I can't say I'd even know how to cut regular glass, but I've got some mirror
glass to cut to about 11x20". Its from a $11 cheesy wood framed ~16x24" new
mirror. I measured it at .081" = ~2mm thickness. So there are inches on the
sides to cut off. I've bearing-rabetted out 3/8" around the inside of a
1x2" frame I made. Theres about .2" left to the front face I'll paint. I'm
gonna back it with 1/4" Birch plywood, and brad it in w/ 1/4" 1/4 round
(.500"Diameter).
1) should I worry about the birch ply right up against the mirror paint? Its
not pictures.
2) Should I score the back side where the mirror paint is. Or grind it, or
get through to the glass somehow, whether straight or not. Theres ~3/8" to
the max edge on each side, so I could make a mess of the finish, I think,
without affecting the view from the outside.
3)I am assuming no matter what I am going to do I need to score on the glass
side
4) When scoring it says to score with one line only. How hard do I need to
push? I just bought a $5 "6 wheels" Richard cutter. Then push down (away)
from the cut line on the corner of a table?
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In article <[email protected]> bent, [email protected]
writes:
>do you suggest any cracking or prep before a final snap?
I was a glass cutter in a stained glass studio in an earlier life. I cut
glass all day long for a couple of years. This is what I would do:
- Dip the glass cutter's wheel in kerosene.
- Holding the glass cutter almost vertical, use firm pressure and make
one clean line the length of the cut against a straight edge.
- Immediately, with thumbs on top and pointer fingers curled underneath,
one hand on each side of the cut line, snap like a cracker. From --
to /\ . It's important that you do this within a few seconds after
the cut is made. As I was taught, part of the weakening of the glass is
due to heat from crushing the surface with the wheel. The longer you
wait, the harder it is to get a clean break. If you have a good clean
cut, the break will just run down the line. Tink... and you're done.
Also, practice doesn't hurt. Go to Lowe's, HD, wherever and ask for some
scrap glass. A couple three cuts and you'll have it.
Good luck - Robert
Unless it's tempered, from the top (glass) side, make_one_ firm score
along your desired cut with the aid of a straightedge. Then take the
ball end of the cutter and, starting at one end, gently tap along the
bottom (mirrored) side of the score. Take your time. You might still
break your glass where you don't wish it to break, and them's the
breaks. Tom
bent wrote:
> I can't say I'd even know how to cut regular glass, but I've got some mirror
> glass to cut to about 11x20". Its from a $11 cheesy wood framed ~16x24" new
> mirror. I measured it at .081" = ~2mm thickness. So there are inches on the
> sides to cut off. I've bearing-rabetted out 3/8" around the inside of a
> 1x2" frame I made. Theres about .2" left to the front face I'll paint. I'm
> gonna back it with 1/4" Birch plywood, and brad it in w/ 1/4" 1/4 round
> (.500"Diameter).
>
> 1) should I worry about the birch ply right up against the mirror paint? Its
> not pictures.
You need to seal the cut edge of the mirror so moisture (read humidity)
doesn't get under the silvering. Otherwise you'll get the black
tarnishing working its way in from the edge.
The back of the rabbet will be reflected by the mirror, so its typical
that the rabbet is painted black so the reflection won't be
distracting.
> 2) Should I score the back side where the mirror paint is. Or grind it, or
> get through to the glass somehow, whether straight or not. Theres ~3/8" to
> the max edge on each side, so I could make a mess of the finish, I think,
> without affecting the view from the outside.
I don't understand what you're asking. Why would you need to score the
back side of the mirror? You always cut from the face. No need to
touch the back.
> 3)I am assuming no matter what I am going to do I need to score on the glass
> side
Right.
> 4) When scoring it says to score with one line only. How hard do I need to
> push? I just bought a $5 "6 wheels" Richard cutter. Then push down (away)
> from the cut line on the corner of a table?
You're just scratching the surface of the glass, so you don't need a
lot of pressure. You can practice on a glass bottle to see how hard
you have to press. The cutter should be lubricated with kerosene and
it will sing if you're using constant pressure. Keep the movement
uniform and unbroken.
Work on top of a towel so you won't scratch the mirror, and snap it on
the edge of the table like you mentioned.
