I am only two years into woodworking as a hobby. A while ago I received my
first order of cherry, from my local hardwood supplier. I received 3 sheets
of cherry veneer ply, and about 100bf rough cherry, most 4/4 and some 8/4.
This is for a rather elaborate kitchen pantry and associated side cabinets.
I recently realized I had ordered insufficient ply, so I ordered two more
sheets (which pinches at $90/sheet). These second two sheets are from the
same manufacturer, but the veneer is very much different.
The first sheets are distinctly red toned, with little black flicks in
places. Really attractive wood. The second set of two sheets are cream
colored -- still of obvious of high quality -- and they too, are beatiful
sheets of wood. I am assuming the former is heartwood veneer and the latter
sapwood veneer.
Instead of taking the two sapwood sheets back, I am inclined to make the
shelves from these, and the casework from the reddish heartwood sheets. The
serendipitous result is going to look quite nice, with a wonderful contrast
produced for the cabinet interiors.
I will be using the rough-cut cherry lumber for face-frames, doors, edge
treatments, moldings, etc.
Now, my questions:
Having not yet milled any of the rough cherry, it appears most boards
contain both heartwood and sapwood. Should I be attempting to mill sapwood
surfaces for facing/banding the light colored sheet goods, and milling to
heartwood surfaces for all the exterior show parts? Are there resources on
the net that describe the process of doing this well (i.e. with little
waste)?
Do those of you who work with cherry every use sapwood on the show side?
Have I shortchanged myself with the second sheet goods order by being first
confused upon receiving it, then anxious, and then delighted?
/rick.
RickS wrote:
> Having not yet milled any of the rough cherry, it appears most boards
> contain both heartwood and sapwood. Should I be attempting to mill sapwood
> surfaces for facing/banding the light colored sheet goods, and milling to
> heartwood surfaces for all the exterior show parts? Are there resources on
> the net that describe the process of doing this well (i.e. with little
> waste)?
>
Unless you ordered a lot of extra cherry, I think you'd run the risk of
not having the proper mix of heartwood and sapwood to pull this off.
In my opinion, planning all those cuts with those constraints would be
a total nightmare.
What are you going to do if you need a 1 3/4" wide piece for a face
frame, but only have 1 1/2" of heartwood..
If it were me, I wouldn't worry about matching all the colors. To me,
part of the charm of a homemade piece is that the wood does show some
color variation (I use a lot of oak, so I see this in a lot of my
pieces). It's nice, again IMO, not to have some totally uniformed
colored piece, like the MDF furniture at Walmart.
Others may respond on this but do they really cut veneer out of
sapwood? I would suspect that the difference in tone is due to light
exposure or age or both. In time, the lighter sheets should also
darken.
For cherry, I always cut off the sap wood which is why I hand select my
pieces to assure I have heartwood.
RickS wrote:
> I am only two years into woodworking as a hobby. A while ago I received my
> first order of cherry, from my local hardwood supplier. I received 3 sheets
> of cherry veneer ply, and about 100bf rough cherry, most 4/4 and some 8/4.
> This is for a rather elaborate kitchen pantry and associated side cabinets.
>
> I recently realized I had ordered insufficient ply, so I ordered two more
> sheets (which pinches at $90/sheet). These second two sheets are from the
> same manufacturer, but the veneer is very much different.
>
> The first sheets are distinctly red toned, with little black flicks in
> places. Really attractive wood. The second set of two sheets are cream
> colored -- still of obvious of high quality -- and they too, are beatiful
> sheets of wood. I am assuming the former is heartwood veneer and the latter
> sapwood veneer.
>
> Instead of taking the two sapwood sheets back, I am inclined to make the
> shelves from these, and the casework from the reddish heartwood sheets. The
> serendipitous result is going to look quite nice, with a wonderful contrast
> produced for the cabinet interiors.
>
> I will be using the rough-cut cherry lumber for face-frames, doors, edge
> treatments, moldings, etc.
>
> Now, my questions:
>
> Having not yet milled any of the rough cherry, it appears most boards
> contain both heartwood and sapwood. Should I be attempting to mill sapwood
> surfaces for facing/banding the light colored sheet goods, and milling to
> heartwood surfaces for all the exterior show parts? Are there resources on
> the net that describe the process of doing this well (i.e. with little
> waste)?
>
> Do those of you who work with cherry every use sapwood on the show side?
>
> Have I shortchanged myself with the second sheet goods order by being first
> confused upon receiving it, then anxious, and then delighted?
>
> /rick.
RickS wrote:
> I am only two years into woodworking as a hobby. A while ago I received my
> first order of cherry, from my local hardwood supplier. I received 3 sheets
> of cherry veneer ply, and about 100bf rough cherry, most 4/4 and some 8/4.
