jesus a good Jewish lawyer, he would have either gotten
off or struck a plea bargain by which he would have had to do 1000
hours of community service as well as repair broken Roman villa
kitchen cabinets.
Iamhere
[email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
> Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
===============================================================================
Bunghole Cindy..you're wrong. Jews are chosen to go to medical school
to learn techniques and develop treatments and drugs to either prolong
or save the lives of vicious goyische scumbags like you.
Iamhere
>
> If you dug deeper, the Bible ALSO says the Jews will be given another
> chance. I've heard that since I was a child, and while I can't give
> you the exact reference, I recently found it. (I have no memory for
> scripture references.)
>
> John W
===============================================================================
Another chance? Huh? Are you talking about the OT or NT? Can't be the
OT because that tome states that when a Messiah arrived, his mission
would be to drive out the invaders and unholy whereby there'd be
consolidation of the Hebrews in the Holy Land. It says NOTHING about
WORSHIPPING any Messiah. A Messiah is not God or God-like so the NT
has it screwed up...again. The Jews need another chance to worship a
MAN GOD? Are you nuts? All Christianity is is the anthropormorphic
version of Judaism. That means to make Judaism more palatable to the
masses, God had to be walking among us and this human God had to have
the answer to death. If not, how else could the whole thing be sold?
And if Christianity were the TRUE religion, knowing the penchant of
the Jews for mercantilism, they would have bought the idea,
copyrighted it and made a fortune selling spinoff items such as
crosses,statutes, automobile dashboard saints, baptismal fonts, habits
etc.
Another chance? My foot.
Iamhere
Zalek Bloom <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > >On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
> [...]
>
> Jews ARE considered the "chosen people", today more than ever.
> Many people CHOOSE to write about Jews an every possible internet
> forum.
> We are the chosen people - by Allmighty and by the Internet users like
> you.
>
> Zalek
===============================================================================
Zalek, a GUT YONTOV to you and yours.
Iamhere
How smart can goyim be when they celebrate Christ's birthday on
Dec.25th while biblical experts agree he was born in April? The goyim
have all the answers but cannot tell you why there is not a shred of
evidence of Jesus's birth and so-called ministry. Not a shred. Nothing
written in either Hebrew or Aramaic, the two languages spoken and
written in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. The entire New Testament was
concocted and written by GREEKS as a way of getting back at the
Hebrews whose Macabbe guerillas forced the idol worshippers out of the
area.Oh yeah, Jesus sure does save. Jesus Gonzalez in San Diego First
Union.
Iamhere
John W <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 20:48:15 GMT, Aaron <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:08:08 GMT, "Generic Eric" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Are there posts about 35mm photo equipment at
> >>alt.religion.christian.baptist?
> >>
> >>Just curious.
> >>
> >>
> >>"James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>> >On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
>
> >>> >Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
> >>> >
> >>> >There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> >>> >God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
> >>> >Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> >>> >will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> >>> >same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
> >
> >So, you are claiming that Paul is damned for remaining Jewish all his
> >life despite his additional faith that Jesus is the Messiah? Paul
> >repeatedld said that he was Jewish AFTER he accepted Jesus. Paul even
> >offered blood offerings in the Temple in Acts 22.
>
> Paul did NOT "remain Jewish" his entire life. He preached AGAINST
> following the Old traditions, such as festivals, holidays, and
> Sabbaths.
>
> Paul in fact led the charge for Christians to worship the Risen Christ
> on the day of the week He rose.
> >
> >Jesus even taught Judaism and nothing else.
>
> Jesus broke Sabbath too often to believe He strictly endorsed Judaism.
> And His re-stating of the Christian version of the Seder pointed out
> GRAPHICALLY that the Jews had / have NEVER understood many of the
> symbols God gave them prophetically, like the REAL meaning of the
> Seder bread, the REAL meaning of the Seder wine, the REAL meaning of
> the 3-pocket sack used in the Seder observation.
>
> >Jesus never taught Christmas,
>
> Jesus may not have taught the first Christmas, but the 1st Christmas
> is in the Bible.
>
> Easter,
>
> Jesus may not have taught Easter, but He didn't forbid observing the
> Resurrection.
>
> Lent, Communoion,
>
> Jesus DID teach communion when He gave the 12 the Lord's Supper.
>
> or sunday
> >worship.
>
> Jesus didn't mention Sunday worship because it doesn't matter to God
> WHAT day we worship; it matters THAT we worship. And Jesus and the
> Holy Spirit BOTH endorsed Sunday worship.
>
> The night Jesus showed Thomas His scars was the Sunday evening He
> rose. And what were the disciples/apostles doing when Jesus appeared
> to them that Sunday evening? They were worshipping; Christian worship
> on Sunday. And He came and blessed their Sunday worship service with
> His presence.
>
> In the same way, the Holy Spirit endorsed Sunday worship by coming
> upon the apostles (Pentecost SUNDAY) on Sunday during a Sunday morning
> worship service.
>
> NOT ONE WORD of derision / correction was uttered either by Jesus or
> by the Holy Spirit when they came and found the disciples/apostles
> WORSHIPPING ON SUNDAY. NOT evangelism to the Jews; Sunday Christian
> worship.
>
>
> Jesus celebrated Chanukkah, Sukkot, Passover, and went to
> >synagogue on Saturday, the Sabbath.
>
> Correct! Now read what Jesus was doing at the temple/synagogue on
> Sabbath. He was ministering to the Jews, who had gathered at the
> temple/synagogue. That's the day the most Jews were there. He went
> where the Jews were.
>
>
> John W
>
>
> >
> >Maybe you should rethink things before you try to tell me that Jesus
> >who is the most Jewish Jew of all time will burn in Hell.
> >
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> Yes, Jesus did certainly show that only going through him, could a
> >>> person reach God. Joh 14:6,
> >>>
> >>> "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
> >>> comes to the Father except through me."" (NIV)
> >>>
> >>> But if your reference to "hell" means 'hellfire', I just wondered if
> >>> you were aware that the Bible does not teach of such a sadistic place.
