Looking for advice on sliding compound miter saws

On 19 Nov 2003 13:05:59 -0800, [email protected] (Joshua) wrote:

>Thanks for the advice on the blade. Why are so many manufacturers
>pushing their thin-kerf blades? What is their advantage? Do they cut
>quicker?
>
>As for the saws, the Makita, Ridgid, and Dewalt (yeah, big yellow is
>now in the running again) all have really nice angle scales. The
>Ridgid's is probably the easiest to set (nice big easily reachable
>levers) followed by Makita and then Dewalt.
>
>I like the idea of a sacrifical fence and plan on doing that. I
>believe all of the above saws provide holes in their fences for
>mounting a wood or poly fence.
>
>Another question: does anyone have any comments about table flatness
>and/or fence trueness? I've heard lots of good things about the
>Makita, some great and some really poor things about the Dewalt, and I
>only have 2 data points about the Ridgid (both good). It seems to me
>that the Ridgid may have an easier time keeping their table flat
>because it is one piece (vs. a turntable inside of a table design).
>
>- Josh

Just to confuse you up some more, I have always heard good things
about the Hitachi sliders. Seems their 8 1/2"er was one of the first,
and is widely considered to be a good example. Their newer C10FSB
looks to be a very nice saw, and seems very reasonably priced at $399.
If you like lasers, you can buy the same saw with one for a extra
C-note (Model C10FSH). I'm looking to replace my crappy Craftsman with
broken fence, which was a gift from my father-in-law.

Note: I am in no way connected with Hitachi. However, I have often
found their tools to be right up there with the best, but priced more
like the Ryobi line. Maybe its advertising and overhead. Haven't seen
to many Hitachi advertisements or promos. I did buy one of the 14.4V
cordless drill kits ($79 @ Lowes with 2 batteries, a kick ass
flashlight, and charger) to replace an ailing, older Porter Cable, and
have been amazed.

DLGlos

Thanks for your insight, everyone. I have actually had occassion to
use the Dewalt 708 a few times for some rough framing. It worked
really well for that, but I had some reservations about its ability
for precision cuts. The saw seemed to have a bit of lateral play in
the head such that the blade could wiggle a bit. Indeed, at the local
Borg I jiggled the head of the dewalts (they had two) on display, and
both of those were easily persuaded to move back and forth a bit. The
saws I tried jiggling that had horizontal rails seemed a bit firmer.

- Josh

"GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Bay Area Dave wrote:
> > Jim,
> >
> > Do you attribute the mitered crown fitting to be a function of the
> > tool, or your experience and craftsmanship? Isn't knowing the
> > correct bevel and miter angle for crown 98 percent of the battle? I
> > recently did crown for the first time and it turned out fine, but not
> > until I looked up the formula for calculating the B & M angles. My
> > non slider DeWalt did only as well as my attention to detail. It
> > worked out ok, despite my lack of experience...(which I almost made
> > up for by reading, going slow, and making a test cut)
> >
>
> DeWalt makes crown stops for the 12" scms that make crown cuts easy. This
> saw is big enought to accept 6" crown, maybe bigger. Just remember the
> upside down and backwards way of cutting and you never have to worry about
> compound cuts and what the friggin angle it's supposed to be. Experience
> helps but once you cut a 16' piece of 6" oak crown wrong you won't do it
> again.......
>
> Check twice cut once.
>
> Gary

Thanks for the advice on the blade. Why are so many manufacturers
pushing their thin-kerf blades? What is their advantage? Do they cut
quicker?

As for the saws, the Makita, Ridgid, and Dewalt (yeah, big yellow is
now in the running again) all have really nice angle scales. The
Ridgid's is probably the easiest to set (nice big easily reachable
levers) followed by Makita and then Dewalt.

I like the idea of a sacrifical fence and plan on doing that. I
believe all of the above saws provide holes in their fences for
mounting a wood or poly fence.

Another question: does anyone have any comments about table flatness
and/or fence trueness? I've heard lots of good things about the
Makita, some great and some really poor things about the Dewalt, and I
only have 2 data points about the Ridgid (both good). It seems to me
that the Ridgid may have an easier time keeping their table flat
because it is one piece (vs. a turntable inside of a table design).