> This is for a rather elaborate kitchen pantry and associated side cabinets.
>
> I recently realized I had ordered insufficient ply, so I ordered two more
> sheets (which pinches at $90/sheet). These second two sheets are from the
> same manufacturer, but the veneer is very much different.
>
> The first sheets are distinctly red toned, with little black flicks in
> places. Really attractive wood. The second set of two sheets are cream
> colored -- still of obvious of high quality -- and they too, are beatiful
> sheets of wood. I am assuming the former is heartwood veneer and the latter
> sapwood veneer.
>
> Instead of taking the two sapwood sheets back, I am inclined to make the
> shelves from these, and the casework from the reddish heartwood sheets. The
> serendipitous result is going to look quite nice, with a wonderful contrast
> produced for the cabinet interiors.
>
> I will be using the rough-cut cherry lumber for face-frames, doors, edge
> treatments, moldings, etc.
>
> Now, my questions:
>
> Having not yet milled any of the rough cherry, it appears most boards
> contain both heartwood and sapwood. Should I be attempting to mill sapwood
> surfaces for facing/banding the light colored sheet goods, and milling to
> heartwood surfaces for all the exterior show parts? Are there resources on
> the net that describe the process of doing this well (i.e. with little
> waste)?
>
> Do those of you who work with cherry every use sapwood on the show side?
>
> Have I shortchanged myself with the second sheet goods order by being first
> confused upon receiving it, then anxious, and then delighted?
>
> /rick.
HI. I'm thinking the tone difference might be due to the region in
which the tree grew. Eastern cherry has the red hue to begin with.
Northern/midwest cherry has a browner tone which turns red with age.
After time the two will pretty much match. The difference is due to the
soil. The same holds true with walnut. Jana
"RickS" <rick --dot-- s --at-- comcast --dot-- net> wrote:
>> For cherry, I always cut off the sap wood....
>>
>=20
> Hmmm.=A0=A0This=A0is=A0what=A0I=A0wondered=A0too.=A0=A0But=A0having=A0=
never=A0worked=A0with=A0cherry
> before (or many woods for that matter) I was unsure if mixing
> sapwood/heartwood is a reasonable idea in cabinetry.
>=20
Strictly a matter of taste. I personally like the appearance of a litt=
le
sapwood in a cherry piece. Makes it seem more "real" and less like a
manufactured item. But more than 10-20% is too much for me.
--=20
It's turtles, all the way down
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> You can
>> build you clocks with cherry sapwood paint them orange if that is your
>> taste.
>
> That would look dumb. Yellow and blue has much more class.
>
And it matches the cuckoo :-).
--
It's turtles, all the way down
On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:26:48 -0400, "RickS" <rick --dot-- s --at--
comcast --dot-- net> wrote:
>The first sheets are distinctly red toned, with little black flicks in
>places. Really attractive wood. The second set of two sheets are cream
>colored -- still of obvious of high quality -- and they too, are beatiful
>sheets of wood. I am assuming the former is heartwood veneer and the latter
>sapwood veneer.
Try leaving a piece of the lighter one out in full sun for a few days
to see if it will darken up.
-Leuf
"Jerry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Others may respond on this but do they really cut veneer out of
> sapwood? I would suspect that the difference in tone is due to light
> exposure or age or both. In time, the lighter sheets should also
> darken.
>
BINGO.
As to solid wood, a bit of time selecting can put the accents where they
look the best.
NICE work!
Renata
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:17:39 -0700, ray <[email protected]> wrote:
-snip-
>Some of my projects including some cherry can be seen at:
>
>http://webpages.charter.net/ray93402/Woodwork/woodwork.html
>
On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:26:48 -0400, "RickS" <rick --dot-- s --at--
comcast --dot-- net> wrote:
>Do those of you who work with cherry every use sapwood on the show side?
>
I have built a number of cherry pieces and never have sapwood where it
shows. It is a matter of personal preference. I have been to a store
that sell "hand built Amish" furniture where heartwood and sapwood
were mixed indiscriminately. What I see is mismatch which I can't get
past and see the beauty of the wood or the craftsmanship of the
project. I thought it looked horrible. I asked the store owner about
it and he said for a 25% premium they would match the wood colors.
Some of my projects including some cherry can be seen at:
http://webpages.charter.net/ray93402/Woodwork/woodwork.html
>Have I shortchanged myself with the second sheet goods order by being first
>confused upon receiving it, then anxious, and then delighted?
>
>/rick.
>
>
>
>
"Jerry" wrote...
