The new SawStop is performing well and is extremely smooth. No issues other
than I have not yet had a chance to get my stuff back under the right
extension table so nothing is where I expect it to be. As I suspected the
black color shows all the saw dust, quite a stark change from my old white
Jet. One thing that I could suggest as an improvement would to put a
switch on the internal dust cover door that has to be swung open to change
blades. It is hard for me to remember to close it and sawdust goes
everywhere inside when I forget. If the saw motor cover door or the belt
access door are left open the saw will not start. I think the same should
be true for that dust cover.
Anyway at least one of you thought that I may not be busy, eh Mike? I am on
my second paying job since getting the SawStop and have at least 4 projects
waiting in line. I am just finishing up on a unique sewing cabinet. The
customer wanted an elevated book case with doors and on top of that a short
platform to set a 50" tall sewing spool cabinet, which she supplied. I
designed and built the lower cabinet and the upper cabinet behind spool
cabinet. The unit is about 94" tall..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991167821/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992363858/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991171141/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992367050/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8993185484/
On 6/9/2013 4:12 PM, Leon wrote:
> Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 9, 2013 1:00:37 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> But how many do you produce?
>>
>> I've made 3 for myself, about 250 pegs total. One for my neighbor, with
>> at least 200 pegs. One for my sister, with about 150 pegs. One each for
>> 2 upholstery school classmates, with about 75 pegs each. All pegs angled.
>>
>> Sonny
>
> Now think of making hundreds as the company that builds this unit does,
> think gang boring might ease production effort?
>
Here is the maker of the thread cabinet
http://romwoodworking.com/enclosed-thread-cabinets.htm
One thing that I could suggest as an improvement would to put a
>
> switch on the internal dust cover door that has to be swung open to change
>
> blades. It is hard for me to remember to close it and sawdust goes
>
> everywhere inside when I forget. If the saw motor cover door or the belt
>
> access door are left open the saw will not start. I think the same should
>
> be true for that dust cover.
>
Hmm, I wonder is the pro model different. I change the blades form the top, no side door to open. Do you maybe mean the access door to set the clearance of the brake? I did that once and it works for every blade so far.
Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sunday, June 9, 2013 4:12:58 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> Now think of making hundreds as the company that builds this unit does,
>> think gang boring might ease production effort?
>
> Well, yes, when they're being mass produced.
>
> Sonny
I do agree that probably with less setup trouble and cost, drilling holes
for a hand full of cabinets would best be done with already available
tools. But I knew that these particular cabinets were being mass produced.
The cabinet appears to be pretty well constructed and the joints are very
good but the use of the piano hinges and lack of a decent finish is a
little hard on the eyes. The piano hinges used in this orientation is an
open invitation for sag, and the doors already have a bit of sag. In
anticipation of this I beveled the front and extended the front of the
"step up" to help realign the door fronts when returning them to the closed
position.
Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> Looks great. Good job.
Thank you
>
> What brand/kind of hinges did you use for the cabinet's bottom doors?
I used Blum compact 38N compact Euro style hinges, screw in, 1/2" overlay.
I buy these in lots of 50 and have literally used several hundreds of them.
Lifetime warranty and this batch cost me $1.28 per hinge. Smaller
quantities from my supplier are $1.82, IIRC
>
> Sonny
Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sunday, June 9, 2013 1:00:37 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>> But how many do you produce?
>
> I've made 3 for myself, about 250 pegs total. One for my neighbor, with
> at least 200 pegs. One for my sister, with about 150 pegs. One each for
> 2 upholstery school classmates, with about 75 pegs each. All pegs angled.
>
> Sonny
Now think of making hundreds as the company that builds this unit does,
think gang boring might ease production effort?
Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 9, 12:47 am, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
Snip
>
> That's a heckuva lot of pegs you've got there. It has a certain
> medieval quality to it when it's open. They never expect the Spanish
> Inquisition.
Remember, I did not build that portion, the customer supplied that.
But yes when I had it laying down on its back side you were instantly
reminded of one of those bed of nails when you opened the doors.
I have to think the maker probably used some style of gang boring accessory
on his DP. There are in excess of 400 dowels.
On 6/9/2013 10:25 AM, G. Ross wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> The new SawStop is performing well and is extremely smooth. No issues
>> other
>> than I have not yet had a chance to get my stuff back under the right
>> extension table so nothing is where I expect it to be. As I suspected the
>> black color shows all the saw dust, quite a stark change from my old
>> white
>> Jet. One thing that I could suggest as an improvement would to put a
>> switch on the internal dust cover door that has to be swung open to
>> change
>> blades. It is hard for me to remember to close it and sawdust goes
>> everywhere inside when I forget. If the saw motor cover door or the belt
>> access door are left open the saw will not start. I think the same should
>> be true for that dust cover.
>>
>> Anyway at least one of you thought that I may not be busy, eh Mike? I
>> am on
>> my second paying job since getting the SawStop and have at least 4
>> projects
>> waiting in line. I am just finishing up on a unique sewing cabinet. The
>> customer wanted an elevated book case with doors and on top of that a
>> short
>> platform to set a 50" tall sewing spool cabinet, which she supplied. I
>> designed and built the lower cabinet and the upper cabinet behind spool
>> cabinet. The unit is about 94" tall..
