About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. The wood is
dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. The leg is fastened to
the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. I glued both dowels
with titebond 2.
Yesterday the leg and post came back. It had come off again. The
glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. Any ideas why
yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? Would residue
of hide glue do this?
--
GW Ross
Attention: Mu'ad Dib, your sandworm,
124C, is blocking the driveway.
dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 6/8/2013 4:30 PM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> the glue that you used was probably sealed in an air tight and sealed from
>> bare wood situation. Basically no where for the moisture in the glue to
>> go.
>
> For 6 months??? Nah...I'm not buying that.
>
> --
Umm glue does not cure in the air tight bottle after several tears. How
else would you explain the glue not curing.
"G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote:
> G. Ross wrote:
>> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. The wood is
>> dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. The leg is fastened to
>> the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. I glued both dowels
>> with titebond 2.
>>
>> Yesterday the leg and post came back. It had come off again. The
>> glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. Any ideas why
>> yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? Would residue
>> of hide glue do this?
>>
> I posted a picture on abpw. This is from an old Duncan Pfyffe double
> pedestal table. It belongs to a retired military family and has been
> around the world with them. Apparently on the front lines. The legs
> have been replaced using big screws, 10 penny nails, finish nails, etc.
> I had to pull out a 10d common nail before I could get into the joint.
That looks like a more modern preglued dowel. The type glue I am thinking
about is activated by radio
frequency.
Back to your soft glue that did not set up and my previous comment about
the old glue still being present. Typical wood glue has to soak into the
wood to cure. If there was still a layer of the old glue sealing the hole
the glue that you used was probably sealed in an air tight and sealed from
bare wood situation. Basically no where for the moisture in the glue to
go.
On Saturday, June 8, 2013 4:34:02 PM UTC-5, woodchucker wrote:
> Sounds about right, and like you suspected I think the hide glue is react=
ing with the titebond causing the blue hue... -- Jeff
I doubt the Titebond-Hide (old) glue is reacting. I've never seen anything=
as that.
Another possibility: Your initial repair didn't hold, possibly because of =
old glue remaining in the hole and the new glue didn't bond properly. The =
table owner tried to use their (there, they're, thar) kid's (blue colored) =
craft glue to repair it, and didn't tell you they tried to repair it that w=
ay.
Sonny
G. Ross wrote:
> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. The wood is
> dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. The leg is fastened to
> the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. I glued both dowels
> with titebond 2.
>
> Yesterday the leg and post came back. It had come off again. The
> glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. Any ideas why
> yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? Would residue
> of hide glue do this?
>
I posted a picture on abpw. This is from an old Duncan Pfyffe double
pedestal table. It belongs to a retired military family and has been
around the world with them. Apparently on the front lines. The legs
have been replaced using big screws, 10 penny nails, finish nails,
etc. I had to pull out a 10d common nail before I could get into the
joint.
--
GW Ross
Attention: Mu'ad Dib, your sandworm,
124C, is blocking the driveway.
On 6/8/2013 10:47 AM, G. Ross wrote:
> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. The wood is dark
> and fine-grained and looks like cherry. The leg is fastened to the
> upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. I glued both dowels with
> titebond 2.
>
> Yesterday the leg and post came back. It had come off again. The glue
> on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. Any ideas why yellow
> glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? Would residue of hide
> glue do this?
>
No telling, but you best answer will come from here.
http://www.titebond.com/contact_us.aspx
On 6/8/2013 1:10 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 6/8/2013 10:47 AM, G. Ross wrote:
>> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. The wood is dark
>> and fine-grained and looks like cherry. The leg is fastened to the
>> upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. I glued both dowels with
>> titebond 2.
>>
>> Yesterday the leg and post came back. It had come off again. The glue
>> on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. Any ideas why yellow
>> glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? Would residue of hide
>> glue do this?
>>
>
>
> No telling, but you best answer will come from here.
>
> http://www.titebond.com/contact_us.aspx
Just as a follow up, this type of repair can be problematic. I have
done similar. If you did not create totally new, clean, fresh wood
surfaces the glue often fails. Typically you have to drill the hole out
to the next larger size, flush cut the dowels, and drill the next size
up and put in larger dowels. There is just something about fresh glue
not adhering well to old dried glue. My finding is that sanding the old
hole and dowel is not enough.
On 6/8/2013 5:30 PM, Leon wrote:
> "G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> G. Ross wrote:
>>> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. The wood is
>>> dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. The leg is fastened to
>>> the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. I glued both dowels
>>> with titebond 2.
