I've pretty well weened myself off of pine except for some trinket stuff and
have mainly been using red oak. After running it through the planer and
getting it sized. I start with 100, 120, 150 & 220 grit using the PC RAS.
The wood feels pretty smooth but after the finishing is done I can run my
hand across the wood and feel the texture or the grain of the wood. I'm
wanting to build the A&C Library desk that David Marks built and a rough
surface on a desktop would not work. Is there something else I need to do or
should I use white oak?
Thanks, Mike
--
Mike S.
[email protected]
http://members.tripod.com/n0yii/woodworking.htm
Poly is varnish. Just a urethane versus alkyd or other resin to harden the
oil.
I'm not a fan of slurry sanding. With red oak you can use an oil-based
filler which will give a fast and crisp fill, and can use it with your
oil-based stain.
"RKG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> As far as varnish and poly being interchangable I don't know. I've only
> been woodworking for just over 2 years since I retired and there is a lot
I
> don't know about finishing.
Actually with the wet sanding technique used in the FWW article you do not
get a gloss finish at all. You wind up with a satin finish and silky
smooth.
As far as varnish and poly being interchangable I don't know. I've only
been woodworking for just over 2 years since I retired and there is a lot I
don't know about finishing. I tried this technique because 1. I liked the
idea of being able to keep working in the shop and not having to worry about
a little dust getting on the finish (I don't have a separate room for
finishing) and 2. No extra equipment was needed over what I already had.
Haven't tried staining as I liked the results on oak by itself. With the
sanding afterwards not sure what it would do. Will have to give it a try on
some scrap pieces to see.
I'm sure there are things this technique and varnish will not be suitable
for but so far I like it.
Rick
"MikeG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, n0y
> [email protected] says...
> > Thanks for the info, if I go with the spar varnish technique from FWW
should
> > I stain it first since the varnish will be clear? Also Going to several
> > websites they use varnish and poly interchangable. The same thing with
> > different names??
> > Thanks
> >
> >
>
>
> Spar varnish can, because it is a long oil varnish, be problematic if
> you want to rub it out. I don't remember if you mentioned what you are
> building but if it isn't for outdoors there is no real reason to use
> spar varnish. It won't hurt anything if you do, it's just a pain in the
> ass to get too a high gloss.
>
> Not as much of a pain in the ass as poly is though. Yes, by generally
> accepted definition, poly is s varnish. A surface finish consisting of a
> drying oil, a thinner/carrier, and resins. The difference from the low
> test stuff is that the resins in poly form a stronger bond making it
> more scratch and spill resistant. Also brittle and, as previously
> stated, a pain to rub out.
>
> The low test stuff is bad enough without the problems presented by
> either spar or poly varnish. If the application doesn't call for that
> much protection your better off not using either.
>
> Truth be told, if the application doesn't call for that much protection
> my advise is to avoid varnish completely and, depending on the look you
> want, go with shellac or lacquer, preferably Danish.
>
> --
> MikeG
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> [email protected]
In article <[email protected]>, n0y
[email protected] says...
> I've pretty well weened myself off of pine except for some trinket stuff and
> have mainly been using red oak. After running it through the planer and
> getting it sized. I start with 100, 120, 150 & 220 grit using the PC RAS.
> The wood feels pretty smooth but after the finishing is done I can run my
> hand across the wood and feel the texture or the grain of the wood. I'm
> wanting to build the A&C Library desk that David Marks built and a rough
> surface on a desktop would not work. Is there something else I need to do or
> should I use white oak?
> Thanks, Mike
>
You can sand some woods, mahogany, walnut, oak, comes to mind, all day
long and it is still not going to be smooth. Unlike, say maple, the cell
structure is such that those woods are open pored. No matter what you do
the raw wood is always going to be what you see now.
With an oil finish it usually doesn't matter since most of the time you
are looking for a natural feel and look to the wood.
For a surface finish you have to fill the pores to the point where they
are level with the surface of the surrounding wood. The process is a
matter of applying a pore filler and sanding it back until the whole
surface is level. Without, of course, sanding all the filler off. It may
take more then one coat.
For a filler you can use a one or two pound cut of de waxed shellac, a
very thin version of the finish you are going too use, or a commercial
pore/wood filler.
If you are going to stain it is usually best to stain first but then you
have to be very careful not to sand through the stain when leveling the
filler.