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991167821/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992363858/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991171141/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992367050/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8993185484/
>
> Gorgeous. As usual.
>
Thank you
On 6/9/2013 10:27 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:23:16 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> I have to think the maker probably used some style of gang boring accessory on his DP. There are in excess of 400 dowels.
>
> Actually, it doesn't take too long to drill the holes, using a simple jig. My thread racks have about 250 pegs, angled 15 degrees, so the spools don't easily slide off. My dowels aren't glued in, either, which makes for easy replacement if one breaks. They're 3/16" in diameter, small enough to hold bobbins, also, under the large (same color thread) spool. A neighbor does alterations, uses smaller spools, than I. I made her rack, also, a couple hundred pegs.... however many fit onto the allotted space. Open front (no doors), wall mounted framed rack, not cabinet type racks.
>
> Sonny
>
But how many do you produce?
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> Now think of making hundreds as the company that builds this unit
>> does,
>> think gang boring might ease production effort?
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Which reminds me, what ever happened to the guy from Jersey
> who was in the specialty drilling machine business?
>
> Name was Joe Argo maybe?
>
> Lew
He still posts here on occasion.
On Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:31:29 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> I do agree that probably with less setup trouble and cost, drilling holes=
for a hand full of cabinets would best be done with already available tool=
s. But I knew that these particular cabinets were being mass produced. The =
cabinet appears to be pretty well constructed and the joints are very good =
but the use of the piano hinges and lack of a decent finish is a little har=
d on the eyes. The piano hinges used in this orientation is an open invitat=
ion for sag, and the doors already have a bit of sag. In anticipation of th=
is I beveled the front and extended the front of the "step up" to help real=
ign the door fronts when returning them to the closed position.
I did initially noticed that bevel on the lower edges (close-up pic of the =
bottom), but didn't give it a second thought as to why.
Sometimes, the idea of "bigger is better" is not better. For someone's pe=
rsonal thread rack, as that, an enclosed cabinet is a piece of furniture, s=
o I can understand having doors, for looks. For the doors to store spools =
of thread, also, may be weight-loading the units too much, IMO. When opene=
d, it becomes a display cabinet, with showy (numerous) spools, and contribu=
tes very little, if anything, when in actual use for sewing or quilting. =
=20
If the doors/hinges are a little weak, the builder sacrificed sturdiness fo=
r asthetics (for show?). Might be best to eliminate the doors' rack aspect=
and just have doors with no pegs. That's a heck of a lot of spool storage=
on the doors. Not even all my pegs have spools on them and quite a few pa=
irs of pegs have same color spools. Even for hanging on the wall, I made s=
ure the hanger aspect, of my racks, were strong/secure enough not to pull o=
ut from the wall.
Another aspect of my rack use: It's not so neat and clean looking. I grab=
a spool, use it, put it back with end-thread hanging down, so there are en=
ds of threads hanging from almost every used spool... some end threads hang=
from the bobbins, also. No doubt those quilters and other like-sewers are=
more neat, than I am, that way.
As per your observations, I think you're suggesting the cabinets could be d=
esigned a little better (for sturdiness, at least), a few tweaks here and t=
here, and still be asthetically nice and presentable. Yep, I'd likely agre=
e.
Sonny
"Leon" wrote:
> Now think of making hundreds as the company that builds this unit
> does,
> think gang boring might ease production effort?
----------------------------------------------------
Which reminds me, what ever happened to the guy from Jersey
who was in the specialty drilling machine business?
Name was Joe Argo maybe?
Lew
On Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:23:16 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> I have to think the maker probably used some style of gang boring access=
ory on his DP. There are in excess of 400 dowels.
Actually, it doesn't take too long to drill the holes, using a simple jig. =
My thread racks have about 250 pegs, angled 15 degrees, so the spools don'=
t easily slide off. My dowels aren't glued in, either, which makes for ea=
sy replacement if one breaks. They're 3/16" in diameter, small enough to h=
old bobbins, also, under the large (same color thread) spool. A neighbor d=
oes alterations, uses smaller spools, than I. I made her rack, also, a cou=
ple hundred pegs.... however many fit onto the allotted space. Open front =
(no doors), wall mounted framed rack, not cabinet type racks.
Sonny
Leon wrote:
> The new SawStop is performing well and is extremely smooth. No issues other
> than I have not yet had a chance to get my stuff back under the right
> extension table so nothing is where I expect it to be. As I suspected the
> black color shows all the saw dust, quite a stark change from my old white
> Jet. One thing that I could suggest as an improvement would to put a
> switch on the internal dust cover door that has to be swung open to change
> blades. It is hard for me to remember to close it and sawdust goes
> everywhere inside when I forget. If the saw motor cover door or the belt
> access door are left open the saw will not start. I think the same should
> be true for that dust cover.
