Who is Jesus?
Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for
doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to
consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are
not drawn out of context:
1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
God.
2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the
power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said,
"Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but
what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can
of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is
just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father
which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful,
He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his
own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus
is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call
upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one
whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto
my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John
20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My
God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God,
then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken
me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's
prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any
time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John
4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in
spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or
heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is
clear proof that Jesus was not God.
5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
his own.
Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth
of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater
than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17,
Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but
one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions
between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from
God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus
gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his
equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine
be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will
of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did
not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do
so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself,
and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the
will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One
and therefore Jesus is not God.
Conclusion
The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
basis have you come to believe otherwise?
My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity
is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as
presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.
If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.
What is the word of God about Jesus:
A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they
are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to
Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is.
(Qur'an 19:34,35).
And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You
have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent
of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall
down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son;
and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in
the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant
(Qur'an 19:88-93).
Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
3:59).
People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in
the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an
4:171)
B. Regarding Jesus being God:
And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of
everything. (Quran 5:116,117)
C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of
Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither
crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who
are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they
have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they
did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him;
God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book
but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the
Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an
4:156-159)
mac davis said:
>On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 21:28:54 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>mac davis said:
>>
>>>Subject: Conversations with Jesus
>>
>>You know you're all going to hell, right? ;~)
>>
>>
>>Greg G.
>
>No problem, Greg.. I spent 2 years there in the 60's and dealt with it ok.. lol
Oh, so you've apparently been to Georgia, right?
Greg G.
Sun, Dec 9, 2007, 6:29am (EST-3) [email protected]
(aassime=A0abdellatif) doth burble:
Who is Jesus? <snip>
He's the one Allah is referring to when he reviews your file and
says, "Jesus, what a dumb ass".
JOAT
Even Popeye didn't eat his spinach until he had to.
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> My gardener..
>
And your only hope for salvation. Better treat your gardener well.
On Dec 9, 12:45 pm, [email protected] (J T) wrote:
> Sun, Dec 9, 2007, 6:29am (EST-3) [email protected]
> (aassime abdellatif) doth burble:
> Who is Jesus? <snip>
>
> He's the one Allah is referring to when he reviews your file and
> says, "Jesus, what a dumb ass".
>
> JOAT
> Even Popeye didn't eat his spinach until he had to.
Naw he was that long haired old time hippy freak that used to walk
around in a tablecloth and sandles.......eating a fat free diet of
bread and grapes, evidently he must have been on a fat free diet and
watching his lipids................
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:18:27 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>mac davis said:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 21:28:54 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>mac davis said:
>>>
>>>>Subject: Conversations with Jesus
>>>
>>>You know you're all going to hell, right? ;~)
>>>
>>>
>>>Greg G.
>>
>>No problem, Greg.. I spent 2 years there in the 60's and dealt with it ok.. lol
>
>Oh, so you've apparently been to Georgia, right?
>
>
>Greg G.
Worse... I spent 3 months at Fork Puke, lousy-ana
I met a drill sergeant there that was going back for a 3rd tour in Nam... we
asked him WHY??
He said "I'd rather have a sister in a whore house than a brother at Fort
Polk"..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
Plano Bill wrote:
> Does that have anything to do with a Parrot and a Burglar? :>)
>
> "Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> A Rottweiler.
>>
Yes.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
mac davis said:
>Subject: Conversations with Jesus
You know you're all going to hell, right? ;~)
Greg G.
But look at the great company we'll have ;¬Þ...
all of these ornery woodworkers!
Kate
Does that have anything to do with a Parrot and a Burglar? :>)
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:qDf7j.15281$dX.14810@trnddc08...
>
> "aassime abdellatif" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>>Who is Jesus?
>>>
>
> A Rottweiler.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> [email protected]
On Dec 9, 4:37 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
> > I don't know.
>
> ... a Capricorn, reportedly.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 12/09/07
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
If Jesus was Jewish, why'd he have a Mexican name?
On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 21:28:54 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>You know you're all going to hell, right? ;~)
Since there's no such place, nope.
On Dec 9, 4:32=EF=BF=BDpm, "Scott Cox" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > My gardener..
>
> And your only hope for salvation. Better treat your gardener well.
Jesus was a carpenter and was nailed to a wooden cross. That is his
total relevance to THIS ng!
FoggyTown
Cut to shape - pound to fit.
FoggyTown wrote:
> On Dec 9, 4:32�pm, "Scott Cox" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>
>>> My gardener..
>>
>> And your only hope for salvation. Better treat your gardener well.
>
> Jesus was a carpenter and was nailed to a wooden cross. That is his
> total relevance to THIS ng!
But I do wonder if the Mexicans imprison people who name their Teddy
bears "Jesus".
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"aassime abdellatif" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:4e45b6bc-61f2-46fc-8ec8-4975d324ac66@w40g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> Who is Jesus?
>
> Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
> second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
> used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for
> doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to
> consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are
> not drawn out of context:
>
In the beginning the Gods He created teh Heavens and the Earth.
Let US make man in OUR image.
The Lord your God is one in UNITY. Unity demands more than one, a minimum
of 2. The New England Patriots were one this season.
> 1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
> When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
> limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
> knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
> son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
> His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
> admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
> proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
> God.
>
As a human he gave up all rights as God, but is now returned to his throne
and now has that information. He also *could* have called 10,000 angels to
protect him, but he didn't. He needed to die so we could live.
> 2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
> While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the
> power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said,
> "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but
> what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can
> of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is
> just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father
> which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful,
> He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his
> own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus
> is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
>
You never heard of submission? He had the power to do anythign He wanted,
but submitted to obeying the Father. That is the meaning of Gods is one,
one in UNITY, not singleness. How could He have done the miracles in His
own power and then expect us to do the saem when we are not of the same
complete nature as God? We have the same power available to us as Jesus
did, the Holy Spirit, the promise of the Father.