R
Then take the
> ball end of the cutter and, starting at one end, gently tap along the
> bottom (mirrored) side of the score.
do I need a soft (say towel) to pressurize under while doing this?
do I need also to flip it back over to snap it off in one piece.
not sure i'm clear on this method, or part of a method
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>
> You need to seal the cut edge of the mirror so moisture (read humidity)
> doesn't get under the silvering. Otherwise you'll get the black
> tarnishing working its way in from the edge.
How can I do this. Can I use a paint? or a tape? Polyurethane? Sounds
important!
> The back of the rabbet will be reflected by the mirror, so its typical
> that the rabbet is painted black so the reflection won't be
> distracting.
I will have a lot of white going on around . Does this work, or should I
do black too?
The cutter should be lubricated with kerosene and
> it will sing if you're using constant pressure.
I don't have any kerosene. Is lube a must? What about anything else I have,
say, methyl hydrate, lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, gas (w/ fill-up), TSP
solution, brush cleaner, other?
> Work on top of a towel so you won't scratch the mirror, and snap it on
> the edge of the table like you mentioned.
do you suggest any cracking or prep before a final snap?
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> ball end of the cutter and, starting at one end, gently tap along the
> bottom (mirrored) side of the score.
<do I need a soft (say towel) to pressurize under while doing this?>
No, let the cutoff hang over the bench, and tap from below. Oh, and
wear safety glasses.
<do I need also to flip it back over to snap it off in one piece.> No.
A good break will come off as one piece.
<not sure i'm clear on this method, or part of a method.> Then
practice on some scrap, first. Be patient whilst tapping, increasing
power carefully. Tom
how can I be tapping along from one end and a good break will be one piece.
Isn't a tap gonna produce a break, which will be either one piece, or a
bunch of pieces. Break little pieces, but try to break one piece? Don't
break?
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You may want to consider going to a stain glass shop and see if they
will cut it. Otherwise with only 3/8"waste you might want to consider
grozzing pliers. Used in stain glass. they are about 1: wide and there
is a slight angle in the bill. You would put the center of the pliers on
your score line and squeeze firmly. This should give you a running crack
along the score.
All this said and done the pliers about $15-16 . you spent $5 for a
basic glass cutter. Mine are $25-30 . So now you have $20 or so into it.
Maybe the glass shop will cut for less, Then again if they break it they
will cut you a new one from their inventory. As for sealing the edge
from the moisture and turning black, just put a good coat of fingernail
polish on the edge and on the mirroring back . Aint nothing cheap about
this but wanting to do this without the right tools is kind of harbor
freight style. Good luck
can I just align the score op top of a 1x2" edge and PUSH down, to snap on
one piece?
push down firmly against the score until it gives?
I don't want to learn breaking glass. I am looking for my best bet, or I'd
take my Richard back. But I took apart the frame so...
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Pop wrote:
> Interesting thread since I've been trying to get around to doing
> the same thing but on a thicker mirror (float glass). But even
> after reading the whole thread, there seems to be two conflicting
> paths to accomplish it, both of which I already knew, and neither
> of which has ever really worked for me. In fact, some of the
> posts sound like guesses based on having cut some plexiglas once,
> but ... I'm too ignorant on the subject to know if they're right.
> And, if "tapping" isn't right, why does nearly every glass cutter
> sold come with a ball shaped on the opposite end?
> Guess I'll go Google.
The ball end glass cutters are very common, but there are lots of
choices and many of which don't have the ball. The ball is an attempt
to make the tool one size fits all - a multipurpose tool. For cutting
small curves, the ball end can be useful for tapping to propagate the
crack. That shouldn't be done on mirrors as it could damage the
silvering.
If you've ever been in a commercial glass shop, you'll see that the
guys have a carpet covered table and snap the glass over the edge.
It's way faster and less likely to have the glass break due to an
imperfection that you'd never see. The microscopic imperfections are
the weak points in the glass. Tempering is just a way to let the
molten glass fill in those surface imperfections - that's where all of
the increased strength comes from. It's not special glass.
Whether the glass is thick or thin, the same uniform score is
sufficient. If you've ever seen the 1" thick glass used in some church
windows, that's how it's cut. They score it, pick it up with a hand on
either side of the score line and drop/push it down over a hard plastic
edge. It breaks just about as easily as the standard float glass you
have in your window.
To propagate the break along a score line glass artists (like myself -
I do stained and leaded glass work) use running pliers, which are
basically pliers with a curved mouth or ridge in the middle of one jaw.
Gentle pressure is all that is necessary.