>
> Anyway at least one of you thought that I may not be busy, eh Mike? I am on
> my second paying job since getting the SawStop and have at least 4 projects
> waiting in line. I am just finishing up on a unique sewing cabinet. The
> customer wanted an elevated book case with doors and on top of that a short
> platform to set a 50" tall sewing spool cabinet, which she supplied. I
> designed and built the lower cabinet and the upper cabinet behind spool
> cabinet. The unit is about 94" tall..
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991167821/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992363858/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991171141/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992367050/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8993185484/
Gorgeous. As usual.
--
GW Ross
Do not call up that which you cannot
put on hold.
Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 6/9/2013 11:54 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> The new SawStop is performing well and is extremely smooth. No issues
>>>> other
>>>> than I have not yet had a chance to get my stuff back under the right
>>>> extension table so nothing is where I expect it to be. As I >>> suspected the
>>>> black color shows all the saw dust, quite a stark change from my old
>>>> white
>>>> Jet. One thing that I could suggest as an improvement would to put a
>>>> switch on the internal dust cover door that has to be swung open to
>>>> change
>>>> blades. It is hard for me to remember to close it and sawdust goes
>>>> everywhere inside when I forget. If the saw motor cover door or the >>> belt
>>>> access door are left open the saw will not start. I think the same >>> should
>>>> be true for that dust cover.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway at least one of you thought that I may not be busy, eh Mike? I
>>>> am on
>>>> my second paying job since getting the SawStop and have at least 4
>>>> projects
>>>> waiting in line. I am just finishing up on a unique sewing cabinet. >>> The
>>>> customer wanted an elevated book case with doors and on top of that a
>>>> short
>>>> platform to set a 50" tall sewing spool cabinet, which she supplied. I
>>>> designed and built the lower cabinet and the upper cabinet behind spool
>>>> cabinet. The unit is about 94" tall..
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991167821/
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992363858/
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991171141/
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992367050/
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8993185484/
>>> Great workmanship! I don't see why the spool cabinet and the bookcase
>>> needed to be physically attached, but I suppose one shouldn't argue
>>> with the customer bout what they want!
>>
>> Not sure why you would not see why they would be attached, the spool >
>> cabinet would easily topple over when you open the doors.
>
> No, I thought the spool cabinet should basically be anchored to a wall.
It is designed to be hung from the wall but the husband thought it would
pull the wall down. LOL
It basically sets on top of the front step and both the spool cabinet and
step up are attached to the upper back cabinet, back cab attached to lower
cab. The upper back cab will be anchored to the wall
Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
> Looks nice.
Thank you
I think I would have put on 4 legs on the bottom -
> maybe half circles cut out of he side feet.
That suggestion was offered but declined by the customer. The wide side
legs have another function of hiding from side view the stuff that will be
stored on the floor.
Likely it will have
> feet to keep it from rocking or s
Screw adjustable felt pad feet.
>
> Martin
>
> On 6/9/2013 6:50 PM, Leon wrote:
>> I have now finished adding the backs and door pulls and the unit is
>> ready for delivery.
>>
>> I added a couple of pictures showing what most hide, the back side. I
>> started using back face frames on all of my cabinets about 18 months ago
>> and while similar to the front face frames the back face frame joints
>> are rabbet on rabbet reinforced with floating tenon's/Domino's.
>> This rabbet on rabbet joint naturally forms a rebate/recess all the way
>> around the in side back of the face frame that accepts the 1/4" back
>> panels. It makes for a very clean looking back and probably doubles the
>> cabinet's resistance to rack. So far I have built 34 front and back
>> face frames for 17 cabinets in the last 18 months.
>>
>> The back view
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/9000688447/
>>
>> And the inside view of the upper back cabinet.
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/9001873934/
On Sunday, June 9, 2013 1:00:37 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> But how many do you produce?
I've made 3 for myself, about 250 pegs total. One for my neighbor, with at least 200 pegs. One for my sister, with about 150 pegs. One each for 2 upholstery school classmates, with about 75 pegs each. All pegs angled.
Sonny
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 14:54:50 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 6/16/2013 1:09 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
>>>
>> Not sure I understand that. Piano hinges have been used to hold heavy
>> tool doors on work cabinets for a long time. I would think they actually
>> reduce sag since there are more points of contact. While not as robust
>> as a regular door hinge you would not be able to fit a door hin in this
>> instance. So I'm not so sure I think they lead to sag..
>> I think it depends on what the load is, and how it's used. I think
>> having a slight rebate for the hinge helps avoid issues.
>>
>
>
>OK, a picture is worth a thousand words.
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/9061338634/
>
>If you will notice, the brand new piano hinge pictured, has gaps between
>the "ears" on each side of the hinge. Because of this gap the "ears"
>that are actually supporting all of the weight are going to wear more
>quickly and or the ones carrying the weight will distort until some of
>the other ears begin to engage and help carry the load. The the gap
>closes, the door settles/sags.
>
>When used in a horizontal position the ill fitting halves do not matter
>because most of the load is then placed on the hinge pin vs. the ear
>tops and bottoms when used vertically.
Thanks Leon. Perfectly clear from the photo. I bought some solid brass
continuous for some window seats a few years back that were very high quality,
and the price reflected it. I imagine they would also wear quickly (brass) in
the vertical position.