If using a commercial filler you have to be careful and either select
one that approximates the color you want to achieve or a clear filler.
I usually opt for crystalc clear drying filler
http://store.yahoo.com/squaredrive/finishing-supplies---equipment-
crystalac-clear-paste-filler.html .
--
MikeG
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
[email protected]
In article <[email protected]>, n0y
[email protected] says...
> Thanks for the info, if I go with the spar varnish technique from FWW should
> I stain it first since the varnish will be clear? Also Going to several
> websites they use varnish and poly interchangable. The same thing with
> different names??
> Thanks
>
>
Spar varnish can, because it is a long oil varnish, be problematic if
you want to rub it out. I don't remember if you mentioned what you are
building but if it isn't for outdoors there is no real reason to use
spar varnish. It won't hurt anything if you do, it's just a pain in the
ass to get too a high gloss.
Not as much of a pain in the ass as poly is though. Yes, by generally
accepted definition, poly is s varnish. A surface finish consisting of a
drying oil, a thinner/carrier, and resins. The difference from the low
test stuff is that the resins in poly form a stronger bond making it
more scratch and spill resistant. Also brittle and, as previously
stated, a pain to rub out.
The low test stuff is bad enough without the problems presented by
either spar or poly varnish. If the application doesn't call for that
much protection your better off not using either.
Truth be told, if the application doesn't call for that much protection
my advise is to avoid varnish completely and, depending on the look you
want, go with shellac or lacquer, preferably Danish.
--
MikeG
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
[email protected]
you could use pore filler to solve your problem.
David
Mike S. wrote:
> I've pretty well weened myself off of pine except for some trinket stuff and
> have mainly been using red oak. After running it through the planer and
> getting it sized. I start with 100, 120, 150 & 220 grit using the PC RAS.
> The wood feels pretty smooth but after the finishing is done I can run my
> hand across the wood and feel the texture or the grain of the wood. I'm
> wanting to build the A&C Library desk that David Marks built and a rough
> surface on a desktop would not work. Is there something else I need to do or
> should I use white oak?
> Thanks, Mike
As Anthony mentioned wet sanding works great, here is the link to the
article in Fine Woodworking
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00117.asp
I work mainly with oak and walnut and this method works great. You get a
nice silky smooth surface with the grain showing nicely.
Rick
"Anthony VanCampen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 12:57:52 +0000, Mike S. wrote:
> There was a neat finishing method for open grain woods like oak in a Fine
> Woodworking about a year ago. Varnish is fooded on to the surface and then
> sanded in. The sandpaper make an oak sawdust slurry with the varnish, then
> you wipe off the excess. Repeating the process with 180, 220 and 300 is
> sand paper. Once the grain is filled you could continue to build and
> polish coats.
>
> Tigger
>
Mike,
A BIG warning about 'Spar' varnish . . . it NEVER gets HARD. It is supposed
to remain flexible so the 'spar' can move without breaking the
weather-sealing finish.
Also, Spar, and most of the other varnishes are NOT 'clear', but actually
amber in tone. Again, this is part of their function - to protect
weather-exposed wood from UV damage, while allowing the wood itself to be
inspected for any physical damage.
A number of the 'interior use' varnishes are both clear and lack UV
additives. These are typically 'short oil' varnishes - and DO cure 'hard'.
However, for your use - the writing surface of a desk, as I understand it -
I use & recommend a Poly {water-based or Acrylic is my personal choice}.
They tend to finish so clear that they are considered 'cool' in tone. {some
people add an amber tint to 'warm' them}. While they have NO UV inhibiting
qualities at all, they do dry/cure amazingly hard. I finished the top of a
'working' cabinet for our kitchen about 6 years ago. Maple, with the pore's
filled, and about 4 thin coats of 'PolyCrylic'{?}. {applied with my usual
'varnish technique' of finer & finer sanding between coats} Looks like the
day it was finished.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"Mike S." wrote ...
> Thanks for the info, if I go with the spar varnish technique . . .
AND, you sand between coats.
I havent mastered the scraper, but scraping would help.
What you feel are tiny fibers raised by the sanding and varnishing. Once
there's a coat or two of varnish, they get sheared off and covered. Getting
a glasslike finish takes time and effort! Waterbased poly is great for
drying, just a few hours and you can sand, but oilbased has a nice color and
builds thickness faster. The oilbased has to dry at least overnight. I've
used a lot of waterbased, just out of laziness. It's easy to clean up!