- Josh

"Erik" <erikl_nospam_at_nospam_syserco.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Buy the saw that you can set the miter and bevels most
> accurately. If the angle scales are to small you can't
> read/set to 1'deg. which is a must if you're going to do
> crown molding accurately. Get good after-market blade, not a
> thin-nerf, they flex to much unless you go slow and steady.
> Don't worry about the fence - add a sacrificial fence full
> length and use it for zero clearance on straight cuts.
> That Ridgid MSUV is neat. I wish I had one - got a POS
> portable stand.
>
> --
> Erik "Grumpa" Ahrens
> Apprentice Termite
> I'd much rather be hammered than nailed 8~)
>
> "Joshua" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> | Hello, everyone -
> |
> | I am in the market for a 12" SCMS and could use some
> advice with the
> | purchase. I have already read every post I could find on
> the subject
> | and was looking for more recent opinions (there are some
> newer saws
> | out).
> |
> | I'm looking for a saw that will really be a "jack of all
> trades". I
> | will be using it for deck framing in the immediate future,
> followed by
> | molding and trim work and some furniture work. I won't be
> | transporting it around too much, so size is not that much
> of a
> | concern. (I do plan on mounting it on Ridgid's MSUV,
> though, so I can
> | wheel it around the house and store it easily when my
> workshop reverts
> | back to a garage ;)
> |
> | I have done a whole bunch of research and have narrowed it
> down to
> | three models, each with a distinct set of advantages:
> |
> | 1. Ridgid MS1290LZ
> | Pros: Big capacity, decent price, I like the big
> turntable, seems
> | to have above-average dust collection
> capabilities,
> | laser-guide,
> | has all the miter and bevel detents I could want,
> good
> | detent-override mechanism, good bevel lock
> mechanism.
> | Cons: This sucker is huge. Dimensionally, this saw is
> probably 50%
> | larger than the other two I am looking at. Comes
> with a
> | so-so
> | (60-tooth) blade. Quality of Ridgid's newer
> tools?
> |
> | 2. Makita LS1212
> | Pros: Compact design. Both sliders use linear bearings
> (most
> | SCMSes
> | use a nylon bushing on one). Flip-up fence
> feature.
> | 96-tooth
> | blade. Winner of a couple magazine comparisons
> (Workbench
> | and
> | Popular Mechanics). Currently comes with a bonus
> 14.4v
> | drill.
> | Cons: No bevel detents at all. No miter detents for
> crown molding.
> | No laser (does that really matter, though?).
> Also, I
> | question
> | the long-term stability of the geometry of this
> saw. Because
> | the rails slide into the base instead of through
> the neck,
> | when the saw is locked in "chop-mode" there is an
> effective
> | 12"
> | or so lever arm from where the head assembly is
> supported.
> |
> | 3. Bosch 4412
> | Pros: Great ergonomics (bevel & miter locks up front,
> | multi-position
> | handle, etc.). Nice extra features like the
> table
> | extensions,
> | stock-stops, etc. I have had great luck w/ Bosch
> in the past
> | (router & jigsaw). Decent 80-tooth blade.
> | Cons: $100 more than the other two. Several people
> have mentioned
> | non-flat tables and/or fences.
> |
> | If you have experience with any of these saws, I would
> love to hear
> | your
> | thoughts!
> |
> | Thanks.
> |
> | - Josh

Thanks for that link--it is a great resource! Wish I had known about
that when I bought my router, and jigsaw, and...

Have you used the Makita 10"? What are your impressions?

Thanks!

- Josh

"BeerBoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<Siyub.427703$pl3.288324@pd7tw3no>...
> Have a look at the Makita 10" (LS1013). It's cutting capacity is close to
> the 12"ers but it's a lot cheaper. The prices seem to have come down on
> these lately and they are always highly rated tools. The cutting capacity
> is 3 5/8 x 12 at 90 degrees and the 12" is 3 7/8 x 12 1/4. Not a big
> difference. The DeWalt is a 4 x 12. It's not a big enough difference to me
> to justify the extra price. Blades are cheaper too.
> Also, have a look at http://www.powertools.info/default.asp for comparing
> tools.
> ---BeerBoy
>
> "Joshua" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hello, everyone -
> >
> > I am in the market for a 12" SCMS and could use some advice with the
> > purchase. I have already read every post I could find on the subject
> > and was looking for more recent opinions (there are some newer saws
> > out).
> >
> > I'm looking for a saw that will really be a "jack of all trades". I
> > will be using it for deck framing in the immediate future, followed by
> > molding and trim work and some furniture work. I won't be
> > transporting it around too much, so size is not that much of a
> > concern. (I do plan on mounting it on Ridgid's MSUV, though, so I can
> > wheel it around the house and store it easily when my workshop reverts
> > back to a garage ;)
> >
> > I have done a whole bunch of research and have narrowed it down to
> > three models, each with a distinct set of advantages:
> >
> > 1. Ridgid MS1290LZ
> > Pros: Big capacity, decent price, I like the big turntable, seems
> > to have above-average dust collection capabilities,
> > laser-guide,
> > has all the miter and bevel detents I could want, good
> > detent-override mechanism, good bevel lock mechanism.
> > Cons: This sucker is huge. Dimensionally, this saw is probably 50%
> > larger than the other two I am looking at. Comes with a
> > so-so
> > (60-tooth) blade. Quality of Ridgid's newer tools?
> >
> > 2. Makita LS1212
> > Pros: Compact design. Both sliders use linear bearings (most
> > SCMSes
> > use a nylon bushing on one). Flip-up fence feature.
> > 96-tooth
> > blade. Winner of a couple magazine comparisons (Workbench
> > and
> > Popular Mechanics). Currently comes with a bonus 14.4v
> > drill.
> > Cons: No bevel detents at all. No miter detents for crown molding.
> > No laser (does that really matter, though?). Also, I
> > question
> > the long-term stability of the geometry of this saw. Because
> > the rails slide into the base instead of through the neck,
> > when the saw is locked in "chop-mode" there is an effective
> > 12"
> > or so lever arm from where the head assembly is supported.
> >
> > 3. Bosch 4412
> > Pros: Great ergonomics (bevel & miter locks up front,
> > multi-position
> > handle, etc.). Nice extra features like the table
> > extensions,
> > stock-stops, etc. I have had great luck w/ Bosch in the past
> > (router & jigsaw). Decent 80-tooth blade.
> > Cons: $100 more than the other two. Several people have mentioned
> > non-flat tables and/or fences.
> >
> > If you have experience with any of these saws, I would love to hear
> > your
> > thoughts!
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > - Josh

A couple of people have now recommended the Makita 10". What makes
this better than the 12"? Is it considerably better than the 12"? In
the near term, I will need to cut some 4x4 and 4x6 lumber.