Thanks to all the folks who commented.
I have now finished adding the backs and door pulls and the unit is
ready for delivery.
I added a couple of pictures showing what most hide, the back side. I
started using back face frames on all of my cabinets about 18 months ago
and while similar to the front face frames the back face frame joints
are rabbet on rabbet reinforced with floating tenon's/Domino's.
This rabbet on rabbet joint naturally forms a rebate/recess all the way
around the in side back of the face frame that accepts the 1/4" back
panels. It makes for a very clean looking back and probably doubles the
cabinet's resistance to rack. So far I have built 34 front and back
face frames for 17 cabinets in the last 18 months.
The back view
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/9000688447/
And the inside view of the upper back cabinet.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/9001873934/
On 6/9/2013 11:54 AM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> The new SawStop is performing well and is extremely smooth. No issues
>> other
>> than I have not yet had a chance to get my stuff back under the right
>> extension table so nothing is where I expect it to be. As I suspected the
>> black color shows all the saw dust, quite a stark change from my old
>> white
>> Jet. One thing that I could suggest as an improvement would to put a
>> switch on the internal dust cover door that has to be swung open to
>> change
>> blades. It is hard for me to remember to close it and sawdust goes
>> everywhere inside when I forget. If the saw motor cover door or the belt
>> access door are left open the saw will not start. I think the same should
>> be true for that dust cover.
>>
>> Anyway at least one of you thought that I may not be busy, eh Mike? I
>> am on
>> my second paying job since getting the SawStop and have at least 4
>> projects
>> waiting in line. I am just finishing up on a unique sewing cabinet. The
>> customer wanted an elevated book case with doors and on top of that a
>> short
>> platform to set a 50" tall sewing spool cabinet, which she supplied. I
>> designed and built the lower cabinet and the upper cabinet behind spool
>> cabinet. The unit is about 94" tall..
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991167821/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992363858/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991171141/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992367050/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8993185484/
> Great workmanship! I don't see why the spool cabinet and the bookcase
> needed to be physically attached, but I suppose one shouldn't argue
> with the customer bout what they want!
Not sure why you would not see why they would be attached, the spool
cabinet would easily topple over when you open the doors.
>
> I won't go into detail about what I learned from your photos--but I did.
>
> Thanks for sharing!
> Bill
>
Thank yoou
On 6/9/2013 12:03 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 6/8/2013 11:47 PM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> waiting in line. I am just finishing up on a unique sewing cabinet. The
>> customer wanted an elevated book case with doors and on top of that a
>> short
>> platform to set a 50" tall sewing spool cabinet, which she supplied. I
>> designed and built the lower cabinet and the upper cabinet behind spool
>> cabinet. The unit is about 94" tall..
> ...
>
> What's the point of the doors on the sides of the upper? Can't figure
> out what the client is planning for those tall/skinny spaces???
>
> --
This is a lady is a quilter, the top back cabinet will house a portable
ironing board, cutting mats and cutting rules.
FWIW the upper cabinet has 4 doors, 2 on the ends and 2 around the
corners from the ends, on the front, just beside the spool cabinet. The
unit will set in the corner against a wall just inches wider than the
cabinet. Therefore I added the front door on the left front as the left
side door will probably not ever be used because of the side wall
restriction. If the cabinet is ever moved to another location the left
side door might possibly be used. And it looks better being symetrical.
;~)
Oh and FWIW, the back upper cabinet is open all the way through, from
side to side.
On Jun 9, 12:47=A0am, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
> The new SawStop is performing well and is extremely smooth. No issues oth=
er
> than I have not yet had a chance to get my stuff back under the right
> extension table so nothing is where I expect it to be. As I suspected the
> black color shows all the saw dust, =A0quite a stark change from my old w=
hite
> Jet. =A0One thing that I could suggest as an improvement would to put a
> switch on the internal dust cover door that has to be swung open to chang=
e
> blades. It is hard for me to remember to close it and sawdust goes
> everywhere inside when I forget. =A0If the saw motor cover door or the be=
lt
> access door are left open the saw will not start. I think the same should
> be true for that dust cover.
>
> Anyway at least one of you thought that I may not be busy, eh Mike? I am =
on
> my second paying job since getting the SawStop and have at least 4 projec=
ts
> waiting in line. I am just finishing up on a unique sewing cabinet. =A0Th=
e
> customer wanted an elevated book case with doors and on top of that a sho=
rt
> platform to set a 50" tall sewing spool cabinet, which she supplied. =A0I
> designed and built the lower cabinet and the upper cabinet behind spool
> cabinet. =A0The unit is about 94" tall..
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991167821/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992363858/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991171141/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992367050/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8993185484/
That's a heckuva lot of pegs you've got there. It has a certain
medieval quality to it when it's open. They never expect the Spanish
Inquisition.
Roy <[email protected]> wrote:
> OK, I need some help understanding why piano hinges could be a problem due to
> sag. I'm a hobbyist and have used piano hinges a few times, but never with the
> hinge in the vertical position.