Oilbased can be sanded with fine steel wool to produce a smooth surface but
waterbased will rust the minute steel wool bits left behind, they say on the
can. The things I've been happiest with were done with oilbased poly and
steel wool. I think the steel wool shears the fibers like a scraper.
Wilson
"Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've pretty well weened myself off of pine except for some trinket stuff
and
> have mainly been using red oak. After running it through the planer and
> getting it sized. I start with 100, 120, 150 & 220 grit using the PC RAS.
> The wood feels pretty smooth but after the finishing is done I can run my
> hand across the wood and feel the texture or the grain of the wood. I'm
> wanting to build the A&C Library desk that David Marks built and a rough
> surface on a desktop would not work. Is there something else I need to do
or
> should I use white oak?
> Thanks, Mike
> --
> Mike S.
> [email protected]
> http://members.tripod.com/n0yii/woodworking.htm
>
>
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:39:03 GMT, "Ron Magen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Mike,
>A BIG warning about 'Spar' varnish . . . it NEVER gets HARD. It is supposed
>to remain flexible so the 'spar' can move without breaking the
>weather-sealing finish.
>
>Also, Spar, and most of the other varnishes are NOT 'clear', but actually
>amber in tone. Again, this is part of their function - to protect
>weather-exposed wood from UV damage, while allowing the wood itself to be
>inspected for any physical damage.
>
>A number of the 'interior use' varnishes are both clear and lack UV
>additives. These are typically 'short oil' varnishes - and DO cure 'hard'.
>
>However, for your use - the writing surface of a desk, as I understand it -
>I use & recommend a Poly {water-based or Acrylic is my personal choice}.
>They tend to finish so clear that they are considered 'cool' in tone. {some
>people add an amber tint to 'warm' them}. While they have NO UV inhibiting
>qualities at all,
you sure about that?
<http://compliantspraysystems.com/enduro_water_base_coatings/exterior_interior_poly.htm>
> they do dry/cure amazingly hard. I finished the top of a
>'working' cabinet for our kitchen about 6 years ago. Maple, with the pore's
>filled, and about 4 thin coats of 'PolyCrylic'{?}. {applied with my usual
>'varnish technique' of finer & finer sanding between coats} Looks like the
>day it was finished.
>
>Regards & Good Luck,
>Ron Magen
>Backyard Boatshop
>
>"Mike S." wrote ...
>> Thanks for the info, if I go with the spar varnish technique . . .
>
>
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 12:57:52 +0000, Mike S. wrote:
> I've pretty well weened myself off of pine except for some trinket stuff and
> have mainly been using red oak. After running it through the planer and
> getting it sized. I start with 100, 120, 150 & 220 grit using the PC RAS.
> The wood feels pretty smooth but after the finishing is done I can run my
> hand across the wood and feel the texture or the grain of the wood. I'm
> wanting to build the A&C Library desk that David Marks built and a rough
> surface on a desktop would not work. Is there something else I need to do or
> should I use white oak?
> Thanks, Mike
There was a neat finishing method for open grain woods like oak in a Fine
Woodworking about a year ago. Varnish is fooded on to the surface and then
sanded in. The sandpaper make an oak sawdust slurry with the varnish, then
you wipe off the excess. Repeating the process with 180, 220 and 300 is
sand paper. Once the grain is filled you could continue to build and
polish coats.
Tigger
Thanks for the info, if I go with the spar varnish technique from FWW should
I stain it first since the varnish will be clear? Also Going to several
websites they use varnish and poly interchangable. The same thing with
different names??
Thanks
--
Mike S.
[email protected]
http://members.tripod.com/n0yii/woodworking.htm
'Bridger',
There are almost always some 'specialty' products, with specific application
techniques, high cost, or other factors. Or something that 'just came out
last week'.
I try to point to products that I have had DIRECT experience with, are
commonly available, and usually not that expensive. That being said, it's
always nice to get info on some special material or product. The computer
has 'fed' my packrat habit. I've got several disks filled with notes,
web-sites, & scanned images of stuff for 'future reference & use'.
Thanks,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
<[email protected]> wrote
SNIP
While they have NO UV inhibiting qualities at all,
>
> you sure about that?
>
<http://compliantspraysystems.com/enduro_water_base_coatings/exterior_interi
or_poly.htm>
>