>
> Jesus either lied, or there is a Hell.
>
>
> >>>
> >>> First, God's inspired word clearly says the dead are not conscious and
> >>> therefore could not experience emotional or physical pain. Solomon,
> >>> under inspiration, wrote at Ec 9:5,10,
>
> Find ONE verse that says the dead aren't conscious. The New Testament
> says they are.
>
>
> >>>
> >>> "5. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
> >>> they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.
> >>> 10. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in
> >>> the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning
> >>> nor knowledge nor wisdom." (NIV)
> >>>
> >>> Concerning death, the Psalmist writes at Ps 146:4,
> >>>
> >>> "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his
> >>> thoughts perish." (NASB)
> >>>
> >>> So there isn't an "immortal soul" that survives the body at death.
> >>> God's inspired word says that a soul can die, it is not immortal. The
> >>> prophet Ezekiel wrote under inspiration at Eze 18:4,
> >>>
> >>> "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
> >>> soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)
> >>>
> >>> Second, Adam's punishment for disobedience was not continued life
> >>> somewhere else, but was death, nonexistence, "return to the ground".
> >>> (Ge 3:19)
> >>>
> >>> The Bible says the penalty for sin is death. Not a life of torture.
> >>> Under inspiration, the Apostle Paul tells us in Ro 6:23,
> >>>
> >>> "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in
> >>> Christ Jesus our Lord." (NIV)
> >>>
> >>> If a person dies he has paid for his sins. No further punishment is
> >>> needed. Paul says this at Ro 6:7,
> >>>
> >>> "because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." (NIV)
> >>>
> >>> The majority of mankind that have died are awaiting a resurrection.
> >>> Under inspiration, the disciple Luke wrote at Ac 24:15,
> >>>
> >>> "and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a
> >>> resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)
> >>>
> >>> Notice that the "wicked" are not burning in some 'hellfire' place, but
> >>> are awaiting a resurrection. So when they are resurrected God won't
> >>> hold them accountable for their past sins, because God had Paul write
> >>> the Bible truth, that "anyone" who "died" is "freed from sin". (Ro
> >>> 6:7)
> >>>
> >>> But some may object and point to Re 20:14,15 as 'proof' of hellfire.
> >>> Re 20:14,15 reads,
> >>>
> >>> "14. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake
> >>> of fire is the second death. 15. If anyone's name was not found
> >>> written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
> >>> (NIV)
> >>>
> >>> Does this not speak of a "hellfire"?
> >>>
> >>> No. Notice that two items are thrown into this "lake of fire", death
> >>> and Hades. Can death be thrown somewhere or burned? No, Death is an
> >>> abstract concept, not a literal thing. And neither is that "lake of
> >>> fire" literal, as some would have you believe.
> >>>
> >>> Please consider the above Scriptures, since they are the truth about
> >>> "hell". As Jesus put it at Joh 17:17,
> >>>
> >>> "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (NIV)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely, James
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
> <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
John W <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 2 Oct 2003 09:39:24 -0700, [email protected] (Iamhere) wrote:
>
> >How smart can goyim be when they celebrate Christ's birthday on
> >Dec.25th while biblical experts agree he was born in April? The goyim
> >have all the answers but cannot tell you why there is not a shred of
> >evidence of Jesus's birth and so-called ministry.
>
> Only the uneducated don't know why there is little /no evidence
> ancient in origin of Christ's birth or death.
>
> Ever hear of the library at Alexandria?
>
>
> Not a shred. Nothing
> >written in either Hebrew or Aramaic, the two languages spoken and
> >written in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. The entire New Testament was
> >concocted and written by GREEKS as a way of getting back at the
> >Hebrews whose Macabbe guerillas forced the idol worshippers out of the
> >area.
>
>
> Interesting numbskull theory. However, it doesn't explain the
> existence of 1st Century AD churches, all of which are still being
> used for worship.
>
>
> John W
================================================================================
Sir, you're absolutely right. It proves that Jewish coverts and then
outright goyim have been numbskulls for worshipping voodoo in 1st
Century and now 21st Century churches. How odd that people can remain
dopes for 2000 years however everyone is entitled to dopiness
including the Orthoodox Jews who are screwier than the goyim.It's a
wonder why they don't trip over their ugly beards.
God is great but organized religion sucks.
Iamhere
On 29 Aug 2003 08:45:12 -0700, [email protected] (Iamhere) wrote:
>>
>> If you dug deeper, the Bible ALSO says the Jews will be given another
>> chance. I've heard that since I was a child, and while I can't give
>> you the exact reference, I recently found it. (I have no memory for
>> scripture references.)
>>
>> John W
>===============================================================================
>Another chance? Huh? Are you talking about the OT or NT? Can't be the
>OT because that tome states that when a Messiah arrived, his mission
>would be to drive out the invaders and unholy whereby there'd be
>consolidation of the Hebrews in the Holy Land. It says NOTHING about
>WORSHIPPING any Messiah. A Messiah is not God or God-like so the NT
>has it screwed up...again. The Jews need another chance to worship a
>MAN GOD? Are you nuts? All Christianity is is the anthropormorphic
>version of Judaism. That means to make Judaism more palatable to the
>masses, God had to be walking among us and this human God had to have
>the answer to death. If not, how else could the whole thing be sold?
>And if Christianity were the TRUE religion, knowing the penchant of
>the Jews for mercantilism, they would have bought the idea,
>copyrighted it and made a fortune selling spinoff items such as
>crosses,statutes, automobile dashboard saints, baptismal fonts, habits
>etc.
>Another chance? My foot.
Yes, I believe scripture teaches that the nation of Israel will be
given another opportunity.
John W
>
>Iamhere
Cindy, Cindy, Cindy...
What percentage of the people who have lived on earth for the last 2000
years meet the criteria you have described? Let's say 10% for the sake of
argument.