Another technique is to put a wood dowel under the score line and snap
the glass over that. There are many techniques for glass, and everyone
will swear that their system is the best. Basically it boils down to
trying different techniques until you find something that works for you
and gives you good, repeatable results. That's when most people stop
trying different techniques because they've found the "perfect"
technique.
R
sections 3,4,5 of <http://www.warner-criv.com/techtips/tools.aspx>
I used a lighter fluid (heptane) & WD-40 combo for lube..
I used a level on "spongy fabric" as a straightedge after measuring offset
of spinning wheel center to edge. The ~1" thickness of the level guided
the 1-3/8" high flat edge of the cutter along perfectly perpendicular. I
would recommend this orientation. Held it at 90 degrees and pulled toward
me. The balled handle had a flat. Started 1/8" in from edge, and finished
pulling through, which did leave a 1.5mm chip, which will be hidden.
Looked with magnifying glass and couldn't see the score line after one score
(I thought of lifing 15 lbs. off ground)
Used a plywood sandwich on TS edge, and gloved hand in center of waste about
3" away (at end) and it snapped apart perfectly.
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bent wrote:
> sections 3,4,5 of <http://www.warner-criv.com/techtips/tools.aspx>
>
> I used a lighter fluid (heptane) & WD-40 combo for lube..
>
> I used a level on "spongy fabric" as a straightedge after measuring offset
> of spinning wheel center to edge. The ~1" thickness of the level guided
> the 1-3/8" high flat edge of the cutter along perfectly perpendicular. I
> would recommend this orientation. Held it at 90 degrees and pulled toward
> me. The balled handle had a flat. Started 1/8" in from edge, and finished
> pulling through, which did leave a 1.5mm chip, which will be hidden.
You should always start and finish the cut right to the edge. Just let
off on the pressure a little so you don't blast a crater. The cutting
wheel is round so the cutting force isn't affected by an angle (math
freaks, yes, thanks, I know about vectors) - no need to hold the cutter
at an unnatural angle like 90 degrees. Lean it back some so it's
comfortable then push or pull as is your preference. There was no
need to make the plywood sandwich, it would have broken cleanly without
it on the edge of the table.
Glad to see you had success on your first outing. Keep going.
R
On 6 Mar 2006 09:41:34 -0800, "RicodJour" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>glass artists (like myself -
>I do stained and leaded glass work) use running pliers, which are
>basically pliers with a curved mouth or ridge in the middle of one jaw.
> Gentle pressure is all that is necessary.
I'm surprised you didn't mention, the glass has to be clean and you
lub the cutter with mineral oil. ;-)
I like the pistol grip cutters with the resivoir in the handle.
I am not an artist yet but I do stained glass too.
I cut on heavy cardboard, over a very flat counter top.
bent wrote:
> I can't say I'd even know how to cut regular glass, but I've got some mirror
> glass to cut to about 11x20". Its from a $11 cheesy wood framed ~16x24" new
> mirror. I measured it at .081" = ~2mm thickness. So there are inches on the
> sides to cut off. I've bearing-rabetted out 3/8" around the inside of a
> 1x2" frame I made. Theres about .2" left to the front face I'll paint. I'm
> gonna back it with 1/4" Birch plywood, and brad it in w/ 1/4" 1/4 round
> (.500"Diameter).
>
> 1) should I worry about the birch ply right up against the mirror paint? Its
> not pictures.
>
> 2) Should I score the back side where the mirror paint is. Or grind it, or
> get through to the glass somehow, whether straight or not. Theres ~3/8" to
> the max edge on each side, so I could make a mess of the finish, I think,
> without affecting the view from the outside.
>
> 3)I am assuming no matter what I am going to do I need to score on the glass
> side
>
> 4) When scoring it says to score with one line only. How hard do I need to
> push? I just bought a $5 "6 wheels" Richard cutter. Then push down (away)
> from the cut line on the corner of a table?
>
>
>
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Depends on how old the glass is as to how easy it
is to cut. I don't like the cutting wheel types
and have never had good luck with them. A diamond
pointed scorer works much better.
You need to practice on a piece of throw away
glass. The trick is to use medium pressure on the
wheel and to make one continuous swipe using a
good straight edge. When you break it, the score
should be up, put the glass on a table with a
piece on 1/2" plywood under the large part and the
the score just past the free edge. Then use
another piece of plywood and push down on the
piece you are cutting off; you want it to just
bend a little, and then it will snap. Tapping on
the glass, especially using that little ball end
of the cutter is likely to end of with a mess with
a long straight cut.
bent wrote:
> how can I be tapping along from one end and a good break will be one piece.