>
> I recall a couple magazine articles about building your own big roll around
> storage cabinet that used full length (6-7 feet) piano hinges to open up
> multiple sets of shelves depicted as having heavy jars of screws, etc. And as I
> think of it, each of these sets of shelves had a caster supporting the
> non-hinged side. So I guess I just answered my own question about this piece of
> shop furniture. But I'd still like to understand how a piano hinge would sag
> when used for a thread cabinet.
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> Roy
>
>> "
Piano hinges are designed to be used in a horizontal orientation where the
load is placed mostly evenly in the same direction on the hinge pin and
along its entire length to maintain alignment. Used vertically that load is
transferred unevenly along its length. Add to that most piano hinges are
relatively inexpensive for their size and are not typically of a high
quality, they are easily bent out of shape.
On 6/16/2013 1:09 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>
> Not sure I understand that. Piano hinges have been used to hold heavy
> tool doors on work cabinets for a long time. I would think they actually
> reduce sag since there are more points of contact. While not as robust
> as a regular door hinge you would not be able to fit a door hin in this
> instance. So I'm not so sure I think they lead to sag..
> I think it depends on what the load is, and how it's used. I think
> having a slight rebate for the hinge helps avoid issues.
>
OK, a picture is worth a thousand words.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/9061338634/
If you will notice, the brand new piano hinge pictured, has gaps between
the "ears" on each side of the hinge. Because of this gap the "ears"
that are actually supporting all of the weight are going to wear more
quickly and or the ones carrying the weight will distort until some of
the other ears begin to engage and help carry the load. The the gap
closes, the door settles/sags.
When used in a horizontal position the ill fitting halves do not matter
because most of the load is then placed on the hinge pin vs. the ear
tops and bottoms when used vertically.
On 6/16/2013 3:54 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 6/16/2013 1:09 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
>>>
>> Not sure I understand that. Piano hinges have been used to hold heavy
>> tool doors on work cabinets for a long time. I would think they actually
>> reduce sag since there are more points of contact. While not as robust
>> as a regular door hinge you would not be able to fit a door hin in this
>> instance. So I'm not so sure I think they lead to sag..
>> I think it depends on what the load is, and how it's used. I think
>> having a slight rebate for the hinge helps avoid issues.
>>
>
>
> OK, a picture is worth a thousand words.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/9061338634/
>
> If you will notice, the brand new piano hinge pictured, has gaps between
> the "ears" on each side of the hinge. Because of this gap the "ears"
> that are actually supporting all of the weight are going to wear more
> quickly and or the ones carrying the weight will distort until some of
> the other ears begin to engage and help carry the load. The the gap
> closes, the door settles/sags.
>
> When used in a horizontal position the ill fitting halves do not matter
> because most of the load is then placed on the hinge pin vs. the ear
> tops and bottoms when used vertically.
I see your point, but not all piano hinges are made equally.
These are very high in quality by comparision to what you would get in HD.
http://imgur.com/frcIm3K
I got them from a cabinet shop going out of business.
I like the undrilled ones, as I can do anything I want with them.
The down side to your euro hinge is that you are always in 3/4 or
thicker stock, whereas with the piano hinge it's possible to use 1/2 or
thicker. But I understand.
--
Jeff
On 6/16/2013 1:09 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 6/16/2013 3:34 AM, Leon wrote:
>> Roy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> OK, I need some help understanding why piano hinges could be a
>>> problem due to
>>> sag. I'm a hobbyist and have used piano hinges a few times, but
>>> never with the
>>> hinge in the vertical position.
>>>
>>> I recall a couple magazine articles about building your own big roll
>>> around
>>> storage cabinet that used full length (6-7 feet) piano hinges to open up
>>> multiple sets of shelves depicted as having heavy jars of screws,
>>> etc. And as I
>>> think of it, each of these sets of shelves had a caster supporting the
>>> non-hinged side. So I guess I just answered my own question about
>>> this piece of
>>> shop furniture. But I'd still like to understand how a piano hinge
>>> would sag
>>> when used for a thread cabinet.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the info.
>>>
>>> Roy
>>>
>>
>>>> "
>>
>> Piano hinges are designed to be used in a horizontal orientation where
>> the
>> load is placed mostly evenly in the same direction on the hinge pin and
>> along its entire length to maintain alignment. Used vertically that
>> load is
>> transferred unevenly along its length. Add to that most piano hinges are
>> relatively inexpensive for their size and are not typically of a high
>> quality, they are easily bent out of shape.
>>
> Not sure I understand that. Piano hinges have been used to hold heavy
> tool doors on work cabinets for a long time. I would think they actually
> reduce sag since there are more points of contact. While not as robust
> as a regular door hinge you would not be able to fit a door hin in this
> instance. So I'm not so sure I think they lead to sag..
> I think it depends on what the load is, and how it's used. I think
> having a slight rebate for the hinge helps avoid issues.