That means that 90% of the people that have lived in the last 2000 have been
condemned to hell for eternity.
God created man.
God create these 'rules'
Therefore god, the infallible, created a system whereby 90% of his children
suffer for eternity.
Now, who would be interested in having 90% of a population spend eternity in
hell?
That would be Satan.
Ergo - your god is Satan.
Luckily, your nasty, evil god is not the one most of the world worhips. It
is the one crusaders assisted by torturing their victims into saying that
they accepted Jesus, then killed them to 'lock-in' their conversion.
Enjoy your Satinism.
Dave
"Cindy Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
> Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:53:18 -0700, "Jeff" <[email protected]>
Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:
nothing,,,just a mindless cross posting troll
PLONK
T.
>On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
>Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
>There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
Hello,
Yes, Jesus did certainly show that only going through him, could a
person reach God. Joh 14:6,
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
comes to the Father except through me."" (NIV)
But if your reference to "hell" means 'hellfire', I just wondered if
you were aware that the Bible does not teach of such a sadistic place.
First, God's inspired word clearly says the dead are not conscious and
therefore could not experience emotional or physical pain. Solomon,
under inspiration, wrote at Ec 9:5,10,
"5. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.
10. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in
the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning
nor knowledge nor wisdom." (NIV)
Concerning death, the Psalmist writes at Ps 146:4,
"His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his
thoughts perish." (NASB)
So there isn't an "immortal soul" that survives the body at death.
God's inspired word says that a soul can die, it is not immortal. The
prophet Ezekiel wrote under inspiration at Eze 18:4,
"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)
Second, Adam's punishment for disobedience was not continued life
somewhere else, but was death, nonexistence, "return to the ground".
(Ge 3:19)
The Bible says the penalty for sin is death. Not a life of torture.
Under inspiration, the Apostle Paul tells us in Ro 6:23,
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in
Christ Jesus our Lord." (NIV)
If a person dies he has paid for his sins. No further punishment is
needed. Paul says this at Ro 6:7,
"because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." (NIV)
The majority of mankind that have died are awaiting a resurrection.
Under inspiration, the disciple Luke wrote at Ac 24:15,
"and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a
resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)
Notice that the "wicked" are not burning in some 'hellfire' place, but
are awaiting a resurrection. So when they are resurrected God won't
hold them accountable for their past sins, because God had Paul write
the Bible truth, that "anyone" who "died" is "freed from sin". (Ro
6:7)
But some may object and point to Re 20:14,15 as 'proof' of hellfire.
Re 20:14,15 reads,
"14. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake
of fire is the second death. 15. If anyone's name was not found
written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
(NIV)
Does this not speak of a "hellfire"?
No. Notice that two items are thrown into this "lake of fire", death
and Hades. Can death be thrown somewhere or burned? No, Death is an
abstract concept, not a literal thing. And neither is that "lake of
fire" literal, as some would have you believe.
Please consider the above Scriptures, since they are the truth about
"hell". As Jesus put it at Joh 17:17,
"Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (NIV)
Sincerely, James
On Thu, 28 Aug 03 14:51:22 GMT, [email protected] (Jack) wrote:
>"For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth
> so that you won't imagine you know more than
>you actually do.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor
free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one
in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28
.
*****************************************************************
A preacher is the blind
leading the blind...
The Last Church
http://www.thelastchurch.org
[email protected]
alt.religion.thelastchurch
alt.religion.the-last-church
On 2 Oct 2003 07:11:40 GMT, John W <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 20:48:15 GMT, Aaron <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:08:08 GMT, "Generic Eric" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Are there posts about 35mm photo equipment at
>>>alt.religion.christian.baptist?
>>>
>>>Just curious.
>>>
>>>
>>>"James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> >On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>>>> >
>>>> >There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>>>> >God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>>>> >Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>>>> >will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>>>> >same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>>
>>So, you are claiming that Paul is damned for remaining Jewish all his
>>life despite his additional faith that Jesus is the Messiah? Paul
>>repeatedld said that he was Jewish AFTER he accepted Jesus. Paul even
>>offered blood offerings in the Temple in Acts 22.
>
>Paul did NOT "remain Jewish" his entire life. He preached AGAINST
>following the Old traditions, such as festivals, holidays, and
>Sabbaths.
No, Paul preach against Gentiles following THEIR old traditions.
He preached against being chained to man-made Laws which were
additions to Judaism, not Judaism. He identified himself as a Jew.
And he did offer blood sacrifice in the Temple. In short he followed
the teachings of Jesus, who taught only Judaism.
>
>Paul in fact led the charge for Christians to worship the Risen Christ
>on the day of the week He rose.
>>
>>Jesus even taught Judaism and nothing else.
>
>Jesus broke Sabbath too often to believe He strictly endorsed Judaism.
Jesus broke a man-made rule of Sabbath, but Kept all of God's
commandments of Sabbath.
>And His re-stating of the Christian version of the Seder pointed out
>GRAPHICALLY that the Jews had / have NEVER understood many of the
>symbols God gave them prophetically, like the REAL meaning of the
>Seder bread, the REAL meaning of the Seder wine, the REAL meaning of
>the 3-pocket sack used in the Seder observation.
John W, the was no "Christian version of the Seder," and there still
isn't. The Catholics adopted a Babylonian rite used in worshiping
their "sun-god," snd the Protestants have kept this "Communion."
Though you are half right in that Jesus taught the same "real" meaning
that the Pharisees taught about several of the elements of the Seder
>
>>Jesus never taught Christmas,
>
>Jesus may not have taught the first Christmas, but the 1st Christmas
>is in the Bible.
The first Christmas was in Babylon centuries earlier. It celebrates
the birth of Mithra, the Babylonian "sun-god." The Catholics
assimilated the Babylonian holiday in the Fourth Century CE.
>
>Easter,
>
>Jesus may not have taught Easter, but He didn't forbid observing the
>Resurrection.