> Isn't a tap gonna produce a break, which will be either one piece, or a
> bunch of pieces. Break little pieces, but try to break one piece? Don't
> break?
>
>
>
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That's why you shouldn't tap. You want to snap
the throw away part in one piece.
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 12:22:34 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
> "no(SPAM)vasys" <"no(SPAM)vasys"@adelphia.net> quickly quoth:
>
>>For cutting curves "tapping" with the ball end is appropriate. For a
>>straight cut it is easier to snap the glass over a straight edge.
>
>
> You've obviously never used running pliers, Yack. The curved tips work
> really great.
> http://www.glassworld.com.au/membersarea/Projects/Page2.htm
> Cheap source:
> <http://cgi.ebay.com/Stained-Glass-Supplies-8-Running-Pliers-has-Extra-Jaws_W0QQitemZ7396356555QQcategoryZ4770QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>
>
I have the running pliers (I occasionally do foiled and leaded glass
work). For a straight cut, of say 2" or greater, I still find using
just my fingers or snapping the glass over a straight edge easier.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
(Remove -SPAM- to send email)
Interesting thread since I've been trying to get around to doing
the same thing but on a thicker mirror (float glass). But even
after reading the whole thread, there seems to be two conflicting
paths to accomplish it, both of which I already knew, and neither
of which has ever really worked for me. In fact, some of the
posts sound like guesses based on having cut some plexiglas once,
but ... I'm too ignorant on the subject to know if they're right.
And, if "tapping" isn't right, why does nearly every glass cutter
sold come with a ball shaped on the opposite end?
Guess I'll go Google.
Pop
"bent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I can't say I'd even know how to cut regular glass, but I've got
>some mirror glass to cut to about 11x20". Its from a $11 cheesy
>wood framed ~16x24" new mirror. I measured it at .081" = ~2mm
>thickness. So there are inches on the sides to cut off. I've
>bearing-rabetted out 3/8" around the inside of a 1x2" frame I
>made. Theres about .2" left to the front face I'll paint. I'm
>gonna back it with 1/4" Birch plywood, and brad it in w/ 1/4"
>1/4 round (.500"Diameter).
>
> 1) should I worry about the birch ply right up against the
> mirror paint? Its not pictures.
>
> 2) Should I score the back side where the mirror paint is. Or
> grind it, or get through to the glass somehow, whether straight
> or not. Theres ~3/8" to the max edge on each side, so I could
> make a mess of the finish, I think, without affecting the view
> from the outside.
>
> 3)I am assuming no matter what I am going to do I need to score
> on the glass side
>
> 4) When scoring it says to score with one line only. How hard
> do I need to push? I just bought a $5 "6 wheels" Richard
> cutter. Then push down (away) from the cut line on the corner
> of a table?
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
> Usenet News==----
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> 120,000+ Newsgroups
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> Encryption =----
On 5-Mar-2006, "bent" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 4) When scoring it says to score with one line only. How hard do I need to
> push? I just bought a $5 "6 wheels" Richard cutter. Then push down (away)
> from the cut line on the corner of a table?
Don't put the glass on a towel - if you push hard and the towel is soft enough,
you'll break the glass. You might get away with it on thick glass, but the stuff
you have is very thin.
Use a _flat_ surface and make sure it's clean - no junk under the glass.
When you score the glass, you create a stress concentration along the
score. When you tap the glass with the little hammer, small cracks
emanate from the score in various directions - mostly through the glass.
When enough of these cracks propagate and connect, the glass breaks
clean along the score line. When you look at the edge that results,
you'll see the uneven surface that forms from all these little cracks. You
can sand the edge with fine, hard sandpaper to smooth the edges.
Wear gloves and safety glasses.
Mike
Thin mirrors are float glass too. Most all glass produced these days, other
than decorative, is float glass.
"Pop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:UXXOf.757$FN1.324@trndny04...
> Interesting thread since I've been trying to get around to doing
> the same thing but on a thicker mirror (float glass).
"bent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I can't say I'd even know how to cut regular glass, but I've got some
>mirror glass to cut to about 11x20". Its from a $11 cheesy wood framed
>~16x24" new mirror. I measured it at .081" = ~2mm thickness. So there are
>inches on the sides to cut off. I've bearing-rabetted out 3/8" around the
>inside of a 1x2" frame I made. Theres about .2" left to the front face
>I'll paint. I'm gonna back it with 1/4" Birch plywood, and brad it in w/
>1/4" 1/4 round (.500"Diameter).