>
Reread all of what I said, typically the ones you buy are not of high
quality and easily bend. The ones you refer to on steel cabinet doors
are normally welded in place so that there is no give where attached and
are a better quality hinge that you normally find at a ww store or the
big box. FWIW the piano hinges used on both of the 45" doors on the
spool cabinet that the builder used are still firmly fixed with all 44
screws on each side but there is wiggle on both sides. As a result one
side sags more than the other. Had the builder used 3 pair of Euro
style hinges for about the "same price" there would have been no
play/wiggle and any sag that may develop over the years, for what ever
reason, could be easily adjusted out. I am paying $1.28 for each Euro
style hinge and they come with a life time warranty.
On 6/16/2013 3:34 AM, Leon wrote:
> Roy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> OK, I need some help understanding why piano hinges could be a problem due to
>> sag. I'm a hobbyist and have used piano hinges a few times, but never with the
>> hinge in the vertical position.
>>
>> I recall a couple magazine articles about building your own big roll around
>> storage cabinet that used full length (6-7 feet) piano hinges to open up
>> multiple sets of shelves depicted as having heavy jars of screws, etc. And as I
>> think of it, each of these sets of shelves had a caster supporting the
>> non-hinged side. So I guess I just answered my own question about this piece of
>> shop furniture. But I'd still like to understand how a piano hinge would sag
>> when used for a thread cabinet.
>>
>> Thanks for the info.
>>
>> Roy
>>
>
>>> "
>
> Piano hinges are designed to be used in a horizontal orientation where the
> load is placed mostly evenly in the same direction on the hinge pin and
> along its entire length to maintain alignment. Used vertically that load is
> transferred unevenly along its length. Add to that most piano hinges are
> relatively inexpensive for their size and are not typically of a high
> quality, they are easily bent out of shape.
>
Not sure I understand that. Piano hinges have been used to hold heavy
tool doors on work cabinets for a long time. I would think they actually
reduce sag since there are more points of contact. While not as robust
as a regular door hinge you would not be able to fit a door hin in this
instance. So I'm not so sure I think they lead to sag..
I think it depends on what the load is, and how it's used. I think
having a slight rebate for the hinge helps avoid issues.
--
Jeff who has to work today. No time to play in the shop.
"Roy" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
OK, I need some help understanding why piano hinges could be a problem due
to
sag. I'm a hobbyist and have used piano hinges a few times, but never with
the
hinge in the vertical position.
I recall a couple magazine articles about building your own big roll around
storage cabinet that used full length (6-7 feet) piano hinges to open up
multiple sets of shelves depicted as having heavy jars of screws, etc. And
as I
think of it, each of these sets of shelves had a caster supporting the
non-hinged side. So I guess I just answered my own question about this
piece of
shop furniture. But I'd still like to understand how a piano hinge would
sag
when used for a thread cabinet.
=====================================================================================
The difference between a regular hinge and a piano hinge is length. That is
it.
On 6/16/2013 3:54 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 6/16/2013 1:09 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
>>>
>> Not sure I understand that. Piano hinges have been used to hold heavy
>> tool doors on work cabinets for a long time. I would think they actually
>> reduce sag since there are more points of contact. While not as robust
>> as a regular door hinge you would not be able to fit a door hin in this
>> instance. So I'm not so sure I think they lead to sag..
>> I think it depends on what the load is, and how it's used. I think
>> having a slight rebate for the hinge helps avoid issues.
>>
>
>
> OK, a picture is worth a thousand words.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/9061338634/
>
> If you will notice, the brand new piano hinge pictured, has gaps between
> the "ears" on each side of the hinge. Because of this gap the "ears"
> that are actually supporting all of the weight are going to wear more
> quickly and or the ones carrying the weight will distort until some of
> the other ears begin to engage and help carry the load. The the gap
> closes, the door settles/sags.
>
> When used in a horizontal position the ill fitting halves do not matter
> because most of the load is then placed on the hinge pin vs. the ear
> tops and bottoms when used vertically.
I see your point, but not all piano hinges are made equally.
These are very high in quality by comparision to what you would get in HD.
http://imgur.com/frcIm3K
I got them from a cabinet shop going out of business.
I like the undrilled ones, as I can do anything I want with them.
The down side to your euro hinge is that you are always in 3/4 or
thicker stock, whereas with the piano hinge it's possible to use 1/2 or
thicker. But I understand.
--
Jeff
Roy wrote:
> OK, I need some help understanding why piano hinges could be a problem due to
> sag. I'm a hobbyist and have used piano hinges a few times, but never with the
> hinge in the vertical position.
I don't have the experience to say whether it would sag or not. But I
can see that the forces exerted on the hinges, by the open doors
of the cabinet, stress it in the worst possible way--particularly the
little "feet" that wrap around the rod (please excuse my terminology).
Bill
>
> I recall a couple magazine articles about building your own big roll around
> storage cabinet that used full length (6-7 feet) piano hinges to open up
> multiple sets of shelves depicted as having heavy jars of screws, etc. And as I
> think of it, each of these sets of shelves had a caster supporting the
> non-hinged side. So I guess I just answered my own question about this piece of
> shop furniture. But I'd still like to understand how a piano hinge would sag
> when used for a thread cabinet.
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> Roy
>
> On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 21:31:29 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, June 9, 2013 4:12:58 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> Now think of making hundreds as the company that builds this unit does,
>>>> think gang boring might ease production effort?