The resurrection would be observed on the Biblical Holy Day when it
occurred (Yom HaBikkurim/Rishon HaOmer). Easter and Christmas are
both pagan holidays. Easter is the "hatchingday" of Easter, mother of
Mithra, and the source for Catholicism's "perpetual virgin" myth. As
such both pagan holidays cannot be "cleaned up" for worshiping God.
Such an attempt is forbidden in Deuteronomy 12.
>
>Lent, Communoion,
>
>Jesus DID teach communion when He gave the 12 the Lord's Supper.
No, Jesus modified the Passover Seder; Catholicism assimilated
Communion from the Baylnians. Again this is forbidden by Deuteronomy
12's prohibition against assimilating pagan rituals for use in
worshiping God.
>
>or sunday
>>worship.
>
>Jesus didn't mention Sunday worship because it doesn't matter to God
>WHAT day we worship; it matters THAT we worship. And Jesus and the
>Holy Spirit BOTH endorsed Sunday worship.
John W, you have ;lost the argument too many times to count.
Jesus did affirm that all the commandments would remain in full effect
until Heaven and earth were destroyed, which obviously has not
happened yet, or we would not be discussing this. Jesus and the
Spirit did endorce BIBLICAL annual Holy Days, such as Rishon Ha Omer,
and Shavuot, which COULD fall on Sunday and which did fall on Sunday
in the year of His resurrection.
>
>The night Jesus showed Thomas His scars was the Sunday evening He
>rose. And what were the disciples/apostles doing when Jesus appeared
>to them that Sunday evening? They were worshipping; Christian worship
>on Sunday. And He came and blessed their Sunday worship service with
>His presence.
The bible does not say that they were doing anything at all when jesus
came to them. Also, the Greek text says that it was EIGHT days after
Yon HaBikkurim, (the Sunday) when Jesus arose. Do the math. Start at
sunday and count forward eight days.
>
>In the same way, the Holy Spirit endorsed Sunday worship by coming
>upon the apostles (Pentecost SUNDAY) on Sunday during a Sunday morning
>worship service.
ANNUAL BIBLICAL Holy Day, not weekly worship.
>
>NOT ONE WORD of derision / correction was uttered either by Jesus or
>by the Holy Spirit when they came and found the disciples/apostles
>WORSHIPPING ON SUNDAY. NOT evangelism to the Jews; Sunday Christian
>worship.
So it was correct for the Disciples to give blood Offerings in the
Temple on Pentecost?
>
>
>Jesus celebrated Chanukkah, Sukkot, Passover, and went to
>>synagogue on Saturday, the Sabbath.
>
>Correct! Now read what Jesus was doing at the temple/synagogue on
>Sabbath. He was ministering to the Jews, who had gathered at the
>temple/synagogue. That's the day the most Jews were there. He went
>where the Jews were.
Of course He did, He is a JEW.
He also commanded His followers to observe these Holy Days in Matthew
5:17-19.
>
>
>John W
>
>
>>
>>Maybe you should rethink things before you try to tell me that Jesus
>>who is the most Jewish Jew of all time will burn in Hell.
>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Jesus did certainly show that only going through him, could a
>>>> person reach God. Joh 14:6,
>>>>
>>>> "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
>>>> comes to the Father except through me."" (NIV)
>>>>
>>>> But if your reference to "hell" means 'hellfire', I just wondered if
>>>> you were aware that the Bible does not teach of such a sadistic place.
>
>Jesus either lied, or there is a Hell.
>
>
>>>>
>>>> First, God's inspired word clearly says the dead are not conscious and
>>>> therefore could not experience emotional or physical pain. Solomon,
>>>> under inspiration, wrote at Ec 9:5,10,
>
>Find ONE verse that says the dead aren't conscious. The New Testament
>says they are.
>
>
>>>>
>>>> "5. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
>>>> they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.
>>>> 10. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in
>>>> the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning
>>>> nor knowledge nor wisdom." (NIV)
>>>>
>>>> Concerning death, the Psalmist writes at Ps 146:4,
>>>>
>>>> "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his
>>>> thoughts perish." (NASB)
>>>>
>>>> So there isn't an "immortal soul" that survives the body at death.
>>>> God's inspired word says that a soul can die, it is not immortal. The
>>>> prophet Ezekiel wrote under inspiration at Eze 18:4,
>>>>
>>>> "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
>>>> soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)
>>>>
>>>> Second, Adam's punishment for disobedience was not continued life
>>>> somewhere else, but was death, nonexistence, "return to the ground".
>>>> (Ge 3:19)
>>>>
>>>> The Bible says the penalty for sin is death. Not a life of torture.
>>>> Under inspiration, the Apostle Paul tells us in Ro 6:23,
>>>>
>>>> "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in
>>>> Christ Jesus our Lord." (NIV)
>>>>
>>>> If a person dies he has paid for his sins. No further punishment is
>>>> needed. Paul says this at Ro 6:7,
>>>>
>>>> "because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." (NIV)
>>>>
>>>> The majority of mankind that have died are awaiting a resurrection.
>>>> Under inspiration, the disciple Luke wrote at Ac 24:15,
>>>>
>>>> "and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a
>>>> resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)
>>>>
>>>> Notice that the "wicked" are not burning in some 'hellfire' place, but
>>>> are awaiting a resurrection. So when they are resurrected God won't
>>>> hold them accountable for their past sins, because God had Paul write
>>>> the Bible truth, that "anyone" who "died" is "freed from sin". (Ro
>>>> 6:7)
>>>>
>>>> But some may object and point to Re 20:14,15 as 'proof' of hellfire.
>>>> Re 20:14,15 reads,
>>>>
>>>> "14. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake
>>>> of fire is the second death. 15. If anyone's name was not found
>>>> written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
>>>> (NIV)
>>>>
>>>> Does this not speak of a "hellfire"?
>>>>
>>>> No. Notice that two items are thrown into this "lake of fire", death
>>>> and Hades. Can death be thrown somewhere or burned? No, Death is an
>>>> abstract concept, not a literal thing. And neither is that "lake of
>>>> fire" literal, as some would have you believe.