>
> 1) should I worry about the birch ply right up against the mirror paint?
> Its not pictures.
>
> 2) Should I score the back side where the mirror paint is. Or grind it,
> or get through to the glass somehow, whether straight or not. Theres
> ~3/8" to the max edge on each side, so I could make a mess of the finish,
> I think, without affecting the view from the outside.
>
> 3)I am assuming no matter what I am going to do I need to score on the
> glass side
>
> 4) When scoring it says to score with one line only. How hard do I need
> to push? I just bought a $5 "6 wheels" Richard cutter. Then push down
> (away) from the cut line on the corner of a table?
I'm no expert on cutting glass, so I take it to my local glass supplier and
they cut it for me. They usually don't charge me cause they know
I'll be back to buy eventually.
Cheers,
cc
On 5 Mar 2006 19:45:28 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, "tom"
<[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>Unless it's tempered, from the top (glass) side, make_one_ firm score
>along your desired cut with the aid of a straightedge. Then take the
>ball end of the cutter and, starting at one end, gently tap along the
>bottom (mirrored) side of the score. Take your time. You might still
>break your glass where you don't wish it to break, and them's the
>breaks. Tom
Nearly every glasscutting book I've read has said that the ball end of
the cutter will shatter more glass than it helps score, so don't use
it. My experience prior to reading them (33% loss) mirrored theirs.
(bad pun intentional.) I don't cut much glass, but I haven't lost a
piece of glass since buying a set of running pliers.
I suggest setting the mirror on kraft paper a super clean piece of MDF
or other flat table. Score it on the front, move that score line to
let the scrap overhang the table, using either glass running pliers or
a quick snap to break off the glass scrap. Some silver protectants are
plasticized so if you also score the silver on the back, it has less
of a tendency to pull off any silver at the cut edges when you break
the scrap off.
Also remember: NEVER run the carbide cutter over a previously scored
section of glass. It instantly dulls the edge and makes a rough cut
which can shatter and run away from you. DAMHIKT. ;)
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Pop wrote:
<snip>
>
> And, if "tapping" isn't right, why does nearly every glass cutter
> sold come with a ball shaped on the opposite end?
> Guess I'll go Google.
>
> Pop
For cutting curves "tapping" with the ball end is appropriate. For a
straight cut it is easier to snap the glass over a straight edge.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
(Remove -SPAM- to send email)
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 12:22:34 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
"no(SPAM)vasys" <"no(SPAM)vasys"@adelphia.net> quickly quoth:
>Pop wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>
>> And, if "tapping" isn't right, why does nearly every glass cutter
>> sold come with a ball shaped on the opposite end?
>> Guess I'll go Google.
(Why do men have nipples, Pop? Why do ballots come with Reps and Dems
listed on them? They're also quite inappropriate and useless, but
inertia keeps things going. <sigh> Besides, it's expensive to change
the dies.)
>For cutting curves "tapping" with the ball end is appropriate. For a
>straight cut it is easier to snap the glass over a straight edge.
You've obviously never used running pliers, Yack. The curved tips work
really great.
http://www.glassworld.com.au/membersarea/Projects/Page2.htm
Cheap source:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/Stained-Glass-Supplies-8-Running-Pliers-has-Extra-Jaws_W0QQitemZ7396356555QQcategoryZ4770QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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the longer God makes us live. * Graphic Design - Humorous T-shirts
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:27:04 -0500, "bent" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I can't say I'd even know how to cut regular glass, but I've got some mirror
>glass to cut to about 11x20". Its from a $11 cheesy wood framed ~16x24" new
>mirror.
Maybe I'm wimpy, but I've wound up with so much broken glass, I take
mine to the local glass experts. They don't mind even if I bring my
own, and the cost is minimal ...and expertly done. They do the glass.
I do the wood. Sometimes I buy the mirror/glass from them for
projects. I definitely let them cut the ovals.
bent wrote:
> can I just align the score op top of a 1x2" edge and PUSH down, to snap on
> one piece?
Yes!
>
> push down firmly against the score until it gives?
Yes. Use a glove.
> I don't want to learn breaking glass. I am looking for my best bet, or I'd
> take my Richard back. But I took apart the frame so...
>
>
>
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