Thanks -

- Josh

Manny Davis <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> DLGlos <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > On 19 Nov 2003 13:05:59 -0800, [email protected] (Joshua) wrote:
> >
> >>Thanks for the advice on the blade. Why are so many manufacturers
> >>pushing their thin-kerf blades? What is their advantage? Do they cut
> >>quicker?
> >>
> >>As for the saws, the Makita, Ridgid, and Dewalt (yeah, big yellow is
> >>now in the running again) all have really nice angle scales. The
> >>Ridgid's is probably the easiest to set (nice big easily reachable
> >>levers) followed by Makita and then Dewalt.
> >>
> >>I like the idea of a sacrifical fence and plan on doing that. I
> >>believe all of the above saws provide holes in their fences for
> >>mounting a wood or poly fence.
> >>
> >>Another question: does anyone have any comments about table flatness
> >>and/or fence trueness? I've heard lots of good things about the
> >>Makita, some great and some really poor things about the Dewalt, and I
> >>only have 2 data points about the Ridgid (both good). It seems to me
> >>that the Ridgid may have an easier time keeping their table flat
> >>because it is one piece (vs. a turntable inside of a table design).
> >>
> >>- Josh
> >
> > Just to confuse you up some more, I have always heard good things
> > about the Hitachi sliders. Seems their 8 1/2"er was one of the first,
> > and is widely considered to be a good example.
>
> It was one of the first, if not thee first. But it's not that great
> of a saw. I've used quite a few of them and right now, the Makita ten
> incher is the best, IMNSHO.
>
> >Their newer C10FSB
> > looks to be a very nice saw, and seems very reasonably priced at $399.
> > If you like lasers, you can buy the same saw with one for a extra
> > C-note (Model C10FSH). I'm looking to replace my crappy Craftsman with
> > broken fence, which was a gift from my father-in-law.
> >
> > Note: I am in no way connected with Hitachi. However, I have often
> > found their tools to be right up there with the best, but priced more
> > like the Ryobi line. Maybe its advertising and overhead. Haven't seen
> > to many Hitachi advertisements or promos. I did buy one of the 14.4V
> > cordless drill kits ($79 @ Lowes with 2 batteries, a kick ass
> > flashlight, and charger) to replace an ailing, older Porter Cable, and
> > have been amazed.
> >
> > DLGlos
> >

Jim,

Do you attribute the mitered crown fitting to be a function of the tool,
or your experience and craftsmanship? Isn't knowing the correct bevel
and miter angle for crown 98 percent of the battle? I recently did
crown for the first time and it turned out fine, but not until I looked
up the formula for calculating the B & M angles. My non slider DeWalt
did only as well as my attention to detail. It worked out ok, despite
my lack of experience...(which I almost made up for by reading, going
slow, and making a test cut)


dave

James D Kountz wrote:

> Buy the Dewalt, you wont be disappointed. I have two of them and one I use
> everyday rigorously. I don't baby it and I've done nothing but change the
> blade. Last week I mitered some 8" oak crown and I didn't even have to fine
> tune the joint. Now the other one is in my shop and I do baby it. Its just a
> damn good saw. I've owned a Delta and a Bosch which I wouldn't spit on if
> someone paid me. The damn thing literally fell apart. I did try to take care
> of it but it just wouldn't take the abuse that a full time construction crew
> building log homes everyday can put it through. The Dewalt can and has so
> far. More money yes but worth it. About the Ridgid MSUV, I love mine use it
> everyday.
>
> Jim
>
>
> "Bannerstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Other criteria should be the fences, I've noticed the Bosch has rather
>
> short
>
>>fences where the Dewalt much better. Now I've heard vendor's gripe about
>
> the
>
>>Dewalts from a durability standpoint but the Contractors I know that use
>
> them
>
>>and move them around every day really like them.
>>
>>Upswept motor allows better clearance for bevel cuts to the motor side.
>>
>>I wouldn't base my purchase at all on the blade, in fact most factory
>
> blades I
>
>>use for things that I'd rather not cut with my good blade.
>>
>>If it comes down to a tie go with the company that supports their products
>
> the
>
>>best.
>>
>>David
>>
>>In article <[email protected]>, Joshua
>
> says...
>
>>>Hello, everyone -
>>>
>>>I am in the market for a 12" SCMS and could use some advice with the
>>>purchase. I have already read every post I could find on the subject
>>>and was looking for more recent opinions (there are some newer saws
>>>out).
>>>
>>>I'm looking for a saw that will really be a "jack of all trades". I
>>>will be using it for deck framing in the immediate future, followed by
>>>molding and trim work and some furniture work. I won't be
>>>transporting it around too much, so size is not that much of a
>>>concern. (I do plan on mounting it on Ridgid's MSUV, though, so I can
>>>wheel it around the house and store it easily when my workshop reverts
>>>back to a garage ;)
>>>
>>>I have done a whole bunch of research and have narrowed it down to
>>>three models, each with a distinct set of advantages:
>>>
>>>1. Ridgid MS1290LZ
>>> Pros: Big capacity, decent price, I like the big turntable, seems
>>> to have above-average dust collection capabilities,
>>>laser-guide,
>>> has all the miter and bevel detents I could want, good
>>> detent-override mechanism, good bevel lock mechanism.
>>> Cons: This sucker is huge. Dimensionally, this saw is probably 50%
>>> larger than the other two I am looking at. Comes with a
>>>so-so
>>> (60-tooth) blade. Quality of Ridgid's newer tools?
>>>
>>>2. Makita LS1212
>>> Pros: Compact design. Both sliders use linear bearings (most
>>>SCMSes
>>> use a nylon bushing on one). Flip-up fence feature.
>>>96-tooth
>>> blade. Winner of a couple magazine comparisons (Workbench
>>>and
>>> Popular Mechanics). Currently comes with a bonus 14.4v
>>>drill.
>>> Cons: No bevel detents at all. No miter detents for crown molding.
>>> No laser (does that really matter, though?). Also, I
>>>question
>>> the long-term stability of the geometry of this saw. Because
>>> the rails slide into the base instead of through the neck,
>>> when the saw is locked in "chop-mode" there is an effective
>>>12"
>>> or so lever arm from where the head assembly is supported.
>>>
>>>3. Bosch 4412
>>> Pros: Great ergonomics (bevel & miter locks up front,
>>>multi-position
>>> handle, etc.). Nice extra features like the table
>>>extensions,
>>> stock-stops, etc. I have had great luck w/ Bosch in the past
>>> (router & jigsaw). Decent 80-tooth blade.
>>> Cons: $100 more than the other two. Several people have mentioned
>>> non-flat tables and/or fences.
>>>
>>>If you have experience with any of these saws, I would love to hear
>>>your
>>>thoughts!
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>- Josh
>>
>
>