>>>>
>>>> Please consider the above Scriptures, since they are the truth about
>>>> "hell". As Jesus put it at Joh 17:17,
>>>>
>>>> "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (NIV)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely, James
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
> <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
>
in article [email protected], Cindy Duncan at
[email protected] wrote on 27/8/03 11:52 pm:
> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
Only Jews thought they were anyway, nobody else.
What it really said was 'Choosy people' but it got mistranslated by some
ancient scholar when he was pissed.
> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
> Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
Good Girl, you tell 'em.
You see, all those Christian Zionists are having one over on you Jews.
They agree you should have the right to return to the Holy Land.
But once you are there and the Messiah comes back, then you are all going to
die in a giant Battle of Armageddon unless you convert to Christ.
Oh yes, it's payback time to the Jews for banging JC up on a Cross.
Nice friends eh ?
So, next time they throw a local Christian Zionist prayer meeting, and ask
all you Jews to contribute, tell 'em to fuck off, they want to either
convert you or kill you.
Hilarious
MWC
Zalek Bloom wrote:
>>>On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> [...]
>
> Jews ARE considered the "chosen people", today more than ever.
> Many people CHOOSE to write about Jews an every possible internet
> forum.
At the same token, many Jews CHOOSE to write about everything an every
possible newspaper they own, and they own all of them !
> We are the chosen people - by Allmighty and by the Internet users like
> you.
Not by Allmighty God, but Allmighty "dollar".
Jerzy
> After all, if we think about it, God loved us enough to take human
> form and die in our stead.
>
John:
I hate to break it to you, but if you really think about that statement, it
is pretty ridiculous.
Why is this doing us a favor? If god created everthing, why did he need to
do a 'bait-and-switch' to save us? Why didn't he just do it? (oooh, the
mystery!)
Unfortunately, there are an infinite number of other equally implausible
stories. Why is:
'Then God sent junebugs, and each one that dies saves the soul of another
person'
or
' each raindrop that falls into the sea save a soul '
or
' Abe Lincoln was the unwitting son of god, and in his death he saved us all
'
or you name it. If god is all powerful, why use parlor tricks.
Dave
"John W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 29 Aug 03 14:45:55 GMT, [email protected] (Jack) wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, John W
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan)
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
> >>>
> >>>There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> >>>God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
> >>>Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> >>>will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> >>>same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
> >>
> >>You need to check that attitude with scripture, since the Old
> >>Testament says they ARE chosen, that status has NEVER been revoked,
> >>and if you did a systematic theology on the subject, we Christians are
> >>"grafted in", and "redeemed". We are NOT "chosen."
> >
> >John W, that is true, but a Gentile can become grafted into israel. Most
> >choose not to, but the option is there.
> >>
> >>If you dug deeper, the Bible ALSO says the Jews will be given another
> >>chance. I've heard that since I was a child, and while I can't give
> >>you the exact reference, I recently found it. (I have no memory for
> >>scripture references.)
> >
> >Romans 11 says that "All Israel will be saved." Some people think that
the
> >Jews who live when Messiah returns are the ones spoken of here. Others
say
> >"all means all," and that the Jews who die without knowing Jesus will be
given
> >a second chance before they are judged. I say that God always does the
right
> >thing and cuts us more slack than we deserve. I will not jugde their
> >salvation, but the ststus of the Jews as God's Chosen people is without
> >question.
> >
> >
> How *I* put it is that God is much nicer to us than we are to
> ourselves or each other.
> After all, if we think about it, God loved us enough to take human
> form and die in our stead.
>
> JOhn W
> >
> >
> >>
> >>John W
> >>
> >>______________________________________________________________________
>
In article <[email protected]>, John W
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> How *I* put it is that God is much nicer to us than we are to
> ourselves or each other.
> After all, if we think about it, God loved us enough to take human
> form and die in our stead.
>
> JOhn W
> >
What the hell for?
Since in your theology it is God who imposes the penalty (unless like St
Paul you believe in higher powers than God) he is perfectly capable of
commuting the sentence without this ridiculous charade of having his son
nailed up and then saying it is himself via the "mystery of the trinity"
You seem to believe in a really DOPEY God who talks nonsense!
But I guess you are a product of what you were taught
(sigh)
In article <[email protected]>, John W
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Yes, I believe scripture teaches that the nation of Israel will be
> given another opportunity.
>
> John W
Hardly surprising since they wrote most of it
+
In article <[email protected]>, John W
<[email protected]> wrote:
. (I have no memory for
> scripture references.)
>
> John W
>
We've noticed
The same seems to apply to your medication
+
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 20:48:15 GMT, Aaron <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:08:08 GMT, "Generic Eric" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Are there posts about 35mm photo equipment at
>>alt.religion.christian.baptist?
>>
>>Just curious.
>>
>>
>>"James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> >On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
>>>
>>> >Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>>> >
>>> >There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>>> >God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>>> >Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>>> >will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>>> >same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>
>So, you are claiming that Paul is damned for remaining Jewish all his
>life despite his additional faith that Jesus is the Messiah? Paul
>repeatedld said that he was Jewish AFTER he accepted Jesus. Paul even
>offered blood offerings in the Temple in Acts 22.
Paul did NOT "remain Jewish" his entire life. He preached AGAINST
following the Old traditions, such as festivals, holidays, and
Sabbaths.
Paul in fact led the charge for Christians to worship the Risen Christ
on the day of the week He rose.
>
>Jesus even taught Judaism and nothing else.
Jesus broke Sabbath too often to believe He strictly endorsed Judaism.
And His re-stating of the Christian version of the Seder pointed out
GRAPHICALLY that the Jews had / have NEVER understood many of the
symbols God gave them prophetically, like the REAL meaning of the
Seder bread, the REAL meaning of the Seder wine, the REAL meaning of
the 3-pocket sack used in the Seder observation.