>>>
>>> Yesterday the leg and post came back. It had come off again. The
>>> glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. Any ideas why
>>> yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? Would residue
>>> of hide glue do this?
>>>
>> I posted a picture on abpw. This is from an old Duncan Pfyffe double
>> pedestal table. It belongs to a retired military family and has been
>> around the world with them. Apparently on the front lines. The legs
>> have been replaced using big screws, 10 penny nails, finish nails, etc.
>> I had to pull out a 10d common nail before I could get into the joint.
>
>
> That looks like a more modern preglued dowel. The type glue I am thinking
> about is activated by radio
> frequency.
>
> Back to your soft glue that did not set up and my previous comment about
> the old glue still being present. Typical wood glue has to soak into the
> wood to cure. If there was still a layer of the old glue sealing the hole
> the glue that you used was probably sealed in an air tight and sealed from
> bare wood situation. Basically no where for the moisture in the glue to
> go.
>
Sounds about right, and like you suspected I think the hide glue is
reacting with the titebond causing the blue hue...
--
Jeff
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> On Saturday, June 8, 2013 8:47:39 AM UTC-7, G. Ross wrote:
>> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. The wood is
>>
>> dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. The leg is fastened to
>>
>> the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. I glued both dowels
>>
>> with titebond 2.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yesterday the leg and post came back. It had come off again. The
>>
>> glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. Any ideas why
>>
>> yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? Would residue
>>
>> of hide glue do this?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> GW Ross
>>
>>
>>
>> Attention: Mu'ad Dib, your sandworm,
>>
>> 124C, is blocking the driveway.
>
>
> Kind of goolish. I always use epoxy for these types of fixes. I find System 3 T-88 as a great option.
That's what I used this time (after getting rid of the blue stuff.
--
GW Ross
A friend: someone who likes you even
after they know you.
On Saturday, June 8, 2013 8:47:39 AM UTC-7, G. Ross wrote:
> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. The wood is=20
>=20
> dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. The leg is fastened to=20
>=20
> the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. I glued both dowels=20
>=20
> with titebond 2.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Yesterday the leg and post came back. It had come off again. The=20
>=20
> glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. Any ideas why=20
>=20
> yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? Would residue=20
>=20
> of hide glue do this?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> =1D GW Ross =1D
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =1D Attention: Mu'ad Dib, your sandworm, =1D
>=20
> =1D 124C, is blocking the driveway. =1D
Kind of goolish. I always use epoxy for these types of fixes. I find System=
3 T-88 as a great option.
On Jun 8, 11:47=A0am, "G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote:
> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. =A0The wood is
> dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. =A0The leg is fastened to
> the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. =A0I glued both dowels
> with titebond 2.
>
> Yesterday the leg and post came back. =A0It had come off again. =A0The
> glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. =A0Any ideas why
> yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? =A0Would residue
> of hide glue do this?
Fresh hide glue wouldn't have given you problems. In fact,
it would have melted into the old and held like the joint was
welded. You wouldn't be able to break the dowels on that
old Duncan Pfyffe with a 10 lb maul. Assuming you didn't
scrape out the old hide glue, you still have a chance of
cleaning out the Titebond with the usual rag and hot water.
On Jun 8, 10:47=A0am, "G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote:
> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. =A0The wood is
> dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. =A0The leg is fastened to
> the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. =A0I glued both dowels
> with titebond 2.
>
> Yesterday the leg and post came back. =A0It had come off again. =A0The
> glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. =A0Any ideas why
> yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? =A0Would residue
> of hide glue do this?
>
> --
> =A0 GW Ross
>
> =A0 Attention: Mu'ad Dib, your sandworm,
> =A0 124C, is blocking the driveway.
Maybe the blue comes from a copper bearing wood preservative like
copper napthenate. CuNap has been in use since the late 1800s:
http://www.merichem.com/resources/technical_papers/copper_naphthenate_as_wo=
od_preservative/index.php
Maybe the wood preservative was also used as a stain.
On Jun 9, 8:23=A0pm, Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
> Good info. =A0However consider this wood might be a 'Rose Wood' and
> therefore absorbs a lot from the ground to color itself and at the
> same time become high in silica that eats up our saws and tools.
>
> Copper is common in volcanic areas and rivers are rich in it in the
> central Americas and South Americas.
>
> Either man made, or nature supplying the source.
>
> Martin
>
> On 6/9/2013 10:34 AM, Denis G. wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 8, 10:47 am, "G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. =A0The wood is
> >> dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. =A0The leg is fastened to
> >> the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. =A0I glued both dowe=
ls
> >> with titebond 2.