> Others may respond on this but do they really cut veneer out of
> sapwood? I would suspect that the difference in tone is due to light
> exposure or age or both. In time, the lighter sheets should also
> darken.
It is not just lighter it is a difference color. The cream colored veneer
will not darken to the same tone as the reddish veneers. No.... there is a
definate difference between the veneers.... one set is creamish, the other
reddish... they will never match up (unless stain is entered into the
equation).
> For cherry, I always cut off the sap wood....
>
Hmmm. This is what I wondered too. But having never worked with cherry
before (or many woods for that matter) I was unsure if mixing
sapwood/heartwood is a reasonable idea in cabinetry.
> ...which is why I hand select my
> pieces to assure I have heartwood.
Perhaps next time I will do this. But with little experience, I have not
been certain how much of cherry boards should be heartwood, and/or how much
sapwood in the boards is reasonable.
"ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> What I see is mismatch which I can't get
> past and see the beauty of the wood or the craftsmanship of the
> project. I thought it looked horrible. I asked the store owner about
> it and he said for a 25% premium they would match the wood colors.
> Some of my projects including some cherry can be seen at:
All a matter of taste. While the design and workmanship of your clock it
excellent, the busy look of the quilted wood is distracting to me. I'd
rather see a plain cherry with a touch of sapwood. Maybe it looks better in
person that the photo?
"Leuf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Try leaving a piece of the lighter one out in full sun for a few days
> to see if it will darken up.
>
Nah, not needed. A coat of Kilz and both will look the same when painted.
Do what the furniture companies do:
Dye it, stain it, spray it.
Look at the current issue of Wood Magazine.
They have a short story on just your problem and
how to fix it.
The vast majority of "cherry furniture" you see in stores
may or may not contain actual cherry wood. The finishing
folks make the piece look the way it is described.
I have seen many fine pieces of poplar look very much like
cherry with the appropriate finishing schedule.
Now is the time to read up on spray finishing and terms
like "toners" and "dyes" that make shellac work magic with
your two tone cherry.
Now is "not" the time for Minwax or anything similar.
RickS wrote:
> I am only two years into woodworking as a hobby. A while ago I received my
> first order of cherry, from my local hardwood supplier. I received 3 sheets
> of cherry veneer ply, and about 100bf rough cherry, most 4/4 and some 8/4.
> This is for a rather elaborate kitchen pantry and associated side cabinets.
>
> I recently realized I had ordered insufficient ply, so I ordered two more
> sheets (which pinches at $90/sheet). These second two sheets are from the
> same manufacturer, but the veneer is very much different.
>
> The first sheets are distinctly red toned, with little black flicks in
> places. Really attractive wood. The second set of two sheets are cream
> colored -- still of obvious of high quality -- and they too, are beatiful
> sheets of wood. I am assuming the former is heartwood veneer and the latter
> sapwood veneer.
>
> Instead of taking the two sapwood sheets back, I am inclined to make the
> shelves from these, and the casework from the reddish heartwood sheets. The
> serendipitous result is going to look quite nice, with a wonderful contrast
> produced for the cabinet interiors.
>
> I will be using the rough-cut cherry lumber for face-frames, doors, edge
> treatments, moldings, etc.
>
> Now, my questions:
>
> Having not yet milled any of the rough cherry, it appears most boards
> contain both heartwood and sapwood. Should I be attempting to mill sapwood
> surfaces for facing/banding the light colored sheet goods, and milling to
> heartwood surfaces for all the exterior show parts? Are there resources on
> the net that describe the process of doing this well (i.e. with little
> waste)?
>
> Do those of you who work with cherry every use sapwood on the show side?
>
> Have I shortchanged myself with the second sheet goods order by being first
> confused upon receiving it, then anxious, and then delighted?
>
> /rick.
>
>
>
>
>
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:46:20 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> What I see is mismatch which I can't get
>> past and see the beauty of the wood or the craftsmanship of the
>> project. I thought it looked horrible. I asked the store owner about
>> it and he said for a 25% premium they would match the wood colors.
>> Some of my projects including some cherry can be seen at:
>
>All a matter of taste. While the design and workmanship of your clock it
>excellent, the busy look of the quilted wood is distracting to me. I'd
>rather see a plain cherry with a touch of sapwood. Maybe it looks better in
>person that the photo?
>
You are somewhat correct. Flash photography tends to accentuate
certain characteristics. Under normal lighting the grain is somewhat
more muted. As a matter of taste I think it goods good. You can
build you clocks with cherry sapwood paint them orange if that is your
taste.
"ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> You can
> build you clocks with cherry sapwood paint them orange if that is your
> taste.
That would look dumb. Yellow and blue has much more class.