>Jesus never taught Christmas,
Jesus may not have taught the first Christmas, but the 1st Christmas
is in the Bible.
Easter,
Jesus may not have taught Easter, but He didn't forbid observing the
Resurrection.
Lent, Communoion,
Jesus DID teach communion when He gave the 12 the Lord's Supper.
or sunday
>worship.
Jesus didn't mention Sunday worship because it doesn't matter to God
WHAT day we worship; it matters THAT we worship. And Jesus and the
Holy Spirit BOTH endorsed Sunday worship.
The night Jesus showed Thomas His scars was the Sunday evening He
rose. And what were the disciples/apostles doing when Jesus appeared
to them that Sunday evening? They were worshipping; Christian worship
on Sunday. And He came and blessed their Sunday worship service with
His presence.
In the same way, the Holy Spirit endorsed Sunday worship by coming
upon the apostles (Pentecost SUNDAY) on Sunday during a Sunday morning
worship service.
NOT ONE WORD of derision / correction was uttered either by Jesus or
by the Holy Spirit when they came and found the disciples/apostles
WORSHIPPING ON SUNDAY. NOT evangelism to the Jews; Sunday Christian
worship.
Jesus celebrated Chanukkah, Sukkot, Passover, and went to
>synagogue on Saturday, the Sabbath.
Correct! Now read what Jesus was doing at the temple/synagogue on
Sabbath. He was ministering to the Jews, who had gathered at the
temple/synagogue. That's the day the most Jews were there. He went
where the Jews were.
John W
>
>Maybe you should rethink things before you try to tell me that Jesus
>who is the most Jewish Jew of all time will burn in Hell.
>
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Yes, Jesus did certainly show that only going through him, could a
>>> person reach God. Joh 14:6,
>>>
>>> "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
>>> comes to the Father except through me."" (NIV)
>>>
>>> But if your reference to "hell" means 'hellfire', I just wondered if
>>> you were aware that the Bible does not teach of such a sadistic place.
Jesus either lied, or there is a Hell.
>>>
>>> First, God's inspired word clearly says the dead are not conscious and
>>> therefore could not experience emotional or physical pain. Solomon,
>>> under inspiration, wrote at Ec 9:5,10,
Find ONE verse that says the dead aren't conscious. The New Testament
says they are.
>>>
>>> "5. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
>>> they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.
>>> 10. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in
>>> the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning
>>> nor knowledge nor wisdom." (NIV)
>>>
>>> Concerning death, the Psalmist writes at Ps 146:4,
>>>
>>> "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his
>>> thoughts perish." (NASB)
>>>
>>> So there isn't an "immortal soul" that survives the body at death.
>>> God's inspired word says that a soul can die, it is not immortal. The
>>> prophet Ezekiel wrote under inspiration at Eze 18:4,
>>>
>>> "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
>>> soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)
>>>
>>> Second, Adam's punishment for disobedience was not continued life
>>> somewhere else, but was death, nonexistence, "return to the ground".
>>> (Ge 3:19)
>>>
>>> The Bible says the penalty for sin is death. Not a life of torture.
>>> Under inspiration, the Apostle Paul tells us in Ro 6:23,
>>>
>>> "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in
>>> Christ Jesus our Lord." (NIV)
>>>
>>> If a person dies he has paid for his sins. No further punishment is
>>> needed. Paul says this at Ro 6:7,
>>>
>>> "because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." (NIV)
>>>
>>> The majority of mankind that have died are awaiting a resurrection.
>>> Under inspiration, the disciple Luke wrote at Ac 24:15,
>>>
>>> "and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a
>>> resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)
>>>
>>> Notice that the "wicked" are not burning in some 'hellfire' place, but
>>> are awaiting a resurrection. So when they are resurrected God won't
>>> hold them accountable for their past sins, because God had Paul write
>>> the Bible truth, that "anyone" who "died" is "freed from sin". (Ro
>>> 6:7)
>>>
>>> But some may object and point to Re 20:14,15 as 'proof' of hellfire.
>>> Re 20:14,15 reads,
>>>
>>> "14. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake
>>> of fire is the second death. 15. If anyone's name was not found
>>> written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
>>> (NIV)
>>>
>>> Does this not speak of a "hellfire"?
>>>
>>> No. Notice that two items are thrown into this "lake of fire", death
>>> and Hades. Can death be thrown somewhere or burned? No, Death is an
>>> abstract concept, not a literal thing. And neither is that "lake of
>>> fire" literal, as some would have you believe.
>>>
>>> Please consider the above Scriptures, since they are the truth about
>>> "hell". As Jesus put it at Joh 17:17,
>>>
>>> "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (NIV)
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely, James
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
Do you know there is no heaven no hell and no God at all? & Jesus has died
long time ago.
I did not know there was Vienna beside the Big Apple...
Do you know that Aussie Emma Duncan?
Do you enjoy spanking Cindy?
No religion no wars....make love not wars....
U¿ytkownik "Cindy Duncan" <[email protected]> napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
news:[email protected]...
> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
> Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
"Cindy Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
> Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
> will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
> same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>
This may be true, however my heart goes for Jesus himself; i.e. he was a
full 100 percent kosher Jew all his life, even died as a jew. So how do we
redeem Lord Jesus' soul???
-Z.
Nielegalny uzytkownik pirackiego Windows "Zalek Bloom" <[email protected]> , ( sprawa w trakcie wyjasniania
news:[email protected]) nie skorzystal z prawa odmowy zeznan i pograza sie dalej :
| > >On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
| >>
| >> >Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
| [...]
|
| Jews ARE considered the "chosen people", today more than ever.
| Many people CHOOSE to write about Jews an every possible internet
| forum.
| We are the chosen people - by Allmighty and by the Internet users like
| you.
********************
That`s a fact, man.
Problem, though, is... in what MANNER you are being reffered to.
If I were ( was - if was living in NY ) you, I maybe wouldn`t even..... ;-)
KOL
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:08:08 GMT, "Generic Eric" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Are there posts about 35mm photo equipment at
>alt.religion.christian.baptist?