>
> >> Yesterday the leg and post came back. =A0It had come off again. =A0The
> >> glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. =A0Any ideas wh=
y
> >> yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? =A0Would residue
> >> of hide glue do this?
>
> >> --
> >> =A0 =A0GW Ross
>
> >> =A0 =A0Attention: Mu'ad Dib, your sandworm,
> >> =A0 =A0124C, is blocking the driveway.
>
> > Maybe the blue comes from a copper bearing wood preservative like
> > copper napthenate. =A0CuNap has been in use since the late 1800s:
> >http://www.merichem.com/resources/technical_papers/copper_naphthenate...
> > Maybe the wood preservative was also used as a stain.
Old copper pennies soaked in vinegar can turn the solution blue. I
wonder if a rag soaked in vinegar and wiped on the wood (maybe
underneath the table) might also leave a blue stain on the cloth.
On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 23:58:31 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>Umm glue does not cure in the air tight bottle after several tears. How
>else would you explain the glue not curing.
I never cry into my glue, but have forgoten to seal the bottle then
cried out an expletive.
I know I am being a smart ass.
Mark
Good info. However consider this wood might be a 'Rose Wood' and
therefore absorbs a lot from the ground to color itself and at the
same time become high in silica that eats up our saws and tools.
Copper is common in volcanic areas and rivers are rich in it in the
central Americas and South Americas.
Either man made, or nature supplying the source.
Martin
On 6/9/2013 10:34 AM, Denis G. wrote:
> On Jun 8, 10:47 am, "G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. The wood is
>> dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. The leg is fastened to
>> the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. I glued both dowels
>> with titebond 2.
>>
>> Yesterday the leg and post came back. It had come off again. The
>> glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. Any ideas why
>> yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? Would residue
>> of hide glue do this?
>>
>> --
>> GW Ross
>>
>> Attention: Mu'ad Dib, your sandworm,
>> 124C, is blocking the driveway.
>
> Maybe the blue comes from a copper bearing wood preservative like
> copper napthenate. CuNap has been in use since the late 1800s:
> http://www.merichem.com/resources/technical_papers/copper_naphthenate_as_wood_preservative/index.php
> Maybe the wood preservative was also used as a stain.
>
On 6/10/2013 1:46 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> On Saturday, June 8, 2013 8:47:39 AM UTC-7, G. Ross wrote:
>> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. The wood is
>>
>> dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. The leg is fastened to
>>
>> the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. I glued both dowels
>>
>> with titebond 2.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yesterday the leg and post came back. It had come off again. The
>>
>> glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. Any ideas why
>>
>> yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? Would residue
>>
>> of hide glue do this?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> GW Ross
>>
>>
>>
>> Attention: Mu'ad Dib, your sandworm,
>>
>> 124C, is blocking the driveway.
>
>
> Kind of goolish. I always use epoxy for these types of fixes. I find System 3 T-88 as a great option.
>
Probably the perfect and easiest solution.
Leon wrote:
> "G. Ross"<[email protected]> wrote:
>> G. Ross wrote:
>>> About 6 months ago I replaced a dowel in a table leg. The wood is
>>> dark and fine-grained and looks like cherry. The leg is fastened to
>>> the upright with two dowels about 5/8 " diameter. I glued both dowels
>>> with titebond 2.
>>>
>>> Yesterday the leg and post came back. It had come off again. The
>>> glue on the new dowel was still soft and colored blue. Any ideas why
>>> yellow glue would not set up, and why it turned blue? Would residue
>>> of hide glue do this?
>>>
>> I posted a picture on abpw. This is from an old Duncan Pfyffe double
>> pedestal table. It belongs to a retired military family and has been
>> around the world with them. Apparently on the front lines. The legs
>> have been replaced using big screws, 10 penny nails, finish nails, etc.
>> I had to pull out a 10d common nail before I could get into the joint.
>
>
> That looks like a more modern preglued dowel. The type glue I am thinking
> about is activated by radio
> frequency.
>
> Back to your soft glue that did not set up and my previous comment about
> the old glue still being present. Typical wood glue has to soak into the
> wood to cure. If there was still a layer of the old glue sealing the hole
> the glue that you used was probably sealed in an air tight and sealed from
> bare wood situation. Basically no where for the moisture in the glue to
> go.
Nope. That is just a dowel I cut and made a crude spiral on it with a
Dremel tool to give it more grip. The glue on the other end (inside
the table leg) has set and is firm and almost clear. Maybe they did
try to fix it with something else, but the son who brought it was
surprised and wondered if I used blue glue.
--
GW Ross
Do not call up that which you cannot
put on hold.