>>> Well, yes, when they're being mass produced.
>>>
>>> Sonny
>> I do agree that probably with less setup trouble and cost, drilling holes
>> for a hand full of cabinets would best be done with already available
>> tools. But I knew that these particular cabinets were being mass produced.
>> The cabinet appears to be pretty well constructed and the joints are very
>> good but the use of the piano hinges and lack of a decent finish is a
>> little hard on the eyes. The piano hinges used in this orientation is an
>> open invitation for sag, and the doors already have a bit of sag. In
>> anticipation of this I beveled the front and extended the front of the
>> "step up" to help realign the door fronts when returning them to the closed
>> position.
OK, I need some help understanding why piano hinges could be a problem due to
sag. I'm a hobbyist and have used piano hinges a few times, but never with the
hinge in the vertical position.
I recall a couple magazine articles about building your own big roll around
storage cabinet that used full length (6-7 feet) piano hinges to open up
multiple sets of shelves depicted as having heavy jars of screws, etc. And as I
think of it, each of these sets of shelves had a caster supporting the
non-hinged side. So I guess I just answered my own question about this piece of
shop furniture. But I'd still like to understand how a piano hinge would sag
when used for a thread cabinet.
Thanks for the info.
Roy
On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 21:31:29 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 9, 2013 4:12:58 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>> Now think of making hundreds as the company that builds this unit does,
>>> think gang boring might ease production effort?
>>
>> Well, yes, when they're being mass produced.
>>
>> Sonny
>
>I do agree that probably with less setup trouble and cost, drilling holes
>for a hand full of cabinets would best be done with already available
>tools. But I knew that these particular cabinets were being mass produced.
> The cabinet appears to be pretty well constructed and the joints are very
>good but the use of the piano hinges and lack of a decent finish is a
>little hard on the eyes. The piano hinges used in this orientation is an
>open invitation for sag, and the doors already have a bit of sag. In
>anticipation of this I beveled the front and extended the front of the
>"step up" to help realign the door fronts when returning them to the closed
>position.
Leon wrote:
> The new SawStop is performing well and is extremely smooth. No issues other
> than I have not yet had a chance to get my stuff back under the right
> extension table so nothing is where I expect it to be. As I suspected the
> black color shows all the saw dust, quite a stark change from my old white
> Jet. One thing that I could suggest as an improvement would to put a
> switch on the internal dust cover door that has to be swung open to change
> blades. It is hard for me to remember to close it and sawdust goes
> everywhere inside when I forget. If the saw motor cover door or the belt
> access door are left open the saw will not start. I think the same should
> be true for that dust cover.
>
> Anyway at least one of you thought that I may not be busy, eh Mike? I am on
> my second paying job since getting the SawStop and have at least 4 projects
> waiting in line. I am just finishing up on a unique sewing cabinet. The
> customer wanted an elevated book case with doors and on top of that a short
> platform to set a 50" tall sewing spool cabinet, which she supplied. I
> designed and built the lower cabinet and the upper cabinet behind spool
> cabinet. The unit is about 94" tall..
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991167821/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992363858/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991171141/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992367050/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8993185484/
Great workmanship! I don't see why the spool cabinet and the bookcase
needed to be physically attached, but I suppose one shouldn't argue
with the customer bout what they want!
I won't go into detail about what I learned from your photos--but I did.
Thanks for sharing!
Bill
On 6/8/2013 11:47 PM, Leon wrote:
...
> waiting in line. I am just finishing up on a unique sewing cabinet. The
> customer wanted an elevated book case with doors and on top of that a short
> platform to set a 50" tall sewing spool cabinet, which she supplied. I
> designed and built the lower cabinet and the upper cabinet behind spool
> cabinet. The unit is about 94" tall..
...
What's the point of the doors on the sides of the upper? Can't figure
out what the client is planning for those tall/skinny spaces???
--
Leon wrote:
> On 6/9/2013 11:54 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> The new SawStop is performing well and is extremely smooth. No issues
>>> other
>>> than I have not yet had a chance to get my stuff back under the right
>>> extension table so nothing is where I expect it to be. As I
>>> suspected the
>>> black color shows all the saw dust, quite a stark change from my old
>>> white
>>> Jet. One thing that I could suggest as an improvement would to put a
>>> switch on the internal dust cover door that has to be swung open to
>>> change
>>> blades. It is hard for me to remember to close it and sawdust goes
>>> everywhere inside when I forget. If the saw motor cover door or the
>>> belt
>>> access door are left open the saw will not start. I think the same
>>> should
>>> be true for that dust cover.
>>>
>>> Anyway at least one of you thought that I may not be busy, eh Mike? I
>>> am on
>>> my second paying job since getting the SawStop and have at least 4
>>> projects
>>> waiting in line. I am just finishing up on a unique sewing cabinet.
>>> The
>>> customer wanted an elevated book case with doors and on top of that a
>>> short
>>> platform to set a 50" tall sewing spool cabinet, which she supplied. I
>>> designed and built the lower cabinet and the upper cabinet behind spool
>>> cabinet. The unit is about 94" tall..