> 3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
> God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call
> upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one
> whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto
> my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John
> 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My
> God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God,
> then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken
> me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's
> prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
> Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
> pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
> 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
> admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
> to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
>
No, Jesus was praying to His Father. Again, Let US make man in our image.
> 4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
> While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
> this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
> any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any
> time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John
> 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in
> spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or
> heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is
> clear proof that Jesus was not God.
>
Before Abraham was I AM! John 8:58
> 5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
> acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
> his own.
> Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
> equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth
> of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater
> than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17,
> Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but
> one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions
> between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from
> God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus
> gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his
> equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine
> be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will
> of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did
> not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do
> so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself,
> and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the
> will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One
> and therefore Jesus is not God.
>
So he came from where God is. Did Mohumad come from God's throne? Only God
can originate from God's throne.
> Conclusion
> The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
> about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
> not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
> basis have you come to believe otherwise?
>
Jesus clamed to be I AM, that is I WAS, I AM, I WILL BE!
> My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity
> is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as
> presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.
>
Prov 30:4
4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind
in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established
all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if
thou canst tell?
KJV
Jesus BECAME a man. I was always man. You were always man. Jesus BECAME a
man, yet was before Abraham, by His own words that you reject. Why do you
reject the words of one you call a great prophet? Jesus also said that He
and the Father were one, wer the same essence and nature.
John 10:30
30 I and my Father one. are
1473 2532 9999 3588 3962 1520 2070
Egoó kaí ho Pateér hén esmen
(Interlinear Transliterated Bible. Copyright (c) 1994 by Biblesoft)
NT:1520
heis (hice); (including the neuter [etc.] hen); a primary numeral; one:
KJV - a (-n, -ny, certain), abundantly, man, one (another), only, other,
some. See also NT:1527, NT:3367, NT:3391, NT:3762.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded
Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International
Bible Translators, Inc.)
> If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
> Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.
>
I get headaches trying to read that satanic writing!
>
> What is the word of God about Jesus:
>
> A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
> That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they
> are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to
> Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is.
> (Qur'an 19:34,35).
>
> And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You
> have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent
> of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall
> down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son;
> and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in
> the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant
> (Qur'an 19:88-93).
>
> Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
> created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
> 3:59).
>
> People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
> not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
> the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
> spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
> 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
> on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in
> the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an
> 4:171)
>
> B. Regarding Jesus being God:
> And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
> and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
> is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
> knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
> within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
> You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
> witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
> me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of
> everything. (Quran 5:116,117)
>
> C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
> And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
> calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of
> Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither
> crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who
> are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they
> have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they
> did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him;
> God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book
> but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the
> Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an
> 4:156-159)
>
>
On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 16:35:18 -0800 (PST), MB <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Dec 9, 4:37 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
>> > I don't know.
>>
>> ... a Capricorn, reportedly.
>>
>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 12/09/07
>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
>If Jesus was Jewish, why'd he have a Mexican name?
Subject: Conversations with Jesus
Many times when I am troubled or confused, I find comfort sitting in my
backyard, having a drink and a quiet conversation with Jesus.
This happened to me again after a particularly difficult day.
I said Jesus, why do I work so hard?
And I heard the reply: Men find many ways to demonstrate the love they have for
their family. You work hard to have a peaceful, beautiful place for your friends
and family to gather.
I said: I thought that money was the root of all evil?
And the reply was: No, the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Money is a
tool; it can be used for good or bad.
I was starting to feel better, but I still had that one burning question, so I
asked it.
Jesus, I said, what is the meaning of life? Why am I here?
He replied: That is a question many men ask.
The answer is in your heart and is different for everyone.
I would love to chat with you some more, senior, but for now, I have to finish
your lawn.
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"aassime abdellatif" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>Who is Jesus?
>>
A Rottweiler.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 21:28:54 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>mac davis said:
>
>>Subject: Conversations with Jesus
>
>You know you're all going to hell, right? ;~)
>
>
>Greg G.
No problem, Greg.. I spent 2 years there in the 60's and dealt with it ok.. lol
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
Sun, Dec 9, 2007, 9:28pm [email protected] (Greg=A0G.) doth query:
You know you're all going to hell, right?
That mean's we're getting sluts, and no virgins, right?
JOAT
Even Popeye didn't eat his spinach until he had to.
J T wrote:
> Sun, Dec 9, 2007, 9:28pm [email protected] (Greg G.) doth query:
> You know you're all going to hell, right?
>
> That mean's we're getting sluts, and no virgins, right?
>
It means you are going to get to alternate between the following sets of
72 virgins:
<http://stuckon-stupid.com/images/72virginss.jpg>
and these
<http://www.cafepress.com/buy/nun/-/pv_design_details/pg_3/id_19292670/opt_/fpt_/c_666/>
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:51:00 -0500, [email protected] (J T) wrote:
>Sun, Dec 9, 2007, 9:28pm [email protected] (Greg G.) doth query:
>You know you're all going to hell, right?
>
> That mean's we're getting sluts, and no virgins, right?
>
Good joke out there about Osama finding out it was 11 Virginians and getting the
shit knocked out of him..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
J T said:
>Sun, Dec 9, 2007, 9:28pm [email protected] (Greg G.) doth query:
>
>You know you're all going to hell, right?
>
> That mean's we're getting sluts, and no virgins, right?
In that case, I've apparently beat you all there.
Greg G.
On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 09:38:57 -0600, "Mike Dobony" <[email protected]>
wrote:
My gardener..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing