Another Grizzly delivery

You're actually supposed to call the local hub to setup delivery in advance
with most freight carriers. At that time you can give detailed driving
directions.

Brian.


"Ollie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am a satisfied Grizzly customer, but there has been troubles with the
> delivery companies.
>
> On this week I got my second delivery from Grizzly. The driver did call
> before noon and asked instructions for a route to our address. The main
> problem was that he didn't know where he was. Not a street, not a city,
and
> not a county. After some discussion he could locate a highschool on the
map
> near to our address. After 5 hours he found his way. This could be the
> reason that the delivery company cannot give a more accurate delivery time
> than 9 - 5.
>
> On the first delivery, the driver called and described where he was. This
> time the problem was that he didn't have a map to find our city or street.
> The main problem in that delivery was that he dropped my table saw. =(
>
> Is there anything that we as customers could do to avoid the delivery
> problems?
>
> Cheers, Ollie
>
>

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 21:13:15 -0400, "Norman D. Crow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:18:25 -0400, "Norman D. Crow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >The cost to equip a fleet is considerable, now put in GPS display, then
>add
>> >the "airtime" charges!
>>
>>
>> Airtime charges? <G> Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
>
>Yup, I believe I do. Company I drove for went satcom & GPS tracking so we
>could check in w/dispatch when loaded/unloaded, where to go for next load,
>etc. Every message went against their "allowable minutes", just like a cell
>phone,

Who said anything about tracking? You're confusing several different
services. All I'm talking about is a basic, moving map display,
preloaded with a map database. The simple little devices sold by
Garmin and Magellan are examples. Like these:
<http://www.garmin.com/products/quest/>
<http://www.garmin.com/products/gps5/>

Ignore the MSRP, like most electronics, these things are heavily
discounted in catalogs and online. The second unit is selling for
under $300 on the street. The first will probably for about $425 in
discount houses. These need nothing else to be used and do not
require a subscription or monthly fees of any kind.

<http://www.garmin.com/aboutGPS/>

>You say $600? Multiply that by 40-50 tractors. I can maybe see an
>independent buying one for himself, but not that many company drivers.

Agreed. I don't expect a company driver to buy his own. The company
could realize efficiency savings by installing them. Many companies
already have.

How much does a truck that's lost for two hours a week cost?

>FedEx, who knows, we're talking apples & oranges, because they have soooo
>much to do in one day they HAVE to get it done rapidly, and it's possible
>FedEx supplied them.

FedEx _Ground_ is a franchise. My area is served by independently
owned units, or units owned my small businesses.

> Ollie said his driver "didn't know where he was". Most
>freight co. drivers doing the local work(ABF, CF{are they still in
>business?}, etc.) have drivers who know the territory and have maps.

I agree. However, with a handheld GPS, the driver would have known
where HE was. The unit essentially places you on the map. <G>

Unfortunately, many companies that sell tracking software, Onstar, and
the super-overpriced nav systems installed by auto manufacturers, have
lead many to believe that GPS navigation has to be more way expensive
than it is.

Barry

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> whether Selective Availability is on or off, whether the receiver supports

"Clinton" turned off SA in 2000.

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:50:03 -0400, "Ollie"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>On this week I got my second delivery from Grizzly. The driver did call
>before noon and asked instructions for a route to our address. The main
>problem was that he didn't know where he was. Not a street, not a city, and
>not a county.

Now that so many trucks are GPS tracked, I've always wondered why more
trucking companies don't bother with a GPS display on the dash. Many
independents use them, as getting lost with a big rig can be both
expensive and stressful.

Barry

"Ollie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Is there anything that we as customers could do to avoid the delivery
> problems?

Pick it up yourself. That, of course presents its own set of potential
problems, but all carriers employ an idiot or two. Most drivers are smart,
courteous, knowledgeable of their delivery area, can read a map, use a
phone, can thread an 80 foot rig backwards down a twisting narrow alley at
night, in the rain. Like every profession, someone graduated at the bottom
of their class and can do none of the above. .

I discourage customers from picking up their own material. They come
unequipped for the task. We ship an item that is packed in bundles, 48.5" x
48.5" x 107". My guys can load a trailer with 26 of them in about 30
minutes. The customer will show up to get three of them and spend two hours
getting part of one to his boat trailer, or motorcycle trailer. I can
imagine that Grizzly customers sometimes show up to get their cabinet saw
driving a Pinto hatchback.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

I always have large items delivered to work. I work at a Chevy dealership so
the trucking companies know where we are. After work I have some of the guys
in the shop help me load it in the pickup.

--
Mike S.
[email protected]
http://members.tripod.com/n0yii/woodworking.htm
"Ollie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am a satisfied Grizzly customer, but there has been troubles with the
> delivery companies.
>
> On this week I got my second delivery from Grizzly. The driver did call
> before noon and asked instructions for a route to our address. The main
> problem was that he didn't know where he was. Not a street, not a city,
> and
> not a county. After some discussion he could locate a highschool on the
> map
> near to our address. After 5 hours he found his way. This could be the
> reason that the delivery company cannot give a more accurate delivery time
> than 9 - 5.
>
> On the first delivery, the driver called and described where he was. This
> time the problem was that he didn't have a map to find our city or street.
> The main problem in that delivery was that he dropped my table saw. =(
>
> Is there anything that we as customers could do to avoid the delivery
> problems?
>
> Cheers, Ollie
>
>

B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

<snippage>
> But then again, I had a
> high level IT person in the same company tell me I couldn't install an
> application in my PDA, because the corporation didn't have a service
> agreement with the hardware manufacturer. <G>

So I guess you're one of those 'pain in the ass power users', too, huh? ;-)

Our IT department kept 'reassigning' all the techs we co-opted. It got to
be hazardous to one's employment to be seen eating lunch with one of my
team members, and stopped being funny.

Damn rules often get in the way of actually doing business, oft times. Can
the ISO manual actually say 'Employee is to use reasonable initiative,
within guidelines.'?

/rant off

Patriarch

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:59:30 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Henry E
Schaffer) wrote:


> If your PDA app was to do something important to the company's
>operations - then assuring continuity via a service agreement (or a
>backup uniy, ...) isn't far fetched.

I know, I was an IT person at one time. <G>

That wasn't the case. We're talking a simple Pocket Word macro.

Barry

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:16:19 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Almost enough to make one want to go back into IT. However one then
>remembers that nobody who actually knows how to do anything ever gets
>promoted to a position of authority.


Absofrigginloutely!

Barry

"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Now that so many trucks are GPS tracked, I've always wondered why more
> trucking companies don't bother with a GPS display on the dash. Many
> independents use them, as getting lost with a big rig can be both
> expensive and stressful.

One word answer - - "Money"

The cost to equip a fleet is considerable, now put in GPS display, then add
the "airtime" charges!

--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.



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"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:18:25 -0400, "Norman D. Crow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >The cost to equip a fleet is considerable, now put in GPS display, then
add
> >the "airtime" charges!
>
>
> Airtime charges? <G> Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Yup, I believe I do. Company I drove for went satcom & GPS tracking so we
could check in w/dispatch when loaded/unloaded, where to go for next load,
etc. Every message went against their "allowable minutes", just like a cell
phone, so we were told not to send any more messages than necessary, and
make them as short as possible. They had the ability to GPS track, but every
time they used it, cost extra. We could also request directions, phone #'s,
etc. if they weren't on the bill of lading, or if dispatch screwed up and
didn't give them to us when we left the terminal.

You say $600? Multiply that by 40-50 tractors. I can maybe see an
independent buying one for himself, but not that many company drivers.
FedEx, who knows, we're talking apples & oranges, because they have soooo
much to do in one day they HAVE to get it done rapidly, and it's possible
FedEx supplied them. Ollie said his driver "didn't know where he was". Most
freight co. drivers doing the local work(ABF, CF{are they still in
business?}, etc.) have drivers who know the territory and have maps. I think
Ollie got stuck with a "newbie", or a delivery service from waaaaay out of
town.


--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.



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"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Norman D. Crow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
>
> >
> > You say $600? Multiply that by 40-50 tractors. I can maybe see an
> > independent buying one for himself, but not that many company drivers.
>
> The smart ones have them. They pay for themselves in short order. I've
> seen a lot of drivers get "lost" for hours. Their dispatcher tells us the
> driver is on his way from a location and estimates the time of arrival.
The
> ones with sattellite are very reliable. Had one a couple of weeks ago on a
> Friday before a long weekend. . Driver was supposed to show up at our
place
> about 10:30 AM. Dispatcher could not find him when we called at noon.
> Finally, he showed up at 4:50 PM. Driver went back to Nova Scotia empty.
> Pull that twice a year and the system is paid for.

What you say is true. It is also true that dispatchers LIE! Standard joke
among drivers is the dispatcher looks @ a map & says "you can make that in 2
hrs. easy, it's only an inch!"(1in. = 150mi.). They aren't the ones sitting
in that cab putting up with construction zones, accidents, blizzards,
thunderstorms, and rush hour traffic.

Now that I'm finished with that, there are also drivers who consistently and
conveniently get "lost". Before satcom, dispatch was hunting for one of
ours, called his delivery to see if he was there yet, they said "sure, he
left here 2 hr. ago. In fact, his truck is sitting across the street". They
kept him on, because he was dependable about getting the delivery there on
time, and was useful for other short run stuff. We had other drivers who
were just too late too much, and they get weeded out after a while.

Sometimes you have to come home empty. Company tried to broker loads for me
a couple times from out in nowhere on a Friday, and by 2:00PM would say
"Come on home, we need you back here to go out Sunday, it's not worth
leaving you out over the weekend on the hope we can get a load Monday".
However, if the driver is so inept he can't read a map, find a telephone,
whatever, then it's HIS fault he goes home empty. May also depend a lot on
whether he gets paid for deadhead miles or not, how interested he is in
getting deliveries on time & picking up backhauls.

>
>
> > FedEx, who knows, we're talking apples & oranges, because they have
soooo
> > much to do in one day they HAVE to get it done rapidly, and it's
possible
> > FedEx supplied them.
>
> Most of these guys are using some sort of communications with their etch a
> sketch boards.

True. They also get to know their local delivery area pretty quick.


--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.



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Robert & Barry,
I stand corrected! I was "retired" by Uncle Sam in '97(Type II diabetes
on insulin). I'm speaking from knowledge of what our fleet was using @ that
time. I understand what you are saying about GPS, I just haven't kept up
with the technology. Maybe I was fortunate in the carrier I worked for. The
drivers were quite close, and any time a "new" drop came up, the first man
in would pass good directions back to dispatch, so anyone going there after
that could get good directions from dispatch. We also were not a huge fleet,
and most of our business was dedicated to about 5 or 6 shippers in the
area(including a famous grape juice co. and a well known fish stick co.),
and our backhauls were generally return raw or packaging materials for them.
Glass, metal, or plastic containers for one, and raw frozen "bulk"(66lb.
boxes) of Pollock for the other.

Our shippers & our dispatch were also excellent about calling in advance for
directions. We also generally had only 1 or 2 drops, so can't really relate
to a local delivery for a line hauler, who may have 10 - 20 stops in his
day.

--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.


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Norman D. Crow wrote:

> Robert & Barry,
> I stand corrected! I was "retired" by Uncle Sam in '97(Type II
> diabetes
> on insulin). I'm speaking from knowledge of what our fleet was using @
> that time. I understand what you are saying about GPS, I just haven't kept
> up with the technology.

It's not really a matter of "keeping up with the technology". The
technology of GPS was developed by the US Navy in the late '70s and has
been essentially unchanged since that time. It has always been a
receive-only system with no associated charges. What has changed is the
degree of miniaturization of the receivers, with a resulting decrease in
cost.

GPS basically provides two services--accurate position, with the degree of
accuracy depending on whether one has a MIL-spec or civilian receiver,
whether Selective Availability is on or off, whether the receiver supports
WAAS, and whether one is in line of sight of a WAAS satellite--and accurate
time. There is no charge of any kind for either of these services.

There are companies that provide a supplemental service called "Differential
GPS" that provides increased accuracy over a limited geographical area.
There is usually a charge for Differential GPS service, but it also is
usually not needed--10 meters is quite sufficient for most purposes.

There are other services that various companies provide that depend on GPS.
These services are not part of GPS nor does GPS depend on them. Tracking
of trucks via GPS is one such service that depends on cell phone or
satellite phone (different satellites from GPS--"Iridium" is the best
known) to relay the tracking information--that's where the "air time"
charges come from.

Simply using the GPS to drive a moving-map display involves no charges
beyond the purchase price of the unit itself and possibly a subscription
service to keep the maps current.

> Maybe I was fortunate in the carrier I worked for.
> The drivers were quite close, and any time a "new" drop came up, the first
> man in would pass good directions back to dispatch, so anyone going there
> after that could get good directions from dispatch. We also were not a
> huge fleet, and most of our business was dedicated to about 5 or 6
> shippers in the area(including a famous grape juice co. and a well known
> fish stick co.), and our backhauls were generally return raw or packaging
> materials for them. Glass, metal, or plastic containers for one, and raw
> frozen "bulk"(66lb. boxes) of Pollock for the other.
>
> Our shippers & our dispatch were also excellent about calling in advance
> for directions. We also generally had only 1 or 2 drops, so can't really
> relate to a local delivery for a line hauler, who may have 10 - 20 stops
> in his day.
>

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

B a r r y wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:57:15 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>It's not really a matter of "keeping up with the technology". The
>>technology of GPS was developed by the US Navy in the late '70s and has
>>been essentially unchanged since that time. It has always been a
>>receive-only system with no associated charges.
>
> There an awful lot of vendors out there that sell vehicle tracking
> services as "GPS Service". In addition to services like OnStar and
> the various satellite radio, Internet, and TV providers, I can
> understand the confusion. All of them require a monthly fee. All of
> them also seem to love leading the purchaser to believe they are not
> using the same public domain GPS constellation as everyone else.
>
> My company uses tracking software to monitor vehicle movement. Even
> the "GPS administrators" that work in this group are unfamiliar with
> consumer grade moving map receivers, so they have no idea how
> inexpensive basic address location can be. But then again, I had a
> high level IT person in the same company tell me I couldn't install an
> application in my PDA, because the corporation didn't have a service
> agreement with the hardware manufacturer. <G>

Almost enough to make one want to go back into IT. However one then
remembers that nobody who actually knows how to do anything ever gets
promoted to a position of authority.

Barry

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article <[email protected]>,
B a r r y <nospam*removethis*@snet.net> wrote:
>... But then again, I had a
>high level IT person in the same company tell me I couldn't install an
>application in my PDA, because the corporation didn't have a service
>agreement with the hardware manufacturer. <G>

While that sounds like an out-of-touch IT person, there is another
possible reason. Many companies want to have all of there necessary
systems only run on "supported" hardware - so if something goes wrong
they have an immediate way to get it fixed.

If your PDA app was to do something important to the company's
operations - then assuring continuity via a service agreement (or a
backup uniy, ...) isn't far fetched.

E.g., I have a chainsaw - and when it needs a repair, I stop cutting
wood. I've noticed that "tree service" crews normally have *many*
chainsaws on the truck - often more than the number of people on the
truck. That's their backup - and they don't want to have to stop work
to get a chainsaw repaired.
--
--henry schaffer
hes _AT_ ncsu _DOT_ edu

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:57:15 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>It's not really a matter of "keeping up with the technology". The
>technology of GPS was developed by the US Navy in the late '70s and has
>been essentially unchanged since that time. It has always been a
>receive-only system with no associated charges.

There an awful lot of vendors out there that sell vehicle tracking
services as "GPS Service". In addition to services like OnStar and
the various satellite radio, Internet, and TV providers, I can
understand the confusion. All of them require a monthly fee. All of
them also seem to love leading the purchaser to believe they are not
using the same public domain GPS constellation as everyone else.

My company uses tracking software to monitor vehicle movement. Even
the "GPS administrators" that work in this group are unfamiliar with
consumer grade moving map receivers, so they have no idea how
inexpensive basic address location can be. But then again, I had a
high level IT person in the same company tell me I couldn't install an
application in my PDA, because the corporation didn't have a service
agreement with the hardware manufacturer. <G>

Barry

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:18:25 -0400, "Norman D. Crow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The cost to equip a fleet is considerable, now put in GPS display, then add
>the "airtime" charges!


Airtime charges? <G> Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

I'm talking about a small, dash mounted unit similar to those used by
boaters, real estate agents, etc... every day. The maps are in the
unit, the signal is provided by tax dollars. My auto routing, color
screen unit was under $600, including maps. Many independent truckers
find that something like this will pay for itself in under a year.

Heck, even my local FedEx ground driver has one.

Barry

In article <[email protected]>,
Norman D. Crow <[email protected]> wrote:
>"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:18:25 -0400, "Norman D. Crow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >The cost to equip a fleet is considerable, now put in GPS display, then
>add
>> >the "airtime" charges!
>>
>>
>> Airtime charges? <G> Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
>
>Yup, I believe I do.

Unfortunately, your _understanding_ of what you think you know is lacking.

> Company I drove for went satcom & GPS tracking so we
>could check in w/dispatch when loaded/unloaded, where to go for next load,
>etc. Every message went against their "allowable minutes", just like a cell
>phone, so we were told not to send any more messages than necessary, and
>make them as short as possible. They had the ability to GPS track, but every
>time they used it, cost extra. We could also request directions, phone #'s,
>etc. if they weren't on the bill of lading, or if dispatch screwed up and
>didn't give them to us when we left the terminal.


There is *no* "airtime" associated with GPS, _itself_. However, all GPS
does is tell the _receiver_ 'where the receiver is'. If the 'home office'
wants to know where the vehicle is, *that* requires either 'polling' the
vehicle, to have it report it's location, or regular transmissions from the
vehicle to the home office. *THOSE* transmissions, and -only- those, using
either conventional cell-phone technology, or some form of satcom, _do_ incur
'airtime', and possible per minute or per/message expense.

A _self-contained_ system that simply tells the _driver_ "where he's at",
without home-office communication capabilities, has *zero* air-time cost.

>You say $600?

That's a price for a _fancy_ unit. basic hand-held ones are significantly
less than half that.

> Multiply that by 40-50 tractors.

Lets consider 50 rigs. postulate that having automated location and
routing information saves a driver an hour a week. That's an extra 2500
hours of 'productive' time per year, for the fleet. Or, about the equivalent
_one_additional_truck_ in the fleet. 50 GPS receivers @ a 'high' price
of $600 ea, is only $30,000. Just the _driver_ for that additional truck
costs the company at least 50% more than that. Not to mention the capital
cost of the truck itself. And, the second year, the GPS units don't cost
_anything_ (they're already paid for :), but without 'em, you'd still be
paying that extra driver.

For long-haul OTR, you can add GPS and _complete_ street-level maps oft
the entire U.S. to a laptop computer for about $250. The laptop is often
already in the truck, for en-route records keeping, 'log', etc.

That $250 system lets you (a) plug in your original starting point, (b)
any intermediate stops, and (c) your final destination -- all _before_
you set off. Given about 30 seconds, it will find 'optimum' routing to
those locations, and even estimate the total travel times. The _big_
payoff comes because you _never_ have to so much as _look_ at the screen
again *or*consult*a*map* for the entire trip. It does SPOKEN advance
alerts of all points where you change from one highway/street to another,
lets you know if it is a right/left turn, or just a 'take the left branch'
at a wye, etc.

Oh yeah, if you ever _miss_ a turn, it *automatically* updates the path
_from_where_you_are_NOW_ and starts providing directions to get you 'back
on the established route'.

The system is _not_ perfect. It isn't much help inside large complexes
where all the buildings address off the street that the complex faces,
even when they're 5-6 rows of structures away from said street. And it
can't do much when there _isn't_ a street address to reference -- e.g.,
trying to get to the 'crew shack' at a large railroad switchyard -- which
may be _three_miles_ inside the yard, with no streets to reference. (Note:
practically the -only- way to get to such places is to ride with somebody
who 'already knows' how to get there. verbal/written directions and/or
'maps' simply don't cut it. Direct first-hand experience speaking :)

Aside from such 'pathological case' situations, however, a GPS setup
_does_ make the new driver virtually as good/'productive' as the old hand.
And it comes a _lot_ cheaper than the experience. <grin>

> I can maybe see an
>independent buying one for himself, but not that many company drivers.
>FedEx, who knows, we're talking apples & oranges, because they have soooo
>much to do in one day they HAVE to get it done rapidly, and it's possible
>FedEx supplied them. Ollie said his driver "didn't know where he was". Most
>freight co. drivers doing the local work(ABF, CF{are they still in
>business?}, etc.) have drivers who know the territory and have maps. I think
>Ollie got stuck with a "newbie", or a delivery service from waaaaay out of
>town.

The point of GPS is that it makes that 'newbie', *or* the out-of-town
driver *AS*PRODUCTIVE* as the '20-year local' with an intimate knowledge
of the area.

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:05:10 GMT, patriarch
<<patriarch>[email protected]> wrote:

>B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
><snippage>
>> But then again, I had a
>> high level IT person in the same company tell me I couldn't install an
>> application in my PDA, because the corporation didn't have a service
>> agreement with the hardware manufacturer. <G>
>
>So I guess you're one of those 'pain in the ass power users', too, huh? ;-)

No, a member of a development team trying to help people to better do
their job.

All I wanted to do was allow users to update Word docs (actually,
filling in blank forms w/ checkboxes) on a PDA, and have them update a
database on sync. The folks are currently filling in a paper copy of
the checklist, then retyping the data into a web page back at the
office. I just wanted to update the web page automatically,
eliminating 50% of the task. No dice. <G>

Barry

"Ollie" <[email protected]> writes:
> Is there anything that we as customers could do to avoid the delivery
> problems?

I usually pick up my stuff at their shipping depot. That avoids most
of the opportunities for problems.

"Norman D. Crow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>

>
> You say $600? Multiply that by 40-50 tractors. I can maybe see an
> independent buying one for himself, but not that many company drivers.

The smart ones have them. They pay for themselves in short order. I've
seen a lot of drivers get "lost" for hours. Their dispatcher tells us the
driver is on his way from a location and estimates the time of arrival. The
ones with sattellite are very reliable. Had one a couple of weeks ago on a
Friday before a long weekend. . Driver was supposed to show up at our place
about 10:30 AM. Dispatcher could not find him when we called at noon.
Finally, he showed up at 4:50 PM. Driver went back to Nova Scotia empty.
Pull that twice a year and the system is paid for.


> FedEx, who knows, we're talking apples & oranges, because they have soooo
> much to do in one day they HAVE to get it done rapidly, and it's possible
> FedEx supplied them.

Most of these guys are using some sort of communications with their etch a
sketch boards.
Ed