"Joshua" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A couple of people have now recommended the Makita 10". What makes
> this better than the 12"?

I'm not saying it's better but it is a lot cheaper and the cutting
capacities are only slightly less than the 12". I unfortunately own a
Craftsman and it stinks. I will hopefully replace it someday and if it was
today it would be with the LS1013. I think it's good "Bang for your buck".
That new Bosch 12" slider is nice but a little too pricey for me right now.
The Makita 10" also is very popular with finish carpenters (in my area
anyways) and they probably use them more than anybody.
I've seen the Makita 10" on sale quite a bit lately but was told the stock
blades aren't that great. This might be true of a lot of saws though.
One other consideration is that a decent 12" blade is probably $40 more than
the same 10".
I'm not trying to change your mind, just giving you some options.
---BeerBoy


Is it considerably better than the 12"? In
> the near term, I will need to cut some 4x4 and 4x6 lumber.
>
> Thanks -
>
> - Josh
>
> Manny Davis <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > DLGlos <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >
> > > On 19 Nov 2003 13:05:59 -0800, [email protected] (Joshua) wrote:
> > >
> > >>Thanks for the advice on the blade. Why are so many manufacturers
> > >>pushing their thin-kerf blades? What is their advantage? Do they cut
> > >>quicker?
> > >>
> > >>As for the saws, the Makita, Ridgid, and Dewalt (yeah, big yellow is
> > >>now in the running again) all have really nice angle scales. The
> > >>Ridgid's is probably the easiest to set (nice big easily reachable
> > >>levers) followed by Makita and then Dewalt.
> > >>
> > >>I like the idea of a sacrifical fence and plan on doing that. I
> > >>believe all of the above saws provide holes in their fences for
> > >>mounting a wood or poly fence.
> > >>
> > >>Another question: does anyone have any comments about table flatness
> > >>and/or fence trueness? I've heard lots of good things about the
> > >>Makita, some great and some really poor things about the Dewalt, and I
> > >>only have 2 data points about the Ridgid (both good). It seems to me
> > >>that the Ridgid may have an easier time keeping their table flat
> > >>because it is one piece (vs. a turntable inside of a table design).
> > >>
> > >>- Josh
> > >
> > > Just to confuse you up some more, I have always heard good things
> > > about the Hitachi sliders. Seems their 8 1/2"er was one of the first,
> > > and is widely considered to be a good example.
> >
> > It was one of the first, if not thee first. But it's not that great
> > of a saw. I've used quite a few of them and right now, the Makita ten
> > incher is the best, IMNSHO.
> >
> > >Their newer C10FSB
> > > looks to be a very nice saw, and seems very reasonably priced at $399.
> > > If you like lasers, you can buy the same saw with one for a extra
> > > C-note (Model C10FSH). I'm looking to replace my crappy Craftsman with
> > > broken fence, which was a gift from my father-in-law.
> > >
> > > Note: I am in no way connected with Hitachi. However, I have often
> > > found their tools to be right up there with the best, but priced more
> > > like the Ryobi line. Maybe its advertising and overhead. Haven't seen
> > > to many Hitachi advertisements or promos. I did buy one of the 14.4V
> > > cordless drill kits ($79 @ Lowes with 2 batteries, a kick ass
> > > flashlight, and charger) to replace an ailing, older Porter Cable, and
> > > have been amazed.
> > >
> > > DLGlos
> > >

Have a look at the Makita 10" (LS1013). It's cutting capacity is close to
the 12"ers but it's a lot cheaper. The prices seem to have come down on
these lately and they are always highly rated tools. The cutting capacity
is 3 5/8 x 12 at 90 degrees and the 12" is 3 7/8 x 12 1/4. Not a big
difference. The DeWalt is a 4 x 12. It's not a big enough difference to me
to justify the extra price. Blades are cheaper too.
Also, have a look at http://www.powertools.info/default.asp for comparing
tools.
---BeerBoy

"Joshua" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello, everyone -
>
> I am in the market for a 12" SCMS and could use some advice with the
> purchase. I have already read every post I could find on the subject
> and was looking for more recent opinions (there are some newer saws
> out).
>
> I'm looking for a saw that will really be a "jack of all trades". I
> will be using it for deck framing in the immediate future, followed by
> molding and trim work and some furniture work. I won't be
> transporting it around too much, so size is not that much of a
> concern. (I do plan on mounting it on Ridgid's MSUV, though, so I can
> wheel it around the house and store it easily when my workshop reverts
> back to a garage ;)
>
> I have done a whole bunch of research and have narrowed it down to
> three models, each with a distinct set of advantages:
>
> 1. Ridgid MS1290LZ
> Pros: Big capacity, decent price, I like the big turntable, seems
> to have above-average dust collection capabilities,
> laser-guide,
> has all the miter and bevel detents I could want, good
> detent-override mechanism, good bevel lock mechanism.
> Cons: This sucker is huge. Dimensionally, this saw is probably 50%
> larger than the other two I am looking at. Comes with a
> so-so
> (60-tooth) blade. Quality of Ridgid's newer tools?
>
> 2. Makita LS1212
> Pros: Compact design. Both sliders use linear bearings (most
> SCMSes
> use a nylon bushing on one). Flip-up fence feature.
> 96-tooth
> blade. Winner of a couple magazine comparisons (Workbench
> and
> Popular Mechanics). Currently comes with a bonus 14.4v
> drill.
> Cons: No bevel detents at all. No miter detents for crown molding.
> No laser (does that really matter, though?). Also, I
> question
> the long-term stability of the geometry of this saw. Because
> the rails slide into the base instead of through the neck,
> when the saw is locked in "chop-mode" there is an effective
> 12"
> or so lever arm from where the head assembly is supported.
>
> 3. Bosch 4412
> Pros: Great ergonomics (bevel & miter locks up front,
> multi-position
> handle, etc.). Nice extra features like the table
> extensions,
> stock-stops, etc. I have had great luck w/ Bosch in the past
> (router & jigsaw). Decent 80-tooth blade.
> Cons: $100 more than the other two. Several people have mentioned
> non-flat tables and/or fences.
>
> If you have experience with any of these saws, I would love to hear
> your
> thoughts!
>
> Thanks.
>
> - Josh

Buy the Dewalt, you wont be disappointed. I have two of them and one I use
everyday rigorously. I don't baby it and I've done nothing but change the
blade. Last week I mitered some 8" oak crown and I didn't even have to fine
tune the joint. Now the other one is in my shop and I do baby it. Its just a
damn good saw. I've owned a Delta and a Bosch which I wouldn't spit on if
someone paid me. The damn thing literally fell apart. I did try to take care
of it but it just wouldn't take the abuse that a full time construction crew
building log homes everyday can put it through. The Dewalt can and has so
far. More money yes but worth it. About the Ridgid MSUV, I love mine use it
everyday.

Jim


"Bannerstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Other criteria should be the fences, I've noticed the Bosch has rather
short
> fences where the Dewalt much better. Now I've heard vendor's gripe about
the
> Dewalts from a durability standpoint but the Contractors I know that use
them
> and move them around every day really like them.
>
> Upswept motor allows better clearance for bevel cuts to the motor side.
>
> I wouldn't base my purchase at all on the blade, in fact most factory
blades I
> use for things that I'd rather not cut with my good blade.
>
> If it comes down to a tie go with the company that supports their products
the
> best.
>
> David
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Joshua
says...
> >
> >Hello, everyone -
> >
> >I am in the market for a 12" SCMS and could use some advice with the
> >purchase. I have already read every post I could find on the subject
> >and was looking for more recent opinions (there are some newer saws
> >out).
> >
> >I'm looking for a saw that will really be a "jack of all trades". I
> >will be using it for deck framing in the immediate future, followed by
> >molding and trim work and some furniture work. I won't be
> >transporting it around too much, so size is not that much of a
> >concern. (I do plan on mounting it on Ridgid's MSUV, though, so I can
> >wheel it around the house and store it easily when my workshop reverts
> >back to a garage ;)
> >
> >I have done a whole bunch of research and have narrowed it down to
> >three models, each with a distinct set of advantages:
> >
> >1. Ridgid MS1290LZ
> > Pros: Big capacity, decent price, I like the big turntable, seems
> > to have above-average dust collection capabilities,
> >laser-guide,
> > has all the miter and bevel detents I could want, good
> > detent-override mechanism, good bevel lock mechanism.
> > Cons: This sucker is huge. Dimensionally, this saw is probably 50%
> > larger than the other two I am looking at. Comes with a
> >so-so
> > (60-tooth) blade. Quality of Ridgid's newer tools?
> >
> >2. Makita LS1212
> > Pros: Compact design. Both sliders use linear bearings (most
> >SCMSes
> > use a nylon bushing on one). Flip-up fence feature.
> >96-tooth
> > blade. Winner of a couple magazine comparisons (Workbench
> >and
> > Popular Mechanics). Currently comes with a bonus 14.4v
> >drill.
> > Cons: No bevel detents at all. No miter detents for crown molding.
> > No laser (does that really matter, though?). Also, I
> >question
> > the long-term stability of the geometry of this saw. Because
> > the rails slide into the base instead of through the neck,
> > when the saw is locked in "chop-mode" there is an effective
> >12"
> > or so lever arm from where the head assembly is supported.
> >
> >3. Bosch 4412
> > Pros: Great ergonomics (bevel & miter locks up front,
> >multi-position
> > handle, etc.). Nice extra features like the table
> >extensions,
> > stock-stops, etc. I have had great luck w/ Bosch in the past
> > (router & jigsaw). Decent 80-tooth blade.
> > Cons: $100 more than the other two. Several people have mentioned
> > non-flat tables and/or fences.
> >
> >If you have experience with any of these saws, I would love to hear
> >your
> >thoughts!
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >- Josh
>

DLGlos <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 19 Nov 2003 13:05:59 -0800, [email protected] (Joshua) wrote:
>
>>Thanks for the advice on the blade. Why are so many manufacturers
>>pushing their thin-kerf blades? What is their advantage? Do they cut
>>quicker?
>>
>>As for the saws, the Makita, Ridgid, and Dewalt (yeah, big yellow is
>>now in the running again) all have really nice angle scales. The
>>Ridgid's is probably the easiest to set (nice big easily reachable
>>levers) followed by Makita and then Dewalt.
>>
>>I like the idea of a sacrifical fence and plan on doing that. I
>>believe all of the above saws provide holes in their fences for
>>mounting a wood or poly fence.
>>
>>Another question: does anyone have any comments about table flatness
>>and/or fence trueness? I've heard lots of good things about the
>>Makita, some great and some really poor things about the Dewalt, and I
>>only have 2 data points about the Ridgid (both good). It seems to me
>>that the Ridgid may have an easier time keeping their table flat
>>because it is one piece (vs. a turntable inside of a table design).
>>
>>- Josh
>
> Just to confuse you up some more, I have always heard good things
> about the Hitachi sliders. Seems their 8 1/2"er was one of the first,
> and is widely considered to be a good example.

It was one of the first, if not thee first. But it's not that great
of a saw. I've used quite a few of them and right now, the Makita ten
incher is the best, IMNSHO.

>Their newer C10FSB
> looks to be a very nice saw, and seems very reasonably priced at $399.
> If you like lasers, you can buy the same saw with one for a extra
> C-note (Model C10FSH). I'm looking to replace my crappy Craftsman with
> broken fence, which was a gift from my father-in-law.
>
> Note: I am in no way connected with Hitachi. However, I have often
> found their tools to be right up there with the best, but priced more
> like the Ryobi line. Maybe its advertising and overhead. Haven't seen
> to many Hitachi advertisements or promos. I did buy one of the 14.4V
> cordless drill kits ($79 @ Lowes with 2 batteries, a kick ass
> flashlight, and charger) to replace an ailing, older Porter Cable, and
> have been amazed.
>
> DLGlos
>

Other criteria should be the fences, I've noticed the Bosch has rather short
fences where the Dewalt much better. Now I've heard vendor's gripe about the
Dewalts from a durability standpoint but the Contractors I know that use them
and move them around every day really like them.

Upswept motor allows better clearance for bevel cuts to the motor side.

I wouldn't base my purchase at all on the blade, in fact most factory blades I
use for things that I'd rather not cut with my good blade.

If it comes down to a tie go with the company that supports their products the
best.

David

In article <[email protected]>, Joshua says...
>
>Hello, everyone -
>
>I am in the market for a 12" SCMS and could use some advice with the
>purchase. I have already read every post I could find on the subject
>and was looking for more recent opinions (there are some newer saws
>out).
>
>I'm looking for a saw that will really be a "jack of all trades". I
>will be using it for deck framing in the immediate future, followed by
>molding and trim work and some furniture work. I won't be
>transporting it around too much, so size is not that much of a
>concern. (I do plan on mounting it on Ridgid's MSUV, though, so I can
>wheel it around the house and store it easily when my workshop reverts
>back to a garage ;)
>
>I have done a whole bunch of research and have narrowed it down to
>three models, each with a distinct set of advantages:
>
>1. Ridgid MS1290LZ
> Pros: Big capacity, decent price, I like the big turntable, seems
> to have above-average dust collection capabilities,
>laser-guide,
> has all the miter and bevel detents I could want, good
> detent-override mechanism, good bevel lock mechanism.
> Cons: This sucker is huge. Dimensionally, this saw is probably 50%
> larger than the other two I am looking at. Comes with a
>so-so
> (60-tooth) blade. Quality of Ridgid's newer tools?
>
>2. Makita LS1212
> Pros: Compact design. Both sliders use linear bearings (most
>SCMSes
> use a nylon bushing on one). Flip-up fence feature.
>96-tooth
> blade. Winner of a couple magazine comparisons (Workbench
>and
> Popular Mechanics). Currently comes with a bonus 14.4v
>drill.
> Cons: No bevel detents at all. No miter detents for crown molding.
> No laser (does that really matter, though?). Also, I
>question
> the long-term stability of the geometry of this saw. Because
> the rails slide into the base instead of through the neck,
> when the saw is locked in "chop-mode" there is an effective
>12"
> or so lever arm from where the head assembly is supported.
>
>3. Bosch 4412
> Pros: Great ergonomics (bevel & miter locks up front,
>multi-position
> handle, etc.). Nice extra features like the table
>extensions,
> stock-stops, etc. I have had great luck w/ Bosch in the past
> (router & jigsaw). Decent 80-tooth blade.
> Cons: $100 more than the other two. Several people have mentioned
> non-flat tables and/or fences.
>
>If you have experience with any of these saws, I would love to hear
>your
>thoughts!
>
>Thanks.
>
>- Josh

Bay Area Dave wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Do you attribute the mitered crown fitting to be a function of the
> tool, or your experience and craftsmanship? Isn't knowing the
> correct bevel and miter angle for crown 98 percent of the battle? I
> recently did crown for the first time and it turned out fine, but not
> until I looked up the formula for calculating the B & M angles. My
> non slider DeWalt did only as well as my attention to detail. It
> worked out ok, despite my lack of experience...(which I almost made
> up for by reading, going slow, and making a test cut)
>

DeWalt makes crown stops for the 12" scms that make crown cuts easy. This
saw is big enought to accept 6" crown, maybe bigger. Just remember the
upside down and backwards way of cutting and you never have to worry about
compound cuts and what the friggin angle it's supposed to be. Experience
helps but once you cut a 16' piece of 6" oak crown wrong you won't do it
again.......

Check twice cut once.

Gary

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Joshua) wrote:

> Thanks for your insight, everyone. I have actually had occassion to
> use the Dewalt 708 a few times for some rough framing. It worked
> really well for that, but I had some reservations about its ability
> for precision cuts. The saw seemed to have a bit of lateral play in
> the head such that the blade could wiggle a bit. Indeed, at the local
> Borg I jiggled the head of the dewalts (they had two) on display, and
> both of those were easily persuaded to move back and forth a bit. The
> saws I tried jiggling that had horizontal rails seemed a bit firmer.
>


Interesting. I bought my Dewalt (the 12-inch SCMS) because it had *less*
lateral play than the Makita or Delta or whatever else it was I looked
at. I can't claim that my method of testing was especially scientific
(wiggling the handle with the saw fully up, halfway down, and fully
down, in/out, et al.), but it seems to have worked for me in that the
cuts I get are glass smooth and precisely on the money in terms of
accuracy.

<div ="low-level rant">
I'm surprised we haven't heard from the
don't-buy-Dewalt-because-they-make-toasters people in this thread. Well,
Bosch makes toasters and a lot of other small kitchen appliances too,
and I don't think it's hurt their woodworking tools one bit. (Hey! Was
that a pun?!) Low-end Black & Decker is low end Black & Decker, and
Dewalt is Dewalt. If you don't like the color yellow, buy something
else--but like my ancestors say, "There's no such thing as a bad color
on a good horse." But then, Finnish horses do tend to come in some ugly
shades. :)
</div>

I bought the Makita LS1013 the begining of last summer. I had to replace my old
ceder fence and planned on building my own. Lowes had these on display, which I
had admired for quite some time. While picking up some last minute hardware,
string and quickrete, I noticed a closeout sale normally $499.00 on sale this
week for $399.00. They have quit stocking this and many other Makita products.

Don't know if this qualifies for a mini-gloat.

I have put this to a lot of use since then and am quite happy with the saw and
the supplied blade. I have a replacement blade I use for the finest cuts in
mouldings or when looking for a super glass smooth cut. Still cuts using the 60
tooth blade that came mounted are smooth enough for 95 percent of all my other
uses.

HTH

Joe


On 19 Nov 2003 13:07:29 -0800, [email protected] (Joshua) wrote:

>Thanks for that link--it is a great resource! Wish I had known about
>that when I bought my router, and jigsaw, and...
>
>Have you used the Makita 10"? What are your impressions?
>
>Thanks!
>
>- Josh
>
>"BeerBoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<Siyub.427703$pl3.288324@pd7tw3no>...
>> Have a look at the Makita 10" (LS1013). It's cutting capacity is close to
>> the 12"ers but it's a lot cheaper. The prices seem to have come down on
>> these lately and they are always highly rated tools. The cutting capacity
>> is 3 5/8 x 12 at 90 degrees and the 12" is 3 7/8 x 12 1/4. Not a big
>> difference. The DeWalt is a 4 x 12. It's not a big enough difference to me
>> to justify the extra price. Blades are cheaper too.
>> Also, have a look at http://www.powertools.info/default.asp for comparing
>> tools.
>> ---BeerBoy
>>
>> "Joshua" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Hello, everyone -
>> >
>> > I am in the market for a 12" SCMS and could use some advice with the
>> > purchase. I have already read every post I could find on the subject
>> > and was looking for more recent opinions (there are some newer saws
>> > out).
>> >
>> > I'm looking for a saw that will really be a "jack of all trades". I
>> > will be using it for deck framing in the immediate future, followed by
>> > molding and trim work and some furniture work. I won't be
>> > transporting it around too much, so size is not that much of a
>> > concern. (I do plan on mounting it on Ridgid's MSUV, though, so I can
>> > wheel it around the house and store it easily when my workshop reverts
>> > back to a garage ;)
>> >
>> > I have done a whole bunch of research and have narrowed it down to
>> > three models, each with a distinct set of advantages:
>> >
>> > 1. Ridgid MS1290LZ
>> > Pros: Big capacity, decent price, I like the big turntable, seems
>> > to have above-average dust collection capabilities,
>> > laser-guide,
>> > has all the miter and bevel detents I could want, good
>> > detent-override mechanism, good bevel lock mechanism.
>> > Cons: This sucker is huge. Dimensionally, this saw is probably 50%
>> > larger than the other two I am looking at. Comes with a
>> > so-so
>> > (60-tooth) blade. Quality of Ridgid's newer tools?
>> >
>> > 2. Makita LS1212
>> > Pros: Compact design. Both sliders use linear bearings (most
>> > SCMSes
>> > use a nylon bushing on one). Flip-up fence feature.
>> > 96-tooth
>> > blade. Winner of a couple magazine comparisons (Workbench
>> > and
>> > Popular Mechanics). Currently comes with a bonus 14.4v
>> > drill.
>> > Cons: No bevel detents at all. No miter detents for crown molding.
>> > No laser (does that really matter, though?). Also, I
>> > question
>> > the long-term stability of the geometry of this saw. Because
>> > the rails slide into the base instead of through the neck,
>> > when the saw is locked in "chop-mode" there is an effective
>> > 12"
>> > or so lever arm from where the head assembly is supported.
>> >
>> > 3. Bosch 4412
>> > Pros: Great ergonomics (bevel & miter locks up front,
>> > multi-position
>> > handle, etc.). Nice extra features like the table
>> > extensions,
>> > stock-stops, etc. I have had great luck w/ Bosch in the past
>> > (router & jigsaw). Decent 80-tooth blade.
>> > Cons: $100 more than the other two. Several people have mentioned
>> > non-flat tables and/or fences.
>> >
>> > If you have experience with any of these saws, I would love to hear
>> > your
>> > thoughts!
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > - Josh

Buy the saw that you can set the miter and bevels most
accurately. If the angle scales are to small you can't
read/set to 1'deg. which is a must if you're going to do
crown molding accurately. Get good after-market blade, not a
thin-nerf, they flex to much unless you go slow and steady.
Don't worry about the fence - add a sacrificial fence full
length and use it for zero clearance on straight cuts.
That Ridgid MSUV is neat. I wish I had one - got a POS
portable stand.

--
Erik "Grumpa" Ahrens
Apprentice Termite
I'd much rather be hammered than nailed 8~)

"Joshua" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
| Hello, everyone -
|
| I am in the market for a 12" SCMS and could use some
advice with the
| purchase. I have already read every post I could find on
the subject
| and was looking for more recent opinions (there are some
newer saws
| out).
|
| I'm looking for a saw that will really be a "jack of all
trades". I
| will be using it for deck framing in the immediate future,
followed by
| molding and trim work and some furniture work. I won't be
| transporting it around too much, so size is not that much
of a
| concern. (I do plan on mounting it on Ridgid's MSUV,
though, so I can
| wheel it around the house and store it easily when my
workshop reverts
| back to a garage ;)
|
| I have done a whole bunch of research and have narrowed it
down to
| three models, each with a distinct set of advantages:
|
| 1. Ridgid MS1290LZ
| Pros: Big capacity, decent price, I like the big
turntable, seems
| to have above-average dust collection
capabilities,
| laser-guide,
| has all the miter and bevel detents I could want,
good
| detent-override mechanism, good bevel lock
mechanism.
| Cons: This sucker is huge. Dimensionally, this saw is
probably 50%
| larger than the other two I am looking at. Comes
with a
| so-so
| (60-tooth) blade. Quality of Ridgid's newer
tools?
|
| 2. Makita LS1212
| Pros: Compact design. Both sliders use linear bearings
(most
| SCMSes
| use a nylon bushing on one). Flip-up fence
feature.
| 96-tooth
| blade. Winner of a couple magazine comparisons
(Workbench
| and
| Popular Mechanics). Currently comes with a bonus
14.4v
| drill.
| Cons: No bevel detents at all. No miter detents for
crown molding.
| No laser (does that really matter, though?).
Also, I
| question
| the long-term stability of the geometry of this
saw. Because
| the rails slide into the base instead of through
the neck,
| when the saw is locked in "chop-mode" there is an
effective
| 12"
| or so lever arm from where the head assembly is
supported.
|
| 3. Bosch 4412
| Pros: Great ergonomics (bevel & miter locks up front,
| multi-position
| handle, etc.). Nice extra features like the
table
| extensions,
| stock-stops, etc. I have had great luck w/ Bosch
in the past
| (router & jigsaw). Decent 80-tooth blade.
| Cons: $100 more than the other two. Several people
have mentioned
| non-flat tables and/or fences.
|
| If you have experience with any of these saws, I would
love to hear
| your
| thoughts!
|
| Thanks.
|
| - Josh