>
>Just curious.
>
>
>"James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> >On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
>>
>> >Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>> >
>> >There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>> >God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>> >Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>> >will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>> >same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
So, you are claiming that Paul is damned for remaining Jewish all his
life despite his additional faith that Jesus is the Messiah? Paul
repeatedld said that he was Jewish AFTER he accepted Jesus. Paul even
offered blood offerings in the Temple in Acts 22.
Jesus even taught Judaism and nothing else.
Jesus never taught Christmas, Easter, Lent, Communoion, or sunday
worship. Jesus celebrated Chanukkah, Sukkot, Passover, and went to
synagogue on Saturday, the Sabbath.
Maybe you should rethink things before you try to tell me that Jesus
who is the most Jewish Jew of all time will burn in Hell.
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Yes, Jesus did certainly show that only going through him, could a
>> person reach God. Joh 14:6,
>>
>> "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
>> comes to the Father except through me."" (NIV)
>>
>> But if your reference to "hell" means 'hellfire', I just wondered if
>> you were aware that the Bible does not teach of such a sadistic place.
>>
>> First, God's inspired word clearly says the dead are not conscious and
>> therefore could not experience emotional or physical pain. Solomon,
>> under inspiration, wrote at Ec 9:5,10,
>>
>> "5. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
>> they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.
>> 10. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in
>> the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning
>> nor knowledge nor wisdom." (NIV)
>>
>> Concerning death, the Psalmist writes at Ps 146:4,
>>
>> "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his
>> thoughts perish." (NASB)
>>
>> So there isn't an "immortal soul" that survives the body at death.
>> God's inspired word says that a soul can die, it is not immortal. The
>> prophet Ezekiel wrote under inspiration at Eze 18:4,
>>
>> "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
>> soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)
>>
>> Second, Adam's punishment for disobedience was not continued life
>> somewhere else, but was death, nonexistence, "return to the ground".
>> (Ge 3:19)
>>
>> The Bible says the penalty for sin is death. Not a life of torture.
>> Under inspiration, the Apostle Paul tells us in Ro 6:23,
>>
>> "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in
>> Christ Jesus our Lord." (NIV)
>>
>> If a person dies he has paid for his sins. No further punishment is
>> needed. Paul says this at Ro 6:7,
>>
>> "because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." (NIV)
>>
>> The majority of mankind that have died are awaiting a resurrection.
>> Under inspiration, the disciple Luke wrote at Ac 24:15,
>>
>> "and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a
>> resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)
>>
>> Notice that the "wicked" are not burning in some 'hellfire' place, but
>> are awaiting a resurrection. So when they are resurrected God won't
>> hold them accountable for their past sins, because God had Paul write
>> the Bible truth, that "anyone" who "died" is "freed from sin". (Ro
>> 6:7)
>>
>> But some may object and point to Re 20:14,15 as 'proof' of hellfire.
>> Re 20:14,15 reads,
>>
>> "14. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake
>> of fire is the second death. 15. If anyone's name was not found
>> written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
>> (NIV)
>>
>> Does this not speak of a "hellfire"?
>>
>> No. Notice that two items are thrown into this "lake of fire", death
>> and Hades. Can death be thrown somewhere or burned? No, Death is an
>> abstract concept, not a literal thing. And neither is that "lake of
>> fire" literal, as some would have you believe.
>>
>> Please consider the above Scriptures, since they are the truth about
>> "hell". As Jesus put it at Joh 17:17,
>>
>> "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (NIV)
>>
>>
>> Sincerely, James
>>
>>
>>
>
> >On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
>>
>> >Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
[...]
Jews ARE considered the "chosen people", today more than ever.
Many people CHOOSE to write about Jews an every possible internet
forum.
We are the chosen people - by Allmighty and by the Internet users like
you.
Zalek
On Fri, 29 Aug 03 14:45:55 GMT, [email protected] (Jack) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, John W <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>>>
>>>There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>>>God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>>>Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>>>will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>>>same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>>
>>You need to check that attitude with scripture, since the Old
>>Testament says they ARE chosen, that status has NEVER been revoked,
>>and if you did a systematic theology on the subject, we Christians are
>>"grafted in", and "redeemed". We are NOT "chosen."
>
>John W, that is true, but a Gentile can become grafted into israel. Most
>choose not to, but the option is there.
>>
>>If you dug deeper, the Bible ALSO says the Jews will be given another
>>chance. I've heard that since I was a child, and while I can't give
>>you the exact reference, I recently found it. (I have no memory for
>>scripture references.)
>
>Romans 11 says that "All Israel will be saved." Some people think that the
>Jews who live when Messiah returns are the ones spoken of here. Others say
>"all means all," and that the Jews who die without knowing Jesus will be given
>a second chance before they are judged. I say that God always does the right
>thing and cuts us more slack than we deserve. I will not jugde their
>salvation, but the ststus of the Jews as God's Chosen people is without
>question.
>
>
How *I* put it is that God is much nicer to us than we are to
ourselves or each other.
After all, if we think about it, God loved us enough to take human
form and die in our stead.
JOhn W
>
>
>>
>>John W
>>
>>______________________________________________________________________
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:13:47 GMT, "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Cindy, Cindy, Cindy...
>
>What percentage of the people who have lived on earth for the last 2000
>years meet the criteria you have described? Let's say 10% for the sake of
>argument.
>
>That means that 90% of the people that have lived in the last 2000 have been
>condemned to hell for eternity.
>
>God created man.
>
>God create these 'rules'
>
>Therefore god, the infallible, created a system whereby 90% of his children
>suffer for eternity.
That is a bad and false interpretation. If you are open minded enough
to be corrected, ask, and I'll try to explain.
John W
>
>Now, who would be interested in having 90% of a population spend eternity in
>hell?
>
>That would be Satan.
>
>Ergo - your god is Satan.