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991167821/
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992363858/
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991171141/
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992367050/
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8993185484/
>> Great workmanship! I don't see why the spool cabinet and the bookcase
>> needed to be physically attached, but I suppose one shouldn't argue
>> with the customer bout what they want!
>
> Not sure why you would not see why they would be attached, the spool
> cabinet would easily topple over when you open the doors.
No, I thought the spool cabinet should basically be anchored to a wall.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I won't go into detail about what I learned from your photos--but I did.
>>
>> Thanks for sharing!
>> Bill
>>
> Thank yoou
Leon wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 6/9/2013 11:54 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>> The new SawStop is performing well and is extremely smooth. No issues
>>>>> other
>>>>> than I have not yet had a chance to get my stuff back under the right
>>>>> extension table so nothing is where I expect it to be. As I >>> suspected the
>>>>> black color shows all the saw dust, quite a stark change from my old
>>>>> white
>>>>> Jet. One thing that I could suggest as an improvement would to put a
>>>>> switch on the internal dust cover door that has to be swung open to
>>>>> change
>>>>> blades. It is hard for me to remember to close it and sawdust goes
>>>>> everywhere inside when I forget. If the saw motor cover door or the >>> belt
>>>>> access door are left open the saw will not start. I think the same >>> should
>>>>> be true for that dust cover.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway at least one of you thought that I may not be busy, eh Mike? I
>>>>> am on
>>>>> my second paying job since getting the SawStop and have at least 4
>>>>> projects
>>>>> waiting in line. I am just finishing up on a unique sewing cabinet. >>> The
>>>>> customer wanted an elevated book case with doors and on top of that a
>>>>> short
>>>>> platform to set a 50" tall sewing spool cabinet, which she supplied. I
>>>>> designed and built the lower cabinet and the upper cabinet behind spool
>>>>> cabinet. The unit is about 94" tall..
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991167821/
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992363858/
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8991171141/
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8992367050/
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8993185484/
>>>> Great workmanship! I don't see why the spool cabinet and the bookcase
>>>> needed to be physically attached, but I suppose one shouldn't argue
>>>> with the customer bout what they want!
>>> Not sure why you would not see why they would be attached, the spool >
>>> cabinet would easily topple over when you open the doors.
>> No, I thought the spool cabinet should basically be anchored to a wall.
> It is designed to be hung from the wall but the husband thought it would
> pull the wall down. LOL
>
> It basically sets on top of the front step and both the spool cabinet and
> step up are attached to the upper back cabinet, back cab attached to lower
> cab. The upper back cab will be anchored to the wall
Just don't pull the wall down (LOL)!!! : )
On 6/10/2013 1:40 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>
> One thing that I could suggest as an improvement would to put a
>>
>> switch on the internal dust cover door that has to be swung open to change
>>
>> blades. It is hard for me to remember to close it and sawdust goes
>>
>> everywhere inside when I forget. If the saw motor cover door or the belt
>>
>> access door are left open the saw will not start. I think the same should
>>
>> be true for that dust cover.
>>
>
> Hmm, I wonder is the pro model different. I change the blades form the top, no side door to open. Do you maybe mean the access door to set the clearance of the brake? I did that once and it works for every blade so far.
>
I change the blade from the top too but between the end of the arbor,
the end that receives the blade and nut, to the plastic swing door that
helps contain the dust there is about 1" clearance. I can't put my hand
down there to remove or replace the arbor nut without opening that cover
door. Not talking external doors.
If yu look at this first picture you will see the cover door in the
close position, it is directly above the dust hose. It has a single
hinge bolt on the front just to the left, in the picture, of the top of
the dust hose.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8635558766/in/photostream/
In this second picture you see the cover door opened at about a 30
degree angle. This is the door that I often forget to close after
changing blades. BTW the yellow bolt just behind the arbor is the one I
adjust the brake clearance with.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8635558850/in/photostream/
I have resorted to immediately opening the outer motor cover door when
I open the dust cover door to remove the blade. This prevents the saw
from starting until I close it. When I close it I remember to check the
cover door.
On the industrial you have access to the brake adjustment hex bolt by
simply removing the throat plate.
Looks nice. I think I would have put on 4 legs on the bottom -
maybe half circles cut out of he side feet. Likely it will have
feet to keep it from rocking or such.
Martin
On 6/9/2013 6:50 PM, Leon wrote:
> I have now finished adding the backs and door pulls and the unit is
> ready for delivery.
>
> I added a couple of pictures showing what most hide, the back side. I
> started using back face frames on all of my cabinets about 18 months ago
> and while similar to the front face frames the back face frame joints
> are rabbet on rabbet reinforced with floating tenon's/Domino's.
> This rabbet on rabbet joint naturally forms a rebate/recess all the way
> around the in side back of the face frame that accepts the 1/4" back
> panels. It makes for a very clean looking back and probably doubles the
> cabinet's resistance to rack. So far I have built 34 front and back
> face frames for 17 cabinets in the last 18 months.
>
> The back view
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/9000688447/
>
> And the inside view of the upper back cabinet.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/9001873934/