>
>Luckily, your nasty, evil god is not the one most of the world worhips. It
>is the one crusaders assisted by torturing their victims into saying that
>they accepted Jesus, then killed them to 'lock-in' their conversion.
>
>Enjoy your Satinism.
>
>Dave
>
>
>"Cindy Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>>
>> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>> God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>> Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>> will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>> same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>
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In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan) wrote:
>Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
According to Romans 11:25-29 The Jews will always be God's Chosen people.
"For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly
concealed but has now revealed, so that you won't imagine you know more than
you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Israel,
until the Gentile world enters in its fullness; and that it is in this way
that all Israel will be saved. As the Tanakh says,
'Out of Tziyon will come the Redeemer;
he will turn away ungodliness from Ya'akov
and this will be my covenant with them,
when I take away their sins.'
With respect to the Good News they are hated for your sake. But with respect
to being chosen they are loved for the Patriarchs' sake, for God's free gifts
and his calling are irrevocable."
>
>There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
And given the Gentiles the privilage of becoming grafted into His Chosen
people Israel, though most Christians reject this offer.
>Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
Jesus IS a Jew. you are calling Jesus "a mortal sinner." Whatever "mortal
sinner" is supposed to mean in your mythology.
In article <[email protected]>, "Z." <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Cindy Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>>
>> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>> God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>> Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>> will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>> same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>>
>This may be true, however my heart goes for Jesus himself; i.e. he was a
>full 100 percent kosher Jew all his life, even died as a jew. So how do we
>redeem Lord Jesus' soul???
>-Z.
According to the New Testament, it is NOT true.
In article <[email protected]>, John W <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan)
>wrote:
>
>>Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>>
>>There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>>God. Since then, Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>>Anyone who still considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and
>>will be condmened to hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The
>>same applies to muslims, and other non-believers.
>
>You need to check that attitude with scripture, since the Old
>Testament says they ARE chosen, that status has NEVER been revoked,
>and if you did a systematic theology on the subject, we Christians are
>"grafted in", and "redeemed". We are NOT "chosen."
John W, that is true, but a Gentile can become grafted into israel. Most
choose not to, but the option is there.
>
>If you dug deeper, the Bible ALSO says the Jews will be given another
>chance. I've heard that since I was a child, and while I can't give
>you the exact reference, I recently found it. (I have no memory for
>scripture references.)
Romans 11 says that "All Israel will be saved." Some people think that the
Jews who live when Messiah returns are the ones spoken of here. Others say
"all means all," and that the Jews who die without knowing Jesus will be given
a second chance before they are judged. I say that God always does the right
thing and cuts us more slack than we deserve. I will not jugde their
salvation, but the ststus of the Jews as God's Chosen people is without
question.
>
>John W
>
>______________________________________________________________________
That is far from Catholic, Catholic tells you that you have to go though a
priest. If you read a NIV Bible you might as well read the HIV Bible as
well. Use a translation not an interpretation. Ryan
"Yas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >On 27 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan)
wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> Hi
>
> > Yes, Jesus did certainly show that only going through him, could a
> > person reach God. Joh 14:6,
> >
> Bah! this is just catholic crap made up centuries after the resurection!
>
> > "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
> > comes to the Father except through me."" (NIV)
> >
>
> No he didn't, some crooked prisient years and years after made that up to
> suite the new religion he was making up!! and make up for all the true
> teaching of Jesus which were lost!!
>
>
>
> > But if your reference to "hell" means 'hellfire', I just wondered if
> > you were aware that the Bible does not teach of such a sadistic place.
> >
> > First, God's inspired word clearly says the dead are not conscious and
> > therefore could not experience emotional or physical pain. Solomon,
> > under inspiration, wrote at Ec 9:5,10,
> >
> > "5. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
> > they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.
> > 10. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in
> > the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning
> > nor knowledge nor wisdom." (NIV)
> >
> > Concerning death, the Psalmist writes at Ps 146:4,
> >
> > "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his
> > thoughts perish." (NASB)
> >
> > So there isn't an "immortal soul" that survives the body at death.
> > God's inspired word says that a soul can die, it is not immortal. The
> > prophet Ezekiel wrote under inspiration at Eze 18:4,
> >
> > "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
> > soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)
> >
> > Second, Adam's punishment for disobedience was not continued life
> > somewhere else, but was death, nonexistence, "return to the ground".
> > (Ge 3:19)
> >
> > The Bible says the penalty for sin is death. Not a life of torture.
> > Under inspiration, the Apostle Paul tells us in Ro 6:23,
> >
> > "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in
> > Christ Jesus our Lord." (NIV)
> >
> > If a person dies he has paid for his sins. No further punishment is
> > needed. Paul says this at Ro 6:7,
> >
> > "because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." (NIV)
> >
> > The majority of mankind that have died are awaiting a resurrection.
> > Under inspiration, the disciple Luke wrote at Ac 24:15,
> >
> > "and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a
> > resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)
> >
> > Notice that the "wicked" are not burning in some 'hellfire' place, but
> > are awaiting a resurrection. So when they are resurrected God won't
> > hold them accountable for their past sins, because God had Paul write
> > the Bible truth, that "anyone" who "died" is "freed from sin". (Ro
> > 6:7)
> >
> > But some may object and point to Re 20:14,15 as 'proof' of hellfire.
> > Re 20:14,15 reads,
> >
> > "14. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake
> > of fire is the second death. 15. If anyone's name was not found
> > written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
> > (NIV)
> >
> > Does this not speak of a "hellfire"?
> >
> > No. Notice that two items are thrown into this "lake of fire", death
> > and Hades. Can death be thrown somewhere or burned? No, Death is an
> > abstract concept, not a literal thing. And neither is that "lake of
> > fire" literal, as some would have you believe.
> >
> > Please consider the above Scriptures, since they are the truth about
> > "hell". As Jesus put it at Joh 17:17,
> >
> > "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (NIV)
> >
> >
> > Sincerely, James
> >
> >
> >
>
>